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On August 02 2014 21:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
I wasn't talking about the oxygen deprivation.
I was talking about the anime only segment at the end of punk hazard where luffy struggles against caesar before knocking him out. In the manga he just immediately destroys him in that scene.
I personally like it that a 300M belli bounty takes at least a little effort to go down. I think the anime portrays some of the fights a bit more and I like that. However, i see where you're coming from.
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Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on
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On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on
Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob
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Talking about specialization. This is how is see it:
Luffy uses brute force bare hand attacks and mainly dodges on the defensive.
Zoro specializes in breaking tough defenses with cutting techniques and mainly takes enemy attacks without any defense(some fights he blocks/parries).
Sanji uses speed and precision to power his attacks and almost only evades and parries on the defensive.
Franky uses blast and beam weapons along with rocket fists on the offense and relies on his metal body for defense.
Writing it like that, what Zoro does sounds just wrong. But he does tend to have the bloodiest fights and get the heaviest injuries.
If you are confused what I mean by dodge and what I mean by evade, I made a quick graphic:
+ Show Spoiler +
Maybe you are even more confused now, who knows.
Anyway, it certainly looks like Sanji didn't get as much from 2 years of training as the rest of the strawhats. Unless he found a way for his legs to be faster than light and travel back in time or he has some developed a secret skill on okama island he doesn't want to use because it looks embarrassing.
Franky however has fully body plating and beam lasers. How do you fight someone who has beam lasers? You don't, because you can't.
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On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob
but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki!
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On August 03 2014 04:00 shell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki!
You realize that the world doesn't sit still right? Lucci after time skip is probably much more capable than the Lucci before the time skip. I wouldn't mind seeing him again and having him become an ally.
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On August 03 2014 09:33 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 04:00 shell wrote:On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki! You realize that the world doesn't sit still right? Lucci after time skip is probably much more capable than the Lucci before the time skip. I wouldn't mind seeing him again and having him become an ally.
He is probably better but I doubt anyone in the One Piece universe grew more then Luffy or Zoro being trained by Rayleigh and Mihawk. Not to mention Lucci was already around the age where he should have been in his prime as opposed to Luffy who isn't even there yet now.
So no the world did not sit still, but no one else had people like The Dark King and Mihawk training them everyday for either a large amount of the time(Luffy) or the full time?(Zoro). Whether they are the strongest in the world right now is impossible to answer(Though very unlikely) they are at least the ones that have by far grown the most in the two years easily IMO.
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Imagine how strong Enel has gotten. Years of training on the moon.
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On August 03 2014 14:45 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 09:33 Hyperbola wrote:On August 03 2014 04:00 shell wrote:On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki! You realize that the world doesn't sit still right? Lucci after time skip is probably much more capable than the Lucci before the time skip. I wouldn't mind seeing him again and having him become an ally. He is probably better but I doubt anyone in the One Piece universe grew more then Luffy or Zoro being trained by Rayleigh and Mihawk. Not to mention Lucci was already around the age where he should have been in his prime as opposed to Luffy who isn't even there yet now. So no the world did not sit still, but no one else had people like The Dark King and Mihawk training them everyday for either a large amount of the time(Luffy) or the full time?(Zoro). Whether they are the strongest in the world right now is impossible to answer(Though very unlikely) they are at least the ones that have by far grown the most in the two years easily IMO.
Well you see, unlike some people, the supernovas spent the time skip wrecking havoc in the new world. Law and Kid in particular made a name for themselves and increased their skills. So while Luffy and Zoro were busy doing nothing on an island these guys grew in both power and influence.
And it's not just then. We see smoker, crocodile, aokiji and lucci (maybe) do the same thing. I'm not saying the SH wasted two years but I am saying that they could really have used their time in a better way.
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On August 04 2014 00:51 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 14:45 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 03 2014 09:33 Hyperbola wrote:On August 03 2014 04:00 shell wrote:On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki! You realize that the world doesn't sit still right? Lucci after time skip is probably much more capable than the Lucci before the time skip. I wouldn't mind seeing him again and having him become an ally. He is probably better but I doubt anyone in the One Piece universe grew more then Luffy or Zoro being trained by Rayleigh and Mihawk. Not to mention Lucci was already around the age where he should have been in his prime as opposed to Luffy who isn't even there yet now. So no the world did not sit still, but no one else had people like The Dark King and Mihawk training them everyday for either a large amount of the time(Luffy) or the full time?(Zoro). Whether they are the strongest in the world right now is impossible to answer(Though very unlikely) they are at least the ones that have by far grown the most in the two years easily IMO. Well you see, unlike some people, the supernovas spent the time skip wrecking havoc in the new world. Law and Kid in particular made a name for themselves and increased their skills. So while Luffy and Zoro were busy doing nothing on an island these guys grew in both power and influence. And it's not just then. We see smoker, crocodile, aokiji and lucci (maybe) do the same thing. I'm not saying the SH wasted two years but I am saying that they could really have used their time in a better way.
It was intensive training that was harder (that's what rayleigh said) than going to the new world directly.
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On August 04 2014 00:51 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 14:45 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 03 2014 09:33 Hyperbola wrote:On August 03 2014 04:00 shell wrote:On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki! You realize that the world doesn't sit still right? Lucci after time skip is probably much more capable than the Lucci before the time skip. I wouldn't mind seeing him again and having him become an ally. He is probably better but I doubt anyone in the One Piece universe grew more then Luffy or Zoro being trained by Rayleigh and Mihawk. Not to mention Lucci was already around the age where he should have been in his prime as opposed to Luffy who isn't even there yet now. So no the world did not sit still, but no one else had people like The Dark King and Mihawk training them everyday for either a large amount of the time(Luffy) or the full time?(Zoro). Whether they are the strongest in the world right now is impossible to answer(Though very unlikely) they are at least the ones that have by far grown the most in the two years easily IMO. Well you see, unlike some people, the supernovas spent the time skip wrecking havoc in the new world. Law and Kid in particular made a name for themselves and increased their skills. So while Luffy and Zoro were busy doing nothing on an island these guys grew in both power and influence. And it's not just then. We see smoker, crocodile, aokiji and lucci (maybe) do the same thing. I'm not saying the SH wasted two years but I am saying that they could really have used their time in a better way.
Influence wise of course the others grew more. but no way in hell did they get stronger then being trained directly and harshly by two of the strongest/most knowledgeable people in the world.
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One thing regarding Sanji vs Franky - we know Sanji has Haki now (though his abilities thus far are pretty vague - same with Zoro, really) but have been given no indication that Franky can use it that I can recall.
Haki isn't the be all end all of course, Luffy has beaten Logia users before without it and Franky is certainly smart enough to find an alternate way of dealing with an opponent (Caribou + barrel anyone?), but it's a point to consider when doing 'power rankings' to pass the time.
I just think we haven't gotten a serious fight out of Sanji yet. I don't really count the Vergo fight as a decent measuring stick since it was cut short due to retreating from the gas and neither side got particularly serious. Of course, the current arc seems to be set up to give a large number of characters a chance to go into serious mode at some point or another.
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On August 04 2014 00:51 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 14:45 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 03 2014 09:33 Hyperbola wrote:On August 03 2014 04:00 shell wrote:On August 03 2014 02:47 GettingIt wrote:On August 03 2014 02:35 shell wrote:
Yeah i think no one can and will beat Luffy in raw strenght and melee fighting. His natural enemys are the smarter kind, the ones that understand his style and knows that he is a uni-dimensional kinda guy!
That's why even if Chinjao > CC, luffy will always have a harder time with CC, simply because he doesn't like to think and always attacks head on Agreed. Lucci was the only one who nearly killed Luffy with nothing but brute strength, a testament to Rob but that was before the TS.. it's diferent now that we have Haki! You realize that the world doesn't sit still right? Lucci after time skip is probably much more capable than the Lucci before the time skip. I wouldn't mind seeing him again and having him become an ally. He is probably better but I doubt anyone in the One Piece universe grew more then Luffy or Zoro being trained by Rayleigh and Mihawk. Not to mention Lucci was already around the age where he should have been in his prime as opposed to Luffy who isn't even there yet now. So no the world did not sit still, but no one else had people like The Dark King and Mihawk training them everyday for either a large amount of the time(Luffy) or the full time?(Zoro). Whether they are the strongest in the world right now is impossible to answer(Though very unlikely) they are at least the ones that have by far grown the most in the two years easily IMO. Well you see, unlike some people, the supernovas spent the time skip wrecking havoc in the new world. Law and Kid in particular made a name for themselves and increased their skills. So while Luffy and Zoro were busy doing nothing on an island these guys grew in both power and influence. And it's not just then. We see smoker, crocodile, aokiji and lucci (maybe) do the same thing. I'm not saying the SH wasted two years but I am saying that they could really have used their time in a better way.
The thing is Luffy was a target, "brother" of ace, son of Dragon, escaped from Impel Down etc..
He practiced for 2 years not because he tought it was better but because he didn't tought he could survive and protect his nakama with the skills he had!
Plus he couldn't even get together with them since they were far away.. 2 or 3 Pacifistas and they would be all dead or captured.
What they gained in power and knowledge was what let them get together
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On August 04 2014 05:48 Vortok wrote:
One thing regarding Sanji vs Franky - we know Sanji has Haki now (though his abilities thus far are pretty vague - same with Zoro, really) but have been given no indication that Franky can use it that I can recall.
Haki isn't the be all end all of course, Luffy has beaten Logia users before without it and Franky is certainly smart enough to find an alternate way of dealing with an opponent (Caribou + barrel anyone?), but it's a point to consider when doing 'power rankings' to pass the time.
I just think we haven't gotten a serious fight out of Sanji yet. I don't really count the Vergo fight as a decent measuring stick since it was cut short due to retreating from the gas and neither side got particularly serious. Of course, the current arc seems to be set up to give a large number of characters a chance to go into serious mode at some point or another.
but he has a lazer, what is invulnerable when faced with a Lazer?
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Well Laser Class are the highest priority targets to take out. You have to abuse their charge time, and the fact that they will absolutely not engage in friendly fire ever. Heavy Metal Clouds and such can be good at dampering their effects, but still, Lasers are probably the biggest reason why Humanity is being pushed to the brink of extinction.
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I'm convinced that caesar clown will become a strawhat member. Caesar will help the strawhats in someway (maybe by help fighting against big mom) and when doflamingo gets defeated, he will have no place to go. Vegapunk (who is implied to be somewhat benevolent and nice) will actually be revealed to be a scientist that is much more evil than CC and defeating vegapunk together will solidify the nakamaship between CC and the strawhats much akin to Nami/robin when arlong was defeated and robin was saved.
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On August 04 2014 12:55 saltywet wrote:
I'm convinced that caesar clown will become a strawhat member. Caesar will help the strawhats in someway (maybe by help fighting against big mom) and when doflamingo gets defeated, he will have no place to go. Vegapunk (who is implied to be somewhat benevolent and nice) will actually be revealed to be a scientist that is much more evil than CC and defeating vegapunk together will solidify the nakamaship between CC and the strawhats much akin to Nami/robin when arlong was defeated and robin was saved.
I thinks there's about a zero percent chance of that happening. Caesar Clown is a manufacturer of weapons of mass destruction that has no qualms about carrying out lethal experiments on abducted children. Even if Vegapunk turns out to be much more evil than CC, which I really doubt, I don't think that this can be brushed under the rug. Nothing that Nami or Robin have done even approaches what Caesar Clown has done.
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Yeah, Caesar has been one of the more evil and malicious villains the Strawhats have encountered. He has a snowball's chance in hell of joining.
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The best Caesar can be is an ally of the Strawhats, and I'm not buying it either.
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On August 04 2014 05:48 Vortok wrote:
One thing regarding Sanji vs Franky - we know Sanji has Haki now (though his abilities thus far are pretty vague - same with Zoro, really) but have been given no indication that Franky can use it that I can recall.
Haki isn't the be all end all of course, Luffy has beaten Logia users before without it and Franky is certainly smart enough to find an alternate way of dealing with an opponent (Caribou + barrel anyone?), but it's a point to consider when doing 'power rankings' to pass the time.
I just think we haven't gotten a serious fight out of Sanji yet. I don't really count the Vergo fight as a decent measuring stick since it was cut short due to retreating from the gas and neither side got particularly serious. Of course, the current arc seems to be set up to give a large number of characters a chance to go into serious mode at some point or another.
Im pretty sure vergo won that fight, because it's clearly implied in both the manga and anime that he at least cracked sanji's bone. They never get back to that and sanji doesnt show any sign of it when fighting dofla so i dont know why oda put that in to begin with, though.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uxwK7VB.png)
