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Diablo III General Discussion - Page 83

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Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
June 02 2011 04:26 GMT
#1641
--- Nuked ---
MrProb
Profile Joined January 2011
Thailand794 Posts
June 02 2011 04:27 GMT
#1642
On June 02 2011 13:21 d(O.o)a wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 13:13 MrProb wrote:
On June 02 2011 13:01 d(O.o)a wrote:
On June 02 2011 12:36 Barrin wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:55 d(O.o)a wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:28 Barrin wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:08 MrProb wrote:
Im fine with sell/buy for RL cash but no no to d2jsp


I don't see how anybody can think that. d2jsp is actually an interesting concept. If I quit diablo 2 and started playing WoW for example, I could sell all my diablo 2 stuff for forum gold and purchase gold with it for WoW. Then when I get bored of WoW I can sell everything once again and buy stuff for whatever I'm playing next. d2jsp is standardized currency for all online gaming. I'm not sure I'd like people buying Diablo 3 items with it the day the game is released, but it really isn't the end of the world.

End of the world, of course not.

To a competitive-minded gamer? End of that game for them.

So many people don't know what it's like to be a competitive-minded gamer in an RPG game. You're really missing out IMO.

======

All you people saying "PvE is easy" obviously don't know what it's like laddering without an armada of bots running around. Try taking a group of 5-8 level 80+ random actual people (non-bots) who do not jsp at the beginning of a ladder reset and then do hell baal runs and tell me how easy it is. 6 times out of 10 the run falls apart because you don't have someone who can teleport down to the throne room without 95% of the time. 3 of the rest of the 4 times the run falls apart because the group can't even kill anything. The rest of the time the run actually works because you have a proper mix of characters (DPS'ers of multiple elemental types, battle orders or an oak sage from druid or both, and a tank like an army necromancer or war cry barbarian). Even if you can do it with less than 4 people the experience is quite slow.

Gradually the bots flood the item market and most people have what they need by the 3 week mark (which would without bots take at least 2 months).

I'm not saying PvE is "hard". I'm saying that the people who think it's easy obviously have no idea what it's like without a billion bots doing everything for them and flooding the market with items.


Baal runs are a waste of time for xp early on without loot until about 85 it's better to do chaos if with friends or meph/andy/pindle/eldritch/shenk by that time you should have more than enough gear to do baal with even the slightest help.

Um, that's only true if you get yourself rushed all the way through. So if you get someone to do everything for you so you don't actually have to play the game, then it's easy. Herpity derp?

Note: you can't even get someone to do everything for you at the start of a ladder...


I was talking about on hell difficulty, not normal and nm....
On June 02 2011 12:47 MrProb wrote:
On June 02 2011 12:36 Barrin wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:55 d(O.o)a wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:28 Barrin wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On June 02 2011 09:08 MrProb wrote:
Im fine with sell/buy for RL cash but no no to d2jsp


I don't see how anybody can think that. d2jsp is actually an interesting concept. If I quit diablo 2 and started playing WoW for example, I could sell all my diablo 2 stuff for forum gold and purchase gold with it for WoW. Then when I get bored of WoW I can sell everything once again and buy stuff for whatever I'm playing next. d2jsp is standardized currency for all online gaming. I'm not sure I'd like people buying Diablo 3 items with it the day the game is released, but it really isn't the end of the world.

End of the world, of course not.

To a competitive-minded gamer? End of that game for them.

So many people don't know what it's like to be a competitive-minded gamer in an RPG game. You're really missing out IMO.

======

All you people saying "PvE is easy" obviously don't know what it's like laddering without an armada of bots running around. Try taking a group of 5-8 level 80+ random actual people (non-bots) who do not jsp at the beginning of a ladder reset and then do hell baal runs and tell me how easy it is. 6 times out of 10 the run falls apart because you don't have someone who can teleport down to the throne room without 95% of the time. 3 of the rest of the 4 times the run falls apart because the group can't even kill anything. The rest of the time the run actually works because you have a proper mix of characters (DPS'ers of multiple elemental types, battle orders or an oak sage from druid or both, and a tank like an army necromancer or war cry barbarian). Even if you can do it with less than 4 people the experience is quite slow.

Gradually the bots flood the item market and most people have what they need by the 3 week mark (which would without bots take at least 2 months).

I'm not saying PvE is "hard". I'm saying that the people who think it's easy obviously have no idea what it's like without a billion bots doing everything for them and flooding the market with items.


Baal runs are a waste of time for xp early on without loot until about 85 it's better to do chaos if with friends or meph/andy/pindle/eldritch/shenk by that time you should have more than enough gear to do baal with even the slightest help.

Um, that's only true if you get yourself rushed all the way through. So if you get someone to do everything for you so you don't actually have to play the game, then it's easy. Herpity derp?

Note: you can't even get someone to do everything for you at the start of a ladder...


yep

w/o bots/cheats (like automap) the game is pretty hard even in act.1

Ppl are just spoiled by bots/cheats/power play

they dont play the way the game was supposed to be play, yet, they judged the game based on that...


Are you joking? I've participated in no-armor walkthroughs on hc and made it to hell, I've done complete walkthroughs of the entire game with friends on hc, This game is NOT hard, keep thinking that though...


i'm saying its hard in general/overall

some ppl preferred party play while some, like me, preferred solo in 8ppl game unless i have to party.

and not everyone can do what u did, there are newbs out there who doesnt know shiet about the game or even starters who doesnt know much about game mechanic or a proper way to play.

and yes i know about no armor walkthrough on hc. actually, i've only heard about it. whats the detail on it tho ? a party of 8ppl completely naked leading by necromancer?


No, it's 1 person8 people (not sure why I typed 1 person) no armor, only weapons and summon necros are banned.



how do you play as a WW barb then ? no armor no accessories... thats like impossible you'll basically get one hit from ... lets say summoner with negative resistances
rave[wcr] wrote: wtf how can erik understand kelly, its like han solo and chewabacca overthere.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
June 02 2011 04:29 GMT
#1643
On June 02 2011 13:26 Barrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 13:24 sob3k wrote:
Hey guys can you continue this discussion in the d2 thread please.

I'll admit we've moved on to a bit of a tangent, but to be perfectly honest the heart of the D2 discussion on the past few pages has a heavy relevant context to D3.


I know but it's rapidly veering offtopic
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
MrProb
Profile Joined January 2011
Thailand794 Posts
June 02 2011 04:32 GMT
#1644
On June 02 2011 13:29 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 13:26 Barrin wrote:
On June 02 2011 13:24 sob3k wrote:
Hey guys can you continue this discussion in the d2 thread please.

I'll admit we've moved on to a bit of a tangent, but to be perfectly honest the heart of the D2 discussion on the past few pages has a heavy relevant context to D3.


I know but it's rapidly veering offtopic


actually its not off topic, they kinda related to "how do we want the D3 gameplay to be"

we are discussing about gameplay in d2 which was kinda poorly made and get abused by powerplay/bots then ppl started complaining it was "too easy"
rave[wcr] wrote: wtf how can erik understand kelly, its like han solo and chewabacca overthere.
Ximeng
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
China57 Posts
June 02 2011 04:59 GMT
#1645
Move your D2 discussion to the D2 thread please. I come here for D3 news.
I'm not Chinese but it would be okay if I were
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-02 07:54:20
June 02 2011 07:44 GMT
#1646
Best part about pvp in D3 will be that fight no longer last <0.3 sec...


On June 02 2011 13:59 Ximeng wrote:
Move your D2 discussion to the D2 thread please. I come here for D3 news.


Then start writing about D3 and stop whining pls
Not even death can save you from me.
blubshizzle
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands34 Posts
June 02 2011 09:08 GMT
#1647
I still do not like d2jsp. It might be great as a concept but not when the concept doesn't work right on all ends.

If i would 24/7 bot d2 and sell all items. I can trade these for fg(forum gold). And buy anything in d3.
So basicly what this means is: Whenever i find a d3 item i am going to trade this with some wow gold or some shitty crap enigma from d2 or just something i want from d3.
This basicly means you can better play d2 to get easier, faster and better items at d3.

How is this a good thing?
What can be exploited will be exploited.

A concept like this will always ruin a new game economy. And stop saying we have to get used to it. I have never traded in d2jsp and always played the game my way.

Just stop using d2jsp and see how it ruins anything that is remotely trying to create an ingame economy on its own. I know d2 has a bad ingame economy. But in the very beginning we just traded what we need for something they need. I´m not saying i want back to that old weird way but just keep the system within the game.

Give me a good reason why i should use d2jsp and why it works so well for d3. Consider i don´t want to play or trade with wow, d2 or any other game.
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
June 02 2011 10:37 GMT
#1648
Stop worrying guys. Blizzard actually cares about D3 when it comes out.
Not even death can save you from me.
woowoo
Profile Joined May 2010
France164 Posts
June 02 2011 11:03 GMT
#1649
You won't need d2jsp in diablo 3.
wooooo
crabz
Profile Joined May 2011
227 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-02 11:28:04
June 02 2011 11:27 GMT
#1650
On June 02 2011 16:44 gosublade wrote:
Best part about pvp in D3 will be that fight no longer last <0.3 sec...

lol what? if anything pvp in d2 suffered from defwhoring, short duels were never a problem, so far i dont like what i see in d3 pvp system
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
June 02 2011 11:31 GMT
#1651
On June 02 2011 20:27 crabz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 16:44 gosublade wrote:
Best part about pvp in D3 will be that fight no longer last <0.3 sec...

lol what? if anything pvp in d2 suffered from defwhoring, short duels were never a problem, so far i dont like what i see in d3 pvp system

I don't know what game you were playing but if one player started taking dam, one of the players was dead by the end of 3rd second at the latest
Not even death can save you from me.
Mangemongen
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden125 Posts
June 02 2011 11:34 GMT
#1652
On June 01 2011 19:50 gosublade wrote:
I feel like sound effects and overall audio is one of the most important core parts of a good game. Almost all good games have exceptional sound quality. BW, D1 and D2 had it, its lacking a bit in SC2 imo. But what I've seen so far about D3, the sound feels badass


Sound plays a way bigger role than graphics, I think this is actually true for most people, they just don't know it.
crabz
Profile Joined May 2011
227 Posts
June 02 2011 11:57 GMT
#1653
On June 02 2011 20:31 gosublade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 20:27 crabz wrote:
On June 02 2011 16:44 gosublade wrote:
Best part about pvp in D3 will be that fight no longer last <0.3 sec...

lol what? if anything pvp in d2 suffered from defwhoring, short duels were never a problem, so far i dont like what i see in d3 pvp system

I don't know what game you were playing but if one player started taking dam, one of the players was dead by the end of 3rd second at the latest

i dont know on what level were u playing but pvp in d2 was damn fine, maybe with few balance issues but those could be solved by setting rules,





if thats too short then i dont know how to help you
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-02 12:20:02
June 02 2011 12:16 GMT
#1654
One thing that always amuses me is people who try to make Diablo 2 pve and pvp as having some ridiculously high skill ceiling. Sure, doing playthroughs in Hell on HC with only items you find yourself can be fairly challenging at times, but lets be honest......maybe 1% of players do that? In all my time playing D2, I think I've played with maybe 10 people that were doing that? All most people do is rush to hell, get some ridiculous armor/weapons from a farming bot, and then do boss runs or do PvP. And for any of you under the delusion that PvP is some intensely skill-demanding competitive sport........Don't insult anyone's intelligence. It's really not anything special, and it sure isn't fun to watch.

+ Show Spoiler +
That said, I have honed some certain skills that aren't really too hard to come by if you actually play the game (it's people that actually play the game that are hard to come by). The big thing here is knowing how to level fast (because higher level people become richer faster). Leveling fast obviously takes the ability to just be able to move from monster to monster quickly and efficiently (like killing shamans first in act1). It requires knowing which skills to use (and when) and what items to go for for your build. It requires proper and quick inventory maintenance which can eventually shave off hours of wasted play time. The trickiest and probably least known thing about leveling fast (legitly) is knowing which games to join and when to leave your current game, which is a bit of a guessing game (in some senses akin to playing poker) - this is tied in to rushing yourself through the acts to do the baal runs.

I do not claim to have any difficult talents in the leveling department (other than maybe knowing when to leave current game and knowing how to find a better one).

So great, we're high level now. We happen to be a sorceress with very crappy mediocre gear, and the best thing for us to do is moat trick farm Mephisto until we get our shako/occy/travs/nagels/goldwrap/chancies/etc. First off you can have some crappy mediocre gear and still teleport through most of hell just fine WITHOUT A MAPHACK if you have the right mods on your crappy gear. You really need these mods and pretty much only these mods: faster cast rate, faster hit recovery, life, resists. In pretty much that order too (most people overlook faster hit recovery, a fatal mistake). There's different degrees of teleporting: you can teleport all the way to the corner of your screen which is really risky and might make you die, or you can play it safe and only teleport to just within the edge of your light radius. With experience you will know when you can be risky (edge of screen blind teleporting) and when you can't be.

And then there's the skill of knowing how to find the entrance to the next dungeon without a maphack. Once you have teleported to Catacombs Level 4, or Durance of Hate Level 3, or Throne of Destruction hundreds of times you start to subconsciously gravitate towards the right area a lot of the time. Personally, I bet I would win some sort of legit mephisto teleporting triple elimination tournament against 31 other random players 9 times out of 10.

Great. We've farmed Mephisto for a while, and now we have some decent items for trade. There used to be a time when there was no such thing as currency (a time where I thrived). If you really knew what you were doing, you would become extremely intimate with the market value of every item. "Buy low, sell high". In a lot of other games this is almost a waste of time, but not so in D2 (even current day). There are a lot of dumb people out there who have good items and do not know what they're worth, so they're willing to let them go at a fraction of what they're worth. There is a certain skill in being able to find these people, and yet another skill to be able to convince them to trade with you while also making them think they're getting a good deal. I'm pretty good at this stuff (used to be a lot better), but my brother is like the fucking master at it. It was far from uncommon that he would take a single item worth very little and a few hours later have an item worth 20 or more times that item AND another two of the items (and then repeat with higher value items). Even in these d2jsp days he has taken an item worth ~40fg and traded it for an item worth 400+fg. Several if not dozens of times.

In the past four ladder resets I have reached the top 10 on the overall ladder by the 20-30 hour mark (and thats with taking a good night's sleep and some time to prepare food etc AFTER the reset). And then only to be overtaken by legions of sorceress/hammerdin bots because people are beginning to set them up.

Anyways, I won't really have the much of the "spare time" half of the equation when D3 hits. Oh well. I'm not sure what you really want from me. You think I'm going to give you all of my secrets, or you never really tried to play the game the way it was supposed to be played? You can believe what you want.


And please, for the love of all things good, don't make posts like this. I'm almost saddened. The game is NOT difficult by any stretch of the imagination, and deluding yourself that you have top 100 sorc teleporting skill is about the saddest thing I've ever read. That comes from mindlessly playing the same thing about 5000 times, not from skill. Anyone can do that if they have 12 hours a day to spend doing Baal runs.


Back to D3....All I hope for is no map-hacks, no bots, and a mildly interesting PvP. Heck, if they could remove every bot and map-hack permanently, and balance D2 pvp, I think I'd go back to playing it. But D2 isn't fun when everyone can have the same ridiculously high level gear due to some guy running 800 bots that can do Baal runs in 15 minutes, and selling the proceeds.
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-02 12:43:46
June 02 2011 12:38 GMT
#1655
On June 02 2011 20:57 crabz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 20:31 gosublade wrote:
On June 02 2011 20:27 crabz wrote:
On June 02 2011 16:44 gosublade wrote:
Best part about pvp in D3 will be that fight no longer last <0.3 sec...

lol what? if anything pvp in d2 suffered from defwhoring, short duels were never a problem, so far i dont like what i see in d3 pvp system

I don't know what game you were playing but if one player started taking dam, one of the players was dead by the end of 3rd second at the latest

i dont know on what level were u playing but pvp in d2 was damn fine, maybe with few balance issues but those could be solved by setting rules,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej1v5BWab6U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL7Q186h89Y

if thats too short then i dont know how to help you


bowazon, foh pala, ww assa.... are you trolling or do you have a mental handicap?
I'll bring an example from Counter Strike, the fps game. There, if you see an enemy at modest range, and you both are out in the open:
a)For first-timers, the battle might last for 1 minute or until one runs out of bullets
b)If player who have played the game for 7+ years, the battle lasts for 2 seconds at best.


The example you brought is some pve geared noobs fighting for fun and for that, your argument is invalid
What I meant was pvp between players who are geared for pvp and actually know what they are doing
Not even death can save you from me.
crabz
Profile Joined May 2011
227 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-02 13:02:51
June 02 2011 13:02 GMT
#1656
those are top non ladder duelers (ladder is a joke) using close to perfect equipement and char builds/item setups developed after years of testing . now fade away u clueless vermin i wont even bother to answer your next posts because u seem to be completly clueless in that subject
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
June 02 2011 13:06 GMT
#1657
On June 02 2011 22:02 crabz wrote:
those are top non ladder duelers (ladder is a joke) using close to perfect equipement and char builds/item setups developed after years of testing . now fade away u clueless vermin i wont even bother to answer your next posts because u seem to be completly clueless in that subject

You're taking Diablo 2 pvp WWWWAAAAYYYYYYY too seriously.

I almost spit out my coffee I laughed so hard.
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
June 02 2011 13:15 GMT
#1658
On June 02 2011 22:02 crabz wrote:
those are top non ladder duelers (ladder is a joke) using close to perfect equipement and char builds/item setups developed after years of testing . now fade away u clueless vermin i wont even bother to answer your next posts because u seem to be completly clueless in that subject

Please don't, people may take you seriously
Not even death can save you from me.
EternalSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden313 Posts
June 02 2011 13:15 GMT
#1659
So far it looks like this game is gonna be sooo good!
SHIT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!
gosublade
Profile Joined May 2011
632 Posts
June 02 2011 13:25 GMT
#1660
Storyline is #2 on my list I'm most exited about in D3. Cant wait for Azmodan and Belial to be stirring up some shit.
Not even death can save you from me.
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