EPTThe Kings of TvP & Their Innovations - Page 5
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20665 Posts
On December 04 2007 15:39 IaniAniaN wrote: Who's the best TvP right now though? I mean, Midas is slumping pretty bad right now, Mind has proven himself, but not against the likes of Stork or even an on form Bisu (using better builds, situationally at least). What about Sea? I heard some people talk about how he, like Bisu, relies on insane mechanics to drive his PvT. However, not playing Terran (I'm going to correct this soon enough), I fail to understand what he does exactly. I do however know he's a macro monstrosity, I saw a 30 minute game of him against Bisu on Luna. They were at a complete stalemate for the duration and each held half the map. Bisu conceded, I'm not sure why, but Sea and him displayed some awesome macro. What, the Luna game with Bisu bottom right, Terran top left? Lots of goons lost to mines? The Terran in that particular replay is actually Mind :x [He uses Sea.So. I checked the key signature/action distribution, it seems to match Mind's] | ||
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KTFKentatsu
Philippines178 Posts
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
On December 04 2007 15:54 KTFKentatsu wrote: uhh... im a noob... educate me... what's FD? Fake double, it forces the P to make 2 gateways to be able to deal with the first Marine/1vult/1tank attack, the attack isn't meant to win the game, but it forces 2 gates and allows for a safer expo. LastRomantic, thanks for telling me, I was always impressed by that T's macro, and I thought it was Sea[Shield] (I think that's what was written). Maybe I would have given Mind more respect before the MSL finals if I had known it was really him, sick macro, but inconclusive game however (Bisu refused to tech to arbiters or something like that. | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
On December 04 2007 17:18 ahole-surprise wrote: Where can I find this replay of  Sea.so (Mind) vs  Bisu on Luna?Search the forums for a Bisu replay compilation, most of his stuff's there. I was actually surprised on how Much faster Bisu got in 2006 as compared to 2005, he used to be a 260 apm player who lost to Pusan (330), now he's out there raping  sAviOr and Xell0s at about 310 apm. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
On December 04 2007 15:18 Overlord wrote: Now I've never heard of that, care to explain? Also, I'm pretty sure metal usage was invented pre1.08. I remember watching replays when 1.08 came out, and wondering what could protoss do against that  I also remember reading a tvp guide pre1.08 written by a (german?) player called Thor, who was considered among the best back then iirc, which described metal usage.I believe Thor was canadian(or american) If it was [s]thor aka Unfaithful aka guy who went to Korea with Pillars and Maynard for a while. I think he played zerg and protoss. Maybe random then.To me Sea seems like the best TvPer technically, but he is outsmarted some times hence he doesnt win as much as he could potentially. | ||
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soonsu
France166 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On December 04 2007 09:52 RaGe wrote: yeah, what he means is you show him 1tank 4 rine and 1 vult, make him 2gate powergoon FE, and then roll over him with 2fact tank/vult, while he has 5-6 goons and no obs I don't know where you got the idea of 4 rine from. Its always at least 5, usually 6 or 7 marines. Also Boxer does deserve some mention. He was the first person to effectively use the 2 tank/dropship build. At his peak he was downright SCARY with the build. Often doing very large amount of damage even when the opponent was completely expecting it. His micro was just that much better than his peers. Also you could make a case for crediting TheMarine with inventing/perfecting the proper slow push technique. All in all though, a fantastic write up. Thanks. | ||
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
On December 04 2007 18:43 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I don't know where you got the idea of 4 rine from. Its always at least 5, usually 6 or 7 marines. Also Boxer does deserve some mention. He was the first person to effectively use the 2 tank/dropship build. At his peak he was downright SCARY with the build. Often doing very large amount of damage even when the opponent was completely expecting it. His micro was just that much better than his peers. Also you could make a case for crediting TheMarine with inventing/perfecting the proper slow push technique. All in all though, a fantastic write up. Thanks. I don't play enough T to know exactly, but I've seen 4 plenty of times from my opponents. | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
I also find Bisus style so interesting... | ||
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Schnake
Germany2819 Posts
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Overlord
Romania651 Posts
On December 04 2007 18:41 soonsu wrote: iirc [B_Blade]Leader invented heavy metal It was Iron Maiden, wtf Edit: Screw it, I dunno which band invented it, but you've got the idea | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
I completly agree with you on the strategic depth of tvp and the choices one got nowadays. That's why timing pushes are so crutial these days. They have to come just in time to succeed. I kinda had the feeling that 2fact punches had a good comback when iris used them very precise. The windows overall have gotten very small. It's like you can see how a certain strategy triggers a countdown and progamers hit right when they have to. Like a knife that when used properly cuts very deep. | ||
RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On December 04 2007 17:37 iamke55 wrote: Could you include something about the rise and fall of wall-ins, slow pushes, dropship builds, and 2 fact vulture openings in amateur and pro level play? I'm confused about why people stopped walling in, why didn't they stop earlier, why they used to wall in TvT as well, why people stop going for a slow push like in the famous old boxer replays, when and why it stopped being used, and why it didn't die out earlier. hmm i could do that yeah.. I'll see if i have time any of these days | ||
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Zajoman
Slovakia16 Posts
On December 04 2007 14:33 Cambium wrote: Do you have the replay or how do you know? Very nicely written. Just a comment on the Oov vs. Reach game, I thought the only reason why Oov lost his macro war was because a few of his 10 factories did not produce because they were so tightly packed. He got the unit exit blocked error instead of receiving units. | ||
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On December 05 2007 05:42 Zajoman wrote: Do you have the replay or how do you know? i think his top left factory got that error, but he floated it a bit later, no? | ||
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