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The Kings of TvP & Their Innovations

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RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9950 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-03 20:50:31
December 03 2007 19:03 GMT
#1
Disclaimer: This is a very theoretical approach to the history of the TvP matchup. I know my progaming knowledge lacks a bit on a few areas, so feel free to give me some feedback, so that I can edit the article appropriately. Also, English is not my native language, so chances that you'll find my sentence constructions enjoyable are very slim.




1. Introduction

Throughout the years, the standard gameflow of a Terran vs Protoss game has evolved alot, through a series of innovations, both strategicalwise, and ofcourse in general game mechanics-wise. Everytime a player introduced a playing style, he of course knew it better and played it better than any other player. He then entered a (short) period of domination, where the other race starts looking for an efficient countering style, while the other players of the same race start what in latin was called 'non imitatio sed amelioratio' (non imitating, but improving with additions).

If you look at the history of the TvP matchup, you can see this 'ping-pongpattern'.
With this article I'm going to try to shed some Light on this ping-pongpattern, and how TvP evolved to what it became today. I'm mainly going to discuss it from a Terran point of view though.

2. The Early Days

In the pre-replay days, players relied mainly on their own creativity to determine their build order and how they adapted and reacted to a certain other style. Everything was possible, as real knowledge of the matchup had not yet spread. TvP was not yet the absolute science it sometimes seems nowadays. This, of course, had also something to do with the maps that were played back then. Most of the old maps were micro oriented (think of Jungle Story for example).

Therefore, the so-called 'ping-pongpattern' did not yet exist back then. Even after replays were introduced and the last balance patch was added, it still took a pretty long time till the first real innovation.

Standard TvP was either a 2Fac build or an FE followed by a slowpush (spread out tanks with mines and turrets).
Ofcourse, there were already dominant players, with their own style. (T)V-Gundam for example, executed the same build order almost every game, with such precision, timing and micro, that even when his opponents knew 2 weeks in advance that it was coming, they still could not stop it. Though his trademark 'gundamrush' seemed simple, it's theory was forked to deal with every single possible counter in an appropriate way, an agressive build that was highly adaptable.
On the protoss side, (P)IntoTheRain, also had his (less complex) trademark buildorder, starting with an early reaver, and controlling it with pure excellence. It was not a 'smart' build, but he sure knew how to use it, even when they saw it coming.

These guys, however, did not start a revolution, they did not make other people intensively copy them and force the other race to experiment with build-orders. You won't hear anyone ever say 'you remember, back in the day when everyone gundamrushed? that'd be so easy to counter now'.

A real TvP king arose in 2002, when Lee Yoon Yeol won the 2nd KPGA through the defeat of (P)fOru and (P)IntoTheRain, back then feared PvT players.

3. Spring 2002 - Spring 2003: (T)NaDa's dominance

Some maps changed and became more macrofriendly, other maps stayed, and people discovered there was another way to play them too.

During this year-long period of dominance, (T)NaDa mainly executed his Tornado terran build that also gave him the nickname he still has today.

His Tornado terran build featured a fast expansion covered by siege mode first, followed by a 2 base-macro build. He constantly pumped tanks from 2 factories while pumping vultures from the other ones, and actively harassing with those vultures. (T)NaDa's (back then) extraordinary multitasking made it possible for him to harass with high efficiency while macro'ing perfectly. The vulture harass was a huge burden for the Protosses, realizing they needed a third base in order not to get outmacroed by the Terran, but they had to protect all three bases from these vultureraids.

(T)NaDa followed this lengthy harass up by a fast timing push with a huge tank force right before Protoss could get his zealspeed up.

Between May 2002 and March 2003, (T)NaDa only lost 3 TvP games.

Protosses had a hard time countering it. Of course, various cheeses could always be used, but (T)NaDa had excellent scouting and game feel, and they failed more often than not.

Some may say it's the Bonjwa Curse, but after March 2003, Protoss seemed to have found the counter. They went for a somewhat later third expo, making it easier to deal with the vulture harass, and a earlier citadel (often paired with a zealbomb shuttle). Protosses like (P)Reach and (P)Kingdom were the only ones able to get this right for a while, but (T)NaDa's dominance had been broken. He remained a very strong player nonetheless.

It didn't take long till the next dominance though, poor protosses. We all know who's coming up, he's strong, he's young, he's a beast and he's not Manifesto7.

4. 2004: The Gorilla age

(T)iloveoov's prime was the most brutal dominance the professional brood war scene has yet experienced. Late 2003 he raged through TriGem MSL, followed by the CEN Game MSL and the SPRIS MSL. Then he continued to win his 1st OSL, an epic one, EVER 2004.

Protoss builds, then concentrated on the FE followed by timing rush, fell to (T)iloveoov's completely macro-oriented gamestyle. (T)iloveoov played defensively after FE, with practically no vult harass. Instead, he invested his gorilla cash in another command center, and got his third base as fast as he deemed he could.

Eventhough his TvZ was more untoucheable than his TvP back then, no Protoss was considered a favourite over (T)Oov.

Almost every single one of them tried to prevent (T)Oov from going into his crazy macro mode, with timed attacks, but (T)Oov adapted well to the Protoss build and got his expansion always JUST in time.

Then, he reached the EVER2004 OSL Semi-finals, where he met no one other than (P)Reach. Man vs Beast ensued. Everyone remembers the game on Mercury. If you haven't seen it, read this:

Interview with (T)Oov after his semi-finals vs (P)Reach
It was very hard. I felt so down after loosing to (P)Reach in the first game by units. (P)Reach didn't do harassing or any other thing but went purely mass units and all I could do was blcok,block,block. Later in the game I was disgusted with his unit production. I was so surprised. I never lost a game with mass units vs mass units.


That's right, instead of looking for a hole in (T)iloveoov's macro builds, (P)Reach tried to beat him in his own field, macro, and he succeeded. (T)Oov went on to win the series with a bit of luck, as he says himself in the interview, but his TvP was no longer invincible.

(T)iloveoov and (T)NaDa remained the strongest Terran players on the progaming rosters (although anyone could make a statement about (T)XellOs here), till around Spring 2005, when, due to the death of (T)NaDa's dad, (T)NaDa went into a slump.

TvP was a stable matchup, and no real domination was ever reestablished after EVER2004 in TvP. There were however, still a few major innovations.

5. Baby Bear Terran

In 2005 rumours were flying around about (T)Ddang[gm], nowadays more known as (T)Midas[gm]. He was said to have the best semi-pro TvP around, and that at the age of 17. He went on to win numerous games with his then-called "(T)Midas rush". Today we refer to this 'rush' as FD-Terran. To that day, Protosses had 2 very clear forks in their build: one to deal with an agressive 2fact-build and one to deal with a defensive FE-build. (T)Midas used his FD-rush, which features a quick tank, 4 rines and a vulture with spider mines, to fake a 2FacRush, and then safely, but very quickly, expand.

Terrans quickly started adopting this build, that was unlike (T)NaDa's Tornado build, not so difficult to master in order of timing. Protosses were having a hard time. They needed to expand quickly, they needed obs vs mines, and an adequate goon number to stop the tank-rine-vulture agression. Goon micro had however improved a lot over the years, and they found out that this was only possible if they didnt make the obs till much later. 2Gate Powergoon was born.

2Gate Powergoon doesn't really hard counter FD-Terran though. It gives Protoss a quick expansion, but also gives Terran a quick expansion. A new standard gameflow of TvP was established, one that still determines the average game you play on ICCup, or the progame you watch on your GOMPlayer.

5. Conclusion

The TvP game you play today is an offspring of all these evolutions. Of course, you don't always FD. And, of course, a 2 base timing rush still works. Build-orders co-exist, but were harder to counter during certain periods. Do also not forget that these evolutions relied heavily on map evolutions. Remember how Sin Cultivation Period brought TvP 3 years back in time?

But, to me, it seems like TvP is one of the hardest matchups to master strategically-wise. You have so many options, yet the smallest changes can introduce huge differences. And that's why I like TvP, it's a matchup no person will ever COMPLETELY understand, otherwise he'd always be one step ahead of the other player.



Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
FunFluffyBunny
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Sweden1696 Posts
December 03 2007 19:15 GMT
#2
Excellent read, I enjoyed it very much. Good work
Sanity.
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States704 Posts
December 03 2007 19:25 GMT
#3
very nice except take the BeSt link out TLPD messed it up! :p
BalloonFight
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States2007 Posts
December 03 2007 19:26 GMT
#4
Great read RaGe, I enjoyed it.
ATeddyBear
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Canada2843 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-03 19:28:03
December 03 2007 19:26 GMT
#5
What about shadow rush

p.s awesome article, potential final edit
Professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world’s first analrapist.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
December 03 2007 19:30 GMT
#6
Nowadays a more modern trend is to fake FD, enticing a 2gate hard goon rush into FE, and then hitting with an early 2fact tank timing attack.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
anch
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States5457 Posts
December 03 2007 19:45 GMT
#7
good work
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
December 03 2007 19:50 GMT
#8
would like to watch that game on mercury reach vs oov but the TLPD vod doesnt work, then i downloaded the video and it doesnt work either, gom player pops up with some error message.

help plz? =D
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Sadir
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Vatican City State1176 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-03 20:04:15
December 03 2007 19:56 GMT
#9
I really liked this articl, ty very much

ps:
someone has a youtube link to this game
oov vs reach on mercury?
can't find it O_o

nvm: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/280_iloveoov_vs_Reach/vod
HonkHonkBeep
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
China353 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-03 20:08:26
December 03 2007 20:00 GMT
#10
Nice read, nice TLPD-ize got some funny ones in there "(Z)Flying " "(P)BeSt"
God is cruel; sometimes he makes us live.
YinYang69
Profile Joined July 2007
United States255 Posts
December 03 2007 20:05 GMT
#11
Great article. I read it all the way through. Nice to see the evolution I just got back into starcraft 5 months ago and started watching proscene 3 months ago so this was a nice history lesson.
Keep it simple stupid.
trollbone
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
France1905 Posts
December 03 2007 20:14 GMT
#12
very good read I LOVE this article, if we had one for each matchup it would be so cool !!!
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
December 03 2007 20:14 GMT
#13
Nice read. I love NaDa.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
December 03 2007 20:15 GMT
#14
Good read. Thanks
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
Emptyness
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Bulgaria1016 Posts
December 03 2007 20:18 GMT
#15
Great article. Thanks, RaGe !
Fall down 9 times, Get up 10.
ZeusAlmighty
Profile Joined December 2007
10 Posts
December 03 2007 20:25 GMT
#16
I like Nada the best; although Iloveoov's reign of macro was indisputable.
CapO
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1615 Posts
December 03 2007 20:25 GMT
#17
this belongs in the "Featured Threads" =] awesome article
SNSD fan
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25996 Posts
December 03 2007 20:29 GMT
#18
Interesting. I haven't followed many progames until recently, nor did I used to follow TvP. So it's interesting to understand when these builds were dominant and how the flow evolved.

Thanks for this article.
Moderator
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9950 Posts
December 03 2007 20:32 GMT
#19
Thanks for the awesome feedback guys. I was first gonna implement map changes and their influence on the matchup changes, but I didn't have enough time, maybe I'll change that later.
Changed the TLPD errors too.
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
HonkHonkBeep
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
China353 Posts
December 03 2007 20:35 GMT
#20
On December 04 2007 05:32 (P)Rage wrote:
Thanks for the awesome feedback guys. I was first gonna implement map changes and their influence on the matchup changes, but I didn't have (Z)Enough time, maybe I'll change that later.
Changed the TLPD errors too.


Not that it's a problem or anything but if you actually do care to change the TLPD errors then I thought I'd just point out that you've also got (P)Much

oo look at your quote :O
God is cruel; sometimes he makes us live.
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