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(fuck the red bull argument also its not the same thing)
Please explain to me how it is in fact, not the exact same thing.
From wikipedia:
Caffeine: white crystalline xanthine alkaloid that is a psychoactive stimulant. In humans, caffeine acts as a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant, temporarily warding off drowsiness and restoring alertness.
Adderall: ...is a brand-name psychostimulant medication. Adderall is widely reported to increase alertness, increase libido, increase concentration and overall cognitive performance, and, in general, improve mood, while decreasing user fatigue.
Just because caffeine isn't quite as good at what it does really makes no difference. Let me guess, you're also one of those people who looks down at drug users and then blows 100 dollars getting wasted at a shitty sports bar every weekend?
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Its a drug and it dont kill ur body but it KILLS Ur MIND over Time.U will be an ZOMBIE like all humans who take this shit about a time.This makes u feel like a ZOMBIE man, it steals ur EMOTIONS and thats not goood.
Maybe u are 4-8 years better in sc2 with the pills, but after some years ur brain getting damaged and ur emotions 2.U dont act like a Normal human if u take theese pills, they change ur personality after some time.
RL>SC2 so dont kill ur RL 2 be good in a computer game.
Sleep enough Eat healthy be friendly 2 the other people and play SC2 with ur HEART ur MIND and ur SOUL and u never will need anything 2 get better.U just get better from time 2 time and then u done all by urself without manipulating ur mind. DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U!!!!DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U!!!!DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U! ^^sry 4 spam and bad english!
User was warned for this post
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On February 19 2011 05:40 LisKelicious wrote:
Its a drug and it dont kill ur body but it KILLS Ur MIND over Time.U will be an ZOMBIE like all humans who take this shit about a time.This makes u feel like a ZOMBIE man, it steals ur EMOTIONS and thats not goood.
Maybe u are 4-8 years better in sc2 with the pills, but after some years ur brain getting damaged and ur emotions 2.U dont act like a Normal human if u take theese pills, they change ur personality after some time.
RL>SC2 so dont kill ur RL 2 be good in a computer game.
Sleep enough Eat healthy be friendly 2 the other people and play SC2 with ur HEART ur MIND and ur SOUL and u never will need anything 2 get better.U just get better from time 2 time and then u done all by urself without manipulating ur mind. DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U!!!!DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U!!!!DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U! ^^sry 4 spam and bad english!
Umm.... Just so you know, this kind of "u" and "2" is not the kind of post team liquid likes... may want to try and put a little more effort in your posts if you want to avoid a ban
On topic: Sadly, the argument of whether or not a prescription is obtainable is pretty much a moot point. There are always doctors/PAs/NPs who will prescribe something to someone persistent enough. I'm in PA school right now and something that almost every single one of our pharmacist guest lecturers has belabored the point of "don't become a drug pusher." Check the news at any point and you'll see stories about health care providers that lose their licenses because they enabled pain medication abusers and other such drug seeking behavior.
As has been brought up several times in this thread; where there's a will, there's a way. If someone is determined enough to obtain the desired prescription, they can change providers multiple times until they find one who will acquiesce to their requests.
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On February 19 2011 08:11 Stereotype wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 05:40 LisKelicious wrote:
Its a drug and it dont kill ur body but it KILLS Ur MIND over Time.U will be an ZOMBIE like all humans who take this shit about a time.This makes u feel like a ZOMBIE man, it steals ur EMOTIONS and thats not goood.
Maybe u are 4-8 years better in sc2 with the pills, but after some years ur brain getting damaged and ur emotions 2.U dont act like a Normal human if u take theese pills, they change ur personality after some time.
RL>SC2 so dont kill ur RL 2 be good in a computer game.
Sleep enough Eat healthy be friendly 2 the other people and play SC2 with ur HEART ur MIND and ur SOUL and u never will need anything 2 get better.U just get better from time 2 time and then u done all by urself without manipulating ur mind. DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U!!!!DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U!!!!DONT TAKE DRUGS!!!!!!! DRUGS KILL U! ^^sry 4 spam and bad english! Umm.... Just so you know, this kind of "u" and "2" is not the kind of post team liquid likes... may want to try and put a little more effort in your posts if you want to avoid a ban On topic: Sadly, the argument of whether or not a prescription is obtainable is pretty much a moot point. There are always doctors/PAs/NPs who will prescribe something to someone persistent enough. I'm in PA school right now and something that almost every single one of our pharmacist guest lecturers has belabored the point of "don't become a drug pusher." Check the news at any point and you'll see stories about health care providers that lose their licenses because they enabled pain medication abusers and other such drug seeking behavior. As has been brought up several times in this thread; where there's a will, there's a way. If someone is determined enough to obtain the desired prescription, they can change providers multiple times until they find one who will acquiesce to their requests.
The point is not weather or not you can find the drug its weather its justified using it for competition in a Starcraft 2 capacity. get on topic.
I think everyone agrees that its not good for starcraft 2 OR any e-sports too have enhancers be the deciding factor in a win for respect and REAL money
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On February 19 2011 03:47 Ksyper wrote:
If any of you have known people who abused amphetamine to stay awake while drinking, you know that it makes you lose appetite and you can't go to sleep from it, some people have told me that while under the influence of amphetamine they could think faster, the phrase one guy used was "it just clicked and I did everything right".
So I guess this drug Modafinil is like that only with minor side effects (ones that don't make you go insane hopefully).
When I read the thread I was considering trying it just to see how it could affect my game, but when I read it leads to loss of appetite I knew exactly what it was, so for me using drugs like Modafinil to play better is bad.
If it didn't have such negative effects on health I would probably use it and would support the use of it.
But seeing as how I have a bad appetite I can't afford to use something like that, I'll just die of starvation.
I can't talk for the broad amount of users that have used Modafinil, but I, personally, haven't experienced ANY loss of appetite at all... I'm eating exactly the same amount I did before...
Don't think of it as an amphetamine, cause it's not... It's also very easy to fall asleep if you want to. It's more like it takes the NEED to go to bed RIGHT NOW away from you... Like you don't yawn that often, if at all... And you don't get that feeling of: I need to go to bed now or I'll literally fall over and sleep on the floor.
But like I said: If it's your bed-time and you WANT to go to sleep, regardless of if you need to or not, you will be able to sleep just as well as if you weren't on Modafinil.
I even feel a bit more awake and rested once I wake up in the morning... Kinda strange to explain.
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I've played some starcraft 2 on adderall, and while I was a bit more focused I don't think I was significantly faster, and I doubt my play improved all that much just due to the extra focus(I focus alot anyway when I'm gaming). Also, if you regularly take of drugs like adderall(not so sure about Modafinil), they tend to lose their more extreme effects after awhile, unless you constantly progessively up the dose. Slight advantage? Maybe. Anything like an advantage steroids is to baseball players? Nah I don't think so
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Fuck the people who would even consider using ability enhancing drugs like these. Just like any other sport, these things take away the actual playing of the game and winners will be determined through the lab, not through skill. I would rather die than cheat in such a way, and I would not doubt to ban or FUCKING HURT anyone that does things like this.
You might think my opinions are extreme, but I have experience with people cheating
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Guys u get crazy from modafinil over time believe me ....
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Speaking from personal experience, I'm prescribed amphetamines for ADD and I notice a definite improvement in my SC2 play when I'm on them as opposed to off.
I think that this effect would give me an advantage in a tournament, and because of that if I was in a tournament I would certainly take it. Because I would be taking it, I would have no problem with other people taking it as well.
Besides, what do we even consider a performance enhancing drug in the context of gaming? I know quite a few souls who swear that marijuana increases their performance...should smoking pot disqualify you from an esports event?
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Drugs like Ritalin are a huge problem in esports, just go to MLG and see how many of the players have some, probably 25-50% depending on the tournament.
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On February 19 2011 05:13 DamnCats wrote:Please explain to me how it is in fact, not the exact same thing. From wikipedia: Caffeine: white crystalline xanthine alkaloid that is a psychoactive stimulant. In humans, caffeine acts as a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant, temporarily warding off drowsiness and restoring alertness. Adderall: ...is a brand-name psychostimulant medication. Adderall is widely reported to increase alertness, increase libido, increase concentration and overall cognitive performance, and, in general, improve mood, while decreasing user fatigue. Just because caffeine isn't quite as good at what it does really makes no difference. Let me guess, you're also one of those people who looks down at drug users and then blows 100 dollars getting wasted at a shitty sports bar every weekend?
Nice wikipedia quote, it makes you sound smart. But you don't have to get technical to understand.. caffeine is a socially acceptable drug while adderall is less acceptable, and heroin totally frowned upon. That's just the way the world is. It's like how cigarettes are more harmful than smoking weed but people look down on potsmokers, while cigarette smokers are considered more 'normal'.
Why is red bull allowed but not performance enhancing drugs?
Because if it really helps, then everyone would do it to get an edge. Drinking the occasional energy drink isn't as bad as popping adderall every match. Also what would happen to the image of the sport? Everyone has to pop a pill in order to compete.
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I personally think nothing like this should be allowed, and the reason is... You have to make a fine line between what is and what isn't.
Let me just give an example of 3 things. This isn't true but for the sake of an example. There are 3 main things that allow you to play StarCraft better. Those things are: Coffee, those medications you speak of (let's assume they have minor side effects over prolonged use like increased chance of kidney failure), and Cocaine which is illegal and very dangerous.
Now you are the association, what do you allow? If you allow Coffee, why wouldn't you be allowed to use medications? Well then all players to stay competitive have to use medications? And now somebody wants an edge so they'll use cocaine. It's a very complex thing to work out and I think it's in the best interest of people and players for those things to be banned.
Luckily I haven't heard of such cases in Starcraft BW yet about such things so therefore I think it isn't common and hasn't been introduced into esports yet. If such things are happening however, governments should take action.
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On February 19 2011 20:24 LisKelicious wrote:
Guys u get crazy from modafinil over time believe me ....
Any evidence, even anecdotal at that? Or are you just making statements for the sake of them? Got a story?
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On February 20 2011 05:35 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 05:13 DamnCats wrote:(fuck the red bull argument also its not the same thing) Please explain to me how it is in fact, not the exact same thing. From wikipedia: Caffeine: white crystalline xanthine alkaloid that is a psychoactive stimulant. In humans, caffeine acts as a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant, temporarily warding off drowsiness and restoring alertness. Adderall: ...is a brand-name psychostimulant medication. Adderall is widely reported to increase alertness, increase libido, increase concentration and overall cognitive performance, and, in general, improve mood, while decreasing user fatigue. Just because caffeine isn't quite as good at what it does really makes no difference. Let me guess, you're also one of those people who looks down at drug users and then blows 100 dollars getting wasted at a shitty sports bar every weekend? Nice wikipedia quote, it makes you sound smart. But you don't have to get technical to understand.. caffeine is a socially acceptable drug while adderall is less acceptable, and heroin totally frowned upon. That's just the way the world is. It's like how cigarettes are more harmful than smoking weed but people look down on potsmokers, while cigarette smokers are considered more 'normal'. Why is red bull allowed but not performance enhancing drugs? Because if it really helps, then everyone would do it to get an edge. Drinking the occasional energy drink isn't as bad as popping adderall every match. Also what would happen to the image of the sport? Everyone has to pop a pill in order to compete.
Most of your post is actually bullshit... Like that smoking weed is better than cigarettes... There is many studies that weed-smoke is either AS harmful or even MORE harmful than tobacco... And that's without the detrimental effects of weed added to it... I smoked weed like a fiend for over 10 years, so I'm not just talking out of my ass, either...
And who gives a flying fuck what's socially acceptable or not? Didn't you just mention weed? I feel like your mixing up all kind of shit...
Red Bull has no more caffine than a cup of coffee, over here in germany it actually has LESS....
How do you know that the pure sugar in red bull is less harmful than adderal? It's those kind of unsubstantiated, subjective, moronic statements that make me insanely mad.
In germany we have a saying: If you don't know what you're talking about, why not shut the fuck up for once? (Not trying to insult you specifically, just giving some food for thought...)
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On February 19 2011 05:13 DamnCats wrote:Please explain to me how it is in fact, not the exact same thing. From wikipedia: Caffeine: white crystalline xanthine alkaloid that is a psychoactive stimulant. In humans, caffeine acts as a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant, temporarily warding off drowsiness and restoring alertness. Adderall: ...is a brand-name psychostimulant medication. Adderall is widely reported to increase alertness, increase libido, increase concentration and overall cognitive performance, and, in general, improve mood, while decreasing user fatigue. Just because caffeine isn't quite as good at what it does really makes no difference. Let me guess, you're also one of those people who looks down at drug users and then blows 100 dollars getting wasted at a shitty sports bar every weekend?
Hmm.. your research is going to have to go a little deeper if you want to make a point about caffeine being the same as adderall. They have completely different physiological mechanisms, amphetamines are highly dangerous substances when used in incorrect people, but I'll leave it at that, I should let you do some research and find out for yourself, if you really care.
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If you give me some I'll do some trials and let you know how it works.
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On February 20 2011 08:34 mcbrite wrote:
Most of your post is actually bullshit... Like that smoking weed is better than cigarettes... There is many studies that weed-smoke is either AS harmful or even MORE harmful than tobacco... And that's without the detrimental effects of weed added to it... I smoked weed like a fiend for over 10 years, so I'm not just talking out of my ass, either...
Do you realize how dangerous cigarette smoking is? It's basically a form of poison that is only tolerated because it's so widespread and very hard to stop.
The wikipedia article quotes a number from a CDC publication for the expected number of life years lost for smokers. Take a guess before you look at the spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +
Do I think smoking weed is harmless? Probably not. But it sure as hell doesn't cost you + Show Spoiler +one sixth of your fucking life
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When people eat healthy, there is a vast improvement in their cognitive abilities. Should food be banned too, or where does one draw the line?
There are currently so many performance enhancing drugs that we have absolutely no way to test for. If we ban them, the only thing we're doing is empowering those who know which compounds can't be tested, giving them an unfair advantage over everyone else.
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[QUOTE]On February 20 2011 12:04 hypercube wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 20 2011 08:34 mcbrite wrote:
Do I think smoking weed is harmless? Probably not. But it sure as hell doesn't cost you one sixth of your fucking life[/QUOTE]
Again with the generalizations and COMPLETELY unfounded assumptions... Weed smoke is still smoke... Have you even read my post? This is starting to severely piss me off now...
How about you do some research before displaying your lack of knowledge so openly, almost proud, even?
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On February 19 2011 00:16 Twistacles wrote:
Uh.
You're asking if it's okay to take an amphetamine? Are you kidding? No.
The only drugs you need for starcraft are caffeine and marijuana.
Its marihuana in canada well if you're legal here it is. LOL I don't the letter change either but health canada seems to think theres a difference=p
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EPT
