On June 04 2014 18:32 sc4k wrote: This is what my mate (v experienced blunt weapons duellist, professional re-enactor) has written about fighting the mountain with a spear:
The mountain weighs 30 stone of muscle. Which means if he connects... you die. Simple as. But the Red Viper is armed with a long spear, which he famously knows how to use exceptionally well.
Real outcome: Mountain dies in first seven seconds of engagement.
Spear thrusts to feet, hamstring, fist, then moving past him to finish the job with the spear in the back of the neck
they never show thrusts to feet and hands in film as it dosn't look cool. But seriously... spear guy duels sword guy... spear guy stabs hands and feet. Pinprick raids that stop the enemy from fighting too hard.
Also, The Mountain is wearing some kind of wierd maille and leather plates affair. This, in a time where steel plate exists is like hanging a sign around your neck saying 'kill me now'.
Bigman has a massive sword, that's really cool, butsits balance is mega off whack. Yeah you might be the strongest motherfucker out there, but balance works in weird ways. Bend the spear around his guard and just take him apart piece by piece.
I love asking him about this sort of stuff. I have seen him destroy people with a spear (it's his weapon of choice). It's hilarious how easily he can hit people's necks from a long range.
Oh my god, I've just watched the last episode, and I was so happy Oberyn stabbed mountain few times so he was on the floor, and than suddenly...All my favorist are dying one by one, shit am anrgy! I know that Oberyn was seeking for an answer, but that was so horrible decision...
So, is it out of the realms of possibility for littlefinger to hire the hound? The hound fled the capital because "fuck the king" - basically the same mindset as littlefinger (albeit simplified)
Littlefinger+Sansa+Hound+Arya @ The Eyrie new emergent power? I could imagine all sorts of interesting things happening through that.
Dammit, I hate and love this show so much. Dat last scene definetely took #1 as the best fighting scene through 5 seasons and probably #2 in the most shocking death chart, behind #1 as a red wedding and #3 as ned start execution.
Someone mentioned about totally black/white charecters and forgot to include The Onion Knight to the white list, but since all my favorits are dying constantly after I'm choosing the new one, I won't cheer for him
On June 04 2014 19:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Dammit, I hate and love this show so much. Dat last scene definetely took #1 as the best fighting scene through 5 seasons and probably #2 in the most shocking death chapter, behind #1 as a red wedding and #3 as ned start execution.
Someone mentioned about totally black/white charecters and forgot to include The Onion Knight to the white list, but since all my favorits are dying constantly after I'm choosing the new one, I won't cheer for him
The onion knight is awesome, he's so flexible and positive, I believe he could survive anything.
On June 04 2014 19:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Dammit, I hate and love this show so much. Dat last scene definetely took #1 as the best fighting scene through 5 seasons and probably #2 in the most shocking death chapter, behind #1 as a red wedding and #3 as ned start execution.
Someone mentioned about totally black/white charecters and forgot to include The Onion Knight to the white list, but since all my favorits are dying constantly after I'm choosing the new one, I won't cheer for him
The onion knight is awesome, he's so flexible and positive, I believe he could survive anything.
Are u sure about that, considering what kind of show we are following? :D
On June 04 2014 08:36 cosine wrote: Does anyone know the faux-medieval legality of Roose legitimizing Ramsay? Can you do that? If so, why didn't Ned legitimize Jon? Did it come up at all in season one?
Probably because of Catelyn. Happy wife = Happy life
On June 04 2014 13:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Oberyn is quite literally the classic movie villain. Talk your !@#$%^&* off until the other guy has a chance to escape or strike back. He should have killed Gregor right then and there.
My reaction to Oberyn's demise:
On June 04 2014 05:39 Snotling wrote: Huge dude without a shield? Just let any half skilled archer do the job and be don with it^^
What other people said, but also, no shield? Just fucking stick him and be done with it. The advantage of spears and halberds is their reach. Gregor is a poor swordsman regardless. He swings through with every single attack, a great way to leave yourself open.
Also, what the Mountain has in the strength of his strikes, he lacks in their speed. An armored fighter with a shield could parry his blows (he telegraphs them so much), and then thrust at him.
An average sized person would probably have his arm broken from the impact of the Mountain's massive sword hitting his shield. The dude is 420 pounds of muscle, he's basically a half-ogre.
Yeah, the Mountain is a rare super heavyweight. I imagine the Mountain is supposed to be a skilled fighter for something other than his size (we haven't seen that in the show, so idk). But regardless, here's a few things to consider. The dampening of kinetic energy that armor and shields have is significant. Given the slow speed of his blows though (this is important to take into account), I doubt it would crush someone shielded and armored arm, especially if they block properly, it would stagger them though. Also, it's hard to tell because the camera jumps around a lot but the Mountain looks like he swings his sword a lot more sluggishly and "club-like" than any other characters.
More importantly, the point of parrying is not to take a blow, but to actively deflect it, a classic medieval tactic of opening a clean window to strike your opponent. You're not just meeting the strike when it's low in force, but putting your own force to deflect it as well. If you've ever done any boxing/fighting, hits aren't even a fraction as hard when you aren't struck at the full extension of a punch. Could all of this be effective against the Mountain? If he's as slow and as unskilled as in the show, then probably. If the Mountain was a sharp and swift fighter, not at all.
But in any case, that's a moot point. The terrible slowness and poor swordsmanship of the Mountain in the show (he looks like an oaf that got handed a sword) against the reach of a spear and a fast and very skilled spearman practically makes Oberyn an easy winner. A "realistic" fight even if they both had their gear as shown in the show would have been a no-contest. With that said, however, in a "realistic" fight, the Mountain would probably be smart enough to use a large tower shield (think of the Roman scutum).
Well that is a 66 inch blade(according to the making of), the spear doesn't have a huge range advantage like it does against short/medium sized swords. Granted there is the leverage and speed advantage, but the mountain swings as fast as most people would swing it with both hands(in full armor too), and if you get caught with him having both hands on the blade, you're probably a dead man shield or not.
I would agree though that the mountain actor looked a bit unskilled with a sword, although I'm not sure how much of it was due to having to wield a greatsword in one hand because lore. I'd wager a fair number of people couldn't swing it as fast with 2 hands as he could with one, it's 5-8lbs(according to my google skills). In practice he would probably slaughter most swordsman before they could close simply because he can swing that thing with so much force he'd cleave people in half through a shield while retaining a massive range advantage, and he has the reach to even make people with spears think twice.
The blade is 66 inches? Jesus.. I was thinking more along the lines of actual medieval greatswords where the blade only topped at 40-50ish inches like Zweihanders and Claymores, which were apparently even usable against halberdier lines.
Just as an experiment, for everybody to try, grab a rod that's fairly light, hang 5lbs somewhere between 28 and 30inches(where the balance of the greatsword would probably be), and then try to lift it with one hand(I couldn't lift it, not enough wrist strength). That's pretty much the absolute minimum that thing would weigh(even as a realistic prop sword). Now imagine how strong somebody would have to be to swing that thing around with one hand.
Are they using real swords when they film the scenes?
haha pop there goes the bottle! his new nickname should be the champagne prince..
I also don't understand why anyone would still be foolish enough to root for anybody in this story. the shit you want to happen doesn't happen, just like in real life. for feel good stories there are disney movies.
On June 04 2014 19:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Dammit, I hate and love this show so much. Dat last scene definetely took #1 as the best fighting scene through 5 seasons and probably #2 in the most shocking death chart, behind #1 as a red wedding and #3 as ned start execution.
Someone mentioned about totally black/white charecters and forgot to include The Onion Knight to the white list, but since all my favorits are dying constantly after I'm choosing the new one, I won't cheer for him
I don't know how Onion Knight goes to White list when he was a smuggler most of his life. Or is this a list of current status of characters?
Also I didnt see many people talk about but I m extremely happy that Jorah left Danny. She s just a bitch tough, she was saved by him a couple of times and he was the best counsellor she could have wished for.
I hope he survives and finds a new cause, a noble one would be nice. As for Danny I think it is looking quite grim, he was her best advisor and with Barristan who only advises honorable things, Greyworm who might still have his cock (he doesn t remember when it was cut) and will do his love story with Missandei and Dario who seems stupid, I don t even expect her to take the other cities of slave s bay back.
Edit: And idk why peole expect the mountain to fight others, he will most likely die from his wounds, he got pierced two times in the chest and deeply, plus he got his ligaments cut on his right leg. At least he won t be able to walk but normally after being stabbed like that he should die.
On June 04 2014 19:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Dammit, I hate and love this show so much. Dat last scene definetely took #1 as the best fighting scene through 5 seasons and probably #2 in the most shocking death chart, behind #1 as a red wedding and #3 as ned start execution.
Someone mentioned about totally black/white charecters and forgot to include The Onion Knight to the white list, but since all my favorits are dying constantly after I'm choosing the new one, I won't cheer for him
I don't know how Onion Knight goes to White list when he was a smuggler most of his life. Or is this a list of current status of characters?
Ned Stark beheaded some guy from castle black in the very beggining of the show and still remains as a white person. The Onion knight has changed long time ago and paid few fingers for his crimes, and now he is acting only in a good ways.
He executed someone because laws said to do it, it was a man of the nights watch that left the wall that got killed. Ned didnt do anything wrong in that case.
On June 04 2014 22:38 B.I.G. wrote: haha pop there goes the bottle! his new nickname should be the champagne prince..
I also don't understand why anyone would still be foolish enough to root for anybody in this story. the shit you want to happen doesn't happen, just like in real life. for feel good stories there are disney movies.
Well, joffrey got a pathetic death, so that's not quite true. Multiple characters also made it through difficult situations (Jon and Arya comes to mind), so there's that as well. It's not all black in Westeros, more a dark grey-ish, so far. Joffrey's death really proved that no one, not even the bad guys, are safe. Edit : Also Vyserys got what he deserved.
On June 04 2014 23:47 Acertos wrote: Also I didnt see many people talk about but I m extremely happy that Jorah left Danny. She s just a bitch tough, she was saved by him a couple of times and he was the best counsellor she could have wished for.
I hope he survives and finds a new cause, a noble one would be nice. As for Danny I think it is looking quite grim, he was her best advisor and with Barristan who only advises honorable things, Greyworm who might still have his cock (he doesn t remember when it was cut) and will do his love story with Missandei and Dario who seems stupid, I don t even expect her to take the other cities of slave s bay back.
Edit: And idk why peole expect the mountain to fight others, he will most likely die from his wounds, he got pierced two times in the chest and deeply, plus he got his ligaments cut on his right leg. At least he won t be able to walk but normally after being stabbed like that he should die.
This would be good and bring some closure, although wouldn't be as satisfying as if he were burned to death by Sandor or something. I was assuming that he would recover and go back to rapin' and killin' because GRRM has some twisted love of evil people surviving but then again maybe he won't troll us too hard this time. EDIT: And well I suppose he killed that little shit Joffrey so he is not 100% evil <:
As for Tyrion; I have thought all along that GRRM basically puts him as the protagonist in the show (well, books but I haven't read the books) so I am assuming he will get out of this pickle but as for what he will do...surely he will have no money and therefore he is just a small person with absolutely nothing to defend himself with.
Can I just also add; in the bit where the Mountain killed Oberyn...the reactions from Tyrion + his random wife were a-m-a-z-i-n-g, perfect authenticity.
On June 04 2014 18:32 sc4k wrote: This is what my mate (v experienced blunt weapons duellist, professional re-enactor) has written about fighting the mountain with a spear:
The mountain weighs 30 stone of muscle. Which means if he connects... you die. Simple as. But the Red Viper is armed with a long spear, which he famously knows how to use exceptionally well.
Real outcome: Mountain dies in first seven seconds of engagement.
Spear thrusts to feet, hamstring, fist, then moving past him to finish the job with the spear in the back of the neck
they never show thrusts to feet and hands in film as it dosn't look cool. But seriously... spear guy duels sword guy... spear guy stabs hands and feet. Pinprick raids that stop the enemy from fighting too hard.
Also, The Mountain is wearing some kind of wierd maille and leather plates affair. This, in a time where steel plate exists is like hanging a sign around your neck saying 'kill me now'.
Bigman has a massive sword, that's really cool, butsits balance is mega off whack. Yeah you might be the strongest motherfucker out there, but balance works in weird ways. Bend the spear around his guard and just take him apart piece by piece.
I love asking him about this sort of stuff. I have seen him destroy people with a spear (it's his weapon of choice). It's hilarious how easily he can hit people's necks from a long range.
I presume "realistically" the mountain would use a shield and a helmet that doesn't fall off when it's hit and would be wearing full plate mail more like in the comic of the fight. If the comic is more representative of what the Mountain is supposed to look like, then he is so big that his sword is actually as long or longer than Oberyn's spear. Certainly the 3rd actor they found to play the Mountain wasn't that impressive fighting with the sword though, and doesn't live up to the reputation that the show tried to give him leading into the fight. Probably more a limitation of not having that many actors who could possibly fill the role convincingly and the show generally not having particularly impressive fight choreography.
EPT
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