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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
Btw, anyone know why this series was played on v1.2.2 when yesterday's games were on 1.3?
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On March 28 2011 05:04 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it  Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays?
Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct.
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Shrugs, this isn't a pissing contest really. I don't get why people have to personally invest themselves in every analysis they get into.
I did not analyse anything, i simply answered as to why Idra got supply capped faster. I did not say i could have done better or that Idra should have done XX or YX. I simply explained why he hit max supply faster, it is that simple. And being supply capped faster does not mean you played better, Zerg units are generally cheaper than Toss units, this is common knowledge.
Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I'm belittling you or personally attacking you. It's just an argument. I just stated that yours was wrong. You can say mine's wrong too, just don't start going on about credentials and shit.
Who brought up credentials JNJ? It was you.
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On March 28 2011 05:14 JinNJuice wrote:Shrugs, this isn't a pissing contest really. I don't get why people have to personally invest themselves in every analysis they get into. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I'm belittling you or personally attacking you. It's just an argument. I just stated that yours was wrong. You can say mine's wrong too, just don't start going on about credentials and shit. Show nested quote +Nobody said anything about credentials until you said he did not know what he was talking about. How is that me talking about his credentials. I just said that his statement of teching to hive was wrong because Idra would've lost even worse than he did. Sorry if I'm coming across poorly, I'm just pissed at the games obviously.
Disagreeing is one thing, but you did not just disagree, you completely dismissed his view of things and called him straight out wrong... Talk about personal investment.
And considering Day[9] said the same thing about teching to hive too late... I would agree with Tyree.
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Yeah but do you guys really all think that teching to Hive would've been the right decision? If that's the case then I'll stop arguing because it'll just never end.
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On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:04 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays? Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct.
So your saying that you overkill with corropurs then while your Corropurs morph to Broodlords, You kill him? (So the stalkers aren't allowed to shoot the morphing BL in this scenario?)
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On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:04 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays? Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct.
That makes no sense. He can overmake corrupters and then go hive and turn them into broods, he had 20+ corrupters and they got destroyed by voids. going broods earlier only would have been a faster loss. THERE IS A REASON BLIZZARD BUFFED FG IN 1.3. A couple fungals with corrupters would have destroyed those voidrays. Day9 was not exclusively wrong as it is not a bad idea to get hive early against voids but it would not have done anything in that situation. Imba map vs an imba strategy. You can disagree all you want. Blizzard changed it for a fucking reason. jesus.
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On March 28 2011 05:21 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:On March 28 2011 05:04 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays? Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct. Lol i'm not eve going to get into this one...I hope you're happy Greeny  . This statement is hilarious.
why are you directing that at me? I didn't once in all of my posts mention anything about massing corruptors. But since we're on the topic. Both Wheat and Sean did say that...
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I hope IdrA can step it up in time to MLG, he's been looking week for some time.. 
also why is it that there's always balance or strat discussion when you open up IdrA fanclub? it doesn't belong here!
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On March 28 2011 05:15 Almin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:13 flooko wrote:On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post. Ya idra got outskilled by the 6gate allin in the 3rd game.... The thing that got him was the sick 360 forcefield that pushed 4-5roaches in, and they couldn't attack or move.
As cool as it might be to watch, its not difficult to click in a circle. Commentators make a big deal to encourage crowd amusement, but nothing skillful goes on.
Multi-dropping hydralisks while keeping up larva injects and expanding. That is skill!!
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Never mind....I'm done. Lol I'm tired of arguing...I'll let others explain why I'm right.
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On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:
I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill.
Notice the massive amounts of Marines Jinro makes vs Zerg in many matchups? They are cheap and are created fast.
Again, go make the same units Cruncher and Idra made, and Idras way will max out much faster, it is simple mathematics at hand, cheaper faster built units max out faster than slower, more expensive units that even require many upgrades (which are also costly) to make.
It cant be used a measure of skill? Any person who has played the game knows that you are wrong. Its a measure of skill along with micro and anything else in the game.. its one of the factors. You are basically saying macro isnt a measure of skill. And if I play some pro and he has tons more units than me when we engage I can claim it has nothing to do with skill. And if you go three base and let the opponent get double your food, while he also gets upgrades, t2, drops etc, you are doing something wrong.
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On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:04 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays? Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct.
So all Idra needed to do was to make MORE corrupters when they clearly got destroyed by the void rays and after he kill all the air with this corrupters, he would back up them to be reinforced by his non-existent ground army to morph into broodlords?
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On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:
Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct.
Yeah, those corruptors really did wipe off those vrs and collos so he could had morphed the, oh wait no...
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On March 28 2011 05:02 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:56 Gaius Baltar wrote:
JinNJuice makes a good point about the credentials argument.
IdrA, I've always been a peripheral fan of yours. After today, you're one of my top 3 favorite players. Truly godly play today. The credentials argument was started by him, belittling another poster as having no knowledge of the game...
Fair enough. I just meant specifically that just because somebody doesn't have credentials, doesn't mean they are wrong. Chill said once in WoC that there are some top players who do well without understanding the game well. And there are some avid stream watchers who don't play at all but understand the game extremely well.
Edit: To add something on topic to this post, I must agree that IdrA's creep spread and map control in game one was nothing less than sublime. I've never been more impressed with IdrA than I was today. Keep in mind, I've been rather impressed with him in the past.
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Yeah nice ninja-edit on that one JNJ. I hope your next posts don't talk about personal investment and then show you completely ignoring what other people have to say due to you thinking you're right.
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On March 28 2011 05:23 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:21 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:On March 28 2011 05:04 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 05:02 Tyree wrote:On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup. Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right? Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this. I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill. I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it Then enlighten me because I'm really not seeing it. What does the Hive DO to stop Voidrays? Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct. Lol i'm not eve going to get into this one...I hope you're happy Greeny . This statement is hilarious. why are you directing that at me? I didn't once in all of my posts mention anything about massing corruptors. But since we're on the topic. Both Wheat and Sean did say that...
Day9 and Wheat spoke of overproducing corruptors and then having nothing to kill the groundforce. They pointed out, that it is not a good idea.
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im enjoying the argument about hive tech. parently people think that ultras n brood lords are rly good against void rays. not like they are armored, massive and cant hit air
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On March 28 2011 05:19 CodECleaR wrote:
Allows you to over kill on corruptors and make broods out of them after you wipe up his vr/collo, thus rendering stalkers loluseless. Get your facts straight--day9 was correct.
IdrA made 16 corrupters after losing his first group and still lost them to the void-rays. Hive tech wouldn't have done shit. I love Day9 but I don't care what he says here; hive would not have helped kill that death ball in any way, shape or form.
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On March 28 2011 05:25 Gaius Baltar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:02 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:56 Gaius Baltar wrote:
JinNJuice makes a good point about the credentials argument.
IdrA, I've always been a peripheral fan of yours. After today, you're one of my top 3 favorite players. Truly godly play today. The credentials argument was started by him, belittling another poster as having no knowledge of the game... Fair enough. I just meant specifically that just because somebody doesn't have credentials, doesn't mean they are wrong. Chill said once in WoC that there are some top players who do well without understanding the game well. And there are some avid stream watchers who don't play at all but understand the game extremely well.
I completely agree with you, I understand the game a hell of a lot better than I play it lol. Some things are weird like that, but that just goes to prove even more so that he was wrong for dismissing Tyree's statements since even if Tyree is not a great player (which i do not know) he could still have a deep understanding of the game.
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EPT
