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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On March 28 2011 04:57 SiguR wrote:
I actually think Idra's games against cruncher showed that idra is one of the best players out there. In games one and two his macro was INSANE. Did you see his spread on shakuras?
As a masters league zerg who tries to keep up my macro and spread overlords and creep like that, I was blown away. I have sat alone against easy computers and tried over and over to do something similar, and I can't. I'm surprised more people aren't making more of a big deal about how good it was.
yeah no kidding, in game 2, Idra was up 100 supply basically the entire game. Cruncher knew after that game that Idra is basically an unstoppable force, so he knew the only way to win game 3 was to do Idras weakness, a basic all-in. I mean i dont think you can deny that Crunchers forcefield was really nice in game 3, but still, just because Idra lost the series does'nt mean hes the lesser player, i think things like this just happen.
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@Greeny, I just think it's funny that people feel that the only way to open up an analysis argument is to say: "Oh I'm not very good, I'm just in 3000 Masters, BUT I THINK..." Also, I'm not sure how I ignored Tyree's analysis. He doesn't understand how much Idra outplayed (outmacroed) Cruncher in a macro game, and was still somehow able to beat Idra with a unit comp that Idra was prepared for, but couldn't do anything against.
wait wait wait....I started the credentials argument...SERIOUSLY? Hahaha, you're kidding right? How does me commenting on his knowledge of the matchup = credentials. He doesn't get the MATCHUP, he could be in the Grandmaster league for all I care. If he thinks going hive would've helped Idra then he's confused. Day9 said that during a casted game where he has to think of things to say to entertain the viewers. Day9 will look back and say that, oh yeah, hive tech wouldn't have helped Idra.
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On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it 
Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays?
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On March 28 2011 04:55 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:52 ratMortar wrote:On March 28 2011 04:49 GreEny K wrote:
Having to use hallucinate as a means of scouting cuts into your sentry energy and means you have to have a sentry heavy army if you want to have constant scouting. That is not a problem if you wish to follow that tech path anyway, but what if you don't want to? Then you are forced to change the way you play. Aaaaaand now we can go back to talking about how fucked zerg is. Yeah I guess we can, but that's not the point. People are trashing a good player and saying he is a scrub who just all-ins. Well guess what, he used strategies that work against Zerg, if you do not do that then I would call you dense. What did you want him to do? Play gateway expand into more expand while massing army? Yeah because if I play a better player I totally tend to make him more comfortable while playing into his play-style.
Well I hate how those games went but I'm not trashing Cruncher. It's a tournament with a big prize pool and he did what he needed to win. He could have 4-gated all 3 games for all I care.
But watching those games, there's a clear skill gap between the two in both macro and micro. IdrA was multitasking throughout the whole series making Cruncher run back and forth to keep up. Cruncher also lost a lot of units needlessly (saw a lot of pheonix shot down by IdrA). I just don't agree that Cruncher is as good a player as IdrA; not even close, but by no means would I say he's bad.
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On March 28 2011 04:59 GreEny K wrote:
Well, not sure if you know this... But that refers to saying anything else but "GG", if you want to leave without saying anything they would not penalize you.
Preparing for that huge death-ball is hard but I've seen it beaten by timing pushes that hit before he can even get those large numbers out.
"- When surrendering in a match, only "gg' and "GG" will be legal/accepted" equals: quiting without GG = disqualification. It is only "gg" and nothing else.
At least that is how I read it...
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On March 28 2011 04:57 SiguR wrote:
I actually think Idra's games against cruncher showed that idra is one of the best players out there. In games one and two his macro was INSANE. Did you see his spread on shakuras?
As a masters league zerg who tries to keep up my macro and spread overlords and creep like that, I was blown away. I have sat alone against easy computers and tried over and over to do something similar, and I can't. I'm surprised more people aren't making more of a big deal about how good it was.
Yes, I think despite the loss there is no denying that he did play well the first game and did extremely well the second game. Not sure what happened the third game, but he did really well the first two game and showed how much of a monster he is. I was shocked to see Shakuras almost completely covered in creep. Although it was sad to see him lose, generally that Protoss turtle style on Shakuras is very strong and has to be hit before the Toss reaches 200/200. Brood Lords would have been a good if IdrA had gotten them before Cruncher hit 200/200 and didn't have Void Ray's & Blink Stalkers.
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On March 28 2011 05:04 JinNJuice wrote:
@Greeny, I just think it's funny that people feel that the only way to open up an analysis argument is to say: "Oh I'm not very good, I'm just in 3000 Masters, BUT I THINK..." Also, I'm not sure how I ignored Tyree's analysis. He doesn't understand how much Idra outplayed (outmacroed) Cruncher in a macro game, and was still somehow able to beat Idra with a unit comp that Idra was prepared for, but couldn't do anything against.
Think about it.
Ok, using your own logic, Cruncher realized that IdrA tends to overmacro drones (which every person in the world knows) so he went with a strategy to punish him... And considering you were belittling another poster and saying he doesn't know anything about the game, that is the only reason I posted about that comment. I seriously doubt you are a good enough player to know the ins and outs of the games and to be able to dismiss Tryee's comments and analysis.
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What's the point of this argument? I'm clearly missing it, because to me it seems like you're talking about something that should be in the LR thread.
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On March 28 2011 05:06 Junichi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:59 GreEny K wrote:
Well, not sure if you know this... But that refers to saying anything else but "GG", if you want to leave without saying anything they would not penalize you.
Preparing for that huge death-ball is hard but I've seen it beaten by timing pushes that hit before he can even get those large numbers out. "- When surrendering in a match, only "gg' and "GG" will be legal/accepted" equals: quiting without GG = disqualification. It is only "gg" and nothing else. At least that is how I read it...
Aha, I see. WW is also accepted, I guess that is the Korean equivalent to gg.
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On March 28 2011 05:01 Junichi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:57 SiguR wrote:
I actually think Idra's games against cruncher showed that idra is one of the best players out there. In games one and two his macro was INSANE. Did you see his spread on shakuras?
I was blown away. This! Maybe he should incorporate some of this aggressive play of game 2 into his macro of game 1. It seems to me as if that would improve his PvZ. Whatever he does I am hopeful he will find something... :-)
You dont take the map layout into the consideration. The pre-patch shakuras with free and supersafe from everything 3rd for toss makes it awesome to play ZvP there.
These matches showed 2 things todays : Idra's SICK macro/creep spread/scouting and how much better you actually have to be to win an "okay" protoss, outplaying him alot wont guarantie you a win, you need to be like 10x better to be safe. Or maybe have alittle luck aswell with your educated guesses on what P is doing and whats his timing. Like 3rd game Idra had a round of roaches coming in a next couple of seconds, ~10 sec difference there, maybe different FF outcome and he would easily defend that push and win 99% from there
Also these FF are extremely annoying, i think making units stack into each other like that is borderline imbalanced
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On March 28 2011 05:07 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:04 JinNJuice wrote:
@Greeny, I just think it's funny that people feel that the only way to open up an analysis argument is to say: "Oh I'm not very good, I'm just in 3000 Masters, BUT I THINK..." Also, I'm not sure how I ignored Tyree's analysis. He doesn't understand how much Idra outplayed (outmacroed) Cruncher in a macro game, and was still somehow able to beat Idra with a unit comp that Idra was prepared for, but couldn't do anything against.
Think about it. Ok, using your own logic, Cruncher realized that IdrA tends to overmacro drones (which every person in the world knows) so he went with a strategy to punish him... And considering you were belittling another poster and saying he doesn't know anything about the game, that is the only reason I posted about that comment. I seriously doubt you are a good enough player to know the ins and outs of the games and to be able to dismiss Tryee's comments and analysis.
Jesus, this is hilarious. It's like you need to be #1 GSL champion fucking hero to be able to argue with anyone these days because of "credentials." Tryee's analysis was wrong...plain and simple. I don't need to be oGsMC to argue that. I'm talking about Game 1, macro vs. macro, Cruncher gets outmacroed, and still is able to produce a unit army that beat Idras unit comp, even with Idra at a 3-base advantage. How does my credentials have anything to do with this. Every argument doesn't have to go into personal attacks, I wasn't personally attacking Tryee, I was just saying that his analysis was wrong.
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On March 28 2011 05:09 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:07 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 05:04 JinNJuice wrote:
@Greeny, I just think it's funny that people feel that the only way to open up an analysis argument is to say: "Oh I'm not very good, I'm just in 3000 Masters, BUT I THINK..." Also, I'm not sure how I ignored Tyree's analysis. He doesn't understand how much Idra outplayed (outmacroed) Cruncher in a macro game, and was still somehow able to beat Idra with a unit comp that Idra was prepared for, but couldn't do anything against.
Think about it. Ok, using your own logic, Cruncher realized that IdrA tends to overmacro drones (which every person in the world knows) so he went with a strategy to punish him... And considering you were belittling another poster and saying he doesn't know anything about the game, that is the only reason I posted about that comment. I seriously doubt you are a good enough player to know the ins and outs of the games and to be able to dismiss Tryee's comments and analysis. Jesus, this is hilarious. It's like you need to be #1 GSL champion fucking hero to be able to argue with anyone these days because of "credentials." Tryee's analysis was wrong...plain and simple. I don't need to be oGsMC to argue that. I'm talking about Game 1, macro vs. macro, Cruncher gets outmacroed, and still is able to produce a unit army that beat Idras unit comp, even with Idra at a 3-base advantage. How does my credentials have to do anything with this.
No he was not wrong. I'm saying that YOU were dismissing his analysis for lack of his game knowledge. Nobody said anything about credentials until you said he did not know what he was talking about.
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On March 28 2011 05 :04 JinNJuice wrote:
@Greeny, I just think it's funny that people feel that the only way to open up an analysis argument is to say: "Oh I'm not very good, I'm just in 3000 Masters, BUT I THINK..." Also, I'm not sure how I ignored Tyree's analysis.
JNJ, i did not analyse the game, i simply laid out what units Idra and Cruncher made, and why Idra hit max supply first, are you, on purpose simply ignoring what the entire point of it was?
When you asked me what units Idra should have made, i already said that was not my intent with my posts, i was reponding to another guy here who could not understand why a guy with more supply initially lost to someone with less.
You ignored all that and started with "credentials" meanwhile we have no knowledge of what kind of credentials (if any) you posses other than your self serving "iam right damnit!" attitude.
I am not going to enter into a pissing contest, i respect this site too much to get dragged down into some pointless discussion. The only credential you have proven to have is the ability to not even read what people post and put words into their mouths.
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On March 28 2011 05:09 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:07 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 05:04 JinNJuice wrote:
@Greeny, I just think it's funny that people feel that the only way to open up an analysis argument is to say: "Oh I'm not very good, I'm just in 3000 Masters, BUT I THINK..." Also, I'm not sure how I ignored Tyree's analysis. He doesn't understand how much Idra outplayed (outmacroed) Cruncher in a macro game, and was still somehow able to beat Idra with a unit comp that Idra was prepared for, but couldn't do anything against.
Think about it. Ok, using your own logic, Cruncher realized that IdrA tends to overmacro drones (which every person in the world knows) so he went with a strategy to punish him... And considering you were belittling another poster and saying he doesn't know anything about the game, that is the only reason I posted about that comment. I seriously doubt you are a good enough player to know the ins and outs of the games and to be able to dismiss Tryee's comments and analysis. Jesus, this is hilarious. It's like you need to be #1 GSL champion fucking hero to be able to argue with anyone these days because of "credentials." Tryee's analysis was wrong...plain and simple. I don't need to be oGsMC to argue that. I'm talking about Game 1, macro vs. macro, Cruncher gets outmacroed, and still is able to produce a unit army that beat Idras unit comp, even with Idra at a 3-base advantage. How does my credentials have anything to do with this.
Idra's weakness in his macro is that he makes too many drones sometimes... He had a lesser army that could not deal with the Protoss deathball.
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On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post.
Ya idra got outskilled by the 6gate allin in the 3rd game....
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On March 28 2011 05:13 flooko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post. Ya idra got outskilled by the 6gate allin in the 3rd game....
He already got banned for a terrible troll attempt. Let's ignore him.
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On March 28 2011 05:13 flooko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post. Ya idra got outskilled by the 6gate allin in the 3rd game....
And that game where he sat on 3bases and eventually a-moved...............
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Shrugs, this isn't a pissing contest really. I don't get why people have to personally invest themselves in every analysis they get into. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I'm belittling you or personally attacking you. It's just an argument. I just stated that yours was wrong. You can say mine's wrong too, just don't start going on about credentials and shit.
Nobody said anything about credentials until you said he did not know what he was talking about.
How is that me talking about his credentials. I just said that his statement of teching to hive was wrong because Idra would've lost even worse than he did.
Sorry if I'm coming across poorly, I'm just pissed at the games obviously.
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On March 28 2011 05:13 flooko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post. Ya idra got outskilled by the 6gate allin in the 3rd game....
It wasn't really an allin imo, Cruncher expanded.
I think Idra made the mistake of droning up when he should've pumped out speedlings/roaches.
The thing that got him was the sick 360 forcefield that pushed 4-5roaches in, and they couldn't attack or move.
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EPT
