Fun thing is that metalheads will _never_ be satisfied with any other popular music genre. Glam rock - "substanceless, shallow drivel that's only about fucking groupies" Hiphop - "substanceless, shallow drivel that's all about some black dude's Lexus."
I used to be a die-hard metalhead for about two years ago, I mostly appreciated technical death metal simply because of the sheer amount of time the musicians put into their riffs, solos, drums, bass, everything! It was just my kind of way of determing wether a band was good or not. (OT, but my favorite technical death metal bands are in the spoiler) + Show Spoiler +
During this period I had a massive bias against hiphop, in every single way possible, it was just sheer stupidity in musical form filled with nothing but rich guys bragging about how rich they were. It was only until I read about this rapper, in my favorite metal-magazine(!) called "Necro" who got me a bit interested in hiphop. After all, this guy knew who Obituary were, and his lyrics often mimicked those of death metal artists.
I gave his album "Death Rap" a shot, and was simply thwarted by his attitude, lyrics and flow. He showed me a new side to hiphop, he showed me the "underground" side of a genre I despised. And the more I thought about it, I realised that my development in metal went the same way: I detested the "popular" acts, and was simply a lot more interested in the less known acts. With my new found knowledge, I dived in to the genres underbelly, and I have never looked back. The talent these new acts display are off the wall, wether it's their flow, production, lyrics or musical talent, they constantly break new ground.
Most importantly, I learned that a musician doesn't have to be able to shred like Michael Amott, growl like Reuben Rosas or drum like George Kollias to be considered a "good" musician. If you can blast around 500bpm - great for you, but if you can't write a good song or tune, you're not a good "musician" in a sense, many rappers may not be able to fulfill the instrumental part all to good, but if you use the most of your ability and seriously try with what you've got, I'll consider you a good, honest musician. This is what I've found in hiphop - the "lack" of instrumental skill is instead compensated by pure poetry, and extreme knowledge about the music you are producing.
Tl;dr? You don't need to be able to know chromatic scales, or blast beats to be considered a good musician, if you don't know how to write a good song, you're not a great musician. Hiphop artist often compensate for their lack of instrumental knowledge by being able to create great beats, write great lyrics and produce their songs in a very skilled manner.
Now Im a huge metal fan but i can appreciate good rap music. The OP and most of the metal fans in this topic arent being fair, comparing metal masterpieces (old metallica & slayer in the op) with the latest rap bs that came up on the radio last week. To be fair most of the metal that is being put out these days is equally as bad as the rap stuff imo.
Just like metal, rap has albums that are considered defining of the genre. Those are also much, much better and essential to listen to before hating on the genre as a whole.
to me both are equally as enjoyable for different reasons, depending on my mood
Can't speak for everyone, but I love hip-hop/rap now probably because I grew up listening to it, same reason why I still like New Wave. That said, I tend to like the rap to be mixed with something else- which is why I liked the alternative metal guys like P.O.D. and Linkin Park, but I still liked some straight rap like Jurassic 5.
But I've rarely limited myself to one genre. I was never just a hip-hop fan, but also of new wave, rock (prog, hard, indie), folk, ska, trance, power metal, alternative/ nu metal etc and in the last couple years yes, even heavy metal. Perhaps I'm not a 'real' fan of any of the genre, but I'll just go with whatever sounds good to me and leave the genre wars for someone else.
[QUOTE]On December 10 2010 15:40 MahatmaSC2 wrote: the guys that play metal have far more skill than those who just use computer generated noises and talking into a microphone.[QUOTE] how can you say something like that, hip hop beat are usualy made of samples played, so the people who make the beat are producer, not compositer. theres plenty of good producer out here, most of em are old now but those are the one i like the most RZA - DJ Premier - MF DOOM - The Alchemist and when it comes to lyrics, they arent talking in a mic like u said Listen to albums such as GZA - Liquid Sword Wu Tang - Enter the 36th Chamber Ghostface - Ironman Raekwon - Only Built for Cuban Lynx... (Yes, Im a Wu Head) Non Phixion - The Futur is Now
after listening to these albums, u wont think the same about hip hop. - Dope beats, Razor Sharp Lyrics and flying emcees
On December 10 2010 15:40 MahatmaSC2 wrote: the guys that play metal have far more skill than those who just use computer generated noises and talking into a microphone.
how can you say something like that, hip hop beat are usualy made of samples played, so the people who make the beat are producer, not compositer. theres plenty of good producer out here, most of em are old now but those are the one i like the most RZA - DJ Premier - MF DOOM - The Alchemist and when it comes to lyrics, they arent talking in a mic like u said Listen to albums such as GZA - Liquid Sword Wu Tang - Enter the 36th Chamber Ghostface - Ironman Raekwon - Only Built for Cuban Lynx... (Yes, Im a Wu Head) Non Phixion - The Futur is Now
after listening to these albums, u wont think the same about hip hop. - Dope beats, Razor Sharp Lyrics and flying emcees
Hip-Hop is catchy and sounds pretty damn good, I think the variety of sounds plays into the popularity because there's "something for everybody" unless you have a stuck, narrow-minded view of hip-hop representing guns, money, and hoes. Producers can sample whatever they want, or create new melodies and rhythms with their own sounds, hip-hop can take on hundreds of different sounds.
There's the emo/backpack/nerd scene, local scene, gangster scene, old school, crunk/hyphy/tipsy/pickyourfavoriteword, "Trip-hop", political shit like Immortal Tech, and hardcore whiteboys like those boys from Philly (can't remember), and everything in between.
There really is something for everyone, but a lot of people don't realize it.
[/i] rad stuff, i love it when metalheads (or fans of other genres in general) realize how cool this shit is and get over the "mainstream hump" and see beyond the 50 cent and kanye beef.
Why are you people arguing about what kind of music is better? Preference in music is a totally individual thing. You can't be a die-hard fan of death metal (which in MY OPINION, I think is total garbage - "hey screaming into the mic is good music?") and then look down on everyone else.
But I do agree the quality of music has gone down. We don't have anyone like Queen or beatles, where songwrters produce really good music. Music has gone from an art into a money machine. We don't have songwriters who write songs because they enjoy it. All we have are music producers looking for the next bieber they can score $$$$$ with.
Saying that justin bieber and lady gaga is crap, honestly, is not just opinion, when you think relatively to the history of music industry.
On January 25 2011 04:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I don't understand why there's assumed to be a musical love dichotomy between rap/hip-hop and metal.
There are countless other types of music, some of which aren't as stereotypically disliked as either of those two genres.
I think it's just the fact that the genres are the absolute opposites to each other that causes the "hating" between the fans.
Absolute opposites? How so?
Sure you talk about perhaps vocal quality, where one has lots of screaming and yelling, while the other is more rhythmic and talky. Perhaps one is heavily focused on musical virtuosity and the other is focused on ...er... "lyric virtuosity"??
But really, both metal and rap are incredibly manly men music where men beat the crap out of other men and act all manly. I guess they both attract insecure manly men people who need to make sure that the music THEY listen to is the manliest and most macho or something. Personally I think that's where the hate comes from. Manly men.
It's not like there's any grace and delicacy in either genre. They are not really opposite of each other IMO.
i listen to all kinds of music, depending on the mood. party/drinking requires more easy listening like hiphop rap trance techno etc. but if i listen to music for the experience i go for instrumental metal. Paul Gilbert and John Petrucci gets my recommendation! at the moment i listen to Anita Baker - Mystery, even if i hate that specific music genre, its a good song. all genres got some moments if you ax me!
I would think a much bigger contrast would be from metal bands vs. artists such as Adele or Florence & The Machine.
I agree with KvltMan in that I think anybody who tries to make the best music with the talent they have is a good, honest musician. The ability to make a song makes a musician. Yes, some artists can throw together crap and probably make money off of it, but I like to believe most don't. Many people hate artists like Justin Beiber or Lady Gaga, but remember that they're singing to completely different audiences. Justin Beiber's music is marketed towards pre-teen girls and that's perfectly fine — do people that age not deserve music because they can't "appreciate" good quality music like Queen or The Beatles?
Music is still an art. Most artists write music because they enjoy it, and there's plenty of artists who write good music. You don't even have to look that hard for any genre. There's great rap, there's great metal, there's great alternative, there's great electronica, etc. Music tastes really come down to a preference; personally I can listen to about any genre except for heavy metal and deathcore.
On January 25 2011 06:00 white_horse wrote: Why are you people arguing about what kind of music is better? Preference in music is a totally individual thing. You can't be a die-hard fan of death metal (which in MY OPINION, I think is total garbage - "hey screaming into the mic is good music?") and then look down on everyone else.
But I do agree the quality of music has gone down. We don't have anyone like Queen or beatles, where songwrters produce really good music. Music has gone from an art into a money machine. We don't have songwriters who write songs because they enjoy it. All we have are music producers looking for the next bieber they can score $$$$$ with.
Saying that justin bieber and lady gaga is crap, honestly, is not just opinion, when you think relatively to the history of music industry.
Well this just isn't true. The music industry is making far less money today than it was 10 years ago and frankly the big record industry was already losing ground to indie labels and alternative distribution methods in the 90's anyway. There are plenty of good artists around today making awesome music outside the industry establishment.
Indeed the Beatles and Queen are both awesome artists but they are exceptions, the music industry of the times was so obsessed with creating big hits that something like 3/4 of the the bands they signed were financial failures because of the absurd amount of money they put into hyper aggressive marketing and huge budget videos especially in the 80s. The industry has never cared about art, they just happened to occasionally sign great artists and make a killing off of them because there were few other outlets to find music through for the average person.
Also, Lady Gaga is not crap. She is an ok songwriter and a good singer, and and unbelievably interesting, clever, subversive, and sophisticated visual artist. She is by far the most talented artist in popular music today.
I agree that lady gaga has good songs but the way she walks out into public with ridiculous costumes is just really dumb. Art style comes naturally. Do you think picasso or van gogh said "hmm I'm going to draw with X style because I know it will be very popular". No. They drew according to their natural style, which turned out to be amazing. Lady gaga is like the contemporary art of the music industry.
Some guy can draw a red box in the middle of a piece of paper and that is suddenly "a great work of art" simply because of his name brand. The same thing is happening with gaga. Everything she does visually is forced and a total wackjob, but everyone thinks its amazing simply because "she" did it.
Do you think if I walked out dressed like lady gaga suddenly everyone would crowd me with cameras saying how artistic I am? She's bullshit in the visual department and so are all the lemmings who follow that part of her.
On December 10 2010 15:40 MahatmaSC2 wrote: I love it & the guys that play metal have far more skill than those who just use computer generated noises and talking into a microphone.
Pretty bad troll OP, and this is where i stopped reading.
I'm going to come off as an elitist here but this is the general rule of thumb with people and music:
People like SIMPLE music.
Rock, metal, hip-hop, blues, techno and pop are generally very simple. ( These aren't the only simple types of music, just examples) Yeah, it's arguable as to which form of this music is least simple, but they're all pretty simple. Occasionally you'll have very talented musicians who prove to be exceptions, but again, those are exceptions.
Now don't get me wrong - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but that's the reason people LIKE a certain type of music over another. Musically, hip-hop is much simpler than metal. That's probably why it's liked more.
If you want to talk about the "skill" required to write and play a certain type of music, classical music literally steamrolls all of these types of music and I don't see how anybody can possibly argue that. And I'd say that jazz is difficult to play simply because there's so much improvisation, while still sounding musically complex. But alas - most people don't listen to classical music, especially in our age group.
Personally, I love rock and classical music. But I still like rap ( Nelly/tupac ), pop( shakira/IU/ABBA), metal ( maiden, sabbath). I think there's some really terrible sounding metal and rap/hip-hop out there which I honestly don't even qualify as music.
I think the biggest problem is everybody qualifies classical music as "boring" because all they've heard is radio classical music. There's some really gorgeous classical pieces out there that most people won't hear throughout their entire life and it's really a shame.
Examples:
And if you want to talk about skill of playing, then I say GL HF to anyone who tries to play this at speed:
On January 25 2011 06:37 white_horse wrote: I agree that lady gaga has good songs but the way she walks out into public with ridiculous costumes is just really dumb. Art style comes naturally. Do you think picasso or van gogh said "hmm I'm going to draw with X style because I know it will be very popular". No. They drew according to their natural style, which turned out to be amazing. Lady gaga is like the contemporary art of the music industry.
Some guy can draw a red box in the middle of a piece of paper and that is suddenly "a great work of art" simply because of his name brand. The same thing is happening with gaga. Everything she does visually is forced and a total wackjob, but everyone thinks its amazing simply because "she" did it.
Do you think if I walked out dressed like lady gaga suddenly everyone would crowd me with cameras saying how artistic I am? She's bullshit in the visual department and so are all the lemmings who follow that part of her.
No they wouldn't, that's the point.
Lady Gaga is a contemporary artist and she employs the visual and symbolic language of contemporary art, which incidentally she went to school to study in NYC. There is nothing random about what she does. A big part of her thing is hanging a lampshade on the obfuscating inaccessible circle jerk that the art world has turned into and the superficial, image obsessed, cynical world the pop music industry has become at the same time.
Also Van Gogh and Picasso did not just wake up one day paint brilliant masterpieces. They worked really really hard to create a visual style that said something about art and was unique. They were well aware of the theories of art of their times and both of them were conscious of how they were employing and subverting those concepts.
EPT
