Gay College Student Suicide after Webcam Broadcast

On October 01 2010 05:43 StimD wrote:
Emma Watson crotch shot???

On October 01 2010 05:52 viraltouch wrote:
if the celebrity that was violated kills him/herself due to the leaked video tape, it would become a big deal as well. and majority of celeb porn tapes are filmed with their permission, and leaking it usually gives them $.

its just funny how you are not focusing on the issue at hand. lol

On October 01 2010 05:56 Coagulation wrote:


is this said crotch shot??

On October 01 2010 05:58 dybydx wrote:
i believe something like this happened in China too, the girl had sex with her bf which was unknowingly taped by a 3rd person. when the vid came out on the net, she was humiliated and killed herself as a result.

sometimes its i feel great knowing hell exists for ppl that really need it.

On October 01 2010 05:42 FabledIntegral wrote:
Found this article interesting.

A college student asked his roommate if he could have the room for the night. His roommate let him have the room, but hid a webcam in the room and broadcast what was happening over the internet, annoucing what his roommate was doing via twitter. Something along the lines of "My roommate is making out with another dude, yay!" and also broadcast him having sex with another man. Traumatized by the results and being ridiculed, he ended up committing suicde over the matter.



Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39438381/ns/us_news?GT1=43001

Something I always think about when stories like these come around; how would this be any different if it was a celebrity? Are they supposed to tolerate things like this because they are celebrities? What about sex tapes released? What about poor Emma Watson who had a crotch shot (edit: guys, this was like over a year ago...) like how many weeks after she turned 18? Has this happened to a gay celebrity yet? I feel like the entire media would go crazy and blow up the issue if a closet gay celebrity had sex transmitted over the web, with no one saying anything wrong was done (well there would be backlash if the celeb committed suicide, but not by the mere act of transmitting the web feed). But since it was a random teen that ended up committing suicide, there's an immense backlash.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be and what the roommate did (with a friend of his) was unacceptable. They even tried to do it a second time, as it says in the article. I think EVERYONE though should have a right to privacy, including celebrities, and don't get why the media is allowed to eat it up/papparazi shove cameras in their face nonstop. What do you guys think?

On October 01 2010 06:02 Irrelevant wrote:
is it bad if once I heard Emma crotch shot I lost all interest in the rest of this story and am now googling to find pics?

On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP.

On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
Rather than talk about privacy, I think we need a serious discussion on how fucking stupid suicide is.

On October 01 2010 06:11 Glaven wrote:


I'm not sure if it's just me but that makes absolutely no sense. Really sad story, hope some form of justice is had.

On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:

It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous.

On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:

It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous.

On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
just because they can't deal with a period of angst. Sure, it might be really hard on you, but how is it just that you can waste people's time and energy, and threaten the lives of others (by depleting medical resources) just because of your own self-pity and angst?

On October 01 2010 06:23 Manifesto7 wrote:


Empathy not your strong suit obviously.

On October 01 2010 06:28 Achillean wrote:
He would rather die over being gay than just live a normal life... I can't find a shred of sympathy.

On October 01 2010 06:30 d(O.o)a wrote:


Except chances are he won't have a normal life, everybody at his college knows and chances are word will break to his family (which we do not know what the situation with them is).

This very well could have ruined his life.

On October 01 2010 06:32 deepstyle wrote:

so if you're gay you cant lead a normal life?

On October 01 2010 06:25 Asur wrote:

You clearly have never had to deal with anxiety or depression if you can type such nonsense...

On October 01 2010 06:32 deepstyle wrote:

so if you're gay you cant lead a normal life?

On October 01 2010 06:08 d(O.o)a wrote:


I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding your post or not so before I make an idiot of myself I feel I have to ask you're not trying to imply that the people who committed suicide belong in hell, are you?

On October 01 2010 06:25 travis wrote:
I think we can agree that all parties involved behaved with incredible shortsightedness.




well that sure is incredibly judgemental

firstly, where exactly should he go have gay sex other than his room? maybe he was really fucking horny right then and there wasn't another reasonable place to do it.

secondly, it's reasonable to say that there is a big difference between just your roommate finding out, and your roommate recording and streaming your gay sex to the general public on the internet.

thirdly, while it surely was, as i said - shortsighted to kill himself over this... you lack compassion for him just because he was shortsighted? you don't know how he felt about his sexuality or how his life went to make him feel this way :/

On October 01 2010 06:33 Caller wrote:

lol.

I spent three years with a psychiatrist because I was being bullied. I know what it's like, believe me. Even today I still suffer from anxiety. Oh I even contemplated suicide at one point, believe me. But just thinking about all the people that would be hurt if I did that just made it such a sickening idea that I threw up.

Everybody thinks their angst and depression is real bad. The fact is people should live their lives and see what's down the road. Who knows, they may be able to look back on it and laugh, or they may think of it as happier times. This is the equivalent of someone thinking that since a coin flipped tails two times in a row that they should stop trying to get a heads.

On October 01 2010 06:33 travis wrote:
but fanaticist you're comparing one of your strengths to what was clearly one of his weaknesses

not everyone is wise enough to keep looking at things objectively when their fears start coming true

On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:

It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous.

On October 01 2010 06:36 viraltouch wrote:
@murderotica
but the thing is, you wouldn't know what kind of state the dude was in even if you tried. so it is just wrong for you to judge what should have been done on his behalf.

what matters is that the video tape was the proximate cause of his death. and that the video tape was filmed with intention to humiliate him by revealing it online. that is a serious crime.

On October 01 2010 06:36 Murderotica wrote:

1. The other guy's room, since he already knew that his room mate was spying on him/aware of the situation. I read the forum on which he posted. He said all this. Or a hotel. Or somewhere else. This is all assuming that he is so candid about it that he would kill himself over someone finding out. Oh wait, that's what happened. If the choices are: don't get caught, or kill yourself, which would you pick? I would pick the former, regardless of the cost.

2. Room mate + 5 of his friends on iChat + the girl the room mate was staying with. That is all. No one heard about this when it happened a week ago. Literally no one. LITERALLY. And I live 3-4 blocks away from this kid's dorm, and have hundreds of friends at Rutgers. No one knew shit. He overreacted.

3. Of course I don't know those things. What I do know is that on the balance there are 2 things: 10 or so people finding out he was gay, or his life. There are absolutely NO circumstances that I would accept that would make the two equal, especially tipping to the taking your life side. No amount of parental beating, estrangement, discomfort, whatever... Would amount to me prepare my suicide for over an hour after finding out that it is vaguely public to like 10 people that some crappy webcam recorder what looked like me making out with my lover. Fuck that. No excuse. Life is the most valuable thing we possess, over privacy and sexual orientation.

On October 01 2010 06:40 artofmagic wrote:


I cant go against you about you having no sympathy for people who suicided. but what we have here is a breach of huge privacy. One of the victim's most privatest moment was broadcasted via INTERNET, and the culprit post updates on twitter. This is worse than screaming on campus that he's gay and was fucking.
Gay isn't accepted by everybody. Maybe his family is super anti-gay and what not. Unfortunately people sometime believe suicide is the solution to the problem.

P.S. This post isn't to argue about your insensitivity of victims who suicided.

On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
Rather than talk about privacy, I think we need a serious discussion on how fucking stupid suicide is.

Suicide shouldn't be deified or used as support for a cause like we see here. Suicide isn't something to turn people into martyrs. It should be ridiculed, laughed at, and just made to be the cowardly, selfish act that it is, so that the only people that end up doing it are the cowardly selfish people that we would be better off without.

On October 01 2010 06:33 Caller wrote:
I spent three years with a psychiatrist because I was being bullied. I know what it's like, believe me.

On October 01 2010 06:33 Caller wrote:
Everybody thinks their angst and depression is real bad.

On October 01 2010 06:45 brafix wrote:


Although I wish I could be a healthy, upstanding individual like you, I was born with a genetic defect that causes me great chronic physical pain due to spinal deformity. One day I may have to weigh the option of ending my life if I feel the progression of my condition and pain justify an end to my suffering.

If that day ever comes, I hope you actually have the balls to come to my funeral and tell everyone in attendance what a worthless piece of shit I am and how my mother and father should not be mourning me, but rather ridiculing me and spitting on my corpse.

Lets hope you are as consistent as you seem.

No, it's a violation of privacy, that is all. It's not manslaughter. They did not accidentally push him off the bridge or something. Any correlation between the video and his death is subjective assumption and cannot be substantiated. He posted earlier THAT DAY on a forum in a calm and sane manner, ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. He was not overwrought with emotion. He just used it as an escape route, choosing death over life. That is the evidence.

On October 01 2010 06:43 FabledIntegral wrote:


God damn you keep talking about it as if it were hardly a big deal that these people found out. It was his roommate, the person he lived with, ridiculing him over something that has most likely already traumatized him to start with. And stop saying it like it's universally accepted that life is the most valuable thing ever. It's obviously not to plenty of people, such as this kid. You talk as if he decided to commit suicide on a whim, and as if it's his fault that his roommate invaded his privacy and broadcast it on the internet. Yeah, and it's illegal, so no he shouldn't have expected this to happen.

On October 01 2010 06:47 viraltouch wrote:


did you know that it is manslaughter to leave a baby in a car on a hot day if the baby is killed?
of course the guardian did not intend to suffocate the baby. he/she just didn't take the baby out from the car. its the same thing. the idea is PROXIMATE CAUSE of her not taking the baby out. for this case its the video tape. watch how this plays out.

On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:

Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.

On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst.

On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/

On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:

Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.

On October 01 2010 06:48 Tempest186 wrote:
Ya, I really do feel as though people are missing the point, and letting homophobia (however hidden and subtle as it may be) cloud their judgement on the issue. A young man was exposed, not for being a homosexual, but while in an intimate and passionate act with a loved one (or what I can assume to be). Nevertheless, broadcasting this act is not only a violation of his privacy, but of his dignity. Then, to be teased and tormented after the fact, rather than shown the least bit of compassion, only compounds the inhumanity this guy was shown.

You are all confusing this, the key concept, with the fact that he was gay. If this had been a woman, inviting her bf over, being video-taped/broadcasted and then tormented later, there would be a tremendous uproar. But people seem to be more concerned about him being OUTED as a gay, rather then the violation of his human right to privacy and security.

Being GAY has nothing to do with this, absolutely nothing. And those of you stating that his attempts to hide his relationship were at fault are absolutely ignorant and homophobic, no matter how much you try to hide it. In that case, there is no reasoning with you, as you are doomed to remain ignorant.

That being said, I do not condone or support suicide. I am a med student, the preservation of life is of the utmost importance to me. Suicide makes no logical, biological or ethical sense. Nevertheless, I can empathize for this young man, and his terrible situation. I don't think it warranted suicide, but sympathy yes.

Don't let ignorance and hate cloud your judgement people, actually read and understand a situation if you feel the need to comment.

On October 01 2010 06:44 Murderotica wrote:

Even if his family was so non-supporting, they wouldn't have found out from twitter. Any sane person would have accepted him anyways, of course with a shock and some grief, but they are adults and they would probably deal. For you to assume that they were non-supportive is as much of a fallacy as it would be for me to assume his parents are gay and that they would be 100% supporting, so let's not go there. Let's just assume that MOST parents would still love their child enough to prefer them to be alive than dead. It is a breach of privacy. But that is all it is.

On October 01 2010 06:40 Piy wrote:
So I don't think we can vilify the guys that did it to quite the extent they have been.

On October 01 2010 06:48 Murderotica wrote:

Also, what is more valuable than life? I don't want to start this argument, partly because it is not the subject at hand, and partly because I won't believe anything anyone tells me about something being more valuable than fucking LIFE. Sorry if this is pigheaded of me.

On October 01 2010 06:54 artofmagic wrote:


Oh my intention of that post wasn't to argue about whether or not the suspect should be charge as manslaughter. I was explaining why such actions drove the victim to suicide. (actually it's natural for you to go against this post because of your view.. Will continue later )

On October 01 2010 06:54 Bub wrote:
killing yourself over something like that =/

On October 01 2010 06:54 micronesia wrote:

Caller, I found it hard to believe you were being serious as you were going on about how ODing on pills is primarily a waste of medical resources...

To thread:

Obviously suicide is not an objectively logical decision for most people who commit it... but suicide is usually committed in a state of temporary insanity so every1 prz stop blaming them for not making a sane decision. It isn't helping.


Some people don't care if others watch a stream of them having sex without their knowledge... others care a LOT. Don't judge people by how you personally feel about the issue.

On October 01 2010 06:55 FabledIntegral wrote:


Whether they found out is irrelevant of the fact that he might of known they weren't supportive in the first place. That he was in this alone. That if his parents did find out, they might be ashamed (and don't think for a second that he might not be under this assumption, whether in reality it would be true or not).

I wasn't assuming they were non-supportive, I meant to say that you can't assume that they were, or even more specifically that you can't assume that he assumed that they were. I'm going to assume MOST parents worldwide would not love their children enough... although that's changing, please realize that Asia itself is over half the world's population, where homosexuality is still very shameful/unaccepted. I would assume it's not very accepted in Africa as well, or many other third world locations. Latin America is very Catholic and very anti-homosexual as well (I THINK, NOT POSITIVE); and the Bible talks all the time in the Old Testament about killing sinners.

And let's say the parents would rather have a gay child alive than gay child dead. But say that they would be devastated either way. Just more devastated if their son was dead. You really think it's selfish of the son to commit suicide because of it will hurt his parents only marginally more than it would be for them to find out he was homosexual, yet it would cause him even more anguish in his already desperate life? I'm just creating scenarios, as you have apparently utterly no sympathy and your words were absolute. Mine are not, and I'm not claiming this is what would happen. But when you are gay, you tend to doubt yourself much more so about who you are and your place in this world, or so seems to be the case.

To all the "friends that he hurt," what if he was isolated and had little friends? So he's really not hurting his nonexistant friends. And he's possibly not hurting his parents as said before. He should just wallow in his own misery? I'm just saying there are so many variables you're not including, and you're downplaying what happened to ridiculously miniscule proportions when it obviously had a major psychological effect on him.

My mother had a miscarriage and thus had to have an abortion. She said she had never had so many suicidal thoughts in her life ever. She didn't get out of bed for nearly a month. She saw no way out, she said she stopped feeling any love towards her husband, she stopped feeling any love towards her son, and she wanted more than anything to snap out of it. But she didn't feel loved either, nor apparently did she even want to. She hated even talking to other people. In this isolated state, where NO, you don't know if things will ever get better, I simply find it hard to not even have any empathy for those who simply can't make it because of what you would call "being weak."

If he cared about privacy so much he would have closed the window, or gone to a hotel, or covered up his homosexuality at least.

On October 01 2010 06:56 d(O.o)a wrote:


Can I come live with you in your bubble?

You do realize that the world doesn't work like that? There are plenty of people who won't accept others over silly things like this.

Also guess what, the people that kill themselves are also generally the people who's parents aren't supportive! How surprising.

On October 01 2010 07:03 Tempest186 wrote:
No...just no...

There is a violation of human dignity here, something you have yet to acknowledge. Whether that occurs in a homo- or hetero-sexual context is irrelevant. If my sexual habits were broadcast over the internet, I would feel de-valued and violated, as MOST (notice i said most) would. Whether I was throwing it to some chick or taking it from a guy is irrelevant.

It is this violation of human dignity that is the tragedy in this case. The homosexual angle has only served to publicize and complicate the matter further. I am glad that you do not consider yourself a homophobe and I hope it to be true...but I think you are greatly simplifying a complex situation, and missing the true point.

On October 01 2010 07:06 viraltouch wrote:
the example doesn't parallel with this case like you said, but it was to make a point that you don't need to physically push someone off the bridge to be responsible for his death.

also its not only breach of privacy if you go on your twitter mocking them of their sexual activities and broacasting it live for everyone to see.


I am sorry, but any normal person would think asking your roommate to stay away from a night is a precaution for privacy. when two people are in a room, you normally expect that its just between two of them, not +webcam and rest of the world.

On October 01 2010 07:09 Murderotica wrote:

My bubble is nice, it has information, logic, and knowledge beyond what that article says about him. You can come join me any time. Thanks for being a dickwad about it though.

I'm not talking about most people, I'm talking about his fucking parents, first and foremost. On top of that, if any of my friends turned out to be gay (besides the ones that are), I would support them. So even if most people do not support them, I will be there. And I do not pretend to be alone in this.

Good for those people. My parents treated me like shit my whole life so I chose to run away and make my own stand. The people that kill themselves because of their parents simply don't have the courage to do that.

On October 01 2010 07:05 Murderotica wrote:

Yea... What you are trying to say is directly linked to a proof of manslaughter lol.


:/ yea



Then how do you explain the fact that he was posting on a website about this issue, hours before he committed suicide? The fact that he must have left his dorm at hours that are not too late (roughly 8 pm), driven for 40 minutes on the busiest road in the tri-state area, climbed a bridge, put his belongings, all without being stopped or caught? Doesn't seem like insanity or emotional overload to me.



1. Barring your Asian demographic reference as extremely irrelevant to this situation, I have to agree to disagree with you that that marginal difference in misery for the people that brought you up and raised you (don't get me wrong, I hate my parents, but I would do anything to make their life easier) is important, to me at least.

2. I know his friends. Of course I can't say how close they were to him, but I know the people he had class with, who he hung out with, who he got fat subs with, etc. They all tell me that he was a kind, if a bit shy, person with a good heart. Not that this is relevant, but I don't take a lot of my friends as the type of people to sensationalize themselves as claiming to be close to him simply for fame and attention. Many of them express regret for him being so candid about the issue with them. Many wish they could have stopped him. I would have stopped him. I would have been his friend. Many others would have as well. Everyone is on his side, and I think most would be even if he didn't kill himself over this. It was shortsighted of him, and selfish.

3. Your mother felt that way because she ended a life. The same thing that this guy did. I'm pro-abortion, but I imagine your mother is not as strongly pro-abortion as I am. If this story is about you and it's true, I'm sorry about the troubles you had to go through, and I'm glad she didn't kill herself. For the same reason, I am offended by this kid killing himself.

On October 01 2010 06:54 micronesia wrote:

Caller, I found it hard to believe you were being serious as you were going on about how ODing on pills is primarily a waste of medical resources...

To thread:

Obviously suicide is not an objectively logical decision for most people who commit it... but suicide is usually committed in a state of temporary insanity so every1 prz stop blaming them for not making a sane decision. It isn't helping.


Some people don't care if others watch a stream of them having sex without their knowledge... others care a LOT. Don't judge people by how you personally feel about the issue.

On October 01 2010 07:15 d(O.o)a wrote:


So what exactly do you personally think happens when you die or in specific when somebody commits suicide, maybe this is what's causing us to disagree. Personally I think it's nothing just complete nothingness and some people would prefer that over humiliation.

On a side note, not everybody is like you. I personally am an accepting person, I don't judge people for their decisions or choices in life (except gosugamers.net users but that's a different story.) however for every person who isn't going to judge somebody there's another person who is completely judgmental and will completely let something like this effect their opinion of a person.

Can you imagine applying for a job and going in for the interview only to have the person hiring you recognize you from you having intercourse with a partner? It would be horrific.

You personally don't judge him for being gay but I can guarantee you that not everybody at his college shares the same view.

On October 01 2010 07:17 Tempest186 wrote:
I think the major reason why you are getting flamed Murderotica is due to insensitivity.

Most people are logical enough to deduce as to why suicide is illogical. But I must say that the method by which you are attempting to prove it, for lack of a better word, BLOWS. You are taking a particular case, and blaming it on the victim.

This insensitivity will likely just cause people to dislike you, as even I am trying to hold back contempt lol. If you want to validate the wrongs of suicide do it simply and to the point, without coming across like a douche. Now, I don't know you, you may be awesome and I hope you are. I just want to let you know what your problem in this particular forum is.

1) your points are too rambling and contradictory. If your going to say something, get to the point. (ie if health is a virtue or good, then the cessation of life under any circumstances is a vice/bad)...see that!

2) don't come across so hostile lol.

Just looking out for you kid! Good luck

On October 01 2010 07:25 Lurker87 wrote:
Have to wonder just how little self-esteem that roommate must have had, that he had to do something so extravagant, in hopes of appearing cool on the net (many try to impress on the internet, with no foreseeable reward, but this really IS extreme...).

What an ass... I wouldn't be surprised if he felt absolutely remorse over his actions.

On October 01 2010 07:22 Murderotica wrote:

I am an insensitive person. I never disagreed with that. I am also a douche a lot of the time, but it is because I am honest to myself and to others about my opinion. That makes it probably worse, since it means I am an asshole at heart, but, oh well.

1) Sorry, English not my first language. I try to write well but sometimes I fuck up.

2) I'm a generally hostile person.

EDIT: Thanks

On October 01 2010 07:27 Murderotica wrote:
Also btw the girl so far has been proven to only do 1 thing, which is let the guy use her room. How the fuck is that a manslaughter charge? She would have been letting him use the room even without the webcam fiasco.

On October 01 2010 07:29 Rev0lution wrote:


I don't think your honest in as much as you are blunt and bluntness comes from immaturity.
You can make your point without sounding like a huge dick, you know?

Work on your social skills, I take it your a douche online but actually a pretty down to earth guy IRL?

On October 01 2010 07:30 Manifesto7 wrote:
At the end of the day, because of the parameters that have been set up in society about being gay, "coming out" is a profound moment for many gay people. Some do it easily and willingly, some have to pick the right place and time, some have to wait for a certain family member to pass away, and some never do it at all.

We don't know where Clementi was in the process, but we do know that his roommate took that choice, that incredibly important decision, away from him. On a whim. For a joke. A twitter joke. Nobody has a right to do that.



Clementi on the left, the human garbage that did it on the middle and right.

On October 01 2010 07:30 Manifesto7 wrote:
At the end of the day, because of the parameters that have been set up in society about being gay, "coming out" is a profound moment for many gay people. Some do it easily and willingly, some have to pick the right place and time, some have to wait for a certain family member to pass away, and some never do it at all.

We don't know where Clementi was in the process, but we do know that his roommate took that choice, that incredibly important decision, away from him. On a whim. For a joke. A twitter joke. Nobody has a right to do that.



Clementi on the left, the human garbage that did it on the middle and right.

On October 01 2010 07:32 Murderotica wrote:

Blunt = down to earth imo. I speak pretty much the same way in person, and yea it pisses a lot of people off, but I think honesty helps a lot of people out in some ways. When other people are blindly supporting of someone, I am blunt and tell them that they are stupid, they fucked up, and here are reasons a b and c for why what they did is stupid. That's down to earth, right? I don't feel the need to work on my social skills because I get along with a lot of people, and the people I don't get along with (obviously, if I have the luxury of doing such, as in people who are not my boss/colleagues/clients) I can live without, because it expresses a fundamental flaw between us.

On October 01 2010 06:38 Ichabod wrote:
This story is really unfortunate...but why is it national (international) news? Approximately 90 people in the US alone commit suicide every day (2007 data, 33,000/year source), sure the circumstances surrounding this suicide are 'unique' because he was homosexual (Edit: and was outed in the a pretty terrible way), but it is not like this doesn't happen all the time (Edit: over lesser and greater things)...why single him out even in death?

I don't think there are any problems that lie specifically in being selfish. It seems to me that in life that our primary obligation is to tend to our selves and to do what we want.

(this is in response to the whole "suicide is selfish" argument. My reply is "yes, but so what?") It's not our responsibility to protect others from indirect harm, that doesn't seem reasonable at all.

On October 01 2010 07:19 Murderotica wrote:
1. I am agnostic, I believe in science, and therefore the decay of our bodies. That is why I say we only have 1 life to live. I feel that makes it more valuable to me than perhaps even religion can make it seem, with the divine judgment ahead and all that. Personal opinion of course.

On October 01 2010 08:05 HeavOnEarth wrote:
yeah i agree, murderotica's tone isnt meant to antagonize its merely to make his point clearer, i really don't mind at all.
however, its unfair to judge a person without knowing their background, if he hasn't come out to anyone , his friends family, for this long there was probably a good reason.
- unsupporting parents
- he did before and got shut down/ harassed
Not saying i condone his suicide(personally i think its pathetic) but it's unfair to be presumptuous to say "he committed suicide over that" when you aren't gay and don't know anything about his life experience

On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
Rather than talk about privacy, I think we need a serious discussion on how fucking stupid suicide is.

Every religion and even just plain old evolutionary thought discusses suicide as being a waste of everything. Suicide is probably the ultimate selfish thing to do. When people try and OD on pills and whatnot, all they are doing is wasting medical resources that other people may need, just because they can't deal with a period of angst. Sure, it might be really hard on you, but how is it just that you can waste people's time and energy, and threaten the lives of others (by depleting medical resources) just because of your own self-pity and angst? Especially teenagers. They fail to see how people struggle to survive in places and they take that gift of not having to worry about surviving the next day and just throwing it away. They fail to understand what parents have spent a HUGE portion of their lives doing. This guy must have had super parents backing him up to become such an accomplished violinist. Just because his roommate streamed video of him making out with a guy he throws all that away? Ungrateful is what it is.

Homophobia (thought it is a huge problem, and I am as guilty as the next person) isn't the issue here. It could have been some other kind of stimulus and this kid likely would've still thrown it away. I know people who have committed suicide just because they couldn't get tenure. I know people who have nearly thrown their lives away for some of the most stupid reasons. I know kids who have thought about suicide just because they were being bullied at school. So was I! I was being bullied a LOT in middle school, but I took it like a man and changed so that was no longer the case.

There was a J-drama I watched that best sums up how hypocritical suicide is. A person is shown a video of their open heart surgery, especially how their heart is beating. The doctor remarks how ironic it is that while she is trying to throw her life away, that little heart is like a baby struggling to stay alive. And the thought that if you killed yourself you would be taking this baby down with you too-that perhaps is the feeling we need to convey to stupid angsty people.

Suicide shouldn't be deified or used as support for a cause like we see here. Suicide isn't something to turn people into martyrs. It should be ridiculed, laughed at, and just made to be the cowardly, selfish act that it is, so that the only people that end up doing it are the cowardly selfish people that we would be better off without.

On October 01 2010 07:53 travis wrote:
I think murderotica is in the right to say whatever the fuck it is that he thinks and if people take that as hostility it's kind of their problem.

because i wanted someone who opposed this view to respond to it, ill post it again



ironically this can also be used to defend blunt communication methods

On October 01 2010 05:58 dybydx wrote:
sometimes its i feel great knowing hell exists for ppl that really need it.

On October 01 2010 07:13 Murderotica wrote:

It was not the rest of the world. It was the room mate and his friends, which would have happened anyway, since he made it so obvious he was having a gay relationship. Word of mouth. He was not cautious enough, given that the stakes were so high.

Also, about forums:

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320377

Go read for yourself.

On October 01 2010 08:12 Lurker87 wrote:
The problem I have with selfishness is when it is irrefutably intruding on another's life, on another's choices. Sure, you might be biologically programmed to be selfish, to some extent, but acting so selfish, at the expense of someone else... you'd either have to be a complete moron, or a complete ass.

On October 01 2010 08:05 Blackou wrote:


A little bit out of subject but ...

As a man of Science, can you really explain your reasoning to go from

1)I believe in science, and therefore the decay of our bodies
to
2)" that is why i say we only have 1 life to live "
to
3) " i feel that makes it more valuable"

What is really your reasons to go from point 2 to point 3 exactly?

(I am agnostic too, totally agree with 1 and 2, just don t see any scientific reasoning in your last transition...opinions are great but ... )

Or asked another way, how do you define the "value of life " you are talking about?
( Don t take it bad,i am just curious really)

On October 01 2010 08:14 travis wrote:


yes, i agree completely

but this isn't a problem that's inherent to selfishness, it is a problem in poor decisionmaking

On October 01 2010 08:24 .risingdragoon wrote:
So I understand what the guy did.

What did the girl do exactly?

On October 01 2010 08:34 bontez wrote:


I'm also interested in knowing what the girl did exactly. The news articles I've read haven't specified anything about what she did, besides that it was in her room.

I just graduated from Rutgers last year and I know people who know her (one who is really close with her), but obviously they are biased (just like the news articles I've read are biased one direction).

Just curious if anyone saw a news article that specifies what the girl did.

On October 01 2010 08:40 .risingdragoon wrote:
He was already in her room when he found out about the gay sex, that was his twit. But she's also charged?

And both their names are released to the media. That's not responsible journalism. Now there's no way for either of them to stay at Rutger even if they get a flap on the wrist.

On October 01 2010 08:46 Murderotica wrote:

Yup. People are already protesting in person in front of the dorm where they live, and there is a "Black Friday" memorial walk on the street next to it. I would be surprised if they could get into any non-community college at this point, and they most certainly can't stay at Rutgers, if not due to administration's decisions, then due to the chance of harassment/violence in their direction. Like I said before, Rutgers is a very progressive school, and the gay community here is very strong. I fear for their safety tbh.

On October 01 2010 05:42 FabledIntegral wrote:
Something I always think about when stories like these come around; how would this be any different if it was a celebrity? Are they supposed to tolerate things like this because they are celebrities? What about sex tapes released? What about poor Emma Watson who had a crotch shot (edit: guys, this was like over a year ago...) like how many weeks after she turned 18? Has this happened to a gay celebrity yet? I feel like the entire media would go crazy and blow up the issue if a closet gay celebrity had sex transmitted over the web, with no one saying anything wrong was done (well there would be backlash if the celeb committed suicide, but not by the mere act of transmitting the web feed). But since it was a random teen that ended up committing suicide, there's an immense backlash.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be and what the roommate did (with a friend of his) was unacceptable. They even tried to do it a second time, as it says in the article. I think EVERYONE though should have a right to privacy, including celebrities, and don't get why the media is allowed to eat it up/papparazi shove cameras in their face nonstop. What do you guys think?

On October 01 2010 08:50 .risingdragoon wrote:


I think that's a bit over-reacting, no?

The suicide must've blindsided everybody, including the guy he had sex with.

On October 01 2010 08:35 Murderotica wrote:

She let him use her room. That is all. What I said was that she probably would have let him use her room even if there was no webcam plot, because they are good highschool friends.

On October 01 2010 08:57 GodIsNotHere wrote:

I get the feeling she wasn't that great of a friend...

On October 01 2010 08:57 GodIsNotHere wrote:

I get the feeling she wasn't that great of a friend...

On October 01 2010 08:24 Murderotica wrote:
Because we only have 1 life and no afterlife, be it hell heaven or reincarnation, this existence is our only conscience. I would do anything to continue being conscious of myself, my friends, my family, my surroundings. I would never take that away from myself, choosing to be nothing, absolutely nothing, than to be living. To be alive and conscious is such a unique thing that to throw it away is a disgrace. Christians can look forward to the afterlife - we have nothing to look forward to. Therefore this life is the most important thing we have.

On October 01 2010 06:07 Murderotica wrote:
I'm from Rutgers.. I heard this everywhere. I don't think they deserve manslaughter charges. There is a forum he was posting on (just us boys.com) and he seemed to be handling it well even on the day of the problem. So many people here are crying for blood from the 2 criminals but honestly wtf, who expected him to kill himself? If he was so candid about being gay he would not have brought dudes into his room. RIP.

EDIT: I can't believe he prefered to be gay and have the whole world know than be gay and have like 10 or so people know. Pretty stupid imo.

On October 01 2010 08:40 .risingdragoon wrote:
He was already in her room when he found out about the gay sex, that was his twit. But she's also charged?

And both their names are released to the media. That's not responsible journalism. Now there's no way for either of them to stay at Rutger even if they get a suspended sentence.

On October 01 2010 08:24 Murderotica wrote:

Because we only have 1 life and no afterlife, be it hell heaven or reincarnation, this existence is our only conscience. I would do anything to continue being conscious of myself, my friends, my family, my surroundings. I would never take that away from myself, choosing to be nothing, absolutely nothing, than to be living. To be alive and conscious is such a unique thing that to throw it away is a disgrace. Christians can look forward to the afterlife - we have nothing to look forward to. Therefore this life is the most important thing we have.

On October 01 2010 06:18 Murderotica wrote:

It does make sense. He shares a room with his room mate. Asking someone to leave their own fucking room so you can have gay sex... You expect not to be found out/revealed? I mean honestly it's just a lack of foresight/confidence on the part of the victim. He should have arranged other means. And afterwards, he should not have killed himself. Like poster above said to me, suicide is absolutely retarded. I have no compassion for people who kill themselves, especially over something so frivolous.

On October 01 2010 09:17 EchOne wrote:
What a sad situation... you would think after years after years dedicated ostensibly to learning, college-age people would afford each other at least a modicum of civility and respect.

On October 01 2010 09:07 AdrenalinG wrote:
Why is it not responsible journalism? They're adults, there is no legal or moral obligation to hide their names from the public at large.

On October 01 2010 09:20 AdrenalinG wrote:

Are you serious, you're blaming the victim?

Sort of like girls who wear provocative clothing deserve to get raped?

There's an obvious line between outting yourself as gay and having your gay sex secretly taped by your roommate by a hidden camera and streaming it over the internet and then twittering about it for other people to watch.

But you seem too obtuse to understand this distinction.

On October 01 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
There was a J-drama I watched that best sums up how hypocritical suicide is. A person is shown a video of their open heart surgery, especially how their heart is beating. The doctor remarks how ironic it is that while she is trying to throw her life away, that little heart is like a baby struggling to stay alive. And the thought that if you killed yourself you would be taking this baby down with you too-that perhaps is the feeling we need to convey to stupid angsty people.

On October 01 2010 09:32 .risingdragoon wrote:


So what if they're adults. Releasing names ruins lives, the law is suppose to deal out fair punishment, not the people who take it into their own hands.

You're not in the right mind to see the overall picture right now. Take a chill pill.

On October 01 2010 09:39 AdrenalinG wrote:


You obviously have no clue of why names are withheld for minors but fair game for legal adults.

"Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done"

On October 01 2010 09:38 kefkalives wrote:


Thank god i have your bullshit wisdom from a japanese drama series so that i better understand suicide and depression. I'm at a loss why you would flame someone committing suicide.

(edited for silliness)

On October 01 2010 09:44 Amnesia wrote:
You guys are missing the bigger picture. This guy took his OWN LIFE.

Like someone else has said, humiliation is something that we all go through. Okay...you made out with some dude on a webcam and a select few that you live with know you're gay. Do you think people care THAT much? To be honest, not really. Welcome to 2010. Does he not know that there are so many more people out there that have it much worse off that him and would do anything to be in his shoes?

And just because of that, he decides to jump off a bridge and end his own life just like that to hurt his friends, family, AND even the two that committed the crime. The media truly blows things out of proportion. I understand that the students that secretly streamed this went a bit too far and that they should get charged with invasion of privacy at most. Nothing more than that...anyone who thinks that they should get charged for manslaughter is just ridiculous.

On October 01 2010 07:53 travis wrote:
I don't think there are any problems that lie specifically in being selfish. It seems to me that in life that our primary obligation is to tend to our selves and to do what we want.

(this is in response to the whole "suicide is selfish" argument. My reply is "yes, but so what?") It's not our responsibility to protect others from indirect harm, that doesn't seem reasonable at all.

On October 01 2010 09:51 .risingdragoon wrote:
Yeah well if everybody checked out cus of facing hardship we'd still be living in caves.

He did go way overboard with the suicide. Not all suicide does. But this one has. The video and the twits are painful, but if we keep some perspective, suicide shouldn't even be on the first page of a list of things to do.

On October 01 2010 09:54 .risingdragoon wrote:
So why did the media release the names? That's the whole fucking point.

Now there's no way they can get a fair sentence.

On October 01 2010 10:00 Amnesia wrote:
I bet that this would not have been such a "hot" topic if the guy wasn't gay or committed suicide.

On October 01 2010 07:02 matjlav wrote:
Obviously the roommate was pretty fucked up to do this. Pretty ridiculous. The saddest part is there seems to have been some self-hatred going on in the kid for him to have taken his own life as a result; I feel like someone comfortable with himself would have handled the situation better.

But seriously, it's just weird that the roommate would want to do that.

On October 01 2010 07:31 Manifesto7 wrote:


Yeah I am sure she was just doing her homework and ignoring the whole thing.

On October 01 2010 10:05 .risingdragoon wrote:
WTF you talking about? That's NOT how it works. The media is suppose to restraint and let the law carry out the sentencing. Even more so in this age of internet where even some dude in Norway or China would know a regional incident like this, you be responsible and show restraint.

Don't destroy lives till the law has spoken.

On October 01 2010 10:32 Dfgj wrote:
Liability exists where the consequence of their actions is directly and logically progressed from the act, and foreseeable by a reasonable man in their situation. If you can prove that such a response (suicide) is a logical progression from them filming him, then you can charge them with manslaughter.

Probably not.

They'll still probably be hit with something, at least, but I doubt murder charges.

On October 01 2010 10:27 Caller wrote:
Bleh, sorry if my last post was a bit ragey. I had recently had to deal with some people contemplating suicide and I'm just sick of it and how people can proceed with a course of action that goes against every biological instinct. I just can't understand why people who have been given a great gift throw it away because they think that right at that moment it is bad. It's as spoiled as a child who breaks the game system his parents bought him because it wasn't the one he wanted.

There are very few exceptions to when I feel suicide is justified. For instance,
a) euthanasia, where people with terminal or unmanageable illnesses legally arrange their death to minimize their impact while trying to affect the world as soon as possible.
b) people who know that all that remains for them is a show trial and a perversion of justice, such as defeated military commanders/political leaders. Like for instance, Hitler committing suicide, or the Japanese idea of seppuku, I find to be understandable-as they see no other way to preserve their honor, rather than disgracing their bloodline
c) people whom have no outstanding obligations to anybody else provided they do it quietly
d) people who do it for a greater good. For instance, I would consider that monk who burned himself alive to have done something meaningful with his demise-he was able to assist in the ending of an unnecessary conflict by doing so.

This contrasts with other people who commit suicide, such as those that

a) jump in front of moving vehicles, traumatizing the operator for life
b) jump off buildings, traumatizing onlookers for life
c) take up room in hospitals by overdosing
d) be an attention whore about it. Especially if it involves a myspace or facebook message. This is basically the equivalent of streaking except that you die and its not funny.

Death in all cases should be as peaceful and minimizing the negative impact to others as much as possible. People don't exactly try to catch a terminal disease so they can have other people's sympathy. Why should instantaneous death be any different?

On October 01 2010 10:35 FabledIntegral wrote:


People can be in depression for like 20 years. When does the "everything is temporary" argument stop helping people?

On October 01 2010 10:38 Caller wrote:

Since you clearly didn't read what I wrote before you pulled up something that I already acknowledged I was raging about, I'm going to ignore this and ask you a question.

Do you think suicide is always justified?

On October 01 2010 10:31 BraveGhost wrote:



wishful thinking.. but the media doesn't work like this, the media is out for the biggest headline and the most information possible... they don't care who gets hurt, especially if the people getting hurt is the ones their trying to portray as criminals.. the media doesn't give us facts and let us make up our own minds.. the media tells us how to view the story and what we should feel about it, it's very hard to restrict the media on something like this.. ... they won't get pushed around not to say something that's not against the law unless it's a matter of national security or something.

On October 01 2010 10:43 FabledIntegral wrote:


I've actually followed this thread quite thoroughly and don't recall you saying anything of the sort, so can you just do me a favor and quote where you said that? Not saying you're wrong, just save me some time.

And no, I don't think it's always justified. I think you have to look at it on a case by case basis.

On October 01 2010 10:45 Caller wrote:

the first sentence of that post you quoted said "sorry if my post was ragey." I know depression is finnicky like that, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time, just about my silly friend who wanted to kill himself because his girlfriend broke up with him.

So, what would be some criteria for your "case by case" basis.

On October 01 2010 09:40 SaDGoWu wrote:
All i'm going to say is that the idea of a dormitory with shared rooms is the worst thing that could ever happen. The majority of the population does/will do these kinds of stupid things, so it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to share a living space, or for that matter a bedroom with some random person who just so happens to be going to your college as statistically speaking, hes probably an idiot, and a college education does little if anything to fix that.

Also can someone please explain to me how you came up with the idea that suicide is selfish and the student was short-sighted? Just because you would rather live 50+ years doesn't mean he would, your kind of applying a judgement about your own desires and assuming that your desire must be the correct one and that anyone who thinks differently surely hasn't thought this through and is short sighted. That kind of sounds pretty self centered to me.

On October 01 2010 12:55 Vei wrote:How is suicide selfish?

On October 01 2010 11:57 matjlav wrote:


Sorry, but... there's really no doubt that the kid overreacted to commit suicide. A few people know he's gay; some freaks that thought it was a good idea watched him having sex. These simply aren't things that you can't get over. I'm pretty sure that some form of self-hatred about his homosexuality played into his decision.

I mean... it's not like he was on national television. Naturally he would probably hate his roommate for the rest of the year, but it's not like no one's ever had to deal with that. Maybe his family would have been mad or something. I obviously don't know every detail of his life. But anyone that commits suicide jsut because of what some bigoted assholes think is making a mistake.

On October 01 2010 12:55 Vei wrote:
No one suicides to become a martyr, they suicide because they are suffering (mostly). Islamic martyrs or whatever, sure that's obviously lame (any religion is).

On October 01 2010 12:59 reprise wrote:


Just because you want to die, doesn't mean other people want you to.

On October 01 2010 12:59 reprise wrote:


Just because you want to die, doesn't mean other people want you to.

On October 01 2010 13:14 Kurr wrote:


Because other people want you to live, doesn't mean you want to. And you're the one suffering.

See, it works both way. I'm not trying to be an asshole but I really hate that argument. No one thinks : "Ha! I'm going to kill myself and make people sad!".

I'm sure it's quite the opposite. People letting go of their suicidal thoughts because they think of the pain it would cause their family. However, sometimes people are in shock for one reason or another and they either don't think about it at all or they're at a point where they're willing to do it despite that.

Reading some of the posts in this thread is really disheartening. It's like some of you think that people kill themselves to mess around with their family's emotions and you consider that selfish. Suicide is NOT about you. It's about the person who does the act. You have no idea what state of mind a person is in when they commit suicide. Neither do I. I can imagine it and I assume others can as well because we've all had times were nothing is going right and it slips our minds, but not to the degree of someone actually commiting suicide. What seems like nothing to us can be devastating to someone else, clearly demonstrated by the lack of empathy in this thread.



This post is not only accurate, but strongly felt. (and also accurate because of that strong feeling). In a forum like the one we are privilged to have on TL.net, I think we can all afford to brave enough to express the views held above.

I'm not saying that no one has ever killed themselves to inflict emotional pain on other people but those are an extremely small minority. There have been 2 suicides in my family and I never once thought they did it because they were selfish. Thinking someone is selfish because of suicide is such a distant reaction, I can't imagine someone feeling that way about someone close to them commiting suicide; especially if they know the reasons.

On October 01 2010 13:14 Kurr wrote:


Because other people want you to live, doesn't mean you want to. And you're the one suffering.

See, it works both way. I'm not trying to be an asshole but I really hate that argument. No one thinks : "Ha! I'm going to kill myself and make people sad!".

I'm sure it's quite the opposite. People letting go of their suicidal thoughts because they think of the pain it would cause their family. However, sometimes people are in shock for one reason or another and they either don't think about it at all or they're at a point where they're willing to do it despite that.

Reading some of the posts in this thread is really disheartening. It's like some of you think that people kill themselves to mess around with their family's emotions and you consider that selfish. Suicide is NOT about you. It's about the person who does the act. You have no idea what state of mind a person is in when they commit suicide. Neither do I. I can imagine it and I assume others can as well because we've all had times were nothing is going right and it slips our minds, but not to the degree of someone actually commiting suicide. What seems like nothing to us can be devastating to someone else, clearly demonstrated by the lack of empathy in this thread.

I'm not saying that no one has ever killed themselves to inflict emotional pain on other people but those are an extremely small minority. There have been 2 suicides in my family and I never once thought they did it because they were selfish. Thinking someone is selfish because of suicide is such a distant reaction, I can't imagine someone feeling that way about someone close to them commiting suicide; especially if they know the reasons.