|
Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On March 28 2011 04:49 GreEny K wrote:
Having to use hallucinate as a means of scouting cuts into your sentry energy and means you have to have a sentry heavy army if you want to have constant scouting. That is not a problem if you wish to follow that tech path anyway, but what if you don't want to? Then you are forced to change the way you play.
Aaaaaand now we can go back to talking about how fucked zerg is.
|
On March 28 2011 04:52 ABOOMAN wrote:
6gate is an allin, if u are doing it in 2k point diamond league and think its not it makes no difference to a reallity
Lol try 3500 masters...
|
On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis.
Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup.
|
IdrA loses a game and the fanclub thread is full of stupid "WELL THIS IS WHAT IDRA SHOULD HAVE DONE" posts....
At least game 2 was great.
|
On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:28 ratMortar wrote:
Game 1 could be argued as more of a PvZ balance issue
Game 3 was clearly a problem IdrA has discussed countless times: scouting.
By the time he figured out what Cruncher was doing he was dead. Did anyone notice that OL speed kicked in just as Cruncher had his pylon down and units wraping in? What good is speed when the all-in is already happening?
It's probably the point I agree with the most: make OL speed a hatch tech upgrade and make scan less energy for terrans. Make scouting easier to weaken all-ins. I'm tired of watching players (No, not just IdrA) who are just betterthan the people they're playing lose to these kind of shotty plays.
It's silly and it does nothing to vitalize e-sports. Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan.
it is also suggested that observers go cybernetics core tech or hallucination become way cheaper and faster to compliment those changes.
On March 28 2011 04:23 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:19 TUski wrote:On March 28 2011 04:17 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:11 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 04:08 WeedRa wrote:For not saying "gg" I think you deserve this loss  Do you know what gg means? This drives me nuts. Good game means the game was good. Game 1 wasn't good it's the classic MAKE VRS MAKE COLUSSUS MAKE STALKERS PUUUUUSH. I'm sad Cruncher didn't say gg because I thought game 2 was a good game. Lol you obviously don't know what you're talking about... GG does mean good game, but people say it no matter what the outcome of a game is. You think that pros in BW think a proxy rush is a gg? No, but they say it anyway.Sack up, every other player GG's even if they lose, IdrA is just being a drama queen as usual. On March 28 2011 04:10 Xadar wrote:
just shows that in sc2 every semi pro can beat the best player in the game because this game is so volatile and mechanically easy. really undeserved win by cruncher Lol, so when cruncher beats IdrA it's just a fault in the game but when Thorzain, qxc and goody beat Fruitdealer, Genius and Nestea it's the fact that foreigners are just as good as Koreans? Wow, double standard much? Just to clarify, Pros in BW are REQUIRED to say gg to surrender the game, or they are disqualified. "Lol you obviously don't know what you're talking about..." Thorzain, qxc, and goody played well. I can't say the same for Cruncher. Lol where did you get that information from? That is completely wrong... lol.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86291
- When surrendering in a match, only "gg' and "GG" will be legal/accepted
When not followed, this will result in an automatic disqualification and warning
So everyone that won played well except Cruncher... That doesn't make any sense at all lol. IdrA is a good player and wouldn't lose to someone who doesn't play well, I really don't understand how you are making your judgements. If there is a strategy that is really strong in a particular MU then why not use it... That's like not making units to counter the composition of your opponent, doesn't make sense
Well all of the other foreigners didn't all-in or use a strategy that many consider imbalanced. (from what I've seen) That why people are saying that the foreigners are good, but Cruncher is not. I'm not saying that Cruncher shouldn't have won, but I definitely lean more toward the IdrA supporter's side.
Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:19 JinNJuice wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 28 2011 04:17 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:11 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:08 WeedRa wrote:For not saying "gg" I think you deserve this loss Do you know what gg means? This drives me nuts. Good game means the game was good. Game 1 wasn't good it's the classic MAKE VRS MAKE COLUSSUS MAKE STALKERS PUUUUUSH. I'm sad Cruncher didn't say gg because I thought game 2 was a good game. Lol you obviously don't know what you're talking about... GG does mean good game, but people say it no matter what the outcome of a game is. You think that pros in BW think a proxy rush is a gg? No, but they say it anyway.Sack up, every other player GG's even if they lose, IdrA is just being a drama queen as usual. On March 28 2011 04:10 Xadar wrote:
just shows that in sc2 every semi pro can beat the best player in the game because this game is so volatile and mechanically easy. really undeserved win by cruncher Lol, so when cruncher beats IdrA it's just a fault in the game but when Thorzain, qxc and goody beat Fruitdealer, Genius and Nestea it's the fact that foreigners are just as good as Koreans? Wow, double standard much? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Cruncher plays a straight up macro game against Idra, and is SO bad at it, that Idra is ahead by 60 food in 10 minutes, and STILL WINS. Explain how that makes any sense at all. FYI, he lost that game. If IdrA can't prepare for timing pushes then that is his fault. He played greedily and wanted to maximize his drone output when he was not sure what his opponent was doing. He could have easily made 1 extra round of lings/ roaches and been fine (or at least in a better position that he was).
i do not know how u can prepare for Collosus, VR, and Stalker death ball.
|
On March 28 2011 04:52 ratMortar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:49 GreEny K wrote:
Having to use hallucinate as a means of scouting cuts into your sentry energy and means you have to have a sentry heavy army if you want to have constant scouting. That is not a problem if you wish to follow that tech path anyway, but what if you don't want to? Then you are forced to change the way you play. Aaaaaand now we can go back to talking about how fucked zerg is.
Yeah I guess we can, but that's not the point. People are trashing a good player and saying he is a scrub who just all-ins. Well guess what, he used strategies that work against Zerg, if you do not do that then I would call you dense. What did you want him to do? Play gateway expand into more expand while massing army? Yeah because if I play a better player I totally tend to make him more comfortable while playing into his play-style.
|
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On March 28 2011 04:54 chickensmasher wrote:
IdrA loses a game and the fanclub thread is full of stupid "WELL THIS IS WHAT IDRA SHOULD HAVE DONE" posts....
At least game 2 was great.
Idra should of made Brood Lords to beat the Voidrays isn't it obvious?
|
JinNJuice makes a good point about the credentials argument.
IdrA, I've always been a peripheral fan of yours. After today, you're one of my top 3 favorite players. Truly godly play today.
|
On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
Excuse me, did you happen to watch any of those games? idrA's macro was so superb that it made my skin tingle with excitement, but still he lost due to some shitty mechanics.
Please remove your head out of your anus and learn to play.
|
I actually think Idra's games against cruncher showed that idra is one of the best players out there. In games one and two his macro was INSANE. Did you see his spread on shakuras?
As a masters league zerg who tries to keep up my macro and spread overlords and creep like that, I was blown away. I have sat alone against easy computers and tried over and over to do something similar, and I can't. I'm surprised more people aren't making more of a big deal about how good it was.
|
On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
I don't get why people feel the need to come into a fanclub thread and start trolling people.
|
On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better.
Reaching max actually has a lot to do with skill. Macroing, scouting, harassing all at the same time makes it hard to reach maxed fast. In some of the Jinro vs IdrA games Jinro maxes out first even though he hasnt done much damage to IdrA, so don't come here with "zerg just maxes out faster". I am sad to see a player like cruncher beat IdrA. IdrA threw two and a half maxed armies at him in game 1 and didnt dent his army, its sad. In game 2 we saw how much better multitasking, macro and control IdrA has... so ofcourse cruncher all ins with op forcefields... I get so friggin annoyed that people say that spell isnt over powered... that you can bug out units is just idiotic... its a bug damnit. The spell in itself is a cool idea since it requires some micro, but since you can't counter it it doenst become a microwar, its just you deciding the outcome with the spell.
This game is sooo balanced... players like Goody (cool guy don't get me wrong), beats the best zerg in the world with his turnbased style of play (now I move this piece here, and place this here, checkmate), and people like cruncher that doesnt even micro or macro well beating the best foreigner zerg in the world.
I am done watching SC2 as an e-sport. Still fun to play, but I just get so damn annoyed by people thinking this game is close to balanced and talk about skill in other matchups than mirrors. And if I watch I just need to rant about balance and be one of those idiots that to exactly that (hate whining about balance but cant help it). The best match I have seen in SC2 this far has been the last GSTL finals... because it was damn high level and balanced (tvt).
Anyways. DAMN awesome play in game 2 IdrA, stuff like that is so cool to watch.
|
On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup.
How would you even know what a typical TL poster is? You've been here for less than a year... I don't care about credentials but considering you are the one that completely ignored his analysis and you are the one who brought up his knowledge being less than yours... Yeah think about it.
On March 28 2011 04:54 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:28 ratMortar wrote:
Game 1 could be argued as more of a PvZ balance issue
Game 3 was clearly a problem IdrA has discussed countless times: scouting.
By the time he figured out what Cruncher was doing he was dead. Did anyone notice that OL speed kicked in just as Cruncher had his pylon down and units wraping in? What good is speed when the all-in is already happening?
It's probably the point I agree with the most: make OL speed a hatch tech upgrade and make scan less energy for terrans. Make scouting easier to weaken all-ins. I'm tired of watching players (No, not just IdrA) who are just betterthan the people they're playing lose to these kind of shotty plays.
It's silly and it does nothing to vitalize e-sports. Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. it is also suggested that observers go cybernetics core tech or hallucination become way cheaper and faster to compliment those changes. Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:23 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:19 TUski wrote:On March 28 2011 04:17 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:11 Denzil wrote:On March 28 2011 04:08 WeedRa wrote:For not saying "gg" I think you deserve this loss Do you know what gg means? This drives me nuts. Good game means the game was good. Game 1 wasn't good it's the classic MAKE VRS MAKE COLUSSUS MAKE STALKERS PUUUUUSH. I'm sad Cruncher didn't say gg because I thought game 2 was a good game. Lol you obviously don't know what you're talking about... GG does mean good game, but people say it no matter what the outcome of a game is. You think that pros in BW think a proxy rush is a gg? No, but they say it anyway.Sack up, every other player GG's even if they lose, IdrA is just being a drama queen as usual. On March 28 2011 04:10 Xadar wrote:
just shows that in sc2 every semi pro can beat the best player in the game because this game is so volatile and mechanically easy. really undeserved win by cruncher Lol, so when cruncher beats IdrA it's just a fault in the game but when Thorzain, qxc and goody beat Fruitdealer, Genius and Nestea it's the fact that foreigners are just as good as Koreans? Wow, double standard much? Just to clarify, Pros in BW are REQUIRED to say gg to surrender the game, or they are disqualified. "Lol you obviously don't know what you're talking about..." Thorzain, qxc, and goody played well. I can't say the same for Cruncher. Lol where did you get that information from? That is completely wrong... lol. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86291Show nested quote +
- When surrendering in a match, only "gg' and "GG" will be legal/accepted
When not followed, this will result in an automatic disqualification and warning
Show nested quote +So everyone that won played well except Cruncher... That doesn't make any sense at all lol. IdrA is a good player and wouldn't lose to someone who doesn't play well, I really don't understand how you are making your judgements. If there is a strategy that is really strong in a particular MU then why not use it... That's like not making units to counter the composition of your opponent, doesn't make sense Well all of the other foreigners didn't all-in or use a strategy that many consider imbalanced. (from what I've seen) That why people are saying that the foreigners are good, but Cruncher is not. I'm not saying that Cruncher shouldn't have won, but I definitely lean more toward the IdrA supporter's side. Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:19 JinNJuice wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 28 2011 04:17 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:11 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:08 WeedRa wrote:For not saying "gg" I think you deserve this loss Do you know what gg means? This drives me nuts. Good game means the game was good. Game 1 wasn't good it's the classic MAKE VRS MAKE COLUSSUS MAKE STALKERS PUUUUUSH. I'm sad Cruncher didn't say gg because I thought game 2 was a good game. Lol you obviously don't know what you're talking about... GG does mean good game, but people say it no matter what the outcome of a game is. You think that pros in BW think a proxy rush is a gg? No, but they say it anyway.Sack up, every other player GG's even if they lose, IdrA is just being a drama queen as usual. On March 28 2011 04:10 Xadar wrote:
just shows that in sc2 every semi pro can beat the best player in the game because this game is so volatile and mechanically easy. really undeserved win by cruncher Lol, so when cruncher beats IdrA it's just a fault in the game but when Thorzain, qxc and goody beat Fruitdealer, Genius and Nestea it's the fact that foreigners are just as good as Koreans? Wow, double standard much? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Cruncher plays a straight up macro game against Idra, and is SO bad at it, that Idra is ahead by 60 food in 10 minutes, and STILL WINS. Explain how that makes any sense at all. FYI, he lost that game. If IdrA can't prepare for timing pushes then that is his fault. He played greedily and wanted to maximize his drone output when he was not sure what his opponent was doing. He could have easily made 1 extra round of lings/ roaches and been fine (or at least in a better position that he was). i do not know how u can prepare for Collosus, VR, and Stalker death ball.
Well, not sure if you know this... But that refers to saying anything else but "GG", if you want to leave without saying anything they would not penalize you.
Preparing for that huge death-ball is hard but I've seen it beaten by timing pushes that hit before he can even get those large numbers out.
|
|
|
On March 28 2011 04:55 FortuneSyn wrote:
hey guys, what do you think went wrong for Idra? Looked like cruncher pretty much outskilled him.
User was temp banned for this post.
1/10 troll
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9bVuS.png)
User was warned for this post
|
On March 28 2011 04:57 SiguR wrote:
I actually think Idra's games against cruncher showed that idra is one of the best players out there. In games one and two his macro was INSANE. Did you see his spread on shakuras?
I was blown away.
This!
Maybe he should incorporate some of this aggressive play of game 2 into his macro of game 1. It seems to me as if that would improve his PvZ. Whatever he does I am hopeful he will find something... :-)
|
On March 28 2011 04:53 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:46 GreEny K wrote:On March 28 2011 04:42 growl wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 GreEny K wrote:
Firstly, 6 gate off 2 base is not all in... Secondly, if you're gonna make scouting cheaper for zerg and terran you will need to make it easier for protoss as well. Waiting for a robotics and observer takes longer than waiting for 50 energy to scan. What game are you playing? A 6 gate push that fast off 2 base is definitely all in, especially when you cut probes and tech like Cruncher did. I didn't see Cruncher cut probes, he was chronoboosting them last time the observer showed his main base. And considering I do 6 gate all the time, I know how all in it really is. On March 28 2011 04:41 JinNJuice wrote:On March 28 2011 04:38 Tyree wrote:
I am not here to tell Idra or other Zergs what units to make, that wasent my intent.
I was trying to explain to people why more supply does not mean you played better, especially when you compare a macro Zerg who has the cheapest units in the game vs a Protoss who litterally made the most expensive units he almost could (bar Carriers).
Go in the game now, and play as both races, make the same units and see how fast each hits max, supply has no barring on skill or who played better. Yeah but you can't really comment on any of that when you have no knowledge of the matchup can you? The fact that a 6-base zerg can't get the econ to produce an army size to beat a 2/3-base protoss deathball is pretty sad. So when did we establish his skill and knowledge? If that were an issue here I would ask you what credentials you have to make all of these "all-knowing" posts and analysis. Typical TL poster. Needs credentials to be able to accept analysis that actually makes sense. What does my credentials have to do with the fact that I'm right? The fact that he thought that Hive tech would've helped Idra shows that he doesn't understand the matchup.
Day9 also questioned the lack of Hive, guess his credentials are null and void while yours are just "right" right?
Look i see what you are trying to do, you are upset your favorite player lost and you want to enter into a pissing contest on Idras own fanpage for whatever reason, i am not biting and it is not fair to other Idra fans to read through this.
I simply explained why Idras supply got maxed faster than his opponents, i did that 100% correctly, i stand by that because anyone who has played this game knows it is the truth and cannot be used as a measure of skill.
I wont bother replying to you because this is Idras Fanpage, start a pissing contest with someone else but i wont be a part of it
Reaching max actually has a lot to do with skill. Macroing, scouting, harassing all at the same time makes it hard to reach maxed fast. In some of the Jinro vs IdrA games Jinro maxes out first even though he hasnt done much damage to IdrA, so don't come here with "zerg just maxes out faster".
Notice the massive amounts of Marines Jinro makes vs Zerg in many matchups? They are cheap and are created fast.
Again, go make the same units Cruncher and Idra made, and Idras way will max out much faster, it is simple mathematics at hand, cheaper faster built units max out faster than slower, more expensive units that even require many upgrades (which are also costly) to make.
|
On March 28 2011 04:56 Gaius Baltar wrote:
JinNJuice makes a good point about the credentials argument.
IdrA, I've always been a peripheral fan of yours. After today, you're one of my top 3 favorite players. Truly godly play today.
The credentials argument was started by him, belittling another poster as having no knowledge of the game...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
