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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
On May 10 2012 09:45 Drowsy wrote: + Show Spoiler + There's some hints that he planned the entire thing and Jeyne Westerling acted on his behalf to give him justification to betray Robb. In that case, I'd say he's pretty evil. If Jeyne and Robb was serendipity, then yeah I'd characterize him as "grey"but very dishonorable. That's why I say just maybe evil. I thought it was clear that Tywin planned the entire thing? | ||
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dmnum
Brazil6910 Posts
On May 10 2012 09:45 Drowsy wrote: + Show Spoiler + There's some hints that he planned the entire thing and Jeyne Westerling acted on his behalf to give him justification to betray Robb. In that case, I'd say he's pretty evil. If Jeyne and Robb was serendipity, then yeah I'd characterize him as "grey"but very dishonorable. That's why I say just maybe evil. jeyne did not know that robb was gonna get betrayed, it was his mother who was conspiring with tywin | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
On May 10 2012 09:53 dmnum wrote: jeyne did not know that robb was gonna get betrayed, it was his mother who was conspiring with tywin Yeap, and then the theory is that she actually wasn't betraying them and lied about giving the tansy to Jeyne. The theory says that Jeyne is pregnant and was smuggled out by the blackfish. Or something. I don't know. I like how all these theories exist and how a large amount of them are quite plausible. =] | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
On May 09 2012 10:26 iaguz wrote: How is he not? He tries to kill an 8 year old and almost succeeds, his incest children start a huge war and he broke his solemn oath to his king by killing him, he attacks Ned stark in the streets for pretty much no justifiable reason and when he made his offer to Edmure Tully regarding the whole Riverrun siege thing he has no qualms with killing a shitload of people if he has to. He's got shit for honour and everyone knows it. He's just lucky to be a Lannister so he can get away with all that shit. Jaime IS a horrible person, George just does a really good job making us forget that. This. There ARE some evil characters. I'm sick of people going on about how deep GoT is because 'all the characters are complex man, they all have good and bad qualities', as though no other show in history has ever done this before. Nope. Some people are just cunts. If you think Jaime is good then you're probably a sociopath or a bit disconnected from reality, or have taken the whole 'GoT is deep man' thing abit too far. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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Leth0
856 Posts
On May 10 2012 13:04 setzer wrote: You understand that characters change throughout the series right? The Jaime that released Tyrion and helped Brienne isn't the same Jaime that pushed Bran throughout the window. I'm really expecting some deeply conflicting emotions coming from Jaime when he confronts zombie Caitlyn. I just really want to see zombie cat somehow kill cersie. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On May 10 2012 09:47 Crazyeyes wrote: I thought it was clear that Tywin planned the entire thing? My thought was that Tywin+Walder Frey planned it, but Jeyne was nevertheless a pawn. I guess it's hard to really know though. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On May 10 2012 13:45 Leth0 wrote: I just really want to see zombie cat somehow kill cersie. Cercei's gonna get killed by Tyrion or Jaime (should be Tyrion because it s a younger brother, but maybe Jaime is 1 min younger than Cercei, and Valirian is like Hungarian in this respect and you canot say brother or sister without specifying if he's elder or younger), the Magi's prophecy is a real one since it's partially fulfilled already, so Margery (or Danny, Sansa, whoever) gonna cast her down, and her children will die before she does | ||
Braric
Canada184 Posts
On May 10 2012 15:36 Geo.Rion wrote: Cercei's gonna get killed by Tyrion or Jaime (should be Tyrion because it s a younger brother, but maybe Jaime is 1 min younger than Cercei, and Valirian is like Hungarian in this respect and you canot say brother or sister without specifying if he's elder or younger), the Magi's prophecy is a real one since it's partially fulfilled already, so Margery (or Danny, Sansa, whoever) gonna cast her down, and her children will die before she does Personally I think it's going to be Jaime that kills Cersei, if I recall it says that they were born together into this world with Jaime holding onto Cersei with one of his hands, I can't remember if it was his left or right hand but I'm pretty sure it's the same hand that gets cut off which is a huge foreshadow of their disconnection and future conflict. Also the fact that Cersei stresses and fears Tyrion so much makes me believe that it will end up being Jaime as it is not GRRM's style to give us what we expect, but then again maybe Cersei will outlive the series, George has shown that not all prophecies in the book come to fruition exactly down to the tee. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On May 10 2012 15:49 Braric wrote: Personally I think it's going to be Jaime that kills Cersei, if I recall it says that they were born together into this world with Jaime holding onto Cersei with one of his hands, I can't remember if it was his left or right hand but I'm pretty sure it's the same hand that gets cut off which is a huge foreshadow of their disconnection and future conflict. Also the fact that Cersei stresses and fears Tyrion so much makes me believe that it will end up being Jaime as it is not GRRM's style to give us what we expect, but then again maybe Cersei will outlive the series, George has shown that not all prophecies in the book come to fruition exactly down to the tee. yes, but this prophecy was done by an actual magi, using blood magic, and so far everything came true or did not happen yet. Im trying to think about failed prophecies but only the one about Danny's son comes to mind, and that was done by a few tribal crones now actual magic baring persons. It's pretty common ritual to "prophesize" that the son of the chief gonna be a BAMF in tribal customs | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
On May 10 2012 21:47 Geo.Rion wrote: yes, but this prophecy was done by an actual magi, using blood magic, and so far everything came true or did not happen yet. Im trying to think about failed prophecies but only the one about Danny's son comes to mind, and that was done by a few tribal crones now actual magic baring persons. It's pretty common ritual to "prophesize" that the son of the chief gonna be a BAMF in tribal customs Speaking of prophecies, holy fuck I think Cat got necro fucked after the red wedding.. See Dany Chapters in aCOK where she was in the House of the Undying In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipples with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing. | ||
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bRiz
United States113 Posts
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dogmatix
Australia339 Posts
On May 10 2012 22:07 Licmyobelisk wrote: Speaking of prophecies, holy fuck I think Cat got necro fucked after the red wedding.. See Dany Chapters in aCOK where she was in the House of the Undying pretty sure the women is Westeros and the four little men are Kings | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On May 10 2012 12:55 oldgregg wrote: This. There ARE some evil characters. I'm sick of people going on about how deep GoT is because 'all the characters are complex man, they all have good and bad qualities', as though no other show in history has ever done this before. Nope. Some people are just cunts. If you think Jaime is good then you're probably a sociopath or a bit disconnected from reality, or have taken the whole 'GoT is deep man' thing abit too far. Hey, I am an amateur writer, Pen n Paper RPG GM for 10 years, and Im currently studying psychology, all that said... I think you are wrong/halfwrong in several things. 1) GoT is deep, character complexity is just one of the many reasons why it is deep whoever, in my opinion what makes it deep is how it really is a much bigger story, and some plots start making sense hundreds of chapters later, how the several overlaps of interaction between the many characters build a feeling that the whole world is interconnected. 2) Dont imply that simply because people praise GoT, its like they are downplaying all else, theres many teenagers and kids in this forums that probably did never watch anything better. 3) Some people are just cunts? Well what about the whole context that led them to being cunts in the first place? The hound seems like a cunt, but he had a horrible childhood, his brother is a psychopath and it was expected of them to basically butcher people for their lord. He could have raped both Arya and Sansa, but didnt do so, he took the righteous path with them (even if his motives were to basically leverage himself thro them, he could have raped both) Jaime was born into the Lannister family, his father is a hard man and had many expectations of him, he felt suffocated by all that lannister bullshit and asked to join the kingsguard at 15 after winning that tournament, to the dread of his father. Jaime always wanted to fuck cersei, which put him in several situations where he was the bad guy, but I would venture to say the only reason he became that bigger than life playboy kingslayer is because the circumstances forced him so, the trait that shapes Jaime the most is his self image, its gargantuan, and to him honor is something very very important. He is neither good nor bad, he is a true neutral kind of guy who fights for himself and what he perceives that to be first, the only reason he had any stake in roberts death (at least as far as being glad he is dead goes) is because he was well ... fucking his lovely sister and lover. Otherwise he would be completely fine being the kingsguard for life and doing his thing, his biggest motivation is just to not be like his father. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
Your so called complexity stems from an escalation, which is the effect of George Martin's constant additions of weird actions of the characters. A sane person would act like this: * not conducting incest * not attempt manslaughter on a child * not starting a war against the Starks The same goes for Robert Baratheon. He goes hunting to make his head free. Outcome: he's drunk. Who the fuck would do that right before a possible World War as the most important person in the realm? To me that sounds very stereotypical. Like Baelish. Betrays everyone, goes for the biggest advantage - always. Where's the complexity there? That complexity is just an excuse to fuck the good guys, to destroy and take their homelands, to murder them etc. Anyway, psychologists only act as bystanders in the real world. | ||
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Overpowered
Czech Republic764 Posts
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KwarK
United States43523 Posts
On May 11 2012 00:53 Perscienter wrote: That's so wrong. Your so called complexity stems from an escalation, which is the effect of George Martin's constant additions of weird actions of the characters. A sane person would act like this: * not conducting incest * not attempt manslaughter on a child * not starting a war against the Starks There is nothing insane about incest. Brother sister marriage was practiced among the common people in Roman Egypt for centuries, we have census returns and family trees clearly showing it. What Bran saw would have led to the death of his three children. Jaime is a knight, a trained killer who has learned to take life when necessary. Again entirely sane. Pretty sure he didn't declare war on the Starks. Jaime isn't a schemer, he just does what he thinks he must in whatever situation he finds himself in. He's certainly not evil. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19190 Posts
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On May 11 2012 00:53 Perscienter wrote: That's so wrong. Your so called complexity stems from an escalation, which is the effect of George Martin's constant additions of weird actions of the characters. A sane person would act like this: * not conducting incest * not attempt manslaughter on a child * not starting a war against the Starks The same goes for Robert Baratheon. He goes hunting to make his head free. Outcome: he's drunk. Who the fuck would do that right before a possible World War as the most important person in the realm? To me that sounds very stereotypical. Like Baelish. Betrays everyone, goes for the biggest advantage - always. Where's the complexity there? That complexity is just an excuse to fuck the good guys, to destroy and take their homelands, to murder them etc. Anyway, psychologists only act as bystanders in the real world. Wow, you really don't understand how actual human being work do you? The thing I enjoy about GRRM's books is that he creates characters with actual character flaws, nobody acts perfectly the whole time, people make mistakes, either due to passion or other flaws in their character. | ||
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