|
No...just no...
There is a violation of human dignity here, something you have yet to acknowledge. Whether that occurs in a homo- or hetero-sexual context is irrelevant. If my sexual habits were broadcast over the internet, I would feel de-valued and violated, as MOST (notice i said most) would. Whether I was throwing it to some chick or taking it from a guy is irrelevant.
It is this violation of human dignity that is the tragedy in this case. The homosexual angle has only served to publicize and complicate the matter further. I am glad that you do not consider yourself a homophobe and I hope it to be true...but I think you are greatly simplifying a complex situation, and missing the true point.
|
No offense to any1 on this thread, but all i see is the media posting something that will get attention because of the following hot topics, Homosexuality, Breach Of Privacy, and Suicide.
OP might feel a great sympathy and post it through TL general to see it, and it was very shocking news of course, but i don't think speculation will bring anything good to this argument of if he should have suicided or not. Although i do feel it was wrong for what his roommate did, i feel sorry for all the victim and his family and friend for the loss, RIP and hopefully our societies will have less discrimination in the future so less of these cases happen.
|
On October 01 2010 06:48 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 01 2010 06:36 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:25 travis wrote:I think we can agree that all parties involved behaved with incredible shortsightedness. On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. well that sure is incredibly judgemental firstly, where exactly should he go have gay sex other than his room? maybe he was really fucking horny right then and there wasn't another reasonable place to do it. secondly, it's reasonable to say that there is a big difference between just your roommate finding out, and your roommate recording and streaming your gay sex to the general public on the internet. thirdly, while it surely was, as i said - shortsighted to kill himself over this... you lack compassion for him just because he was shortsighted? you don't know how he felt about his sexuality or how his life went to make him feel this way :/ 1. The other guy's room, since he already knew that his room mate was spying on him/aware of the situation. I read the forum on which he posted. He said all this. Or a hotel. Or somewhere else. This is all assuming that he is so candid about it that he would kill himself over someone finding out. Oh wait, that's what happened. If the choices are: don't get caught, or kill yourself, which would you pick? I would pick the former, regardless of the cost. 2. Room mate + 5 of his friends on iChat + the girl the room mate was staying with. That is all. No one heard about this when it happened a week ago. Literally no one. LITERALLY. And I live 3-4 blocks away from this kid's dorm, and have hundreds of friends at Rutgers. No one knew shit. He overreacted. 3. Of course I don't know those things. What I do know is that on the balance there are 2 things: 10 or so people finding out he was gay, or his life. There are absolutely NO circumstances that I would accept that would make the two equal, especially tipping to the taking your life side. No amount of parental beating, estrangement, discomfort, whatever... Would amount to me prepare my suicide for over an hour after finding out that it is vaguely public to like 10 people that some crappy webcam recorder what looked like me making out with my lover. Fuck that. No excuse. Life is the most valuable thing we possess, over privacy and sexual orientation. God damn you keep talking about it as if it were hardly a big deal that these people found out. It was his roommate, the person he lived with, ridiculing him over something that has most likely already traumatized him to start with. And stop saying it like it's universally accepted that life is the most valuable thing ever. It's obviously not to plenty of people, such as this kid. You talk as if he decided to commit suicide on a whim, and as if it's his fault that his roommate invaded his privacy and broadcast it on the internet. Yeah, and it's illegal, so no he shouldn't have expected this to happen. Also, what is more valuable than life? I don't want to start this argument, partly because it is not the subject at hand, and partly because I won't believe anything anyone tells me about something being more valuable than fucking LIFE. Sorry if this is pigheaded of me.
The first and most simple thing I can think of is honor. I believe the Samurai would commit suicide for whatever honorable reasons. The Japanese committed suicide via Kamakazi for their emperor. Dying for a cause, like civil rights maybe? Dying for any number of reasons, such as religion, could be considered more valuable than life.
And in this guys case, not having to live through what he PERSONALLY envisioned to be a completely traumatic moment was apparently not more valuable than life. Is it not obvious that he didn't consider it more valuable? That he didn't share your personal thoughts? Really? What more evidence do you need than the fact he committed suicide that not everyone shares your thoughts that life is the most valuable thing. Stop trying to impose your values as a universal standard, even if a lot of people would agree with you. It has no relevance to his decisions.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:54 artofmagic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Oh my intention of that post wasn't to argue about whether or not the suspect should be charge as manslaughter. I was explaining why such actions drove the victim to suicide. (actually it's natural for you to go against this post because of your view.. Will continue later )
Yea... What you are trying to say is directly linked to a proof of manslaughter lol.
On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/
:/ yea
On October 01 2010 06:54 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst. Caller, I found it hard to believe you were being serious as you were going on about how ODing on pills is primarily a waste of medical resources... To thread: Obviously suicide is not an objectively logical decision for most people who commit it... but suicide is usually committed in a state of temporary insanity so every1 prz stop blaming them for not making a sane decision. It isn't helping. Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/ Some people don't care if others watch a stream of them having sex without their knowledge... others care a LOT. Don't judge people by how you personally feel about the issue.
Then how do you explain the fact that he was posting on a website about this issue, hours before he committed suicide? The fact that he must have left his dorm at hours that are not too late (roughly 8 pm), driven for 40 minutes on the busiest road in the tri-state area, climbed a bridge, put his belongings, all without being stopped or caught? Doesn't seem like insanity or emotional overload to me.
On October 01 2010 06:55 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Whether they found out is irrelevant of the fact that he might of known they weren't supportive in the first place. That he was in this alone. That if his parents did find out, they might be ashamed (and don't think for a second that he might not be under this assumption, whether in reality it would be true or not). I wasn't assuming they were non-supportive, I meant to say that you can't assume that they were, or even more specifically that you can't assume that he assumed that they were. I'm going to assume MOST parents worldwide would not love their children enough... although that's changing, please realize that Asia itself is over half the world's population, where homosexuality is still very shameful/unaccepted. I would assume it's not very accepted in Africa as well, or many other third world locations. Latin America is very Catholic and very anti-homosexual as well (I THINK, NOT POSITIVE); and the Bible talks all the time in the Old Testament about killing sinners. And let's say the parents would rather have a gay child alive than gay child dead. But say that they would be devastated either way. Just more devastated if their son was dead. You really think it's selfish of the son to commit suicide because of it will hurt his parents only marginally more than it would be for them to find out he was homosexual, yet it would cause him even more anguish in his already desperate life? I'm just creating scenarios, as you have apparently utterly no sympathy and your words were absolute. Mine are not, and I'm not claiming this is what would happen. But when you are gay, you tend to doubt yourself much more so about who you are and your place in this world, or so seems to be the case. To all the "friends that he hurt," what if he was isolated and had little friends? So he's really not hurting his nonexistant friends. And he's possibly not hurting his parents as said before. He should just wallow in his own misery? I'm just saying there are so many variables you're not including, and you're downplaying what happened to ridiculously miniscule proportions when it obviously had a major psychological effect on him. My mother had a miscarriage and thus had to have an abortion. She said she had never had so many suicidal thoughts in her life ever. She didn't get out of bed for nearly a month. She saw no way out, she said she stopped feeling any love towards her husband, she stopped feeling any love towards her son, and she wanted more than anything to snap out of it. But she didn't feel loved either, nor apparently did she even want to. She hated even talking to other people. In this isolated state, where NO, you don't know if things will ever get better, I simply find it hard to not even have any empathy for those who simply can't make it because of what you would call "being weak."
1. Barring your Asian demographic reference as extremely irrelevant to this situation, I have to agree to disagree with you that that marginal difference in misery for the people that brought you up and raised you (don't get me wrong, I hate my parents, but I would do anything to make their life easier) is important, to me at least.
2. I know his friends. Of course I can't say how close they were to him, but I know the people he had class with, who he hung out with, who he got fat subs with, etc. They all tell me that he was a kind, if a bit shy, person with a good heart. Not that this is relevant, but I don't take a lot of my friends as the type of people to sensationalize themselves as claiming to be close to him simply for fame and attention. Many of them express regret for him being so candid about the issue with them. Many wish they could have stopped him. I would have stopped him. I would have been his friend. Many others would have as well. Everyone is on his side, and I think most would be even if he didn't kill himself over this. It was shortsighted of him, and selfish.
3. Your mother felt that way because she ended a life. The same thing that this guy did. I'm pro-abortion, but I imagine your mother is not as strongly pro-abortion as I am. If this story is about you and it's true, I'm sorry about the troubles you had to go through, and I'm glad she didn't kill herself. For the same reason, I am offended by this kid killing himself.
|
the example doesn't parallel with this case like you said, but it was to make a point that you don't need to physically push someone off the bridge to be responsible for his death.
also its not only breach of privacy if you go on your twitter mocking them of their sexual activities and broacasting it live for everyone to see.
If he cared about privacy so much he would have closed the window, or gone to a hotel, or covered up his homosexuality at least.
I am sorry, but any normal person would think asking your roommate to stay away from a night is a precaution for privacy. when two people are in a room, you normally expect that its just between two of them, not +webcam and rest of the world.
|
also him being calm on a forum. yea you can definitely gauge someone's emotional state from a forum post. see what i did there?
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:56 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Can I come live with you in your bubble? You do realize that the world doesn't work like that? There are plenty of people who won't accept others over silly things like this. Also guess what, the people that kill themselves are also generally the people who's parents aren't supportive! How surprising.
My bubble is nice, it has information, logic, and knowledge beyond what that article says about him. You can come join me any time. Thanks for being a dickwad about it though.
I'm not talking about most people, I'm talking about his fucking parents, first and foremost. On top of that, if any of my friends turned out to be gay (besides the ones that are), I would support them. So even if most people do not support them, I will be there. And I do not pretend to be alone in this.
Good for those people. My parents treated me like shit my whole life so I chose to run away and make my own stand. The people that kill themselves because of their parents simply don't have the courage to do that.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:03 Tempest186 wrote:
No...just no...
There is a violation of human dignity here, something you have yet to acknowledge. Whether that occurs in a homo- or hetero-sexual context is irrelevant. If my sexual habits were broadcast over the internet, I would feel de-valued and violated, as MOST (notice i said most) would. Whether I was throwing it to some chick or taking it from a guy is irrelevant.
It is this violation of human dignity that is the tragedy in this case. The homosexual angle has only served to publicize and complicate the matter further. I am glad that you do not consider yourself a homophobe and I hope it to be true...but I think you are greatly simplifying a complex situation, and missing the true point.
The true point is the violation of privacy, which you have just stated. From the beginning, I said that that was all it was.
Also, sorry if I do not quote you directly, but the poster talking of samurai mentality does bring up a point that I considered. However, I do not approve of suicide even in those situations. Yes, that is just my opinion, but it is similarly just your opinion that there is something more valuable than life. That is why I said I did not want to start a discussion, because nothing would convince me otherwise.
|
Sad story. I do think the act of suicide by the victim was exceedingly immature and selfish, though. Yes, it was deeply humiliating. Yes, it probably gave him the feeling that he can never show his face in public again and he probably felt like he could never trust a human being again. But you know what? Really bad things happen to a ton of people and it sure as hell wasn't the end for them.
I salute people who are able to recover from times like these and move on with their life, and I can only feel sorry for the people, like this suicider, who are too weak to persevere in life.
|
Very tragic. This is not something worth taking a life over and it is extremely sad that he did this. Best wishes for family and friends.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:06 viraltouch wrote:the example doesn't parallel with this case like you said, but it was to make a point that you don't need to physically push someone off the bridge to be responsible for his death. also its not only breach of privacy if you go on your twitter mocking them of their sexual activities and broacasting it live for everyone to see. Show nested quote +If he cared about privacy so much he would have closed the window, or gone to a hotel, or covered up his homosexuality at least. I am sorry, but any normal person would think asking your roommate to stay away from a night is a precaution for privacy. when two people are in a room, you normally expect that its just between two of them, not +webcam and rest of the world.
It was not the rest of the world. It was the room mate and his friends, which would have happened anyway, since he made it so obvious he was having a gay relationship. Word of mouth. He was not cautious enough, given that the stakes were so high.
Also, about forums:
http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320377
Go read for yourself.
|
Tbh if that happened to me with a chick I wouldn't consider it a huge deal at all. If on the other hand I was a closet homosexual and my sexual preferences were revealed to my friends and family by a video of me having sex with some dude it would pretty much fuck up my life completely. Not all families are as accepting of homosexuality.
|
On October 01 2010 07:09 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:56 d(O.o)a wrote:On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Can I come live with you in your bubble? You do realize that the world doesn't work like that? There are plenty of people who won't accept others over silly things like this. Also guess what, the people that kill themselves are also generally the people who's parents aren't supportive! How surprising. My bubble is nice, it has information, logic, and knowledge beyond what that article says about him. You can come join me any time. Thanks for being a dickwad about it though. I'm not talking about most people, I'm talking about his fucking parents, first and foremost. On top of that, if any of my friends turned out to be gay (besides the ones that are), I would support them. So even if most people do not support them, I will be there. And I do not pretend to be alone in this. Good for those people. My parents treated me like shit my whole life so I chose to run away and make my own stand. The people that kill themselves because of their parents simply don't have the courage to do that.
So what exactly do you personally think happens when you die or in specific when somebody commits suicide, maybe this is what's causing us to disagree. Personally I think it's nothing just complete nothingness and some people would prefer that over humiliation.
On a side note, not everybody is like you. I personally am an accepting person, I don't judge people for their decisions or choices in life (except gosugamers.net users but that's a different story.) however for every person who isn't going to judge somebody there's another person who is completely judgmental and will completely let something like this effect their opinion of a person.
Can you imagine applying for a job and going in for the interview only to have the person hiring you recognize you from you having intercourse with a partner? It would be horrific.
You personally don't judge him for being gay but I can guarantee you that not everybody at his college shares the same view.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
Seeing as I have answered a lot of posts up to this point, and there are others with the same mentality as me, I am going to take a break from this. I am already sick of hearing about this everywhere around me from every person, in person and over the internet, thinking they deserve a 5 minute monologue about acceptance and how these people deserve the fucking death sentence. I tried to keep it civil with all of you, and remember, these are just my opinions, yours are your own.
Good day.
|
On October 01 2010 07:05 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:54 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Oh my intention of that post wasn't to argue about whether or not the suspect should be charge as manslaughter. I was explaining why such actions drove the victim to suicide. (actually it's natural for you to go against this post because of your view.. Will continue later ) Yea... What you are trying to say is directly linked to a proof of manslaughter lol. Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/ :/ yea Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:54 micronesia wrote:On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst. Caller, I found it hard to believe you were being serious as you were going on about how ODing on pills is primarily a waste of medical resources... To thread: Obviously suicide is not an objectively logical decision for most people who commit it... but suicide is usually committed in a state of temporary insanity so every1 prz stop blaming them for not making a sane decision. It isn't helping. On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/ Some people don't care if others watch a stream of them having sex without their knowledge... others care a LOT. Don't judge people by how you personally feel about the issue. Then how do you explain the fact that he was posting on a website about this issue, hours before he committed suicide? The fact that he must have left his dorm at hours that are not too late (roughly 8 pm), driven for 40 minutes on the busiest road in the tri-state area, climbed a bridge, put his belongings, all without being stopped or caught? Doesn't seem like insanity or emotional overload to me. Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:55 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Whether they found out is irrelevant of the fact that he might of known they weren't supportive in the first place. That he was in this alone. That if his parents did find out, they might be ashamed (and don't think for a second that he might not be under this assumption, whether in reality it would be true or not). I wasn't assuming they were non-supportive, I meant to say that you can't assume that they were, or even more specifically that you can't assume that he assumed that they were. I'm going to assume MOST parents worldwide would not love their children enough... although that's changing, please realize that Asia itself is over half the world's population, where homosexuality is still very shameful/unaccepted. I would assume it's not very accepted in Africa as well, or many other third world locations. Latin America is very Catholic and very anti-homosexual as well (I THINK, NOT POSITIVE); and the Bible talks all the time in the Old Testament about killing sinners. And let's say the parents would rather have a gay child alive than gay child dead. But say that they would be devastated either way. Just more devastated if their son was dead. You really think it's selfish of the son to commit suicide because of it will hurt his parents only marginally more than it would be for them to find out he was homosexual, yet it would cause him even more anguish in his already desperate life? I'm just creating scenarios, as you have apparently utterly no sympathy and your words were absolute. Mine are not, and I'm not claiming this is what would happen. But when you are gay, you tend to doubt yourself much more so about who you are and your place in this world, or so seems to be the case. To all the "friends that he hurt," what if he was isolated and had little friends? So he's really not hurting his nonexistant friends. And he's possibly not hurting his parents as said before. He should just wallow in his own misery? I'm just saying there are so many variables you're not including, and you're downplaying what happened to ridiculously miniscule proportions when it obviously had a major psychological effect on him. My mother had a miscarriage and thus had to have an abortion. She said she had never had so many suicidal thoughts in her life ever. She didn't get out of bed for nearly a month. She saw no way out, she said she stopped feeling any love towards her husband, she stopped feeling any love towards her son, and she wanted more than anything to snap out of it. But she didn't feel loved either, nor apparently did she even want to. She hated even talking to other people. In this isolated state, where NO, you don't know if things will ever get better, I simply find it hard to not even have any empathy for those who simply can't make it because of what you would call "being weak." 1. Barring your Asian demographic reference as extremely irrelevant to this situation, I have to agree to disagree with you that that marginal difference in misery for the people that brought you up and raised you (don't get me wrong, I hate my parents, but I would do anything to make their life easier) is important, to me at least. 2. I know his friends. Of course I can't say how close they were to him, but I know the people he had class with, who he hung out with, who he got fat subs with, etc. They all tell me that he was a kind, if a bit shy, person with a good heart. Not that this is relevant, but I don't take a lot of my friends as the type of people to sensationalize themselves as claiming to be close to him simply for fame and attention. Many of them express regret for him being so candid about the issue with them. Many wish they could have stopped him. I would have stopped him. I would have been his friend. Many others would have as well. Everyone is on his side, and I think most would be even if he didn't kill himself over this. It was shortsighted of him, and selfish. 3. Your mother felt that way because she ended a life. The same thing that this guy did. I'm pro-abortion, but I imagine your mother is not as strongly pro-abortion as I am. If this story is about you and it's true, I'm sorry about the troubles you had to go through, and I'm glad she didn't kill herself. For the same reason, I am offended by this kid killing himself.
I think you misunderstood me. I was referencing hypothetical situations because of how you were talking about suicide universally. Not just with this instance. And I just found a hole in your theory that could apply to well over half the entire globe, and you're dismissing it because it doesn't apply to this specific instance and the society you've grown up in.
My mother is incredibly democratic and extremely proabortion. She said she felt that way had more than anything to do with abortions potentially causing extreme hormonal imbalance in the women who get them. It's not uncommon (not sure that it's common, either, however).
PS. I don't remember it, I was like 3 or 4.
PSS. You can't use an internet forum to gauge how someone is feeling. And just fyi, I'm the one with the samurai comment, and I never said that it was more valuable than life. I just said it is for some people. I don't have the statement to make the claim what is most valuable, because it's subjective, not objective like you stated it to be (unless I misinterpreted you). And as a closing comment, I never suggested they should be charged for manslaughter and I don't believe a lot of other people are either that you are arguing with, so I'd stop assuming such. Whatever laws they broke, aka breach of privacy to fourth and third degrees and 5 years of prison, they deserve, but I never said they deserve manslaughter charges.
|
I don't think there are any problems that lie specifically in being selfish. It seems to me that in life that our primary obligation is to tend to our selves and to do what we want.
(this is in response to the whole "suicide is selfish" argument. My reply is "yes, but so what?") It's not our responsibility to protect others from indirect harm, that doesn't seem reasonable at all.
|
This is just wrong, when will people stop basing others on their race, sexuality, and other things. Sometimes, I hope everyone looked the same and felt the same, even if the world would be very boring.
|
I think the major reason why you are getting flamed Murderotica is due to insensitivity.
Most people are logical enough to deduce as to why suicide is illogical. But I must say that the method by which you are attempting to prove it, for lack of a better word, BLOWS. You are taking a particular case, and blaming it on the victim.
This insensitivity will likely just cause people to dislike you, as even I am trying to hold back contempt lol. If you want to validate the wrongs of suicide do it simply and to the point, without coming across like a douche. Now, I don't know you, you may be awesome and I hope you are. I just want to let you know what your problem in this particular forum is.
1) your points are too rambling and contradictory. If your going to say something, get to the point. (ie if health is a virtue or good, then the cessation of life under any circumstances is a vice/bad)...see that!
2) don't come across so hostile lol.
Just looking out for you kid! Good luck
|
On October 01 2010 06:54 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst. Caller, I found it hard to believe you were being serious as you were going on about how ODing on pills is primarily a waste of medical resources... To thread: Obviously suicide is not an objectively logical decision for most people who commit it... but suicide is usually committed in a state of temporary insanity so every1 prz stop blaming them for not making a sane decision. It isn't helping. Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/ Some people don't care if others watch a stream of them having sex without their knowledge... others care a LOT. Don't judge people by how you personally feel about the issue.
eh I should've clarified that part:
I was volunteering in the ER one day when the ambulatory team came in with someone that was unconscious. As a result, half the staff dropped what they were doing and rushed over. Meanwhile, there was a lady in another room that was in a great amount of pain. She kept begging me to go get a doctor. But all of them were busy dealing with the new patient, and I couldn't blame them. Still, that lady suffered very unnecessarily. Later, one of the docs left and I overheard "od" and "suicide attempt."
That's a pretty silly anecdote now that I think about it, but that's what I was talking about, not that they were eating pills.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:15 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 07:09 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:56 d(O.o)a wrote:On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP. I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had. It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous. I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking. Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem. P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided. Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is. Can I come live with you in your bubble? You do realize that the world doesn't work like that? There are plenty of people who won't accept others over silly things like this. Also guess what, the people that kill themselves are also generally the people who's parents aren't supportive! How surprising. My bubble is nice, it has information, logic, and knowledge beyond what that article says about him. You can come join me any time. Thanks for being a dickwad about it though. I'm not talking about most people, I'm talking about his fucking parents, first and foremost. On top of that, if any of my friends turned out to be gay (besides the ones that are), I would support them. So even if most people do not support them, I will be there. And I do not pretend to be alone in this. Good for those people. My parents treated me like shit my whole life so I chose to run away and make my own stand. The people that kill themselves because of their parents simply don't have the courage to do that. So what exactly do you personally think happens when you die or in specific when somebody commits suicide, maybe this is what's causing us to disagree. Personally I think it's nothing just complete nothingness and some people would prefer that over humiliation. On a side note, not everybody is like you. I personally am an accepting person, I don't judge people for their decisions or choices in life (except gosugamers.net users but that's a different story.) however for every person who isn't going to judge somebody there's another person who is completely judgmental and will completely let something like this effect their opinion of a person. Can you imagine applying for a job and going in for the interview only to have the person hiring you recognize you from you having intercourse with a partner? It would be horrific. You personally don't judge him for being gay but I can guarantee you that not everybody at his college shares the same view.
1. I am agnostic, I believe in science, and therefore the decay of our bodies. That is why I say we only have 1 life to live. I feel that makes it more valuable to me than perhaps even religion can make it seem, with the divine judgment ahead and all that. Personal opinion of course.
2. Of course there are some hateful people. In Rutgers, most of the people worth more than 2 shit are accepting, we are a progressive area/community/school. I'm sure there are more people here that are as accepting than just you and me combined.
3. I can imagine it, I would gladly not work for said person if they use that fact against me. Like I said, I believe most people would support the victim in this case, even if he didn't kill himself, because what those 2 did is pretty fucking low. It's not manslaughter though :/ which is what I've been trying to say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
