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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided.
Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.
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On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
Rather than talk about privacy, I think we need a serious discussion on how fucking stupid suicide is.
Suicide shouldn't be deified or used as support for a cause like we see here. Suicide isn't something to turn people into martyrs. It should be ridiculed, laughed at, and just made to be the cowardly, selfish act that it is, so that the only people that end up doing it are the cowardly selfish people that we would be better off without.
Although I wish I could be a healthy, upstanding individual like you, I was born with a genetic defect that causes me great chronic physical pain due to spinal deformity. One day I may have to weigh the option of ending my life if I feel the progression of my condition and pain justify an end to my suffering.
If that day ever comes, I hope you actually have the balls to come to my funeral and tell everyone in attendance what a worthless piece of shit I am and how my mother and father should not be mourning me, but rather ridiculing me and spitting on my corpse.
Lets hope you are as consistent as you seem.
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On October 01 2010 06:33 Caller wrote:
I spent three years with a psychiatrist because I was being bullied. I know what it's like, believe me.
On October 01 2010 06:33 Caller wrote:
Everybody thinks their angst and depression is real bad.
Being bullied compared to the social stigma that is still attached to being gay?
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On October 01 2010 06:45 brafix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
Rather than talk about privacy, I think we need a serious discussion on how fucking stupid suicide is.
Suicide shouldn't be deified or used as support for a cause like we see here. Suicide isn't something to turn people into martyrs. It should be ridiculed, laughed at, and just made to be the cowardly, selfish act that it is, so that the only people that end up doing it are the cowardly selfish people that we would be better off without. Although I wish I could be a healthy, upstanding individual like you, I was born with a genetic defect that causes me great chronic physical pain due to spinal deformity. One day I may have to weigh the option of ending my life if I feel the progression of my condition and pain justify an end to my suffering. If that day ever comes, I hope you actually have the balls to come to my funeral and tell everyone in attendance what a worthless piece of shit I am and how my mother and father should not be mourning me, but rather ridiculing me and spitting on my corpse. Lets hope you are as consistent as you seem.
I think he meant emotional suicide is stupid.
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No, it's a violation of privacy, that is all. It's not manslaughter. They did not accidentally push him off the bridge or something. Any correlation between the video and his death is subjective assumption and cannot be substantiated. He posted earlier THAT DAY on a forum in a calm and sane manner, ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. He was not overwrought with emotion. He just used it as an escape route, choosing death over life. That is the evidence.
did you know that it is manslaughter to leave a baby in a car on a hot day if the baby is killed?
of course the guardian did not intend to suffocate the baby. he/she just didn't take the baby out from the car. its the same thing. the idea is PROXIMATE CAUSE of her not taking the baby out. for this case its the video tape. watch how this plays out.
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Ya, I really do feel as though people are missing the point, and letting homophobia (however hidden and subtle as it may be) cloud their judgement on the issue. A young man was exposed, not for being a homosexual, but while in an intimate and passionate act with a loved one (or what I can assume to be). Nevertheless, broadcasting this act is not only a violation of his privacy, but of his dignity. Then, to be teased and tormented after the fact, rather than shown the least bit of compassion, only compounds the inhumanity this guy was shown.
You are all confusing this, the key concept, with the fact that he was gay. If this had been a woman, inviting her bf over, being video-taped/broadcasted and then tormented later, there would be a tremendous uproar. But people seem to be more concerned about him being OUTED as a gay, rather then the violation of his human right to privacy and security.
Being GAY has nothing to do with this, absolutely nothing. And those of you stating that his attempts to hide his relationship were at fault are absolutely ignorant and homophobic, no matter how much you try to hide it. In that case, there is no reasoning with you, as you are doomed to remain ignorant.
That being said, I do not condone or support suicide. I am a med student, the preservation of life is of the utmost importance to me. Suicide makes no logical, biological or ethical sense. Nevertheless, I can empathize for this young man, and his terrible situation. I don't think it warranted suicide, but sympathy yes.
Don't let ignorance and hate cloud your judgement people, actually read and understand a situation if you feel the need to comment.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:43 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:36 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:25 travis wrote:I think we can agree that all parties involved behaved with incredible shortsightedness. On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. well that sure is incredibly judgemental firstly, where exactly should he go have gay sex other than his room? maybe he was really fucking horny right then and there wasn't another reasonable place to do it. secondly, it's reasonable to say that there is a big difference between just your roommate finding out, and your roommate recording and streaming your gay sex to the general public on the internet. thirdly, while it surely was, as i said - shortsighted to kill himself over this... you lack compassion for him just because he was shortsighted? you don't know how he felt about his sexuality or how his life went to make him feel this way :/ 1. The other guy's room, since he already knew that his room mate was spying on him/aware of the situation. I read the forum on which he posted. He said all this. Or a hotel. Or somewhere else. This is all assuming that he is so candid about it that he would kill himself over someone finding out. Oh wait, that's what happened. If the choices are: don't get caught, or kill yourself, which would you pick? I would pick the former, regardless of the cost. 2. Room mate + 5 of his friends on iChat + the girl the room mate was staying with. That is all. No one heard about this when it happened a week ago. Literally no one. LITERALLY. And I live 3-4 blocks away from this kid's dorm, and have hundreds of friends at Rutgers. No one knew shit. He overreacted. 3. Of course I don't know those things. What I do know is that on the balance there are 2 things: 10 or so people finding out he was gay, or his life. There are absolutely NO circumstances that I would accept that would make the two equal, especially tipping to the taking your life side. No amount of parental beating, estrangement, discomfort, whatever... Would amount to me prepare my suicide for over an hour after finding out that it is vaguely public to like 10 people that some crappy webcam recorder what looked like me making out with my lover. Fuck that. No excuse. Life is the most valuable thing we possess, over privacy and sexual orientation. God damn you keep talking about it as if it were hardly a big deal that these people found out. It was his roommate, the person he lived with, ridiculing him over something that has most likely already traumatized him to start with. And stop saying it like it's universally accepted that life is the most valuable thing ever. It's obviously not to plenty of people, such as this kid. You talk as if he decided to commit suicide on a whim, and as if it's his fault that his roommate invaded his privacy and broadcast it on the internet. Yeah, and it's illegal, so no he shouldn't have expected this to happen.
It's not as big a deal as people make it out to be, especially in this area. It's a violation of privacy. Other people would have seen this and cried. Others would have laughed it off. Others would have said "fuck you" to the room mate and asked for a room change (like this kid was trying to do, as evidenced on the forums he was posting on). Then all of the sudden, he just goes and kills himself. He shouldn't have expected for people to find out he is gay, when he is walking guys into his dorm+room and asking his room mate to leave? Please. It's not illegal to connect a to b. It's illegal to breach privacy. That's what happened. Not manslaughter for Christ's sake.
Also, what is more valuable than life? I don't want to start this argument, partly because it is not the subject at hand, and partly because I won't believe anything anyone tells me about something being more valuable than fucking LIFE. Sorry if this is pigheaded of me.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:47 viraltouch wrote:Show nested quote +No, it's a violation of privacy, that is all. It's not manslaughter. They did not accidentally push him off the bridge or something. Any correlation between the video and his death is subjective assumption and cannot be substantiated. He posted earlier THAT DAY on a forum in a calm and sane manner, ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. He was not overwrought with emotion. He just used it as an escape route, choosing death over life. That is the evidence. did you know that it is manslaughter to leave a baby in a car on a hot day if the baby is killed? of course the guardian did not intend to suffocate the baby. he/she just didn't take the baby out from the car. its the same thing. the idea is PROXIMATE CAUSE of her not taking the baby out. for this case its the video tape. watch how this plays out.
Uh that makes perfect sense. Leaving a baby on a ledge is too, should the baby fall. The baby is incapable of caring for itself, so the parents are responsible for its life. This kid was a functional college freshman. Humiliation is something that everyone experiences at least once in their lives. Like everyone else said, this would have been a room-mate change, make an expulsion at most, had the kid not killed himself. So, because he was more weak-willed than others would be in his situation, these people deserve to have their whole lives ruined? Besides the fact that it is selfish in the first place to ask your room mate to leave for you to have sex in his room (I would never do such a thing), it's only a breach of privacy to leave a webcam facing the window. If he cared about privacy so much he would have closed the window, or gone to a hotel, or covered up his homosexuality at least. Why? Because it obviously was important enough for him to kill himself. Might as well have sex on a balcony then jump off of it because someone saw you.
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Sweet irony would be Dharun Ravi going to jail and getting made into a prison bitch.
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Why would someone even think about doing such a thing I never understood, be your friend gay straight whatever what is this sick mind to let people watch it and announce over tweeter
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On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.
Oh my intention of that post wasn't to argue about whether or not the suspect should be charge as manslaughter. I was explaining why such actions drove the victim to suicide. (actually it's natural for you to go against this post because of your view.. Will continue later )
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killing yourself over something like that =/
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United States24555 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst.
Caller, I found it hard to believe you were being serious as you were going on about how ODing on pills is primarily a waste of medical resources...
To thread:
Obviously suicide is not an objectively logical decision for most people who commit it... but suicide is usually committed in a state of temporary insanity so every1 prz stop blaming them for not making a sane decision. It isn't helping.
On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/
Some people don't care if others watch a stream of them having sex without their knowledge... others care a LOT. Don't judge people by how you personally feel about the issue.
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I read about it on the news. Sad story 
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On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.
Whether they found out is irrelevant of the fact that he might of known they weren't supportive in the first place. That he was in this alone. That if his parents did find out, they might be ashamed (and don't think for a second that he might not be under this assumption, whether in reality it would be true or not).
I wasn't assuming they were non-supportive, I meant to say that you can't assume that they were, or even more specifically that you can't assume that he assumed that they were. I'm going to assume MOST parents worldwide would not love their children enough... although that's changing, please realize that Asia itself is over half the world's population, where homosexuality is still very shameful/unaccepted. I would assume it's not very accepted in Africa as well, or many other third world locations. Latin America is very Catholic and very anti-homosexual as well (I THINK, NOT POSITIVE); and the Bible talks all the time in the Old Testament about killing sinners.
And let's say the parents would rather have a gay child alive than gay child dead. But say that they would be devastated either way. Just more devastated if their son was dead. You really think it's selfish of the son to commit suicide because of it will hurt his parents only marginally more than it would be for them to find out he was homosexual, yet it would cause him even more anguish in his already desperate life? I'm just creating scenarios, as you have apparently utterly no sympathy and your words were absolute. Mine are not, and I'm not claiming this is what would happen. But when you are gay, you tend to doubt yourself much more so about who you are and your place in this world, or so seems to be the case.
To all the "friends that he hurt," what if he was isolated and had little friends? So he's really not hurting his nonexistant friends. And he's possibly not hurting his parents as said before. He should just wallow in his own misery? I'm just saying there are so many variables you're not including, and you're downplaying what happened to ridiculously miniscule proportions when it obviously had a major psychological effect on him.
My mother had a miscarriage and thus had to have an abortion. She said she had never had so many suicidal thoughts in her life ever. She didn't get out of bed for nearly a month. She saw no way out, she said she stopped feeling any love towards her husband, she stopped feeling any love towards her son, and she wanted more than anything to snap out of it. But she didn't feel loved either, nor apparently did she even want to. She hated even talking to other people. In this isolated state, where NO, you don't know if things will ever get better, I simply find it hard to not even have any empathy for those who simply can't make it because of what you would call "being weak."
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:48 Tempest186 wrote:
Ya, I really do feel as though people are missing the point, and letting homophobia (however hidden and subtle as it may be) cloud their judgement on the issue. A young man was exposed, not for being a homosexual, but while in an intimate and passionate act with a loved one (or what I can assume to be). Nevertheless, broadcasting this act is not only a violation of his privacy, but of his dignity. Then, to be teased and tormented after the fact, rather than shown the least bit of compassion, only compounds the inhumanity this guy was shown.
You are all confusing this, the key concept, with the fact that he was gay. If this had been a woman, inviting her bf over, being video-taped/broadcasted and then tormented later, there would be a tremendous uproar. But people seem to be more concerned about him being OUTED as a gay, rather then the violation of his human right to privacy and security.
Being GAY has nothing to do with this, absolutely nothing. And those of you stating that his attempts to hide his relationship were at fault are absolutely ignorant and homophobic, no matter how much you try to hide it. In that case, there is no reasoning with you, as you are doomed to remain ignorant.
That being said, I do not condone or support suicide. I am a med student, the preservation of life is of the utmost importance to me. Suicide makes no logical, biological or ethical sense. Nevertheless, I can empathize for this young man, and his terrible situation. I don't think it warranted suicide, but sympathy yes.
Don't let ignorance and hate cloud your judgement people, actually read and understand a situation if you feel the need to comment.
Okay I can't help but feel that this was directed at me, so let me point out the fact that you make as many if not more assumptions about me as I did about this situation (which are rather few, given the fact that this is BIG NEWS here and I have read multiple articles about this, talked to HIS FUCKING FRIENDS because we have mutual friends, etc.). I'm not a homophobe. I have gay friends and I don't treat them any differently, even in the slightest. Being gay has EVERYTHING to do with this, because he was afraid of it being revealed that he is GAY. Okay? If he was a little christian girl who violated her religion by sleeping before marriage, and she killed herself because it was revealed, then it has to do with CHRISTIANITY. However I agree that both of those situations would point to a different problem - an inability to cope with shame, guilt, or whatever negative emotion he felt. An inability to the point of killing oneself. And like you said, there is no reason to kill yourself. I can think of few if any, one of them being excruciating physical pain (think torture over years, and even that was not enough for many of the Jews at Auschwitz), or euthanasia.
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On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.
Can I come live with you in your bubble?
You do realize that the world doesn't work like that? There are plenty of people who won't accept others over silly things like this.
Also guess what, the people that kill themselves are also generally the people who's parents aren't supportive! How surprising.
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On October 01 2010 06:40 Piy wrote:
So I don't think we can vilify the guys that did it to quite the extent they have been.
Pretty much. This is only getting the amount of attention it is because the dude was a closet gay. I know for sure things like this have happened before (even where suicide was a result) and it didn't get this kind of attention. Moreover, nobody is even stopping to get some facts. All you read is gay sex on webcam => suicide and instantly you want to burn the roommate.
I supposed I'm jaded because of how many cases of XYZ minorities have done stupid things like this (suicide) because they led a certain lifestyle, but were unwilling to actually be known for that lifestyle. There are plenty of gay people who do damn well in the world and people who have had sex-tapes leaked against their will and still get along with their life.
In any event, both roommates were idiots in the matter and the other roommate is going to be stuck with the remorse. I doubt his actions are criminal, but the guilt is probably a more severe punishment, anyway.
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Obviously the roommate was pretty fucked up to do this. Pretty ridiculous. The saddest part is there seems to have been some self-hatred going on in the kid for him to have taken his own life as a result; I feel like someone comfortable with himself would have handled the situation better.
But seriously, it's just weird that the roommate would want to do that.
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