NBA Playoffs (2010-2011) - Page 67

On May 11 2011 12:29 ilikejokes wrote:
Fair enough. What I meant was that as a defender you can use your hand to check a player with his back to the basket, and you can touch an opponent as long as you don't effect his movement (which are both things that are legal by that rule). Deng wasn't doing any "hand checking" by the definition presented in that rule, but he was doing the other things which is what I thought that poster meant by hand checking.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

On May 11 2011 12:04 ilikejokes wrote:

re: Rose and Westbrook --- Westbrook chucks up contested outside jumpers when there's a wide-open Kevin Durant sitting at the top of the key. Rose's shot selection is way better than Westbrook's--they may take similar numbers of shots but Rose's shots are mostly good while Westbrook's are mostly not--and anyway the offense is supposed to run through Rose, whereas the OKC offense is supposed to run differently.

Pau is bad because he's a skilled seven footer yet for whatever reason he falls apart and doesn't use his size or skill whenever he's being played physically.

Boozer has been largely a disappointment recently because he hasn't been nearly as aggressive on offense as he should be, but you can't compare him to Westbrook because it's not like he's handling the ball...

Edit: Deng isn't even really an offensive player, yes he's a good slasher and he has a decent jump shot but he's not going to be creating any offense on his own, and since Boozer is a post-up guy he can't create offense either he has to take what the defense gives him.

It's not Westbrook's drives to the hoop that are the problem it's his tendency to chuck up bad jumpers.

On May 11 2011 13:41 Holcan wrote:
Actually, I would say that Westbrook willed his team into winning that game. We must've been watching different games, because the one i was watching Westbrook was absolutely demolishing his matchup, while Durant was being draped with constant double teams.

On May 11 2011 14:05 ilikejokes wrote:

The Thunder lost game 1. So yeah Westbrook totally willed them into winning it, since they lost.

On May 11 2011 14:05 ilikejokes wrote:

The Thunder lost game 1. So yeah Westbrook totally willed them into winning it, since they lost.

On May 11 2011 14:12 city42 wrote:

To be fair, Chicago won game 3 vs. Atlanta by 17. It's also not really a one game sample, since Rose was dreadful from the floor (and kept gunning) in all three of Chicago's playoff losses this year.

On May 11 2011 13:22 Holcan wrote:

You didnt even comprehend what I was typing, and my proposition still stands, either Westbrook is a good player for taking the intiative to relieve the offensive stress from Durant, or Rose is a bad player for failing to get the ball to Boozer and Deng in situations that they can easily score.

You cant have "Westbrook is bad for taking too many shots, but Rose can do it because he won MVP" Either both players are at fault, or neither player is at fault. Stop riding the media bandwagon, no PTI stories are not universal truths, although they are mildly entertaining.

On May 11 2011 13:22 Holcan wrote:

You didnt even comprehend what I was typing, and my proposition still stands, either Westbrook is a good player for taking the intiative to relieve the offensive stress from Durant, or Rose is a bad player for failing to get the ball to Boozer and Deng in situations that they can easily score.

You cant have "Westbrook is bad for taking too many shots, but Rose can do it because he won MVP" Either both players are at fault, or neither player is at fault. Stop riding the media bandwagon, no PTI stories are not universal truths, although they are mildly entertaining.

On May 11 2011 17:15 ilikejokes wrote:


In fact I did comprehend what you were saying, and what you were saying is just wrong. Talking about either player requires recognizing the context he is operating in, and, since Westbrook plays with Kevin Durant et al., it is hardly "straw manning" the argument to say that he should shoot (bad shots) less and pass (to his teammates) more.

They are NOT essentially the same player---Rose is the #1 option on his team and Westbrook is the #2 option on his, yet Westbrook has a higher usage rate than Durant (the best scorer/biggest match-up nightmare in the league). Westbrook is also a less adept finisher, worse decision-maker, and a less athletic/slower player than Rose.

Furthermore, Rose DOES get the ball to his teammates in situations where they could/should easily score. He's averaging one more assist/game than Westbrook despite the fact that most of Rose's teammates have trouble hitting open shots and not uncommonly futz up easy buckets at the hoop.

On May 11 2011 16:50 jmbthirteen wrote:


You can have Westbrook is bad for taking too many shots while Rose isn't because they are on different teams. Derrick Rose doesn't have a teammate with the offensive capability of Kevin Durant. Derrick Rose doesn't have the luxury of being the number two option. Derrick Rose doesn't even have the luxury of having a number two option. Carlos Boozer is a joke. He is paid like a first option and yet plays like a third option. To get him the ball in situations where they can score is a two way street. Boozer doesn't get himself into a good position. He has been scoring on long jumpers that he gets open on from Rose attacking the basket and defenders sagging in to help clog the lane. Derrick Rose has proven to be a willing passer and is way more of a creator than Westbrook. Westbrook takes a lot of bad shots. There are a good amount of possessions where he is the only one that touches the ball. I'm sorry, but when you have Kevin Durant, one of the most difficult match ups in all of the league, you get him the ball nearly every possession. Westbrook doesn't do that. He looks for his own shot too much and the Thunder don't need that. Multiple times closing out game 4, he was looking for his own instead of going to Durant.

Rose taking too many shots is more of a product of having inept offensive teammates. You can't say that about Westbrook when he isn't the best offensive player on the team.

On May 11 2011 18:13 Holcan wrote:

This is so full of opinion theres no way I can possibly reply to it without you cramming down my throat how you understand basketball on a level I never could, so I just simply wont reply to you. Thanks for strawmanning my argument, again.


Boozer is the best ambidextrous player at PF in the league, you can easily get him into positions to score, what you are typing is opinion, not fact, look at Utah, and the reason he gets paid 100 million. Stop strawmanning the argument, this isnt about how good Durant, or how bad Boozer is, its about the style of play that both guards run, which is insanely similar, and both squelch the primary scoring option on the team, either both players are doing something right, or both players are doing something wrong.

MVP winner in Rose, and conference semi-finals appearances by both lead me to think they are both doing something right.

On May 12 2011 01:48 Ace wrote:
Westbrook has to shoot a lot also though. There are a lot of shots to go around - the problem is that Westbrook freezes other players out not named Durant.

Rose does the same thing. Sure he should be taking majority of the shots for them to win, but you can't criticize Westbrook because he has Durant. Whether you like his game or not Boozer is still one of the few 20/10 players in the league and he has a good scoring option in Deng. Both of these players can create for themselves and both of them are either good at pick n pop (Boozer) or decent in Deng.

What I think Holcan is saying is you can't give one guy a pass and criticize the other when both players could be better at getting the other players on their team involved no matter what the name on the back of the jersey is.

On May 12 2011 01:57 KOFgokuon wrote:
Wtf deng slashes and sets upfor corner 3s he can't create at all

On May 12 2011 02:22 Ace wrote:


o.0 When Rose isn't in the lineup and before Rose got to Chicago what was Deng doing?