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NBA Regular Season 2011-2012 - Page 150

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 148 149 150 151 152 347 Next
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
February 18 2012 23:33 GMT
#2981
dafuq. why do the bulls always lose when there game is early.
Woo Jung Ho
VENDIZ
Profile Joined October 2010
1575 Posts
February 18 2012 23:34 GMT
#2982
..so does Kris Humphries, he killed us today! Hopefully this was our only Hawks' game for the future, this game just horrible on all accounts
SaGe fighting!!~~~~~~
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-19 00:13:11
February 19 2012 00:10 GMT
#2983
On February 18 2012 21:26 x2fst wrote:
what about when you said fg% is a more useful metric than ts%, that's pretty lol if you actually adhere to your stated aim


It is. When you're evaluating the top players in the league, you don't use TS% because then guys like Kevin Martin and Chauncey Billups get overrated. FG% is a far, far more indicative metric of where you'll find guys that will score consistently well. If you look at the top players in the NBA over the last ~30 years just about every single one of them have high FG%. This is a little lax because I don't feel like lecturing but it also takes into account rebounding and the ability to limit fast breaks of the opposing team. TS% doesn't tell you anything you'd want to know when it comes to who you'd really want as your #1 option or who is a better scorer between 2 players of similar position.

On February 19 2012 03:50 Skullflower wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2012 15:37 Ace wrote:
If you want to see why Ric Bucher is usually laughed at listen to this conversation:

http://www.790theticket.com/podcast_lebatard.aspx

Choose the latest podcast from today (4/17). Go to the 80 minute mark for around when Bucher starts talking.


I basically realized how much of a joke he was when he said Russell Westbrook > KD. I knew he was a joke before that but that was just like a whole new level of stupidity.


I remember that one. Thing is he was wrong, but not too far off in a way. He could have clarified it by saying Westbrook is almost as valuable to OKC as Durant, but when he said he was flat out better I was like o.0?!
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
VENDIZ
Profile Joined October 2010
1575 Posts
February 19 2012 00:59 GMT
#2984
On February 19 2012 09:10 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2012 21:26 x2fst wrote:
what about when you said fg% is a more useful metric than ts%, that's pretty lol if you actually adhere to your stated aim


It is. When you're evaluating the top players in the league, you don't use TS% because then guys like Kevin Martin and Chauncey Billups get overrated. FG% is a far, far more indicative metric of where you'll find guys that will score consistently well. If you look at the top players in the NBA over the last ~30 years just about every single one of them have high FG%. This is a little lax because I don't feel like lecturing but it also takes into account rebounding and the ability to limit fast breaks of the opposing team. TS% doesn't tell you anything you'd want to know when it comes to who you'd really want as your #1 option or who is a better scorer between 2 players of similar position.

Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 03:50 Skullflower wrote:
On February 18 2012 15:37 Ace wrote:
If you want to see why Ric Bucher is usually laughed at listen to this conversation:

http://www.790theticket.com/podcast_lebatard.aspx

Choose the latest podcast from today (4/17). Go to the 80 minute mark for around when Bucher starts talking.


I basically realized how much of a joke he was when he said Russell Westbrook > KD. I knew he was a joke before that but that was just like a whole new level of stupidity.


I remember that one. Thing is he was wrong, but not too far off in a way. He could have clarified it by saying Westbrook is almost as valuable to OKC as Durant, but when he said he was flat out better I was like o.0?!


Just a quick question regarding the FG% (well, it's somewhat related);

Do you think Granger deserved to be an All-Star ahead of Pierce, Iggy & Deng? (I know I don't, and some of it is due to his 37% FG over the season)
SaGe fighting!!~~~~~~
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
February 19 2012 01:54 GMT
#2985
I agree. Granger's terrible shooting has been killer. Deng or Iggy should be starting over Melo but that would only be if we were discounting the fan vote.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 19 2012 02:36 GMT
#2986
Honestly, Dan LeRetard is not a good analyst. Unless you are into people who are all over Miami's collective dick.
Freeeeeeedom
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
February 19 2012 03:27 GMT
#2987
Dear CP3,

Thank you.

Regards,
Spurs fans
manicsquare
Profile Joined June 2010
176 Posts
February 19 2012 03:41 GMT
#2988
Grizzlies now have one four in a row with the last 2 games coming off of putbacks in the last few seconds. If they keep this up i'm going to have a heart attack.
x2fst
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
1272 Posts
February 19 2012 04:16 GMT
#2989
correlation with offensive efficiency consistently higher with ts% compared to fg%. opponent ts% is also has a higher correlation with defensive efficiency than fg%, again this is true every year. (http://hoopdata.com has the data for this)

hard to fast break off made free throws, and the effect of long rebounds isn't enough to overcome this impact because possessions ending in long 2s carry less turnover risk than drives/cuts for close shots. live ball turnovers are far more costly to a team's d than missed jumpers. offensive rebounding is the next most important offensive stat that can negatively impact d. long rebounds really don't matter that much at all. there's been a lot written about these in the various blogs, should be able to find them through a little googling

for example: if dwight howard shot 90% from the line he would score, ~4 more pts per game on the same amount of possessions. the best teams in the nba outscore their opponents by like 5-7ppg generally. 4ppg is HUGE over the course of a season. fg% would tell you nothing about this effect, whereas ts% would reflect his drastically improved efficiency. if dwights fg% were to increase, ts% would take it into account in terms of it's actual effect on his production. ts% has it's limitations as every stat does, but fg% is far more flawed and less relevant almost every circumstance

if you have some data to back up your claims i'm interested in reading it though
muda, is a crime for me to wear a shirt, cos I is so good lookin
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 19 2012 04:50 GMT
#2990
On February 19 2012 13:16 x2fst wrote:
correlation with offensive efficiency consistently higher with ts% compared to fg%. opponent ts% is also has a higher correlation with defensive efficiency than fg%, again this is true every year. (http://hoopdata.com has the data for this)

hard to fast break off made free throws, and the effect of long rebounds isn't enough to overcome this impact because possessions ending in long 2s carry less turnover risk than drives/cuts for close shots. live ball turnovers are far more costly to a team's d than missed jumpers. offensive rebounding is the next most important offensive stat that can negatively impact d. long rebounds really don't matter that much at all. there's been a lot written about these in the various blogs, should be able to find them through a little googling

for example: if dwight howard shot 90% from the line he would score, ~4 more pts per game on the same amount of possessions. the best teams in the nba outscore their opponents by like 5-7ppg generally. 4ppg is HUGE over the course of a season. fg% would tell you nothing about this effect, whereas ts% would reflect his drastically improved efficiency. if dwights fg% were to increase, ts% would take it into account in terms of it's actual effect on his production. ts% has it's limitations as every stat does, but fg% is far more flawed and less relevant almost every circumstance

if you have some data to back up your claims i'm interested in reading it though



One problem with NBA box scores is the scoring of shooting while fouling. Its very hard to separate them.
Freeeeeeedom
parazice
Profile Joined March 2011
Thailand5517 Posts
February 19 2012 07:14 GMT
#2991
WTF Bulls lost to Net !!!
>.<
x2fst
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
1272 Posts
February 19 2012 07:42 GMT
#2992
On February 19 2012 13:50 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2012 13:16 x2fst wrote:
correlation with offensive efficiency consistently higher with ts% compared to fg%. opponent ts% is also has a higher correlation with defensive efficiency than fg%, again this is true every year. (http://hoopdata.com has the data for this)

hard to fast break off made free throws, and the effect of long rebounds isn't enough to overcome this impact because possessions ending in long 2s carry less turnover risk than drives/cuts for close shots. live ball turnovers are far more costly to a team's d than missed jumpers. offensive rebounding is the next most important offensive stat that can negatively impact d. long rebounds really don't matter that much at all. there's been a lot written about these in the various blogs, should be able to find them through a little googling

for example: if dwight howard shot 90% from the line he would score, ~4 more pts per game on the same amount of possessions. the best teams in the nba outscore their opponents by like 5-7ppg generally. 4ppg is HUGE over the course of a season. fg% would tell you nothing about this effect, whereas ts% would reflect his drastically improved efficiency. if dwights fg% were to increase, ts% would take it into account in terms of it's actual effect on his production. ts% has it's limitations as every stat does, but fg% is far more flawed and less relevant almost every circumstance

if you have some data to back up your claims i'm interested in reading it though



One problem with NBA box scores is the scoring of shooting while fouling. Its very hard to separate them.
what do you mean? if you're saying it's hard to assess the value of foul shooting then ts% does just that pretty well
muda, is a crime for me to wear a shirt, cos I is so good lookin
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
February 19 2012 09:28 GMT
#2993
ts% definitely has its flaws. Honestly, you don't need a high free throw % to be efficient. Look at what shaq did with a 50% FT % but meanwhile his fg and ppg were incredibly high. Even if you make 1 of 2 and get to the line consistently you'll still do pretty well due to just points per possession efficiency as well as getting other people in foul trouble leading to getting better free throw shooters to the line. 50% at the free throw line is typically more efficient than just having a possession.
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-19 17:08:50
February 19 2012 17:08 GMT
#2994
@ x2fst:: The problem is you are trying to label TS% as some kind of absolute "statistic" to determine how good a player is, or trying to say that TS% is a much more complete formula (and it is)and that is not what was in context. Statistics are used in basketball to help understand occurrences/situations, not be the absolute truth.

So Ace isn't saying FG% is a better statistic than TS% for determining overall shooting impact in a statistical sense (b/c it isn't), he is saying it is more useful in comparing players we have in mind and want to compare them. If I say " ya West shot 45% from the field while taking 20 shots, shot 5-6 from the line, while taking no 3-point shots", that description would be much more useful in comparing him to player x than saying " ya West TS% was 52".
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
February 19 2012 17:20 GMT
#2995
Yes, the idea of compounding everything into a single statistic is stupid, especially when it hides important nuances. Fucking Hollinger & co. They're trying to follow baseball's lead, except baseball did it with the help of actual statisticians. It's like NA players copying Korean build orders, without understanding why.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Riskr
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany403 Posts
February 19 2012 17:39 GMT
#2996
So hows the actual percentage of The Matrix shutting down Linsanity?
Need stats,otherwise i predict a 100% chance of not more than 15pts!
Ain´t no mind to the battles you´ve won!
buickskylark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada664 Posts
February 19 2012 17:51 GMT
#2997
Over/Under 7.5 Turn Overs?
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
February 19 2012 18:28 GMT
#2998
On February 20 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote:
Yes, the idea of compounding everything into a single statistic is stupid, especially when it hides important nuances. Fucking Hollinger & co. They're trying to follow baseball's lead, except baseball did it with the help of actual statisticians. It's like NA players copying Korean build orders, without understanding why.


Haha. The analogy is dead on.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
February 19 2012 18:38 GMT
#2999
No turnovers during the first half. JR Smith doing work.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
February 19 2012 18:40 GMT
#3000
Novak really should have hard fouled Odom

not like Novak will get a chance to get into foul trouble
E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
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