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On May 08 2012 21:06 Pandemona wrote:
Blackburn are fucked. Plain and simple, they sold the club to idiot owners who dont even have the guts and courage to speak out and hold there hands up admitting mistakes. They will not be back in the premier league any time soon, they will lose half there squad and be lucky to make top half of the Championship next season, i feel for there fans, they were a club with big tradition, and among the elite 4 in terms of teams who have won the premier league.
Please read what I've posted. It's an agency taking sporting uneducated people for a ride. It's called a con.
The only problem is Blackburns so well run it'll take a while for the club to collapse and THAT is when you'll find out. The problem being they'll already be in the third tier by the time that happenes. Sheffield Wednesday being a prime example if you want to research on it.
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Norway28866 Posts
the "best league" discussion is easily solved by just looking at the uefa coefficient. honestly, it's remarkably similar to the impression I've had myself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#League_coefficient
to condence some key points:
from 2007/2008 until 2011/2012, EPL is barely ahead of la liga. From 2008/2009 until 2012/2013, La liga will be in the lead. This is accurate; since 2009 there has been an obvious increase in the quality of spanish teams compared to english teams, noticable both when simply examining spanish teams playing spanish teams and english teams playing english teams, and when you compare international performances of clubs from both leagues.
what's even more interesting, and which might contribute to lessening how insulted people seem to be when it's insinuated that their league of preference is no longer in the lead, is this image:
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/4534882dd5d5d20451a3959103b9f688.png)
it changes! and not only that, it changes in strict accordance with how it actually is, and further, it always takes supporters a couple years to actually accept that a change has occured.
note that the discussion "which league is the most entertaining" is an entirely different one, and judged based on different parameters than which league is the best. saying you don't find the spanish league entertaining because it's a two-team competition is valid. saying you find the spanish league most entertaining because the quality of passing and ball-handling is higher, is valid. saying you find the bundesliga the most entertaining because it features the most title candidates is valid.. but result wise, certain leagues are dominant over certain periods of time. right now, it's la liga. (and chelsea beating barcelona doesn't change this - nor did barcelona beating chelsea in 2008-2009 make EPL non-dominant for that season.)
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On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's.  Plus, I don't know the exact facts but I'd wager that the points gap between 1,2 and the rest in la liga has, in the past 20 years, been much larger on average than the premier league points gap. I think it comes down to the fact that before any given season in the Premier League you can say 'these 4-6 teams can definitely win the EPL this season'. With La liga it will realistically be 2-3...every season. And when you get halfway in the league, you are still saying 'these 4 teams have a chance of winning the EPL', and in the spanish league it's more liek 'yep it's a battle between these 2 and the rest don't matter.' Meh, I just think there is also more class going down the league, good competitive teams like fulham and stoke further down the pecking order which I just don't think exist around 10-14th. And then you have the performance of clubs that have been promoted to the PL. It's just insane, the best example being Newcastle who bounced back from their relegation with now fighting for a CL spot. Awesome league...really competitive with very few dead weights. Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland...who are all great teams which have had glory in their past...and there you are missing out chelsea arsenal man u man city tottenham and newcastle. I just can't see how the long list of awesome clubs at EPL can be beaten by the la liga list which really tails off. Can you really compare the quality of everton liverpool and fulham to levante mallorca and osasuna?
I guess you've never heard of Levante.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 08 2012 21:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:the "best league" discussion is easily solved by just looking at the uefa coefficient. honestly, it's remarkably similar to the impression I've had myself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#League_coefficientto condence some key points: from 2007/2008 until 2011/2012, EPL is barely ahead of la liga. From 2008/2009 until 2012/2013, La liga will be in the lead. This is accurate; since 2009 there has been an obvious increase in the quality of spanish teams compared to english teams, noticable both when simply examining spanish teams playing spanish teams and english teams playing english teams, and when you compare international performances of clubs from both leagues. what's even more interesting, and which might contribute to lessening how insulted people seem to be when it's insinuated that their league of preference is no longer in the lead, is this image: + Show Spoiler +it changes! and not only that, it changes in strict accordance with how it actually is, and further, it always takes supporters a couple years to actually accept that a change has occured. note that the discussion "which league is the most entertaining" is an entirely different one, and judged based on different parameters than which league is the best. saying you don't find the spanish league entertaining because it's a two-team competition is valid. saying you find the spanish league most entertaining because the quality of passing and ball-handling is higher, is valid. saying you find the bundesliga the most entertaining because it features the most title candidates is valid.. but result wise, certain leagues are dominant over certain periods of time. right now, it's la liga. (and chelsea beating barcelona doesn't change this - nor did barcelona beating chelsea in 2008-2009 make EPL non-dominant for that season.)
The only reason i watch La Liga is for Real and Barca, these two teams are the two biggest teams in the world bar none. They have fantastic players, i love watching Ronaldo and Iniesta there crazy good, not to mention Messi or Ozil. Now Mourinho is at Real i watch them as much as i can on a saturday and sunday evening, i love Mourinho and his management style its great he is a born winner. To say one league is better than the other because of more teams battling for the top spot is wrong, the only way to see which league is the best is on global viewing figures and gate receipts from matches. At this moment in time due to the English teams not being as dominiant as they used to be i think La Liga might be stronger due to Real and Barca becoming very big forces again. But im sure this summer the English teams will be splashing out to catch up in the European competitions.
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On May 08 2012 21:47 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:36 Rebs wrote:On May 08 2012 19:56 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's. You are puling words from my mouth Sated. Actually, to describe that, it's best to look at the story of Valencia, a team that once tried to compete with Real and Barca and pretended to be third bigass club from Spain. In short, they had plenty of success with Hector Cuper (two consecutive CL finals) and later, Rafa Benitez (winning La Liga, winning UEFA Cup). It was, however, all at cost of gigantic debt. Their bosses hoped that the success will fill their banking accounts back, but it didn't. Why? Because the sponsors think that, as a brand, Valencia can't compete with Real and Barca. So they sold their best players, sold old stadium to get out of trouble. Pretty much the same goes for Deportivo La Coruna, who took the league title in 2000 and even got to CL semifinals once. Incidentally, they could assemble a team that can take out the giants. But in a long run, the financial issues around La Liga are so imbalanced towards Great Two that anyone else has to step back. Dont worry its PL fanboyism, nothing you can do about it... Again this stuff keeps popping back all the time so Im just going to link this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249755¤tpage=20Cash injections creating the illusion of emerging competition clearly makes it the leagues brilliance and not the fact that football exploded in the rest of the world and the English Premier league, happened to be .. well in English. Ofcourse you can say "its not our fault"were English and yea ofcourse. Right place right time. That having been said the only real superiority of the english game at the moment is its money and its popularity. Quality of football and aesthetic is subjective and the measures that they use for cross league rating is european performance. Spain rocked it this whether anyone likes it or not. Barca and Real might crush league teams at home but so did United and City this year. It is after all just for the year. I heard somewhere Fergie commenting that "they couldnt compete with City's financial clout". True or false ? Because if its true that just adds to another one of Fergie hypocricy's that frankly annoy me because hes such a boss and doesnt need to say shit like that. It is after all a culture he actively helped foster. Feel free to browse the pages either side to sate your appetites for this nonsense discussion that doesnt ever convince anyone otherwise O and while were at it Rovers didnt win 16 years ago. 94-95 do the math. As always, Rebs, your inability to properly understand the English language astounds me. "You've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement" was clearly meant to mean that Keniji had purposefully chosen the value 16 years in order to avoid mentioning Blackburn. Not that Blackburn had won the league in the last 16 years. Second of all, as pointed out by Drone, there are two arguments going on here. One is about the quality of the teams in these leagues and the other is about the competitiveness of these leagues. I was responding to someone who was speaking about the latter (competitiveness) and making it clear, through the use of pretty definitive statistics, that they were wrong to suggest that La Liga is anywhere near as competitive as the Premier League.
As I pointed it a few days ago. Last 20 years(Since the Football League is called Premier League) there's been 4 English Champions and there's been 5 Spanish champions.
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Puyol picked up an injury, and will miss both the cup final and the Euro 2012 
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On May 08 2012 21:24 Zhiroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's. Plus, I don't know the exact facts but I'd wager that the points gap between 1,2 and the rest in la liga has, in the past 20 years, been much larger on average than the premier league points gap. I think it comes down to the fact that before any given season in the Premier League you can say 'these 4-6 teams can definitely win the EPL this season'. With La liga it will realistically be 2-3...every season. And when you get halfway in the league, you are still saying 'these 4 teams have a chance of winning the EPL', and in the spanish league it's more liek 'yep it's a battle between these 2 and the rest don't matter.' Meh, I just think there is also more class going down the league, good competitive teams like fulham and stoke further down the pecking order which I just don't think exist around 10-14th. And then you have the performance of clubs that have been promoted to the PL. It's just insane, the best example being Newcastle who bounced back from their relegation with now fighting for a CL spot. Awesome league...really competitive with very few dead weights. Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland...who are all great teams which have had glory in their past...and there you are missing out chelsea arsenal man u man city tottenham and newcastle. I just can't see how the long list of awesome clubs at EPL can be beaten by the la liga list which really tails off. Can you really compare the quality of everton liverpool and fulham to levante mallorca and osasuna? I guess you've never heard of Levante.
Yeah fair point, although this year has been really rather spectacular in england with norwich west brom swansea and wigan all performing amazingly.
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On May 08 2012 21:24 Zhiroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's. Plus, I don't know the exact facts but I'd wager that the points gap between 1,2 and the rest in la liga has, in the past 20 years, been much larger on average than the premier league points gap. I think it comes down to the fact that before any given season in the Premier League you can say 'these 4-6 teams can definitely win the EPL this season'. With La liga it will realistically be 2-3...every season. And when you get halfway in the league, you are still saying 'these 4 teams have a chance of winning the EPL', and in the spanish league it's more liek 'yep it's a battle between these 2 and the rest don't matter.' Meh, I just think there is also more class going down the league, good competitive teams like fulham and stoke further down the pecking order which I just don't think exist around 10-14th. And then you have the performance of clubs that have been promoted to the PL. It's just insane, the best example being Newcastle who bounced back from their relegation with now fighting for a CL spot. Awesome league...really competitive with very few dead weights. Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland...who are all great teams which have had glory in their past...and there you are missing out chelsea arsenal man u man city tottenham and newcastle. I just can't see how the long list of awesome clubs at EPL can be beaten by the la liga list which really tails off. Can you really compare the quality of everton liverpool and fulham to levante mallorca and osasuna? I guess you've never heard of Levante.
Levante can't qualify for the ucl, while Newcastle still can...
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On May 08 2012 22:02 Timurid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 21:24 Zhiroo wrote:On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's. Plus, I don't know the exact facts but I'd wager that the points gap between 1,2 and the rest in la liga has, in the past 20 years, been much larger on average than the premier league points gap. I think it comes down to the fact that before any given season in the Premier League you can say 'these 4-6 teams can definitely win the EPL this season'. With La liga it will realistically be 2-3...every season. And when you get halfway in the league, you are still saying 'these 4 teams have a chance of winning the EPL', and in the spanish league it's more liek 'yep it's a battle between these 2 and the rest don't matter.' Meh, I just think there is also more class going down the league, good competitive teams like fulham and stoke further down the pecking order which I just don't think exist around 10-14th. And then you have the performance of clubs that have been promoted to the PL. It's just insane, the best example being Newcastle who bounced back from their relegation with now fighting for a CL spot. Awesome league...really competitive with very few dead weights. Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland...who are all great teams which have had glory in their past...and there you are missing out chelsea arsenal man u man city tottenham and newcastle. I just can't see how the long list of awesome clubs at EPL can be beaten by the la liga list which really tails off. Can you really compare the quality of everton liverpool and fulham to levante mallorca and osasuna? I guess you've never heard of Levante. Levante can't qualify for the ucl, while Newcastle still can...
Nope they still can qualify if:
Malaga Loses, A.Madrid Loses/draws and Levante wins - Levante goes ahead of Malaga on H-H.
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On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's. Plus, I don't know the exact facts but I'd wager that the points gap between 1,2 and the rest in la liga has, in the past 20 years, been much larger on average than the premier league points gap. I think it comes down to the fact that before any given season in the Premier League you can say 'these 4-6 teams can definitely win the EPL this season'. With La liga it will realistically be 2-3...every season. And when you get halfway in the league, you are still saying 'these 4 teams have a chance of winning the EPL', and in the spanish league it's more liek 'yep it's a battle between these 2 and the rest don't matter.' Meh, I just think there is also more class going down the league, good competitive teams like fulham and stoke further down the pecking order which I just don't think exist around 10-14th. And then you have the performance of clubs that have been promoted to the PL. It's just insane, the best example being Newcastle who bounced back from their relegation with now fighting for a CL spot. Awesome league...really competitive with very few dead weights. Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland...who are all great teams which have had glory in their past...and there you are missing out chelsea arsenal man u man city tottenham and newcastle. I just can't see how the long list of awesome clubs at EPL can be beaten by the la liga list which really tails off. Can you really compare the quality of everton liverpool and fulham to levante mallorca and osasuna?
That post is so full of ignorance it makes me believe that you guys never watched la liga and are just blind fanboys.
On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:
Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland
Really now? Do you happen to remember Sevilla and the fantastic football they played for 3 seasons with 2 Uefa Cups? Espanol went to a Uefa final 5 years ago. Villareal were a breath away from eliminating Arsenal in the CL semis with the great Riquelme.
Fulham, everton, stoke? Your views just blow my mind away.
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it would be interesting to see spanish and english teams duke it out in one tournament, but those below 2nd, 3rd place...
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On May 09 2012 00:06 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:
Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland Really now? Do you happen to remember Sevilla and the fantastic football they played for 3 seasons with 2 Uefa Cups? Espanol went to a Uefa final 5 years ago. Villareal were a breath away from eliminating Arsenal in the CL semis with the great Riquelme. Fulham, everton, stoke? Your views just blow my mind away.
I used the present tense, referring to the quality of the teams right now. All of the teams I mentioned have good prospects and are coming along with good young players (especially fulham they could be amazing) and I'm just not convinced that the Spanish league is going to pan out in the next few years to have much development in that level of teams. Doesn't help with the ludicrous split of TV rights and other assorted money which goes to Barca/ Real vs everyone else.
I know from the way that you talk that you are a fanboy of la liga and barcelona especially, seems like you watch way more liga then prem. I watch way more prem than liga simply because I enjoy some physical aspects to football and also I like good keepers (which seem to be absent from most liga teams) because then it feels like when people score goals they are 'worth it'. It makes me laugh that atletico's keeper who is currently one of the better keepers in la liga is actually a chelsea reserve. Ali Al Habsi is as good as basically every keeper minus casillas and valdes, and he just plays for Wigan. I also enjoy the fact that when any of the top teams come to a lower ranked team in the prem there is a genuine chance of loss, whether it just feels pointless to watch Barca/ Real v anyone below the 6th rank. Although I'll admit the best game for me in this liga season was 2-3 barca v osasuna, reminiscent of the 2-3 man u v blackburn.
PS Steveling plz argue your point with a little more class and less random insults.
On May 09 2012 00:19 Kotreb wrote:
it would be interesting to see spanish and english teams duke it out in one tournament, but those below 2nd, 3rd place...
I said it a long time ago that if you have 1st place v 1st place, 2nd place v 2nd place, etc, prem > la liga and it would probably be 15-5. I hate people talking about athletic's games v man city and man u, you really can't be sure they wanted to win those matches, coming first in the prem is an infinitely more important prize than moving up in the europa league.
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On May 08 2012 21:47 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:36 Rebs wrote:On May 08 2012 19:56 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's. You are puling words from my mouth Sated. Actually, to describe that, it's best to look at the story of Valencia, a team that once tried to compete with Real and Barca and pretended to be third bigass club from Spain. In short, they had plenty of success with Hector Cuper (two consecutive CL finals) and later, Rafa Benitez (winning La Liga, winning UEFA Cup). It was, however, all at cost of gigantic debt. Their bosses hoped that the success will fill their banking accounts back, but it didn't. Why? Because the sponsors think that, as a brand, Valencia can't compete with Real and Barca. So they sold their best players, sold old stadium to get out of trouble. Pretty much the same goes for Deportivo La Coruna, who took the league title in 2000 and even got to CL semifinals once. Incidentally, they could assemble a team that can take out the giants. But in a long run, the financial issues around La Liga are so imbalanced towards Great Two that anyone else has to step back. Dont worry its PL fanboyism, nothing you can do about it... Again this stuff keeps popping back all the time so Im just going to link this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249755¤tpage=20Cash injections creating the illusion of emerging competition clearly makes it the leagues brilliance and not the fact that football exploded in the rest of the world and the English Premier league, happened to be .. well in English. Ofcourse you can say "its not our fault"were English and yea ofcourse. Right place right time. That having been said the only real superiority of the english game at the moment is its money and its popularity. Quality of football and aesthetic is subjective and the measures that they use for cross league rating is european performance. Spain rocked it this whether anyone likes it or not. Barca and Real might crush league teams at home but so did United and City this year. It is after all just for the year. I heard somewhere Fergie commenting that "they couldnt compete with City's financial clout". True or false ? Because if its true that just adds to another one of Fergie hypocricy's that frankly annoy me because hes such a boss and doesnt need to say shit like that. It is after all a culture he actively helped foster. Feel free to browse the pages either side to sate your appetites for this nonsense discussion that doesnt ever convince anyone otherwise O and while were at it Rovers didnt win 16 years ago. 94-95 do the math. As always, Rebs, your inability to properly understand the English language astounds me. "You've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement" was clearly meant to mean that Keniji had purposefully chosen the value 16 years in order to avoid mentioning Blackburn. Not that Blackburn had won the league in the last 16 years. Second of all, as pointed out by Drone, there are two arguments going on here with relation to "which league is best". One is about the quality of the teams in these leagues and the other is about the competitiveness of these leagues. I was responding to someone who was speaking about the latter (competitiveness) and making it clear, through the use of pretty definitive statistics, that they were wrong to suggest that La Liga is anywhere near as competitive as the Premier League. Lastly, I wasn't making an argument about superiority so your rant is wasted on me. I was just pointing out that the Premier League is definitively more competitive; that's the only point I was responding too.
I cant be bothered at this point so Ill leave it with this.
If you wished to suggest the competitiveness of leagues pointing out former winners wasnt an argument you can make. The number of different winners over the last 2 decades is roughly the same. The only teams that have had a chance against the United juggernaut in this decade has been Arsenal for a bit and then a bunch of teams with money thrown at them like its nobodies business. We know at the moment EPL is more competitive no one is even arguing that changing your tune to semantics is embarrasing. Dont do it. Why would you respond with an argument about competitiveness which supposedly has nothing (to do with superiority according to you) to someone who is making claims of superiority by counting out the number of winners. The tree did start of with which league got voted the best after all. Ofcourse the idiot who made that google claim was ignoreworthy. But seemingly not.
Seems pretty strawman to me. But whatever I dont care.
Anyway your Blackburn statement was painfull unclear. It could mean either thing. It has nothing to do with my understanding of the english language and your usual response of hiding behind semantics everytime you say something silly.If you had meant it that way you shouldve been more specific. Regardess it was a pretty moot point to begin with you harped on it first not me.
On May 09 2012 00:18 Pandemona wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This and Viewing figures is how i determine the best league in the world, if you have viewing figures via gate receipts and world wide audiences then that is wat determines which league is the most successful imo. Anyone care to find Spanish version?
This is nothing more than a popularity contest argument. The ignorance here is almost revolting. Please dont clutch at anything and everything. You could write a paper (and people have) on why those figures have absolutely 0 to do with the quality of the league.
On May 09 2012 00:28 sc4k wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 09 2012 00:06 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:
Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland Really now? Do you happen to remember Sevilla and the fantastic football they played for 3 seasons with 2 Uefa Cups? Espanol went to a Uefa final 5 years ago. Villareal were a breath away from eliminating Arsenal in the CL semis with the great Riquelme. Fulham, everton, stoke? Your views just blow my mind away. I used the present tense, referring to the quality of the teams right now. All of the teams I mentioned have good prospects and are coming along with good young players (especially fulham they could be amazing) and I'm just not convinced that the Spanish league is going to pan out in the next few years to have much development in that level of teams. Doesn't help with the ludicrous split of TV rights and other assorted money which goes to Barca/ Real vs everyone else. I know from the way that you talk that you are a fanboy of la liga and barcelona especially, seems like you watch way more liga then prem. I watch way more prem than liga simply because I enjoy some physical aspects to football and also I like good keepers (which seem to be absent from most liga teams) because then it feels like when people score goals they are 'worth it'. It makes me laugh that atletico's keeper who is currently one of the better keepers in la liga is actually a chelsea reserve. Ali Al Habsi is as good as basically every keeper minus casillas and valdes, and he just plays for Wigan. I also enjoy the fact that when any of the top teams come to a lower ranked team in the prem there is a genuine chance of loss, whether it just feels pointless to watch Barca/ Real v anyone below the 6th rank. Although I'll admit the best game for me in this liga season was 2-3 barca v osasuna, reminiscent of the 2-3 man u v blackburn. PS Steveling plz argue your point with a little more class and less random insults. On May 09 2012 00:19 Kotreb wrote:
it would be interesting to see spanish and english teams duke it out in one tournament, but those below 2nd, 3rd place... I said it a long time ago that if you have 1st place v 1st place, 2nd place v 2nd place, etc, prem > la liga and it would probably be 15-5. I hate people talking about athletic's games v man city and man u, you really can't be sure they wanted to win those matches, coming first in the prem is an infinitely more important prize than moving up in the europa league.
The majority of these views are completely subjective that can be simplified to "I like this therefore.." Impossible to take seriously.
I dont see why its so hard to take what Drone posted as reasonable and bury it. It seems the most reasonable state of affairs to me. Ive made the cyclical nature of league quality for ages now and even in the link I posted earlier. The fact that is falls on deaf ears is disappointing.
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On May 09 2012 00:44 Rebs wrote:
The majority of these views are completely subjective that can be simplified to "I like this therefore.." Impossible to take seriously.
Right back at you, 95% of views you express are completely subjective too.
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On May 09 2012 00:19 Kotreb wrote:
it would be interesting to see spanish and english teams duke it out in one tournament, but those below 2nd, 3rd place...
You mean those below 2nd and 3rd place like Athletic Bilbao that beat 2nd place of EPL in Europa League? 
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EPT
