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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
The author didn't state this in the story, Luffy did. Do you see the difference? the author is omnipotent, Luffy the character is not. Oh and someone else mention Enel is pretty cocky and wants to toy with his victims, in that case he would got own not because he's weaker, but because of his arrogance. | ||
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Squalish
United States137 Posts
On December 12 2011 14:10 rei wrote: no i didn't missed that, i read that page someone linked earlier, Luffy did said a lot of strong guys Enel have to defeat when Enel was bragging he's invincible. What luffy meant was that before Enel can run his mouth he has to defeat all those strong guys first. The author didn't state this in the story, Luffy did. Do you see the difference? the author is omnipotent, Luffy the character is not. Oh and someone else mention Enel is pretty cocky and wants to toy with his victims, in that case he would got own not because he's weaker, but because of his arrogance. I agree, I think Enel would actually beat everyone in the story if he wasn't cocky and arrogant. Actually even with his cockiness and arrogance. | ||
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nootropics
20 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 12 2011 13:37 rei wrote: Squalish you have no proof, who are the people that are much faster than HIM? who are the "they" that are catching him? Sentenal i already mention Kizaru, and also Kuma can teleport. Who else is faster? The PX-Models and Kizaru's lazer has a charge up time, it's not an instant attack / movement. Rayleigh was able to stop Kazaru from that light speed travel by interrupting the molecular disassemble process, he didn't stop him mid flight. And Squalish, "jesus just give up enel already fanboys and we can talk about something useful and logical about the series" 1. Jesus doesn't exist. 2. give up trying to make me give up 3. don't insult a forum vet, it won't end well for you. My point is that there exist people who should be faster than Enel, and yet people have still be shown to be able to keep up with them. There is no reason why Enel's speed of lightning should give him an insurmountable advantage against someone like an Admiral or Releigh. | ||
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MuK_x
743 Posts
On November 29 2010 09:29 Kurr wrote: My biggest hopes for the future : -Enel comes back with his moon crew. I really hate how he was beaten by Luffy despite being 100 times stronger than him at the very least. i just find Kurr's old post on page 81... Kurr i lub you,this is such an amazing post. *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On December 12 2011 10:36 rei wrote: proxY_ you said "Enel wouldn't last five minutes against a high tier haki user like Rayleigh" Tell me how do Rayleigh get anywhere close to Enel to use his haki on him, when Enel knows what's Rayleigh is thinking and location miles away? More like Rayleigh is ganna get snipe 10 miles away before he even come into visual contact with Enel. Only one who can get into Enel's range at will is Kizaru with his speed of light which is faster than speed of lightning. -_- Rayleigh is a beast: Can obvious stop the guy who uses light as a weapon: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v52/c511/18.html Breaks up beam: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v52/c512/6.html Combats his "light" sword with a haki imbued sword: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v52/c512/7.html CoO is good enough that he knows Luffy is on the Archipelago: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v61/c600/17.html The point is... a lot of the high level guys are shown to be able to have excellent CoO and be able to fight these logias with Haki fairly easily. No doubt Enel has one of the the more broken fruits. But to say a known strong Haki user can't sense the attack coming, and counter it with Haki is pretty dumbfounding to me. If a imbued Haki sandal and sword can stop a body made of "light" and a weapon made of "light" I'm pretty sure they can also stop a "lightning bolt" attack coming at him too. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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proxY_
United States1561 Posts
On December 12 2011 14:10 rei wrote: no i didn't missed that, i read that page someone linked earlier, Luffy did said a lot of strong guys Enel have to defeat when Enel was bragging he's invincible. What luffy meant was that before Enel can run his mouth he has to defeat all those strong guys first. The author didn't state this in the story, Luffy did. Do you see the difference? the author is omnipotent, Luffy the character is not. Oh and someone else mention Enel is pretty cocky and wants to toy with his victims, in that case he would got own not because he's weaker, but because of his arrogance. Luffy stating it is the author's way of stating it....... it makes no sense for the author to state it in some sort of narrative bubble so he gives Luffy the line. The line is in there to reassure the audience that there are many stronger guys ahead and Luffy isn't beating one of the strongest characters in the series via deus ex machina immunity to all his attacks. What sense does it make for Luffy to say the line if it's not true? Are you going to argue that Luffy is trying to antagonize Enel? He doesn't think that way. Luffy had already encountered plenty of strong guys in the story (Garp, Mihawk, Ace, Shanks) so it's not like there's no basis for what hes saying. This is a very basic literary concept and I don't understand why this is hard for you to understand. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On December 13 2011 07:07 rei wrote: My point is a strong haki user can't do anything about Enel even when they know Enel is ganna nuke the shit out of them, because they can't get close to him. Sure they can dodge him a few times, and keep chasing his ass all over the place, but Enel is MC hammer, and the song sings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&ob=av3e The pointe of haki vs logias and some paramecia (as luffy) is that their defense doesnt work as they would if they didn't use haki (see when DIamond Jozu manages to attack Aikoji and Crocodile). Given ice and sand is more solid than lightning the principe is the same basically | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On December 13 2011 07:20 Sentenal wrote: Enel is one of the strongest, but he isn't the strongest. Whitebeard is easily stronger, the admirals are probably stronger, and the Yonkou are probably (I guess we will see) stronger. Like I've said before, there are people who seem to be faster than Enel. And even Enel wasn't fast enough to avoid Luffy's attacks, otherwise he wouldn't have lost lol. and that's with Luffy without Gear2. As long as some of those strong ppl gets close to Enel he will be in deep shit, but i'm just saying Enel doesn't have to play fair, with his ability if i were him, i'm ganna be kiting at max range, and never let anybody get close to me, and only a couple ppl that are strong can sneak up on him without him knowing. His ability is broken if Oda decide Enel would use his abilities like I describe. But ya I agree there are ton of ppl that would waste Enel if they get in visual contact with Enel. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
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MuK_x
743 Posts
On December 13 2011 09:34 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Usopp + Haki > Enel. As the sharp shooter on the Strawhat crew he will become ridiculous with his sniping. Stop arguing about him, he's history. against Mantra+Lightning speed... lol... seriously LOL. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On December 13 2011 09:37 MuK_x wrote: against Mantra+Lightning speed... lol... seriously LOL. Don't laugh, this is manga. We've seen sword cut light, sword cut steel, hormones counteract poison, lava burn fire, and air bubbles staying intact at the bottom of the sea. Laws of physics means little, what matters is power level. Usopp might be a piss poor fighter but he's a godly sniper with high creativity. If Enel may be able to move at the speed of lightning but he obviously does not respond at the speed of lightning or else Luffy wouldn't be able to hit him no matter how he tries to counteract mantra. All that's left is to have Usopp find a way to Gatling Enel from outside his mantra range with rubber bullets. Is that so hard to imagine? | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On December 13 2011 09:53 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Don't laugh, this is manga. We've seen sword cut light, sword cut steel, hormones counteract poison, lava burn fire, and air bubbles staying intact at the bottom of the sea. Laws of physics means little, what matters is power level. Usopp might be a piss poor fighter but he's a godly sniper with high creativity. If Enel may be able to move at the speed of lightning but he obviously does not respond at the speed of lightning or else Luffy wouldn't be able to hit him no matter how he tries to counteract mantra. All that's left is to have Usopp find a way to Gatling Enel from outside his mantra range with rubber bullets. Is that so hard to imagine? Not even, Usopp is a man with a bag of tricks, and though mantra let's you foresee moves made by a person by sort of doing some mind reading thingey, it can't predict the potentially chaotic movement of some of Usopp's new bag of tricks. In my eyes, mantra / haki dodging doesn't really do greatly against Usopp's evolved style. Of course Usopp hasn't got the basic means to fight Enel (i.e. immunity to lightning), but there's a host of weapons we haven't seen from Usopp. For all we know he has plants with poison or sleeping gas (not unlikely) or plants which can shield him (also really not unlikely). Basically, Enel, despite being probably the most diverse display of a logia thus far, will need to have improved vastly to join the haki-fueled variety of abilities and skills on the blue seas. And yes, admirals are stronger than Enel. Is this debatable? Mind you...people debate that Crocodile is on par with Mihawk, Akainu and Luffy all in the same breath so... =/ | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
just cause you ate the fruit you arent able to control it to the fullest. without gear 2, without any haki. Rayleigh knows where attacks come from just like enel knows. And no1 can tell who acutally is faster. imo, the admirals or rayleigh would stomp enel in a few minutes - at least in the state we saw enel in the manga so far. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 13 2011 10:10 bittman wrote: Not even, Usopp is a man with a bag of tricks, and though mantra let's you foresee moves made by a person by sort of doing some mind reading thingey, it can't predict the potentially chaotic movement of some of Usopp's new bag of tricks. In my eyes, mantra / haki dodging doesn't really do greatly against Usopp's evolved style. Of course Usopp hasn't got the basic means to fight Enel (i.e. immunity to lightning), but there's a host of weapons we haven't seen from Usopp. For all we know he has plants with poison or sleeping gas (not unlikely) or plants which can shield him (also really not unlikely). Basically, Enel, despite being probably the most diverse display of a logia thus far, will need to have improved vastly to join the haki-fueled variety of abilities and skills on the blue seas. And yes, admirals are stronger than Enel. Is this debatable? Mind you...people debate that Crocodile is on par with Mihawk, Akainu and Luffy all in the same breath so... =/ I thought the War at Marineford made it pretty clear Crocodile was on par with Mihawk and the other Shichibukai. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
Now, to Enel conversation: what's to stop any logia from just turning into their element? Enel doesn't really have any way of hitting them since he does not possess the other haki. It's true what people say in the thread, Enel is definitely strong. There are just stronger people out there. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On December 13 2011 11:57 Dark_Chill wrote: That's one of the problems with logia, once they meet their weakness they are made to look weak. Crocodile is incredibly strong, but when faced against water, he becomes an average fighter. Oda says that logia are the strongest fruits, but paramecia seems to have more potential to it, same with zoan. Now, to Enel conversation: what's to stop any logia from just turning into their element? Enel doesn't really have any way of hitting them since he does not possess the other haki. It's true what people say in the thread, Enel is definitely strong. There are just stronger people out there. To be fair most of the logia users thus far have not been using their fruits to their potential. For example, Enel and Crocodile needs never to be anywhere near anyone to do harm to them. Enel can just strike with lightning and Crocodile can create giant sand storms. On top of this, Crocodile is able to absorb using his hand, well why doesn't he spend time working on learning to block with that hand? Or better yet, turn into sand, bury the target in sand, form your hand in the inner layer of hand, and suck him dry under a giant crushing dune. Imba enough? Enel melted the giant gold ball to trap Luffy's arm. Well if he trapped Luffy's head, he'd be DEAD. The logia users have absolutely no reason to ever lose against someone that does not have haki or another logia. If they did lose, it's solely because they're being stupid. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On December 13 2011 11:42 Sentenal wrote: I thought the War at Marineford made it pretty clear Crocodile was on par with Mihawk and the other Shichibukai. I thought if anything the War at Marineford showed how little Mihawk and Doflamingo care for that sort of battle since despite tonnes of strong people continually taking them on, neither came out with a scratch or a big name take down. Not saying Crocodile isn't strong, and that powers don't vary. But when people say Crocodile could easily manhandle Mihawk using the same "evidence" that could be used on Luffy and Akainu it becomes apparent that either Crocodile is both the strongest and weakest person in One Piece, or deflecting a sword strike not aimed at you once isn't actually evidence. And Shichibukai isn't a "power level" in One Piece. Unless you think that Moria and Doflamingo are even remotely on the same level...though I do rate Doflamingo quite highly... | ||
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