EPTI don't know why. She easily gankable i guess, but so is storm. She's maybe too slow compared to bat/ta/storm who have all high mobility
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
I don't know why. She easily gankable i guess, but so is storm. She's maybe too slow compared to bat/ta/storm who have all high mobility | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 09 2013 00:31 d_so wrote: o and hey bkb doesnt shut her down, exorcism > bkb! Ghost Scepter on the other hand... | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 09 2013 01:50 maru~ wrote: Too reliant on ult, makes her a risky pick. You could say this about a ton of picks, it doesn't stop Magnus from being picked. There are a couple of reasons DP isn't picked - DP Isn't a bad hero in my opinion, and she is easily one of the best pushers in the game. Her ult is extremely powerful, and can output a ton of damage in teamfights even. I'm going to make it fairly short, and just say that in the current style of the game being played, you need a bit more out of your mid hero. You either need huge burst damage potential for quick gank styles to help break trilanes and punish enemy carries in ganks, or they need some kind of hard stun or disable (as much for breaking trilanes, as well for being a "breaking" factor in trying to siege in towers - heroes like Puck, Magnus, Beastmaster [who is picked as well for his strong pushing ability and map presence], Brewmaster, etc etc). DP doesn't really offer either of these - shes great for knocking down towers and all-in push strats, and it can be really, really hard to stop. I think it could work in certain lineups, but teams like heroes that aren't completely all-in. Oh, also she's really easy to gank. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
But right now, the silly 'get naix or pl farmed' meta is not suitable for an easily ganked semi-carry that has no way to lock people down. Once it shifts back to a pushing meta, she'll be back in style. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On May 09 2013 02:25 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: currently 100% with DP. Movespeed based builds are very snowbally and great in pubs. The silence is also a game-wrecking disable, since she can stand toe-to-toe with most carries once she has euls up, as the other supports wont be able to disable her. She requires levels, but with a good lane-clearing nuke, she has nice rune control. But right now, the silly 'get naix or pl farmed' meta is not suitable for an easily ganked semi-carry that has no way to lock people down. Once it shifts back to a pushing meta, she'll be back in style. There's a lot of heroes that offer pushing power but have more versatility tho. | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
On May 09 2013 02:11 Comeh wrote: You could say this about a ton of picks, it doesn't stop Magnus from being picked. Hitting decent ults with Mag is not hard, especially once you get a Blink. To use Exorcism effectively (and by extension DP as a hero), you have to be able stay alive for a long time in fights and you have to be able to force the enemy to fight or to give away free towers. This means that you will have a hard time unless you are stronger than your opponent. Even if you are stronger and can take free towers there will be timewindows when you're very vulnerable because ult is just about to end or is on cd, and your enemy can abuse that. Besides Magnus without ult can still do quite a lot, and he isn't a risky pick anyway - well, in fact he's just way too strong but that's another story. Oh and I don't think you can say that about a ton of picks, which would you consider to be that way? On May 09 2013 02:11 Comeh wrote: shes great for knocking down towers and all-in push strats, and it can be really, really hard to stop. I think it could work in certain lineups, but teams like heroes that aren't completely all-in. Yeah, that's what I meant. She can definitely work, but going for all-in push strats is risky. Also, she should probably go on safe lane instead of mid (either solo if it's safe and she can get farm vs the enemy offlaner or protected by supports). She should most likely be the 1 in such a lineup. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
DP's a DPS-based carry imo. I'd play her like a silencer: someone who needs a lot of babysitting, lots of heals/support and who destroys everything in the end. | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
On May 09 2013 03:33 d_so wrote: i don't get why everyone considers DP a push hero. DP's a DPS-based carry imo. I'd play her like a silencer: someone who needs a lot of babysitting, lots of heals/support and who destroys everything in the end. Because she doesn't destroy everything in the end. She peaks in midgame. And she's good at pushing. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On May 09 2013 03:39 maru~ wrote: Because she doesn't destroy everything in the end. She peaks in midgame. i ono. what's your definition of midgame? i think she can still outcarry most "hard" carries out till the 50 minute mark. I'd take a fully stacked DP in a 1v1 over any carry at that point. of course dota isnt about 1v1 but still. maybe in a 75 min game her effectiveness will wane but 50 min is good for me. edit: well yeah, she definitely can push. I guess what i mean is i don't get why people think of DP as *strictly* a push hero. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I mean, the difference between 50 minutes and 75 minutes is exactly nothing to a properly farming carry. The deal is, DP doesn't increase in damage meaningfully after level 16. That is her "peak" and if your level 16 is at 50 minutes... Yeah. Not that she tails off THAT fast after 16 but she stops improving whereas legitimate carries are growing until 6 slots (which is always after level 16 lol). | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On May 09 2013 03:48 Sn0_Man wrote: DP should be getting wrecked by carries starting at ~35 mins depending on how much farm trading went on. I mean, the difference between 50 minutes and 75 minutes is exactly nothing to a properly farming carry. The deal is, DP doesn't increase in damage meaningfully after level 16. That is her "peak" and if your level 16 is at 50 minutes... Yeah. Not that she tails off THAT fast after 16 but she stops improving whereas legitimate carries are growing until 6 slots (which is always after level 16 lol). hm i guess im wrong or ive played against noobs too much. /m hey Trozz come spit a haiku here and help me (Trozz has a godly DP, even back in 6.19b) anyways, i think it depends how you build DP. I don't really espouse the whole "mobility" based DP that's kinda been a trend lately: I stick to the old school tank build, which in the past meant vanguard heart heart heart heart. But these days you have so many cool tanking items/options that you can really diversify. For example, what can a carry do against a DP with: bloodstone heart shiva skadi mjolinir or you can substitute AC for shiva. yeah i know my item build looks noob or whatever... plz dont laugh haha edit: i mean here'es the thing: i was playing DP as carry back when her ult had a damage cap and she didn't get ms% bonus off her passive. She's only gotten stronger since then... so i ono. maybe im confused  | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
At lower levels I guess carries don't finish farming until 75 minutes or something?  | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
edit* You can say the same about a carry with 6 items, what can a DP do against that? | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On May 09 2013 03:58 solidbebe wrote: Just stomp her face? edit* You can say the same about a carry with 6 items, what can a DP do against that? yah but her ult can do like a 1000 damage if u use it rightttttt ok im gonna concede this one to you new school playas haha. edit: ok last point! On May 09 2013 03:51 maru~ wrote: Her ult doesn't scale past level 16. She doesn't have scaling late game skills either. Not sure why you'd think that she would not get obliterated by "hard" carries in lategame. but see, her ult DOES scale the later the game goes. Because the main thing restricting the ulti's damage is DP's survivability. It's not like a burst damage thing where ur guaranteed to get 100% damage as soon as you hit 16. When you're first 16, you'll probably be able to mete out about 30~40% of its damage, but as her survivability scales her ulti hits closer to 100%~~~ ok no more | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
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maru~
2345 Posts
On May 09 2013 04:02 d_so wrote: but see, her ult DOES scale the later the game goes. Because the main thing restricting the ulti's damage is DP's survivability. It's not like a burst damage thing where ur guaranteed to get 100% damage as soon as you hit 16. When you're first 16, you'll probably be able to mete out about 30~40% of its damage, but as her survivability scales her ulti hits closer to 100%~~~ Well, yes, except that the enemy carry's dps will scale as well so you are by no means guaranteed to survive longer just because you get tankier. Heck, chances are that around the time you hit 16 you will have some decent survivability items already while the enemy carry might still lack the items and dps to fight you, especially if you did well and managed to push down towers and gain a gold advantage from tower gold and map control. Which again goes to show that she should be played as a pushing midgame carry. On May 09 2013 03:56 d_so wrote: edit: i mean here'es the thing: i was playing DP as carry back when her ult had a damage cap and she didn't get ms% bonus off her passive. She's only gotten stronger since then... so i ono. maybe im confused Other heroes also got stronger. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
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