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On May 06 2015 23:34 Sceptre wrote:
Have people altered their starting builds on AM?
I've been experimenting by starting with the full Poor Man Shield + Tango if I think I'll be in a lane where I can get away with it; otherwise opting for the standard Salve+Tango+Stout+x2 Branches.
getting 2 tangos is better in a lot of cases now since you shouldn't ever eat a huge burst on AM in a bad trade thanks to blink, and 2 tangos provides more regen for 10 more gold. That and you get an itemslot for magic stick if it's something like a bat.
PMS start has always been viable against enemy ranged heroes.
trading your stout for a quelling blade is more viable than ever now in an absolutely free lane.
antimage is probably one of the more boring heroes in terms of item choices, but the timing requirement on his items is very strict, so having the right start really helps.
If you're trying to get better at antimage, remember that there's also other options in heroes with similar styles - morphling, spectre and ember are all tp-centric mobility based heroes (yet their kit can be so much more creative than antimage's simple blink), and even naga shares some aspects with all these heroes.
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Is stout still better than RoP with the changes? In general, not just with AM. I think I'll try to start with pms tomorrow.
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United States47024 Posts
Stout's still vastly better against creep damage (which is always what justified it in the first place). Against hero damage it's a lot closer and depends on the heroes involved and their respective damage/armor values.On a 0 base armor hero, RoP and Stout prevent the same average amount of damage against a 50 damage autoattack--relative to this, Stout is better at higher base armor and against lower damage values while the RoP is better at lower base armor and against higher damage values.
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Was AM buffed by this meta? I don't play him much. As I am a support player, I lane with an AM quite a bit. Who is the ideal lane partner? I have found success with Dazzle and WD, and limited success with Ogre.
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On May 07 2015 14:36 Saki [NETOGE] wrote:
Was AM buffed by this meta? I don't play him much. As I am a support player, I lane with an AM quite a bit. Who is the ideal lane partner? I have found success with Dazzle and WD, and limited success with Ogre.
if the deathballs are truly back...no
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On May 07 2015 14:36 Saki [NETOGE] wrote:
Was AM buffed by this meta? I don't play him much. As I am a support player, I lane with an AM quite a bit. Who is the ideal lane partner? I have found success with Dazzle and WD, and limited success with Ogre.
Bane, Skywrath and Rubick are good defensive supports for AM.
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I don't see a way for Rubick to become a good defensive support in any case. He can do something in early game with heroes like Lina but otherwise he offers less than more support in lane.
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On May 08 2015 00:01 Laserist wrote:
I don't see a way for Rubick to become a good defensive support in any case. He can do something in early game with heroes like Lina but otherwise he offers less than more support in lane.
He works wonders in a trilane. If you're dual laning however I'd prefer Sky/Bane ofc.
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No mention of Lion with Mana Drain into ez Mana Void? 
Spell is kinda shit btw with the cast animation which is the problem that only people who play AM will understand. It should get some cast point buff or damage buff.
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On May 08 2015 00:01 Laserist wrote:
I don't see a way for Rubick to become a good defensive support in any case. He can do something in early game with heroes like Lina but otherwise he offers less than more support in lane.
Stunning multiple heroes is good and instant spells are good. The damage reduction is very good too if they want to commit to the kill anyway.
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On May 08 2015 05:57 Terrorbladder wrote:No mention of Lion with Mana Drain into ez Mana Void? Spell is kinda shit btw with the cast animation which is the problem that only people who play AM will understand. It should get some cast point buff or damage buff.
I'm always for AM buffs  It's not that bad of a cast point, I honestly can't recall many games where someone goes out of range or dodges me in the fog when I'm about to ult them.
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Rubick+AM gets wrecked by almost any halfway decent dual.
Rubick can maybe disrupt a kill attempt (maybe...), but then his mana's gone and you're stuck with a support that loses harass trades against like 90% of the pool. The hero's just not very strong unless his lane partner brings a lot of damage to capitalise on his 0-castpoint initiation.
AM doesn't really want a super defensive support anyway. He going to want something that can exert pressure over the lane early and maybe create kill attempts with blink->manabreak support.
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For those interested, a recent replay of Black playing Anti Mage.
It's worth a watch, if only because it's a great example of Black persevering when a game is NOT going well. The laning phase is a total mess, even his last hitting was notably sloppy, but Black turns it all around by choosing smart fights.
Match ID: 1455773743
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1455773743
For anti-mage success in pubs comes from your ability to succeed in less than optimal lane conditions.
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any advice on how to deal with meepo as antimage?
from my knowledge only diffusal and bkb helps to deal with his net which both feel like suboptimal early pickups after fury; and you still have to face the threat of his blink hex poof later on
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You might need to adjust your build so that you can fight before the Meepo can. Skip battlefury, grab a vlads, casual bracer or vitality booster, and go straight manta from there. You have moderate damage in the midgame, and your team should be able to win the 5v4s. Dodge their main disables and go after their backline heroes. If you can get a mana void off on a high mana pool support who's out of mana in range of someone else you can do a lot of damage safely before you're able to otherwise man-up.
If that's not an option, try to just out-maneuver him with your ratting. Split-push around him as is possible. If you're forced to take a fight he's present in, don't try and 1v1 him, just blink around him in fights to avoid getting netted. Your team can handle the Meepos if you clear the rest first. Even with his high magic resistance if you can land a mana void next to Meepo on a high mana pool low mana hero you can knock out a clone's hp pretty easily.
The other solution is to have other heroes on your team that can deal with him. Aoe silences are strong, silencer's global lets you easily pick off Meepo with manta, dp's silence is good, and her ult being physical is going to bypass his magic resistance. Or make his life miserable before he gets off the ground, and just hunt him with easy gankers like Riki or Bounty Hunter. Wyvern's ult and other big aoe disables, especially cast right after he does a blink poof combo can hold him long enough for you and your team to burst him down before he can endless-net you.
Lastly, even if it's a surprise last pick Meepo and your team doesn't have heroes especially strong vs him, just have your team focus on the whole making his life miserable thing anyway. Smoke gank him in the jungle or in whatever lane he's trying to split his Meepos for xp in. Hamstring him before he gets many Meepos and useful items.
Remember dota is a team game. There isn't a way to make an Antimage win a 1v1 vs Meepo (with his clones) once he has his levels and farm, but unless you're playing no rush 20 min mid-only that isn't an issue.
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Stacking butters can be good vs meepo, especially now that hex doesn't disable evasion. Another trick is to tp when netted, if net is chained it won't actually cancel tps, meepo needs to wait until net expires then net you again to cancel, and if he does that you can blink to safety.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 23 2015 18:11 Nightmarjoo wrote:
You might need to adjust your build so that you can fight before the Meepo can. Skip battlefury, grab a vlads, casual bracer or vitality booster, and go straight manta from there. You have moderate damage in the midgame, and your team should be able to win the 5v4s. Dodge their main disables and go after their backline heroes. If you can get a mana void off on a high mana pool support who's out of mana in range of someone else you can do a lot of damage safely before you're able to otherwise man-up.
BF is fine, it really depends on the other heroes in the game. If you aren't staying competitive with him in farming speed, it becomes a lot harder to fight him if he gets an item advantage, which he can do if you don't go BF because Meepo's natural farming speed is so much higher. If he sees you skip BF, he's not going to fight headlong into midgame fighting items--the Meepo player should recognize that without BF, AM's farming speed isn't competitive with Meepo's at all and will farm an item advantage. It's the farming speed of BF that pressures him into trying to fight you earlier in the first place.
On May 24 2015 10:05 Clarty wrote:
Stacking butters can be good vs meepo, especially now that hex doesn't disable evasion. Another trick is to tp when netted, if net is chained it won't actually cancel tps, meepo needs to wait until net expires then net you again to cancel, and if he does that you can blink to safety.
You don't really have the slots to afford getting more than 1 Butterfly vs. Meepo, the things other items do are equally important.
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Yeah I struggled with the AM vs meepo thing a bit. You need to itemize to murder him. Even with a well timed heart, he will still kill you a bfly/bkb should rape him pretty hard. Generally do the normal, treads/bfury/vlads then butterfly/bkb in either order. Bkb lets you survive, butterfly lets you kill. Change the order depending on if you are far enough a head. I think you need stats over mana break against the meepo until you have both items. But I always found it awkward and haven't played it enough to really be confident, but in the few games I found building to murder him is the best way to survive, don't waste your time with a heart.
That TP out thing is really interesting, but I think he should have a .5 second window where you can get netted still.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 24 2015 14:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I think you need stats over mana break against the meepo until you have both items.
For skill order adaptations, I'd argue potentially leveling Spell Shield early over Stats is the more important one to take note of. It's unnecessary if Meepo goes Agh before Blink but if he goes Blink first, it makes his solo-kills significantly harder, because a Blink-first Meepo relies heavily on Poof burst damage when the other Meepos don't have Agh's stats yet.
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I don't play meepo but I thought the build on him was always aghs > blink or his farming gets hit too hard. I think the 1 spell shield point is probably fine but leveling it shouldn't hurt. Without aghs stats and an additional meepo the vlads/bf is probably enough because the poof damage is already reduced by 1 meepo which is like 25%.
But as I said. A lot of this is speculation because I haven't played the matchup as much as I'd like.
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EPT
