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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 447

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
May 17 2013 14:15 GMT
#8921
On May 17 2013 22:56 TOCHMY wrote:
Since when does Pajkatt play 3rd position in LGD.int? Misery on 1st positon now, according to liquipedia

A few weeks or so.

On May 17 2013 23:02 NeoGeoOdin wrote:
Do you think its a good idea to start Captain Mode?

No, don't bother. CM pubs are kind of pointless. If you want to learn more about team composition and strategy, watch competitive games. But you should focus on building up your individual skill for now, no need to worry about picking and such.
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
May 17 2013 14:20 GMT
#8922
On May 17 2013 23:15 maru~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2013 22:56 TOCHMY wrote:
Since when does Pajkatt play 3rd position in LGD.int? Misery on 1st positon now, according to liquipedia

A few weeks or so.

Show nested quote +
On May 17 2013 23:02 NeoGeoOdin wrote:
Do you think its a good idea to start Captain Mode?

No, don't bother. CM pubs are kind of pointless. If you want to learn more about team composition and strategy, watch competitive games. But you should focus on building up your individual skill for now, no need to worry about picking and such.


Whos better/worse? Damn i gotta catch up on games from chinese scene....
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
May 17 2013 14:39 GMT
#8923
On May 17 2013 23:20 TOCHMY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2013 23:15 maru~ wrote:
On May 17 2013 22:56 TOCHMY wrote:
Since when does Pajkatt play 3rd position in LGD.int? Misery on 1st positon now, according to liquipedia

A few weeks or so.

On May 17 2013 23:02 NeoGeoOdin wrote:
Do you think its a good idea to start Captain Mode?

No, don't bother. CM pubs are kind of pointless. If you want to learn more about team composition and strategy, watch competitive games. But you should focus on building up your individual skill for now, no need to worry about picking and such.


Whos better/worse? Damn i gotta catch up on games from chinese scene....

You mean who's better on 1? Not sure, haven't seen them play with new roles (don't know if they even played official matches since then). But Misery has played the carry role quite a bit in the past. It's probably more about what's better for the team than who's better on 1 anyway.
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
May 17 2013 16:21 GMT
#8924
On May 17 2013 23:39 maru~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2013 23:20 TOCHMY wrote:
On May 17 2013 23:15 maru~ wrote:
On May 17 2013 22:56 TOCHMY wrote:
Since when does Pajkatt play 3rd position in LGD.int? Misery on 1st positon now, according to liquipedia

A few weeks or so.

On May 17 2013 23:02 NeoGeoOdin wrote:
Do you think its a good idea to start Captain Mode?

No, don't bother. CM pubs are kind of pointless. If you want to learn more about team composition and strategy, watch competitive games. But you should focus on building up your individual skill for now, no need to worry about picking and such.


Whos better/worse? Damn i gotta catch up on games from chinese scene....

You mean who's better on 1? Not sure, haven't seen them play with new roles (don't know if they even played official matches since then). But Misery has played the carry role quite a bit in the past. It's probably more about what's better for the team than who's better on 1 anyway.


It will be interesting to see I want some WR Pajkatt action! <3333
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
May 17 2013 23:53 GMT
#8925
Fat chance seeing that, wr has fallen out of favor completely unless she is run as a laning support, and even the only by egm with any real frequency
EchelonTee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5262 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-18 03:57:46
May 18 2013 03:52 GMT
#8926
On May 18 2013 08:53 KOFgokuon wrote:
Fat chance seeing that, wr has fallen out of favor completely unless she is run as a laning support, and even the only by egm with any real frequency

WR as the farmer in an aggresive tri has seen a few Chinese games recently, as far as I can remember. It's pretty effective if the WR is extremely skilled, it can dominate against passive trilanes such as AM+2.

On May 17 2013 23:02 NeoGeoOdin wrote:
But i do not know about counters or correct team comp (to me its a good initation set, good CC and AoE... and ofcourse a Carrie...)

Do you think its a good idea to start Captain Mode?

Counters and team comp are not too important at the beginning levels. However, what is important is lane composition. Meaning, if your team picks 4 mid heroes, or has 5 melee, you're not going to have a good time getting good lanes. It's best to look at your team and see who you can combo up with.

Just play AP until you're comfortable with everything and want to try more modes. AP is by far the most popular mode and has the deepest player pool, but the other modes are fun if you're looking for something different.
aka "neophyte". learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9]
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
May 18 2013 15:37 GMT
#8927
Captains mode, your captain can completely fuck up your game if he doesn't know what he's doing? It's a terrible idea unless of have a 5 stack. Random draft is a better step if you don't want to play ap
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
May 18 2013 16:11 GMT
#8928
On May 19 2013 00:37 KOFgokuon wrote:
Captains mode, your captain can completely fuck up your game if he doesn't know what he's doing? It's a terrible idea unless of have a 5 stack. Random draft is a better step if you don't want to play ap

Single draft is pretty good IMO. Most carry pickers won't just take the agi hero because it's not one of the 2-3 carries they actually play (in my experience at least).
:)
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
May 18 2013 16:34 GMT
#8929
On May 18 2013 12:52 EchelonTee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2013 08:53 KOFgokuon wrote:
Fat chance seeing that, wr has fallen out of favor completely unless she is run as a laning support, and even the only by egm with any real frequency

WR as the farmer in an aggresive tri has seen a few Chinese games recently, as far as I can remember. It's pretty effective if the WR is extremely skilled, it can dominate against passive trilanes such as AM+2.

Show nested quote +
On May 17 2013 23:02 NeoGeoOdin wrote:
But i do not know about counters or correct team comp (to me its a good initation set, good CC and AoE... and ofcourse a Carrie...)

Do you think its a good idea to start Captain Mode?

Counters and team comp are not too important at the beginning levels. However, what is important is lane composition. Meaning, if your team picks 4 mid heroes, or has 5 melee, you're not going to have a good time getting good lanes. It's best to look at your team and see who you can combo up with.

Just play AP until you're comfortable with everything and want to try more modes. AP is by far the most popular mode and has the deepest player pool, but the other modes are fun if you're looking for something different.

The most common farming WR trilanes involve a ridiculous offensive trilane usually with WR, KoTL + one ranged aoe stun (most often ES or SK) with the purpose of starving a 4-1 strategy (giving it the worst start possible) while farming some sort of midgame tempo 2 in mid where they have an advantageous matchup and giving freefarm to your carry at the safelane. The goal is to eat through the regen of the other team and force them to base / fountain as often as possible, but it requires really careful positioning, as it can be beaten if they get caught out. IG ran this a few times in GLeague iirc.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
B1nary
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada1267 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-18 18:08:34
May 18 2013 18:06 GMT
#8930
Why is it that Linkens Sphere is commonly seen on Morphling/Weaver/Medusa, but not on other carries like Antimage/PL/Luna? I'm having trouble seeing why Linkens synergizes well with some heroes but not others.

Edit: Or is it more dependent on the opposing team having a powerful single-target disable?
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
May 18 2013 18:25 GMT
#8931
On May 19 2013 03:06 B1nary wrote:
Why is it that Linkens Sphere is commonly seen on Morphling/Weaver/Medusa, but not on other carries like Antimage/PL/Luna? I'm having trouble seeing why Linkens synergizes well with some heroes but not others.

Edit: Or is it more dependent on the opposing team having a powerful single-target disable?


They have good escapes they can use after it blocks the initial stun. Weaver can shukuchi immediately, morph can waveform (though i can't really remember seeing linkens on morph O.o) and medusa well, i don't ever see medusa picked. Basically the only reason you'd pick it over a bkb is if you're only worried about the initial spell and you know you can escape if that's blocked. Of course it depends on the lineup, if it's like a sven sk sd then you're fucked and might as well go bkb. But if they're only relying on say a bat flaming lasso then you're gold with linkens. In before all the hate from general thread floods into this one on linkens.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-18 18:30:14
May 18 2013 18:26 GMT
#8932
On May 19 2013 03:06 B1nary wrote:
Why is it that Linkens Sphere is commonly seen on Morphling/Weaver/Medusa, but not on other carries like Antimage/PL/Luna? I'm having trouble seeing why Linkens synergizes well with some heroes but not others.

Edit: Or is it more dependent on the opposing team having a powerful single-target disable?

Linken's isn't good on Weaver.

The thing about Linken's is that you spend 2k+ gold buying the regen components. That is a LOT of gold invested in the regen. As such, you have to be making use of that regen for the item to be a cost-effective buy. Morphling and Medusa have that kind of mana demand. But think about it--could you really use up a Linken's worth of mana/mana regen on AM/PL/Luna even if you tried?

Other situational Linken's carriers fall into this category--Naga and PotM for example. Carries with very heavy mana demand if their spells are used for farming, which makes the investment into a Linken's worth of mana regen (10 int + 150% mana regen) worthwhile.

Note that this is UNLIKE Battle Fury on AM/Void, because if you compare the cost-effectiveness of Battle Fury against Linken's, Battle Fury is cost-effective for the damage components, EVEN if you are wasting the regen. You can afford to have the wasted regen on Battle Fury, but this is not the case with Linken's.
Moderator
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
May 18 2013 19:36 GMT
#8933
Linken's is good on medusa mostly because of the stats. At level 4 passive she basically converts 1 point of mana to 2.25 hp. So linken's gives her 15 * 13 * 2.25 + 15 * 19 (=723) hp, and 25 damage and 15 attack speed. Medusa carries by eventually being able to tank everything while hitting their entire team simultaneously. The regen doesn't hurt either, and makes for a very efficient lategame (which is the only part of the game medusa is relevant in) item slot. The single spell-block is incidental and mostly useless anyway, since anyone can easily waste it with a lesser spell.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
May 18 2013 19:44 GMT
#8934
On May 19 2013 04:36 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Linken's is good on medusa mostly because of the stats. At level 4 passive she basically converts 1 point of mana to 2.25 hp. So linken's gives her 15 * 13 * 2.25 + 15 * 19 (=723) hp, and 25 damage and 15 attack speed. Medusa carries by eventually being able to tank everything while hitting their entire team simultaneously. The regen doesn't hurt either, and makes for a very efficient lategame (which is the only part of the game medusa is relevant in) item slot. The single spell-block is incidental and mostly useless anyway, since anyone can easily waste it with a lesser spell.


Effective hitpoints from mana shield and raw health should never be added together one to one. The mechanics of mana shield mean that it is inferior to health, especially on an agility hero who is going to have a lot of armor.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
May 18 2013 20:00 GMT
#8935
You can correct the actual value by adding the effective hp armour gives for precise mathing/comparing purposes, but shy of that it doesn't really contradict my point, which is that linken's is good on her because it directly feeds into the mechanism she uses to carry. On other carries it's "just" 15 stats and regen-- no special synergy, so except on carries that can use the stats/regen for flash-farming purposes as yango mentioned, there's no reason to ever buy it before/instead other items.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-18 20:19:16
May 18 2013 20:12 GMT
#8936
Linken's is good on medusa mostly because of the stats.

No. The stat portion of Linkens is in no way better than buying a flat out ultimate orb instead. The only reason to go for the full Linkens is because you want the spell block.

Edit: I got spanked for the last statement, edited out. =(
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
May 18 2013 21:03 GMT
#8937
What? 2100 gold for 10 stats, 1750 gold for perseverance (double regen), 1300 for 5 stats and combining those item slots. 3400 gold for 15 stats is relatively efficient. Most heroes in the game can waste the spellblock easily. If linken's lacked the stats medusa would never get it.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-18 21:51:00
May 18 2013 21:50 GMT
#8938
Ultimate orb: 1050 for +5 stats.
Linkens: 1325 for +5, spellblock, +10dmg.

-> "The stat portion of Linkens is in no way better than buying a flat out ultimate orb instead."
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
sqrt
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1210 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 02:17:40
May 19 2013 01:41 GMT
#8939
Why don't we see more daedalus in pro-games? The raw bonus damage plus the critical strike chance and increase crit damage makes it the highest dps item (rapier excluded and the abyssal blade doesn't provide as much damage due to the crit) in the game.

Or at least Crystalys - it's a relatively low-cost item that give you a good crit. chance?
@
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 19 2013 02:31 GMT
#8940
Because it's very atypical for carries to be in a position to buy a pure damage item until very lategame. Generally they require a mix of defensive and offensive stats or items with certain utility aspects to them. By the time a carry can afford to comfortably get a pure damage item, MKB is often better because evasion is in play.
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