The Kings of TvP & Their Innovations - Page 9

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

April 24 2008 04:19 GMT

#161

On April 24 2008 00:26 Resonate wrote:
i don't think you can say flash revolutionised terran when it was something any terran would do in response to the real revolution which was toss going FE>Reaver every single game.

Flash just happened to be on top at the time so you give him credit for something he's best at but didn't really invent at all. Lots of terrans use these builds, it's their continual use and the analysis of their faliures which produces the strict build-orders ppl like flash use now.

I think a new set of maps (as we now have) will see new trends again, but they're overall trends not one person inventing a revolution. If it's that great a change then it will have a weak spot which opposing players will adapt to.

While i agree that a change of maps will bring about new styles and such, the one issue i have is that 2base reaver has been around since Bisu's OSL appearance in 2006 (Shinhan 2 iirc) and had never been countered by anything like Flash's build. Generally Terran's opted to use turrets and/or wraith to do the same job as the goliaths

flash changed it, what do you have to say

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

April 24 2008 09:10 GMT

#162

you're slightly wrong plexa in that flash's build that we're discussing is tailored to making a reaver drop a substantial investment by way of making it completely useless

a terran who doesnt make any goliaths (basically countless thousands of games) against a reaver drop is sinking time and money into defending it. it was never a substantial investment to reaver drop in those games, as even if the reaver does little to no damage, the protoss is completely safe to pull even economically. this is because of two things:

first, the reaver harass forces a terran to spend extra resources on properly defending against it, resources which go to depots and units otherwise, creating a more streamlined, powerful build.

second, even a terran who successfully repels a reaver drop without any losses can no longer move out at a timing that punishes a protoss for taking economic control, providing that protoss is sensible and not a complete moron. this second point is a direct result of the first. Flash's goliaths serve not only as a preventative measure against reaver drops in his own base, but as a way of taking that push-breaking weapon away from an expanding Protoss.

What Flash's build did more than repel reaver drops was allow him to continue using a streamlined and efficient build order that allows him access to many different attack timings. A protoss who reaver drops Flash when he's using this build will find himself at an economic disadvantage rather than on even of superior footing. The reality of reaver drops against other fast expansion builds is that regardless of the specific costs of the reaver drop, a reaver drop will not put you at a disadvantage.

Of course, this only really applies to pros, because Joe Fuckwit with 100 apm at D- does not know how to play out of a reaver drop.

RaGe

Belgium9950 Posts

January 07 2009 12:40 GMT

#163

I'm thinking of writing a PvZ version of this article in February. I didn't follow the evolution of PvZ as closely in the early days, but there's been some interesting changes in recent history.

Is there anyone with a good knowledge of old strategical PvZ history that would want to assist me in writing that article?

alffla

Hong Kong20321 Posts

January 07 2009 14:13 GMT

#164

plexa's blog about daezang inventing the CORSAIRRR DAAKEUUuuu might help im sure..

KOFgokuon

United States14912 Posts

January 08 2009 16:14 GMT

#165

nice read

InfeSteD

United States4658 Posts

January 08 2009 17:18 GMT

#166

On January 07 2009 21:40 RaGe wrote:
I'm thinking of writing a PvZ version of this article in February. I didn't follow the evolution of PvZ as closely in the early days, but there's been some interesting changes in recent history.

Is there anyone with a good knowledge of old strategical PvZ history that would want to assist me in writing that article?

How old though? Grrr's old or Nal_ra's old?

RaGe

Belgium9950 Posts

January 08 2009 17:35 GMT

#167

atleast back to garimto/grr days yes

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