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On May 09 2012 03:19 Pandemona wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 09 2012 00:44 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 21:47 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 20:36 Rebs wrote:On May 08 2012 19:56 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 19:38 Sated wrote:On May 08 2012 19:15 Keniji wrote:On May 08 2012 18:48 popzags wrote:On May 08 2012 17:18 Steveling wrote:
In other news Barca won the Best team of the Decade award on the IFFHS ceremony among others.
Totally deserved.
Oh and la liga won the best league in the world topping the premiership. What? A league where two teams ridiculously pwn everyone else season after season won over a league, where everything can happen and every single team plays as it was fighting for it's life? Duh, maybe La Liga is way more spectacular to watch, but in terms of skill and competitiveness, Premier League owns pretty much any league I can think of. So I just googled it because I was interested. In the last 16 years a total amount of 3 different teams have won te premiere league. Pretty diverse right there. Barca and real are dominating la liga, and probably more than it happens in other leagues. But it's not like it doesn't happen in other leagues. I like how you've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement, who were just relegated yesterday. Well done. Also, you need to look closer at the details to get the full story. The same teams might compete for the title most years, but at least they're being pushed by the other teams in the league moreso than the top teams in La Liga are. Take this year, for example. - Both United and City have lost as many games individually as Real Madrid and Barcelona combined.
- United and City have goal differences of +55 and +63 respectively. Real Madrid and Barcelona have goal differences of +86 and +85.
- The gap between second and third in the Premier League is 19 points. The same gap in La Liga is 29 points. Fully 10 points more.
Going further back, Real Madrid and Barcelona have won the title 52 times between them and have never been relegated from the top flight. Manchester United and Liverpool have only won the top flight title 37 times between them and have both been relegated from the top flight. Moreover, only 9 teams have ever won Spain's top-flight; 23 teams have won England's.  You are puling words from my mouth Sated. Actually, to describe that, it's best to look at the story of Valencia, a team that once tried to compete with Real and Barca and pretended to be third bigass club from Spain. In short, they had plenty of success with Hector Cuper (two consecutive CL finals) and later, Rafa Benitez (winning La Liga, winning UEFA Cup). It was, however, all at cost of gigantic debt. Their bosses hoped that the success will fill their banking accounts back, but it didn't. Why? Because the sponsors think that, as a brand, Valencia can't compete with Real and Barca. So they sold their best players, sold old stadium to get out of trouble. Pretty much the same goes for Deportivo La Coruna, who took the league title in 2000 and even got to CL semifinals once. Incidentally, they could assemble a team that can take out the giants. But in a long run, the financial issues around La Liga are so imbalanced towards Great Two that anyone else has to step back. Dont worry its PL fanboyism, nothing you can do about it... Again this stuff keeps popping back all the time so Im just going to link this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249755¤tpage=20Cash injections creating the illusion of emerging competition clearly makes it the leagues brilliance and not the fact that football exploded in the rest of the world and the English Premier league, happened to be .. well in English. Ofcourse you can say "its not our fault"were English and yea ofcourse. Right place right time. That having been said the only real superiority of the english game at the moment is its money and its popularity. Quality of football and aesthetic is subjective and the measures that they use for cross league rating is european performance. Spain rocked it this whether anyone likes it or not. Barca and Real might crush league teams at home but so did United and City this year. It is after all just for the year. I heard somewhere Fergie commenting that "they couldnt compete with City's financial clout". True or false ? Because if its true that just adds to another one of Fergie hypocricy's that frankly annoy me because hes such a boss and doesnt need to say shit like that. It is after all a culture he actively helped foster. Feel free to browse the pages either side to sate your appetites for this nonsense discussion that doesnt ever convince anyone otherwise O and while were at it Rovers didnt win 16 years ago. 94-95 do the math. As always, Rebs, your inability to properly understand the English language astounds me. "You've neatly omitted Blackburn from your statement" was clearly meant to mean that Keniji had purposefully chosen the value 16 years in order to avoid mentioning Blackburn. Not that Blackburn had won the league in the last 16 years. Second of all, as pointed out by Drone, there are two arguments going on here with relation to "which league is best". One is about the quality of the teams in these leagues and the other is about the competitiveness of these leagues. I was responding to someone who was speaking about the latter (competitiveness) and making it clear, through the use of pretty definitive statistics, that they were wrong to suggest that La Liga is anywhere near as competitive as the Premier League. Lastly, I wasn't making an argument about superiority so your rant is wasted on me. I was just pointing out that the Premier League is definitively more competitive; that's the only point I was responding too. I cant be bothered at this point so Ill leave it with this. If you wished to suggest the competitiveness of leagues pointing out former winners wasnt an argument you can make. The number of different winners over the last 2 decades is roughly the same. The only teams that have had a chance against the United juggernaut in this decade has been Arsenal for a bit and then a bunch of teams with money thrown at them like its nobodies business. We know at the moment EPL is more competitive no one is even arguing that changing your tune to semantics is embarrasing. Dont do it. Why would you respond with an argument about competitiveness which supposedly has nothing (to do with superiority according to you) to someone who is making claims of superiority by counting out the number of winners. The tree did start of with which league got voted the best after all. Ofcourse the idiot who made that google claim was ignoreworthy. But seemingly not. Seems pretty strawman to me. But whatever I dont care. Anyway your Blackburn statement was painfull unclear. It could mean either thing. It has nothing to do with my understanding of the english language and your usual response of hiding behind semantics everytime you say something silly.If you had meant it that way you shouldve been more specific. Regardess it was a pretty moot point to begin with you harped on it first not me. Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 00:18 Pandemona wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This and Viewing figures is how i determine the best league in the world, if you have viewing figures via gate receipts and world wide audiences then that is wat determines which league is the most successful imo. Anyone care to find Spanish version? On May 09 2012 00:44 Rebs wrote:This is nothing more than a popularity contest argument. The ignorance here is almost revolting. Please dont clutch at anything and everything. You could write a paper (and people have) on why those figures have absolutely 0 to do with the quality of the league. + Show Spoiler +On May 09 2012 00:28 sc4k wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 09 2012 00:06 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 20:41 sc4k wrote:
Below Atletico, Valencia and I guess with their money Malaga, there really isn't much else going on in la liga. In the prem we have teams like fulham, everton, liverpool (although they should be competing for the title), stoke, sunderland Really now? Do you happen to remember Sevilla and the fantastic football they played for 3 seasons with 2 Uefa Cups? Espanol went to a Uefa final 5 years ago. Villareal were a breath away from eliminating Arsenal in the CL semis with the great Riquelme. Fulham, everton, stoke? Your views just blow my mind away. I used the present tense, referring to the quality of the teams right now. All of the teams I mentioned have good prospects and are coming along with good young players (especially fulham they could be amazing) and I'm just not convinced that the Spanish league is going to pan out in the next few years to have much development in that level of teams. Doesn't help with the ludicrous split of TV rights and other assorted money which goes to Barca/ Real vs everyone else. I know from the way that you talk that you are a fanboy of la liga and barcelona especially, seems like you watch way more liga then prem. I watch way more prem than liga simply because I enjoy some physical aspects to football and also I like good keepers (which seem to be absent from most liga teams) because then it feels like when people score goals they are 'worth it'. It makes me laugh that atletico's keeper who is currently one of the better keepers in la liga is actually a chelsea reserve. Ali Al Habsi is as good as basically every keeper minus casillas and valdes, and he just plays for Wigan. I also enjoy the fact that when any of the top teams come to a lower ranked team in the prem there is a genuine chance of loss, whether it just feels pointless to watch Barca/ Real v anyone below the 6th rank. Although I'll admit the best game for me in this liga season was 2-3 barca v osasuna, reminiscent of the 2-3 man u v blackburn. PS Steveling plz argue your point with a little more class and less random insults. On May 09 2012 00:19 Kotreb wrote:
it would be interesting to see spanish and english teams duke it out in one tournament, but those below 2nd, 3rd place... I said it a long time ago that if you have 1st place v 1st place, 2nd place v 2nd place, etc, prem > la liga and it would probably be 15-5. I hate people talking about athletic's games v man city and man u, you really can't be sure they wanted to win those matches, coming first in the prem is an infinitely more important prize than moving up in the europa league. The majority of these views are completely subjective that can be simplified to "I like this therefore.." Impossible to take seriously. I dont see why its so hard to take what Drone posted as reasonable and bury it. It seems the most reasonable state of affairs to me. Ive made the cyclical nature of league quality for ages now and even in the link I posted earlier. The fact that is falls on deaf ears is disappointing. Why did you post like that? Sometimes i wonder if you are an intelligent man or not Rebs. I was merely stating facts, as in the only facts you should consider in what "league" is the best is by viewing figures, gate receipts and how much money they are given in prize money. The more people who watch the teams mean the more players they can pay and more turnover they can make. More people watching them on TV means the TV stations have to pay more money to get the licenses, which = more prize money. Thus the reason Premiership has 60-40million prize fun is due to the TV rights from Sky Sports. That is what im adding to the debate, and what i would consider the best league is on that basis of having the highest average gate receipts/attendances through out the league, the highest paying prizes in the league positions and how many people watch the games through out the league on TV around the world. Your point you just made is silly and is more a clutching at straws than my post. I happily watch Real and Barca most weeks when i can, but it does not mean that there league is better, i dont care about any other league than the league Chelsea is in, as i just want my club to win all there games all the time, i just like watching football when im not watching Chelsea. If theres a match anywhere in the world that interests me i will watch it, whether its Real vs Valencia or Wigan vs Blackburn i dont care, if im interested in it i watch it.
Doesnt matter, its relevance to the quality of a league is limited aside from the money clubs can make and have to play with and improve their squads. You didnt mention that. And frankly seeing as how theyre doing in europe doesnt seem like theyre using it very efficiently but I digress. Everything else is an appeal to popularity to call something the best on that basis is fundamentally flawed. It wont get you very far and sidetracks whats important. You say I clutch at straws and dont really tell me why. But ok..
Avatar has made the most money adjusted for inflation of any movie ever. Best movie of all time ? I didnt think so. You have your opinon thats fine but the logic is lacking anything that would contribute usefully. Uefa for its insufficiencies and lack of forsight doesnt rate on which team gets the most gate receipts or tv money. I think its obvious why.
Btw what happened to that Marvin Martin kid, I heard Arsenal were interested. I saw a couple of games early in the year hes pretty good.
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Oh dear, we are getting the living shit battered out of us by liverpool. 3-0 already!!! To be fair though we do basically have our reserve team on also terry is having an awful day.
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On May 09 2012 01:31 Zhiroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 00:19 Kotreb wrote:
it would be interesting to see spanish and english teams duke it out in one tournament, but those below 2nd, 3rd place... You mean those below 2nd and 3rd place like Athletic Bilbao that beat 2nd place of EPL in Europa League? 
Kinda cheap jab since i wasn't going for at all, but it has been responded...
I'm more interested into turning that into serious tournament which would include either current teams from both leagues ranging from 3-8 place at the end of the current campaign or let's say top 5 all time best (eg man u, liverpool, arsenal vs real, barca, valencia etc).
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shame liverpool are 3 days too late, rofl
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On May 09 2012 04:34 mememolly wrote:
shame liverpool are 3 days too late, rofl
Yeah shame we didn't play our reserves for the FA cup final 
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Chelski getting thrashed and Terry playing like absolute crap.
Bet Liverpool are kicking themselves right now too.
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Why the fuck was that only a yellow for Essian. He could end someones career like that, fuck him.
Now Ivanovic, what the fuck is wrong with Chelsea today ?
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Netherlands13554 Posts
How can this ref only give yellows? He forgot his red one?
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Carrol making a sick dive.
elbowed in the chest collapses and holds his face,
I know its hard to breath when you get elbowed in the chest Andy but it's a lot more difficult if you got 2 hands there covering the airway
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Well, Liverpool, if only this comes a few days earlier. But Liverpool's luck was really bad at the FA final.
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On May 09 2012 04:55 Caphe wrote:
Well, Liverpool, if only this comes a few days earlier. But Liverpool's luck was really bad at the FA final.
Not bad luck if you have to go 2-0 down before you actually start playing like a team thats there to win.
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I can only laugh at this game...I really hope Di Matteo lets Lukaku have a run around. Liverpool are playing like they seriously care desperately and Chelsea are playing like it's a charity reserves match.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On May 09 2012 04:44 Megatronn wrote:
Why the fuck was that only a yellow for Essian. He could end someones career like that, fuck him.
Now Ivanovic, what the fuck is wrong with Chelsea today ?
Never really liked Essien ever since that time he went studs up into a tackle and had the nerve to feign injury to try and escape punishment.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
On May 09 2012 05:03 sc4k wrote:
I can only laugh at this game...I really hope Di Matteo lets Lukaku have a run around. Liverpool are playing like they seriously care desperately and Chelsea are playing like it's a charity reserves match.
Really? with those idiot defenders of Chelsea elbowing people and throwing flying studs up tackles? Doubt they play like that at a charity event.
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On May 09 2012 05:12 Twisted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 05:03 sc4k wrote:
I can only laugh at this game...I really hope Di Matteo lets Lukaku have a run around. Liverpool are playing like they seriously care desperately and Chelsea are playing like it's a charity reserves match. Really? with those idiot defenders of Chelsea elbowing people and throwing flying studs up tackles? Doubt they play like that at a charity event.
Well more like with the level of effort suitable to a charity reserves match . Skrtel just threw a two footed tackle at ramires didnt even get booked right? Wasn't watching too hard, cooking food. Anyway our defence is having a shocker for sure.
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On May 09 2012 05:13 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2012 05:12 Twisted wrote:On May 09 2012 05:03 sc4k wrote:
I can only laugh at this game...I really hope Di Matteo lets Lukaku have a run around. Liverpool are playing like they seriously care desperately and Chelsea are playing like it's a charity reserves match. Really? with those idiot defenders of Chelsea elbowing people and throwing flying studs up tackles? Doubt they play like that at a charity event. Well more like with the level of effort suitable to a charity reserves match . Skrtel just threw a two footed tackle at ramires didnt even get booked right? Wasn't watching too hard, cooking food. Anyway our defence is having a shocker for sure.
A lot of Chelsea hate in this thread I sense.
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Feel bad for this keeper lol.
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Oh dear, Turnbull is having a torrid day. Don't think he'll be getting much first team action over courtois when he comes back!
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
God I hope they lose in Munich. Can't wait to see all the smug faces turn sour at the prospect of playing in the Europa league next season.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I guess Romeu got some acting lessons from Drogba.
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EPT
