On February 15 2012 14:33 Jibba wrote: Thinking about it, I think the Knicks would be better off without Carmelo. I don't think he ever fit with that team/system and the results/problems were obvious. The Lin/Chandler combo has looked pretty comfortable and Amare is Amare. He may never learn to play defense and he's not that explosive anymore, but he'll fit in and is pretty versatile scoring threat.
So shop Carmelo for some actual depth, so Lin doesn't have to play 45 minutes a game on back to back nights.
The roster they had last year + Melo would have been better. But there is no way in hell Jeremy Lin + Amar'e + Chandler is even going to be more than a blip in the East. Without Melo, that team is barely a playoff team.
It's not a playoff team with him. Just a dysfunctional mess. I don't think Carmelo will ever work well with Amare, regardless of PG. Lin isn't the answer but he's a good excuse to retool while remaining decent. Even if the current group learns to play together with Melo, they're still never going to get anywhere. And them developing teamwork seems like a remote possibility.
On February 15 2012 15:12 Vindicare605 wrote: We had a Ron Artest sighting today. Metta World Peace was on vacation and the animal that was Ron Artest got a chance to show himself.
Wish we could see that more often. Lakers beat the Hawks.
What disturbs me most about the Ron Artest name change is when people say "Metta World Peace" in a non-mocking manner.
Is there some sort of legal action that I don't know about? Because if I was an announcer I would still be calling them Chad Johnson and Ron Artest, and hell if I would say "Metta World Peace" over and over. Maybe I could settle on calling him "Peace" if he wasn't just fat Ron Artest.
On February 15 2012 15:12 Vindicare605 wrote: We had a Ron Artest sighting today. Metta World Peace was on vacation and the animal that was Ron Artest got a chance to show himself.
Wish we could see that more often. Lakers beat the Hawks.
What disturbs me most about the Ron Artest name change is when people say "Metta World Peace" in a non-mocking manner.
Is there some sort of legal action that I don't know about? Because if I was an announcer I would still be calling them Chad Johnson and Ron Artest, and hell if I would say "Metta World Peace" over and over. Maybe I could settle on calling him "Peace" if he wasn't just fat Ron Artest.
Not sure if I understood your post correctly, but if I did; yes, Ron Artest changed his name (by law, I guess would be the correct way to put it) to Metta World Peace..
.. if I recall correctly his reasoning at the time was "the world needed more peace" :D
You guys forget that Carmelo is a winner, clutch, etc. Freshman year he wins the NCAA tournament and earns the tournament version of the MVP. He has a complete game. Basically everything people complain about Lebron, Carmelo has it right.
You know what stings as a torontonian? Apparently the raptors and knicks were in talks about trading anthony carter for jeremy lin a few weeks ago...
On February 15 2012 16:54 igotmyown wrote: You guys forget that Carmelo is a winner, clutch, etc. Freshman year he wins the NCAA tournament and earns the tournament version of the MVP. He has a complete game. Basically everything people complain about Lebron, Carmelo has it right.
On February 15 2012 17:31 DoomsVille wrote: You know what stings as a torontonian? Apparently the raptors and knicks were in talks about trading anthony carter for jeremy lin a few weeks ago...
On February 15 2012 16:54 igotmyown wrote: You guys forget that Carmelo is a winner, clutch, etc. Freshman year he wins the NCAA tournament and earns the tournament version of the MVP. He has a complete game. Basically everything people complain about Lebron, Carmelo has it right.
Can't tell if serious or trolling...
probably wouldn't have turned out the same way though.
How does that suck for people from Toronto? He would've been behind Calderon, Barbosa and Bayless, it isn't like he would've exploded into the player he is today on Toronto.
Also there is no way that NYK get worse when Melo gets healthy, wtf are you thinking. This isn't Javale McGee, or DaMarcus Cousins, this is Carmelo "fuckin" Anthony, who has worked with scoring PG's before (hello AI) as well as a pass first PG (hello Chauncey) not to mention he is a super efficient scorer, and like 3 years removed from a WCF appearance, in which he led his team there, and a couple games removed from a finals appearance (which, in my opinion they would've won vs Orlando).
I don't see how a lineup on the floor of Lin, Fields/Shumpert, Melo, Amare, Chandler would be worse than any other lineup that a Melo trade could possibly net. Who are they going to go after? The only possible thing I can think of is a reneg on the nuggets deal :p.
Anyways, I feel that the Knicks main problem was refusing to add Landry Fields into the deal, and then drafting another SG this season. If they were just going to double up that position, they should have traded Fields while his worth was still astronomically high. This season his production has dropped and so has his worth, and with Shumpert there to provide better defense, they could really use a trade for fields into something substantial (a back up big perhaps...)
On February 15 2012 17:31 DoomsVille wrote: You know what stings as a torontonian? Apparently the raptors and knicks were in talks about trading anthony carter for jeremy lin a few weeks ago...
On February 15 2012 16:54 igotmyown wrote: You guys forget that Carmelo is a winner, clutch, etc. Freshman year he wins the NCAA tournament and earns the tournament version of the MVP. He has a complete game. Basically everything people complain about Lebron, Carmelo has it right.
Can't tell if serious or trolling...
Do Canadians follow NCAA basketball? And are you even familiar with Carmelo's skill set?
On February 15 2012 17:31 DoomsVille wrote: You know what stings as a torontonian? Apparently the raptors and knicks were in talks about trading anthony carter for jeremy lin a few weeks ago...
On February 15 2012 16:54 igotmyown wrote: You guys forget that Carmelo is a winner, clutch, etc. Freshman year he wins the NCAA tournament and earns the tournament version of the MVP. He has a complete game. Basically everything people complain about Lebron, Carmelo has it right.
Can't tell if serious or trolling...
Do Canadians follow NCAA basketball? And are you even familiar with Carmelo's skill set?
On February 15 2012 17:31 DoomsVille wrote: You know what stings as a torontonian? Apparently the raptors and knicks were in talks about trading anthony carter for jeremy lin a few weeks ago...
On February 15 2012 16:54 igotmyown wrote: You guys forget that Carmelo is a winner, clutch, etc. Freshman year he wins the NCAA tournament and earns the tournament version of the MVP. He has a complete game. Basically everything people complain about Lebron, Carmelo has it right.
Can't tell if serious or trolling...
Do Canadians follow NCAA basketball? And are you even familiar with Carmelo's skill set?
people are to caught up in his current shooting statistics to look for what melo is capable of. of course melo looks kind of chubby too, so people will always think he isn't reaching his skill cap.
On February 15 2012 17:53 Holcan wrote: How does that suck for people from Toronto? He would've been behind Calderon, Barbosa and Bayless, it isn't like he would've exploded into the player he is today on Toronto.
Also there is no way that NYK get worse when Melo gets healthy, wtf are you thinking. This isn't Javale McGee, or DaMarcus Cousins, this is Carmelo "fuckin" Anthony, who has worked with scoring PG's before (hello AI) as well as a pass first PG (hello Chauncey) not to mention he is a super efficient scorer, and like 3 years removed from a WCF appearance, in which he led his team there, and a couple games removed from a finals appearance (which, in my opinion they would've won vs Orlando).
I don't see how a lineup on the floor of Lin, Fields/Shumpert, Melo, Amare, Chandler would be worse than any other lineup that a Melo trade could possibly net. Who are they going to go after? The only possible thing I can think of is a reneg on the nuggets deal :p.
Anyways, I feel that the Knicks main problem was refusing to add Landry Fields into the deal, and then drafting another SG this season. If they were just going to double up that position, they should have traded Fields while his worth was still astronomically high. This season his production has dropped and so has his worth, and with Shumpert there to provide better defense, they could really use a trade for fields into something substantial (a back up big perhaps...)
Carmelo disrupts any offense he's in. It got worse at the end of his time with the Nuggets and was an issue in their WCF. Carmelo might be one of the top 3 most brilliant 1 on 1 players in the league right now, but does not help his team play better. He holds onto the ball and then his teammates stop moving and before you know it you're 9-15 against an average schedule. He's got at least two years of regression to undo and that's not going to happen.
Last night was a terrible, ugly game against a bad opponent, but the Knicks were still playing better basketball than they were before Carmelo got injured. When he comes back they'll basically have 2.5 black holes on offense.
Damn I used to play basketball like 2 years but never got interested in watching nba mainly because of the timezone difference( obv. I watched when Nowitzki led the Mavericks to Championship last year) and I have to admit that Im riding the jeremy lin hype train mainly because I'm asian^^ but damn is it normal to go for a clutch 3 pointer like this? I guess because they had the draw anyway he took the risk?
And also wasnt this a homegame for the raptors? why did it feel like they in madison square garden when he hit that one haha guess a lotta asians in toronto.
Checking out Berlin adidas store later to see if they have a jeremy lin jersey already :D
On February 15 2012 17:53 Holcan wrote: How does that suck for people from Toronto? He would've been behind Calderon, Barbosa and Bayless, it isn't like he would've exploded into the player he is today on Toronto.
Also there is no way that NYK get worse when Melo gets healthy, wtf are you thinking. This isn't Javale McGee, or DaMarcus Cousins, this is Carmelo "fuckin" Anthony, who has worked with scoring PG's before (hello AI) as well as a pass first PG (hello Chauncey) not to mention he is a super efficient scorer, and like 3 years removed from a WCF appearance, in which he led his team there, and a couple games removed from a finals appearance (which, in my opinion they would've won vs Orlando).
I don't see how a lineup on the floor of Lin, Fields/Shumpert, Melo, Amare, Chandler would be worse than any other lineup that a Melo trade could possibly net. Who are they going to go after? The only possible thing I can think of is a reneg on the nuggets deal :p.
Anyways, I feel that the Knicks main problem was refusing to add Landry Fields into the deal, and then drafting another SG this season. If they were just going to double up that position, they should have traded Fields while his worth was still astronomically high. This season his production has dropped and so has his worth, and with Shumpert there to provide better defense, they could really use a trade for fields into something substantial (a back up big perhaps...)
Carmelo disrupts any offense he's in. It got worse at the end of his time with the Nuggets and was an issue in their WCF. Carmelo might be one of the top 3 most brilliant 1 on 1 players in the league right now, but does not help his team play better. He holds onto the ball and then his teammates stop moving and before you know it you're 9-15 against an average schedule. He's got at least two years of regression to undo and that's not going to happen.
Last night was a terrible, ugly game against a bad opponent, but the Knicks were still playing better basketball than they were before Carmelo got injured. When he comes back they'll basically have 2.5 black holes on offense.
I hate to say this, but I think your just taking the opposite stand on Knicks, just for the ability to say "see, i was right" when they lose(no teams win forever, its just a matter of time) i think your just looking way down on Knicks and people's ability to adapt.
Right now Lin is a ball hog(your so called blackhole), mainly because his teammates are passing to him(because he's a PG, he controls the ball, what else? a PG should take the ball and dishes it out for points, or score it himself), and he's scoring pretty decently (9-20 last game was decent, 45%) and his assist is still very high. What does it tells me? He's scoring on good opportunities with good success rates, and still dishing the ball out to teammates to get those assists.
When melo's back, melo no longer needs to hog the ball, that frees him to get better positions where Lin, being the smart guy that he is, will more than likely dish out the assist to him for him to score. This is putting his, and i quote from your post "Top 3 most brillant 1 on 1 players" ability, to best use. He just focuses on getting in position for his preferred 1 on 1 and grab the points. He can now focus on what he does best, be a efficient point scorer.
Thats what i see Lin brings to the team. He brings to it someone who can score if the other team lets their guard down around him. He also brings to it intelligent play & good field visions for great passes. Combined with Melo one of the best point scorers around, this 2 should be working damn well together drawing defenses for each other. With Amar the 3rd man big on offense and great at pick & roll combination with Lin, Knicks is actually going to be good.
No i dont think their going to be unbeatable, but i do think that your just being the devil's advocate just for the right to say "i told you so" when sooner or later, they get losses. Right now their on a pretty hot streak, and i definitely dont agree that when Melo comes back, the offense will be disrupted.Nor will there be 2.5 black holes. I definitely think Melo is going to add a extra dimension to Knick's offense and that's going to be a great help, now they will have 2 effective offense combinations.
Lin has controlled the ball his entire career. He is not a distributor first and he's never been one. He's got good vision but he's not a good passer for a PG and he's basically average when it comes to shot selection. Knicks fans have been fantasizing about a certain Phoenix point guard, but you've got the wrong one. You got Marbury (again), not Nash. Just with a better head on his shoulders. He won't be a defiant idiot like Marbury, but they're playing the same game. You've got a strong, driving scoring guard who may still average 8 APG.
Those aren't high assists, it's above average but he's also doing it in more playing time than most other players and with way too many turnovers. When Brandon Jennings dropped 31/8 against Miami (the Lin-led Knicks haven't played a team anywhere near this caliber), he did it with 0 turnovers. Also, he may be getting too many minutes but being exhausted every game is entirely on him. He's played 7 games this season, he should be fresher than everyone else.
When melo's back, melo no longer needs to hog the ball
Look, what Melo needs and what he does are completely different things. Melo never needed to hog the ball in Denver, yet it happened anyways. It's how he plays. Sure, Z-Bo made strides and perhaps Carmelo could too, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Part of it is playing devil's advocate. Part of it is that the Knicks are a very poorly planned and overpaid team, with abysmal coaching. They're the Knicks. You've got a superstar that may get you to the playoffs and no further, or a less talented but more cohesive team that may get there and with a lot more assets for the future.
Linsanity is going to continue for a bit because you've got Kings and Hornets coming up, but then you get a real schedule. Keep in mind the record of teams so far has been 68-106 and will be 83-147 after those two games.
EPT
