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On April 23 2012 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:04 ketomai wrote:
I can't believe you are trying to downplay an elbow to the head. If I had to seriously hurt someone without a foreign object, I'm pretty sure elbow to the head would be near the top of the list for things I would choose.
It's really, really dangerous and honestly I don't think being banned for most of the playoffs would be uncalled for. I'm not downplaying anything more than the rest of you are blowing it out of proportion. What Robin Lopez did to Blake Griffin two days ago was MUCH more dangerous than what Artest just did to Harden, and I don't even think he was suspended at all for that. You're going to try and justify a straight ban of Artest from the playoffs when Lopez wasn't even suspended for that foul? Get real.
I dunno why you'd consider a flagrant on someone driving to the basket to ever be as egregious as just decking someone
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On April 23 2012 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:
What Robin Lopez did to Blake Griffin two days ago was MUCH more dangerous than what Artest just did to Harden
Get real.
Are you out of your mind?
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On April 23 2012 08:15 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 08:04 ketomai wrote:
I can't believe you are trying to downplay an elbow to the head. If I had to seriously hurt someone without a foreign object, I'm pretty sure elbow to the head would be near the top of the list for things I would choose.
It's really, really dangerous and honestly I don't think being banned for most of the playoffs would be uncalled for. I'm not downplaying anything more than the rest of you are blowing it out of proportion. What Robin Lopez did to Blake Griffin two days ago was MUCH more dangerous than what Artest just did to Harden, and I don't even think he was suspended at all for that. You're going to try and justify a straight ban of Artest from the playoffs when Lopez wasn't even suspended for that foul? Get real. I dunno why you'd consider a flagrant on someone driving to the basket to ever be as egregious as just decking someone
When you consider the risk of serious injury is just as if not higher than a deck it's an easy thing to consider.
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On April 23 2012 08:13 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:10 ghrur wrote:On April 23 2012 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 07:50 ghrur wrote:On April 23 2012 07:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 07:43 ranshaked wrote:
Artest should be banned from the nba for that shit. He could have killed harden if he hits him a few inches higher. That's a disgrace. Especially with his past, it's time for him to be banned Except he didn't and Harden was cleared to come back in after halftime. He wasn't hurt. Can't ban someone when the guy he decked was good to come back in in the same game. BTW. LAKERS BABY!!!! JORDAN HILL DEVIN EBANKS STEVE BLAKE PAU GASOL AND KOBE MOTHERFUCKING BRYANT!!! YOU GUYS WERE GODS OF THE BASKETBALL COURT TODAY. Good point! Let's just wait until he DOES give someone a serious head injury or concussion! Keep them elbows flying World Peace! Look like some other people have said already. What Artest did wasn't anywhere near as bad as some other fouls that have already occurred this season. Blake Griffin has been on the receiving end of at least three hard flagrant 2s that have been worse and more dangerous than what Artest did to Harden today and he's still playing and people are telling him to toughen up. You want to start banning players from the playoffs just because of their history? Get out of here with that shit. A foul is a foul is a hard foul that gets punished according to the rulebook and the NBA makes the decisions. Love got away with a 2 game suspension, Artest deserves no more than that. It doesn't matter what other people did. An elbow to the head is a fucking elbow to the head. Make that an INTENTIONAL elbow to the head which YOU tried to call as James Harden's fault. Huh, makes me wonder who really needs the reality check. And history matters on how harsh the punishment is. You don't get life imprisonment for stealing one time, but repeated offenses can lead to that punishment in certain states. The NBA should be no different. Artest has a history of legal problems and violence problems. He is a danger to other players on the court, and he's proven it time and time again. He deserves to be punished harshly this time. Some playoff suspension should be minimal imo. On April 23 2012 08:05 DystopiaX wrote:On April 23 2012 07:59 Ace wrote:
Ok it seems you are having trouble understanding.
What someone else did is irrelevant here. Artest committed a flagrant foul that was an ELBOW TO THE HEAD.
ETA: And I never said anything about banning him. Only you have to treat everyone in the league fairly, and giving Artest a harsher penalty than other players who have had lighter sentences for worse penalties isn't fair. Ofc what he did was wrong, but suggesting much worse penalties when other players get off with less would be unfair. That's all anyone is saying. Fairly is not equally. Artest has a history of this crap. Other players don't... yet. Once they do, I'm all for harsher punishment. Otherwise, we might get a Saints team in the NBA. So you're asking the NBA to make up special punishment for Artest JUST based on his history. That's unlikely to happen. I hope you realize that.
Are you seriously still insinuating that history doesn't matter?
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On April 23 2012 08:20 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:13 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 08:10 ghrur wrote:On April 23 2012 07:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 07:50 ghrur wrote:On April 23 2012 07:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 07:43 ranshaked wrote:
Artest should be banned from the nba for that shit. He could have killed harden if he hits him a few inches higher. That's a disgrace. Especially with his past, it's time for him to be banned Except he didn't and Harden was cleared to come back in after halftime. He wasn't hurt. Can't ban someone when the guy he decked was good to come back in in the same game. BTW. LAKERS BABY!!!! JORDAN HILL DEVIN EBANKS STEVE BLAKE PAU GASOL AND KOBE MOTHERFUCKING BRYANT!!! YOU GUYS WERE GODS OF THE BASKETBALL COURT TODAY. Good point! Let's just wait until he DOES give someone a serious head injury or concussion! Keep them elbows flying World Peace! Look like some other people have said already. What Artest did wasn't anywhere near as bad as some other fouls that have already occurred this season. Blake Griffin has been on the receiving end of at least three hard flagrant 2s that have been worse and more dangerous than what Artest did to Harden today and he's still playing and people are telling him to toughen up. You want to start banning players from the playoffs just because of their history? Get out of here with that shit. A foul is a foul is a hard foul that gets punished according to the rulebook and the NBA makes the decisions. Love got away with a 2 game suspension, Artest deserves no more than that. It doesn't matter what other people did. An elbow to the head is a fucking elbow to the head. Make that an INTENTIONAL elbow to the head which YOU tried to call as James Harden's fault. Huh, makes me wonder who really needs the reality check. And history matters on how harsh the punishment is. You don't get life imprisonment for stealing one time, but repeated offenses can lead to that punishment in certain states. The NBA should be no different. Artest has a history of legal problems and violence problems. He is a danger to other players on the court, and he's proven it time and time again. He deserves to be punished harshly this time. Some playoff suspension should be minimal imo. On April 23 2012 08:05 DystopiaX wrote:On April 23 2012 07:59 Ace wrote:
Ok it seems you are having trouble understanding.
What someone else did is irrelevant here. Artest committed a flagrant foul that was an ELBOW TO THE HEAD.
ETA: And I never said anything about banning him. Only you have to treat everyone in the league fairly, and giving Artest a harsher penalty than other players who have had lighter sentences for worse penalties isn't fair. Ofc what he did was wrong, but suggesting much worse penalties when other players get off with less would be unfair. That's all anyone is saying. Fairly is not equally. Artest has a history of this crap. Other players don't... yet. Once they do, I'm all for harsher punishment. Otherwise, we might get a Saints team in the NBA. So you're asking the NBA to make up special punishment for Artest JUST based on his history. That's unlikely to happen. I hope you realize that. Are you seriously still insinuating that history doesn't matter?
It's not up for me to decide at the end of the day is it?
I'm just confident based on the NBA's track record with stuff like this that the punishment will be no more than a few games suspension. It doesn't matter what I think, I'm making my argument based on what the NBA has done in the past or THEIR history if you'd like.
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On April 23 2012 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:59 Ace wrote:
Ok it seems you are having trouble understanding.
What someone else did is irrelevant here. Artest committed a flagrant foul that was an ELBOW TO THE HEAD.
ETA: And I never said anything about banning him. I'm not saying that doesn't warrant punishment. It does. I'm not arguing against that at all. But with the way the NBA currently punishes players for inappropriate conduct on the court, a ban is completely unjustified (especially when Harden was cleared to return in the second half.) Artest will get a maximum of a 4 game suspension and a hefty fine.
The NBA hasn't had to deal with another guy like Ron Artest. Take away your Lakers bias and look at what he just did. He knew exactly what he was doing. He just straight up elbowed a guy in the head. Don't try and look at what other guys have done. None of them are Ron Artest. None of them raced up into the stands and started punching fans. None of them flipped out and destroyed a tv camera Madison Square Garden. Oh lets not forget how he clotheslined JJ Barea last year in the playoffs. Ron Artest has been suspended 12 times by the NBA before this event. Seriously, the NBA needs to come down hard on him. He should not be in the playoffs.
And Harden was cleared to play, but he started experiencing a headache and had to go back to the locker room. And considering how often concussions are misdiagnosed, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that he does in fact have one.
This is absolutely disgusting:
![[image loading]](http://www.miscupload.com/upload/486237043100042677136625.gif)
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On April 23 2012 08:17 roadrunner_sc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:
What Robin Lopez did to Blake Griffin two days ago was MUCH more dangerous than what Artest just did to Harden
Get real. Are you out of your mind?
A hack to the neck IN MIDAIR isn't as dangerous as an elbow to the face?
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This isnt going anywhere. Even if Artest is banned through all of round 1 it is likely not going to matter since he will be back for real games later. I dont even care what the punishment is tbh. Unless hes banned for playoffs - id love that obviously.
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shameful to the sport, seriously.
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On April 23 2012 08:17 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:15 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2012 08:10 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 08:04 ketomai wrote:
I can't believe you are trying to downplay an elbow to the head. If I had to seriously hurt someone without a foreign object, I'm pretty sure elbow to the head would be near the top of the list for things I would choose.
It's really, really dangerous and honestly I don't think being banned for most of the playoffs would be uncalled for. I'm not downplaying anything more than the rest of you are blowing it out of proportion. What Robin Lopez did to Blake Griffin two days ago was MUCH more dangerous than what Artest just did to Harden, and I don't even think he was suspended at all for that. You're going to try and justify a straight ban of Artest from the playoffs when Lopez wasn't even suspended for that foul? Get real. I dunno why you'd consider a flagrant on someone driving to the basket to ever be as egregious as just decking someone When you consider the risk of serious injury is just as if not higher than a deck it's an easy thing to consider.
If I were commissioner I would make a distinction between a dirty foul and something that is practically felonious. Players are gonna get injured no matter what you do so you should at least put a good amount of attention into making sure people aren't making a disgrace out of your league.
"Chance of injury" shouldn't even be a factor there. You get suspended even for whiffing on a punch and a player has a 0% chance of getting injured from a punch that doesn't connect. And that's the way it should be.
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On April 23 2012 08:28 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 07:59 Ace wrote:
Ok it seems you are having trouble understanding.
What someone else did is irrelevant here. Artest committed a flagrant foul that was an ELBOW TO THE HEAD.
ETA: And I never said anything about banning him. I'm not saying that doesn't warrant punishment. It does. I'm not arguing against that at all. But with the way the NBA currently punishes players for inappropriate conduct on the court, a ban is completely unjustified (especially when Harden was cleared to return in the second half.) Artest will get a maximum of a 4 game suspension and a hefty fine. The NBA hasn't had to deal with another guy like Ron Artest. Take away your Lakers bias and look at what he just did. He knew exactly what he was doing. He just straight up elbowed a guy in the head. Don't try and look at what other guys have done. None of them are Ron Artest. None of them raced up into the stands and started punching fans. None of them flipped out and destroyed a tv camera Madison Square Garden. Oh lets not forget how he clotheslined JJ Barea last year in the playoffs. Ron Artest has been suspended 12 times by the NBA before this event. Seriously, the NBA needs to come down hard on him. He should not be in the playoffs. And Harden was cleared to play, but he started experiencing a headache and had to go back to the locker room. And considering how often concussions are misdiagnosed, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that he does in fact have one. This is absolutely disgusting:
Well that's your opinion and your entitled to it. You obviously despise Ron Artest and you want this to be the final straw so you can see him banned for good. That's a bias so obviously strong that there's really nothing anyone can say to you that would convince you otherwise, that much is clear.
Thankfully the NBA has a cooler head. It's their call. Not yours. Not mine.
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Vindicare, you're a knowledgable, nice guy with passion for his team, but seriously your Lakers bias is in overload here. Artest is going to get a long ban for that. Maybe, maybe not the whole year, but he'll def be missing Playoff games.
That was as bad as cheap shots get.
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I don't think Vindicare is arguing that he shouldn't be suspended for several games, but I think he's responding to people who think he should be suspended for the whole playoffs/into next season.
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On April 23 2012 08:36 RowdierBob wrote:
Vindicare, you're a knowledgable, nice guy with passion for his team, but seriously your Lakers bias is in overload here. Artest is going to get a long ban for that. Maybe, maybe not the whole year, but he'll def be missing Playoff games.
That was as bad as cheap shots get.
I'm not saying he won't but long for the NBA is no more than a single playoff series.
If he's banned for the first round I'll consider that harsh but I won't argue with it. What's a lot more likely for a foul like this is a few games in the 2-5 range.
If he's banned for the entire playoffs for that, that's an unprecedented level of punishment in this NBA, that's what I'd have a problem with, more because of unprecedence more than anything else.
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And for what it's worth, I doubt Ron Ron meant to cause as much damage as he did. He was clearly fired up and the red mist took over. It was a shocking cheap shot but from the footage I'll give Ron Ron some benfit of the doubt.
Lifetime suspension is silly, but I imagine he'll get around 10 games. It won't be a good look for the NBA if they're perceived to go too soft on him.
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On April 23 2012 08:28 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 23 2012 07:59 Ace wrote:
Ok it seems you are having trouble understanding.
What someone else did is irrelevant here. Artest committed a flagrant foul that was an ELBOW TO THE HEAD.
ETA: And I never said anything about banning him. I'm not saying that doesn't warrant punishment. It does. I'm not arguing against that at all. But with the way the NBA currently punishes players for inappropriate conduct on the court, a ban is completely unjustified (especially when Harden was cleared to return in the second half.) Artest will get a maximum of a 4 game suspension and a hefty fine. The NBA hasn't had to deal with another guy like Ron Artest. Take away your Lakers bias and look at what he just did. He knew exactly what he was doing. He just straight up elbowed a guy in the head. Don't try and look at what other guys have done. None of them are Ron Artest. None of them raced up into the stands and started punching fans. None of them flipped out and destroyed a tv camera Madison Square Garden. Oh lets not forget how he clotheslined JJ Barea last year in the playoffs. Ron Artest has been suspended 12 times by the NBA before this event. Seriously, the NBA needs to come down hard on him. He should not be in the playoffs. And Harden was cleared to play, but he started experiencing a headache and had to go back to the locker room. And considering how often concussions are misdiagnosed, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that he does in fact have one. This is absolutely disgusting:
Uhh well having a history is nice and all, but its not like hes getting of scott free for his "felonies". 5-8 games is more than enough. He hopefully hasnt hit him hard enough to break anything or take him out long time. If your punishing for intending to do worse thats a bit speculative. Im not saying history doesnt matter, but please dont make it out like everytime hes done something wrong he hasnt taken punishment. And frankly if the NBA hasnt found it neccessary to extend punishments based on history during his previous 12 suspensions. I dont see why theyd randomely decide to do it now. I dont think people were any less angry the previous times he did this shit.
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On April 23 2012 08:44 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:36 RowdierBob wrote:
Vindicare, you're a knowledgable, nice guy with passion for his team, but seriously your Lakers bias is in overload here. Artest is going to get a long ban for that. Maybe, maybe not the whole year, but he'll def be missing Playoff games.
That was as bad as cheap shots get. I'm not saying he won't but long for the NBA is no more than a single playoff series. If he's banned for the first round I'll consider that harsh but I won't argue with it. If he's banned for the entire playoffs for that, that's an unprecedented level of punishment in this NBA, that's what I'd have a problem with, more because of unprecedence more than anything else.
No it isn't at least ten times players have been suspended for at least ten games for similar incidents including Carmelo Anthony.
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The problem is it looks really bad. It wasn't a hard foul or anything basketball related--it looks like a thuggish cheap shot from a guy who has a reputation as being a thuggish player.
The NBA doesn't want to look soft here. Whatever suspension is dished out has to be sufficient enough so they can say they won't "tolerate" this kind of foul play. I think he'll be suspended for first round at least, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's given the rest of the season.
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Going to a bit more of a lighthearted topic.
Kobe on guarding Westbrook.
He cooked us last time... I figured if he was going to cook us he was going to have to cook me
That's one of the things I love about that man. If he's able to step up for a defensive assignment in a critical game he never shys away from it. Westbrook was held to an abysmal shooting percentage today and defending him was a key part of the Laker victory.
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On April 23 2012 08:47 RowdierBob wrote:
The problem is it looks really bad. It wasn't a hard foul or anything basketball related--it looks like a thuggish cheap shot from a guy who has a reputation as being a thuggish player.
The NBA doesn't want to look soft here. Whatever suspension is dished out has to be sufficient enough so they can say they won't "tolerate" this kind of foul play. I think he'll be suspended for first round at least, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's given the rest of the season.
Yeah, I'm not that big a basketball fan and I'm a bit horrified by that gif. The fuck happened? I assume he scores, he pumps his arms, then completely randomly decides to swing an elbow at the head of a guy he's not even looking at? This a joke?
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EPT
