The monks of Turstarkuri watched the rugged valleys below their mountain monastery as wave after wave of invaders swept through the lower kingdoms. Ascetic and pragmatic, in their remote monastic eyrie they remained aloof from mundane strife, wrapped in meditation that knew no gods or elements of magic. Then came the Legion of the Dead God, crusaders with a sinister mandate to replace all local worship with their Unliving Lord's poisonous nihilosophy. From a landscape that had known nothing but blood and battle for a thousand years, they tore the souls and bones of countless fallen legions and pitched them against Turstarkuri. The monastery stood scarcely a fortnight against the assault, and the few monks who bothered to surface from their meditations believed the invaders were but demonic visions sent to distract them from meditation. They died where they sat on their silken cushions. Only one youth survived—a pilgrim who had come as an acolyte, seeking wisdom, but had yet to be admitted to the monastery. He watched in horror as the monks to whom he had served tea and nettles were first slaughtered, then raised to join the ranks of the Dead God's priesthood. With nothing but a few of Turstarkuri's prized dogmatic scrolls, he crept away to the comparative safety of other lands, swearing to obliterate not only the Dead God's magic users—but to put an end to magic altogether.
Hello everybody! Dota 2, the upcoming successor to Warcraft III's DotA, is in beta right now. And as with any new game, alongside the veteran players there are going to be a lot of new gamers looking to jump right in. Unfortunately, DotA (for the most part I'll use this term to synonymously define both WCIII DotA and Valve's new Dota 2) has quite a steep learning curve. Even if you know the basics and have a general knowhow of gameplay, such as how laning works, what general items to buy, and how to gank, etc., there's still a major part you are missing before you can jump on in. Namely, you need to learn the heroes... and there are quite a few of them. The Dota 2 pool is still missing a few heroes, but they are being ported over in time. That being said, to effectively play the game you need to know about not only the hero you are playing with... but more importantly the heroes your allies and enemies are controlling.
And that can be a daunting task, one that's turned many people away from DotA. To help lessen the severity of the learning curve, I will create a series of basic hero guides. These will be styled for newer players but will have a basis in competitive play. I'll be mostly talking about skill and skill builds, item builds, hero role(s), and the mentality you should be playing with for the hero in question. In writing this, I'm going to assume you either know about or have done a bit of research on the basics of DotA, such as last-hitting/denying, buying items, etc. And if you're seeing this blog and you have absolutely no clue what DotA is, Bumblebee has written three nicegeneralblogs that can get you started. Additionally, r.Evo maintains the Welcome to Dota 2 thread. BurningSera has also written a more in-depth guide on how to support. Check out TL's Dota 2 Strategy section for more.
Obviously, with so many heroes there won't be enough time for me to write a guide on every single one, but every little bit helps. If you guys like these, you can request heroes to be written about and I will try to oblige. For now though, I'll be writing about heroes that I find interesting and/or like to play. Please note that I'm not a "competitive" (as in I don't really play on a dedicated team and I don't spend time grinding on ladders) player--I enjoy playing inhouses, watching the competitive scene, theorycrafting, and arguing with my roommate over DotA mechanics. Still though, I'm fairly confident that what I write will be useful for anybody looking to get started/learn more about a specific hero. And if you do happen to be an experienced veteran (or you just happen to completely disagree with what I'm saying) with more insight than I, please let me know! Feedback is welcome and appreciated.
For my first hero guide, I'm going to start with Anti-Mage, one of my favorite carries. This hero guide will introduce to you the skills of Anti-Mage (and how to properly utilize them), the mentality you need when playing him, and the items that you should be looking to acquire.
Formerly a tattoo-laden, vision-impaired elf, now a mohawk-wielding, magic-hating monk.
I. Introduction Take a stab at the meaning behind Anti-Mage's name. What is he good at? If you answered with something similar to "it sounds like he is good at countering spellcasters", then you get a cookie. But that's not all! Anti-Mage is also very adept against low-mana support heroes. Anti-Mage's skill set naturally lends itself to quickly evaporating the mana pools of enemies while mitigating their magic damage against him, and lategame he is a very strong carry. In the early days of beta, Anti-Mage was easily the most successful carry. With the continuing expansion of the hero pool, Anti-Mage isn't as dominant as he once was, but he's still an extremely powerful carry. Your team should deal with adept enemy Anti-Mages cautiously and quickly. Anti-Mage doesn't really function well in other roles besides as a carry.
II. When to Pick? So, aside from the fact that he has a cool mohawk, why do want to pick Anti-Mage? And even if he is your best friend for life, when do you choose him? When hero selections are taking place, remember and contemplate the questions below in order to make the informed decision.
Does your team lack a stable carry? Are there lots of mana-dependent heroes on the opposing team? Is your team's strategy based upon high mobility? Does your team have enough inherent disables? Is the opposing team very nuke-heavy? Can you last hit well?
If the answer to a majority of questions is yes, then Anti-Mage is a viable pick.
Does your team already have enough lategame heroes that need farm? Does the opposing team not care (to a certain extent) if their mana is burnt? Does your team lack stuns, crippling slows, and other disables? Are there plenitudes of disables, notably silences and hexes, on the other team? Do you farm like my 99-year-old great-grandmother playing Crystal Maiden?
If you answered a significant number of the above queries with an affirmative, do not pick the blade-wielding monk.
Remember, Anti-Mage has no nuke (aside from his ultimate, Mana Void), no slow, no stun, no silence, no auras, no heals--simply put, he's not meant to be a team player early on. However, given farm, Anti-Mage can put the team on his back. Now that you have a better idea of when and when not to choose Anti-Mage, let's delve deeper into the abyss and discuss what you need be prepared for should Anti-Mage be your hero.
III. Mentality and Gameplay Anti-Mage is played as a hard carry. If you want to play a semi-carrying/ganking role, there are much better heroes to choose. 95% of the time in professional matches and semi-organized pub games, you'll see Anti-Mage being supported in the safe lane.
Should you find yourself playing Anti-Mage in a team without alternative stable carries, know that your team is relying on you to become strong if the game goes late. You have three goals: farm, farm, farm. Don't forget that now. Remember, monks are very good at being solitary, and the Anti-Mage is no exception.
Assess your team. Do you have an aggressive lineup that can gank or apply pressure while you farm up your items? Or is your team more farming oriented, maximizing potential mid- to lategame? In any case, generally you'll want the safe lane: bottom for Radiant and top for Dire. Ask for a babysitter, potentially two to make a trilane if you think you'll be facing staunch opposition. For the first 20-25 minutes, your primary concern is farming. Let your supports win the lane for you. Participate in small clashes in lane, but don't stick your neck out too far. Ask for wards (in pubs oftentimes nobody will buy any), and call for ganks from your solo mid to get your lane overleveled compared to the opposition if the lanes are approximately even in strength. If you're not farming exceptionally, fret not. Just make sure you're not dying early game! Without items, you are extremely weak. Don't dive towers to get kills unless you have support from teammates and the creep wave. Basically, if you can get kills do your best to get them, since the experience and gold from hero kills is nice. However, don't try to be the ganker. You don't have a disable, you don't have much HP, and your blades don't really hurt until later on.
When the laning phase ends and your laning partners leave you, create a safe zone; ask for defensive wards to protect your lane and jungle to spot any unwelcome entry. Farm. Always be prepared to blink to safety. Carry a teleportation scroll at all times. Mow down neutral camps if the lane is too pushed. Farm. Do not jump into team fights that could go either way; only come in if you think your team will sweep the opposition, allowing you to pick up gold and experience. Be greedy: take last hits, both on enemy creeps and heroes, from your teammates. Farm. You can push your lane, but don't push too far. If you see a juicy creep wave halfway around the map, teleport to it. If your enemies are constantly in your face, avoid them by going to another lane. Make smart item choices. There's a pretty established item order that Anti-Mage gets, and I'll discuss that below. Keep your health high, and don't needlessly expend your mana on blinking.
Again, keep in mind: you are not a team player. You leave your team fighting the uphill 4v5 battle, in the hopes that you will return from your meditativefarming retreat with wisdomgame-ending items. And assuming you last hit well and followed the general guidelines I stated above, you should be ready to join the battle at or a little bit before the 30 minute mark. If your team, despite the numerical disadvantage, has been doing well up till now, you should be ready to help them drive the nail home. And if they haven't... well, Anti-Mage is a very good hero for attempting to turn the tide. When lategame rolls around, your primary focus should be on winning (taking down the opponents' barracks and pushing their Ancient), not farming. However, in the more peaceful lulls keep up the killing of creep. Just don't ignore your team any longer, and be prepared to push, defend, and jump into team fights.
Remember, despite your ridiculous magic reduction, you are not invulnerable. Despite defensive HP-boosting items, with your low strength gain, you are frail to concentrated fire. Do not roleplay as John Rambo. Do not dive headlong into overwhelming numbers. Wait for the rest of your team to engage (or to be engaged upon), and jump in after the initial chaos is over. Target heroes that rely on spells, either for dealing damage or for staying alive. They will generally be the opposing team's supports--take them down with your anti-magic prejudice. Blink to chase: do all in your power to kill that enemy at low HP. Blink to stay alive: should you find yourself at low HP/mana and in dire straits, get out. However, through the chaos you should try to spend as much time as possible attacking. Generally speaking, if you are alive and well at the conclusion of a team fight and aren't alone, your team will have emerged victorious. Purchase the bigger-ticket items while prudently saving for buyback, and always be on the lookout for a chance to win. If your team ends up killing Roshan, take the Aegis. You are one of the best heroes to carry it.
While the paragraphs above detail what will probably be your battle plan for a vast majority of the games you play as Anti-Mage, there are always exceptions. On rare occasion, such as when there are multiple other suitable carries on your team, Anti-Mage can play more of a ganker role: supplementing your income from last hitting creeps, a portion of your gold will come from the corpses of enemy heroes. With a built-in blink and mana break, Anti-Mage can be very deadly in the early- and midgame as well with good positioning and game sense. However, you cannot do this alone. With no natural disable, you will have to rely on teammates to provide the necessary slows, stuns, and/or silences to bog down your enemies. However, should a teammate land a sufficient stun that should be enough for you to blink in, whack the unfortunate enemy hero a few times to burn their mana, use your ultimate (Mana Void) to deal more damage, and then pursue with Blink for the kill. Just remember, this is a much riskier way to play Anti-Mage. Before Blink is maxed out, it has a relatively long cooldown; as a ganker you will be maxing out your Mana Break before Blink. And even then, blinking in always invites retaliation. Ganks can go sour: enemy reinforcements may be laying in wait in the shadows, and inbound teleportations may be only seconds away. Once again, you are not Rambo. Do not charge in on your own, and get out if the situation looks dire. You are most definitely not a dedicated ganker. Remember to farm when you get the chance. A ganking Anti-Mage can still transition into the lategame phase decently enough.
Since the chance of you playing a ganking Anti-Mage is very slim, I'm not going to write more about this. If you want to know specifics, PM me.
V. Skills Anti-Mage's skill set is built around blinking in, burning mana, tanking reduced spell damage, and killing high-mana pool, low-HP pool heroes with his ultimate. In this section, we will cover the basics of Anti-Mage's two active skills and two passive abilities, leaving the [slightly] more advanced techniques for a later section. Also, the highlighted red letter in each skill name represents the hotkey from WCIII DotA that was used in conjunction with the skill. DotA 2 defaults all skills to qwer, but if you choose to use Legacy hotkeys you'll be wanting to hit the letters marked in red.
Skill #1: Mana Break | Passive
Level
Mana burned per hit
1
28
2
40
3
52
4
64
Anti-Mage's first ability is his passive orb effect, Mana Break, which burns mana from enemy units with each attack. When mana is burnt, physical damage equal to 60% of the mana burnt is dealt to the target in question. This translates into an extra 17, 24, 31, and 38 damage per attack at levels 1, 2, 3, and 4, respectively. Make full use of this. When farming in lane, utilize the extra damage yielded by Mana Break to last hit the enemy ranged creep a bit sooner. Hit neutrals with mana pools first to decrease a creep camp's overall DPS. Harass enemy heroes and drop their mana pools, rendering them unable or less able to cast spells. One important note: even though Mana Break does physical damage, the ability is blocked by magic immunity, such as that granted through a Black King Bar (BKB). Furthermore,do not purchase items granting orb effects on Anti-Mage since he already has Mana Break, and it is a very powerful orb till the late stages of the game.
Skill #2: Blink | Active: Point
Level
Cooldown
Teleportation Range
1
12 seconds
200-1000 units
2
9 seconds
200-1075 units
3
7 seconds
200-1150 units
4
5 seconds
200-1150 units
Blink grants Anti-Mage amazing mobility, allowing him to quickly teleport short distances for a constant mana cost of 60 at all levels. Note that here is both a minimum and maximum range. As an ability, Blink is probably the most-sought after skill in DotA because of its versatility. With this ability, Anti-Mage can blink into combat and out of it again in a matter of seconds, evade ganks, and speed up his movement across the map. If done properly, Blinking can also avoid projectiles, though if attempting to do so remember to take into account the .4 second teleportation delay.
Skill #3: Spell Shield | Passive
Level
Magic Damage Reduction
1
26%
2
34%
3
42%
4
50%
Spell Shield makes Anti-Mage shrug off magical damage from spells like no other. Combined with the innate 25% magic resistance inherent in all heroes, Anti-Mage will reduce hostile magic damage by 32.5%, 42.5%, 52.5, and 62.5% at levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. Think about it this way: Lion's level 1 ultimate, Finger of Death, deals a whopping 600 magical damage to a single unfortunate target. An Anti-Mage with maxed spell shield and no other magical resistance-affecting conditions/items will only take 225 damage. With this in perspective, it's easy to see that Anti-Mage is amazing at surviving spell-based damage. Just keep in mind that because his HP pool is so low through his pitiful strength, it doesn't matter if 100 extra damage is mitigated if you have 500 HP less than the rest of the heroes in the game.
Skill #4: Mana Void | Active: Unit
Level
Mana Cost
Stun
Damage Dealt per Mana Point Missing
1
125
0.1 seconds
0.6
2
200
0.2 seconds
0.85
3
275
0.3 seconds
1.1
Rounding out Anti-Mage's skill set is his ultimate, Mana Void. This single-target spell with a constant casting range of 600 units and cooldown of 70 seconds at all levels deals magical damage based upon the amount of mana the enemy target is missing. And because of this variability, Mana Void can either be very damaging or very weak. For example, assume there are two enemy heroes, Crystal Maiden and Doom Bringer, that Anti-Mage is contemplating targeting with a level 1 Mana Void. The Crystal Maiden has a total mana pool of 650 and is missing 500 of that, either through casting spells or being burned by Mana Break. Should Anti-Mage choose to use Mana Void on the unfortunate Maiden, the level 1 Mana Void would deal 500 x .6 = 300 magical damage. However, against the Doom Bringer with 150/300 mana, Mana Void only deals 150 x .6 = 90 damage. From this, it can easily be seen that Mana Void isn't simply point-and-click. When using Mana Void, make sure you're targeting a hero that's missing most of its large mana pool. Mana Void also has a few other noteworthy points. When Mana Void is cast, there is a mini-stun inflicted upon the target (useful for canceling channeling spells or teleportation scrolls). Secondly, even though Mana Void is a single-target spell, damage dealt is inflicted equally within a 300 AoE. To avoid this mini-section becoming too long, implications of both these effects will be covered below, in the advanced usage section.
VI. Skill Builds Your skill build may vary based on the opposition. I will provide two basic skill builds. Remember, these are not set in stone: each game is unique and there may be outstanding circumstances in which you will need to deviate from a preset path. Use these builds as guidelines, not as absolutes.
1. Blink 2. Mana Break 3. Spell Shield 4. Blink 5. Mana Break 6. Mana Void 7. Blink 8. Mana Break 9. Blink 10. Mana Break 11. Mana Void 12. Spell Shield 13. Spell Shield 14. Spell Shield 15. Stats 16. Mana Void 17-25. Stats
Justification: You take Blink at level 1 for survivability, and Mana Break/Spell Shield on level 2 and the one not chosen on level 3. Take Mana Break the majority of the time at level 2, only taking Spell Shield if you think the enemies will be able to kill you in one concentrated lockdown session. After this, max out Blink and Mana Break, pausing to take Mana Void at level 6 because Anti-Mage's ultimate is too useful to be passed up on. While maxing Spell Shield first allows you to survive much better in the midgame ganking phase, where chained magical spells are prevalent, you will find that being able to Blink away faster is useful. You can take more points in Spell Shield early if the enemy is extremely nuke-heavy and is always in your face. Max Spell Shield after Blink and Mana Break are both at level 4, remembering to take Mana Void when you can.
1. Blink 2. Mana Break/Spell Shield 3. Spell Shield/Mana Break 4. Stats 5. Stats 6. Mana Void 7. Blink 8. Blink 9. Blink 10. Mana Break/Spell Shield 11. Mana Void 12. Mana Break/Spell Shield 13. Mana Break/Spell Shield 14. Spell Shield/Mana Break 15. Spell Shield/Mana Break 16. Mana Void 17. Spell Shield/Mana Break 18-25. Stats
Justification: This build, first coined by professional Chinese player and captain, DK.BurNIng, is useful when you can grab a very safe lane for farming. The two extra points in stats early on give you desperately-needed HP. You max out Blink after taking Mana Void at 6, since it'll coincide with your Battle Fury timing--which allows you to move around and clear neutral camps very quickly. Depending on the enemy team, you can choose to max Mana Break or Spell Shield, or take levels of each equally. Anti-Mage still won't be joining fights early. Unless team DK was extremely pressed, BurNIng didn't come to the battlefront without Battle Fury and Manta Style, and sometimes not without another big item.
VII. Item Builds There are currently 129 purchasable items in DotA. That is a lot of items. Of course, as a carry Anti-Mage wouldn't be touching most of them, but there are still enough items that Anti-Mage can effectively use to make item builds not completely cookie-cutter. As with everything else in this guide, you can deviate from what I suggest. My builds are those elicited from watching professional games and my own personal games, but what works for me doesn't necessarily have to work for you.
After talking about starting and early game items, I'll discuss the general item pool for a farming hard carry Anti-Mage. The first two big items will almost always be the same, but after that you have some choices to make. Situational and rejected items for Anti-Mage will be covered as well.
Starting Items Anti-Mage is not a support. Don't feel the need to buy a courier or wards. Your money should go toward regeneratives, stat-boosting items, and the beginnings of your core items. In very organized (inhouse/competitive) games your supports may even buy your regeneratives for you, but generally in public games that won't happen. Since this guide assumes you didn't random Anti-Mage, you start out with 603 gold. I'll provide some item suggestions below.
Option 2: Stout Shield (250), Ring of Protection (175), Tangoes (90)
Always grab a Stout Shield. Early on for melee heroes the item is amazing--as a low-HP melee hero with poor starting armor, Anti-Mage will be feeling every enemy blow. Stout Shield really cuts down on that harassment, since a 60% chance to block 20 damage means on average every attack that lands on you is reduced by 12. And if you happen to accidentally draw creep aggression, with a stout shield you'll barely feel a thing since melee creep do only 21-23 damage. The Stout Shield can be upgraded into the Poor Man's Shield or Vanguard, both of which can be useful but not necessary on Anti-Mage. The healing salve and tangoes serve nicely in patching up any damage that the Stout Shield couldn't block. The last little bit of money you have can be sunk into an Ironwood Branch for just a tiny bit of stats padding.
The second option trades a bit of regeneration for a Ring of Protection. This build is good if you want to go for a quick Tranquil Boots. Despite only have one set of Tangoes to start out with, if you wait just a little bit you can ferry yourself an extra Salve or set of Tangoes with the courier.
If you know you are going against enemy heroes that spam their spells a lot, such as Batrider or Lich, grab an early Magic Stick. The early burst heal is invaluable, and it goes nicely into your magic wand. Still though, in general the benefits granted through that the Stout Shield is better than the Magic Stick to start out with. Consider upgrading your Stick to a Magic Wand if it behooves you; sell it later on if not.
Early Game Items Anti-Mage isn't a very versatile hero, and again isn't a team player. As such, he'll be getting items that benefit himself (and not his team). Here are some of the early game items that you should be looking for if you're playing Anti-Mage.
Pictured: Ring of Health, Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Stout Shield and Ring of Health should be obtained first. If you follow my instructions, you'll start out with the Stout Shield. If not, you can buy both of these items from the side shop. The damage block from Stout Shield is very useful on a melee hero like Anti-Mage with low HP, and Ring of Health will allow you to regenerate damage done from harassment quickly. If you are farming really well or get a first blood kill, buy that Ring of Health quickly. These two useful items can either be upgraded into Poor Man's Shield / Perseverance or used together to make a Vanguard. These upgrades will be discussed in the Core Items section.
I hold the belief that pretty much every hero in the game should get a Magic Stick. The maximum burst heal of 150 HP / 150 MP isn't as as good as a Mekansm, but having one of these can provide Anti-Mage the extra bit of HP he needs to escape from ganks. Oftentimes you'll be finding yourself chain-stunned, and you'll be just able to blink away as soon as the last stun ends... but then you die. A Magic Stick can help to solve that problem. On Anti-Mage, I don't really feel the need to upgrade it into the Magic Wand.
Almost every hero should get Boots of Speed sooner than later. Anti-Mage is no exception, since with Boots and Blink your mobility is amazing. You can chase very aggressively with Boots and Blink, and in the same way you can escape enemies looking to kill you. In general, purchase Boots after your Ring of Health. In some professional games, you'll see Anti-Mage players finishing Battle Fury before buying Boots, but I wouldn't recommend that for a public game. Eventually, the boots should be upgraded, and there are five options. Before moving onto the discussion about core items, let's talk about the boots dilemma.
VSVSVSVS Phase Boots ---- Power Treads ---- Arcane Boots ---- Tranquil Boots ---- Boots of Travel Which pair of boots do I buy?
Of these four choices, three are inferior. Arcane Boots grant you nice burst mana regeneration, but Anti-Mage doesn't really need much mana... Blink costs 60 mana and Mana Void isn't used too frequently. Remember: you are a farmer. In any sense, Anti-Mage needs to focus on two things: damage and survivability. Arcane Boots provide neither. Do not buy them.
Boots of Travel provide a huge movespeed increase of 100, but the recipe is very expensive. Buy these only after you've maxed out every other item slot late, late into the game.
Phase Boots help you chase and grant more damage, but since you're looking to farm don't bother buying these as they don't scale as well later on.
Now then, the choice is between Power Treads and Tranquil Boots. Both are viable choices on Anti-Mage, though depending on the situation one will be better than the other. The majority of the time, you'll want to get Power Treads. They are versatile: the ability to switch between modes means Anti-Mage can buff his ridiculously low HP pool, increase his armor/damage, or have that extra bit of mana for Blink or Mana Void. Power Treads are very useful since they increase your attack speed and allow you to clear neutral camps quickly.
You should really only go for Tranquil Boots if the laning phase is tough. The passive and active regeneration granted from Tranquil Boots add up to more than what you would get from a Ring of Health, and the cost is similar. You can later disassemble these Tranquil Boots for Treads or Travels and use the Ring of Protection and Ring of Regeneration for a Vladimir's Offering. Remember though that you should be aiming for Treads over Tranquil Boots if possible.
Core (Midgame) Items After purchasing your early items, look to upgrade them into bigger-ticket items. The first three 'big' items you want to get are going to be the same. The order may vary a bit, and you can choose to pick up other items if needed.
The golden item you want to go for is the Battle Fury. Get this as quickly as possible. Once you grab this item, your farming speed will increase to an alarming rate. The cleave allows you to mow down creep waves (or neutral creep camps) quickly, and the +6 HP regeneration, +65 damage, and +150% mana regeneration all help Anti-Mage quite well. In the midgame, Anti-Mage is one of the best junglers with Vanguard and Battle Fury finished since he can blink to a neutral camp, clear it out quickly, and move on to the next. And with the increased HP and MP regeneration granted through Battle Fury, he can stay in the jungle for quite some time. Battle Fury is an amazing item if completed early, since it expedites Anti-Mage's farm in the midgame.
Battle Fury has a decently expensive buildup. You'll want the Ring of Health early almost always, and then either finish the Perseverance or pick up the two sword parts. Generally, pick up Boots after your Ring of Health, but don't upgrade them till you finish your Battle Fury.
At some point before finishing Battle Fury (after either the Perseverance or one of the sword parts), pick up a Quelling Blade. The 32% increase in damage output will help your farming immensely.
If you are in a tough lane, get your Tranquil Boots before Ring of Health, the continue into the Battle Fury. If you aren't being horribly pressured, finish Battle Fury before upgrading to Treads.
After picking up your Battle Fury and upgrading your Boots, work towards the Manta Style. The Ultimate Orb and Yasha make up the Manta Style, and cost roughly the same amount. Which one you pick up first depends on the state of the game. The increased attack speed from Yasha helps you clear camps much faster, and the +10 to all stats from the Ultimate Orb help you to survive. If your enemies are held at bay by your teammates, grab Yasha first. If they're still up in your face (or seem very eager to chase you around the map), grab the Ultimate Orb first. Complete the Manta Style as quickly as possible. After that item is done, generally you are ready to fight.
Oh, and how could I forget... Always have one of these.
Pictured: The single most important item in all of DotA
Always have a Teleportation Scroll on hand. Use it to jump to a lane with a lot of enemy creeps, escape back to the fountain, or more generally as a quicker form of transportation. It doesn't matter what hero you are playing: always carry one of these.
Lategame Items As stressed above multiple times, Anti-Mage is not a team player. Quite the opposite: he is a selfish monk. For the early- and mid-game, your teammates will be protecting you through wards and their bodies, and come 30 or 40 minutes into the game, it's time to pay back the favor. Remember, don't stop farming altogether... Just be prepared to lead (or second) the charge into enemy territory. Anti-Mage is a hard carry, but he isn't the hardest--given equal farm, Spectre and Faceless Void will beat Anti-Mage, and against Sniper or Drow it can go either way. After you finish your Manta Style, be prepared to fight.
When you join your team, have something like this:
You'll have damage through Battle Fury and Manta, attack speed from Treads and Manta, and survivability through your natural abilities (Blink, Spell Shield), Manta Style illusions, and in general just being higher-leveled than the opposition (after all, you've been getting solo experience for the last 15 minutes). If your team has been doing well before you joined them, then your arrival with an item set akin to this should many times be enough to win the game. Of course, this is not an end-all set: there are still other items you should go for in between your pushes and team fights. Before we talk about them though, let us take a look at the beautiful Manta Style.
Pictured: Manta Style
Unless severely pressed, do not fight before finishing Manta Style. While it doesn't provide any additional stats/AS/MS bonuses that the Ultimate Orb and Yasha grant, it does provide you the infinitely valuable Mirror Image ability. As a melee hero with a natural feedback (mana burn) orb, Anti-Mage benefits immensely from Manta Style. Let's do some simple mathcraft.
Popping Manta Style grants you two illusions that move at the same speed you do, attack at the same speed you do, and burn the same amount of mana per hit as you do. Assume you blink up to a hero, pop Manta, and start attacking him. Between you and your illusions, swiping once each burns 64 x 3 = 192 mana. That translates into 192 x 0.6 = 115 physical damage through feedback alone, or 77 damage through illusions. At this point, attacking an enemy with your hero and two images generally spells the doom of that hero. At the very least, they will quickly be rendered unable to cast spells. What good is a support that can't cast? He or she is no better than an above-average creep.
Popping Manta Style also rids Anti-Mage of many crippling debuffs. Despite the 50% reduction from Spell Shield, Anti-Mage is still very vulnerable to burst damage and chain stuns because of his low HP pool (even if you grabbed a Vanguard). Manta Style gets rid of those nasty slows and silences, and suddenly the enemy team finds themselves facing not one, but three blade-wielding monks. Panic will ensue.
Know though that illusions do not benefit from raw plus damage, meaning they do not gain the +65 damage from Battle Fury. After completing Manta Style, if you're looking to make your illusions stronger, try to add Agility, not pure plus damage.
Now, I will talk about the other items that Anti-Mage generally gets in the lategame. I will divide the item choices into two groups: offensive and defensive. Let us look at the more offensive-based items first.
Pictured: Butterfly, Skull Basher, Monkey King Bar, Vladimir's Aura, Crystalys, Daedalus
Butterfly is every Agility carry hero's dream. +60 damage (30 through agility and 30 through raw), +60 AS (30 through agility and 30 through raw), and 30% evasion? Yes, yes please. With this item, Anti-Mage and his illusions will attack at close to maximum Attack Speed, dealing whopping amounts of damage per blow as well. Being able to evade 30% of physical attacks is invaluable as well, especially if you are going toe to toe with the opposing carry. You will almost always want this item: it comes down to when you can buy this, since Butterfly is quite expensive to make. I normally go straight for Butterfly as my next item after Manta, but in some cases you may want either a different item, either offensively, such as a Basher or Monkey King Bar, or defensively, such as a Black King Bar or Heart of Tarrasque.
Skull Basher provides decent plus damage and a good disable. While you can't permanently stun an enemy anymore since the stun lasts 1.4 seconds while the cooldown is two seconds, since Anti-Mage attacks so quickly it's still very close to being a perma-stun. If your team is lacking stable disables and/or your opponents are escaping through Force Staffs, blinks, or other mobility-shifting skills or items, consider getting one of these. Just remember that your illusions do not benefit from either the plus damage or the bash ability.
Monkey King Bar provides even more plus damage than Skull Basher and is useful against enemy heroes with powerful channeling spells, such as Enigma or Shadow Shaman. Unlike with Skull Basher, your illusions do gain the mini-bash (which also adds +100 damage) ability, so channeling enemies won't be able to keep their spells going. However, this isn't the main reason you get this item: you get it for the true strike if the enemy carries go for Butterfly. Compared to Butterfly, Monkey King Bar is inferior. Only get it if before Butterfly you really need to deal with the enemy carry's evasion.
Vladimir's Offering gives a plus damage aura and a lifesteal aura, allowing Anti-Mage the ability to lifesteal that he otherwise wouldn't be able to get. This can increase his survivability on the battlefield, but only if he can attack. This item is great if your team can keep the enemy in place and off your back for you to chop them to pieces, but if this is the case you can still consider asking a support or another hero on your team to buy it. The aura benefits do not help the bearer any more than they help anybody affected by the aura. If you made Tranquil Boots earlier in the game, you can use the Ring of Protection and Ring of Regeneration for the Vlad's.
Crystalys (lesser crit) and its bigger brother Daedalus (greater crit) are gotten after you already have a massive amount of damage, and want to ramp it up even more. I rarely see this item on Anti-Mage though. Generally heroes who get a critical strike item already have good survivability, either through positioning, such as Drow Ranger, Weaver, and Sniper, or natural tankiness, such as Faceless Void, Slardar, and Night Stalker. Anti-Mage has to dedicate a portion of his farm to attack speed and tankiness, so critical strike would be gotten very late in the game, after, say, Butterfly and Heart are finished.
So the items listed above are really good for taking down enemies quickly. But what if you find yourself constantly dying or blinking away at low health? Consider tanking up through more defensive items.
Pictured: Black King Bar, Heart of Tarrasque
Black King Bar grants a bit of strength, a bit of damage, and most importantly, the magic immunity-granting avatar. Despite Spell Shield and HP increase through Vanguard, Anti-Mage is still very much so at risk of being nuked down since his HP pool is still so low. BKB prevents people from disabling you for 5 to 10 seconds, allowing you to burn away all your enemies' mana and take them down. I don't normally get this on Anti-Mage, but if the enemy is packing many stuns, consider getting one of these.
There are two cases where you really don't want to get a BKB though. The first is if the enemy has many BKB-ignoring ultimate disables. Think Enigma's Black Hole, Bat Rider's Flaming Lasso, and Faceless Void's Chronosphere. They won't care if you have BKB--you'll still be disabled. The second case is if the enemy team relies heavily on physical damage, either through hard-hitting heroes (enemy carries) or from minus-armor strategies. In these cases, if you find yourself at a lack of health, consider getting the ultimate tanking item, the Heart of Tarrasque. Between the strength gain and the raw HP boost, you'll find yourself an extra 1060 HP to work with. This is heaven for Anti-Mage: blink in, Manta up, and go hog wild. If you find yourself low, blink out, wait for a few seconds, and let the 2%/second regeneration of Heart heal you back up to full HP in no time. After getting a Heart, you can generally get rid of your Vanguard if you had one.
And if the game goes very, very late, there are two final items that should be considered.
Pictured: Boots of Travel and Divine Rapier
Swap your Power Treads out for Boots of Travel after you have four other big-ticket items and need that slot that the Teleportation Scroll is taking up. This makes you even faster and allows you to travel the map quickly.
Ah, the Divine Rapier. This should be the very, very last item you should get. If the game goes very late, generally there should be a stronger carry on the other side. Divine Rapier provides the +300 damage that can instantly wipe a team fight... or get you wiped in the next team fight should you die. This is definitely the end-all item. Be very careful when purchasing this, for it can either instantly bring about victory... or spell your certain defeat. Later on, Anti-Mage is a very good candidate for a Divine Rapier through tankiness granted by the Heart and Spell Shield, and his naturally high attack speed and low base attack time allow him to make full use of the damage.
Situational Items So I've now gone over most of the lategame items Anti-Mage will be looking to get in a normal game. There are, however, situational items that you may get once in a while should the situation demand it.
VS Poor Man's Shield versus Vanguard
Both of these items provide Anti-Mage a comparable damage block, and they don't stack. So which one should you get? Poor Man's Shield is better against physical hero harassment early on since it will always block 20 damage off every enemy hero attack, and it keeps the 60% chance to block creep damage. It's also relatively cheap to assemble: add two Slippers of Agility on top of the Stout Shield and you've got it. It's a nice early game source of Agility and damage block for Anti-Mage, but this doesn't scale well later on: blocking 20 of 50 damage is nice, but blocking 20 of 150 damage is relatively trivial.
Vanguard can be made by adding a Vitality Booster to your Ring of Health and Stout Shield. Two years ago, this was considered a must-have on Anti-Mage. It greatly increase his HP pool, has a good damage block, and adds a bit more regeneration than what Ring of Health provides. However, these days almost nobody gets Vanguard on Anti-Mage. We'll discuss later below.
Poor Man's Shield is cheaper, and I find it better than Vanguard. By getting the Poor Man's Shield, you can use your Ring of Health for the Battle Fury. Note that neither Poor Man's Shield or Vanguard is required on Anti-Mage--I won't get them unless I'm extremely pressured.
Pictured: Scythe of Vyse, Necronomicon, Gem of True Sight, Linken's Sphere, Assault Cuirass
Scythe of Vyse, also known as Sheepstick/Hexstick is generally got on other heroes or supports. But should you need an extra disable, Anti-Mage can carry one as well. Blink in, hex somebody, Manta Style, and that unfortunate hero cannot escape and should be dead.
Necronomicon provides two minions with a wide range of useful benefits, such as movespeed aura, attack speed aura, true sight, even more mana burn... And the +STR helps make Anti-Mage more tanky. Consider getting this if you're dealing with invisible heroes such as Rikimaru, Brood Mother, or heroes with Shadow Blade such as Drow Ranger or Sniper. If you don't feel like sinking a lot of gold into this item, just get a Gem of Truesight. Anti-Mage is very good at carrying this gem, but it does take up a valuable item slot.
Linken's Sphere allows you to perhaps survive that critically dooming spell, be it a hex, Mirana's arrow, or even Doom itself. However, this is an expensive item to farm up and if you're going to get it, and is almost always worse than a BKB. You may consider this if the opponent is ganking you with, say, one extremely long-range spell (such as Beastmaster's Roar) that goes through BKB. I've never gotten Linken's Sphere in any of my Anti-Mage games, but it's worth documenting.
Assault Cuirass provides you extra armor, Attack Speed, and a minus armor aura to the enemy team. Very good for dealing extra damage to opposing heroes, but Anti-Mage already has nearly maxed attack speed with regular items. If another hero on your team can get this item, it's much better since you already have the attack speed and can get comparable armor through agility-boosting items.
Rejected Items There are some items that Anti-Mage just shouldn't get. Either he gets no benefits from them, or the benefits are far outweighed by the costs. We'll look at a few of them now.
Pictured: Diffusal Blade, Helm of the Dominator, Satanic, Mask of Madness, Maelstrom, Mjollnir
What do these items have in common? They're all orbs. Anti-Mage's Mana Break is already a very powerful orb. These orbs are not needed. Eye of Skadi isn't listed since it is a very powerful orb, as it helps your survivability through more HP and it can slow down the enemy carry's attack speed. If you are adamant about replacing Mana Break in the lategame, get Skadi. Do not get any of the other orbs, for reasons detailed below.
I once saw an Anti-Mage on my team get a Diffusal Blade. All other players in the game starting flaming him. He said it was for the purge. What? Just don't get this item. You already have a better mana break, and the purge is trivial: an ally's hexstick or disable will do just the same thing. If you really need the purge (against Omniknight's Repel, for example), let somebody else get it.
Lifesteal through Helm of the Dominator, its big brother Satanic, and its crazy second cousin Mask of Madness should be avoided. If you really want lifesteal, either get or ask somebody to get a Vladimir's Offering. Of the three, Satanic is the least unacceptable since it at least gives you tanking ability and survivability through the +25 STR and the active three second 175% lifesteal.
Maelstrom and Mjollnir randomly send out chain lightning blasts that deal 150/160 magical damage. You do more per shot with Mana Break and illusions (images don't benefit from Maelstrom or Mjollnir). The attack speed increase is negligible since Anti-Mage already has a very high attack speed.
Pictured: Armlet of Mordiggian, Ethereal Blade, Soul Ring, Refresher Orb, Shadow Blade, Blink Dagger, Force Staff
Armlet of Mordiggian provides you a temporary strength boost but drains your health. The attack speed increase is trivial. Anti-Mage doesn't have the HP pool to support this and the buildup doesn't suit him at all.
Anti-Mage only has one nuke: his ultimate. And that's pretty much a one-shot thing. Ethereal Blade can amplify the damage of that and provides nice stats overall, but at the cost of not being able to attack for three seconds? Anti-Mage is a right-click DPS hero. Do not get this item.
Soul Ring sacrifices much-needed HP, and your only real active skill has a five second cooldown. No need. The same line of reasoning holds for the Refresher Orb. It might be tempting to be able to knock off two heroes at once with ultimate, refresh, ultimate, but that is very mana-intensive (375 for refreshing and 550 to use Mana Void twice for a total mana cost of 925). Aside from that, it doesn't offer Anti-Mage anything else really for its exorbitant cost.
Shadow Blade, Blink Dagger, and Force Staff are positional items. With a cheap, five second cooldown Blink, why do you need these items?
VIII. Special Tactics Here I will talk about some of the more advanced uses and notes for Anti-Mage's skills, as well as give a more detailed breakdown of what you should do in a typical team fight. I apologize in advance for the lack of screenshot pictures--I'm a bit lazy at this point!
Mana Break
Harass enemy heroes when you get a chance. Burning their mana means extra damage for them and a reduced ability to cast spells. Even if you trade hits early on, you have restoratives and will be purchasing a Ring of Health. Just be careful not to jump into too many enemies at once. Against melee heroes you should have a really easy time.
When farming in the lane, remember that after Mana Break is skilled it becomes much easier to last hit the ranged creep, since it has a mana pool. Remember though that this doesn't work on allied creep.
Similarly, when farming the jungle targeting a neutral creep with a mana pool means you can do more damage to it. Satyr camps are your best friends, since all four creeps spawned have a mana pool. However, it's a trade off: generally the creep in a camp with a mana pool is the stronger/strongest one, so it might be faster to take out the smaller creep first.
After purchasing Battle Fury, definitely hit the creep with a mana pool. The extra damage through feedback hits the other creep as well.
Manta illusions do full mana burn. Sometimes in team fights you can send your illusions to harass an enemy support, forcing them to run around to avoid losing mana instead of casting spells.
Mana Break does not work on magic immune units. So if you're trying to burn the mana off a unit with BKB, it doesn't do anything for the duration of the BKB avatar.
Blink
You can only blink to territory previously explored by your team. Make sure in your idle/transit time to cover potential paths you might want to blink to. This includes areas in the border trees. Blinking there can sometimes save your life when the other team can't follow!
Know your Blink range. If you try to Blink more than your allotted maximum range, you'll only go 4/5s of the distance instead. This seems trivial since that's at most 230 units, but when you're being chased by five enemy heroes that can make or break you!
There is a minimum range on Blink. While this usually isn't a problem, keep that in mind if you're trying to make "micro jumps" in order to avoid enemy projectiles while still staying in the same general area.
Speaking of dodging projectiles, you can use Blink to dodge certain enemy stuns. This takes timing and practice though, and the .33 second delay on Blink can often get you killed early on. No matter how good you become at blink-dodging, don't become overconfident. Best to not have a stun thrown at you whenever possible.
When chasing another hero with Blink or a Blink-like spell (such as Morphling's Waveform or Mirana's Leap), don't jump the gun and Blink too early. Wait for them to use their spell, and follow them. Anti-Mage has the shortest Blink cooldown in the game, and combined with Mana Break and dogged persistence you can bring down an enemy hero with good prediction.
Another thing about chasing: whenever possible blink in front of a fleeing hero. This allows you to get a few more hits in while they run around you.
Spell Shield
While you want to mitigate damage done to you, remember that you take less damage from spells than your teammates do. If you are relatively healthy in terms of HP, bait some nukes out to save a fleeing teammate.
Similarly, early- to mid-game you can act as some sort of bait if you have high levels of Spell Shield. Have your teammates stay back in the shadows, and have them jump when enemy heroes try to instantly kill you with massive amounts of nukes. After the enemy spells go on cooldown, your team should be able to clean up. Don't die in the process!
Mana Void
There are two trains of thought: Mana Void has a short cooldown (60 seconds), so use it to get isolated kills quite liberally. Besides this, Blink, and Manta Style, Anti-Mage doesn't use much mana for anything else.
In team fights, be careful about who you use this on. Since it's dependent upon the pure total of missing mana, hitting somebody who's missing 200 mana doesn't do much damage. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you burned an enemy's mana or they expended it on spells; Mana Void hurts just the same.
There are two main ways to use Mana Break in team fights. Since you don't have a short enough cooldown on it to use it twice generally, you can either pop it early or later on. As a single target spell, you can easily take out a hero early on with Mana Break and Mana Void. However, keeping it in reserve will make enemies more wary to expend mana on big spells. I generally prefer the early assassination option.
Mana Void has a mini-stun. You can use this to cancel a teleportation scroll or a channeling spell. However, this doesn't go through BKB, so don't bother trying.
Most importantly: Mana Void has an AoE effect. Damage is calculated based on how much mana the primary target is missing, but it deals the same damage to all enemies in a 300 radius circle. This can be very powerful if cast on, say, a Storm Spirit missing most of his mana in the middle of three other enemy heroes.
What to do in Team Fights Unless your team is running a "let's use this super tanky Anti-Mage as bait" strategy, you should not be the first to leap into a team fight. Blinking in may cause your enemies a slight amount of confusion, but after a short bit they will start lobbing all their nukes and disables on you... Which isn't necessarily what you want. Even worse, a more experienced team will just coolly react and take you out with chain stuns before your team can bail you out. In short, you don't initiate. However, after the battle has broken, do blink in. Don't blink in randomly though--blink on top of your target of choice. Anti-Mage excels at taking out supports first, so generally you'll want to blink on one of the enemy supports. They'll be lower-leveled and under-farmed, and as such will be food for you and your Manta illusions. Take them out quickly (using Mana Void if you deem them important enough to the team fight to have to take out early) and move on to the next target. Don't waste time running around though--Blink if the next target is sufficiently far away, and oftentimes they will be since the first support will try to run. Whatever the case is, send your illusions to attack other supports or mana-dependent heroes, just to mess up their positioning and burn a bit of mana. If you find yourself low on health, blink out. Try to predict when dodgeable enemy spells such as Earthshaker's Fissure or Queen of Pain's Sonic Wave will hit you, and blink to dodge. After taking out supports and powerful, mana-dependent spellcasters, go after the enemy carries. Of course, if the enemy carry is dependent on casting spells to deal damage or increase their survivability/mobility, such as Slardar or Night Stalker, drain their mana since they have low mana pools. Don't waste your time taking their health after their mana is depleted though--go kill those supports.
If you are initiated on, assess how severe it is. As long as you aren't hexed, you can break disables with Manta Style. Pop it, and either stand your ground to fight if you feel your team's counter-initiation will win the game, or blink out while leaving your illusions to act as a bit of distraction.
If and when you get the Aegis, you can afford to be more aggressive. Go down swinging--don't give your life up needlessly--and be prepared to fight or flight when the respawn happens. With an Aegis, I generally prefer using Mana Void early, since the team fights can be a bit more extended. You may have a chance to use a second Mana Void in here, so blow it early to kill an important hero (or even a support), and if it comes off cooldown that's just a nice bonus.
IX. Friends, Foes, and Food Lastly, let's talk about some good allies and powerful foes Anti-Mage has, as well as heroes that he absolutely eats for breakfast.
The Friends: Earthshaker, Clockwerk Goblin, Vengeful Spirit, Nature's Prophet, Jakiro
Really, any hero with a stun is Anti-Mage's friend. Since he lacks a disable anybody who can set up a disable on an enemy hero so that Anti-Mage can cut him/her down is an ally. In particular, Earthshaker, Clockwerk Goblin, and Nature's Prophet are extremely good for Anti-Mage. Earthshaker's Fissure blocks off travel, restricting Anti-Mage's prey from running away. Clockwerk and Prophet are even better. Power Cogs and Sprout, respectively, create a ring around enemies, trapping them in. Normally other melee heroes wouldn't be able to hit enemies trapped in Cogs or Sprout, but Anti-Mage can blink in and go to town. Vengeful Spirit gets a special mention since she has a nice stun early on and can swap Anti-Mage out of a team fight if need be... and oftentimes Anti-Mage finds himself in way too deep. Heroes with AoE stuns such as Jakiro are extremely useful to Anti-Mage, as he can have his pick on who to kill and is less likely to be stopped during his rampage through the enemy lines.
The Foes: Night Stalker, Faceless Void, Drow Ranger, Rikimaru, Shadow Fiend, Bloodseeker, Lion, Omniknight
In general, heroes with silences, strong disables, and other lategame carries with farming potential can be a threat to Anti-Mage. Night Stalker, Drow Ranger, Bloodseeker, and Rikimaru all have silences, which prevent you from Blinking away. These are also heroes that are more effective than you are early on, and heavily rely on physical damage to kill you. In the beginning, run away from these guys. Bloodseeker, Drow Ranger, and Rikimaru also have ways to keep you from moving through slows (Drow and Rikimaru) or Rupture.
Heroes such as Faceless Void and Shadow Fiend have the potential to aid the team more early on and exert midgame presence. Given equivalent amounts of farm, they can also stand toe to toe with you in the late stages of the game while still providing more to their teams in large-scale engagements.
Heroes such as Lion are also dangerous due to their long-duration disables. Particularly noteworthy are Lion and Shadow Shaman, who both have the Hex ability which will remove any evasion you have. Once you turn into a chicken, your life may be quite short. Beastmaster's Roar is another ability that can catch you off guard from afar. In general, be wary of people with long-range (or Blink Dagger-assisted) single-target initiation.
Omniknight gets a special mention because his ultimate, Guardian Angel, shields his team from your powerful auto-attacks. Repel also makes it so that you can't burn somebody's mana. He can't really kill you on his own without assistance, though be careful early on to not get nuked by the pure damage Purification.
Going to note here that enemy lineups that excel at pushing can spell doom for an Anti-Mage. As Anti-Mage, you want to farm for the first 25-30 minutes of the game, but you can't do so if your team has lost all the outer towers. However, should the enemy team not gain too insurmountable of an advantage through their pushing, you can take the game when it gets later.
The Food: Vengeful Spirit, Venomancer, Chen, Zeus, Crystal Maiden, Necrolyte, Ancient Apparition, Lich
Though these heroes may annoy you during the laning and midgame phases, later on they just become food. Of the heroes listed, only Vengeful Spirit and Crystal Maiden have a way to defend themselves adequately. These heroes are all very mana-dependent and lack armor, so you can rip them to shreds before Mana Voiding them (should you so desire). For heroes such as Zeus, who can still hurt early on when you have a low HP pool, once you start bulking up their magic-based damage will barely tickle. Ask yourself: what's more satisfying than slicing open a Lich that had been constantly using Frost Nova on you during the laning phase?
Final Words If you managed to read this whole thing, there's something wrong with you. But if you did do so, I thank you. Hopefully this guide provided some insight into the workings of Anti-Mage, and more generally how one should approach a hero when starting to play Dota 2. Once again, suggestions and feedback comments (whether positive or negative) are welcome, and if you have questions I'll try to answer them.
Hello everybody! So as you may or may not know, DotA 2, the upcoming successor to Warcraft III's DotA, is in beta right now. And as with any new game, alongside the veteran players there are going to be a lot of new gamers looking to jump right in. Unfortunately, DotA (for the most part I'll use this term to synonymously define both WCIII DotA and Valve's new DotA 2) has quite a steep learning curve. Even if you know the basics and have a general knowhow of gameplay, such as how laning works, what general items to buy, and how to gank, etc., there's still a major part you are missing before you can jump on in. Namely, you need to learn the heroes... and there are quite a few of them. Currently the DotA 2 pool has roughly 50, with more being ported over from the DotA 1 pool of 104 heroes each week. To effectively play the game you need to know about not only the hero you are playing with... but more importantly the heroes your allies and enemies are wielding!
And that can be a daunting task, one that's turned many people away from DotA games. So what I'm going to do is start a series of basic hero guides, styled for newer players but with a basis in competitive play. I'll be mostly talking about skill and skill builds, item builds, hero role(s), and the mentality you should be playing with for the hero in question. In writing this, I'm going to assume you either know about or have done a bit of research on the basics of DotA, such as last-hitting/denying, buying items, etc. And if you're seeing this blog and you have absolutely no clue what DotA is, Bumblebee has written three nicegeneralblogs that can get you started, and we plan to write more in the future... so be on the lookout for those as well.
Obviously, with so many heroes there won't be enough time for me to write a guide on every single one, but every little bit helps. If you guys like these, you can request heroes to be written about and I will try to oblige. For now though, I'll be writing about heroes that I find interesting and/or like to play. Please note that I'm not a "competitive" (as in I don't really play on a dedicated team and I don't spend time grinding on ladders) player--I enjoy playing inhouses, watching the competitive scene, theorycrafting, and arguing with my roommate over DotA mechanics. Still though, I'm fairly confident that what I write will be useful for anybody looking to get started/learn more about a specific hero. And if you do happen to be one of those gosu experienced veterans (or you just happen to completely disagree with what I'm saying) with more insight than I, please let me know! I'm new to writing this kind of stuff, so feedback is welcome and appreciated.
Oh, and there will be a competition-styled giveaway for a Beta key... Details at the bottom!
For my first hero guide, I'm going to start with Anti-Mage, one of my favorite carries. This hero guide will introduce to you the skills of Anti-Mage (and how to properly utilize them), the mentality you need when playing him, and the items that you should be looking to acquire.
Formerly a tattoo-laden, vision-impaired elf, now a mohawk-wielding, magic-hating monk.
I. Introduction Take a stab at the meaning behind Anti-Mage's name. What is he good at? If you answered with something similar to "it sounds like he is good at countering spellcasters", then you get a cookie. But that's not all! Anti-Mage is also very adept against low-mana support heroes. Anti-Mage's skill set naturally lends itself to taking down the mana pools of enemies while mitigating their magic damage against him, and lategame he can become quite powerful. With the DotA 2 hero pool as of right now, Anti-Mage is one of the best hard carries. Your team should deal with adept enemy Anti-Mages cautiously and quickly. Anti-Mage can also function quite well as a semi-carry/ganker, though to be effective in this role he needs teammate support, as he has no natural disable of his own.
II. When to Pick? So, aside from the fact that he has a cool mohawk, why do want to pick Anti-Mage? And even if he is your best friend for life, when do you choose him? When hero selections are taking place, remember and contemplate the questions below in order to make the informed decision.
Does your team lack a stable carry? Are there lots of mana-dependent heroes on the opposing team? Is your team's strategy based upon high mobility? Does your team have enough inherent disables? Is the opposing team very nuke-heavy? Can you last hit well?
If the answer to a majority of questions is yes, then Anti-Mage is a very viable pick.
Does your team already have enough lategame heroes that need farm? Does the opposing team not care (to a certain extent) if their mana is burnt? Does your team lack stuns, crippling slows, and other disables? Are there plenitudes of disables, notably silences and hexes, on the other team? Do you farm like my 99-year-old great-grandmother playing Crystal Maiden?
If you answered a significant number of the above queries with an affirmative, do not pick the blade-wielding monk.
Remember, Anti-Mage has no nuke (aside from his Ultimate), no slow, no stun, no silence, no auras, no heals--simply put, this monk is not a team player. However, given farm, Anti-Mage can put the team on his back. Now that you have a better idea of when and when not to choose Anti-Mage, let's delve deeper into the abyss and discuss what you need be prepared for should Anti-Mage be your hero.
III. Mentality and Gameplay There are two standard ways to play Anti-Mage: as the more common hard carry, or as the less-seen semi-carry/ganker. I will discuss the mindset you should (generally) take when playing as each role, though since the farming carry Anti-Mage is much more prevalent, that will be the main focus.
Should you find yourself playing Anti-Mage in a team without alternative stable carries, know that your team is relying on you to become strong if the game goes late. You have three goals: farm, farm, farm. Don't forget that now. Remember, monks are very good at being solitary, and the Anti-Mage is no exception.
Assess your team. Do you have an aggressive lineup that can gank while you farm? Is your team more farming oriented, maximizing potential mid- to lategame? In any case, generally you'll want the safe lane: bottom for Radiant and top for Dire. Ask for a babysitter, potentially two to make a trilane if you think you'll be facing staunch opposition. Early on, your primary concern is farming. Let your supports win the lane for you. Ask for wards (in pubs oftentimes nobody will buy any), and call for ganks from your solo mid to get your lane overleveled compared to the opposition. If you're not farming exceptionally, fret not. Just make sure you're not dying early game! Without your vanguard, you are extremely weak. Don't dive towers to get kills unless you have support from teammates and the creep wave. Basically, if you can get kills do your best to get them, since the experience and gold from hero kills is nice. However, don't try to be the ganker. You don't have a disable, you don't have much HP, and you don't have the movespeed to run circles around your enemies.
When the midgame rolls around and your laning partner(s) leave(s) you, create a safe zone; ask for defensive wards to protect your short lane (bottom for Radiant and top for Dire) and jungle. Farm. Always be prepared to blink to safety. Carry a teleportation scroll at all times. Mow down neutral camps. Farm. Do not jump into team fights that could go either way; only come in if you think your team will sweep the opposition, allowing you to pick up gold and experience. Be greedy: take last hits, both on enemy creeps and heroes, from your teammates. Farm. You can push your lane, but don't push too far. Make smart item choices, as there is no set-in-stone item build for Anti-Mage. Keep your health high, and don't needlessly expend your mana on blinking.
Keep in mind: for the first, say, thirty minutes of the game, you are not a team player. You leave your team fighting the uphill 4v5 battle, in the hopes that you will return from your meditativefarming retreat with wisdomgame-ending items. And assuming you last hit well and followed the general guidelines I stated above, at this point you should be ready to join the battle. If your team, despite the numerical disadvantage, has been doing well up till now, you should be ready to help them drive the nail home. And if they haven't... well, Anti-Mage is a very good hero for attempting to turn the tide. When lategame rolls around, your primary focus should be on winning (taking down the opponents' barracks and pushing their Ancient), not farming. However, in the more peaceful lulls keep up the killing of creep. Just don't ignore your team any longer, and be prepared to push, defend, and jump into team fights.
Remember, despite your ridiculous magic reduction, you are not invulnerable. Despite defensive HP-boosting items, with your low strength gain, you are frail to concentrated fire. Do not roleplay as John Rambo. Do not dive headlong into overwhelming numbers. Wait for the rest of your team to engage (or be engaged upon), and jump in after the initial chaos is over. Target heroes that rely on spells, either for dealing damage or for staying alive. They will generally be the opposing team's supports--take them down with your anti-magic prejudice. Blink to chase: do all in your power to kill that enemy at low HP. Blink to stay alive: should you find yourself at low HP/mana and in dire straits, get out. However, through the chaos you should try to spend as much time as possible attacking. Generally speaking, if you are alive and well at the conclusion of a team fight and aren't alone, your team will have emerged victorious. Purchase the bigger-ticket items while prudently saving for buyback, and always be on the lookout for a chance to win. If your team ends up killing Roshan, take the Aegis. You are one of the best heroes to carry it.
While the paragraphs above detail what will probably be your battle plan for 90% of the games you play as Anti-Mage, there are always exceptions. In some cases, when there is another suitable carry on your team, Anti-Mage can play more of a ganker role: supplementing your income from last hitting creeps, a portion of your gold will come from the corpses of enemy heroes. With a built-in blink and mana break, Anti-Mage can be very deadly in the early- and midgame as well. However, you cannot do this alone. With no natural disable, you will have to rely on teammates to provide the necessary slows, stuns, and/or silences to bog down your enemies. However, should a teammate land a sufficient stun that should be enough for you to blink in, whack the unfortunate enemy hero a few times to burn their mana, use your ultimate (Mana Void) to deal more damage, and then pursue with Blink for the kill. Just remember, this is a much riskier way to play Anti-Mage. Before Blink is maxed out, it has a relatively long cooldown, and as a ganker you will be maxing out your Mana Break before Blink. And even then, blinking in always invites retaliation. Ganks can go sour: enemy reinforcements may be laying in wait in the shadows, and inbound teleportations may be only seconds away. Once again, you are not Rambo. Do not charge in on your own, and get out if the situation looks dire. You are also not a dedicated ganker. Remember to farm, when you get the chance.
With more gank-based Anti-Mage play, you will be comparatively not as strong in the lategame had you chosen the farming route. Assuming your ventures into enemy territory were relatively successful, you will have some decent items to enter the ending phases of the game. And even if your items aren't as awesome as that of a farming Anti-Mage, as a successful ganking Anti-Mage your presence and actions should have kept down your opponents, meaning they are relatively weaker as well. At this point, look to win the game through big pushes. Farm in the downtime, and be prepared for the game going longer than expected. For teamfights, the same advice as detailed above pertains.
V. Skills Anti-Mage's skill set is built around blinking in, burning mana, tanking reduced spell damage, and killing high-mana pool, low-HP pool heroes with his ultimate. In this section, we will cover the basics of Anti-Mage's two active skills and two passive abilities, leaving the [slightly] more advanced techniques for a later section. Also, the highlighted red letter in each skill name represents the hotkey from WCIII DotA that was used in conjunction with the skill. DotA 2 defaults all skills to qwer, but if you choose to use Legacy hotkeys you'll be wanting to hit the letters marked in red.
Skill #1: Mana Break | Passive
Level
Mana burned per hit
1
28
2
40
3
52
4
64
Anti-Mage's first ability is his passive orb effect, Mana Break, which burns mana from enemy units with each attack. When mana is burnt, physical damage equal to 60% of the mana burnt is dealt to the target in question. This translates into an extra 17, 24, 31, and 38 damage per attack at levels 1, 2, 3, and 4, respectively. Make full use of this. When farming in lane, utilize the extra damage yielded by Mana Break to last hit the enemy ranged creep a bit sooner. Hit neutrals with mana pools first to decrease a creep camp's overall DPS. Harass enemy heroes and drop their mana pools, rendering them unable or less able to cast spells. One important note: even though Mana Break does physical damage, the ability is blocked by magic immunity, such as that granted through a Black King Bar (BKB). Furthermore,do not purchase items granting orb effects on Anti-Mage since he already has Mana Break, and it is a very powerful orb.
Skill #2: Blink | Active: Point
Level
Cooldown
Teleportation Range
1
12 seconds
200-1000 units
2
9 seconds
200-1075 units
3
7 seconds
200-1150 units
4
5 seconds
200-1150 units
Blink grants Anti-Mage amazing mobility, allowing him to quickly teleport short distances for a constant mana cost of 60 at all levels. Blinking is only allowed to areas previously explored, and there is both a minimum and maximum range. As an ability, Blink is probably the most-sought after skill in DotA because of its versatility. With this ability, Anti-Mage can blink into combat and out of it again in a matter of seconds, evade ganks, and speed up his movement across the map. If done properly, Blinking can also avoid projectiles, though if attempting to do so remember to take into account the .33 second teleportation delay.
Skill #3: Spell Shield | Passive
Level
Magic Damage Reduction
1
26%
2
34%
3
42%
4
50%
Spell Shield makes Anti-Mage shrug off magical damage from spells like no other. Combined with the innate 25% magic resistance inherent in all heroes, Anti-Mage will reduce hostile magic damage by 32.5%, 42.5%, 52.5, and 62.5% at levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. Think about it this way: Lion's level 1 ultimate, Finger of Death, deals a whopping 500 magical damage to a single unfortunate target. An Anti-Mage with maxed spell shield and no other magical resistance-affecting conditions/items will only take 188 damage. And with a Hood of Defiance granting 30% additional magic resistance, the damage from Finger of Death is mitigated further to a paltry 131 damage. With this in perspective, it's easy to see that Anti-Mage is amazing at surviving spell-based damage. Just keep in mind that because his HP pool is so low through his pitiful strength, it doesn't matter if 100 extra damage is mitigated if you have 500 HP less than the rest of the heroes in the game.
Skill #4: Mana Void | Active: Unit
Level
Mana Cost
Stun
Damage Dealt per Mana Point Missing
1
125
0.1 seconds
0.6
2
200
0.2 seconds
0.85
3
275
0.3 seconds
1.1
Rounding out Anti-Mage's skill set is his ultimate, Mana Void. This single-target spell with a constant casting range of 600 units and cooldown of 70 seconds at all levels deals magical damage based upon the amount of mana the enemy target is missing. And because of this variability, Mana Void can either be very damaging or very weak. For example, assume there are two enemy heroes, Crystal Maiden and Doom Bringer, that Anti-Mage is contemplating targeting with a level 1 Mana Void. The Crystal Maiden has a total mana pool of 650 and is missing 500 of that, either through casting spells or being burned by Mana Break. Should Anti-Mage choose to use Mana Void on the unfortunate Maiden, the level 1 Mana Void would deal 500 x .6 = 300 magical damage. However, against the Doom Bringer with 150/300 mana, Mana Void only deals 150 x .6 = 90 damage. From this, it can easily be seen that Mana Void isn't simply point-and-click. When using Mana Void, make sure you're targeting, in general, a high-mana pool, low-health pool hero that is missing a good portion of mana. Mana Void also has a few other noteworthy points. When Mana Void is cast, there is a mini-stun inflicted upon the target. Secondly, even though Mana Void is a single-target spell, damage dealt is inflicted equally within a 300 range Area of Effect. To avoid this mini-section becoming too long, implications of both these effects will be covered below, in the advanced usage section.
VI. Skill Builds Depending on what role (carry or ganker) you choose to take with Anti-Mage, your skill build may vary. Here I will provide basic skill builds for either. Remember, these are not set in stone: each game is unique and there may be outstanding circumstances in which you will need to deviate from a preset path. Use these builds as guidelines, not as absolutes. Pirate code?
1. Blink 2. Mana Break/Spell Shield 3. Spell Shield/Mana Break 4. Blink/Mana Break 5. Mana Break/Blink 6. Mana Void 7. Spell Shield/Blink 8. Blink/Spell Shield 9. Mana Break/Spell Shield 10. Spell Shield/Blink 11. Mana Void 12. Blink/Mana Break/Spell Shield 13. Mana Break/Blink/Spell Shield 14. Spell Shield/Blink/Mana Break 15. Stats 16. Mana Void 17-25. Stats
Justification: This build is the one I'd recommend for newer players starting out. It emphasizes survivability over damage, while still allowing for the typical lane and jungle farming Anti-Mage should be doing. For all heroes, generally at level 1 the skill chosen is either a disable or an escape spell. Anti-Mage does not have a disable, so Blink is taken at level 1 in order to survive those nasty first blood attempts. Depending on the lane, Mana Break or Spell Shield is taken at level 2, with Mana Break chosen if you and your teammates are looking to dominate the lane (especially if the enemy lane has any melee heroes) and Spell Shield taken if you feel the enemy is going to be very active in harassing you with spells. Whatever the case, take whatever you didn't take at level 2 when you reach level 3. Take your ultimate when you can at levels 6, 11, and 16. The key part of this build is to level up one level of each of the first three skills at a time, and cycle through them. This will grant you killing power through a more powerful Mana Break, mobility through a Blink with a shorter cooldown, and survivability through improved magic resistance with Spell Shield. All of Anti-Mage's skills are so good, so don't pick up Stats until nothing else is left. Of course, I'm a bit more defensively-oriented than most people: it may suit your tastes to pick up extra levels of Mana Break early on since the best defense may well be pure offense. Burning away more mana in fewer hits early on means that enemy heroes will have less opportunities to cast harmful spells upon you.
For a more organized game though (meaning both teams are relatively coordinated), I'd recommend the build listed directly below this one.
1. Blink 2. Mana Break/Spell Shield 3. Spell Shield/Mana Break 4. Spell Shield 5. Spell Shield 6. Mana Void 7. Spell Shield 8. Blink/Mana Break 9. Mana Break/Blink 10. Blink/Mana Break 11. Mana Void 12. Mana Break/Blink 13. Blink/Mana Break 14. Mana Break/Blink 15. Stats 16. Mana Void 17-25. Stats
Justification: Blink at level 1 for survivability, and Mana Break/Spell Shield on level 2 and the one not chosen on level 3 for reasoning similar to what was listed above. After this, max Spell Shield out first, pausing to take Mana Void at level 6 because Anti-Mage's ultimate is too useful to be passed up on. Maxing Spell Shield first allows you to survive much better in the midgame ganking phase, where chained magical spells are prevalent. Since you will not be participating in team fights or ganks due to your primary duty as a farmer, there's no need to have a shorter cooldown on Blink, and the extra 7 damage granted through each level of Mana Break is not as marginally useful as being able to survive coordinated enemy ganks... especially in public games, where wards are lacking. After Spell Shield is maxed, unless there are extenuating circumstances (you manage to farm up 20000 gold worth of items by level 7 and are ready to join the fight, dealing 300 damage a hit) alternate between leveling up Blink and Mana Break. I generally favor leveling up Blink first, since it helps with lessening the travel time between neutral creep camps, and the reduced cooldown means I can be a bit more liberal in my teleporting without worrying about enemy ganks coming in the downtime between Blinks. Again, Mana Void is taken as soon as possible at level 11, and Stats are only taken when there is nothing left to take. Anti-Mage's skills are amazing, and an extra 2 STR, AGI, and INT are not worth it. To talk a bit more about the efficacy of this particular skill build, this is what the professional DotA farmer ZSMJ, of the Chinese team iG uses. While there might be some variance in his builds from game to game, the core is the same: max Spell Shield by 7, farm away, and carry lategame. Did I mention that even among professional DotA players, ZSMJ is one of the best, if not the best?
1. Blink 2. Mana Break/Spell Shield 3. Spell Shield/Mana Break 4. Blink/Mana Break 5. Mana Break/Blink 6. Mana Void 7. Mana Break 8. Mana Break 9. Blink 10. Blink 11. Mana Void 12. Spell Shield 13. Spell Shield 14. Spell Shield 15. Stats 16. Mana Void 17-25. Stats
Justification: The word "neutral" has two connotations. The first involves the literal definition of neutral: it is not as defensive in nature as the first build, allowing Anti-Mage some killing power should your team be forced into a teamfight involving Anti-Mage during the early/midgame. The second involves the actual neutral camps residing in the jungle. After a certain level, when Anti-Mage is strong enough he can just blink between neutral camps to supplement his farming when the lane is pushed. Of course, you would prefer to have the lane stay relatively in the same spot... but nobody's perfect! The first three levels follow similarly to the Defensive Farming Carry build, but after that a second level of Blink is taken before the midgame. Mana Break is then maxed by level 8, so as to better kill neutrals with mana pools (and the occasional hero that Anti-Mage can get his hands on in forced teamfights). Blink is then maxed by level 10, since with proper farm around that time Anti-Mage will be able to blink to a camp, kill it in 5 or 6 seconds, and then blink to the next camp if he so chooses. Spell Shield is maxed last, and again Mana Void is taken as soon as it becomes available. A warning label comes attached to this build though: because you will oftentimes be expending a lot of mana on Blink and losing a good deal of HP from neutrals' attacks early on while farming in the jungle; since your magic resistance through Spell Shield isn't comparably as good, you must be very careful not to be caught with your pants down in an enemy gank. Always leave enough mana to be able to Blink away twice from pursuers (which will leave you enough to teleport away as well in the event that you get ganked by enemies that only have slows for disables). With proper warding, you can farm slightly faster using this build than with the Defensive Farming Build through the extra damage granted through Mana Break.
1. Mana Break/Blink 2. Blink/Mana Break 3. Spell Shield 4. Mana Break 5. Mana Break 6. Mana Void 7. Blink 8. Mana Break 9. Blink 10. Blink 11. Mana Void 12. Spell Shield 13. Spell Shield 14. Spell Shield 15. Stats 16. Mana Void 17-25. Stats
Justification: If you plan to play more of the hero-killing role, this is the build for you. Though the first three levels look similar to that of the farming carry builds, you may choose to take Mana Break at level 1 if you think your team will be able to pull off an aggressive first blood in lane. The basis of this build is to max Mana Break by 8, with two levels of Blink and one level in Spell Shield taken before then. Throughout midgame, as long as there is another hero (or two) to disable an enemy, you can blink in, chop their mana down to zero, Mana Void them, and chase for the kill if needed. Blink is maxed after Mana Break, and Spell Shield last. Of course, this can be changed: if you find your enemies packing very heavily in nuking power, consider swapping levels of Mana Break for Blink and Spell Shield early on. Remember: Mana Void does damage based on how much mana is missing. It matters not whether mana was burned away through mana break or expended on spells, and you can bet that you'll be seeing a fair number of nukes and stuns dropped on your head when you blink in. Exercise temperance with your aggression, or you will oftentimes find yourself staring at the respawn counter.
VII. Item Builds There are currently 123 purchasable items in DotA. That is a lot of items. Of course, as a carry Anti-Mage wouldn't be touching most of them, but there are still enough items that Anti-Mage can effectively use to make item builds not cookie-cutter. As with everything else in this guide, you can deviate from what I suggest. My builds are those elicited from watching professional games and my own personal games, but what works for me doesn't necessarily have to work for you.
After talking about starting and early game items, I'll discuss the general item pool for a farming hard carry Anti-Mage since that is the more common route to take. Ganking Anti-Mage items will also be covered. Since both routes go toward the same lategame result, I will talk about the general items you want to purchase as an Anti-Mage when the game goes late after the two disparate tracks are covered. Situational items and rejected items for Anti-Mage will be covered as well.
Starting Items Anti-Mage is not a support. Don't feel the need to buy a courier or wards. Your money should go toward regeneratives, stat-boosting items, and the beginnings of your core items. In very organized (inhouse/competitive) games your supports may even buy your regeneratives for you, but generally in public games that won't happen. Since this guide assumes you didn't random Anti-Mage, you start out with 603 gold. Regardless of whether you plan to farm heavily or be more of a ganker, there are two main starting options for Anti-Mage.
The first option is the one I get when playing pubs. Stout Shield early on for melee heroes is amazing--as a low-HP melee hero, you'll be feeling every enemy blow. Stout Shield really cuts down on that harassment, since a 60% chance to block 20 damage means on average every attack that lands on you is reduced by 12. And if you happen to accidentally draw creep aggression, with a stout shield you'll barely feel a thing since melee creep do barely over 20 damage. The Stout Shield also goes into the Poor Man's Shield or Vanguard, both of which are amazing on Anti-Mage and are part of his core. The three Ironwood Branches provide some nice early stats. The extra HP is always nice and the extra mana means you'll have more to work with when blinking, and they go nicely into a Magic Wand... which is useful on any and every hero. The healing salve and tangoes serve nicely in patching up any damage that the Stout Shield couldn't block.
The second option with a Quelling Blade is preferable when you're working in a trilane or have an extremely good babysitter for a dual lane. Of course, the defensive capability of the Stout Shield is foregone, but the 32% increase in damage against creeps makes it a lot easier to last-hit. Anti-Mage's starting damage is already respectable, and with a Quelling Blade last-hitting is a breeze. Quelling Blade also synergizes well with Battle Fury, so if you plan to go that route this is a good way to start. The rest of your starting items are the same as in the first option. Just a warning though: this is only useful if you are in a position to last-hit creep. Obviously, don't try this if you don't have a decent babysitting support since you'll just find yourself sitting back behind the creep wave, unable to use your higher damage to obtain gold.
If you find yourself against enemy heroes that spam their spells a lot, such as Batrider, Lich, Broodmother, etc., consider getting a Magic Stick instead. The early burst heal is invaluable, and it goes nicely into your magic wand. Still though, in general the benefits granted through Stout Shield or Quelling Blade (or both if you have supports kind enough to buy you restoratives!) are better than the Wand to start out with. Consider upgrading it to a Magic Wand if it behooves you, sell it later on if not.
Early Game Items Anti-Mage isn't a very versatile hero, and isn't a team player. As such, he'll be getting items that benefit himself (and not his team). Here are some of the early game items that you should be looking for if you're playing Anti-Mage.
Pictured: Ring of Health, Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Stout Shield and Ring of Health should be bought first. The order can vary, but 95 times out of 100 you'll want both. The damage block from Stout Shield is very useful on a melee hero like Anti-Mage with low HP, and Ring of Health will allow you to regenerate damage done from harassment quickly. If you didn't buy your Stout Shield right off the bat, get it from the side shop. And if you're farming very, very well... buy that Ring of Health quickly. These two useful items can either be upgraded into Poor Man's Shield / Perseverance or used together to make a Vanguard. These upgrades will be discussed in the Core Items section.
I hold the belief that pretty much every hero in the game should get a Magic Stick. The maximum burst heal of 150 HP / 150 MP isn't as as good as a Mekansm, but having one of these can provide Anti-Mage the extra bit of HP he needs to escape from ganks. Oftentimes you'll be finding yourself chain-stunned, and you'll be just able to blink away as soon as the last stun ends... but then you die. A Magic Stick can help to solve that problem.
Almost every hero should get Boots of Speed early on. Anti-Mage is no exception, since with Boots and Blink your mobility is amazing. You can chase very aggressively with Boots and Blink, and in the same way you can escape enemies looking to kill you. In general, purchase Boots after your Ring of Health, or in some cases after Vanguard is completed. Eventually, the boots should be upgraded, and there are four options. Before moving onto the discussion about core items, let's talk about the boots dilemma.
VSVSVS Phase Boots ---- Power Treads ---- Arcane Boots ---- Boots of Travel Which pair of boots do I buy?
Of these four choices, two are inferior. Arcane Boots grant you nice burst mana regeneration, but Anti-Mage doesn't really need much mana... Blink costs 60 mana and Mana Void isn't used too frequently. Remember: you are a farmer. In any sense, Anti-Mage needs to focus on two things: damage and survivability. Arcane Boots provide neither. Do not buy them.
Boots of Travel provide a huge movespeed increase of 95, but the recipe is very expensive. Buy these only after you've maxed out every other item slot late, late into the game.
Now then, the choice is between Power Treads and Phase Boots. Both are viable choices on Anti-Mage, though depending on the situation one will be better than the other. Power Treads are versatile: the ability to switch between modes means Anti-Mage can buffer his ridiculously low HP pool, increase his armor/damage, or have that extra bit of mana for Blink or Mana Void. Power Treads are very useful on a defensive farming Anti-Mage, and the attack speed increase never hurts. Phase Boots are bought on a more aggressive Anti-Mage, perhaps one that is looking more to gank. They boost Anti-Mage's damage by 24, which is quite a bit in the early game. They also allow Anti-Mage to chase even more aggressively: between Blink and the Phase ability of Phase Boots, enemy heroes are not getting away. However, Phase Boots do not provide survivability, and don't scale as well into the late game. Buy these if your team is able to back you up with stuns, slows, and other disables when you're ganking. Anti-Mage with Phase Boots generally signifies a desire to end the game relatively early.
Core (Midgame) Items After purchasing your early items, look to upgrade them into bigger-ticket items, and there are a few paths you can take. For instance, don't buy both Phase Boots and Power Treads. The movespeed bonus doesn't stack, even though you have two feet. When applicable, I'll pair off core items and talk about when to get what. We'll begin by talking about the defensive items that can be made from a Stout Shield.
VS Poor Man's Shield versus Vanguard
Both of these items provide Anti-Mage a comparable damage block, and they don't stack. So which one should you get? Poor Man's Shield is better against physical hero harassment early on since it will always block 20 damage off every enemy hero attack, and it keeps the 60% chance to block creep damage. It's also relatively cheap to assemble: add two Slippers of Agility on top of the Stout Shield and you've got it. It's a nice early game source of Agility and damage block for Anti-Mage, but this doesn't scale well later on: blocking 20 of 45 damage is nice, but blocking 20 of 150 damage is relatively trivial. Poor Man's Shield is cheaper, but I almost always find it inferior to Vanguard. Of course, if you're rushing a Battle Fury, then you don't have to get an extra Ring of Health.
Vanguard can be made by adding a Vitality Booster to your Ring of Health and Stout Shield. In addition to the increased damage block (60% chance to block 40 damage works out to equivalently blocking 28 damage per enemy attack) It provides Anti-Mage, the regeneration is nice as well and the increase to Anti-Mage's pitiful HP pool is most welcome. Vanguard allows Anti-Mage to play more aggressively, and makes him much harder to kill. Jungling becomes a breeze with Vanguard, as neutral creeps will barely scratch Anti-Mage. I recommend buying Vanguard on Anti-Mage over Poor Man's Shield 99% of the time: the buildup is nice, the increased HP pool allows you to fight more aggressively, and the damage block is better.
VS Phase Boots versus Power Treads
After finishing one of the two (hint: get Vanguard) shield items above, upgrade your Boots. Either get Power Treads or Phase Boots. I recommend Power Treads.
VSVS Battle Fury versus Yasha versus Ultimate Orb
After completing Vanguard or Poor Man's Shield, you will want some damage. There are three generally accepted first items to go for: Battle Fury, Yasha, and Ultimate Orb. Now, this isn't like Phase Boots/Power Treads or Poor Man's Shield/Vanguard. You will always want the Yasha and Ultimate Orb to make a Manta Style--the Battle Fury is optional, and if you're going to get it get it first.
Battle Fury is an amazing farming item. The cleave allows you to mow down creep waves (or neutral creep camps) quickly, and the +6 HP regeneration, +65 damage, and +150% mana regeneration all help Anti-Mage quite well. In the midgame, Anti-Mage is one of the best junglers with Vanguard and Battle Fury finished since he can blink to a neutral camp, clear it out quickly, and move on to the next. And with the increased HP and MP regeneration granted through Battle Fury, he can stay in the jungle for quite some time. Battle Fury is an amazing item if completed early, since it expedites Anti-Mage's farm in the midgame.
If there is one core item on Anti-Mage, it would be Yasha. Increased attack speed, agility, and movespeed... it's everything Anti-Mage wants, and it goes into the Manta Style. Hands down, Anti-Mage is the best wielder of Manta Style, and I'll explain that below in the late game item section.
If you are farming well, get a Battle Fury early on after Vanguard. By staying in the safe lane and safe jungle (top for Dire and bottom for Radiant), you can move between the neutral creep camps and the lane to farm extremely quickly. In no time, you'll find yourself with the gold to buy a Yasha. I generally recommend going for a Battle Fury first, but if you're not farming very well, get a Yasha first since it scales into lategame better... and almost always your number one priority with Anti-Mage should be to finish a Manta Style.
The Ultimate Orb and Yasha make up the Manta Style, and cost roughly the same amount. If you can farm well, get the Ultimate Orb first. The +10 to all stats will be very noticeable in the early/mid-game, especially in the survivability department. Yasha can be made up of smaller components, so you don't have to save up 2100 gold at once.
Note: As a ganking Anti-Mage, do not buy a Battle Fury, since the cleave is mostly irrelevant if you're going to spend most of your time hunting individual heroes. Get that Ultimate Orb or Yasha first, and work toward that Manta Style as quickly as possible. As a ganking Anti-Mage, getting a Vladimir's Offering is also viable, and I will cover that in the lategame section.
Oh, and how could I forget... Always have one of these.
Pictured: The single most important item in all of DotA
Always have a Teleportation Scroll on hand. Use it to jump to a lane with a lot of enemy creeps, escape back to the fountain, or more generally as a quicker form of transportation. It doesn't matter what hero you are playing: always carry one of these.
Lategame Items As stressed above multiple times, Anti-Mage is not a team player. Quite the opposite: he is a selfish monk. For the early- and mid-game, your teammates will be protecting you through wards and their presences, and come 30 or 40 minutes into the game, it's time to pay back the favor. Remember, don't stop farming altogether... Just be prepared to lead (or second) the charge into enemy territory. Anti-Mage is a hard carry, but he isn't the hardest--given equal farm, Spectre and Faceless Void will beat Anti-Mage, and against Sniper it can go either way. After you finish your Manta Style, be prepared to fight.
At the time I join my team, this is generally my item set:
This item set is pretty balanced. It offers survivability (+STR from Manta and Strength Treads, damage block from Vanguard, and burst heal through Magic Wand), attack speed (from Manta and Power Treads) and damage (from Manta and Battle Fury). If your team has been doing well before you joined them, then your arrival with an item set akin to this should many times be enough to win the game. Of course, this is not an end-all set: there are still other items you should go for in between your pushes and team fights. Before we talk about them though, let us take a look at the beautiful Manta Style.
Pictured: Manta Style
Do not fight before finishing Manta Style. Conversely, as soon as you finish Manta Style, fight. While it doesn't provide any additional stats/AS/MS bonuses that the Ultimate Orb and Yasha grant, it does provide you the infinitely valuable Mirror Image ability. As a melee hero with a natural feedback (mana burn) orb, Anti-Mage benefits immensely from Manta Style. Let's do some simple mathcraft.
Popping Manta Style grants you two illusions that move at the same speed you do, attack at the same speed you do, and burn the same amount of mana per hit as you do. Assume you blink up to a hero, pop Manta, and start attacking him. Between you and your illusions, swiping once each burns 64 x 3 = 192 mana. That translates into 192 x 0.6 = 115 physical damage through feedback alone, or 77 damage through illusions. At this point, attacking an enemy with your hero and two images generally spells the doom of that hero. At the very least, they will quickly be rendered unable to cast spells. What good is a support that can't cast? He or she is no better than an above-average creep.
Popping Manta Style also rids Anti-Mage of many crippling debuffs. Despite the 50% reduction from Spell Shield, Anti-Mage is still very vulnerable to burst damage and chain stuns because of his low HP pool (even with Vanguard). Manta Style gets rid of those nasty stuns and silences, and suddenly the enemy team finds themselves facing not one, but three blade-wielding monks. Panic will ensue.
Know though that illusions do not benefit from raw plus damage, meaning they do not gain the +65 damage from Battle Fury. After completing Manta Style, if you're looking to make your illusions stronger, try to add Agility, not pure plus damage.
Now, I will talk about the other items that Anti-Mage generally gets in the lategame. I will divide the item choices into two groups: offensive and defensive. Let us look at the more offensive-based items first.
Pictured: Butterfly, Skull Basher, Monkey King Bar, Vladimir's Aura, Crystalys, Daedalus
Butterfly is every Agility carry hero's dream. +60 damage (30 through agility and 30 through raw), +60 AS (30 through agility and 30 through raw), and 30% evasion? Yes, yes please. With this item, Anti-Mage and his illusions will attack at close to maximum Attack Speed, dealing whopping amounts of damage per blow as well. Being able to evade 30% of physical attacks is invaluable as well, especially if you are going toe to toe with the opposing carry. You will almost always want this item: it comes down to when you can buy this, since Butterfly is quite expensive to make. I normally go straight for Butterfly as my next item after Manta, but in some cases you may want either a different item, either offensively, such as a Basher or Monkey King Bar, or defensively, such as a Black King Bar or Heart of Tarrasque.
Skull Basher provides decent plus damage and a good disable. While you can't permanently stun an enemy anymore since the stun lasts 1.4 seconds while the cooldown is two seconds, since Anti-Mage attacks so quickly it's still very close to being a perma-stun. If your team is lacking stable disables and/or your opponents are escaping through Force Staffs, blinks, or other mobility-shifting skills or items, consider getting one of these. Just remember that your illusions do not benefit from either the plus damage or the bash ability.
Monkey King Bar provides even more plus damage than Skull Basher and is useful against enemy heroes with powerful channeling spells, such as Enigma or Shadow Shaman. Unlike with Skull Basher, your illusions do gain the mini-bash (which also adds +100 damage) ability, so channeling enemies won't be able to keep their spells going. However, this isn't the main reason you get this item: you get it for the true strike if the enemy carries go for Butterfly. Compared to Butterfly, Monkey King Bar is inferior. Only get it if before Butterfly you really need to deal with the enemy carry's evasion.
Vladimir's Offering gives a plus damage aura and a lifesteal aura, allowing Anti-Mage the ability to lifesteal that he otherwise wouldn't be able to get. This can increase his survivability on the battlefield, but only if he can attack. This item is great if your team can keep the enemy in place and off your back for you to chop them to pieces, but if this is the case you can still consider asking a support or another hero on your team to buy it. The aura benefits do not help the bearer any more than they help anybody affected by the aura.
Crystalys (lesser crit) and its bigger brother Daedalus (greater crit) are gotten after you already have a massive amount of damage, and want to ramp it up even more. I rarely see this item on Anti-Mage though. Generally heroes who get a critical strike item already have good survivability, either through positioning, such as Drow Ranger, Weaver, and Sniper, or natural tankiness, such as Faceless Void, Slardar, and Night Stalker. Anti-Mage has to dedicate a portion of his farm to attack speed and tankiness, so critical strike would be gotten very late in the game, after, say, Butterfly and Heart are finished.
So the items listed above are really good for taking down enemies quickly. But what if you find yourself constantly dying or blinking away at low health? Consider tanking up through more defensive items.
Pictured: Black King Bar, Heart of Tarrasque, Blade Mail
Black King Bar grants a bit of strength, a bit of damage, and most importantly, the magic immunity-granting avatar. Despite Spell Shield and HP increase through Vanguard, Anti-Mage is still very much so at risk of being nuked down since his HP pool is still so low. BKB prevents people from disabling you for 5 to 10 seconds, allowing you to burn away all your enemies' mana and take them down. I don't normally get this on Anti-Mage, but if the enemy is packing many disables, consider getting one of these.
There are two cases where you really don't want to get a BKB though. The first is if the enemy has BKB-ignoring ultimate disables. Think Enigma's Black Hole, Bat Rider's Flaming Lasso, and Faceless Void's Chronosphere. They won't care if you have BKB--you'll still be disabled. The second case is if the enemy team relies heavily on physical damage, either through hard-hitting heroes (enemy carries) or from minus-armor strategies. In these cases, if you find yourself at a lack of health, consider getting the ultimate tanking item, the Heart of Tarrasque. Between the strength gain and the raw HP boost, you'll find yourself an extra 1060 HP to work with. This is heaven for Anti-Mage: blink in, Manta up, and go hog wild. If you find yourself low, blink out, wait for a few seconds, and let the 2%/second regeneration of Heart heal you back up to full HP in no time. After getting a Heart, you can generally get rid of your Vanguard.
Blade Mail is the item you get when your enemies consistently find a way to target you to bring you down. The big spikes scream "target me and take your own damage back" at you: if the enemy team is consistently trying to focus fire you down at the start of a team fight, get this item to make them think twice before unloading all their nukes at you. The +10 INT, +5 armor, and overall +32 damage are nice as well, especially since Blade Mail is a relatively cheap item at 2200 gold. I generally don't get this on Anti-Mage though. It's better used on heroes with larger HP pools since then you can reflect more damage, and Anti-Mage, as said so many times in this guide, doesn't have the HP to work with.
And if the game goes very, very late, there are two final items that should be considered.
Pictured: Boots of Travel and Divine Rapier
Swap your Power Treads out for Boots of Travel after you have four other big-ticket items and need that slot that the Teleportation Scroll is taking up. This makes you even faster and allows you to travel the map quickly.
Ah, the Divine Rapier. This should be the very, very last item you should get. If the game goes very late, generally there should be a stronger carry on the other side. Divine Rapier provides the +250 damage that can instantly wipe a team fight... or get you wiped in the next team fight should you die. This is definitely the end-all item. Be very careful when purchasing this, for it can either instantly bring about victory... or spell your certain defeat. Later on, Anti-Mage is a very good candidate for a Divine Rapier through tankiness granted by the Heart and Spell Shield, and his naturally high Attack Speed makes full use of the damage.
Situational Items So I've now gone over most of the lategame items Anti-Mage will be looking to get in a normal game. There are, however, situational items that you may get once in a while should the situation demand it.
Pictured: Scythe of Vyse, Necronomicon, Gem of True Sight, Linken's Sphere, Hood of Defiance, Pipe of Insight, Assault Cuirass
Scythe of Vyse, also known as Sheepstick/Hexstick is generally got on other heroes or supports. But should you need an extra disable, Anti-Mage can carry one as well. Blink in, hex somebody, Manta Style, and that unfortunate hero cannot escape and should be dead.
Necronomicon provides two minions with a wide range of useful benefits, such as movespeed aura, attack speed aura, true sight, even more mana burn... And the +STR helps make Anti-Mage more tanky. Consider getting this if you're dealing with invisible heroes such as Rikimaru, Brood Mother, or heroes with Shadow Blade such as Drow Ranger or Sniper. If you don't feel like sinking a lot of gold into this item, just get a Gem of Truesight. Anti-Mage is very good at carrying this gem, but it does take up a valuable item slot.
Linken's Sphere allows you to perhaps survive that critically dooming spell, be it a hex, Mirana's arrow, or even Doom itself. However, this is an expensive item to farm up and if you're going to get it, get it early. You can consider turning your Perseverance into this instead of a Battle Fury, but it will slow down your farm. The plus stats and regeneration are nice as well.
In very extreme cases, your 62.5% reduction through Spell Shield and natural magic resistance isn't enough. Get a Hood of Defiance or its upgrade, the Pipe of Insight for a whopping magic resistance of 74%. Laugh maniacally at nukes.
Assault Cuirass provides you extra armor, Attack Speed, and a minus armor aura to the enemy team. Very good for dealing extra damage to opposing heroes, but Anti-Mage already has nearly maxed attack speed with regular items. If another hero on your team can get this item, it's much better since you already have the attack speed and can get comparable armor through agility-boosting items.
Rejected Items There are some items that Anti-Mage just shouldn't get. Either he gets no benefits from them, or the benefits are far outweighed by the costs. We'll look at a few of them now.
Pictured: Diffusal Blade, Helm of the Dominator, Satanic, Mask of Madness, Maelstrom, Mjollnir
What do these items have in common? They're all orbs. Anti-Mage's Mana Break is already a very powerful orb. These orbs are not needed. Eye of Skadi isn't listed since it is a very powerful orb, as it helps your survivability through more HP and it can slow down the enemy carry's attack speed. If you are adamant about replacing Mana Break in the lategame, get Skadi. Do not get any of the other orbs, for reasons detailed below.
I once saw an Anti-Mage on my team get a Diffusal Blade. All nine other players in the game starting flaming him. He said it was for the purge. What? Just don't get this item. You already have a better mana break, and the purge is trivial: an ally's hexstick or disable will do just the same thing.
Lifesteal through Helm of the Dominator, its big brother Satanic, and its crazy second cousin Mask of Madness should be avoided. If you really want lifesteal, either get or ask somebody to get a Vladimir's Offering. Of the three, Satanic is the least unacceptable since it at least gives you tanking ability and survivability through the +25 STR and the active three second 175% lifesteal.
Maelstrom and Mjollnir randomly send out chain lightning blasts that deal 150/160 magical damage. You do more per shot with Mana Break and illusions (images don't benefit from Maelstrom or Mjollnir). The attack speed increase is negligible since Anti-Mage already has a very high attack speed.
Pictured: Armlet of Mordiggian, Ethereal Blade, Soul Ring, Refresher Orb, Shadow Blade, Blink Dagger, Force Staff
Armlet of Mordiggian provides you a temporary strength boost but drains your health. The attack speed increase is trivial. Anti-Mage doesn't have the HP pool to support this and the buildup doesn't suit him at all.
Anti-Mage only has one nuke: his ultimate. And that's pretty much a one-shot thing. Ethereal Blade can amplify the damage of that and provides nice stats overall, but at the cost of not being able to attack for three seconds? Anti-Mage is a right-click DPS hero. Do not get this item.
Soul Ring sacrifices much-needed HP, and your only real active skill has a five second cooldown. No need. The same line of reasoning holds for the Refresher Orb. It might be tempting to be able to knock off two heroes at once with ultimate, refresh, ultimate, but that is very mana-intensive (375 for refreshing and 550 to use Mana Void twice for a total mana cost of 925). Aside from that, it doesn't offer Anti-Mage anything else really for its exorbitant cost.
Shadow Blade, Blink Dagger, and Force Staff are positional items. With a cheap, five second cooldown Blink, why do you need these items?
Item Build Progression Examples Below I'll list a few sample item build progressions. I won't bother with timings since that the time at which you get specific items is dependent on factors such as your farming skill, warding, the prevalence of enemy ganks, etc. Do remember that these are still guidelines. You don't have to follow the item progression to a T but if you want to, be my guest. They're all certainly feasible.
VIII. Special Tactics Here I will talk about some of the more advanced uses and notes for Anti-Mage's skills, as well as give a more detailed breakdown of what you should do in a typical team fight. I apologize in advance for the lack of screenshot pictures--I'm a bit lazy at this point!
Mana Break
Harass enemy heroes when you get a chance. Burning their mana means extra damage for them and a reduced ability to cast spells. Even if you trade hits early on, you have restoratives and will be purchasing a Ring of Health. Just be careful not to jump into too many enemies at once. Against melee heroes you should have a really easy time.
When farming in the lane, remember that after Mana Break is skilled it becomes much easier to last hit the ranged creep, since it has a mana pool. Remember though that this doesn't work on allied creep.
Similarly, when farming the jungle targeting a neutral creep with a mana pool means you can do more damage to it. Satyr camps are your best friends, since all four creeps spawned have a mana pool. However, it's a trade off: generally the creep in a camp with a mana pool is the stronger/strongest one, so it might be faster to take out the smaller creep first.
After purchasing Battle Fury, definitely hit the creep with a mana pool. The extra damage through feedback hits the other creep as well.
Manta illusions do full mana burn. Sometimes in team fights you can send your illusions to harass an enemy support, forcing them to run around to avoid losing mana instead of casting spells.
Mana Break does not work on magic immune units. So if you're trying to burn the mana off a unit with BKB, it doesn't do anything for the duration of the BKB avatar.
Blink
You can only blink to territory previously explored by your team. Make sure in your idle/transit time to cover potential paths you might want to blink to. This includes areas in the border trees. Blinking there can sometimes save your life when the other team can't follow!
Know your Blink range. If you try to Blink more than your allotted maximum range, you'll only go 4/5s of the distance instead. This seems trivial since that's at most 230 units, but when you're being chased by five enemy heroes that can make or break you!
There is a minimum range on Blink. While this usually isn't a problem, keep that in mind if you're trying to make "micro jumps" in order to avoid enemy projectiles while still staying in the same general area.
Speaking of dodging projectiles, you can use Blink to dodge certain enemy stuns. This takes timing and practice though, and the .33 second delay on Blink can often get you killed early on. No matter how good you become at blink-dodging, don't become overconfident. Best to not have a stun thrown at you whenever possible.
When chasing another hero with Blink or a Blink-like spell (such as Morphling's Waveform or Mirana's Leap), don't jump the gun and Blink too early. Wait for them to use their spell, and follow them. Anti-Mage has the shortest Blink cooldown in the game, and combined with Mana Break and dogged persistence you can bring down an enemy hero with good prediction.
Another thing about chasing: whenever possible blink in front of a fleeing hero. This allows you to get a few more hits in while they run around you.
Spell Shield
While you want to mitigate damage done to you, remember that you take less damage from spells than your teammates do. If you are relatively healthy in terms of HP, bait some nukes out to save a fleeing teammate.
Similarly, early- to mid-game you can act as some sort of bait if you have high levels of Spell Shield. Have your teammates stay back in the shadows, and have them jump when enemy heroes try to instantly kill you with massive amounts of nukes. After the enemy spells go on cooldown, your team should be able to clean up. Don't die in the process!
Mana Void
There are two trains of thought: Mana Void has a short cooldown (60 seconds), so use it to get isolated kills quite liberally. Besides this, Blink, and Manta Style, Anti-Mage doesn't use much mana for anything else.
In team fights, be careful about who you use this on. Since it's dependent upon the pure total of missing mana, hitting somebody who's missing 200 mana doesn't do much damage. As I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you burned an enemy's mana or they expended it on spells; Mana Void hurts just the same.
There are two main ways to use Mana Break in team fights. Since you don't have a short enough cooldown on it to use it twice generally, you can either pop it early or later on. As a single target spell, you can easily take out a hero early on with Mana Break and Mana Void. However, keeping it in reserve will make enemies more wary to expend mana on big spells. I generally prefer the early assassination option.
Mana Void has a mini-stun. You can use this to cancel a teleportation scroll or a channeling spell. However, this doesn't go through BKB, so don't bother trying.
Most importantly: Mana Void has an AoE effect. Damage is calculated based on how much mana the primary target is missing, but it deals the same damage to all enemies in a 300 radius circle. This can be very powerful if cast on, say, a Storm Spirit missing most of his mana in the middle of three other enemy heroes.
What to do in Team Fights Unless your team is running a "let's use this super tanky Anti-Mage as bait" strategy, you should not be the first to leap into a team fight. Blinking in may cause your enemies a slight amount of confusion, but after a short bit they will start lobbing all their nukes and disables on you... Which isn't necessarily what you want. Even worse, a more experienced team will just coolly react and take you out with chain stuns before your team can bail you out. In short, you don't initiate. However, after the battle has broken, do blink in. Don't blink in randomly though--blink on top of your target of choice. Anti-Mage excels at taking out supports first, so generally you'll want to blink on one of the enemy supports. They'll be lower-leveled and under-farmed, and as such will be food for you and your Manta illusions. Take them out quickly (using Mana Void if you deem them important enough to the team fight to have to take out early) and move on to the next target. Don't waste time running around though--Blink if the next target is sufficiently far away, and oftentimes they will be since the first support will try to run. Whatever the case is, send your illusions to attack other supports or mana-dependent heroes, just to mess up their positioning and burn a bit of mana. If you find yourself low on health, blink out. Try to predict when dodgeable enemy spells such as Earthshaker's Fissure or Queen of Pain's Sonic Wave will hit you, and blink to dodge. After taking out supports and powerful, mana-dependent spellcasters, go after the enemy carries. Of course, if the enemy carry is dependent on casting spells to deal damage or increase their survivability/mobility, such as Slardar or Night Stalker, drain their mana since they have low mana pools. Don't waste your time taking their health after their mana is depleted though--go kill those supports.
If you are initiated on, assess how severe it is. As long as you aren't hexed, you can break disables with Manta Style. Pop it, and either stand your ground to fight if you feel your team's counter-initiation will win the game, or blink out while leaving your illusions to act as a bit of distraction.
If and when you get the Aegis, you can afford to be more aggressive. Go down swinging--don't give your life up needlessly--and be prepared to fight or flight when the respawn happens. With an Aegis, I generally prefer using Mana Void early, since the team fights can be a bit more extended. You may have a chance to use a second Mana Void in here, so blow it early to kill an important hero (or even a support), and if it comes off cooldown that's just a nice bonus.
IX. Friends, Foes, and Food Lastly, let's talk about some good allies and powerful foes Anti-Mage has, as well as heroes that he absolutely eats for breakfast.
The Friends: Earthshaker, Clockwerk Goblin, Vengeful Spirit, Nature's Prophet
Really, any hero with a stun is Anti-Mage's friend. Since he lacks a disable anybody who can set up a disable on an enemy hero so that Anti-Mage can cut him/her down is an ally. In particular, Earthshaker, Clockwerk Goblin, and Nature's Prophet are extremely good for Anti-Mage. Earthshaker's Fissure blocks off travel, restricting Anti-Mage's prey from running away. Clockwerk and Prophet are even better. Power Cogs and Sprout, respectively, create a ring around enemies, trapping them in. Normally other melee heroes wouldn't be able to hit enemies trapped in Cogs or Sprout, but Anti-Mage can blink in and go to town. Vengeful Spirit gets a special mention since she has a nice stun early on and can swap Anti-Mage out of a team fight if need be... and oftentimes Anti-Mage finds himself in way too deep.
The Foes: Slardar, Doom Bringer, Night Stalker, Sniper, Faceless Void, Spectre, Drow Ranger, Rikimaru, Bloodseeker, Puck, Lion
Slardar, Doom Bringer, and Night Stalker fall into the category of "don't really need that much mana to bring you down and are really tanky due to be being strength heroes." Slardar's Amplify Damage reduces your armor to nil, making physical attacks hurt so much more. Midgame, Night Stalker's Crippling Fear (silence) and Void (slow and nuke) hurts quite a bit, and the silence lasts forever at night. A silenced Anti-Mage is a dead Anti-Mage. He can be chased down and curb stomped to death by five ravenous enemies. Doom Bringer's silence is even worse, considering it's the single most deadly single-target spell. Not only does it silence your Blink, it also silences your items... and even Mana Break. That's right. For the duration of Doom, you are pretty much a fast-attacking melee creep. A Doomed Anti-Mage is pretty much a dead Anti-Mage. Either get a Linken's against Doom or wait till he casts it on somebody else.
Sniper and Faceless Void can outcarry you. Sniper hits you from afar, and doesn't care too much if you blink up on him. He has a Manta of his own, can match you in damage output, and doesn't care if his mana is burned away. Void is even worse. A quarter of the time you can't even hit him due to Backtrack, and his ultimate Chronosphere completely locks you away for five seconds, allowing his team to whack you to pieces. He easily outclasses you by hitting harder, having a permastun through Timelock, and in general better survivability, and is one of the hardest carries in the game. Spectre tanks all your damage, and even though she'll have no mana you'll have no life.
Drow Ranger, Rikimaru, and Bloodseeker are other semi-carries/carries with a built-in silence. Remember, a silenced Anti-Mage is a dead Anti-Mage. None of the three care about getting their mana burned away. Drow will hit harder than you and will have lifesteal. Rikimaru only needs to just get behind you once with a cloud. Bloodseeker hits just as hard or harder than you, and heals by killing your allies. You'll need to either be much tankier or have much higher damage to beat these guys. Otherwise it comes down to whose team supports the carry better.
Rounding out the foes list, Puck and Lion can pop out of nowhere with Blink daggers, silence you, hex you, and generally just set it up so that their team can nuke you to death. Not a fun prospect, though you become less afraid of them as the game draws later.
The Food: Vengeful Spirit, Venomancer, Chen, Zeus, Lina, Crystal Maiden, Shadow Priest, Pugna, Necrolyte, Witch Doctor, Ancient Apparition
These listed heroes have something in common: with the exceptions of Vengeful Spirit and Venomancer, the rest are Intelligence-based heroes that rely on their spells to do damage or help their teammates. Vengeful Spirit and Venomancer also rely on spells as well. None of them are tanky. Anti-Mage simply rips them to pieces. Blink, Manta, a few hits, and Mana Void will kill any of them, and because the main source of damage comes from spells, they barely tickle a farmed Anti-Mage. Of course, their stuns can still be dangerous... Just because they're food doesn't mean they can't fight back.
Final Words If you managed to read this whole thing, there's something wrong with you. But if you did do so, I thank you. Hopefully this guide provided some insight into the workings of Anti-Mage, and more generally how one should approach a hero when starting to play DotA. Once again, suggestions and feedback comments (whether positive or negative) are welcome, and if you have questions I'll try to answer them.
And now to the part people actually care about.
Interested in getting access to the DotA2 beta?
Bumblebee, the generous man with the keys, is looking to share the happiness! For a chance to get into the DotA 2 beta, simply write a short blurb about your favorite hero, and the item build / skill build you generally go for. For bonus points, talk about a humorous/memorable game you played with said hero. Deadline is November 4th, 4:12 (48 hours after this was originally posted) KST.
Edit: Contest is now over! Sorry this is a bit late but congratulations to EchelonTee and SilentchilL! You both win a nice shiny Beta Key courtesy of Bumblebee, and I hope you enjoy your escapades in DotA 2. There were many great posts, so this was definitely a hard choice to make, but there will be more key giveaways in the future so keep an eye out for any future DotA blogs by either Bumblebee or myself.
For my skill build: blink, scream, scream, shadow strike, scream, sonic wave, then max scream and mix up blink and shadow strike. My starting items are one tango, one salve, two branches, and two mantles of intelligence. This gives me great regen to stay in lane and good last hit potential.
I like to play QOP solo mid. As the game goes on, I get a bottle with the first 600 gold, then boots, and then I start roaming around for kills. QOP is one of the most mobile gankers in the whole game, and has some of the strongest burst potential as well. Not calling mia on QOP can lead to some disastrous consequences. A simple combo of blink in/shadow strike/ult/scream is usually enough to take out an enemy hero, or even two if they are not prepared. As the game progresses, she becomes one of the strongest intelligence teamfighters there is, with sonic wave and scream doing massive amounts of damage and staying out of range of enemy heroes with her blink. As the gold ramps up, one of my favorite key items for QOP is linkens. It provides her with much needed regen and stats as she is extremely squishy, and making her even more elusive and unkillable. After that, sheepstick is usually the next item and then a skadi if the game goes on that long. With her very large agility gain per level, QOP can easily be built as a semi carry with the right items. I do not suggest getting aghanim's unless you have had an extremely good early game, it scales fairly poorly as the game goes on. Being the glass cannon that she is, QOP has a fairly high skill cap and is one of the more difficult heroes to master. With the right experience, she can be one of the most feared gankers and teamfighters in the game.
Dude, you just beat the living hell out of every guide I've ever seen written. For any hero. Ever. Quite an impressive read, glad I read the whole thing! AM is definitely my favourite carry in DotA, Void is a close second.
But my favourite hero? Definitely Storm Spirit. Max Overload first, then Electric Vortex. Then get Dagon 5 as quickly as you possibly can. At that point you can just run around zapping people to death. So much fun to be had ^.^ Of course, this only really works in pubs
Flame wheel, for anti-mage's ult you said it was blink again by the way.
So my favorite hero would have to be rhasta. One of the funniest things that ever happened while I was playing was when I trapped vengeful spirit in the wards and she swapped with pudge. Fatty trying to get out of ward trap, along with the user on vent, yelling "FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU". greaaaat times.
Depends who i have laning with for skill build, if I'm laning with juggernaut, then both cc's still lvl 7, then I go for nuke.
I really don't know what my favourite hero is... It often changes based on what I'm doing. Though probably my favourite hero atm is probably beastmaster. Skill build I just max axes/call, maxing axes and grabbing ulti whenever and then getting the passive after. Item is bottle, if I'm mid grab boots, go straight for vanguard if farm is good or upgrade boots, most likely to treads if farm isn't thaaat good. I may or may not get a portal key and depending on their team I mostly go tanky items unless they have an invis like riki or something and I'll probably get a necrobook...
Amazing guide! Magebane is one of my favorite carries to play, carry through tanking like a boss. I universally agree with the written guide. Magic Wand is a must, almost no reason not to pick up this item on any hero.
Bumblebee is a gentleman and a scholar. Props to that man.
isn't the troll build sufficient for any AM game? Troll it up with some good quality headphones and right click on heroes and profit!
seriously tho, why write a guide for this guy, you shouldn't be encouraging people to pick him. Just played a game where i picked drow, we had a night stalker, no good stuns, and the 5th pick was an AM. we played against a good balanced team and got raped even tho me and the AM got decent farm. AM is the scourge of dota2 atm, people see him rape in pro games and are like I CAN DO THAT TOO and pick him even tho he doesn't suit the team at all.
All i can ask is, if you DO pick AM, pick him in good situations (like described in the OP) or pick him first so the rest of us can make up for your selfishness
OH MY GOD! This is sooo much better than 99% guides on playdota.Huge props man.Short blurb huh?Alrighty then....
Stay awhile and listen, there once was a blondie, his powers were were holy, he had a pal who was a centaur, they would partake in every brawl, some say they once fought a troll.
The troll was swift and cunning, but the centaur's spell was STUNNING, and with the blondie healing, the troll was sent back running. But it wasn't the last they saw of him, he came back with the whole team.
Who do you think you are,troll? It's me who is iNcontroL! Suddenly we weren't alone, there was a strange clinking of bone, when troll realized he was close to death, Bone Clinkz popped out of stealth.
Only a few arrows did he need, to cause the troll to severely bleed, Sometimes being swift doesn't mean you're a hard prey, when you're enemy is blond and gay, but they didn't manage to kill the troll, for he was the Troll Warlord.
my favorite hero from dota is probably earthshaker, because his fissure is so good and he punishes teams that clump up. If we're massively ahead an I feel like trolling, I can go Lothar's and buriza and do massive crits :D
I used to love Akasha> Used to go for some rush core i forget the name of for first items...goologs rush core maybe? Quite damned strong of a hero if you get a good farm midgame, picking up luxuries and stuff. erley late game can be so ezpz, I remember a few occasions where i blinked in and dropped ult during late game team battles and it was just unfair ^.^
Wow this guide is of utmost highest quality, kudos to you sir.
My favorite hero is silencer. It varies depending on the lane, but against high manacost heroes I usually go: Curse - Glaives - Curse- Last Word - Curse - Ult - Max Last word - ult - Glaives - ult - stats
I get one level in glaives early because then I can orbwalk and hit the enemy hero without dragging creeps to me. My usual item build is usually mantle salve tango then branches/mantle/courier/wards depending on the situation. My first item is usually force staff, for the invaluable utility and escape mechanism it provides to silencer, who really needs it. I usually play support silencer, so I spend a ton of money getting wards, and I might also buy a euls or guinsoo if i have the money. If im going carry, I try to build an orchids and guinsoo. This strategy works pretty well for me in dotacash, but I usually encounter problems when confronting heroes with blink. Silencer's lack of escape makes him very very easy to gank.
EDIT: The funniest game I played had me multikill a sven so much that he didnt have the mana to cast spells. Lol
Start off with double sobi and double regen ring, into phaseboots and reaver. get heart (or vanguards after the many heart nerfs ) asap and then make an orchids and hood. Once thats done, who needs phase shift, pretty much anything that can catch u u can kill, like a friendly blinking anti mage, and anything that can kill u, like niax, needs a friend else u can get away quite nicely ;D
Also, since you;re a support hero with a great initiation combo, this lets you live beyond the initial orb in, coil waning rift combo, and lets u orb out/after ppl .
I actually ignore phase shift in the beginning for the early stats HP/MP regen coz my con was never really that good to pull off the epic phase shift dodges that 0.25 seconds allow for. I go orb and stats pretty much until lvl 8, with coil as the exception, and then get waning rift and max out stats b4 shift. If i'm laning mid (in the level of games i played) i also managed to get a double kill mid at lvl 6 (if they were 2 there ofc) and i was solo. Else just try to stay alive and support as much as possible after heart is finished.
Um... Fun game, lets go with my mate and I were playing some of the better dota players on our war 3 server in a 2v2. I randomed Potm, and he randomed puck. Which we had both been playing pretty much exclusively for a while. The other two got some heroes they were pretty confident in. One swap later, I think we won in like 15 minutes :D :D :D. They never knew what hit them
I would cheat at the contest and just copy-paste the guide to end all guides but it would be a terrible lie
Favorite hero is Clinkz, easy. Typically open stat items into a few wraith bands, treads, manta/orchid into the inevitable butterfly. I really like stat items in general on Clinkz as his skills naturally give him insane damage output, and he can't use orbs. Manta is core because max movespeed with windwalk is awesome. I like to run him with a ranged stun bro top/bot, for the close shop and because 2v2 lane is more fun than 1v1lane.
My most memorable Clinkz game was a bnet pub game some years back, going 8-0-12 and still losing in 25 minutes because it was a 4v5 and I was still new to DotA. I was so proud of that kdr though
i read the guide, i agree with almost everything except armlet being rejected
i think armlet is a good situational item, when activated, it gives more hp than vanguard, and you get damage and attack speed you also get hp regen and armor
its a cheap tanky dps item that can be gotten early
On November 02 2011 04:58 saltywet wrote: i read the guide, i agree with almost everything except armlet being rejected
i think armlet is a good situational item, when activated, it gives more hp than vanguard, and you get damage and attack speed you also get hp regen and armor
its a cheap tanky dps item that can be gotten early
armlet is an excelent item, just not on antimage, leave it for the strenght heros, also delays his core and +dmg and +attack speed doesnt work on illusions
I really like playing a lot of heroes, but if I had to choose, it would be Phantom Lancer - because I had a lot of fun/memorable moments with him. Item builds depend on farm, but if it was good, one of my favourite was rushing mock. Later I'd get manta and usualy bf/dmg/sh. I really liked playing him because it's simply hilarious traping enemys heroes with illusions in small and narrow paths. I remember one time trapping a hero in that way near the bottom sentinel tower in that small passage, and watching him slowly fall to creeps+illusions.
Interesting task you have presented, I played DOTA religiously for years, it was just so much fun back in the day. I enjoyed it so much I eventually opted to give HoN a shot over LoL, due to the similar heroes and mechanics. Something just didn't feel right however, something about the gameplay feel, just couldn't put my finger on it. After a year, I didn't have the urge to play it anymore I just like DOTA way more (bias/nostalgia? not sure, probably not).
"short blurb about your favorite hero, and the item build / skill build you generally go for. For bonus points, talk about a humorous/memorable game you played with said hero..."
Wow this is tough, there were so many heroes I enjoyed in all kinds of situations, but if I had to choose one it would have to be stumbling on Spectre, or trying him out for the first time. As I don't remember which patch it was from I can remember how his mechanics worked at the time (also in combination with certain items hehe). Specifically he could still "evade" attacks with this 3rd skill, and it worked AMAZING with Butterfly in the endgame. Absolutely balls-hilarious tanking an entire team, of course the nerfs followed, but hey "humorous/memorable game right."
Starting Build: Stout Shield, IronwoodBranch x3, HPot x1, Tango x1. Skill Build: 1. Dagger & Dispersion maxed first depending on situation 2. Ultimate immediately when available 3. Desolate & Stats follow the above
Core Items: Vanguard (wow, Spectre turned into such a beast after this) Treads Diffusal Yasha (maybe)
If you get to Super-Late with both teams still active, things get hilarious real fast. After many nerfs Spectre late-game pwnage has been reduced a lot, but he's still a fun hero.
On November 02 2011 05:03 Horse...falcon wrote: Anybody know which (non-implemented heroes) are good against him? He's tearing up the beta right now.
Magina is a pretty hard hero to counter with just one hero. You need to play a different way against him. delay his early game farm, have good disables to gank him mid game and have a good carrier on your team as well. It depends a lot more on your team then on yourself alone. But I guess if you want a carrier that beats magina late game, I would tell you Phanton lancer.
haha flamewheel, you should've posted this yesterday while the site was still on old layout. Your post would appear a lot longer, therefore a lot more epic
Honestly as someone who doesn't really play these games (other than 3 hours of lol once), I have to say that having to know this much about potentially 100+ heroes is quite overwhelming.
But I think Phase Boots is a way superior choice than Power Treads. With Phase Boots and Yasha, Anti-Mage has a gigantic movespeed. This speed allows you to chase anyone in the battle, giving you the option of saving the Blink for escape purposes. Phase Boots allows more flexibility for Magina than Power Treads. It's not correct to say that Phase Boots doesn't add survivability, because it's speed boost can be used to run away. Survivability is more than simply having HP.
On November 02 2011 05:15 shostakovich wrote: Nice guide.
But I think Phase Boots is a way superior choice than Power Treads. With Phase Boots and Yasha, Anti-Mage has a gigantic movespeed. This speed allows you to chase anyone in the battle, giving you the option of saving the Blink for escape purposes. Phase Boots allows more flexibility for Magina than Power Treads. It's not correct to say that Phase Boots doesn't add survivability, because it's speed boost can be used to run away. Survivability is more than simply having HP.
AM already has pretty much the best mobility in the game with blink, phase boots won't save you when you are stunned, treads hp will, and that is not to underestimate the Attack speed you get from it.
On November 02 2011 05:11 Talin wrote: Honestly as someone who doesn't really play these games (other than 3 hours of lol once), I have to say that having to know this much about potentially 100+ heroes is quite overwhelming.
Totally agree, but at least we've got it written down for one of them, right? Awesome blog, FW.
On November 02 2011 05:03 Horse...falcon wrote: Anybody know which (non-implemented heroes) are good against him? He's tearing up the beta right now.
Heroes that can control the mid-game are excellent against Magina, because he needs space to farm. So, against him, you want to have good map-control and map-dominance on the mid-game. Magina is really fragile early in the game, and heroes that can control the map and the fights are strong against him.
He's naturally tearing everyone in the beta beucase most people allows him to freefarm all the time.
Non implemented heroes that are good against him... Shadow Demon. But it's more about having a plan to counter him than having a single hero.
My favorite hero is Furion. I always enter farm mode until the 50 minute mark when I have manta MKB Bfly and MoM then I finally enter the team battles and pwn it up. However, the game is usually over by then because my team will have lost because of me, but the game isn't over it will be soon. I also like going Vengeful Spirit and only getting support / consumable items and roaming. IMO its the most fun because it's nonstop action.
On November 02 2011 05:15 shostakovich wrote: Nice guide.
But I think Phase Boots is a way superior choice than Power Treads. With Phase Boots and Yasha, Anti-Mage has a gigantic movespeed. This speed allows you to chase anyone in the battle, giving you the option of saving the Blink for escape purposes. Phase Boots allows more flexibility for Magina than Power Treads. It's not correct to say that Phase Boots doesn't add survivability, because it's speed boost can be used to run away. Survivability is more than simply having HP.
AM already has pretty much the best mobility in the game with blink, phase boots won't save you when you are stunned, treads hp will, and that is not to underestimate the Attack speed you get from it.
So, you use Blink to chase someone, then suddenly you're surrounded by enemies and you don't have Blink to escape. Power Treads won't also save you when you're stunned. Flexibility saves.
I'm really into quirky heroes, and the quirkiest by far is the good old Goblin Techies.
With Techies, I could wreak utter havoc on poor carries trying to farm in the early game; gankers suffered the fear of stepping onto the wrong path and being blown to bits. Later on, an area-of-effect 5 second stun and an almost instant speed 600 damage ultimate is game changing. For such little guys, Goblin Techies was sure a pain in the ass.
My build was: Courier TP Scroll 3x Clarities
Teleport to a lane asap, and set up stacked mines in various areas in the lane that creeps wouldn't walk on but heroes walking alongside would. With the proper baiting, my lane would often be first blood: mines + a nuke = dead hero. Unlike a lot of strategies, mine was lane centered- I wouldn't leave and camp the river to place mines next to the rune for a few minutes because that was just too goddamn predictable. Mines thrive on unpredictability; Techies should hide mines in plain sight.
Spells: Mine Suicide Squad Mine Stasis Trap
Max out Mines then Stasis Trap, while picking up ultimate whenever possible.
If laning against a lack of aoe, I would push the crap out of the lane and try to get the first tower asap, since Mines do crazy amounts of damage to towers.
I never really liked stealing runes from other heroes on my team, since the HP regen and rune itself was often wasted on techies, so I would go, based on how much gold I had, for the pieces of Orchid Malevolence. Other than boots, Techies only needs mana regen to be effective. I preferred going straight Orchid over getting a mana ring (now mana boots? ) because since Techies has such a high natural regen, stacking more on was the most effective thing to do. In addition, Orchid gives Techies a vital silence and a bit of DPS that shouldn't be neglected.
I would then go for Agahnims, because it does crazy things to Techies DPS. With sufficient mana, Techies is perhaps the best pusher/defender in the game. Eul's and Blink Dagger are always fun things to get, but not entirely necessary.
My favorite memory with Techies was when a team went for a 4 man gank at lvl 1 on my lane, and half of them instantly died to mines. BOOOM
My favorite hero is definitely Kunkka because of his insane splash. It's so much fun going mid in a pub, just farming like crazy for a period of time, and then running around with Lothar's and later Buriza 1 hit killing squishy people.
I usually go for: Fast Vanguard, sometimes I wait with it if I feel I can get away without it Standard Boots before completing Vanguard Phase Boots after Lothar's Start building Buriza Then it's all situational.
My favorite moment has to be one hit killing 4 people at the same time with the Kunkka splash when I had Phase Boots, Vanguard, Lothar's, Buriza and two Divine Rapiers. I almost lost us the game when a fat Rikkimaru killed me at Ancients (That's what you get for wandering around alone in late game with a Rikki on their team...), fortunately for me he didn't see the Divine Rapier drop, which made me quickly buy back and go pick it up.
I really like Keeper of the Light. I prefer to build him as an early game pusher into classic support, focusing on Chakra magic first for nearly endless mana, into illuminate to flatten creep waves. If I’m farming well I’ll usually works towards a quick boots of travel to keep pressure on multiple lanes at once. As the game progresses (and hopefully a lane or two gets pushed in), I’ll try and fill any support holes by working towards, as the situation merits, a shiva’s, pipe, or sheep stick.
A friend of mine and I used to play a lot of 2v2 games. I remember one game where he was Tiny and I was KotL, and he ended up dropping. When the two of them tried to gank me, I was able to ulti, drop an illuminate, and recall and take control of him. The ball, and stun/toss hit the two of them at pretty much the same time for a double kill. I ended up winning by repeating the strategy several more times—they never seemed to learn.
A couple typos: The skillset says blink twice instead of Mana Void.
"Anti-Mage can also functional quite well as a semi-carry/ganker" This should probably say "function quite well".
Great guide. I would disagree slightly with your argument for Vanguard over PMS, as u say, blocking 20 out of 45 damage is nice, but 20 out of 150 is trivial. However the same is true to only a slightly lesser extent for the average of Vanguard, 28; blocking 28 out of 150 is trivial as well. That said, they are both good choices, but you give Vanguard more of an edge than I would. PMS is also finished a lot sooner than Vanguard, giving you better protection from harassment possibly and probably allowing you to farm (very) slightly better (the balance swings to Vanguard's side pretty hard when the RoH is purchased though, I would imagine). If you need the additional health of the Vanguard early on then that is probably the better choice, but if u feel u can get away without it I think PMS is superior.
My favourite hero is Ishkafel, the Dark Seer. His vacuum and shell abilities make it interesting to play him, always thinking of new or better ways to optimally use the combo. I also enjoy jungling and his shell makes him superb for this role.
1. Shell 2. Vacuum 3. Shell then max Vacuum (unless jungling) followed by Shell, sneaking in a point in Haste sometime before level 9 depending on game. The ultimate was only really useful for big team battles and pushes so I took it after the other 3 skills. (I think i heard something about the ultimate being buffed at some point, but I am not sure about it, and either way, this was after I switched to HoN (reconnect etc... imo DotA is better, though) and later SC2.)
Playing with one of my friends (I made while playing DotA ), we would often have fun with me playing Dark Seer and him playing Puck. Vacuum -> Puck unleashes his AoE hell. Good times and triple triple-kills were had... hehe. Also invisibility runes/Lothar's (in games that were basically won from the get-go) in conjunction with Shell made for some fun kills.
P.S. I haven't played since 6.56ish so my thoughts may be outdated!
Awesome guide for Anti-mage can't wait to see what other guides you can come up with.
@Bumblebee My favorite hero by far has always and will be Crystal Maiden. With CM I always max out aura first and then alternate between nova and frostbite so in theory it goes: Frostbite - Nova - Aura - Aura - Aura - Ult - Aura - Frostbite - Nova etc. For items, after the starting set I always buy wards and counter wards once the Chicken is upgraded then in between purchasing wards because of cooldowns I will start working for Power Treads and then work for 1-2 Bracers for more health. After that I will usually get a Magic Wand and then start saving for BKB/Blink Dagger even though by that time I shouldn't really have enough money because as CM you should always be buying wards and counter wards. Funny Story: I was playing CM and I was on Sentinel side, I was counter warding the Vengeful Spirit on the other team as he was counter warding me, we end up meeting each other at top rune and place the wards and just pull a double retreat and not long later he came back with PotM and killed my wards and counter wards.
For various reasons, one of my favorite heroes is ES.
Waaaay back in the day of pub -em stomps, he made the games interesting. Ever seen an ES get battlefury and no dagger? We did it back then! Fissure/passive/fissure/enchant totem/fissure/ult .... was the obvious skillbuild. In a game where you're one of five friends just eating people alive, it was your duty to do your best to set up team fights. ...And then kill your teammates when you could .
ES/Tiny was hilarious. Fountain camping when you know the game is over? Yell over vent to your buddy to throw a teammate into the fountain while you fissure them in. GG.
He started to lose his appeal to me when less people started playing with my group and when the average skill level of pubs went up (TDA and what not), but he's still good for a laugh. I could probably write stories like this for any hero in the game (minus the last two or three recently added I guess). Some of my best memories were with this game, haha.
It's pretty hard to pick one hero I mean, Drow was the first hero I ever used and I love her character model and the idea of the character but in practice I hate her, so I never play her anymore. I'd say Sand King is my favorite right now, nothing feels as good as getting a perfect epicenter on 4-5 heroes while burrow striking 2-3 of them, and popping a blade mail and ruining someones day.
I have two particular games of memory, one of them where I was against a Huskar, Storm Spirit, and three other auto-attack heavy heroes (can't remember them right now), and I popped my blade mail after ulti'ing in and managed to get a quad kill.
The second game I remember very well was we were getting pressured all game long, finally they get to our mid level 3 tower where I hide behind the tree at the edge of the wall, cast my ulti and then the opposing VS swaps me RIGHT INTO THE MIDDLE of the enemies where I proceeded to ulti all 5, and burrow strike all 4 of them lol. Our team got the 5-0 and ended up making a sick sick hour long comeback.
On November 02 2011 05:03 Horse...falcon wrote: Anybody know which (non-implemented heroes) are good against him? He's tearing up the beta right now.
Syllabear. Sylla can carry on even level against him in most situations. Sylla is also a pusher. If your AM team can't hold 4v5 against the push then AM is standing there and getting no farm or levels over sylla, making AM lacklustre.
Most push lineups punish AM, well that or taking a super hard carry like mortred and playing defensively until late game.
My favorite hero is Earthshaker. I feel so good when I use his combo, it's actually really relaxing for me! The skill build that I like is Fissure, Aftershock and then alternating between Enchant Totem with Fissure till max. Upgrade Echo Slam at lvl 6,11 and 16. Depending on the situation, I can choose between getting bonus stats or upgrading enchat totem after max Fissure and Aftershock. The itens that I like to buy for Earthshake are Dagger, Force Staff, Ghost Scepter, Arcane boots and Buriza (just for fun xD).
I can't remember any funny stories that happened to me right now, but I remember seeing ComeWithMe using his ulti before blink dagger when they got eliminated in The International. That was hillarious and sad at the same time...
tldr, id rather use the chainlightning weapon and go with a mass on proc high as ms build, unless i completely forgot that chainlighting is an orb effect? Really long guide. haha
my favorite hero is huskar, so much fun <3 I normally build 1 in burning spear, then max berserker's blood. At level 4 I take 1 level of inner vitality, normally in lane this is about when my regen runs out. I go straight towards armlett, buying the 950 item from the side shop as my first item, then picking up boots. Now is a good time to roam, or work towards more of my armlett. Once huskar has armlett, he is sooo good, gank a hero, and if someone else shows up to counter gank, you can oftentimes gank them as well :D. I remember one game I was plating huskar, and a friend was skeleton king (his first game :D). I did such a good job harassing the enemy in lane, that he thought he was just naturally good at dota, because he got plenty of farm and did well in the overall game. Then later he told me that I made him overconfident in his dota abilities XD.
Thank you very much for this guide. I hope TL will get it's own Guide section with guides made by TL members.
My favorite hero is Pandaren Brewmaster. I go for: -Thunderclap -Drunken Haze -Thunderclap -Stats -Thunderclap -Ulti (Afterwards: ulti > thunderclap > Drunken Brawler > Drunken Haze
My Midgame Items are usually: -Magick Stick -Ring of Basillus -Boots of speed -blink dagger
Afterwards I buy either Boots of Travel or Phase Boots and finish my build with Aghanims
-Mangix is a very versatile hero and performs superb in Teamfights due to his ulti (Lots of crowd control). -Blink makes him a very dangerous ganker. -His Thunderclap does alot of damage and, which allows him to farm and gank with it efficiently. -With his Drunken Haze + Drunken Brawler + Thunderclap he becomes one of the best anticarrys ingame and very useful lategame
Nice guide. Anti-mage used to be a "pub hero" for his lack of farming abilities and early game weakness, but because of the buff to spell shield and the popularity of rushing battlefury (and overall increase in farming skills from players) he is one of the top carries now in the pro scene.
I don't have a favorite hero per say...but I do have an absolute favorite lane combination that can only be pulled off by the manliest of men. DARK SEER + TECHIES! I remember that my roommate ran up to me after watching a pro game where this epic combo was pulled off, and told me "WE HAVE TO DO THIS...ITS BRILLIANT." So we jumped into the game and the results were most satisfying. Here is the skill build for both heroes:
Dark Seer: Vacuum, Surge, Vacuum, Surge, Vacuum, Stats, Vacuum, (from here you play it by ear, I tend to get Surge to lvl 3 and max ion shell before getting my ultimate)
Techies: Mines, Suicide, Suicide (or leave suicide at lvl1 if your lane is squishy heroes), Mines, Mines, Remote, Mines, (from here max stasis and get remote levels when you can).
Skill build reasoning: The goal of this build is to go for a quick lvl 2 first blood with surge + Vacuum + suicide. Very few heroes can survive this combination and often you can get a double kill with a good vacuum. The next goal is complete and utter lane control. Techies will have mines placed strategically around where Dark Seer can easily vacuum heroes onto them. If the mines fail to kill, surge+suicide can finish the job easily. You skip ion shell because you are not relying on it to do damage. You will be using the strength of early game mines/suicide + vacuum to gain lane control and farm safely.
Starting Items: Dark Seer: Stout Shield, 2 sets of tangoes and extra cash goes to gg branches Techies: 6 clarity potions, rest into branches
Reasoning: Dark Seer should be going for a vanguard early and the Stout Shield will help for tanking (Dark Seer already has high starting damage so he doesn't need a boost to last hitting from an axe or mantles of int). Techies only needs mana regeneration (since he will be relying on surge to make suicide kills kekeke).
Item Builds: Honestly whatever the fuck you want. On dark seer I tend to go Van-Hood into travel. Then I focus on w.e. the team needs, Radiance (dps), Sheep Stick (disable), Necro Book (true sight), Force Staff (fun times). On techies mana regeneration is key, so any int item is good, euls and sheep stick, etc. The scepter upgrade on remote mines is also quite good.
Pulled off correctly not only is this strategy hilarious, but also very effective in completely shutting down an opponent's lane. It is also very gank proof as long as your techies position mines in key baiting spots.
Notable Game: I remember we were against a tri-lane once and got a triple kill first blood with 2 mines and a surge suicide. So satisfying. Game pretty much went downhill for our opponents after that.
All this talk of Dota 2 is getting me really nostalgic for the good old Bnet Dota 1 days... I played the original for 2-3 years with my friends back at the height of WC3. Though in current Dota games (LoL, HoN) I traditionally play supports, my favorite Dota hero has got to be Strygwyr, the Bloodseeker.
Back when me and my friends first started playing, we didn't have any idea about optimal builds, inherent synergies, team compositions, nothing. We didn't know about the guides and forums that existed on the internet; we just played. So when we started to flesh out heroes that we would like, anything that was flashy or cool immediately caught our eyes. And for me, Bloodseeker fit the bill. I was a big WC3 fan, and when I played WC3 my main race was Orc and I loved going mass Taurens+Shamans for the bloodlust, so Bloodseeker's model, a cool, decked out shaman was neat. I never had really noticed that the shaman model is wearing CLAWS, which Bloodseeker puts to good use. Also, rupture seemed sooooo strong back then, definitely an awesome ulti for a newbie to use.
Anyways, my favorite item build for Bloodseeker is sort of an irrational build called the "Mitch Build" by our friends, after our friend Mitchell, who always went this build on every hero he played, at least when he was playing just for funsies. He was the best player of us all, able to play at a semi-competitive level, and he had the strong belief that hero control and lane management are much more important than item build. Essentially, the build involves building 4 starter items (bracer, wraith band, or null talisman), boots, then rushing straight for a secret shop item (eaglehorn, reaver, or mystic staff). Essentially, going for pure stats, generally not buying ANY regen consumables or other items. When it works, you feel like a boss, and you dish out sooo much damage.
For Bloodseeker, I start with 3 Circlets of Nobility, use courier to finish Wraith bands / ferry over healing salve if I absolutely need it, and at the midgame with a few kills and decent farm, I end up with Power Treads, 3 Wraith Bands, an Eaglehorn, and a tele scroll. As the game progresses, I upgrade Eaglehorn to Butterfly, then during the late game replace the Wraith Bands with appropriate carry items like Buriza, HoT, Manta Style, or whatever. Skill build is pretty standard, 1 on Blood Rage >> 1 on Strygwyr's Thirst >> max Blood Bath >> max Thirst >> max stats >> max Rage last, getting rupture whenever possible.
My most memorable game with Bloodseeker was when we played a 4v4 inhouse that included Mitch and some of his friends, who, though not super high level, were all very skilled players who regularly played in Clan PUGs. The lane setup was 2-1-1, with me on the Scourge side solo bot vs. Moon Rider. People on my team complained (raged at me) that I was getting one of the solos when I was the scrub, but I calmly told them that I would handle it. And it was, quite simply, the best game of Bloodseeker I had ever played.
The utter simplicty of a level 1 Bloodrage is amazing; a DoT and Silence rolled into an elegant package. The first few levels passed without incident, though the Moon Rider was better at last hitting than me and was gaining a slight edge. At level 6, as my creep wave was being mowed down by Moon Rider's bounce, he suddenly charged forward, as though to ulti me when my creeps were not around to shield me. To which I respond by calmly silencing him, then rupturing him. Seeing Moon Rider ride up to right next to me and prepare to cast and my instant reaction to silence him was such a great feeling. With the long silence preventing any spells and my superior stats thanks to my mass statboosting strat, I was able to take him out and eventually win lane.
Later in the game, Moon Rider was jungling in Legion forest with his headress, and I was passing through river when Thirst kicked in, revealing him as his hp just lowered enough from fighting golems at the creep camp near the Legion ramp to the rune. I run up to him with my increased speed, rupture him, and smack him down as he ultis me in desparation. Once again, thanks to Str treads+wraith bands I survive. Of course, if I had silenced him first it wouldn't have been close, but I was a newbie who thought that I could kill him before he could react :p
We won that game with me heavily out-carrying Luna; I don't remember my stats but it was something like 10 / 2 / 8, and I felt really good that I was able to compete with these players who should be able to wipe the floor with me. All in all, abusing Bloodseeker's strong autoattacking abilities with a rushed Butterfly with wraith bands is just plain fun. These days, I would probably go with a more optimal build (shield, rush diffusal/manta), but whenever I'm feeling like just having a good time, I go the Mitch Build.
Hmm it is hard to pick a single favourite hero. Currently I play phoenix the most and enjoy it. Overall Sand King is probably my pick, I've been playing that hero on and off for several years now and it has stayed current and useful throughout that entire time.
I recall when they did the change to sand storm how I was the first person in my clan to argue for a build using sand storm over stats. Since that time I have been mostly going stun (occasionally sand storm if I'm solo or I miss-click), ss, stun, ss, stun, ulti, stun, ss, ss. After both stun and sand storm are maxed I usually start mixing it up depending on the game (occasionally I don't max ss directly, yet that is a rare case), sometimes stats are needed if I got lousy farm and risk dying, other times we need that little extra push/dmg that caustic causes.
Items now a days tend to depend on farm, if it looks like I can get good farm and don't have to gank then I'll rush for blink dagger, if it looks like decent farm then I usually take arcane boots and gank a bit with it in mid game. If it looks like lousy farm I'll take boots and bottle. The core item on SK is blink dagger, using ulti with shift blink to get it off without getting interrupted. Even in teams with enough disable to allow you to use the ulti in point blank range (thus not losing one tick of it on the blink) blink dagger is a core item for ganking/chasing/escaping.
After the blink and whatever mana regenerating item the game gave me I'll mix up items heavily depending on the game. From Eul for disable/escape to heart for survivability or maybe a Shiva for the armor and slow. If I can't farm due to having 2 carries or something like that I'll just fill up with bracers/wards and stay at those items for most of the game instead of trying to farm up more things.
I personally prefer avoiding BKB as an item since if you have blink you don't need it, it is actually good if they stun you in a team fight as long as you got off the ulti and your stun, means somebody else gets some space. In most pub games sand storm is enough anyhow.
As for a fun game, that was a game with blink and Eul. It wasn't possible to die, sand storm, eul, stun out and then blink soon after. Three heroes chasing was of no import since they couldn't keep up. It was possible to jungle opponent jungle since they simply couldn't get the kill with the abilities they had. They didn't have any long enough ranged stun to stop the combo from starting, then unless they were lucky on the exact timing vs the stun away after eul there was no way to get killed.
On November 02 2011 05:51 Zirith wrote: tldr, id rather use the chainlightning weapon and go with a mass on proc high as ms build, unless i completely forgot that chainlighting is an orb effect? Really long guide. haha
There is also a minimum time between procs for the lightning in DotA. Which means it doesn't help as much as many other items does in late game.
Kunkka X's Pudge back... Pudge throws a Hook at Kunkka... Tiny blinks next to Kunkka and uses toss... Pudge's hook hits Tiny instead of Kunkka... Tiny's Toss throws FV back into Pudge
Only way that would've been better is if FV used Chronosphere on the 3 of them at the end
When I played Dota a couple years back, my favorite hero was Spiritbreaker. This was back when he had his charge, a passive stun, and a passive movement speed boost. His ult would knockback the target. I'd start off with branches and maybe bracer components, and rush a SnY after my boots. Skill build I believe is 1 point in charge while maxing the two passives. I would charge from fountain, proc passive stun, ult, and usually they should be dead.
Nowadays I play HoN, here is a guide for Bubbles (Puck in dota). He has to play solo for the exp advantage, because his nuke power tapers off really fast as people catch up in levels. For middle, start with 2 branch, 1 +3 int, and tangos (can skip tangos if its a melee mid. Max your Nuke and your AoE silence, while getting ult and optional one point in Take Cover. Executing the combo is easy to learn: you shell surf into a group of enemies, pop your silence and ult right afterwards. More important is the timing: make sure your team is ready to go after your initiation. Once you have blink, combo becomes blink->silence+ult->shell surf->Take Cover->port to shell. If you have good farm, Bottle -> Boots -> Blink. If not, Bottle -> Boots -> Treads -> Blink. Swap treads for mana/health/agi for bottle sips when needed.
Mid laning tips: Last hit > Harass > deny is the general priority. With practice, you will know when to be aggressive - always push your limits, it will unnerve your opponent. Have someone ward the rune spawn, and run towards every rune. (your cheap starting items allows you a fast bottle for the 1st rune). With shell surf, you will be able to beat most opponents to the rune. Time the surf so you 1. slice through the enemy, damaging him 2. cuts in front of him so when you port, you are in front of him and win the race to the rune. Use the illu/dd runes liberally to last hit and harass better.
Ganking phase tips: You want to save the runes. Tp gank is safest, sure-fire gank. To do this, have courier bring you a tp and port (out of vision) to the lane where opponents are pushing forward. Remember bubbles is not a solo ganker, he needs friends to finish the job.
Funny story: I was playing with my noob friend and we were killing Roshan. My friend, who likes spamming keystrokes to boost his apm, accidentally attacks the aegis and destroys it. Everyone is standing still, thinking "am I dreaming, did he really just kill the aegis" wondering where the aegis went, while my friend is running around all hyper, not realizing what he had done.
"Oh, cool, an anti mage guide! Awesome to see DOTA 2 stuff on teamliqui..." *and he's giving away a DOTA 2 key!* + Show Spoiler +
YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAA
Anti-mage seems really strong in the beta. Listening to dota cinema it's cause he doesn't have any counter picks that work well in the game yet, but you list quite a few with pretty good reasoning.
As far as favorite hero goes, I'm entranced with tidehunter for DOTA 2, that fish looks amazing. I've never had a particular favorite champion or build/skill order because I'm pretty terrible, but Dazzle is always fun, maxing heal then shallow and letting allies go crazy (or covering my own ass when I get ganked).
On November 02 2011 04:35 BadAim wrote: Holy s**t my friend, nice write-up, an absolute joy to read!
Can we expect you to give us extensive guides to on *all* the dota2 heroes :D?
If I had the time. This guide came in at way over 10000 words, and Anti-Mage is one of the easy heroes to write about. I have a Windrunner guide in the making and the item builds section is going to make me pull out my hair.
On November 02 2011 04:58 saltywet wrote: i read the guide, i agree with almost everything except armlet being rejected
i think armlet is a good situational item, when activated, it gives more hp than vanguard, and you get damage and attack speed you also get hp regen and armor
its a cheap tanky dps item that can be gotten early
cilinder007 covered it a bit right below, but I'll talk about it a bit more anyway. Armlet is good when you're in a position to activate it and get away. One of Anti-Mage's problems is being chain-disabled to death, and that's very easy. Relying on the STR burst from Armlet is risky, and the AS increase is negligible. It's a cheap item, but it doesn't scale well at all and Anti-Mage farms quite well these days. Vanguard Treads Battle Fury Manta can all be gotten by 30 minutes in, and after that bigger-ticket items are in sight. Armlet is just a waste of 2600 gold since your illusions will be incredibly weak.
On November 02 2011 05:03 Horse...falcon wrote: Anybody know which (non-implemented heroes) are good against him? He's tearing up the beta right now.
I wanted to talk about him in the "foes" section but he's not implemented yet. Obsidian Destroyer absolutely destroys Anti-Mage. Pure damage through Arcane Orb goes through Spell Shield and damage block, and hurts Anti-Mage especially since he has such a low HP pool. Obsidian never runs out of mana either with his passive regeneration percentage chance. Shadow Demon can also destroy Anti-Mage. Disruptions create Anti-Mage illusions that burn away Anti-Mage's mana, Soul Catcher amplifies damage on him by 50%, and Purge is just nasty.
As I said in the guide, Void and Spectre can outcarry Anti-Mage. Neither cares too much about his/her mana, and Void with Butterfly negates half of Anti-Mage's hits. Spectre's dispersion means Anti-Mage hurts quite a bit when he hits her. As a carry, Syllabear can also push (somebody already talked about this below), and he gets his items much faster and can have more. An Anti-Mage with no room to farm is very useless.
And Invoker is pretty much just good against everybody.
On November 02 2011 05:15 shostakovich wrote: Nice guide.
But I think Phase Boots is a way superior choice than Power Treads. With Phase Boots and Yasha, Anti-Mage has a gigantic movespeed. This speed allows you to chase anyone in the battle, giving you the option of saving the Blink for escape purposes. Phase Boots allows more flexibility for Magina than Power Treads. It's not correct to say that Phase Boots doesn't add survivability, because it's speed boost can be used to run away. Survivability is more than simply having HP.
I agree with you on all this. I still tend to get Phase Boots when playing more of a ganking Anti-Mage, but that is rare. I tend to farm (just poorly) and Phase Boots aren't really needed. In today's burst-heavy game, you can go down in an instant to nukes and disables. The +152 HP through Strength treads helps a lot, and the Attack Speed scales better into lategame than the +24 damage from Phase Boots.
On November 02 2011 05:34 Osmoses wrote: This is the most ridiculous guide ever. How long did this take you to write?
Goddamnit now I need to start playing dota again.
I started writing this about two weeks ago. Took a long break then worked on it for about 5 hours today to finish it. Not sure about the total time, but I'd say around 15 to 20 hours.
On November 02 2011 05:35 LoliSquad wrote: A couple typos: The skillset says blink twice instead of Mana Void.
"Anti-Mage can also functional quite well as a semi-carry/ganker" This should probably say "function quite well".
Great guide. I would disagree slightly with your argument for Vanguard over PMS, as u say, blocking 20 out of 45 damage is nice, but 20 out of 150 is trivial. However the same is true to only a slightly lesser extent for the average of Vanguard, 28; blocking 28 out of 150 is trivial as well. That said, they are both good choices, but you give Vanguard more of an edge than I would. PMS is also finished a lot sooner than Vanguard, giving you better protection from harassment possibly and probably allowing you to farm (very) slightly better (the balance swings to Vanguard's side pretty hard when the RoH is purchased though, I would imagine). If you need the additional health of the Vanguard early on then that is probably the better choice, but if u feel u can get away without it I think PMS is superior.
PMS does finish faster, but in any case whether you want to go Battle Fury or get a Vanguard the Ring of Health is applicable to both. I'm very hesitant to run around with sub-1000 HP at level 16 these days.
On November 02 2011 05:56 Barundar wrote: Reading this made me want to play Anti Mage. I feel dirty.
I already posted much of it in another thread but I guess it fits the theme here if I change it a bit: My favourite hero is Abaddon,
if you have an inferiority complex you should really play him, because you can safe your mates so often in dire situations that the thank yous will give your ego a stronger boost than any of sharlie sheen's favourite courtesans. Your skills are wonderful for fragile carries, the heal heals(no really it does!) and can be used as a VERY good nuke(awesome range, dmg etc.), the only bad thing about it is that it damages you, but the damage isn't that bad and makes your buddies even more thankfull for getting healed and sometimes it can be even used to your advantage.
The shield makes attacking the shielded person dangerous, can be used together with your coil for a sudden burst of damage and has synergies with several different heroes(axe,pudge...), because it swallows a nice amount of damage done to you or your mates and lets it all out on your foes when it breaks. (and something that many people don't know is that it stops hex, which can be huge lateron and save a whole clash because the carry didn't lose valuable seconds of ownage).
The buffplacer/orb effect... oh that skill, we experienced so much together... it slowes enemies down AND enhances movement- AND attackspeed, a chaser like Riki or Magina will love you for it.
And of course his ulti, it autoactivates itself when you're about to die and only has a cooldown of 60 seconds, although it's sometimes much smarter to activate it manually to suprise your enemies, but what does it do? It transforms damage into hp! This, together with the shield and the orb give Abbadon excellent juking abilities, especially if you have phase boots for the speedboost and to move through your enemies(don't forget this when you want to feel like a real man, there's nothing better than to survive it when 5 guys focus you and run after you through the whole jungle).
And even if everything is lost and you know that you will die you can still deny the satisfaction (and the gold) to your enemies and commit suicide with the help of your coil(and heal/damage an enemy/foe at the same time as a farewell present) and make them rage, because they didn't manage to kill you after investing so much in it. If you want your fellow teammates to love you, play him, be a nice person and always support your fellow teammates and especially your carry.
As you may have noticed by now, I play abbadon as a supporter, although I usually like to play all of the roles, except some of the carries, because I don't like it to stay somewhere(on a lane, in the jungle) for long after the early to farm creeps. I usually play sigs on dota-league.com and there I always random(when the mode permits it), just because I really like the diversity (the great thing about not liking to play some of the very farm focussed carries is that there's nearly always somebody who wants to swap that hero with you^^) and it also makes it a bit more challenging(but it's very important that you random as soon as possible, because if you wait your teammates can't pick accordingly). I really love playing him, especially with a guy who likes to play Riki or Never or another carry like that, I love playing abbadon together with him, even if we have a bad early he doesn't just die in clashes or ganks because his hp is so low, because his farm was bad, I can keep him alive with my spells and he can still do his damage and even more of it thanks to my orb effect.
As for the funny moments, I play abba for years already so there are quite a few, but right now it's actually kinda hard to think of many, but for you guys(and the beta key:D) I'll write one down which I have in my mind right now.
In one game I played against a Bloodseeker on a LAN and he barely got away fight, he only had his normal boots and a radiance so when was running away a Dark Seer in my team missclicked and surged a ghoul instead of me to finish him off and since my coil was on cd I only had my shield ready to damage him, while everybody was still shouting and cursing the DS player(including himself) I quickly shielded the surged ghoul which ran as fast as possible after the Bloodseeker and his radiance did damage to him, now if the shieldburst would've have killed him it would have been funny, but it didn't instead the shield exploded and left the Bloodseeker barely alive. What did kill him was the ghoul itself, it hit him one last time and while we were already dissappointed that he survived the damage of my shield we all laughed out loud when the creep got him. The whole scene kinda sounded like this: "FUUUUUUUUCK NO!" "DS YOU..." "NICE IDEA ABBA!" "YEAAAAAAAAH no fuck wait SHIT §"%$&%(//&$§ HE'S ALIVE!" "THE CREEP, THE CREEP YAAAAAH!" "LOL!" Maybe it's one of the you-should-have-been-there-moments but even today it still makes me laugh.
PS: Here's a li'l video I found on youtube
EDIT: Yeah we lost the game about 10 minutes later, but it was very much fun. EDIT2: Oh and I always laugh when a carry tries to lasthit and I shield the creep in the last second to deny him the money and damage him.
My absolute favorite hero is Lich. I enjoy his versatility in the lane phase, his strong river/jungle control from his ult, and the late game support option from his ice armor.
As for skill build, the first 5 levels can vary greatly depending on what I am doing. If I am babysitting a non-aggressive carry: ritual -> nova -> ritual -> nova -> nova If I am in an aggressive lane looking for kills: ritual -> nova -> nova -> ritual -> nova If I am in a dangerous 1v2 lane because we have a jungle (A situation I find myself in fairly often) I will occasionally go with: ritual -> nova -> ritual -> nova -> ritual (generally do this if I don't expect much help from my jungler, and I plan to stay in the lane for a bit) If I am looking for a fight at level 1, whether it is to counter a level 1 rosh or fighting over the pull ward against an aggressive lane I will go nova first Obviously, I skill ult whenever I can, max nova after ult, and depending on the situation, I can max ritual or start getting points in frost armor.
The way I play can vary greatly depending on what the lanes are, but generally I like to leave my lane to roam when I am confident that my carry can safely farm. Ritual allows me to stay on the map without a bottle, and while Lich doesn't have the strongest ganking potential unless his ult is up, forcing people out of a lane with a gank or the threat of a gank is sometimes just as powerful as getting a kill.
My core items on lich are simply: tp's (always be ready to protect your carry when it's getting tower dived), wards, and counter wards (oh and magic stick, but everyone gets that) Beyond that, everything is reactionary. Generally I will get a mek because it is cheap and easy to assemble between buying wards. If the team is snowballing and I am doing really well, I get sheep stick. If physical damage is just destroying me every fight, I get the self banish. If big aoe's are a problem, I get a pipe. I also sometimes get a push stick because its the funnest item for support.
As for my story, its more a recurring thing for me because I play Lich so much. Chain Frost is a powerful tool for mid game jungle/river control because it can punish people very severely for walking around those areas in a group, away from their creep. But even when they are alone, sometimes Chain Frost can be deadly. I cannot count the number of times I kill someone in the bottom river because Chain Frost bounced to the neutral creep camp on the high ground and back to the hero. Lich is a pretty easy hero to play overall, but knowing these cute little Chain Frost spots can be pretty helpful sometimes
Now this is a story all about how baller I am How my life got restored after I fell down And I'd like to take a moment, just sit n' read here I'll tell you how I became a Baller of top lane
It went like this.
So I roll out my hood, see my homies hitting up some hoe's. They wave me over, and I see this white devil gurl . Being my baller self, I smack that gurl down. Before she knows it, she's flat on her back. My team is all like "Oh shit dude, you baller".
So I roll on down to my dog at the bot lane, and they all like. "Hey, I'm farming here!" and I'm all like "You ain't Gangsta, you ain't top dog homes".
I leave that player and stroll through the forest for some friendly fun. I find these little Gnoll punks, and decide to lay a smack down on them. When a couple of guys who were up to no good Started makin' trouble in my neighborhood I got in one little fight and my Team Leader got scared And said you're movin' with your auntie( )and uncle() in top lane
I whistled for a TP and when the courier came near The bird said "Squawk", and it had claws in the rear If anything I could say that this courier had flare But I thought man forget it's a stupid bird. Yo homes to top lane
I pulled up to the tower about 2 or 3 And I yelled to the courier 'yo homes squawk ya later' Looked at my forest, I was finally there To sit on my throne as the Baller of top lane
Later on in Baller Smith's career he fought aliens and saved the world
Edit: Oh and I wrote a song for IceFrog as well. I'm trying to record it. My voice isn't that good, nor my recording equipment either(meaning webcam micro is all I got >_<) Anyway, if your interested Flamewheel. I should have it up tonight. Recorded then mixing it with the instrumentals.
it used to be pretty troll to build to go Eul's into Guinsoos and just perma-disable someone on their team to feed your carry kill after kill.
funniest (and most frustrating) dragon knight moment is definitely any time you kite someone a really long time with your chain disables and it takes so long someone on their team comes and denies your kill with Tiny's toss or something like that.
Whenever I'm down and frustrated over allies, loss streaks, and general unproductivity from being addicted to dota, this hero is always a fix! (well for 2 out of 3).
What makes him so great is you can have a sure loss on your hand, the most frustrating allies, and still pull off moments that just makes you go: This is why I play dota.
Of course the hook ability is the most important reason I love pudge. Pulling off hooks into the dark, while just knowing you hit a fleeing hero right in the a, and getting that rewarding 250 text somewhere is just so awesome. Sometimes you hit "that game", and every single hook, even the most impossible, lands and net a kill. Pudge can just dominate the opponent team in a way no other hero is able to, getting into their head and almost making them walk into hooks. Bonus point when opponent team calls you a maphacker .
Secondly pudge can pull off so much harassment with rot. Even if you are losing, you still have the chance to deny yourself, feeling awesome as well as denying the opponents that little bit of gold. It helps with creeping, and most importantly you can run around owning even invisible heroes. As with hooks, it can give you that amazing feeling of dota pwnage.
Lastly pudge is just fat, and being fat and unkillable is just my thing. The amount of times I've made a narrow escape from a group of vicious enemies, due to his regen (items), magic immunity and kick ass hit point pool are countless. Often it allows my team to fall upon them making them pay, and me even snatching a few on the retreat. I don't think I subconsciously wants to be a wrestler, but being fat is just awesome.
My favorite game with pudge is of cause because of a hook. Sentinel, playing with 2 friends, we win a late game team fight defending our bottom tier 2 tower, yet the enemy carry, a well farmed clinkz, escapes on low hp. Just as I rack in the last of the enemies, netting me a double kill, I immediately start chasing. One friend (Dark Seer) surges me, the other force staffs me, and just before I get out of range I get surged again. In the mean time I see on mini map, just for a split second, clinkz appearing before he restealths near our middle tower. I walk through sentinel forest, through the water, and up into the small wood just behind the scourge middle tower, before doing my hook. And I hit, with very most edge of the hook, killing him off. What made it so great was not only the game deciding factor, neither the fact I hit a max speed invisible clinkz after chasing half the map, but the fact that it was a team effort to get there, and that we all shared the awesomeness
I started playing DotA with some people from TeamLiquid in 2007 or so. I didn't know much about the game and I didn't really have a main hero, I just played with whatever or would -random. I would play on and off until I found a hero that I completely fell in love with:
So small, so dangerous.
The perfect ganking hero. A hero that can throw enemies and stun them as well. And of course everybody knows the combo where you use Avalanche, use Toss to throw them straight up in the air and have them land back in the Avalanche for double the damage. Blink Dagger is of course amazing on Tiny and needed to close gaps as well as make great escapes if needed. Besides that, basic items for survivability (Bracers, TP's, Potions) as well as a Bottle and Arcane Boots is really all Tiny needs. Tiny is an excellent early-mid game hero and is not very dependent on items, which allows him to shine while he assists his allies.
Getting up close and personal is mandatory on this beast.
As far as skills, I alternate between Avalanche and Toss. After those two are maxed out, I then get Craggy Exterior which gives him that extra armor and helps for survivability. I save Grow for very last (even after stats) just to make Tiny that much harder to see and target. Yes, the extra range / damage / movespeed is nice, but so is the ability to squeeze through minions and other small paths, especially in Warcraft 3 where pathfinding plays a large role.
Of course, when playing with friends, throwing your allies into the fountain is always tempting... But of course as a nice, innocent Tiny player, surely you would never do that.
Does this face look guilty to you?
I've had some really fun games as Tiny where everything just seemed to go right. Ganks were executed perfectly and I did not make any silly mistakes with throws or stuns. It's really hard to pick one out in particular. But honestly every game with Tiny is fun and he's the hero that really got me interested in DotA.
When girls shirts have your favorite hero on them, you know he's for real.
I'm typing all of this from memory, so if I'm mistaken it's because I haven't played classic DotA in ~2-3 years. I've also played since DX/EX Eul era, so I may get things mixed up that have changed in patches over the course of the games.
My favorite hero of all time was the ghoul in DotA: Darkness Falls. For those who don't know, after Eul stopped updating DotA DX (or was it EX? I forget which one was the TFT version), a bunch of knockoffs emerged, including Darkness Falls and Allstars which were my 2 favorites. Allstars is the DotA still played today.
The ghoul had a shadow arrow stun, lifesteal aura, one skill I forgot, and his ultimate made 3 copies of himself that each made 3 copies every time they attacked. He was delightfully broken and pushed towers like no one's business. He was only out-brokened by Archimonde and Furion, which both had an instant teleport to anywhere on the map and a Holy Light/Death Coil that healed a teammate or damaged an enemy.
But I digress.
My favorite all-stars hero was probably the Night Stalker. I played him almost since his inception and ended up being quite good at him. He is a hero that is basically a vanilla strength hero during the day that gets supercharged at night, gaining near maximum movement speed, a powerful slow, and a silence/blind that renders his foes nearly helpless. If you venture out from your tower at night, you're asking for a swift and sure death.
First still is Void.
In day it does standard damage (the rough curve all normal nuke spells follow of 75/125/225/300), and at night it adds a powerful slow. This is your bread and butter nuke ability. You can use it to harass in lanes and you should use it every time you jump on someone at night (obviously after they use any escape they may have).
Second skill is Fear.
This spell does absolutely nothing during the day. At night, however, it's one of the most valuable CCs in the game.
Fear silences and blinds the enemy for a duration based on level. This isn't like the blinds in other games, it just makes a certain % of their attacks miss. It's one of the longest silences in the game, and it gives you a huge advantage over any spellcaster.
Third skill is Hunter in the Night (dunno hotkey, it's a passive):
This is what makes you stupid powerful at nighttime. During the day, it does nothing, however at night it increases your movement and attack speed by an atrocious amount, enabling you to easily hit max movement speed with power treads. You can blaze around the entire map with ease ganking anyone who gets out of position without fear of them being able to run due to your massive speed.
Ultimate is Nightfall.
You can use this at any time to make it night for a certain duration. At lvl 16, you can make it damn near permanently night with this skill, meaning you can just go nuts. In DotA 1, however, it turns the clock purple, so they're going to be well aware you just cast your ultimate and will be prepared for ganks.
Night Stalker is a great choice for a solo sidelane. Even if he gets zoned, he can last hit with Void and stay in exp range. As a STR hero, he has natural bulk that helps him survive light harass. Against a weaker opponent, he can use Void to harass and control the lane until lvl 6 when he can turn the tables and get a kill.
Early game:
Just stay in lane and get exp. Last hits are great, but your true income will be ganking at lvl 6+ so just make sure you don't get completely zoned. Harass if you can. Once you hit 6, activate the ulti and kill whoever is in your lane, or anyone else that overextends. I start with boots of speed and tangoes/branches. (if you are solo, consider a shield into vanguard instead)
Mid game:
You should be fresh off 1-2 ganks during your ult. This should let you finish STR treads and start a BKB (or finish vanguard if you were solo). Once night naturally rolls around, you should be roaming and picking off anyone who is out of position, if they are all turtling, then take their entire jungle, they should not be able to stop you. Do not be afraid to dive at this point.
Late game:
Once late game rolls around, you'll find you won't be able to compete with harder carries like Antimage, Bloodseeker, and the like unless you really, really outfarm them. This is where Night Stalker is the weakest, because everyone tends to stick mostly together and your main role becomes focusing squishies and fearing their carries rather than cleaning up all the kills.
An average gank should consist of you running in from behind them and Voiding, followed by a fear and autoattacks. You should be able to dive them as early as lvl 6 due to your natural bulk, but use good judgement when doing so. You are vunerable to stuns until you get a BKB, so be wary of that.
Skill order:
Void -> Hunter -> Void -> Fear -> Void -> Nightfall -> Hunter -> Hunter -> whatever. You want lvl 3 void at 5 for lane presence and gankability, and fear and hunter do nothing until the first night, but once you get your ult, you should stop leveling void and start leveling your night ganking skills. I prefer leaving fear at 1 and maxing void and hunter first, but that's just me, the other route is just as viable and even better depending on the matchup.
Item build:
Shield/3 branch/pot/tango to start if you're solo.
Otherwise, take boots/branch/tangoes.
You should end up with Str Treads, Vanguard, BKB as your 3 core items. These allow you to kill most everyone in the mid game. Follow it up with Helm -> Satanic. After that, use your discretion, if you need more tank items, get Heart/Curiass, if you need more damage, get Chrysalis -> Biruza, MKB, or S&Y.
Some of my favorite memories of Balanar were when I ended up getting a pre-6 kill in a solo sidelane (back when people used to always send 2 mid in pubs at least) and getting my ult before anyone else was 6. Then I'd run up behind mid and double kill them at the tower 90% of the time. After that, everyone would start bitching about how OP NS was while I raced around the map killing everyone that left their tower. At that point, a lot of people started ragequitting or tower camping, in which case I would just run around soloing jungle creeps and pushing with my team.
The only game I have a clear memory of that was even close was when I went up against a bloodseeker that got fed in one of our lanes. We ended up trading back and forth fighting in the river and jungle, he'd kill me, then I'd kill him next time (including a hilarious one where I didn't notice rupture while I had hunter on and just killed myself from half health in under 2 seconds). Then the teamfights started and he started making a grave mistake: He'd silence me. That gave me the damage boost I needed to rip right through him and, consequently, the rest of his team.
Good times.
Edit: Upon reflection, shield into vanguard is almost always better, but I don't think vanguard existed as an item when I stated playing NS.
I started playing DotA with some people from TeamLiquid in 2007 or so. I didn't know much about the game and I didn't really have a main hero, I just played with whatever or would -random. I would play on and off until I found a hero that I completely fell in love with:
So small, so dangerous.
The perfect ganking hero. A hero that can throw enemies and stun them as well. And of course everybody knows the combo where you use Avalanche, use Toss to throw them straight up in the air and have them land back in the Avalanche for double the damage. Blink Dagger is of course amazing on Tiny and needed to close gaps as well as make great escapes if needed. Besides that, basic items for survivability (Bracers, TP's, Potions) as well as an Arcane Ring, a Bottle, and Boots of course is really all Tiny needs. Tiny is an excellent early-mid game hero and is not very dependent on items, which allows him to shine while he assists his allies.
Getting up close and personal is mandatory on this beast.
As far as skills, I alternate between Avalanche and Toss. After those two are maxed out, I then get Craggy Exterior which gives him that extra armor and helps for survivability. I save Grow for very last (even after stats) just to make Tiny that much harder to see and target. Yes, the extra range / damage / movespeed is nice, but so is the ability to squeeze through minions and other small paths, especially in Warcraft 3 where pathfinding plays a large role.
Of course, when playing with friends, throwing your allies into the fountain is always tempting... But of course as a nice, innocent Tiny player, surely you would never do that.
Does this face look guilty to you?
I've had some really fun games as Tiny where everything just seemed to go right. Ganks were executed perfectly and I did not make any silly mistakes with throws or stuns. It's really hard to pick one out in particular. But honestly every game with Tiny is fun and he's the hero that really got me interested in DotA.
When girls shirts have your favorite hero on them, you know he's for real.
So, this is what you've been working on! It really shows that you've done a lot of research. Great job! Very thorough, detailed, and informative. You're a boss.
As for my favorite hero, it would probably have to be Sandking. I've always traditionally loved the roaming/ganking role, and I feel Sandking perfectly complements that style for myself personally. Not too much info in terms of a skill build, just your customary standard, prioritizing burrowstrike, occasionally getting sandstorm, and watching the game change when I hit lvl 6.
For items, honestly, I tend to play pretty light on SK, once I get my standard bottle, I grab boots and then desperately try and get that all important blink dagger. After that, I'm pretty much good to go.
My favorite hero is is Drow Ranger. I just love glass cannons like drow because of how careful you have to be and how focused you have to be to get the necessary cs to carry. She's a lovely character and I just can't wait to use her in DotA 2.
My skillbuild usually goes like this. solo mid Frost, Aura, Aura, Silence, Aura, Marksmanship, Aura, Silence, silence, Stats, Marksmanship, Silence, Stats, Stats, Frost, Marksmanship, Frost, Frost, stats
My starting items are usually Tangos, and boots (really depends on who i expect to solo against) If i suspect to solo with much better lane control: tangos, 3 gg branches, slipper, salve. My core consists of HotD and Manta. Luxury: buriza.
My most memorable game was a game with my friends. We did a two on two with pubs. The two on the other team firmly opposed the HotD build, and so i felt like proving them wrong. I really lived the name of a glass cannon by dying more than I should've in the beginning. But i focused on cs and proceeded to get my core and "dominated" them all. It's always fun owning your friends.
Good lord man, there is a LOT of writing here, and impressively comprehensive. Very nice. I've tried writing guides before but always flagged before finishing them.
As for my favourite hero, it's got to be Pugna. I used just to be terrible with him, I couldn't do anything other than make a dagon and run around hoping to find someone low hp, and that's still hilarious, but one day he just clicked. He can do pretty much anything you want him to, lane anywhere you want, agressively push, gank, and with just a few items he's terrifying. The trouble with choosing pugna is that your skill and item build depends on your allies and enemies more than most other heroes. Sven is a bit of a no brainer - you pick storm bolt, and then argue with yourself how many points of stats or warcry to get.
Pugna can choose any of his skills, pretty much in any order, and it can be the right decision at the time. I've had games where I've outlaned zeus purely through the power of ward, having level 4 ward up at level 7, and just daring him to nuke me. If you're with another nuker, decrepify is a death sentence, especially if it usually needs positioning. Laning with lina It's blast/decrepify all the way, and start rolling in kills at around level 3.
That said, probably my most common build is 1 point of decrepify, then maxing blast over ward, with his ulti whenever I can. I occasionally would skip the ulti, but I've had far too many attempted tower dives on me be completely turned around with a quick drain to pass up on it now. For items, unless there's a specific need or I'm in the mood to dagon, I tend to get an urn, a stick, piles of tp scrolls and then head for a guinsoo, with boots along the way, and depending on the game a point booster somewhere in the middle if I feel I need it.
One of my fondest dota memories is from games with friends where we'd impose silly restrictions, one set of which was: Basic boots, orchid and bashers only. By the end of the game I had three orchids and a basher, and out dps-ed a huskar with raw auto attacks, watching this little skelly flailing his arms about like a lunatic, spraying enormous balls of green death everywhere was hilarious.
I love pugna because at first glance, he's quite one dimensional - a pure nuke support, but when you play him a lot you realise how much nuance there is in his play, how many little tricks you can pull, just with decrepify - on his ward, on yourself to counter omnislash, stealing roshan with a decrep/blast. The amount of mindgames you can play with pugna is just awesome, and taking out a really farmed carry with a combination of ghost staff, decrepify and hex over what feels like years is one of the most satisfying things in dota, imo.
On November 02 2011 05:07 Kipsate wrote: not really sold on the magic stick, I feel that its situational for AM.
It's only 200 gold for an amazing item, almost always worth it on pretty much every hero in the game.
Good guide though, covers pretty much anything you'd ever want to know about AM.
Personally, my favourite hero would be Puck, though. The skillbuild I go on him is orb, phase shift, orb, rift, orb, coil, orb, rift x3, coil, phase shift x3, stats, coil, stats. Reasoning behind this is quite simple really, you max orb first because it gives you mobility, does more damage, has a longer range and a lower cooldown than rift. One level in phase shift greatly helps greatly with your survivability, being able to just evade a storm bolt for example, is HUGE, but you only need one level in the early stages of the game. And since there's not much else to choose from, rift is going to be maxed out before phase shift, while taking ult at every level possible, because Puck's ult is incredible.
Start with a set of tangos, a flask, and 2 clarity pots for regen. Might seem like a lot, but I like it. For stat items, you'll want 2 branches and a ring of protection, then it's time to head off to your lane.
You should be soloing if at all possible, early game farm and XP is quite important for such a gank oriented hero like Puck, and the mid lane suits him perfectly since he can both push the lane and move around very quickly with illusory orb, meaning he has an easy time getting to the rune first vs most heroes. And, if you're going to be focusing heavily on getting runes, you obviously need a bottle, so here's the general item build I find works the best:
I already went over the starting items, but with your next 600g, you'll want to get a bottle, followed by boots, a magic wand, and a ring of basilius. Notice how the starting items all build into this. I find this to be the best way to build because the bottle's obviously going to be needed to maximize the effectiveness of taking runes, magic wand is just an unbelievably good item (one of the best in the game, imo) in general, and I prefer ring of basilius over, let's say a null talisman or a bracer, especially when taking the aura into consideration.
Once you've got all of this, you've got a choice ahead of you, what to turn your boots into. I think phase boots, power treads and arcane boots are all viable choices for him, but personally, I prefer treads, just because he's quite squishy and the extra strength can really help you with this, especially in the early game. But, it all comes down to preference and there's nothing wrong with another set of boots.
Once your boots are finished, you're looking to get a blink dagger, so you can really abuse mobility. Very few heroes can escape a gank when you have both a shell and a blink to chase them with, and it's great for survivability as well. Because of your phase shift, it's not that hard to time it so that you go 3 seconds without taking damage for you to be able to blink away from you getting ganked, and for teamfights, instead of using your orb to get into a group of heroes to land your silence as well as your ult, you can just blink in, drop your silence, send out an orb, phase shift and then port to your orb, and you're completely safe.
This is your core, and this is all you'll ever need on Puck. What you get from here differs from game to game, some good items to choose from however, are force staff, guinsoo's, eul's, orchid, linken's and shiva's. Personally, I prefer guinsoo's, but it's completely up to and your team what you should be getting. You have your core already, so all of this should be considered luxury. If your team needs it, you can even start helping out with wards from here.
And obviously, REMEMBER TO CARRY TP SCROLLS THROUGHOUT THE GAME, THEY'RE NOT CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BEST, IF NOT THE BEST ITEM IN THE GAME FOR NO REASON.
Your main goal when playing Puck is just to gank as much as you can, all throughout the game, while building towards your core, and once teamfights start to become the focus of the game, your job is to initiate, or work as a follow-up initiator with your silence and your ult.
And to finish the guide, some useful things to know when playing Puck:
- Illusory orb gives you vision of the vision the area it's passing through, even if there's trees or other things that would normally create fog of war in the way, this can be VERY useful when chasing someone. - You can put your phase shift on auto-cast, and this can be very useful if you just know that Lina is about to ult you, for example, but, having phase shift on auto-cast will not work vs abilities with a stun portion, so if Lina decides to throw a stun at you first, it will not auto-cast, and you will be stunned unless you activated it yourself. - Your ult has an initial ministun when you cast it, this can be useful for interrupting various channeling spells, despite being an ultimate disable however, the ministun nor the stun when someone breaks the coil will not go through magic immunity.
That's it for the guide, and a very memorable moment I have of playing Puck (or, in this case, since I was playing hon, Bubbles), was in a game where the other team had a very overfed Chronos (Faceless Void), and my team was pushing. As everyone in my team is quite clumped up, this slightly overbold (though he was RIDICULOUSLY fed) Chronos leaps in, and the moment I see this, I turn invulnerable with my take cover, and the chronosphere goes up only milliseconds later, but since I managed to take cover before it hit, I'm able to blink out of the chronosphere and use my sheepstick on this Chronos, which results in our Soulstealer (Shadow Fiend) just barely living through the ult. As the ult wears off, everyone immediately does everything in their power to kill Chronos, and he dies. We follow this up with a 5v4 teamfight, in which our Soulstealer pulls off an incredible ult, which leads to all 5 of us coming out alive, while their entire team dies, and as a result, we rax 2 of their lanes, which allows us to come back and win a game that I was completely certain was already lost.
Amazingly guide.. this really sets the bar high for TL as a good source for DotA2 content. Here is my submission for the key contest!
My favorite hero is Sven the Rouge Knight, his utility in competitive matches and his ability to completely stomp unprepared pubbies is refreshing and that brief moment of anticipation before he starts attacking with his God's Strength increased cleaving swings of death is exhilarating.
If I'm playing Sven in a situation where I'm not that carry, and I need to support, I generally take Storm Bolt at 1,3,5 and 7, with Stats at level 2. This allows you to make use of your greatest asset early game, your aoe stun. It does good damage and has great range, but costs a lot of mana. This is where stats come into play as they allow you to be able to throw off more stuns. I usually pick up Warcry at 4 and Ultimate at 6, but they can both be put off for more levels of stats if need be, and I generally skill up to three levels of stats before I start maxing Warcry and Cleave, while taking Ulti when it doesn't sacrifice something more important, because you really don't get too much return from leveling God's Strength, and extra levels of Warcry cut the cooldown and increase benefits for no extra mana cost, a much better deal overall. Cleave is great for farming and allows you to carry pretty well if your opponents decide to group up too tightly in a team fight, but just isn't as useful as Warcry, and should only be leveled with a higher priority if stomping newbies.
My favorite item build with Sven is to begin the game with cheap stats and some regeneration items, like Ironwood Branches and Tangoes. Opening up with Gauntlets and branches allows you to last hit and deny easier, and builds into Urn, which is a core item. Generally getting Clarity potions isn't a terrible idea, but shouldn't really be necessary, because you should save your stuns for key moments. Sven is very versatile because his core items consist of very cheap items that are purchasable in small, easy to farm parts. My core item build is usually Magic Wand, Urn, Boots and sometimes a Bottle. These items allow Sven to be aggressive and safe at the same time. Boots are a personal choice as Phasers will allow you to engage better, but don't offer the versatility of Treads and don't factor into God's Strength damage increase, and Treads will offer greater flexibility and welcome attack speed. From here builds diverge a bit, because if you're supporting, you don't need more farm or items, and should start warding and maybe working towards some team friendly items like Vlad's. If you find yourself carrying, however, consider picking up a Blink and BKB, as this combination allows you to get up close and gives you immunity to stuns and purges, Sven's greatest natural enemies (God's Strength is purgeable), as well as much needed closing and stats.
Sven's role in teamfights is generally to stun the biggest baddest target, and maybe go after the supports. When looking for targets for stun, consider the following, am I carrying? If no, then you should do your best to keep your carry alive and to pick off vulnerable targets. If yes, then you should probably be doing exactly the same thing, except now you're the one who is calling the shots on who to engage, because your stun and Warcry will set the terms of the engagement.
Another big reason for Sven being my favorite hero is because I was playing him when I got my first ever Rampage! It was the version right after the Rampage sound effect was added, and a CM on my team allowed my to roam and get lots of kills because of the mana aura, and I got up Blink, BKB and MoM pretty quickly. Needless to say, a Dark Seer Vacuum later I had my first Rampage.
My favorite hero would be Crystal Maiden. I've grown to love the support role. And with ice spells and an aura I feel that I can both control enemies, and provide a passive bonus to my teammates over time.
Obviously the gear I usually get is limited to a pair of boots and a lot of wards. Sometimes during late game I'd like to get a pair of Phase Boots, even after the "nerf". But I love it, I cannot help the relaxed feeling I get when I don't have to stress my ass farming. Instead I can focus on my placement and provide the best babysitting/warding humanly possible.
Of course I like heroes with direct heals aswell, but different team setups requires different supporters! And also, Crystal Maiden happens to be the first hero I ever played!
Oh man nice guide. I loved Antimage in DotA...BFly + Basher into LOL I HIT YOU TOO FAST AND STUN YOU TOO MUCH AND NO SPELLS FOR YOU epicness? I think so.
I'll be honest. I've never played Dota before. I'm against torrenting games and none of the Best-Buys near me have it. I've been studying Dota-allstars relentlessly though, memorizing stats of heroes, items, and strategies. A Dota 2 beta key would mean a lot to me because I will finally be able to play the damn game!
I'm definitely going to start out with Lich. I've heard he's a good hero to learn with, and he seems like a badass. The videos I've seen of his ultimate make me hard. I would probably go a heavy support role with mekans followed by boots. I'll spam my q and keep my mana up with Dark ritual. I can't wait for my first Lich ultimate. It will be like losing my Dota Virginity.
Did Battlefury get way better? Because I remember that back when I played DotA, people on the forums would trash you if you recommended using it anywhere. A lot seems to have changed since the glory days of 6.59d.
My favorite hero is definitely Syllabear, though my favorite times playing him is when i skip his bear and max his other abilities first. I rush Boots of Travel and Yasha so he goes scary fast and just mow people down by orb walking behind them haha. It's always great when my enemy finally realizes I'm too fast for him to run away, but by then, it's already too late! ^^
My favorite hero might have to be Sacred Warrior. I love his Burning Spears because the damage from it makes me smile. He has a heal, which god knows I need, and his passive ability makes for some awesome kills from low health. Life Break is one of the most satisfying abilities I've ever seen, because it changes the tide of battles and is really fun to use.
I always max out Burning Spears and Berserker's Blood before anything else, because it allows for potential kills on targets who overextend themselves. My favorite items to grab usually are Dagger to help get in range for Life Break and to spam more spears, and Armlet because it's awesome.
I was at a LAN center once with a few friends. My friends and I were all pretty bad at the game, but we enjoyed playing it. I picked Huskar out of the Single Draft, and my friend Tyler got Kunkka. So we ran around throwing spears and boats at people yelling things at random. (LAN centers are great places for DotA. It's always more fun when you're in trash talk range of your enemies.) One of the guys on their team saw us running at him, but he forgot to buy boots so he wasn't as fast as us. Kunkka throws that X on him while I throw as many spears as my health pool will allow. As the guy is just about to get away, Kunkka pushes his ultimate, and a boat flies across the screen. An ear piercing scream of "NOOO!" fills the room as the guy who is running from it enters panic mode. He spams right click so hard, he somehow manages to snap two of the wheels off his chair and fall to the floor. As soon as the sound of his body hitting the ground fades off, M-M-M-Monster kill plays through 10 sets of computer speakers.
Nice presentation, in depth and easy to read, got a better understanding of the hero and the stuff going around in the beta streams :p Congratz. Thank you as well for the opportunity to get a beta key, here's my submission:
I started playing dota a looong time ago. At first alone but after a while some of my friends joined in. Fun times were had wether winning or losing ( not really actually, when we were losing we were always arguing of who did what on which hero). Although we were new to this kind of genre we already had our favorite heroes. Can't count the times we had a team consisting of Riki.Gondar.Ursa.Trax and me trying to pick something usefull. I had to choose from a lot of heroes, maybe Axe to support them or Lich for the baller ulti nah as soon as i set my eyes on the "do it all" blood elf i fell in love ( not in a man love way, not that it's anything wrong with it). The "infinite" number of skills he possed coupled with the short cooldown at higher levels made him a great carry.support.burster. If you don't know him Invoker is his name and i'll try to make a short introduction and the way i played him.
He's an Intelligence hero with 3 skills consisting of elements (Quas, Wex, Exort) and a mixing one ( Invoke) that creates a new skill based on the elements combined. Fast fingers coupled with a good memory cand create no less than 10 skills with a plethora of uses from summons to burst spells to buffs/debuffs. The complexity of the hero in my opinion rivals no other. Aside from knowing the combos most of the spells are skillshots, including a global one "Sun strike" ( 3 Exort)
( a burst skill that does a lot of damage anywhere on the map) which is one of my favorites. Another skill that i liked to use is
"Deafening Blast" (1 Quas, 1 Wex and 1 Exort)
( another damage skill which based on the lvl of the elements can knockback and prevent atack of enemy heroes) coupled with
"Chaos Meteor" (1 Wex and 2 Exort)
( high damage spell which left a trail behind it damaging over time) could devastate a whole team.
"Emp" (3 Wex) is another usefull skill. Being on a starcraft forum i guess people know what it does and why they hate it. Well in Dota it does mostly the same thing with an added knockback based on the lvl of the elemets used. These are only 4 of the most used skills on invoker the other 6 having no less of an utility depending on the build you were going and the role you were trying to cover.
Moving on to the item build i have to say, being such a versatile hero Invoker had no cookie cutter build like some of the other champions. You could either go support focusing on buffs and disables or even carry relying on high damage, atkspeed buff and your trusty armor reduction companion ( summoning spell) . I would usually go for the damage type of Invoker.
Item build:
Starter items: 1. which later on turn into
2. now after you got these, depending on how you're doing you should go for one of the fallowing 3. for the extra health ( think i forgot to mention Invo is a really squishy champ) and slow for the extra attack speed and silence for the dmg and high proc chance based on your attack speed and finally as final items.
Obviously that's a full build, you'll never get to get all those items unless the game drags for a long time or you're getting all the kills. Basically you should easily get to the second step, after that i'd start working on , it's composed of cheap items and it helps you with mana regen aswell. You could go for a for the extra survivability early on aswell. After that start building your and it should roll easily from there on.
1. Exort 2. Wex 3. Exort 4. Wex 5. Exort 6. Invoke 7. Wex 8. Exort 9. Quas 10. Quas 11. Invoke 12. Exort 13. Wex 14. Exort 15. Wex 16. Invoke 17. Wex 18. Exort 19. Wex 20. Invoke 21. Quas 22. Quas 23. Quas 24. Quas 25. Quas
Exort boosts your damage, intelligence and is part o every high damage dealing combo. Wex Gives you attack speed and increased agility Quas Gives you hp regen and strength
I max Exort first for the extra damage, taking Wex right after for the attack speed and maxing Quas last, taking only 2 points early for the combos and extra regen during lane phase. Invoke is skilled every time it's available. Until lvl 6 you just farm your lane with Exort on for easier last hitting and harrasing after that you start controlling the lane with your skills.
The combos you'll usually use are the ones i preseted earlier. Deafening blast fallowed by chaos meteor will do tons of damage on anyone caught by the blast. Check the other lanes for low health heroes and use Sun Strike to finish them off ( had quite a few laughs with this one, enemies thinking they're safe just to be struck down in the next second %&%&$ fallowing on all chat). Another useful skill for evading ganks or getting away in a dire situation is
"Ghost Walk" (2 Quas and 1 Wex) Whenever you fell you're in trouble just pop it on and you're invisible for 100 sec. The downside to this is you'll be slowed depending on the lvl of the elements but your enemies will be aswell.
There's so much more to write about this hero and i'm not that of an experienced person either. As i stated earlier the possibilities with this champ seem endless thus making him a very fun and hard to master hero. When you'll first play him you'll feel overwhelmed with all the skills that you need to memorize, there's a helpful tool for the beginners, just write "-invokelist" in chat and all the skill combos will appear on your screen. Well guess that's it for now, sorry if i offended anyone with my reasoning and "guide", i'm open to suggestions. Heh guess this is my first post on TeamLiquid too ( hooray), long time lurker though. Good luck and don't forget the game's about having fun.
My favourite memory in DOTA, which also brings me to my favourite hero, Invoker, has to be when I literally stacked only Boots and Mana Masks and a Blink Dagger (just trolling around, ofcourse), and I remember my team dying to the entire enemy team, but leaving them quite low, and then the enemy team stacked, and I blinked in and dropped my meteor. Massacre ensued with the cindering flesh of my foes infront of me.
Ofcourse, I should mention, that's an incredibly silly build but it allowed to to continuosly spam my spells which is what Invoker is about and it's just fun to mess around a few times!
This was an amazing post, though I generally don't like melee or carries this was a great read. I spent so much time though comparing the images to find the HoN equivalents of everything to know what the hell you were talking about. Epic writeup, thank you!
Disclaimer: This is from playing HoN, but I will explain everything using Dota equivalents as best I can. If somethings seems off it may be because of the differences between abilities and items, but I will try outlining it with an asterisk. Also this is not really viable or possible outside the often uncoordinated pub games.
I'm not really an active player, but what I have had most success and fun with is something that in HoN is really a non serious build. I love building me a Vol'Jin the Witch Doctor with a rank 5 Dagon*, and be an awesome mid to late game ganker. Now into more specifics on how I do this in the various stages of the game.
*In HoN it is called a Codex and is built differently using 2x Blades of Attack and a Staff of Wizardry.
I start off by buying two wards*, two Clarity Potions, a Tango and a Circlet of Nobility. After that I either go for Striders** or Phase Boots. Phase boots are nice because early Blades of Attack makes harassing heroes in my lane so much more effective. I can either opt for them or in HoN split them up to get an earlier Dagon.
*Wards only cost 50g in HoN. **Striders is a new item in HoN which increases your movement speed outside of combat dramtically, makes roaming so much better.
First thing I go for is the Paralyzing Cask, I find it amazing to either get the bloodlust or prevent it. Works wonders stopping two heroes chasing your teammate. I only put one point into it until quite later because of the way it isnt necessary for the many bounces early. I use it quite extensively though to help with ganks during the early game.
After that I focus mainly on skilling up Voodoo Restoration. I do this because now is the time where I don't do much but farm, and help keep my team(lane?)mate safe, Voodoo Restoration keeps us both at high health rather easy and keeps the costs of buying Tango or Healing Salve down for both of us.
When I can't upgrade Voodoo Restoration I upgrade Maledict to prepare for later when I have my Dagon. It won't really be used much until then because in HoN only magic damage triggers it, and I don't do much of that yet.
At the beginning I just do whatever I can to stop the bloodlust from happening to us in my lane. If I am teamed up with a hero with some good offensive abilities it may be very likely we will get the pick of one of the opposing heroes because of Paralyzing Cask. If the hero joining me is a carry I just focus on denies and major harass by poking at their heroes with my auto attack. If they don't stay back or are melee I will be extremely annoying. Otherwise I will focus more on last hitting. When I get Death Ward and hopefully have Boots of Speed I will go try to set up some ganks, but mostly focusing on the lane and not getting killed.
I will go first for the Phase Boots to help my chasing or running away, but also because of the extra attack damage. Then I will work towards the Dagon, and will hopefully get it before it enters the lategame, this often depends upon how many wards you have to purchase (because of counterwarding, not often seen in pub games), and how many times you have been ganked and your farm of course. In special situations I may split up my Phase Boots to get an earlier Dagon if there is potential for a teamfight soon, or there are a lot of gankable heroes around.
I now focus mostly on the Maledict and the Paralyzing Cask, because I will soon enter the gank a lot phase of this build, which is often late mid to early late game. Ofcourse I always upgrade Death Ward when I can, but now Voodoo Restoration wont be that useful unless we are pushing a lot.
Until Dagon is finished I mainly stay in lane farming unless needed elsewhere. Being really careful because now is the time to get a lot of gold and you don't want to be dying then. When I get Dagon I will flip over into the gank every vunerable hero I can find phase. Running around with Phase Boots and jumping on heroes using first the Maledict, then Paralyzing Cask and Dagon will leave most supports very nearly dead. Then you either finish them off with auto attacks or your ultimate. In this phase so long as you get them alone you will be a burst monster they wish they never met. The Dagon / Maledict synergy is amazing* because of the immense damage Dagon gives the Maledict DoT. Deathward is also freakin good now if you have a teammate with stun or similar near. Most heroes drop like flies, they often underestimate you and try to kill you, but the damage it brings is insane you will most often get them down if you jump them or with support if they jump you. Note that how succesful you are during this phase of the game will dictate how useful you will become later greatly. If you manage to gank loads of them you will be set up to keep doing it well into the lategame by upgrading you Dagon, and then be able to get items which will greatly increase your presence in teamfights later.
*Maledict equivalent in HoN is only affected by magic damage, but the damage the DoT does from magic damage dealt is greatly increased. It nearly doubles the damage your Dagon would have done.
You work all you can to get that Rank 5 Dagon, because it scales so well with Maledict*. Also note that many games end way before you actually reach that rank 5. After you've got it it depends on what you want need. Are there enemy ranged heroes with an easy magic stun waiting to stop your ultimate? Then getting the Black King Bar is a great choice. Otherwise Aganim's Scepter is a really good too. If you get Black King Bar and amazingly the game is still going on, definately go for Aganim's Scepter.
When both Maledict and Paralyzing Cask is maxed out get Voodoo Restoration. Now you will have decent enough mana regeneration to actually use this spell as well as your others often. It may very well be the thing that keeps you or your teammates alive! Get the attributes last.
Your playstyle now really depends on how they game is unfolding, and how well the previous phases of the game have gone. If you dominated through the mid game you may still run and gank like crazy, though watch out for their carries. Now they will most likely tear you a new one just by looking funnily your way. Most likely though you will have to huddle with you team and support them. Focusing on teamfights especially. How I like to do it is getting the Paralyzing Cask in to bounce like crazy among them, while trying to nuke one support through the Dagon / Maledict combo. Afterwards getting off a good Death Ward, from where it is in range of as many of them as possible, but where you are not too vunerable to be focused and crowd controlled. Seeing how the Death Ward does its damage through anything it may very well be the thing that allows your team to take out their carry!
Note: The writing style of this sort of shifted from explaining how I play something, to a sort of a guide. Also I for some reason keeps shifting between talking about me to you. That was unintended. I am in no way, shape or form able to write a guide, and have no skill what so ever to speak of. So what I'm saying is + Show Spoiler +
please don't flame me
Edit: This was supposed to be a short blurb, but damnit it was fun attempting to write somthing like this!
I love beastmaster, he was always my best hero, i typically go axes and pig/eagle 2ndary going on a ganking spree once i get level 6. I was always able to control multiple units easily so having an extra pig with slow, and bird to scout was always advantageous for me. My favorite item combo to use with him was going for a fast necromicon lvl 3. The timing of it almost always caused heavy punishment for cloak carries right as they were about to finish large components of their final item builds, and also helped against people who largely would get their lothar's around this time. That combined with the insane damage of the lvl 3 minions, the slow of the pig, and the ability to micro the 5 units all together made for a truly fearsome half orc half ogre =] The high int also meant i could be more friviolous using my axes to poke/farm lanes which was always good if you knew how to abuse the axe range, and tree cutting.
Nice guide! Especially cool since I tend to fail with Anti. lol (Hard carry is not typically my style)
Now, for me as a HoN player, Sand Wraith (or Spectre) is my favorite hero. A simple but effective hero, though admittingly boring at times due to the sheer amount of farm you require (Radiance is still a pain to farm regardless of game). I'll typically alternate between Spectral Dagger and Dispersion starting with Dagger and maxing it after I get level 1 Haunt. From there, max Dispersion for survivability and then I'll skill Desolate (again, a pause to get Haunt) to finish up before Stats. I'll start with 3 Ironwood Branches, 2 Tangoes, and a Hatchet and attempt to work my way to Vanguard (or at least Ring of Health) then Power Threads and spend the majority of the midgame rushing for that Radiance. From there, I'll work towards a Heart and Diffusal. My end late game tends to look like this: Treads, Heart, Radi, Diffusal, Butterfly, and Manta.
Every game I play with Spectre turns out to be a self troll fest since I play a rather passive style till I have my Radiance and I tend to fail to KS any hero kills, leaving me with a score of like 5/5/26. My friends think I'm play support when I go Spectre, that's how many assists in general I'll reap with this hero. Still, it's always nice for me to play.
Great Guide =), personally I have never gotten manta-style on Anti-mage but it is something I should start doing >_<
I used to play quite a bit of competitive DoTa in NA with CheckSix Gaming. While I have retired since, many of my old teammates have branched out into LoL, HoN and DoTa 2 (Such as EGYoda, EGDemon and EGSilent-Merc)
My favorite hero of all times is Magnataur.
I used to use 2 builds for him. One specifically for Leagues Games and Fun Games and the other specifically for Tournaments and Matches.
For "Fun" Build: Bottle Power Treads Blink Dagger Battlefury Mask of Madness Burize (Sell Bottle for Assault Cuirass) (Sell Power Treads for Boots of Teleportation)
This is strictly a pub stomp build. Magnataur was not built to be the best carry in the game (he has no scaling damage). But against lesser players and great early game farm/levels he is quite viable to be the funnest carry ever. Aggressively blinking into groups of 3-5 enemy heroes (being careful to get all stun/silence heroes) and using "Reverse Polarity" and turning on your "Mask of Madness" crushing heroes and creeps with 100% cleave (with a Battle Fury) could get you rampage if you were lucky. Wave was a great skill for early game harass and farm (in use with a Bottle). His key problem is that his ultimate has a very very long cooldown and if he does not initiate properly he can be almost useless, and die very easily.
For "Serious" Build:
His only real purpose in professional games (and sadly he was not very popular in professional DoTa) was his AoE stun. If he could get 3-5 heroes with a well timed and placed blink, he could turn the tide of any team battle. Unfortunately he was not a great laner and only a defensive solo at best (with even skill levels)
Bottle Power Treads Blink Dagger Assault Cuirass Heart of Tarrasque Shivas
One very funny and not so funny game I played with Magnataur was versus the old Scythe (known as Zenith) and was unfortunately elected to solo against Yamateh. Yes THE Yamateh. And it was at 5 in the morning (For MyM PRide #7 or 8?)
He played PoTm at mid and it was the hardest and most frustrating lane ever. I ended up begging for a gank. He went "Beyond Godlike" that game but because we had very good team battle AoE heroes ( I don't recall the specifics) we were able to keep up somewhat, although always pressured. We were both farming up throughout the game and near the 50 minute mark we knew one battle would decide the game. We roamed as five into their forest and saw the key moment as all five of their heroes were hugging their tower in a very very close proximity and they had no vision of us. I licked my chops in anticipation and got into range of blink. My captain yelled "GOGOGOGO" into ventrillo and I clicked the ground shift+Blink Dagger+Reverse Polarity...and...and...wtfMATE?I had ulted the ground without blinking. I had ulted nothing. My teammates were not aware. An arrow hit my face. One by one we were all hunted down, without My (Magnataur's) ultimate we had no chance. A quick gg and we lost the series 1-2. Later after the adrenaline I quickly realized that their "Zeus" used his ultimate in a very skillful and probably lucky timing and disabled my blink. We were crushed.
I still love you Magnataur. There is no better feeling than Reverse Polarity'ing five heroes and getting a Rampage. None.
Wow amazing guide, it really takes me back to when I first started playing and was addicted to guides.
I have gone through many phases of favorite heroes, I would say (despite my username) my all-time favorite hero is Mirana, Priestess of the Moon due to my fanatic passion for Vigoss and his Mirana. I spent many hours studying and emulating Vigoss, trying to perfect my PotM. Sorry Mangix, I still <3 u too.
I start off with a bottle and usually go mid. I can gank easily at lvl 6 with any rune. Using the combo: Elunes Arrow > Leap > Moonfall > attack, I can usually net an easy kill. The hardest part is landing the arrow. Next, I get 2 wraith bands and boots. Eventually I acquire boots of travel, and then attempt to get a butterfly. Boots of travel is extremely important for me because I need to be ganking and mobile. If they are spellcaster heavy, it may be safe to opt for a hood of defiance sooner or later. Mirana is such a versatile hero, with moonfall and elune's arrow, she has a ton of early gave burst damage not to mention range. She can also carry late game with decent dps. Her ult and leap allow her to escape from almost any sticky situations.
The most memorable moment with Mirana for me was when I was fighting a bounty hunter in the forest and we were trading blows quite evenly. At about 300 health each he shuriken tosses me and I am able to dodge it by timing my leap with the shuriken (exploiting the temporary invulnerability. He goes invisible and I arrow in a predicted escape route and net the kill. I love sniping with my arrow!
My favorite hero is Pudge, The butcher. I like everything chubby hero,especially when i can get that hook so hard that even the enemy applause for it.
Normally when i play Pudge i go for basic itens (ironwood branch, tangoes, clarity) for the beggining, then as soon as i get 600 gold i get my bottle ASAP,then i keep farming till i get my hood up, sometimes i get vanguard instead of hood,later i try to get phase boots and then i can go for tarrasque or complete pipe.
As for the skills i begin with Rot (fart), because level 1 hook has low range and damage, at level 2 i get hook and keep switching between rot(2) and hook(3) till level 6, then of course,i get Dismember. later i maximize hook, then rot, and lastly flesh heap and always getting Dismember as soon as i can get (level 6, 11 and 16)
The best memory that I have with the Butcher are when videos like, gosugamers top 10 and wodota top 10, started to go out and I was so amused with the Pudges highlights, but there was one highlights that caught my attention, that was a hook right after Magina blinked to that place, requiring the Pudge user to have amazing reflexes and knowledge about the blink range. I was so excited that I kept playing Pudge all the games until i could do it.
Then in a miraculously game, I finally did this amazing hook. Akasha blinked right in to the fog and I acted with pure reflexes, then suddenly a female Hero came along with the rope, then "FRESH MEAT"!!! and dismembered her. Oh such a glorious moment.
Very in depth guide. Did not know that Doom disabled spell shield, that is preeeetty rough. Anyway, on to my favorite hero: Rexxar, the Beastmaster
Item build: Tangos + courier Bottle Power treads Necronomicron Situational
Skill build: 1) Call of the Wild 2) Wild Axes 3) Wild Axes 4) Stats 5) Wild Axes 6) Primal Roar 7) Wild Axes then Call of the Wild -> Inner Beast -> Stats taking the Primal Roar when it's available.
I got into playing Rexar back in 6.xx when he was released and was incredibly imba. His nuke was really strong, Roar had a short cooldown and there was something stupid good about Call of the Wild...I want to say that the hawk was invisible all the time. Spawn hawk, send it into the woods, right click on an enemy hero so the hawk follows him, gank that hero, repeat. It was actually difficult not to rack up piles of kills with an invisible scout, a stun, a nuke and a slow. Plus, with call of the wild, you would get almost every rune against the lategame carry vengeful spirit enemy (rofl).
I played mostly pubs with some buddies of mine, and when I wasn't ganking faces off, I would get really pumped about the quillbeast, who I referred to lovingly as "pig". Whenever he was getting his 35% slow on on some poor soul I would yell "Gooooooooo piggggggggg!" as my allies raced across the map to frag that sucker, or, being pub noobs, go balls deep into enemy territory and die fighting 3v5. "Go pig" became our battle cry, eventually making it's way into real-life situations, such as the following: Once, a buddy of mine (who played DotA with us back in the day) had a bit too much to drink at the local bar, and decided to yell, "Goooooooo pigggggggg" as this girl is walking passed him. She makes a face like N'aix and storms off to her and talks to her friends, which are all way bigger than us. They do not look pleased. We try to nip our imminent beating in the bud by making my friend go apologize...which he fails at horribly. He can't really talk after 3 or 4 AMFs, but at one point during his mumbled failure of an apology I hear him say "pig" and I realize that it's time to go...now. We drag him out of the bar and he yells one last, "gooooooo pigggggggg" and everyone is pretty happy not to have gotten our asses kicked.
My favorite hero of all time would have to be Rikimaru, or SA as it is called as well.
Am no real competitive player, played alot of pub games over the Garena SEA servers, so am probably pretty crap but the reason I like Riki so much is I got my first team gank all-kill and first beyond godlike with it and then steal the roshan after another all-kill, all in the same game! Of course this was back in 6.4x - 6.5x so the max I could go was triple "triple-kill", and I could probably say riki was still quite too imba back then.
I didn't really follow the pro scene till as of late, but I usually go for an early SnY build, coupled with difusal and butterfly.
My favorite hero is Puck, the Faerie Dragon. This came from the War3 days, where the Faerie Dragon (aww, so cute!) was my favorite unit in the game (despite me playing Human). I even made a number of hero suggestions on the old DotA-Allstars.com forums using the Faerie Dragon model, but none of them were accepted.
Puck is one of the best support heroes in the game. Opening up the normal Courier/Branches/Clarity/Tangoes opening or Stick/Branches/Clarity/Tangoes opening is great. Puck offers a ton of lane presence to his lane partner early game. The Illusory Orb/Waning Rift combination does a lot of damage to enemy heroes early on, and the silence can lead to some clutch saves or serve as a good way to punish an overextending hero. I maximize Waning Rift first, with Illusory Orb at level 1 and Phase Shift at level 4. Illusory Orb is second, and Phase Shift last, naturally getting Dream Coil every opportunity I can.
The core build for me is either Power Treads or Arcane Boots, Blink Dagger, copious amounts of Wards and a Magic Wand. Late game items include Sheepstick and Skadi for fun times.
My best memory as Puck comes from a failed Roshan attempt by my team. Upon being scouted by the enemy team, I managed to Blink up to the Scourge secret shop with my Blink Dagger, hiding away in the trees before they realized I was there. After the enemy team took out two of my teammates, they turned around and started to Rosh. Still in the trees, I waited 5 seconds, flung my Illusory Orb into Roshan, Ethereal Jaunted to it, stole Roshan with Waning Rift and grabbed Aegis. I Phase Shifted before taking any damage, which allowed me to Blink back to my hiding position just in time, where a Scroll of Town Portal quickly whisked me away to safety.
I read the whole guide, i just want to say thanks for enlightening the noobs about always carrying a TP scroll, they do not realize how important this item is. Good guide overall, i've been DOTAing since 2003 and this is how i've always played AM too. Nice guide
Wow, amazing write-up. Anti-mage was always so much fun to play. :D
Favorite Hero:
Crixalis, Sand King
Ganking, team fight initiation, utility and usefulness to team.
I picked up sand king years ago and was instantly hooked. While I do and did play pretty much every other hero as well, when serious scrims were happening or anything of the sort, sand king was almost always my go to hero. I love the stun. I love the AoE pushing/defending. And I absolutely love epicenter. Being able to juke, dive, kill, and generally anything else I'd need to do, while having an absolute blast while doing it. Oh man, good times.
As for item build, opening items could always slightly vary, but usually I'd get blink dagger ASAP, depending on role needed or who I'm playing with I'd start with branches/bottle/tangos/gauntlet/mantle/ward/chicken. Boots during lane phase if I feel like I need it before blink. Hood of defiance, vanguard, obviously varies game to game. But yeah, general idea for me was to always get blink asap so I could immediately begin epicenter->blink and go from there.
As for a funny moment, me and my friends were playing some games and I was at secret shop buying. Mind you, this was some very low level game, no warding, no serious play at all. Something happened and I accidentally hit the key to start epicenter .. oh boy, what do I do?! Since I was wasting it anyway, decided I'd blink to roshan. What happens next? 4 kills within a matter of seconds, completely unintentional. Me and my friends were dying on ventrilo, good times.
btw i disagree with one thing, it's the order in which threads comes in. i recommend getting boots -> vanguard -> yasha -> then threads. the benefits from getting yasha earlier is greater than getting threads. early game damage dealing will be more with getting in, get a few hits to deal damage with mana burn (your primary attack isn't the main "attack" here, that's why you don't get pure-damage items first), then getting it out back. yasha has the extra ias, ms and agility that i feel is slightly better than getting threads first, despite thread being a situational item when used correctly.
also, magic wand should be situational, since if there isn't much spellcasters then i'd rather invest in a flask and make use of blink to heal quickly. (unless they changed this in dota 2, that is)
My favourite hero would be techies. Yes, techies lol. (it's still there in dota2, right? :o )
People think that for a hero to be strong, it needs either a good support skill or a powerful damage-dealing attack. Heroes like Vengeful Spirit, Earthshaker, Chen or even Omniknight comes to my mind. However, few people realise the full potential of techies.
Techies are one of the most versatile and party-friendly hero, and if played properly, it is one of the strongest heroes in the game. People generally equate techies to suicide techies, which I feel is the most improper way to use techies. Instead, techies should be used to gain not only lane, but map control as well. And this can be done without going away from your lane for 5 minutes, planting mines at the runespot and hoping someone will walk past it and die. There is no need to sacrifice your laning time, as well as potential experience that could have been gained.
Generally, I start off with 2x tangos, a clarity pot and 3x ironwood branches. Early game wouldn't be about suicide (unless absolutely necessary), instead using land mines to last hit groups of creeps (not just a single creep) and deal damage to nearby heroes, if possible. Notice which creeps are getting hit first, then control your attack such that the rest of the creeps get even damage dealt. Once a majority of the creeps are more or less half health, plant a mine, watch your gold go up by over 120.
Techies have paper hp, so it's important that it can survive. Its last resort is suicide, of course, but you wouldn't want to use that too much since it gives a lot of free farming time for your opponent. Instead, what I get is euls (i believe this is a different name now? since they removed guinsoo's name as well from the scythe), which not only provides you with some additional damage for last hitting and mana regen, but a survivability tool in the form of cyclone. mid to late game, this item allows you to deal extra damage by making use of cyclone and remote mines.
The next item that techies should aim to get is a bottle, capturing runes whenever he can. It also provides techies with some instant mana and health regen. Instead of arcane boots, one should aim for boots of travel after getting euls and bottle. It allows fast mobility between lanes, planting remote mines in anticipation of low-hp heroes that may come too close to towers, while also allowing you to bottle rune from the other lane. In short, getting boots early allows you to have lane control and fast creep clearing anywhere, anytime. Not only that, a well-executed surprise suicide in the middle of a fierce battle can score you a couple of kills.
Following it, I get guinsoo for the extra disable and mana regen, increasing survivability and less dependency for techies to go back to heal. I then get blink dagger and/or manta style, which depends on the opponent's hero combination, going for the former if there are some thick-hp heroes that deals a lot of hurt and would be the type you would want to avoid, and the latter in the late game. Usually I get blink dagger first, because it gives me greater versatility, and unlike other heroes, techies does not require much damage-dealing items. I complete my build with a diffusal blade, which not only provides purge that can help you get kills and also escape from heroes chasing you down, but when used with manta style, deals a lot of mana burn, a useful talent toi have.
For the build, I swap between mines and suicide, getting a stasis trap after maxing mines. This will be used to detect and stall potential gankers that attempt to gank you unnoticed, except they aren't. After maxing mines and getting a point in stasis, I get remote mines and max suicide, followed by stats until I can get another level in remote mines, followed by more stats until level 16, maxing out remote mines, then maxing out stasis traps. The reason for getting stats and not maxing out stasis is that you don't need the extra few second of stasis in mid-game, and in mid-game, each heroes' existence and activity isn't as important as late game. The extra stats gives better hp, mana, mana regen and additional damage, which is much better than investing in 3 more points of stasis trap early on.
The best memory of me using techies was when I actually went 19-0, albeit in a public game on garena. With a few well positioned mines early game, I managed to get a fast lead in gold and got my items rather early. I pulled through till late game without using a single suicide lol. Late game, the opponent's group all pushed through the mid lane in hoping of ending it, because our team lost two heroes. However, they did not know that I had planted around a dozen remote mines at the first tower. As they pushed the tower, I.. did not detonate them. I let them push. Once they reached the second tower, I planted a remote mine and instantly exploded it, dealing some damage and scaring all of the heroes back... yep, right into the mines.
Well written. I really like your and Bumblebee's blog series intoducing DotA to new players. Looking forward to more.
My favourite hero is by far Furion.
What I go for depends very heavily on what my team needs, and what the other team's flaws are. Regardless, if I'm not jungling, I almost always go: + Show Spoiler +
1 - Sprout(1) 2 - Teleport(1) 3 - Teleport(2) 4 - Treants(1) 5 - Teleport(3) 6 - Wrath of Nature(1) 7 - Teleport(4) 8 - Sprout(2) 9 - Treants(2) 10 - Treants(3) 11 - Wrath of Nature(2) 12 - Treants(4) 13 - Sprout(3) 14 - Sprout(4) 15 - Stats 16 - Wrath of Nature (3) and so on
If jungling, I'll start off with Treants->Teleport->Treants and proceed depending on whether my team requires early ganks or not.
In terms of items, I usually start off with a couple of branches, a chicken/wards if it is required of me, and fill the rest with suitable healing items for whatever lane I'm in. If I'm jungling, I'll get one or two clarity potions so I don't run out of mana for my treants.
Again, depending on what is required of me, I might go for an early dagon if I'm farming well, or rush a sheep stick if we need a good disable quickly. If my team's carry isn't farming well, I might get a quick hand of midas and go for a more heavy DPS build instead (orchid, followed by sheep stick usually).
Furion is my favourite hero because of his free TP that barely has a 20 second (@lvl 4)cool down which allows him to push lanes very quickly even if the enemy is knocking on your front door. If they don't deal with my pushes well, the outcome of the game could quickly turn in our favour.
I recall one of my first games playing Furion on BNet East, I was able to rush a dagon 5 in 15-20 minutes with a few kills and a few deaths. Once I got my dagon 5, all I did was teleport around the map ganking everyone in sight with my dagon 5 and carried our team to victory with the final score of 28-5. I don't claim this to be an accomplishment, since it was just some pub games, but I hadn't played very much DotA at the time and it was probably my best game up till then.
Later on, I continued to play Furion and realised that his teleport (much like a Tinker with BoT) basically meant that I could push a lane quickly, and be back to defend my base before the enemy got there. Every game I play with Furion feels so satisfying because he is so versatile and can adapt to fill any role the team requires, which is why he is my favourite hero.
Interested in getting access to the DotA2 beta? Bumblebee, the generous man with the keys, is looking to share the happiness! For a chance to get into the DotA 2 beta, simply write a short blurb about your favorite hero, and the item build / skill build you generally go for. For bonus points, talk about a humorous/memorable game you played with said hero.
I don't have a favourite hero, but my favourite item is The Divine Rapier. It is about as risk/reward as an item can be and I loved how the text-title colour was black.
So one memorable game, I was Lion, picked because of his great natural disables. I farmed up very well, because of the easy ks'ing abilities of finger, and we had a very good team of early game casters/pushers, that managed to gain a big early game dominance.
So I decided to have some fun, and my item build was: boots, mom and divine.
It was amazingly fun, and by then we had already completely pushed two lanes. Getting overconfident though, and hanging around their fountain alone for too long, I inevitably got hardcore ganked, lost my divine to their Nai'x (This was back when Nai'x had the long as magic immunity ulti and you could build your own aegis). And being a team of intelligence heroes we stood zero chance and got complete and utterly wiped.
Apparently it was my fault we lost or something? (I take back that it was a good team)
I'm pretty sure vanguard was not around back then, and that would of made all the difference were it the situation today. Or since divines are cheaper, maybe another one or two would of helped.
EDIT: Just so maybe I am just a bit more valid for the beta draw, my skill build I'd assume, was: max impale at Lv7, max hex at Lv 9, finger at 6,11,16, max stats at 21, max drain at 25. Besides going divine/mom for lion, I'd probably go dagon in non-proper games.
On November 02 2011 12:00 thethingexe wrote: So one memorable game, I was Lion, picked because of his great natural disables. I farmed up very well, because of the easy ks'ing abilities of finger, and we had a very good team of early game casters/pushers, that managed to gain a big early game dominance.
So I decided to have some fun, and my item build was: boots, mom and divine.
It was amazingly fun, and by then we had already completely pushed two lanes. Getting overconfident though, and hanging around their fountain alone for too long, I inevitably got hardcore ganked, lost my divine to their Nai'x (This was back when Nai'x had the long as magic immunity ulti and you could build your own aegis). And being a team of intelligence heroes we stood zero chance and got complete and utterly wiped.
Apparently it was my fault we lost or something? (I take back that it was a good team)
I'm pretty sure vanguard was not around back then, and that would of made all the difference were it the situation today. Or since divines are cheaper, maybe another one or two would of helped.
This reminds me of the very first DotA game I ever played was an in house with my friends who were all a lot more experienced than me. I chose Lion because he looked kinda cool, and someone on the other team chose Anti-Mage. My team told me that Anti-Mage was the bane of all INT heros and that I'd never kill him. As soon as I hit level 6, I first blooded him. Felt great.
I didn't know a guide was necessary to play this hero.
Edit:
The guide was well-written overall. I'm assuming that you're guide was intended for pub play, but even in pub games antimage is NOT a hero that forces your team to play 4v5 till 30 minutes in a game. In fact, essentially none of the carries used in the current metagame should be played that way. It's very easy to just tp over to the nearest tower and join in the team fight. The few creep waves that you miss are not worth risking your entire team being wiped out, and having two or more towers lost as a result.
Antimage has quite strong early to mid game potential due to the strength of mana break, and this can easily be abused in pubs.
Also, you probably know this, but picking antimage when playing in a pub game, or among friends, is generally seen in bad favor because he is considered to be one of the most imbalanced heroes in this version.
My favorite dota hero is by far Furion. I love the farming ability from his ult, treents, and port. I love the ability to support your team and help gank anywhere at almost any time, I love the ability to push lanes by teleporting around and pushing with treents.
For skills, I put 1 point in sprout and max teleport first, treents 2nd, and then sprout, getting ult at lvls 6, 11, and 16. For starting items I'll try and get 2 sets of tangos and 4 twigs, or if I'm buying the chicken for the team then chicken, 2 sets of tangos, and I think 1 or 3 twigs.
For items I try and get hand of midas as soon as possible, if I'm in a lane where I'm not in much danger and can rack up the creep kills I go for midas before boots of speed, but get boots of speed first if I have to. After midas and boots of speed I go straight for ags, it has hp/mana and stats which are all nice, and makes the ult absolutely amazing for farming and helping with ganking and team fights. After ags I go for sheep stick, helps with damage and adds some hp, and sheep is very usefull. After that I try and get a manta for the stats and images to help with fights even more.
My most memorable game with Furion would have to be about a month or so ago. I was in bottom lane, my teammate that was in my lane was creep pulling, and the 2 opponents in our lane were being agressive, they both ended up tower diving me and I got a double kill off of them, which got me hand of midas by 7 minutes. After that I just played normally and farmed when possible, once it was clear that we were winning I decided to have some fun by starting to KS one of my friends with ult. Whenever I saw him about to kill someone I would ult some creeps across the map and watch it bounce towards the hero he was killing across the map for the kill. After a few times he started getting angry on vent, it was pretty funny.
This badass right here. Beginner friendly, and I started to play DotA seriously after this.
The moment I played Lich, I was hooked. Practically infinite mana? Check. A nuke with relatively low cooldown? Check. I learnt to play cautiously with this hero, and when I learnt that there's a courier, I could stay in lane for the whole laning phase.
Some... or actually most of you guys are going to disagree with me, but I tend to max Dark Ritual first when I solo, then Nova. I find that having more mana early is much better compared to the 150 damage difference between Level 2 and Level 4 Nova, mainly because of Nova. I often go one Frost Armor before maxing stats, as I'm rather selfish and thus prefer stats.
Phase boots, no question. It's ridiculously useful and I get it for most STR and INT heroes that I play. I'll get a Point Booster first, then Mekansm. If there's someone else in the team getting Mekansm, I'll skip it and get a Blink Dagger or Aghanim's Scepter, either is fine really. I avoid farming after this point, since I prefer fragging heroes in DotA, but I'll get Guinsoo's if I do get that much gold.
As for my most memorable game...
Yes, that Lich player is me. I didn't show it in the game or on Skype, but I was pretty damn happy with myself, and it made sure that Lich will forever be my favorite hero.
Pretty good Anti-Mage guide overall. I personally play the shit out of Magina and love how fluid his play-style is when you have good experience playing as him. In particular, usually if I can play cowardly enough to farm my RoH before level 5, the game just starts to get exponentially easier. I especially like playing as AM because he gets in and out of fights fairly easily, meaning that you don't need to be in the front-lines when the fight starts, nor be left behind when a fight turns out poorly.
Sadly enough, you took my favorite hero Flamewheel, but alas I can always mention one of the most baller heroes in Dota. Phantom lancer is by far the best hero to have in a pub game imo. I am generally the kind of guy that gets into a public game and expects to win on my own. I simply refuse to lose a game that could be won (usually defined by how bad the opposing team is). So in order to facilitate my need for winning, I go with PL, the most annoying hero to fight in Dota. PL is amazing because he is a 1 man army, he can take down an entire team or lane, on his own. As such, I sit my pretty blue ass in a side lane and farm almost all game, while my teammates generally choose to die repeatedly and talk trash (in particular about how I never help them). My build has a rather steep build up, but once you get going, its difficult not to snowball into steamroller mode: off the bad: stout shield + 3 branches + tango + salve (I additionally pick up a Queling blade once I get some money in the lane, why? Because I do not intend to leave laning mode ever..) Early on: RoH + vitality booster = Vanguard, treads, magic stick The Uphill struggle: sacred relic ->radiance The tides are turning: Manta Style (you would be surprised how quickly this follows up radiance)
Why? PL has a pretty girly hero early game that is just asking to be someone's property. In order to put the manbeast on the right track, one needs to have 2 abilities on hand: 1. a harassing ability, 2. A get out of jail free card. 1 is facilitated by lance, which is pretty amazing considering its damage, slow, and the free illusion. Dopplewalk is your "I wanna be a weenie" ability, that lets you hit an opponent and run immediately, only leaving an image that makes your opponent think that he has you right where he wants you. The stats are taken to support the insane mana cost of spirit lance and dopplewalk, and to make you less frail until you get your vanguard going. Why no juxtapose? Because juxtapose is only as good as your hero is standalone; early game you have like NO HP, 4 of you running around with like 500 hp is as good as useless. Phantom edge is also not that useful without images, so you might aswell not get it until you are stable.
12-16 jux/jux/jux/jux/phantomedge
This is the point where I start to care about whats going on in the game. In general by this point my team has about 4 towers left on the map, the 2 by the throne/three, and the 2 that were from my lane (no one in their grandmother wants to mess with PL for an extended period of time). The tides of war begin to sharply turn as PL gets set up and takes manta, he is able to push any lane alone and destroy it without question. PL isn't an unstoppable force yet, but he is beyond the point of being a simple menace. Juxtapose + manta allows PL to become an 8 man army in a matter of seconds. Notice the 8 PLs almost make up for my almost non-existent team. I am are generally behind regarding towers and pushing, but this is the point in the game where 3-5 seconds in any lane and its pushed up to my opponent's base instantly. So the game is beginning to fall in my hands, I just need to seal the deal.
How my team, COUGH I, win the game: Butterfly Heart Travels AC/2ndHeart
Final build: Travels, Radiance, Manta, Bfly, Heart, Heart/AC
The butterfly and travels are the game breakers, while the rest just make PL impossible to deal with. PL is only as strong as his mobility, and as such he needs to be in every lane all the time, and buying stockpiles of TP scrolls just doesn't cut it at this point. Butterfly is extremely important as both PL and his images can duplicate (18% (lvl 16) for him, and 7% for his images) based on their attacks, meaning that the more they attack, the more likely you are to never have less than 6 active images. In addition to fueling PLs undying need to replicate, Bfly gives him more durability with the evasion, and do mad DEEPS.
My experience: In general when I play PL and can get over the farm needed to setup, I don't usually lose afterwards. PL's farm rate grows to insane levels after radiance, making him extremely difficult to contain. Once PL is fully saturated, he is near impossible to stop when he is pushing, 3k hp images with 20 armor and roughly 20% change to be revived is just not feasible to fight.
I once had a pub game where my team of 5 was up by 25 kills (I only had 3) and 6 towers when I obtained my radiance and most of my manta. The opposing team saw that they could not win, so 3 of them left, which warranted a person to change teams. Our team was just considering to end the game and save some time, but I decided to be noble and help the poor teamless guys out and switched sides. My new teammates were both seriously under-leveled and under farmed, and we were 1 good push from losing, but I knew the manly blue lion was not down without a fight. After quickly finishing my manta I was able to push all three lanes while my teammates tried to farm in the jungle. I managed to take down 4 towers and make a nice coffer of gold. I spent all of my gold on a butterfly, tp scrolls, and a vitality booster. I was at the point where the opposing team decided that they had to push and push hard or they would end up dying to the manliness of PL. The opposing team tried and tried and tried to push any of the lanes, but the minute they started push, I would have 2 lanes at their front door, and they have to branch off. I soon gained enough gold for travels, with the soon to come completion of heart, I would be unstoppable. With concentrated teamwork the enemy team push the middle lane hoping for an end-all push, but the push never came. Each time they would fight me, and I had 4 images up, I would manage to kill 2 of the weaker members, and the rest would fall into my hands easily. I kept fighting them endlessly and soon enough I had racked up 18 kills and the last hit on their world tree. I had nearly won a game, switched teams, and beat my own fed team with a single hero, no hero is as baller as PL.
Ive had this troll build it was full bashers on clingz i would hook them with ult get close use the spell that makes a wall around u and the other player and activate the ability that does damage and stunts.
I would perma lock them into a stunt it was incredibly funny i made so many people rage in pubs they called me a cheap bastard, a no skill newbie it was so funny.
Once upon a time, in the rowdy, sweaty, PC Bangs in a certain South East Asian country, there sat a silent teenager, sipping his can of Coke staring intently at the loading screen, daydreaming of how he will own the game and ride off into the sunset in Lina's arms.
-ap, he types in chat, and I click eagerly over to the Scourge side in search of my favourite hero.
My favourite indeed, for what can possibly be more exciting than facing the world with nothing but a pair of crappy shoes, a couple of GG branches, and bottle or two of clean, refreshing, spring water, and then proceeding to try to earn 3800 (alternatively, infinite) gold for your first main item with a gimped attack animation that hits about an hour after your magical wand fires that magical bolt of magical electricity?
Yep, I like Razor. The rush of electric energy through your spine when you first kill a fleeing enemy by just floating cheerfully alongside him for the lolz of every other player, when you call out to your friend sitting next to you to ignore his own screen and watch you take down a whole creep wave with a haphazard chain lightning/Radiance/Ulti salad, it's... it's... monstrous.
Of course, given that you have a time machine to play Dota before Razor became a boring, cast-this-spell hero, you should grab those starters, take a friend, go bot, get chain lightning and that speed and regen skill up ASAP, farm a 3800 Relic, polish it into a golden, shining Radiance with conspicuous amounts of TLC (or gold), and run around away from everyone to make more money than you know how to spend.
Finally, you could buy crazy items with that money, but you'd still be weaker than a 1.3 Warp Prism, do so at your own risk.
Wow, that was a crap guide, you'd probably die if you picked Razor anyway because you will be ganked and you can't run, so a better guide isn't exactly useful. I just wanted a key for Dota 2.
I loved playing Priestess of the Moon, going for SnR Butterfly MKB as a core. I usually like to be late game carry with POM. Nothing is more satisfying at hitting an enemy hero with that stun arrow. NOTHING. ok, ok maybe soloing axe in the middle of the forest with luna's ult.
Nice guide, may I request one for Skeleton King as he is my favorite. Straight forward and easy to play as because he has 3 passives abilities. He is an excellent hero for new players and we are going to have a lot of them when dota 2 is released.
Techies is my favorite hero. Straight to bloodstone then sceptre.
I've had so many first blood kills with mines (bot lane sentinel top lane scourge) it's almost not even funny. One time I was laning with a Tiny, I put up mines out of the way, stood on them, and he tossed this magebane right onto me, he died. I leveled up suicide. Magebane tp's back, tiny stuns him, I suicide on him, he dies. Then he leaves :D GG
It was indeed a cold and miserable day on my first game, one day I will never forget. You could barely see outside the window, it was fogging up and chills constantly ran down my spine. I was playing with no namers but that wasn't a big deal, as I'm no hot shot myself.
The picking began, and the plethora of heroes to choose from is just, well absurd. The combinations are endless, the characters are all so unique and different, and each ability affected the game like no other. I was just going to wait it out......but I found him. There he stood, the most feared hero in all of Dota2, he looked at me with his vicious eyes and I forgot everything in my life up to this point. He was the feared, the unstoppable, the immaculate "Doom Bringer'. I had researched this being previously, and all I could figure out was that he was also called Lucifer, Leader of the Doomguard attack force.
There was one line that caught my eye, which read 'Lucifer takes no prisoners and makes sure those who presevere through his wrath die by the agonizing and burning pain of doom itself'. This is how I was going to play this beast, relentlessly, like an immortal, a god.
The game loaded and I was on my way. I bought recommended items as that was all I knew at the time, and I was off laning. My abilities were relentless, and pounded each and every foe if they stepped an inch too close. My blade was feared by all in my lane, but eventually it was time to participate in team fights. My attacks were astonishing, my powers gave the enemies chills, and my ultimate ability rendered any hero of my choice useless. I was playing Doombringer, my all time favorite hero, and doing my best for the team.....
I finished 1/17 that game, with 4 assists, but I can assure you, that one person I killed will never forget the time they were slain by the one, the only, DOOMBRINGER!
This is a spectacularly thorough and thoughtful guide. I'm to see content like this and I really hope TL becomes home to more members of the community like you.
I do have to disagree with Necronomicon though...it's a strange item to get on AM even with invis heroes on the map.
I would put obsidian destroyer in foes as in the pro matches i have seen them matched up lately(mostly sea games) he absolutely gets shit on lategame by him as he bypasses spell shield armor, am has no real int so ult wrecks him and od passive keeps him from really even losing mana.
That is like the most longest Hero guide I have ever read. LOL Very informative as well. Well now for the not as good as your guide blurb.
My favourite hero is Juggernaut!!!! My skill build is: spin/dance/spin/dance/spin/ulti/spin/dance/spin/stats/ulti/stats x4/ulti/ healing ward x4/ STATS finish My Item build: BattleFury/BootsOfTravel/Butterfly/AssaultCuirass/HOT or Hood of Defiance.
Most memorable moment was when we went to gank the opposing team, my team was already well infront of me while I was lagging behind, my team then went to attack all out, but they only killed one hero and left the rest at low health, then I go in and cast my ulti which immediately killed the remaining heroes. Well nothing special but I really enjoyed that moment
Favorite hero definitely for all the crazy games with him, just you bulldozing through the enemy base with armlet on, stunning people and wishing for those high crits while not giving a damn about your own health pool dropping down rapidly.
Who else but King Leoric.
Favorite build was of course
SB,VA,SB,CS,SB,Ult,SB,CS,VA,CS,Ult,CS,VA,VA, then of course 3rd rank ulti @ 16 and rest into attributes
I usually started my game with the typical shield/loggers, 3x branches and tango&pot
Wand when I could for some emergencies or just for mana replenish
Got myself power treads next and after that Armlet
Already being a str hero with armlet and str treads, I had a good amount of health and could focus on my damage for my next item, I usually made stygian desolator as my next item (I simply liked it, and since you already have a source of life steal, I could focus on a damage orb.) Now that I had built my damage item, I could focus more on the tanky side of the hero, of course this too could be accomplished without forgetting about the damage side of the hero by building Assault Cuirass, Good amount of Armor and Attack speed, asp aura was a good bonus for you and your team but the idea behind it was the debuff aura, synergizing well with stygian and getting a -11 armor on my targets, making even tanky heroes like dragon knight, centaur warchief, etc... feel somewhat squishy for me.
I still have 2 empty item slots left (sold wand & shield/loggers at this point of the game since mana pool will have grown a lot because of +attributes) for more str/survivability items which I most often used them for, HoT and BKB for some more str/dmg, usually ending up having +3k hp and critting for ~800.
This build often resulted in some crazy games with me going rampage and diving the enemy team with more than often being ahead in farm already and just rampaging through the agi/int heroes of the enemy team, I could solo kill ~2 of the enemy heroes before they killed me, and the rest went down or fled after reincarnating and unleashing hell upon them again.
Much fun and laughs were shared with the pain train that Leoric is, I'm still devastated from the fact that S2 didn't port leoric into HoN, I'd still be playing the game if they had (Amun-Ra just doesn't feel the same).
EDIT: Of course, don't forget to have your TP's with you and switch your Power Treads into Boots of Travel in the late game! You don't want to lose to backdooring bitches.
I once had a game with Rattletrap and I just kinda predicted a rocket on a guy that would surely fail. but he wend to the shop and bought something be4 going and then I hit him in the face :D.
Nice job on the guide. ALthough i only played HoN i still have a favorite DotA hero:
Tiny!
Go solo mid bottle first. This build is very dependent on runes though so if your team doesnt get a rune ward at 1 you might consider a stoud and standard regen. Pebbles is a ridiculously strong solo mid and once you hit level 5 and can do your combo racking in kills is easy. Haste or invis runes pretty much guarantee you a kill everytime you get them. Standard items at the beginning of mid-game should be: Bottle, Power treads, Blink, toss in a talisman or too for bigger manapool. After that you get whatever tanky style support items your team needs, AC, Shivas, or even hex or cyclone are all good.
For the skillbuild you max stun over toss. I usually dont take the ult until they've both been maxed. This gives you that ridiculous burst early.
The reason i love this hero is for the hilarious one-shot potential. If you get an early level advantage mid coupled with a reasonably fast blink(10-15 minutes) the map is just yours. Single out their squishies and keep blinking on them with the stun-toss combo and laugh maniacally as they die within your combo. ø
I've had so many good tiny games. Me and a friend used to go tiny/lion if we were tired of losing. Pretty much guaranteed kill at lvl 3 against any lane.
On November 02 2011 11:22 seraphe wrote: Huh. AM didn't change much at all, huh? (Though I prefer the Illidan model to the mohawk guy). The question is... IS HIS NAME STILL MANGINA?
Also, stack bashers #1 build ^^
MANGINA, the PANTYMAGE.
The double bASSher build to go along with it was redonkulus. (Treads, Fury, Double Basher, Bfly and Curiass)
Favourite hero? Got to be the good old Brewmaster. Forget abilities, forget roles in the game. Nothing in the game makes me smile more than seeing a giant panda waddle around the map, bringing Pandamonium, and declaring things to be grizzly :D
But seriously, I used to build him mostly for the ulti, then a tank later on:
- Thunderclap - Drunken Haze - Thunderclap - Drunken Brawler (a lot of people get stats, but I like to crit more :D) - Thunderclap - Primal Split - Thunderclap - Drunken Brawler - Drunken Brawler - Drunken Brawler - Primal Split - Drunken Haze - Drunken Haze - Drunken Haze - Stats - Primal Spirit - Stats
Items would normally be rushing for a blink dagger (after boots and normal consumables), then going for a scepter, because who doesn't want better pandas :D
Then the massing would begin - Manta - Necro
7 units, 5 of them crazy pandas, bringing the pandamonium
I'm a drow player. I played dota from v6.53 about 1 1/2 Year. Never played ESL just some fun matches with four of my friends through IRC.
I would start with shoes, tree healer (forgot the name I think tango or something), and Branches. I would then go for -> Haste -> agi belt = treads of agility
then I go for Lothar's Edge to hit out of the shadow and survive ganks. After that farming gets really easy and I try to get enough together for a Yasha -> Manta Style. After that I get a Hyperstone for more health and then proceed with Butterfly, burizia.
My Skillpoints were like: - Aura - Frostarrow - Aura - Frostarrow - Aura - Marksmanship - Aura
After that: If they have many casters ->silence / stats / Frostarrow or if not -> stats / Frostarrow / silence
I think my coolest moment is something no one beside my dota / wow / starcraft2 Buddys will understand I mean it was always so loud in our vent But maybe when I can save the ass of my buddys with a well placed silence is always an awesome moment More rewarding then killing the enemy hero
Sorry that I don't have "this" story! Would be happy about a beta key.
I'm a DotA noob but I have put time into HoN and my favourite heroes are Tiny And Behemoth (don't know DotA name). I usually start off with stats on tiny with +3 str and +3int items (they build blood chalice later on in HoN) and work up to a bottle. then I get striders (again don't know dota name) and work up to blink dagger. From there hilarity usually ensues!
Skill build: Stun + toss till maxed, and then get other 2 skills. Innovative, i know.
For behemoth I start out some stats and mana potions building him as a support. I get striders, blink dagger, and mana ring all the while picking up wards and setting up kills. Probably the one of the coolest heroes because blocking off people trying to get away always makes you feel like a bad ass.
Skill build: I get his fissure and heavyweight (the passive) and get ult at six, after that you max fissure and the passive and put points into the AoE melee range damage boost.
i've always had a thing for fast heroes, and while i played dota he was the fastest hero available. he could gank pretty well with stun+blink, had insane damage with mirror images + he was a str hero so I could tank if no one else was available. needles to say, i ended up tanking most of the time, but it was fun as hell because he wasn't the standard tank type because of his speed and insane ganking abilities <3
Oh whoops somebody reminded me I didn't set a deadline... Um let's say 48 hours after the guide was posted. So November 4th 4:12 KST is the cutoff. Will edit into OP as well.
hi guys i dont have a favorite hero but i have these phases where i highly favor one hero in most instances for a while viper has been my new guy for a while now because hes just ownage and you feel pro when you use him you like orb walk and gank and get kills all the time
my skill build is the orb thing and nethertoxin and ult at 6 and then whatever his passive is and then stats cuz thats all thats left my item build for pubs is rush phase boots then aghs then a travels then a butterfly then a bloodstone or bfury my item build for not pubs is stout shield consumables branches then bottle then phase boots then vanguard then force staff then manta then necrobook cuz its just a good item then a bloodstone or bfury
if someone takes my solo mid i just leave and if someone fbs me i rage buy back and tp mid
bonus points: this one game i played viper and i went like 50-0
Pretty neat guide, although there is one portion I would like to point out is rather ineffective, and that is going Boots Vanguard Battlefury Manta.
Vanguard is an awesome early-mid game item that gives you Regen and Life. That it blocks damage is a pretty sweet bonus. It is pretty much standard to get for most melee heroes.
Battlefury is an item that needs to be gotten as early as possible. It is more of a farming item than damage item, and you are aiming for late game items with it. Hence, the earlier you get it, the more you earn from it. With AM's Blink, it allows you to clear neutrals at an alarming high speed. However, going Battlefury first leaves you with really paper HP. This leaves you with a dilemma. Would you delay your Battlefury with Vanguard, or rush it and risk farming at low HP? Furthermore. after your Vanguard and 2nd item, it is usually the period where you need to participate in fights. Vanguard + Battlefury just doesn't give you good DPS as compared to say Vanguard + Manta.
There is a simple answer to this. Battlefury is simply not an item for every AM user. To get it or not depends on the game. With whichever item build you start with, it is generally understood that the first item you purchase is a Ring of Health. Following that, you have to look at the overall picture of the game.
1. Are you having totally harassment free farming, and you believe you will continue to have such farming for a period of time? 2. Are your teammates doing decently enough that you can be a non-factor for early-mid game?
If it is yes, feel free to convert your Ring of Health directly into Battlefury. The rationale is that if (1) exist, it means that your team mates have successfully made space for you to farm freely, and you are seldom in a treat of dying. There is no reason to boost your HP at the moment. If (2) exist, similarly you have the space. Map control belongs to your team too. Only reason you could possibly die is through well executed smoke ganks, which with your superior levels (you have been free farming all this while), you could survive the gank. AM has Blink and Spell Shield, meaning he has pretty decent survivability if his spider sense is good.
After your Battlefury, there is no reason to go for Vanguard. Vanguard is an early-mid game item, so you should not waste gold on it. If you need HP, get just a Vitality Booster (you have Regen from Battlefury already). Vitality Booster is a component for a future Heart. If the dominance is so great, a straight Ultimate Orb is also good, because you get your Manta out even faster. After that, further items are pretty standard.
If (1) and (2) does not exist, generally you should avoid Battlefury. Your low HP does not allow you to reap the full benefits of that item, because you shouldn't even be able to it out early in the first place. If you are somehow dominating your lane with some kills, whereas elsewhere your teammates are not, it is still advisable to go Vanguard first, because it allows you to participate in fights earlier. Your Vanguard build extension is pretty much standard. Manta is the item to go.
If I'm playing a gank AM (pubs of course), my build is Treads PMS Vlad Basher. Usually it is enough to dominate pubs (:
Also to add, AM was picked as the main carry in The International in many games. One reason for this is the hero pool. There was a lack of push oriented carries (Broodmother, Syllabear, Lycan) that disrupts AM's farming.
====================================================================================== Contest Portion Well I have mentioned what I wanted to share on the thread. Now I hope to win a possible Beta Key (:
My favourite Hero is Obsidian Destroy (OD), because it so happens to be the hero I'm best in. It is a very strong hero to use in pubs because of these reasons:
1. It is a carry that is strong in early, middle, and late stages of the game. 2. It dominates most solo mid if used properly 3. It does not matter if your opponent is in-house or stacked teams (meaning they know each other), as long as you maintain your dominance in mid lane, and your teammates do not overly feed (they can feed, but not too much), you can win the game. 4. BKB counters you. But if they are DPS heroes, you can get a Ghost Scepter to negate them during the duration. After the duration, they have to run from you.
My build is generally the standard OD build. It revolves solving OD's 2 main problems: HP/Regen and mobility. I usually build Treads Wand Meka ForceStaff, followed by Hex (rarely Shiva's next). OD does not need that much +Intel to deal damage early on, and OD has unlimited Mana to support Meka. ForceStaff can be skipped for a faster Hex if you are having a good game. Sometimes Blink is useful. But while Agha has good bonuses for OD, there are many other items that outclass it for its price. BKB is a situational item.
Skill build is Astral Essence Astral Essence Astral Ulti Essence Essence Orb Orb Ulti Orb Orb Stats Stats Ulti. Ulti can be delayed if you have no use for it early on, and Orb can be gotten early on if required. Generally rank 3 Astral is enough, because I don't like the long duration during ganks. I am flexible with it though.
I don't have a particular game in mind, but generally this is how my OD game looks like. I always solo mid, and I win my lane 80% of the time. My 2 side lanes however, somehow always lose (maybe because I don't gank when I solo mid OD, or I usually face a stacked team). My priority is always to ensure my level of farm is highest in the game, so I'm always farming in mid with a TP on me. Only time I fight, if when they come to kill my side lanes, and I TP in for some free kills (ulti hurts damn alot). But more or less, my team is feeding overall. I am probably the fattest and highest level, but the next 5 are probably my enemy. Most of the time I would ward myself, and begging my team not to do stupid feeding again (works when you ping them). When I have my Meka up, my team is usually in a decent position to fight, but still sometimes not good enough. The game turns usually when my BKB is up. That's when I ignore all stuns and can just kill them one by one with some basic help from my team. Eventually with me carrying (with Hex and Aegis), my team will get their basic items up and we win.
Actually I think I just wrote a mini guide on OD, seeing this is how you should play OD in pubs. Always concentrate on keeping your farm above the enemy, and fight only when you know you will not die (it is very important not to die). Always carry a TP when farming mid, so you can counter gank (:
[Edit] Magic Stick is actually a situational item for AM, not a must. Might cost only 200, but I don't like wasting such gold on carries early game (:
Not entering for the competition but just for funs~
Hero: I like huskar lol he's just really weird and fun to play, lanes well good early harass and can pick up a kill or two as well Items: I don't play srsly and dick around --> force staff/blademail/dagon but armlet owns Funny moments: Was laning at bot pudge hooks me at like level 11/12 or something (I'm sent he's scourge) and I was like FUUUUUUUU thinking I was gonna feed again but then I check out his hp and it's 75% there.. I was like fuck that shit ima fight him and to my surprise I just raped him with the ult+the fire stack shit no orb walking or anything just like a+click lol The dude was raging at how big of a fluke that was and bla bla bla and I kinda tried for a lil bit and he hooks me again and ults I almost die and he doesn't heal + i TP and orb walk him down then I said in all chat " your pudge is feeding on purpose" and they all started telling him to leave and he was like saying how broken huskar was but then I was roaming around and got ownt by lina so many times lolol. Then they got mad at him even more for getting ownt by a terribad player like me
I use Venomacer. Veno is a kick ass hero that takes down the support heroes or low health ones. I always use speed in and only use ulti after a stunner or initiator starts off, so i am assured a hit with nova. Veno is great for picking of the weaklings or making sure no one runs away. It is really cool to have a nuke but frustrating as hell to have your ulti so close to killing but never does.
I work my way up to boots of Agi or str depending if i am facing nukes or low health heroes. If i have kill or farmed well, i will work my way to loather. If i have not than i will get wards and set myself up for ulti stick.
Final is: Ulti stick, Linkens, Boot of travel, Loather, BKB (if possible. probably will get earlier if they have stunner or lot of disable); BFLy (REALLY REALLY late game item. to help carries do damage)
I like to get Poison sting first and lane with either a stunner or a carry. I harass heroes only while giving other the LH. I usually go 2 poison sting; 3 Gale and ulti. Than max out gale and 2 ward before getting 2nd ulti. This is to farm lanes and push. THan max out sting and pump Plus stat till last ulti. Cap out final ward to get ready to take out roshan.
The most memorable thing i remember is the craziest combo of ulties. In this pub we took the liberty of spouting bible qoutes at each other and even citing it. So it was Pudge, void, Sand king, abbandon (was away at the time), Witch docor (witch was dead at this time). My team was Veno, Enig, Mag, Drow, and bala ( he was also dead). Late game and we were setting up for pushes. Pudge hooks drow and uses utli. but Mag blinks and uses pull, taking pudge towards me. I was about to gale pudge. Sk blinks in with ulti and stuns, Enigma blinks in and uses utli, cancel out. I use ulti and gale. void, jumps in and uses ulti on the mob, drow is outside. Void kills enigma and almost about to kill me. Mag, who had joined the mob during enigma's ulti. Uses his ulti. We kill pudge and SK, void still alive (somehow). Drow silences as Mag ulti finishes. and we kill off void. We push to rax. I also quoted John. It was lolz as my computer screen was flashing from the ulties.
It's been a long time since I've played any DotA, but I am incredibly eager to get back into the DotA swing of things. I don't think I can pick any one hero as my favourite hero. But one of them that is definitely a lot of fun is Rattletrap, the Clockwerk Goblin. Early game I would usually get one level of Rocket Flare, for harass and last hits and scouting, and then pump up Battery Assault, because it's awesome, and get one point in Power Cogs as soon as my friends start ganking. From that point, after maxing Battery Assault I'd evenly split points between Flare and Cogs, and of course getting the ulty whenever possible. As for the item build, I'd probably just get typical strength hero items: bracers, treads, armlet or hood or vanguard depending on the heroes I'm facing, and whatever late game items I feel like farming up.
Here is a little bit about my experience with him, if you go to this link and then scroll down to chapter 36:
Clink, clank, puff, insides twirling and arms jerking, iron skin and hydraulic heart – this was definitely a new experience for Saguine. Saguine lifted a hand, and as the hand rose he felt the winding of some contraption protruding from his back. The hand rose, and rose... further and further, until it reached Saguine's long, pointedly evil nose, and scratched it. As he itched the rusty spot, Saguine pondered his uniquely mechanical situation. Being a robot, do I have to follow three laws hardwired into my programming? Can I ever look upwards? What do I do if I run out of gas, or start malfunctioning? Do I have a mechanical dong? It was these curious musings that explained why the Clockwerk Goblin's nose was investigating areas down under when Shaang, the tauren Earthshaker saw him. Shaang looked at him curiously, then chanced a salutation. Saguine's head jerked up forty five degrees, than another forty five, and then he felt digital zeroes and ones flashing with malicious intent. Without thinking, a piston-like hook shot at Shaang, impaling him and propelling Saguine right at him. Shaang roared, and brought his mighty totem smashing down, stunning the metal goblin, who had started firing off shrapnel from spoiler compartments. The tauren tried to lift his totem again, but the chaotic barrage of shrapnel flew in his eyes or hit him in his gut or glanced off his arms. Saguine's gears went back in motion, and his little wrench tore furry flesh with every swing. Shaang health waned, and his attempts to fight were failing. Saguine was relentless with his battering assault, and when Shaang turned to run Saguine deployed a barrier of power cogs that imprisoned him with his bovine opponent. Shaang snorted and managed to bring his totem down once more in a thundering strike that sundered the ground at his feet and sent a wave of earth towering upwards, demolishing the cogs and denting the goblin. He attacked, attacked, and with perfect timing brought his totem down with another stun, and then Shaang disappeared in the blink of an eye. Saguine's fierce, tiny body shook with electric fury. His chest opened up, and from it flew a rocket that twisted and smoked and sought it's lumbering target with scary speed. The explosion blew Shaang apart, polluting the air with an oily, bloody stench, and leaving Saguine smiling a very pointedly evil smile. Several paces away resided a single, desolate tag, where it had dropped from Saguine after he had hooked Shaang. If there had been one to read it, he would have read this peculiar message: CLOCKWERK GOBLIN: A mean, green, fighting machine! Remove unfriendly neighbors with this untraceable robotic friend! Buy two for the amazing price of one! Does not come with warranty. Warning: do not leave near small children.
Btw, if you feel like reading a completely silly but kinda fun fanfic about a bunch of dota heroes duking it out in a Survival mode with other random things I threw in (like the Arthas-esque transformation of Icefrog), then read as many chapters as you want! Also, I can prove my identity as DarthNoob if requested (unfortunately the original DotA site is down so I can't also prove being MajorNoob... but come on. Look at the kind of names I choose. They're all self-deprecating, lol)
Anyway, I hope the CG description was sufficiently epic to win me a beta pass =D but if it wasn't, gl hf to whoever got it!
Really nice description, favorite character is definitely panda. I really like the way he walks, lol. Pretty easy character to play imo, I usually like to go blink dagger into bf for farming then satanic and heart to top it off.
I generally like panda cause he never dies, split and continue fighting.
I am going to tell you about the most powerful hero in dota. He is not always my favorite, but he is without question, the most powerful all around hero. I speak of course about
The highest stat gain, high starting stats and starting base damage Roof comes equipped with some stellar abilities. His nuke does decent damage while healing nearby allies and slowing the opponent. His ult is among the best and let's not forget the best part about him. He's able to be constantly invisible... even while casting spells!
He is the only hero, in my opinion that can be a completely useful team member and dangerous opponent with nothing more than mana boots. From the early game to the mid game, Rooftrellen can initiate great ganks over and over with nothing more than mana boots.
I tend to go max nuke and invis first (getting his ult at 6 of course) and then I debate between stats and his aura.
He is completely effective without items beyond mana boots, but when I'm playing seriously I tend to go
chick (or crow) obs wards heal pot 2 clarity
into mana boots necrobook lvl 3 then shivas or ac (depends on allies)
if the game is still going on by now then there is something really wrong as Roof doesn't get to farm up too well as he's too busy ganking and scouting for ganks.
I like playing critical roles. I enjoy having some sort of weight upon my shoulders. I'm not very good at support because my style of play is very aggressive and requires gold, making me a weak support player.
For one of the critical roles I like to play an initiation role. A good initiation can make or break a team fight, and one team fight can make or break a game. For that role I enjoy Earthshaker. Because of his effective early game with fissure blocks and his ability to devastate a team fight with proper initiation, he's by far my favorite choice as an initiator. I also like to roam with him because his stun has a very long range and often will result in a kill for Mid. Also for the funsies Refresher is baller as hell.
Skill Build: Fissure, Aftershock, Fissure, Aftershock, Fissure, Echo, Fissure, Enchant Totem, Aftershock, Aftershock, etc. I like having at least 2 levels of Aftershock before Enchant Totem unless the team has a lot of channeling or critical channelling spells.
Item Build: Typical early game items. Branches/regen/etc. If I'm doing well in lane I'll get some early boots and a bit of stats and rush a blink dagger. If I'm not doing so well I'll get mana boots, wards, and work slower towards that blink dagger while still being an asset to my team.
Story time
One of the reasons I took a liking to Earthshaker was because he was my first critical role in a invite-only league game. I always considered myself above the typical TDA and much above the typical pub and I finally got a shot to prove myself in the NAIHL (was previously vouched in TIHL but that seemed more like a funsy league). I played as Earthshaker because the team said that's what we needed. I took the role begrudgingly because I wanted to play a babysitter (as I had previous experience with babysitting) and that much pressure on my first game while trying to make a good impression really rattled me.
Throughout the game I made some decent plays, some good plays, some bad plays. I fissured my teams away from kills, but more often than not fissured a kill for my team. My ultimate wasn't doing much because the pressure made me get bad farm, and put me behind considerably. I ended up finally getting my blink dagger. I was doing very bad that game so I think the other team didn't take me too seriously. We were pushing their mid, at their base tower, and they clumped up. Typically I would ask in ventrilo over and over again "should I go? should I go?" which would make me miss my opportunity. This time, I saw 4 of the 5 heroes very clumped, and just went for it. I couldn't do worse than I was and I hit a big ulti, stun locking 4 of the 5 heroes and then all 5 with the fissure. My Sand King backed me up, and everyone swarmed in and we won the game that way. A bunch of "Well dones" came through ventrilo, got invited to more games, got picked in captains mode, etc etc. It was my step into competitive DotA, and I remember it fondly everytime I play ES.
tl;dr First semi-competitive game of DotA playing ES, did well at the end, got me invited back a lot, e-peen is huge.
I actually agree with you 100% on that DucK-, and "save that Vitality Booster for a late game Heart" is something I say so often about Weaver.
Battle Fury doesn't scale well lategame, and it is all about how much you can farm with it, somewhat Midas-esque. Your build is very similar to ZSMJ's. ZSMJ minimizes defensive items (even gets Phases instead of Treads) and goes from PMS to Battle Fury to Vlad's to... whatever else he needs. Of course, he has LGD backing him up.
When I'm playing pubs I actually don't get Battle Fury since I suck too much and I have an obsession with stats, so I go Ultimate Orb or Yasha. And other pub players are probably in a similar boat. Of course, then the discrepancy between "optimal competitive play" and "pub play" becomes apparent, but I forgot about it--this is no means a competitive guide. I'll have to make time to change some stuff now.
I like playing pretty much all the carries,such as weaver, antimage, drow ranger, void, and sometimes meepo lol. But my favorite is probably Weaver. As an agressive player, she's perfect for me, her harassing capabilities in lane is incredibly effective, she's also really good at chasing and escaping (you can easily get the first blood). It is really important with weaver to farm as much as possible, you really need to get those items as fast as possible. She might be fragile, but with shukuchi and time lapse (+ vanguard) it's pretty easy to get away. For my item build, i usually open with 3 branches, 1 tango, 1 clarity, and a magic stick, then after, I get ring of basilius, wand and treads. After that, I usually get my vanguard, then I start farming to get my radiance, or manta. Once i get that, if the game is not over ^^, ill get butterfly or buriza. I remember once, I made a Divine reaper lol, but I got multi stunned and died.. then guess what, their antimage took it and we lost. So since then, I never made a reaper again ^^. For the skill build, I open with Shukuchi, so I can start harassing straight away, then geminate attack, then the swarm. At this point I got 1-1-1, from here theres 2 choices, stacking shukuchi or the swarm, it depends of your style I guess, but I personally prefer shukuchi. Well stacked, Weaver is extremely powerful, she's a good ganker and a good team fighter, however, you must avoid antimage, because his mana burn will make you vulnerable, you must also be careful if your opponents have a gem or dust. In conclusion, weaver is just an awesome carry.
Crystal Maiden Rylai Crestfall (pronounced Riley) Intelligence support hero (generally used as a ward-bitch and for double stacking)
"Fun facts": Uses Jaina Proudmoore's model Hmm low-res boobies Almost always referred to as 'cm' I for some reason always call her Rylai though.
Crystal nova, her 1st spell is an aoe slow that also deals damage which can be used for harassing early game but also ganking. Frostbite, her 2nd spell is a rooting spell which can be used to stop an enemy player from fleeing/entering battle. Brilliance Aura, her 3rd spell is a passive global mana regeneration aura, especially useful if you got a hero like bristle on your team, with the aura he can spam his quills even more than before. Freezing Field, her ultimate however is generally not that useful, because of the random explosions it is mostly used when an enemy dives, is locked in a position, or if you are standing in fog next to him or something.
My skill build varies a lot from game to game, it depends mostly on who I am going to lane with and/or someone on my team desperately needs a lot of mana reg early game. However, I always pick Crystal Nova in lvl 1 and Brilliance Aura in lvl 2, after that everything is situational, if I am on a lane where we are going to gank a lot I will often favor point in crystal nova over brilliance aura, but when I am creep pulling and being a wardbitch (when tri-laning) I usually max out brilliance aura first just because I will not be on lane a lot of the time and my team still benefits from my aura even though I am not near.
My item build varies a lot as well, depends on how many other supports we got on our team, if I buy courier or wards etc. But what I usually go is courier/ward, 1x circlet of nobility, 1xhealing salve, and 2xIronwood branch. When the game has started I usually use my first 200 gold to upgrade courier, then depending on how well the lane goes I try and get my Boots of speed so that I can double stack and harrass much more easily. Mid-Late game items are very situational, you generally do not get a lot gold with Rylai so you cannot afford luxurious items like Guinsoo's scythe of Vyse, you are much better off going for items like Mekansm and Eul's scepter of divinty (I prefer mekansm just because you need every little piece survivability you can get, and the heal is awesum too!)
Rylai like any other pure support heroes (Are there really anyone else as pure support as Rylai though?) will not get you good k/d nor will she score you beyond godlike killing spree's but she will definetely help your team's carry do that because her slow is really good for getting kills in the early phase of the game. I advise you to mostly play her when you either know the carry you are laning with or if you know that the player isn't a noob..
I dont really remember any specific games where I had an exceptional amount of fun playing as cm but I do remember using crystal nova on an enemy and then proceeding to right click attack the enemy but then seeing that the guy is quite low and that I might be getting the kill and while the auto attack is flying through the air I was screaming 'no no no no no, don't get the kill' but then ofc getting the kill (There is seriously something strange with her auto attack :| ) and ofcourse a followup "Fuuuu" from my friend .
Spent a long time doing this write-up, hope you guys like ! ^.^
My favorite hero is Meepo because he actually takes micro and used to be a super strong pubstomp hero with poof spam.
Standard build on meepo is my favorite, start with Power Treads (Str) and Mek, into Vlad's offering. Next you can go cuirass or just start to stack Reaver's since Heart his images dont get any stats besides str/agi/int.
Best games start out laning until ult then lane and jungle at the same time, you start to get ahead by a lot. You can solo rosh by lvl 16 which sometimes only takes you 20 minutes in a super pub game, since you can get exp at 2 jungle camps and a lane simultaneously. Obviously the best moments are when you save an image by poofing to fountain, but some pretty hilarious times come from roaming the jungle!
This is a great and well put together guide that covers a lot of what you need to play Anti-Mage.
My favorite hero will always be Anti-Mage, a few others come close, but the clutch plays you can pull of with him just make it so satisfying when your playing well. Start with Blink, Mana Break, Spell Shield. Maxing blink first followed by Mana Break and taking Mana Void when available. Core Items being Power Treads, Vanguard, Battle Fury. and Manta. Followed by whatever the situation calls for that match.
I found it great that the guide pointed out the interaction between different heroes, especially Faceless Void. My close friend is a great Faceless Void player and the two of us would always end up in these epic carry battles between our favorite heroes. We'd go back and forth all the time on who won and lost but the stats have always been pretty even. We learned a lot playing against one another always working on new strategies to see who will come out on top. The two of us can't wait to bring this battle to the next level in DoTA 2.
I love Windrunner! I always get 5 GG branches and 2 salves to solo mid (like a boss) then bury whatever hapless solo happens to think they have better damage or base attack speed then her, hahaha! If by some preposterous turn of fortune I cannot out CS the hero (looking at you, Shadow Fiend) I just kill them with my magnificent power shot micro! My power shot is undodgeable. It might as well be assasinate! Mostly because I don't bother to skill windrun until level 9 (duh, what are you afraid of, ganks?). You can't dodge powershot when you're attached to a tree! I only use wind-run to chase. I don't get Focus Fire until level 13 (so I can chase more!).
I have tried every conceivable item combination, I swear. phase linkens is ok. phase->Battlefury->hex is pretty insane. The sickest though, is phase->urn->(wand)->Mjollnir->Eye of Skadi->Buriza-->teleport scroll->hex-> travels-> heart. Obviously I don't get past buriza ever, but it's good to be prepared! When I was on a scrim team, my captain would never let me play windrunner and my team would get very upset that I didn't buy anything even close to resembling a support item (BM!). Obviously one of my most fond memories was when they finally let me play her. I got to solo mid against a team that wasn't quite as strong (read:16:0 WR) and single-handedly blew them out after crushing mid and constantly killing both side lanes with early phase (early everything). It's fun to be beyond godlike, but it's a lot different in a scrim when you know the other team is trying their best to stop you from going 16-0. Nothing better than trollol-thrashing extremely competitive players in Garena while they flame you for buying terrible(innovative!) items :D
That is one heck of an in-depth guide, amazing work. Anti mage is a great hero to be playing right now in DotA 2, especially because he wrecks a large portion of the limited hero pool.
My favorite hero is the lovely Brood Mother.
With a unique skillset, Brood Mother is extremely flexible (perhaps the most versatile out of any of the classic stealth heros). Brood Mother has an unbelievable laning phase where she can hide in webs and last hit, as well as hit and run on heros with her scary slow. The enemy is almost forced to pick up true sight wards or completely give up control of the lane. Unfortunately the webs no longer grant truesight (dropping a web onto the spot they warded was just a little too strong, heh), but even after your hit and run tactics are shut down the webs still grant increased movespeed and health regen, which will be very helpful for staying in lane. Also in the early game, Brood Mother can become an unstoppable pushing force with swarms of a spiders. A little mana regen can put a LOT of pressure on the first tower, especially if Brood is solo mid against a ganking type hero. They will be hard pressed to defend the lane from the push, leaving Brood open to control the runes and perhaps go ganking. Broods pushing ability also allows her visit another lane and very quickly amass an army for a surprise push on a tower, at worst forcing teleports from the enemy team to defend.
In the mid game, as your web skill gets ranked up, Brood can place quite a few webs around the map. Proper placement of webs will show the difference between a good and a truly great Brood mother. Placing webs is an art unto itself, the ability to destroy trees means you can rearrange the architecture of the map. They also act as free indestructible infinite duration wards, albeit with a much smaller sight radius. Proper placement of webs will show the difference between a good and a truly great Brood mother. One of the more common techniques used in early to mid game is to create a "web highway" in your lane. Dotting webs down the whole lane can let you traverse up and down the length of the lane very quickly and invisibly. A foe without truesight will never be quite sure where you are, and even if they do drop a true sight ward, proper web placement can forge you a path around it. Webs in the forest can watch ramps or other popular crossing points, and making enemies think twice about wandering into your jungle.
My favorite application of webs however, is putting up webs in other lanes to scare your enemies. You can throw up a web in a lane across the map, and never go back there, but every time you go missing they will have to be a little bit wary of that location. The psychological effect of random webs on the map is very amusing.
In the midgame, if you aren't pushing, you should be ganking! Brood Mother, like any invis hero, has natural tools to gank with. If you sneak up on an unsuspecting hero and get your autoattack off with your teammates nearby, you can generally net a kill. The slow is extremely high and only heros with a long range blink will have a chance to escape. It is important when chasing with Brood Mother to learn to cancel your attack just after the point of damage in order to better "orb walk" with your target and deal more damage. This is one of the more advanced techniques of the hero that takes practice. Also, I never hesitate to tower dive heros if i have backup nearby: Incredibly lifesteal makes me fantastic in a 1 vs 1 scenario, and throwing a web to destroy their trees leaves them nowhere to juke / hide.
As we go into the later part of the game, Brood Mothers role shifts, and she fulfills the role of semi-carry. While hard carrying is generally best left to more mobile heros, Broodmother can make use of her incredible damage, lifesteal, and her debilitating orb effect to beat most heros in a 1 on 1 situation. Also, while Brood doesn't necessarily excell at team fighting, she does her job. At this point, picking your targets correctly becomes very important. Depending on the situation, you might want to prey on the weak casters at the pack of fights, or you might want to engage their carry to put your extreme slow and miss debuff on him, making him less of a threat. Getting a black king bar will let Brood wade into the thick of combat to accomplish this job.
When playing this style of Brood you will want to start the game off with some mana regen, going for a basilius ring. Basil not only keeps you fueled on mana, but can be toggled to give armor to all your spiders, making for scary pushing ability. Depending on your team setup, you can turn this basil into a Vladimirs later, which works well with your spiders. For boots, you can go with just about anything you want. My favorite boots are Phase Boots, which are phenomenal for chasing people, and help you out big time when your spiders get in your way. Boots of travel are also a fantastic option, for quick teleoport pushes, and save money on town portal scrolls big time. The first big item you will usually work towards is a Black King Bar, because using this and your ultimate will make you a very very difficult target. You will usually be able to guarantee a kill on a squishy and get out safely when combining your ult, bkb activation, and proper web placement. In team fights later in the game, this lets you go toe to toe with their carry, to deliver your critical debuff. After the bkb, you will generally want to get more defensive or support items. Linkens can be useful if you find yourself useless while BKB is on cooldown and want more resiliency, or Orchid to silence / focus down a high priority target such as a blinking carry.
My most memorable game as Brood came while laning against my friend who was not to happy about his spider problem. After giving up first blood he came back to lane with a 2 truesight wards, but this was back when webs gave truesight, so it was a simple matter to just kill the wards off. He was force to give up his tower, and came back to the lane, this time with dust. After shopping, I wandered elsewhere on the map looking for potential ganks, while he sat in lane afraid to go past my webs. When I did finally return, I was sneaking up on him when he randomly decided to hit dust, only to reveal me mere inches away from his location. He couldn't escape and I started pushing his second tower hard. I couldn't believe when he showed up back at the lane, this time with a Gem of Truesight. I told him he was a good man for "Investing in the truesight industry", honestly he must have spent most of money on just trying to see me.
Heres to hoping I can relive the experience with him in DotA 2 soon!
Awesome guide! The Food section made me lol a bit since I like playing Int heroes and... yeah
On that theme, my favorite is Manta-style Tinker in pub games: Max out March of Machines ASAP while using missiles to harass (sometimes can pull off a surprise kill against a running enemy with that huge missile range) Ulti ASAP as available; finish maxing missiles Stats (helps the illusions) Laser at the end
Core items: Abuse ulti (cooldown-reset) + Boots of Teleportation: expend mana, farming with March -> teleport to fountain and erase cooldown -> back to farming asap Get Manta-style and play even more abusive: March + illusions clean up creep wave while Tinker casts ulti and heads for the next wave
Others: Radiance and Eye of Skadi for even more imba illusion creep ownage Linken's Sphere for survivability Guinsoo's for survivability/taking on lone heroes
Ridiculously awesome pushing ability once BoT and Manta are ready - you can easily smash up 2-3 waves of creeps -> fountain -> repeat with other lanes. Avoid enemy heroes and push the lanes opportunistically.
Thanks a lot for the guide. AM is very troublesome for me to play with and against. Don't understand him well, this will help.
My fav. hero so far is Tiny (Stone Giant). The reason is, he's one of the big melee heroes that have a lot of HP (so I don't die that fast), but at the same time he has very important ranged attacking abilities. For build, nothing special, just Avalanche, Toss alternated until maxed, and only then a couple of ulties and the armor passive. It's important to get early boots and Dagger.
Really nice guide--I personally love poor man's shield though. I prefer to rush pers and bfury that much faster and rely on treads, branches, and maybe a magic wand for my hp pool. I love best the "when to choose" early in the guide as well as the "these heroes are your bane" section near the end.
The "when to choose AM" part helps even a long time player like me (sometimes I just feel like playing AM and have a terrible game in spite of outfarming others early), and the anti-AM heroes are worth noting for newbies--those allies who type "wtf why didn't you help?" because they don't have a clue. Then again, I doubt many of those particular players will see your guide.
About the hero choosing, it's worth noting for any mid level players that a balanced team isn't just about having 2 str, 2 int, and 1 agi, or some such, but actually filling roles you and others mention, beyond the easiest to comprehend roles as Tank, support, carry. Initiators, gankers, and babysitters are a little more difficult to grasp, especially as some allies just assume that if you have a stun, you are going to be an effective ally by level 3.
I'm surprised Leshrac didn't get a mention in the AM food section, or "this is why Leshrac isn't necessarily AM food," simply because he's kind of a classic knee-jerk "guys don't pick int they got AM! OMG you picked Leshrac?" Ah, pubs are where it's at.
I've seen someone get lothar's on anti-mage once, two years later I'm still wondering why.
And since he's been added recently to the Dota 2 line-up, I guess this would be a good time to do a guide on batrider.
Jin'zakk, Batman The Batrider
0. Why batrider is awesome I. Introduction (to me and batrider) II. Pros and Cons III. Hero Basics IV. Skill and Build Justifications V. How To Play
0. Why batrider is awesome I personally think people need to just pick characters because they're cool and awesome, enter batrider. He leaves a burning trail of fire in his wake has he flies over trees, burning them down, over cliffs, through heroes and creeps just to lasso you. The psychological impact of a bat rider charging towards you has made many dota players plug pull simply out of fear. Of course he has to do this in style, I mean, what do you drive? A hondai? A ford? He drives a bat - you can't touch that. Yeah, I'm a bit shallow, but that's fine. I wanna play dota as flame splurting, terrain diving, bat riding badass.
I. Introduction (to me and batrider) I'm going to be honest, I didn't even know this character existed when I saw him for the first time. I was watching a replay of two Chinese teams with a friend I always played with who was better than me at the time and we were calling out the bans, theory crafting away like we knew what we were talking about. When it came down to the last ban, we both said Rhasta the shadow shaman was going to be banned, and to both of our surprises, the icon for batrider popped up. When I saw it, I had no idea who he was just by the icon. If you've played dota for a long time, you can imagine how weird that feels, icons define the character. And that was it, I didn't know who he was, never seen him in a game of mine and obviously never played as him but suddenly he was ban worthy in this pro replay and I had to find out more!
So, enough about me, who is batrider? Well, batrider is one of the rare breeds of intelligence heroes who can be found in the scourge intelligence side. The cookie cutter int. heroes are either burst nukes with stuns that go around ganking everyone at early levels and initiate fights mid game or the I have a heal so I'm going to play support and babysit/jungle. Well, batrider is a nuker that has no long stuns and no burst damage; instead, he deals sustained magic aoe damage that gets stronger and stronger as the fight goes on. And when I say gets stronger, I mean it gets to ridiculous numbers. However, to do that damage, he must put himself in near melee range. He also has one of the strongest single target disables in the game, able to drag an enemy helplessly behind him, so being in melee range isn't all bad.
II. Pros and Cons Pros: + Can make fights 4v5 almost instantly from initiations + AoE slow can ensure no escape from team fights + Strong Sustained AoE magic damage + Hard to kill when played correctly
Cons: - Must be in close range to do most things - No dependable stun/no long stuns - No AoE intiation - Takes time to do damage/slow
His attack animation isn't stellar, but it's not bad either. The 0.7 backswing on casting is pretty bad though, so animation cancel those sticky napalms. It's by no means crystal maiden bad, but when you're dragging someone with a timer on your lasso, you wanna make every second count.
The attack range is very mediocre, it means he does have to be careful of double stun lanes when he last hits.
Skills: I don't know if I can even do those fancy tables so I'll just link you to playdota, you can read all the intricacies of the skills there. I'll leave my commentary here though. Batrider Skills
First thing to note is that his sticky napalm has 700 range and flamebreak has 1500! range. This is hilarious in lane as you are very close to creeps trying to last hit at a mere 375 attack range but then you start sticking them from behind your range creeps and suddenly they can't turn around to run. The flamebreak's range coupled with 0.5 ministun can snipe that one sneaky opponent trying to juke in the trees for a free tp home. (especially at the side shop trees)
Second thing to note is that sticky napalm is badass. Yes, you're are reading those numbers correctly, 3 second cooldown, 10 stack max, at level 4 it does 9% slow per stack, 25 extra damage per stack and 70% turn slow at all levels. So yes, in 30 seconds you can slow in a 375 AoE for 90% and amplify damage by 250 for all your skills and auto attacks. That 70% turn slow is very significant, especially in team fights, if you get sticky napalm on someone who's out of position charging towards you, they will not be able to retreat because of the slowed turn. Similarly, if a team fight is petering out with your team on top, the enemy can't turn around and run away very quickly. It basically makes it a nightmare to position in team fights.
Third is the firefly which does 80 damage per second and the sticky napalm amp. damage. You also literally shoot fire out of your ass when you fly around, which is often sufficient reason to pick the champion in a pub game.
Finally his ult is very self-explanatory, just beware that you can't lasso and dagger back to your team. It goes through BKB like most ults do and only has 50 seconds cd at lvl 3.
When to Pick: + Pub games when people don't always have good ward sight and team work + Low number of stun on the other team, you can't die if they can't stun you + Not a lot of natural bkb users
When Not to Pick: - Enemy has strong AoE initiation, they will just counter initiate on you with blink daggers - Your team needs a dependable stun, the ult just doesn't cut it.
IV. Skill and Build Justifications Skill Build: + Show Spoiler +
1 OR OR 2 OR OR 3 OR OR 4 5 6
THEN > > >
Justification: Nothing special about the general build, basic math shows that napalm does more for your damage than anything else, especially because it affects your auto attacks too. Remember to animation cancel. Your first 3 levels depends on what you're doing. If you're afraid of being level 1 ganked then get firefly, if you want to harass at range then flame break, and napalm if you're doing a 3 man gank and don't have a follow up stun for some reason so you need to follow up on the initiating stun. There are people who never get flamebreak until napalm and firefly are maxed, and that's fine since it does a lot more damage, but everyone carries tp scrolls with them so I like having that ministun and knockback.
Ordered by importance: First two are obvious, they help you stay in lane. Magic wand is simply amazing for baiting mid game and gg sticks are so efficient there's no reason not to get them. Gauntlet if you feel vulnerable against a double stun and int robe if you're having trouble last hitting, combined with gg sticks can get you a fast 8 dmg, which helps. You shouldn't be the chicken buyer, but if you're mid and no one bought chicken then you need to or you'll lose mid. Magic wand recipe to buy the magic stick in a side lane works if you randomed and have a lot of money.
Laning phase (tp scroll, magic wand, urn of shadow, boots of speed)
If you're in a side lane, complete that tp scroll and magic wand, urn is very good for staying in lane and the health and mana regen never hurts. Boots because being slow is bad. Wards if you have to, again, you're not really the support, you need to finish your core so if the opponent has a bane or pudge mid get that ward for your lane, else skip it.
OR
(tp scroll, magic wand, boots of speed, bottle, wards)
The solo mid build, you'll need bottle for runes and if no one is warding for you then you'll just have to suck it up and buy it yourself. You do not want to lose rune control, an invis or haste usually means 2 kills in pub games.
Core (blink dagger, black king bar, force staff)
(boots of travel, power treads)
(blood stone, hood of defiance, blademail)
So the core is broken down to 3 types, 1. things that lets you ult, 2. boot upgrades, and 3. stuff that makes you not die (fairly important). It's also broken down into 'I'm dominating this game" and "I'm not doing so well".
Blink dagger lets you ult whoever you want. BKB lets you fly away with your prey and force staff is basically poor man's version of dagger but you can also force staff yourself with lasso without breaking it, so it has that going for it. Note: a force staff on someone trying to poke is hilarious as they fly into the warm embrace of your lasso. You'll only want to pick at most 2 from these items, BKB and one of the other.
Always get travels if you can without gimping the other 2 cores.
Pick one of the three depending on the situation, maybe two of the three. Bloodstone if you're killing everything that moves but otherwise get a hood for defense. I know blade mail is questionable, but I like blade mail because when stuck in napalm people rarely try to run and they just start beating on you. When you activate blade mail it makes them think twice.
Luxury (sheepstick)
What's twice as good as one disabled player?
Situational (eul's scepter)
Alright, full disclosure, this is my favorite item in the game so I'm completely biased. The obvious con is that it's a 2800 gold item, and that's huge. But it takes someone out of a fight for 2.5 seconds, and I think that it's worth it. Whether it's saving yourself or if you're ganking a lane with 1 stun you can stop the stun. It has so much utility if you can farm it up in a reasonable time, but it's definitely not the best item in the world by any means.
V. How to Play Laning In most lanes you should be the aggressor. Do not pick the lane that has a spectre in it, you are not a baby sitter and you need someone in your lane that has kill potential. Your focus should be to last hit and look for over extensions. If the other lane pushes too far, hit them with a napalm and you can get 3-4 auto attacks on them if they have to turn around, with the damage amplification you're hitting them hard. Coordinate attacks with your lane partner and any gankers, you should lead with napalm to see their response. If they start running then you can start stacking and give your partner a easy stun, especially if it's a skill shot, and the stun gives you more time to stack napalms. Naplam is amazing if someone is facing you and melee, abuse it in lane.
Mid Game If another lane is losing hard then you need to go gank it, with your lasso starting with 3 second duration and your napalm it's hard to escape a bat rider gank. Remember, firefly -> lasso -> move a little -> start stacking napalms -> move more and stack napalms as much as you can. Getting high napalm stacks is the most important thing you have to worry about because it makes firefly and auto attacks hurt! Flame break and push an enemy away if there's two of them. Beware of double burst lanes/double stun lanes, make sure your team is away that you're coming to gank with spam pings cause you might just get bursted down if they don't stun for you.
Team Fights Initiate when you can pick someone important off. This means you have to constantly check the items on the heroes. Yes, int heroes are squishy and generally important, but if that really bad warlock is lvl 7 and the solo mid centaur is lvl 14 and dominating don't just jump on warlock when he inevitably goes out of position. Yeah, it's good to get a pick, and generally you shouldn't target tanks, but make sure you always know who's worthy of your lasso! That's so important I'm going to say it again, constantly check character progress to make sure you know who's worth of your lasso! Rhasta is tasty and important, but if he's 0/10 and has no idea what he's doing, it's not worth it.
Second part of team fights is splashing naplam on everyone. If you think you're going to win the fight spread out napalm so no one can run, but generally you should max stack it on the 1-3 heroes you want to focus on and then firefly then and flame break everyone else away. Your job is to make sure the other team can't get in good position with your skills.
My fav. hero is Puck. He plays so smoothly and allows for more freedom in playstyle than other heroes imo. Bottle, blink dagger and wards and I'm good to go ♥.
Max attack speed is something like +378%ias. So butterfly won't give him max attack speed. Unless there's a frame limit. He does have a faster base attack speed (though it's not twice as fast, which is about what you'd need to max out with butterfly).
Manta images of course do not get the bonus raw attack speed and damage from butterfly, just the agility.
Image bashes don't do damage. They do have an animation, and there's a theory that they can prolong an existing bash, but they can't cause bash duration, but for the most part it's purely visual.
My favourite Hero is and will always be Priestess of the Moon. PotM is just overall awesome, incredible long stun, ultra mobile and a free smoke as ultimate
I think I like her the most, because the arrow is hard to hit, but once you master your timing (in my opinion, the "where" is not the hard thing, the "when" is) it can become one of the best skills in the game. Seriously, whenever I play PotM we get are almost guaranteed 5-6 kills because of my stuns, be it fleeing foes or just as an initiate.
I either go on the Solo Lane(bot/top) or Tripple Lane(top/bot), depending on their and our Lineup.
Skillz and Items:
I get one in Leap first for Solo and one in Arrow for Tripple Lane. From here I max Leap and Starfall, having every skill on at least one. I skill the Ultimate at 10 and 11 because I feel it is not very useful before that and level 1 Ulti is pretty bad, of course depending on how fast I level up ganking potential etc. I get the usual good stuff at the beginning, tango/salve, clarity, Slippers/Ironwood Branches, sometimes chicken if I have to support(rarely) I will try to get Power Treads (Strength, very late Agility) and at least Manta or Diffusal Blade(If I don't have to Support, which really should not happen) preferebly both. Of course a couple of TPs, and some Tangos from time to time. If the game progresses really slow and I don't get a decent amount of gold early enough I will get a few Wraith Bands. If I got Treads Manta and Diffusal, I'll get Butterfly.
Arrow gets an extra few lines since it is one of the hardest skills to use. So first of all it will take time to get used to the speed at which it flies. Once you got the hang of it, hitting an opponent that is already pretty far away still is really hard. Why? Because he most likely will have a variety of paths to chose from. Here comes the "when"! So, you want to hit someone in the face with an Arrow that is about as big as you are? Timing and understanding is key! You first want to know if he can reach a crossroad before your arrow will hit. If not -> Blam! If yes, it gets a little tricky, you have two choices: Wait until you are certain. You have to estimate, if you can follow, still will have vision and can capitalize on a hit, if you wait until you can see that he made a choice as to where he will go. Keep in mind that there might be help coming for him, check minimap etc. If it's worth it, wait. If not, -> Blam! Just shoot on the way you would go in his situation. Estimate wich way he will go. Glance at the minimap. Is he going to help someone? Is he hurt and wants to retreat? does he carry TP and will use it? <- most likely near a tower. If you understand his situation you think to yourself where exactly you would go and then shoot it at the estimated position.
I know that none of this is specific enough to instantly help you but that is because every single arrow you will shoot will be in a different situation.
Skills: 1 in either Leap or Arrow 1 in the other Max Starfall Max Leap Max Arrow
Ulti 10+11+16
Items:
Must: Magick Stick/Wand Treads TPs Tangos
Want: Manta Diffu Butterfly
Now, remember!
You leap in the direction you face! Your arrow is really hard to aim! Your Ultimate is pretty hard to use too with the fading and whatnot! You can shoot an arrow out of your ass while leaping! (This is pretty hard to do but awesome ))))
So my favourite game?
Well I don't really know, that was years back when I got Boots of Travel and used to just dominate the entire Map. Getting Stats like 25-3 Winning SIGs at dota-league alone.
What I remember better was a few weeks back, I accidentally ran into 3 opponents (1v3 Lane) and then tried to dodge a stun by leaping back, the only problem was that I leaped into a spot I couldn't move away from. The opponents tried to kill me but I survived with few HP since I was near a tower(first tower as sentinel on top lane). I started laughing in Teamspeak and wrote "haha biatches my PotM never dies!!" then came the Sunstrike from Invoker and pretty easy firstblood for him ((( Afterwards we laughed our asses off because I just tripple failed.
My favourite Hero is Huskar The reason for that is, that in nearly every league (dota-league, dotalicious etc.) he is one of those picks, which will make you lose the game. The winrate is around 30-40% percent. Because of that fakt I tried him many times in many different ways and came to the conclution that in publics, where you face unorganized teams, it is very effective to jungle huskar. My start inventory looks like this: 6 Tangoes You start at the Pullspot - doublestack him and then pull him. After that u should nearly have 900gold and lvl2. Primary you skill his passive. You continue with the small spot and if u didnt miss any cs before u should be ablte to get a mask of death.
With some tangoes and the MoD u can kill every woodspot, without pulling. Avg time to lvl6 = 7min Huge gold advantage for you, because you dont have to pull.
The only problem with that tactic is that u are always low hp and heros from mid who gank will easily catch u and say "thx". Bloodseeker = evil enemy :D
Some days ago I played this strategie and it was horrible for me. I was at 2 14 k/d and at min40 I had PT's, HotD and bkb finished, which is not that good ^^ The enemys were sure they would win, so their potm build a divine )) We managed to kill here, because she played arrogant as shit, i instantly took the divine - took rosh and went from 2 14 up to 11 14 winning the game :D We alrdy lost 2 lanes + raxes at that point http://www.dotalicious-gaming.com/index.php?action=dota;area=game&game=447356
I loved playin butcher since i first tryed him out. One of the heroes wich require alot skill if you want to own hard. Mostly picked by me in iccup public games coz pub is meant to be fun.
My Itembuild depends on wich heroes the enemy picks. If they go for early spamers i buy branches a stick and tangos+clarity's, otherwise i try to get a few items for my hood like ring of regeneration a branch or two and tangos + clarity then i try to get my boots and a bottle as soon as possible. From then on i try to build my hood cause rot would cause to much damage otherwise. in midgame i try to go for an force staff force staff should be used by any good pudge player after pressing hook you can just shift-que the forcestaff on the butcher to enlarge his hook range +600. After forcestaff i normally go für Agahnims since its been reworked and you get hp while channeling your ulti its really a good choice.I also try to get me boots of travel after the point booster to be more mobile for some ganking action. In lategame i try to upgrade my hood to a pipe . I also faced the fact that pudge is not the hero killing machine he used to be in early and midgame so i accept my role as a support and i try to build hex item I dont go for any spezial str item coz butcher gets enough through hero kills with his passiv of flash heap.
skills is very simple: 1. Rot 2. Meat Hook 3. Meat Hook 4. Rot or maybe Flesh heap 1x 5. Meat Hook 6. Dismember 7. Meat Hook 8. Rot 9. Rot 10. Rot 11. Dismember 12. Flash heap and so on...
there are so many funny moments when i think back at the time with Butcher 'n me like enemy venge swap and my hook at the same time. Its also very fun to save your teammates for example hook them out of void ulti. or hook- killing invis heroes
but the coolest thing ive ever done was a 2x ForceStaff Hook. I was playing as sentinel and we were trying push mid t3 tower. Me and my rl homi(Lina) just stand at the Scourges Secretshop choke then i was going for a blind hook to mid rax with 2x forcestaff - and BÄM! i just catched tiny. My Lina mate just grabbed him with his Laguna Blade, but its not about kills everytime
My favorite hero is Luna. Just the massive damage output leads to so many clutch situations she is an incredibly clutch hero. Also you can play her so many ways, damage items, sheep stick, aghanims, tanky...
My favorite memory with Luna? Well a long time ago, when I was first learning DotA I learned it from a bunch of guys at this LAN center. I started out by watching one play, and they were in CALeague as a DotA team (mostly employees of the lan center and their friends). I idolized them. They always trash talked me when I was bad, and whipped me into shape in the game rather quickly.
I stopped going to the LAN center as the atmosphere was getting worse (place was going out of business) and started playing at home.. A LOT. Got into IHCS1 and IHCS2 respectively. Was a pretty decent player, and I had one unique style, my Luna. I played a solo mid Luna well before I had seen anyone else attempt it. The weird part is how I played. I would level damage aura first, and then glaives, no points in her nuke, and I worked towards wraith bands and agi treads. Eventually I would have 4 wraith bands and agi treads. Now this seems bad for solo mid, but if you manage your lane right, and metagame the opponent right it was perfect.
Move forward a few years, and this is what happened. Those same guys that were on a team from the LAN center, and would always tell me how bad I am, etc... I go to the LAN center again and most of them are there. We organize an inhouse. I call solo mid with Luna, and the other guys on my team say no, go top solo, we have jungle, I'm like hrmm... okay that works out almost better. The whole time Duncan is talking crap about how bad Luna solo is. Everyone on the opposite team (mostly the original badass players of the CAL team) is now talking crap about me for doing Luna solo. So I do this, and I'm laned against Duncan and Temp, two guys that were the best of the best at that lan center and everyone looked up to them. Mind you, I had not played them in years so I still was somewhat humbled, but I just stuck to what I knew. Duncan went Zeus, and temp went Drow. Around level 3 I got first blood and a double kill. Then I proceed to kill them both again at level 6. Due to clever baiting, faking denies to bait them to attack creeps and get free potshots, lane management, etc... I completely outsmart them and outplay them on a level they have never played on.
This was the first time I had seen lots of hard work be translated into success. I eventually became unstoppable that game, and was just killing every teammate left and right when I got my butterfly+4 wraiths+agi treads. Temp talked crap still saying luna is bad solo, and I said yeah well who gave first blood, and who blah blah. Then he said he's gonna come to the lan center and beat my ass. I said go ahead still won't make up for the fact that you are now making excuses for why you didn't do well. Drow zeus should be able to completely shut down Luna, but I proved to them, that my skill was enough where they were just significantly beneath me at that point. No more crap was talked about me, and I didn't go back to the lan center.
0. Why batrider is awesome I. Introduction (to me and batrider) II. Pros and Cons III. Hero Basics IV. Skill and Build Justifications V. How To Play
0. Why batrider is awesome I personally think people need to just pick characters because they're cool and awesome, enter batrider. He leaves a burning trail of fire in his wake has he flies over trees, burning them down, over cliffs, through heroes and creeps just to lasso you. The psychological impact of a bat rider charging towards you has made many dota players plug pull simply out of fear. Of course he has to do this in style, I mean, what do you drive? A hondai? A ford? He drives a bat - you can't touch that. Yeah, I'm a bit shallow, but that's fine. I wanna play dota as flame splurting, terrain diving, bat riding badass.
I. Introduction (to me and batrider) I'm going to be honest, I didn't even know this character existed when I saw him for the first time. I was watching a replay of two Chinese teams with a friend I always played with who was better than me at the time and we were calling out the bans, theory crafting away like we knew what we were talking about. When it came down to the last ban, we both said Rhasta the shadow shaman was going to be banned, and to both of our surprises, the icon for batrider popped up. When I saw it, I had no idea who he was just by the icon. If you've played dota for a long time, you can imagine how weird that feels, icons define the character. And that was it, I didn't know who he was, never seen him in a game of mine and obviously never played as him but suddenly he was ban worthy in this pro replay and I had to find out more!
So, enough about me, who is batrider? Well, batrider is one of the rare breeds of intelligence heroes who can be found in the scourge intelligence side. The cookie cutter int. heroes are either burst nukes with stuns that go around ganking everyone at early levels and initiate fights mid game or the I have a heal so I'm going to play support and babysit/jungle. Well, batrider is a nuker that has no long stuns and no burst damage; instead, he deals sustained magic aoe damage that gets stronger and stronger as the fight goes on. And when I say gets stronger, I mean it gets to ridiculous numbers. However, to do that damage, he must put himself in near melee range. He also has one of the strongest single target disables in the game, able to drag an enemy helplessly behind him, so being in melee range isn't all bad.
II. Pros and Cons Pros: + Can make fights 4v5 almost instantly from initiations + AoE slow can ensure no escape from team fights + Strong Sustained AoE magic damage + Hard to kill when played correctly
Cons: - Must be in close range to do most things - No dependable stun/no long stuns - No AoE intiation - Takes time to do damage/slow
His attack animation isn't stellar, but it's not bad either. The 0.7 backswing on casting is pretty bad though, so animation cancel those sticky napalms. It's by no means crystal maiden bad, but when you're dragging someone with a timer on your lasso, you wanna make every second count.
The attack range is very mediocre, it means he does have to be careful of double stun lanes when he last hits.
Skills: I don't know if I can even do those fancy tables so I'll just link you to playdota, you can read all the intricacies of the skills there. I'll leave my commentary here though. Batrider Skills
First thing to note is that his sticky napalm has 700 range and flamebreak has 1500! range. This is hilarious in lane as you are very close to creeps trying to last hit at a mere 375 attack range but then you start sticking them from behind your range creeps and suddenly they can't turn around to run. The flamebreak's range coupled with 0.5 ministun can snipe that one sneaky opponent trying to juke in the trees for a free tp home. (especially at the side shop trees)
Second thing to note is that sticky napalm is badass. Yes, you're are reading those numbers correctly, 3 second cooldown, 10 stack max, at level 4 it does 9% slow per stack, 25 extra damage per stack and 70% turn slow at all levels. So yes, in 30 seconds you can slow in a 375 AoE for 90% and amplify damage by 250 for all your skills and auto attacks. That 70% turn slow is very significant, especially in team fights, if you get sticky napalm on someone who's out of position charging towards you, they will not be able to retreat because of the slowed turn. Similarly, if a team fight is petering out with your team on top, the enemy can't turn around and run away very quickly. It basically makes it a nightmare to position in team fights.
Third is the firefly which does 80 damage per second and the sticky napalm amp. damage. You also literally shoot fire out of your ass when you fly around, which is often sufficient reason to pick the champion in a pub game.
Finally his ult is very self-explanatory, just beware that you can't lasso and dagger back to your team. It goes through BKB like most ults do and only has 50 seconds cd at lvl 3.
When to Pick: + Pub games when people don't always have good ward sight and team work + Low number of stun on the other team, you can't die if they can't stun you + Not a lot of natural bkb users
When Not to Pick: - Enemy has strong AoE initiation, they will just counter initiate on you with blink daggers - Your team needs a dependable stun, the ult just doesn't cut it.
IV. Skill and Build Justifications Skill Build: + Show Spoiler +
1 OR OR 2 OR OR 3 OR OR 4 5 6
THEN > > >
Justification: Nothing special about the general build, basic math shows that napalm does more for your damage than anything else, especially because it affects your auto attacks too. Remember to animation cancel. Your first 3 levels depends on what you're doing. If you're afraid of being level 1 ganked then get firefly, if you want to harass at range then flame break, and napalm if you're doing a 3 man gank and don't have a follow up stun for some reason so you need to follow up on the initiating stun. There are people who never get flamebreak until napalm and firefly are maxed, and that's fine since it does a lot more damage, but everyone carries tp scrolls with them so I like having that ministun and knockback.
Ordered by importance: First two are obvious, they help you stay in lane. Magic wand is simply amazing for baiting mid game and gg sticks are so efficient there's no reason not to get them. Gauntlet if you feel vulnerable against a double stun and int robe if you're having trouble last hitting, combined with gg sticks can get you a fast 8 dmg, which helps. You shouldn't be the chicken buyer, but if you're mid and no one bought chicken then you need to or you'll lose mid. Magic wand recipe to buy the magic stick in a side lane works if you randomed and have a lot of money.
Laning phase (tp scroll, magic wand, urn of shadow, boots of speed)
If you're in a side lane, complete that tp scroll and magic wand, urn is very good for staying in lane and the health and mana regen never hurts. Boots because being slow is bad. Wards if you have to, again, you're not really the support, you need to finish your core so if the opponent has a bane or pudge mid get that ward for your lane, else skip it.
OR
(tp scroll, magic wand, boots of speed, bottle, wards)
The solo mid build, you'll need bottle for runes and if no one is warding for you then you'll just have to suck it up and buy it yourself. You do not want to lose rune control, an invis or haste usually means 2 kills in pub games.
Core (blink dagger, black king bar, force staff)
(boots of travel, power treads)
(blood stone, hood of defiance, blademail)
So the core is broken down to 3 types, 1. things that lets you ult, 2. boot upgrades, and 3. stuff that makes you not die (fairly important). It's also broken down into 'I'm dominating this game" and "I'm not doing so well".
Blink dagger lets you ult whoever you want. BKB lets you fly away with your prey and force staff is basically poor man's version of dagger but you can also force staff yourself with lasso without breaking it, so it has that going for it. Note: a force staff on someone trying to poke is hilarious as they fly into the warm embrace of your lasso. You'll only want to pick at most 2 from these items, BKB and one of the other.
Always get travels if you can without gimping the other 2 cores.
Pick one of the three depending on the situation, maybe two of the three. Bloodstone if you're killing everything that moves but otherwise get a hood for defense. I know blade mail is questionable, but I like blade mail because when stuck in napalm people rarely try to run and they just start beating on you. When you activate blade mail it makes them think twice.
Luxury (sheepstick)
What's twice as good as one disabled player?
Situational (eul's scepter)
Alright, full disclosure, this is my favorite item in the game so I'm completely biased. The obvious con is that it's a 2800 gold item, and that's huge. But it takes someone out of a fight for 2.5 seconds, and I think that it's worth it. Whether it's saving yourself or if you're ganking a lane with 1 stun you can stop the stun. It has so much utility if you can farm it up in a reasonable time, but it's definitely not the best item in the world by any means.
V. How to Play Laning In most lanes you should be the aggressor. Do not pick the lane that has a spectre in it, you are not a baby sitter and you need someone in your lane that has kill potential. Your focus should be to last hit and look for over extensions. If the other lane pushes too far, hit them with a napalm and you can get 3-4 auto attacks on them if they have to turn around, with the damage amplification you're hitting them hard. Coordinate attacks with your lane partner and any gankers, you should lead with napalm to see their response. If they start running then you can start stacking and give your partner a easy stun, especially if it's a skill shot, and the stun gives you more time to stack napalms. Naplam is amazing if someone is facing you and melee, abuse it in lane.
Mid Game If another lane is losing hard then you need to go gank it, with your lasso starting with 3 second duration and your napalm it's hard to escape a bat rider gank. Remember, firefly -> lasso -> move a little -> start stacking napalms -> move more and stack napalms as much as you can. Getting high napalm stacks is the most important thing you have to worry about because it makes firefly and auto attacks hurt! Flame break and push an enemy away if there's two of them. Beware of double burst lanes/double stun lanes, make sure your team is away that you're coming to gank with spam pings cause you might just get bursted down if they don't stun for you.
Team Fights Initiate when you can pick someone important off. This means you have to constantly check the items on the heroes. Yes, int heroes are squishy and generally important, but if that really bad warlock is lvl 7 and the solo mid centaur is lvl 14 and dominating don't just jump on warlock when he inevitably goes out of position. Yeah, it's good to get a pick, and generally you shouldn't target tanks, but make sure you always know who's worthy of your lasso! That's so important I'm going to say it again, constantly check character progress to make sure you know who's worth of your lasso! Rhasta is tasty and important, but if he's 0/10 and has no idea what he's doing, it's not worth it.
Second part of team fights is splashing naplam on everyone. If you think you're going to win the fight spread out napalm so no one can run, but generally you should max stack it on the 1-3 heroes you want to focus on and then firefly then and flame break everyone else away. Your job is to make sure the other team can't get in good position with your skills.
Jesus f***ng christ and I thought I used a long time to write mine.. O.o
there once was a hero named Axe who dreamed he was no longer hax he woke up in fright in the middle of the night and found out his strategy has cracks
there once was a hero named Puck who dreamed he was as good as Huk he woke up in fright in the middle of the night and found out he was all out of luck
there once was a hero named Viper who dreamed it was only a piper it woke up in fright in the middle of the night and had acid all in its diaper
there once was a hero named Lich who dreamed it was not very rich it woke up in fright in the middle of the night and decided to ult the Witch
My favourite hero is definitely Ulfsaar, his fury swipes make it so easy to jungle early without needing any +dmg items. I love doing rosh super early because fury swipes gets out of control. I would usually start with a shield and rush a vanguard skipping boots and then solo rosh quite soon after.
Ursa excels at destroying a single person early game if you can manage to get close enough, but he is quite helpless without support to enable him to engage.
good guide, well done. bkb is the single most important item on him you see a lot of pubs failing because they think if they have some magic resist and manta they are immune to disables. get it.
my fav hero is mirana, the arrow is the most awesome ability in the game imo . usually i go leap first (if no fb attempt) then arrow 1 point, and max starfall along with arrow from there. i get ult lvl1 on lvl10 usually. item builds vary depending on the opponent and my team, manta seems to be the only item i get every time on her
the most memorable mirana game i had was an ult based rapier backdooring in an epic 1,5 hour game. they were waiting for us because it was our third attempt at it, i used manta-bkb and just autoattacked the base, while my team disabled the enemy and we won.
This is great . Just watched someone playing this hero and this guide helped me understand exactly what he was up to. Very excited for Dota2 now despite having never played any moba before
Awesome guides, Just got a key yesterday and it helped me a ton since I am pretty new to Dota( only moba I have played before is LoL so this is quite a new experience to me).
My favorite hero is probably someone like Spectre cause I always played the ricer when I used to compete on CAL, and there were few heroes better for hitting creeps for 50 minutes than the old Spectre, especially since you don't even need to TP to help your team defend towers or pushes
I don't go an interesting skill build, I usually grab Phase Boots, Vanguard, Radiance, and from there I may branch off into Heart, Butterfly, Manta, Skadi, Diffusal - depends on how the game is going and what heroes I'm up against.
But I have some better stories regarding heroes that aren't Spectre...
Back when the DotA Allstars competitive forum was just in its infant stages, I was the leader of a team called FTM and one of our matches got submitted to the forum and posted, and it received a lot of acclaim as it was an epic and long game where I was QoP, and got really fat against a just as fat Silencer. For most of the late game, all I did was keep blinking into the silencer and nuking and fighting him one on one, and bailing before I died - and I did this constantly. The first few posters were like "Wow, that QoP's play was awesome! So exciting! He was so ballsy!" and I was feeling pretty damn good... then later posters were like "If that QoP got better or more useful items his team probably would have won," or "That QoP got so farmed and still didn't get any good items" so I stopped posting in the thread . (I got like Linkens, Aghanim's, Skadi, or something to that nature)
-
I used to always play pranks on my team, telling them we had a scrim against JMC, or coL (when those teams were the big two) and harassing them to get online, get on East, to hurry up, etc. then they'd join the channel and I would laugh at go back to west :-]. Around this time, Shaang made Pudge a popular hero by dominating competitive games with him and I started using him in my team's competitive games. As we had starting getting demos posted in the forums, some of my demos where I was playing Pudge got posted and warr1ck from coL apparently saw them and so when I joined their East channel and asked for a scrim, they actually agreed and said sure. I went and tried to get my team to come on and I think my excitement and genuine eagerness tipped them off that I *must* have been lying again... and I can't tell you how long it took me to convince them to just believe me.
It didn't work out well anyway, when we scrimmed coL started the match saying "go ahead, pick Pudge" (which at first made my dick real big), but I'm from Hawaii and if you've ever played DotA back in the day before LC or Garena and 300 ping, it genuinely doesn't go too well :-)
My favorite hero has to be Sandking. With his blinkstun, sandstorm jukage, farming explosions, and EPIC ULTIMATE, he's a ton of fun, and useful at all levels of play.
For skill build I normally max burrowstrike and epicenter whenever possible, sandstorm is now decent to level, and one level of caustic early if I am laning against melees (too much caustic will push your lane).
Item build: Starting items vary based on what your team composition is. SK is a viable person to buy early wards or chicken, but if you have a support bitch, let them take care of that. Generally you want some cheap stats and regen, like most heroes. Bottle is great on SK, because you will be GANKING like a boss, especially after level 6. Magic stick is always good as well. After boots and finishing bracers if you are having health problems, immediately begin saving for blink dagger. You can even steal some farm from semi-carries and the like because it is critical that you have this for team fights. Next you want to build Ult scepter for the crazyness and health/mana. You can also upgrade boots to travels if you have lots of extra money lying around. Late game items are game dependent. Things like heart, pipe, BKB, linkens, sheepstick, blademail, and even Vladamir's can all be useful items.
Gameplay: Early game you hopefully laned with another stunner and you are looking to chain stun to get some early kills. You can be a bit more aggressive than most heroes because you have sandstorm to get out of sticky situations. Once you hit 6, its gank fest every time that ultimate is up. Get your blink ASAP and the ganks get ridiculous. You can buy/place wards for your team because you will be moving around the map quite a bit. In team fights, your job is to get a big initiate off on their most clustered/dangerous heroes and stun every time its on CD. Again you can play more aggressively than most because SK is very adept at escaping bad situations, and you are much less valuable than your carry (this is what makes SK fun!).
Ult combo: Normally you want to channel your ult out of sight and shift queue either blink or burrowstrike into the battle. This makes it neigh impossible to cancel your ult. Sometimes it can be hard to do it with burrowstrike as the range is somewhat limited, so you can channel after burrowstrike if facing enemies without stuns. With blink, you always want to channel beforehand.
Funny game: I once saved a game after Testie fucked up mid lane (yes it happens) by triple killing two team fights! Awwwwww yeaaaa
im gonna pick up dota 2 as my first moba and im watching alot of games lately (mostly the joindota vods). so im focussing on anti-mage while keeping this guide in mind, just to get a better grip on whats going on. in this game http://www.joindota.com/vods/eswc-group-stage-monkey-vs-virus-245244 (monkey vs virus) @ around 34min (20min ingame) i saw the anti mage having poor mans shield and vanguard. do there effects stack? if im not completly wrong poor mans shield isnt used in anything, why would you buy both when youre not up against alot of melee harass?
theres most likely an obvious answer to this, but as i said, i mostly have no clue about whats going on
i also saw some games where the carries are running around with 6-7k gold at the end without picking up an item, if im not mistaken, there is a cooldown on buyback, why would a carry keep more money if he still could buy a good item (especially when there isnt much going on in the game)?
damage taken from a typical 300 damage nuke = 300*0.75*0.5 minus 15 healed from 1 charge of magic stick = 97.5
essentially this is what makes -damage reduction so strong in dota (think spectre, bristleback, old visage, antimage etcetc). its the cumulative reduction with additional flat 'mitigation' to boot
Just followed this AM guide won a game a man down from the 10 minute mark and a rax down by the 20 minute mark. Game went on for about 50 minutes and I managed to rice up to about 250 cs and out carried them hard.
Okay roped him down! Sorry this is a bit late but congratulations to EchelonTee and SilentchilL! You both win a nice shiny Beta Key courtesy of Bumblebee, and I hope you enjoy your escapades in DotA 2. There were many great posts, so this was definitely a hard choice to make, but there will be more key giveaways in the future so keep an eye out for any future DotA blogs by either Bumblebee or myself.
Wow man this was sick took me a couple of days to read it, well I splitted it up in periods;) But really detailed and best guide I have read so far out of every thing.
You made Anti-Mage be my favorite hero through this guide! Thanks and keep it coming it is highly appreciated!
I have a question about AM magic resistance. In original DotA, IIRC, in order for Hood of defiance's MR to add up with AM's skill granted MR you had to do it in a specific order. I think you had to build HoD before getting any levels on Spell shield for it to work (It might be the other way around, but you get the idea). Does this happen in dota 2 as well?
Just won a game hardcarrying as AM 70 minute game, I went 22/5/X while rest of my team was negative... felt great. So stressful though. Early game went 5-0 thanks to vengeful spirit, got a 15min Bfury, everything else went together. I would say that BKB is an ESSENTIAL item for late game; otherwise AM can get bursted by concentrated hexes/stuns.
On December 02 2011 14:58 zeehar wrote: flamewheel, what item do you suggest for becoming more tanky after getting the manta, because heart is a bit expensive? BKB?
BKB is a good choice. I honestly rarely get BKB on AM though, because I have the "I'm too noob to use active skills/items" complex. But actually, AM can easily tank stuns and stuff with Heart... you might want to consider just getting the Vitality booster first.
Also, more and more I favor building Battle Fury on Anti-Mage. It works wonders against enemy carries that build Manta Styles.
On December 02 2011 14:58 zeehar wrote: flamewheel, what item do you suggest for becoming more tanky after getting the manta, because heart is a bit expensive? BKB?
BKB is a good choice. I honestly rarely get BKB on AM though, because I have the "I'm too noob to use active skills/items" complex. But actually, AM can easily tank stuns and stuff with Heart... you might want to consider just getting the Vitality booster first.
Also, more and more I favor building Battle Fury on Anti-Mage. It works wonders against enemy carries that build Manta Styles.
haha.. i agree though, i forget/don't notice what item skills i have at times... even forgetting to use manta at times!
as per your suggestion in your OP i've skipped BF straight into manta when i haven't farmed particularly well/died a few times... but even so i should get BF regardless, especially if the enemy carry has a manta/uses illusions?
i love antimage, but in solo queue, whether im doing really well or bad, my team ends up losing. i have started experimenting builds that doesnt get battlefury in order for me to help out earlier.
does anyone have any tips? i've been running vanguard yasha early-mid game items for antimage nowadays.
AM is a hard carry. Only pick him when you know your team can support you in the laning phase and create space for you early so you can farm by split pushing and get online faster. Don't pick him if your team has other greedy picks like afk junglers.
AM gets online faster than most hard carries, don't bother trying to go a vanguard or whatever unless your team is stomping so hard the game will be over before you come online.
with his 1.2 str gain he is like the worst carry in pub games at the moment. It can be said that he can blink and crap but he is utterly useless like all the time/
i would not go am if you want to fight early, go pa or void instead. battlefury is almost a must on am because the main advantage of being am is that he can blink farm and without bf you lose so much efficiency (even a late bf is very very helpful on am as it speeds up your farm tremendously). not a very pub friendly carry.
Picked it recently because my team needed a carry and i felt am does decent against the enemy lineup, had to 1v1 a mirana most of early game which delayed my bf (i missed a bunch of cs early on). my team was losing lanes and behind on kills but i just kept on farming. have to be patient with this hero and only fight when you have to.
He's the best pub hard carry by far. Battlefury is a must 99% of the times. This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game. If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote: He's the best pub carry by far. Battlefury is a must 99% of the times. This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game. If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
beesa is an am god, if you have question ask him. i know i learned a lot from his tips/builds.
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote: He's the best pub hard carry by far. Battlefury is a must 99% of the times. This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game. If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage: - your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them - your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything - your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item
the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote: He's the best pub hard carry by far. Battlefury is a must 99% of the times. This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game. If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage: - your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them - your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything - your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item
the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?
last question: never imo, your hero already 6 slots faster than most carries do with midas and it delays your ability to actually be useful
the delay in battlefury delays your farm speed as much as the midas helps it, and antimage isn't too huge on needing levels, mostly just raw gold
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote: He's the best pub hard carry by far. Battlefury is a must 99% of the times. This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game. If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage: - your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them - your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything - your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item
the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?
- You optimize everything, Min-Max stuff, spread your cleave dmg so that all the creeps die together on last hit. cut trees with quelling for shorter paths. try to sneak in a Rosh, cut enemy creepwaves, learn the fastest farming routes for AM. Best way to help defend against 5man is trying to get lvl 11/16 and getting a rly good ulti off or blink-Mantaing a vunerable guy with a high manapool sometimes u just have to commit to a split push rly hard and force panic tps from enemies.
- Impossible lanes are fine. If i get 1v3ed I try to get only the creeps that i cant get 100% without taking too much dmg or dying, occasionally hit ez camp if u can.
- last time someone bitched that AM is useless and refused to support me, (i prefer 1v1 lanes to 1v2 or 1v3). i got like 80cs at 10min and 1k gpm, the next game i got the same guy, he and his friend trilaned for me.
-midas is a good item if ure 1v3ing and can get like nothing and ur gold per sec or w.e little last hits u get will save up enough for midas. but you do this if ur team is also not losing their lanes
The biggest reason people lose is bcoz they arent efficient enough. AM is all about timings. get ur battlefury 1-2min too late and u have a much larger chance of losing,
if u have free farm 60cs at 10 isnt enough, 80 is acceptable, 90-100 is ideal.
if ure dire, when u get treads/quelling/stout push the lane autoattack the creeps. this will take off pressure from other lanes, and if noone tps this will give a tower, what is also gives u is a free hardcamp every 1 min, optimize ur blinks so u dont miss any lane creep while hardcamping. cut the right tree for hard camp so that u take less dmg bcoz 1-2 of the creeps have to round around it.
if ure radiant, try to get med+ez, try to stack enemy ancients by blink over there if they dont have acnients farming heroes.
the fastest farming route is hard/med/ez in radiant jungle + bot lane creeps + dire ancients, u also get to check the rune on this route.
if u want to take rosh, make sure u get ancients first, so that u can take them again after rosh is dead if u have enough money, while roshing buy hyperstone/demonedge and sell it after 9 seconds. keep doing this. efficieny is key.
most AMs dont realise how much of a "skill based" spell blink is, they blink the wrong place to fight and die, they blink the wrong place to escape and die,
learn item builds/timings, for me the usual build in a game thats going well is
Heart is not a core item, BKB is more core. But Heart also has its uses, there's a few games were rushing Heart before Manta is wayyy better. I even went as far as going Battlefury -> Vlads -> Heart -> Mjollnir in one game, they had like Bat/Engima with refreshers and the only way I could do damage was to take the frontline and tank their shit with Mjollnir buff. Heart is also core against Doom, when you get doomed you have to stand your ground and fight back with it, reminder that AM spellshield ISNT disabled by doom. if you start running and dont stand ur ground u risk ur whole teams position, someone has to provide the front line or ur team will get run over. Eblade/Ghost are really useful. Enemy has a fed Clinkz thats snowballing, an Invoker and a support Naga? no problem Ghost will remove net, make coldsnap/forge useless, give you enough time for Orchid to run out. Eblade later on can 2-shot with ulti Storms/Tinkers/ShadowShamans/etc... Against QW invokers, get a magic stick, srsly.
you have to respect how fragile he is, learn his limits. learn which heroes u can manfight and which u cant. almost anything dies to blink-abyssal-manta-void at late game you have to learn match ups like AM vs SD in early/mid/late game. dont blink in like a retard, buy a ghost scepter if u need it, it gives u a free blink against SDs. if he tries to disrupt u to harass, instead of blinking away, blink on him. If TB reflects you, dont blink into trees just blink away for maximum distance towards safety. etc...
i went as far as making an AM only, Solo queue / First pick AM only account to get it to level 13 and try to get as much rating as i can doing that but i got lazy after my internet died and i got an abandon while i was 12-1 with an aegis.
never ever be burning, dont build fury before treads/pms/quelling. since the ti qualifiers, black has played the best AM.
the thing about AM isn't that he's bad, it's that there is absolutely no room for error. hes very based on narrow timing windows.
im bad at writing stuff. no im just lazy and dont bother with fixing the draft. I might add more stuff with edit over time, and eventually this post might become a sort of guide.
edit: i just realised i havent even talked about skill builds/
wow thanks a lot, all of this should be in a guide somewhere. Never thought to build heart before manta, eblade, or soloing roshan. By the way, when is it that you can attemp to solo roshan and with what items? I think I have the skill build figured out, spellshield against nukers in lane, more blink levels right before you get your battlefury, and not leveling mana break against shadow demon. Also, would you always try to not give rubick blink by using your ultimate on creeps?
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote: He's the best pub hard carry by far. Battlefury is a must 99% of the times. This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game. If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage: - your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them - your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything - your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item
the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?
- You optimize everything, Min-Max stuff, spread your cleave dmg so that all the creeps die together on last hit. cut trees with quelling for shorter paths. try to sneak in a Rosh, cut enemy creepwaves, learn the fastest farming routes for AM. Best way to help defend against 5man is trying to get lvl 11/16 and getting a rly good ulti off or blink-Mantaing a vunerable guy with a high manapool sometimes u just have to commit to a split push rly hard and force panic tps from enemies.
- Impossible lanes are fine. If i get 1v3ed I try to get only the creeps that i cant get 100% without taking too much dmg or dying, occasionally hit ez camp if u can.
- last time someone bitched that AM is useless and refused to support me, (i prefer 1v1 lanes to 1v2 or 1v3). i got like 80cs at 10min and 1k gpm, the next game i got the same guy, he and his friend trilaned for me.
-midas is a good item if ure 1v3ing and can get like nothing and ur gold per sec or w.e little last hits u get will save up enough for midas. but you do this if ur team is also not losing their lanes
The biggest reason people lose is bcoz they arent efficient enough. AM is all about timings. get ur battlefury 1-2min too late and u have a much larger chance of losing,
if u have free farm 60cs at 10 isnt enough, 80 is acceptable, 90-100 is ideal.
if ure dire, when u get treads/quelling/stout push the lane autoattack the creeps. this will take off pressure from other lanes, and if noone tps this will give a tower, what is also gives u is a free hardcamp every 1 min, optimize ur blinks so u dont miss any lane creep while hardcamping. cut the right tree for hard camp so that u take less dmg bcoz 1-2 of the creeps have to round around it.
if ure radiant, try to get med+ez, try to stack enemy ancients by blink over there if they dont have acnients farming heroes.
the fastest farming route is hard/med/ez in radiant jungle + bot lane creeps + dire ancients, u also get to check the rune on this route.
if u want to take rosh, make sure u get ancients first, so that u can take them again after rosh is dead if u have enough money, while roshing buy hyperstone/demonedge and sell it after 9 seconds. keep doing this. efficieny is key.
most AMs dont realise how much of a "skill based" spell blink is, they blink the wrong place to fight and die, they blink the wrong place to escape and die,
learn item builds/timings, for me the usual build in a game thats going well is
Heart is not a core item, BKB is more core. But Heart also has its uses, there's a few games were rushing Heart before Manta is wayyy better. I even went as far as going Battlefury -> Vlads -> Heart -> Mjollnir in one game, they had like Bat/Engima with refreshers and the only way I could do damage was to take the frontline and tank their shit with Mjollnir buff. Heart is also core against Doom, when you get doomed you have to stand your ground and fight back with it, reminder that AM spellshield ISNT disabled by doom. if you start running and dont stand ur ground u risk ur whole teams position, someone has to provide the front line or ur team will get run over. Eblade/Ghost are really useful. Enemy has a fed Clinkz thats snowballing, an Invoker and a support Naga? no problem Ghost will remove net, make coldsnap/forge useless, give you enough time for Orchid to run out. Eblade later on can 2-shot with ulti Storms/Tinkers/ShadowShamans/etc... Against QW invokers, get a magic stick, srsly.
you have to respect how fragile he is, learn his limits. learn which heroes u can manfight and which u cant. almost anything dies to blink-abyssal-manta-void at late game you have to learn match ups like AM vs SD in early/mid/late game. dont blink in like a retard, buy a ghost scepter if u need it, it gives u a free blink against SDs. if he tries to disrupt u to harass, instead of blinking away, blink on him. If TB reflects you, dont blink into trees just blink away for maximum distance towards safety. etc...
i went as far as making an AM only, Solo queue / First pick AM only account to get it to level 13 and try to get as much rating as i can doing that but i got lazy after my internet died and i got an abandon while i was 12-1 with an aegis.
never ever be burning, dont build fury before treads/pms/quelling. since the ti qualifiers, black has played the best AM.
the thing about AM isn't that he's bad, it's that there is absolutely no room for error. hes very based on narrow timing windows.
im bad at writing stuff. no im just lazy and dont bother with fixing the draft. I might add more stuff with edit over time, and eventually this post might become a sort of guide.
edit: i just realised i havent even talked about skill builds/
thank you so much. ill be practicing antimage and aim for those timings.
On June 28 2014 13:14 NeoRussia wrote: wow thanks a lot, all of this should be in a guide somewhere. Never thought to build heart before manta, eblade, or soloing roshan. By the way, when is it that you can attemp to solo roshan and with what items? I think I have the skill build figured out, spellshield against nukers in lane, more blink levels right before you get your battlefury, and not leveling mana break against shadow demon. Also, would you always try to not give rubick blink by using your ultimate on creeps?
usually vlads+fury+quelling+pms+treads is enough for rosh, might get hard if u get bashed multiple times, u can just go elsewhere lifesteal and come back anyway,
ive done ulting neutrals a few times when i see rubick coming to lane, at early levels only tho. it works 100% of the time no one expects to steal ulti from am, usually if they expect to steal blink they will not play it safe coz they assume theyll get away like np.
i have lots of different skill builds but dont feel like talking about it yet
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
As for second: the only way i can think of is farming up small and hard/medium (dire/radiant) every single minute. And even then with perfect lane cs and farming up 3 neutrals a minute (each minute), it is still 113 lh by 10:30 O_o
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
As for second: the only way i can think of is farming up small and hard/medium (dire/radiant) every single minute. And even then with perfect lane cs and farming up 3 neutrals a minute (each minute), it is still 113 lh by 10:30 O_o
Ya lol, 200 creeps or more in 20 minutes sounds reasonable on AM, but 90/100 in 10 seems a little too much .
edit: Well, I guess that if you have a free lane, getting 90 creeps is not that hard, but unfortunately I never get free farm lanes in pubs T_T. Usually I get around 70 creeps when 2v1, which I think is fine.
The problem I have with AM is that around 40% of the time my team loses between the time where I get Bfury and Manta, I guess I should learn to splitpush better.
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
riki isnt that much of a problem. if he does a bad cloud, that u can walk out of fast then do that and blink, if his cloud is too hard to walk out of, then just manfight him till it expires and then blink, usually with vlads u have enough armour to survive rikis inside cloud while u face him and hit him back. u can also always buy a ghost scepter
just get your team to put down some sents/obs and have a support to stay somewhat close by. riki is only good vs am whos teammates are useless or ams that should be fighting in cloud instead of trying to run out of it and getting backstabbed to death.
riki also have to invest alot of time into ganking into am and if you get a counter kill via sents/supports he probably wont try it again.
its not hard, if u watched navi vs eg game ud see how bad hvost item choices were. he built a heart?!!? why all he needed was a BKB. Reminder that BKB stops ET AURA 2nd best choice wudve been an AC.... but getting Heart, having 3k hp and 0 or negative armour is completely awful and u deserve to lose if u do that against an ET
edit: someone tested it in lobby and told me bkb doesnt work against aura, i assume they fixed it then coz it did when i tested it a year back. guess ac and a vlads on ur team is good enough
i really appreciate your write up, it gave me a few tips on improving my anti mage, but why are you building vlads everytime?
i always feel that i am just delaying the manta if i go vlads after bfury. and 15 min later i need to sell the vlads anyway for a better item.
vlads just gives you the ability to do rosh. but with a team you can go on him anyway. besides it takes way to long to kill rosh solo. i think another hero on your team should get vlads and giving up an item slot is no good on anti mage, because he caps so quickly.
On June 29 2014 21:32 myg_Adamska wrote: i really appreciate your write up, it gave me a few tips on improving my anti mage, but why are you building vlads everytime?
i always feel that i am just delaying the manta if i go vlads after bfury. and 15 min later i need to sell the vlads anyway for a better item.
vlads just gives you the ability to do rosh. but with a team you can go on him anyway. besides it takes way to long to kill rosh solo. i think another hero on your team should get vlads and giving up an item slot is no good on anti mage, because he caps so quickly.
imo going fury -> vlads -> manta is almost as fast as fury - > manta maybe a 2min difference tops. vlads is cool on am. it allows u to be full hp anywhere on the map. it opens up faster farming routes. with int treads swap and vlads mana regen u always have enough for more blinks while u save up for ulti/tp in important situations. u can do ancients without taking any dmg.
for example: say u are not going vlads and u are dire AM. u take dire ancients = lose 200hp take radiant hard camp = lose 70 hp take medium camp = lose 50hp take ez camp = lose 5 hp now u go to get the lane creeps? ure missing quite a bit of hp, this encournages enemies to kill u, so not having vlads means the intelligent choice is to not get that bot farm which in turn gives u less farm than u wud actually get with a vlads. the 2k gold investment pays for itself rly rly fast and does more
vlads also allows u to bully other carries like morph out of lane and take it from them. and makes u a better manfighter against stuff that dont care much about getting mana burned like lifestealer
from experience taking rosh takes a bit less than a min coz i do ancients first then rosh and by the time ive finished rosh its already time to do ancients again.
On June 29 2014 20:04 ChunderBoy wrote: having 3k hp and 0 or negative armour is completely awful and u deserve to lose if u do that against an ET
Funny how pro teams KEEP doing this, especially with morphling. So many games lost because a 6 slotted morphling gets blown up instantly against an elder titan. Very sad.
On June 29 2014 20:04 ChunderBoy wrote: having 3k hp and 0 or negative armour is completely awful and u deserve to lose if u do that against an ET
Funny how pro teams KEEP doing this, especially with morphling. So many games lost because a 6 slotted morphling gets blown up instantly against an elder titan. Very sad.
Can't wait for TB vs ET in pro games. TB getting blown up in a matter of milliseconds.
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
As for second: the only way i can think of is farming up small and hard/medium (dire/radiant) every single minute. And even then with perfect lane cs and farming up 3 neutrals a minute (each minute), it is still 113 lh by 10:30 O_o
Ya lol, 200 creeps or more in 20 minutes sounds reasonable on AM, but 90/100 in 10 seems a little too much .
edit: Well, I guess that if you have a free lane, getting 90 creeps is not that hard, but unfortunately I never get free farm lanes in pubs T_T. Usually I get around 70 creeps when 2v1, which I think is fine.
The problem I have with AM is that around 40% of the time my team loses between the time where I get Bfury and Manta, I guess I should learn to splitpush better.
You can get over 100 pretty easily if you are farming the neutrals in between killing waves. Treads/PMS is essential to letting you creep quicker. Treads/PMS/RoH let's you kill 2 camps and the lane by pushing the lane (autoing the creeps) then blinking back to the jungle and killing everything.
Chaunder mentioned it a bit. It can give the offlaner more exp/cs, but if he left then you get a free tower. This also means at about level 4 or so your supports can roam and do stuff elsewhere because you are pushing the lane and jungling hard. I find once you have the RoH/PMS you can lane pretty easily against just about any offlaner.
On June 29 2014 20:04 ChunderBoy wrote: its not hard, if u watched navi vs eg game ud see how bad hvost item choices were. he built a heart?!!? why all he needed was a BKB. Reminder that BKB stops ET AURA 2nd best choice wudve been an AC.... but getting Heart, having 3k hp and 0 or negative armour is completely awful and u deserve to lose if u do that against an ET
edit: someone tested it in lobby and told me bkb doesnt work against aura, i assume they fixed it then coz it did when i tested it a year back. guess ac and a vlads on ur team is good enough
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
As for second: the only way i can think of is farming up small and hard/medium (dire/radiant) every single minute. And even then with perfect lane cs and farming up 3 neutrals a minute (each minute), it is still 113 lh by 10:30 O_o
Ya lol, 200 creeps or more in 20 minutes sounds reasonable on AM, but 90/100 in 10 seems a little too much .
edit: Well, I guess that if you have a free lane, getting 90 creeps is not that hard, but unfortunately I never get free farm lanes in pubs T_T. Usually I get around 70 creeps when 2v1, which I think is fine.
The problem I have with AM is that around 40% of the time my team loses between the time where I get Bfury and Manta, I guess I should learn to splitpush better.
You can get over 100 pretty easily if you are farming the neutrals in between killing waves. Treads/PMS is essential to letting you creep quicker. Treads/PMS/RoH let's you kill 2 camps and the lane by pushing the lane (autoing the creeps) then blinking back to the jungle and killing everything.
Chaunder mentioned it a bit. It can give the offlaner more exp/cs, but if he left then you get a free tower. This also means at about level 4 or so your supports can roam and do stuff elsewhere because you are pushing the lane and jungling hard. I find once you have the RoH/PMS you can lane pretty easily against just about any offlaner.
Welp, i certainly need some practice on my last hitting skills. 105@12:56 (bf delivery timing). Did note that unless i leave to closer medium camp (on radiant) right after pushing out lane while creeps are 5 seconds of walking away or so from tower, i miss at least a single lane creep and more likely 2.
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
riki isnt that much of a problem. if he does a bad cloud, that u can walk out of fast then do that and blink, if his cloud is too hard to walk out of, then just manfight him till it expires and then blink, usually with vlads u have enough armour to survive rikis inside cloud while u face him and hit him back. u can also always buy a ghost scepter
Is the interaction beetween the two blinks the same as in DotA 1? I distinctly remember being able to blink "after" AM in DotA 1, his cast time was so slow, you could actually blinkstrike him mid-anim, and you would both end up where he tried to blink. I remember it being pretty annoying, as you simply couldn't escape on low hp. Though admittedly I haven't played riki vs am since I don't know when... (also i simply can't run DotA 2, so the mechanics behind it, may be completely different, i wouldn't know)
sometimes i get qb pre boots/roh if im 1v1 vs high damage melee. other times i get roh into qb because im 1v1ing a ranged whos harassing me. the good times when my teammate doesnt ditch me i get boots first and kill stuff.
riki vs am, if riki is snowballing ask for babysitting (aka hidding in fog/smoke behind you) or ask for sents to be put down. most ppl in ranked wants to win so they do/buy things if you ask. but sometimes you get hopeless teammates and you just have to play more carefully.
also i wouldnt worry about cs count and timings. just go with the flow. cant all be beesa lvl.
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?
edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush. edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
riki isnt that much of a problem. if he does a bad cloud, that u can walk out of fast then do that and blink, if his cloud is too hard to walk out of, then just manfight him till it expires and then blink, usually with vlads u have enough armour to survive rikis inside cloud while u face him and hit him back. u can also always buy a ghost scepter
Is the interaction beetween the two blinks the same as in DotA 1? I distinctly remember being able to blink "after" AM in DotA 1, his cast time was so slow, you could actually blinkstrike him mid-anim, and you would both end up where he tried to blink. I remember it being pretty annoying, as you simply couldn't escape on low hp. Though admittedly I haven't played riki vs am since I don't know when... (also i simply can't run DotA 2, so the mechanics behind it, may be completely different, i wouldn't know)
idk about cast times, but in dota2 AM blinks to max range if u target more than max range, in dota1 he does 4/5 of the range i think this is a bug that nvr got fixed that somehow became acceptable
On July 04 2014 04:53 HighTimeDotA wrote: sometimes i get qb pre boots/roh if im 1v1 vs high damage melee. other times i get roh into qb because im 1v1ing a ranged whos harassing me. the good times when my teammate doesnt ditch me i get boots first and kill stuff.
riki vs am, if riki is snowballing ask for babysitting (aka hidding in fog/smoke behind you) or ask for sents to be put down. most ppl in ranked wants to win so they do/buy things if you ask. but sometimes you get hopeless teammates and you just have to play more carefully.
also i wouldnt worry about cs count and timings. just go with the flow. cant all be beesa lvl.
i also go with the flow, in fact i have lots of different timings that i do in my head, i just cant write it all down articulately enough, so i just dont bother
builds: 1-1-1 stats the general build for if u start against an offlaner that then gets bullied out of lane with the help of ur support 2-1-1 stats my fav build atm, used for 1v1ing offlaners such as wr/weaver/clinkz/clock/et/centaur. the extra umpph u get from 12 more mana burn is rly good. 1-1-3 stats against darkseer? or rly tough dual lanes like sandking+lina (if u are soloing or get minimal help) 4-1-1 yes ive done this build, but very rarely. i remember doing it in a 2v1 against pudge/rubick and rubick/wk... somehow i managed to win both of those lanes and got kills and didnt get killed?!
when do u start leveling blink? i just try to synchronize lvl4 blink with getting a battlefury... not always tho, sometimes if im scared of dying to strong ganks ~3man i get more stats
a very key thing in winning 1v1 lanes, especially against stuff like windrunner/weaver/clinkz: if u blink the enemy then rightclick him. his creeps will aggro u and u will take like ~50 or more extra dmg from them, so when u are 500 range from enemy creeps, right click him then and there, then blink on him and rightclick him, u will have a 2 second grace period where enemy creeps wont hit u. beating weaver clinkz is ez, coz every blink+manabreak harass also forces them to use invis which in turn makes them run out of mana faster
well obviously you go with the flow lol but some posters above seemed to be set on getting that cs mark by whatever time and set on certain builds.
On July 04 2014 05:14 ChunderBoy wrote: a very key thing in winning 1v1 lanes, especially against stuff like windrunner/weaver/clinkz: if u blink the enemy then rightclick him. his creeps will aggro u and u will take like ~50 or more extra dmg from them, so when u are 500 range from enemy creeps, right click him then and there, then blink on him and rightclick him, u will have a 2 second grace period where enemy creeps wont hit u.
this is the kind of tactics that separates decent players from pro players. i almost always just blink and hit face (obviously try to avoid the creeps but never thought to mess with agro before going face)
On July 04 2014 05:19 HighTimeDotA wrote: well obviously you go with the flow lol but some posters above seemed to be set on getting that cs mark by whatever time and set on certain builds.
On July 04 2014 05:14 ChunderBoy wrote: a very key thing in winning 1v1 lanes, especially against stuff like windrunner/weaver/clinkz: if u blink the enemy then rightclick him. his creeps will aggro u and u will take like ~50 or more extra dmg from them, so when u are 500 range from enemy creeps, right click him then and there, then blink on him and rightclick him, u will have a 2 second grace period where enemy creeps wont hit u.
this is the kind of tactics that separates decent players from pro players. i almost always just blink and hit face (obviously try to avoid the creeps but never thought to mess with agro before going face)
i am actually mechanically not that good compared to pros. i just play rly smart i think?! rtz makes me look like a handicap that just learned how to use a braille keyboard... altho i think i cud get better if i practiced my mechanics, i think ive peaked, or im just not motivaited enough to push it to the next level coz for now i have no intentions of going pro, coz i need to finish my degree, also i passed uni this year so yay to that
On July 04 2014 05:19 HighTimeDotA wrote: well obviously you go with the flow lol but some posters above seemed to be set on getting that cs mark by whatever time and set on certain builds.
On July 04 2014 05:14 ChunderBoy wrote: a very key thing in winning 1v1 lanes, especially against stuff like windrunner/weaver/clinkz: if u blink the enemy then rightclick him. his creeps will aggro u and u will take like ~50 or more extra dmg from them, so when u are 500 range from enemy creeps, right click him then and there, then blink on him and rightclick him, u will have a 2 second grace period where enemy creeps wont hit u.
this is the kind of tactics that separates decent players from pro players. i almost always just blink and hit face (obviously try to avoid the creeps but never thought to mess with agro before going face)
i am actually mechanically not that good compared to pros. i just play rly smart i think?! rtz makes me look like a handicap that just learned how to use a braille keyboard... altho i think i cud get better if i practiced my mechanics, i think ive peaked, or im just not motivaited enough to push it to the next level coz for now i have no intentions of going pro, coz i need to finish my degree, also i passed uni this year so yay to that
start a "let beesa go to TI5" thread and show it to your parents. or if mason wins a bunch of cash at TI4 tell him to sponsor you lol.
When should I bother maxing Spell Shield Beesa? I vaguely recall some stuff around 1.5k HP (1560?) where more MR actually becomes better than more HP... But after listening to your example against hard offlaners or something like Doom on the field, should I just always max it after stats > Blink for Battle Fury timing > Mana Burn like any other normally would? Or is the method I've been following fine for some cases?
On July 04 2014 05:19 HighTimeDotA wrote: well obviously you go with the flow lol but some posters above seemed to be set on getting that cs mark by whatever time and set on certain builds.
On July 04 2014 05:14 ChunderBoy wrote: a very key thing in winning 1v1 lanes, especially against stuff like windrunner/weaver/clinkz: if u blink the enemy then rightclick him. his creeps will aggro u and u will take like ~50 or more extra dmg from them, so when u are 500 range from enemy creeps, right click him then and there, then blink on him and rightclick him, u will have a 2 second grace period where enemy creeps wont hit u.
this is the kind of tactics that separates decent players from pro players. i almost always just blink and hit face (obviously try to avoid the creeps but never thought to mess with agro before going face)
i am actually mechanically not that good compared to pros. i just play rly smart i think?! rtz makes me look like a handicap that just learned how to use a braille keyboard... altho i think i cud get better if i practiced my mechanics, i think ive peaked, or im just not motivaited enough to push it to the next level coz for now i have no intentions of going pro, coz i need to finish my degree, also i passed uni this year so yay to that
Pardon if you dont mind me asking but, I dont see how you're any "mechanically not that good compared to pros," what's so different about rtz. When I think of mechanics I think perfect last hitting, efficeint courier usage, using the gameclock effectively, etc., which you dont' seem to be a failure at by any measure. I guess what I mean is I don't see what rtz would do better than you were he to use the same hero. I've watched him and he does things that display his mechanical skill, but they're just things he learned by himself or through others that anyone else could just pick up too I suppose if they did the research.
Are you talking about micro type mechanics? like SC2 type things?
On June 29 2014 20:04 ChunderBoy wrote: its not hard, if u watched navi vs eg game ud see how bad hvost item choices were. he built a heart?!!? why all he needed was a BKB. Reminder that BKB stops ET AURA 2nd best choice wudve been an AC.... but getting Heart, having 3k hp and 0 or negative armour is completely awful and u deserve to lose if u do that against an ET
edit: someone tested it in lobby and told me bkb doesnt work against aura, i assume they fixed it then coz it did when i tested it a year back. guess ac and a vlads on ur team is good enough
On June 29 2014 20:04 ChunderBoy wrote: its not hard, if u watched navi vs eg game ud see how bad hvost item choices were. he built a heart?!!? why all he needed was a BKB. Reminder that BKB stops ET AURA 2nd best choice wudve been an AC.... but getting Heart, having 3k hp and 0 or negative armour is completely awful and u deserve to lose if u do that against an ET
edit: someone tested it in lobby and told me bkb doesnt work against aura, i assume they fixed it then coz it did when i tested it a year back. guess ac and a vlads on ur team is good enough
AM used to be amazing hero, gameplay and lore. now he just sucks especially after the blink nerf. pretty much made him only good for ratting. inferior to other heroes in all teamfights
On July 05 2014 19:46 Pandahunterz wrote: AM used to be amazing hero, gameplay and lore. now he just sucks especially after the blink nerf. pretty much made him only good for ratting. inferior to other heroes in all teamfights
The fact that he leads all heroes in item timings (esp the important fighting items for lategame carries) means he often fights at an advantage.
I think its more like he is unable to deal with a multi core lineup. And you pretty much need to go for at most 2 core with am because he requires so much space and eats up so much farm.
Am has never been the greatest at man fighting, and although he has superior farm, he is just unable to deal with multiple cores with decent farm alone.
Beesa pretty much answered that in the last couple of pages. Vlads keeps your health high while jungling, so it allows you to farm more aggressively and get more gold overall.
If you clear a round of ancients+jungle without a vlads and then go to a lane, you'll be missing ~350 hp in clear view of the enemy. Depending on how much they are able to hate on you, that might put you at risk of dying and so without vlads you have to do something less efficient.
Personally I can imagine situations where your team is putting on enough pressure that you can yasha vlads or yasha manta without losing efficiency, picking up the vlads when you start to extend your pattern.
He was advocating fury vlads in most cases, I think on the basis that there is always going to be some gold somewhere that you're safe to access with vlads but can't get safely without. It also lets you sneak rosh, which is a big deal in pubs but maybe less so in a pro game.
Anyone of the opinion that AM needs to be tweaked a bit, (not in that suggested game-breaking Mana Break change), but say change spellshield? I'm thinking to weaken it in terms of magic reduction, but make it an aura (if you want it to be passive) or make it a low-mana cost active that acts a bit like Pipe but no shield, just reduction or delayed reduction like Kunkka's ulti. This would make him much more viable for the current 5-man meta.
On July 23 2014 12:40 Caladbolg wrote: Anyone of the opinion that AM needs to be tweaked a bit, (not in that suggested game-breaking Mana Break change), but say change spellshield? I'm thinking to weaken it in terms of magic reduction, but make it an aura (if you want it to be passive) or make it a low-mana cost active that acts a bit like Pipe but no shield, just reduction or delayed reduction like Kunkka's ulti. This would make him much more viable for the current 5-man meta.
Keep in mind that the extra DPS and armor from Yasha can be enough for sustain as well, especially when you have taken a lot of points in stats instead of manabreak and shield. You just can't deal with big stacks or the golum ancients very well.
If you can get up to manta without buying vlads for sustain then there usually is no point in still getting vlads afterwards unless you wanna solo Rosh or there is a big ancient stack or something.
If AM gets buffed it would have to be slightly. He's actually not a weak hero at all, just has no comeback potential or margin for error. You either need relative free farm or lane kills, but if you get neither and your team falls behind early you can't really do that much without hitting a giant ult on some poor Skywrath. If you do get that early space though, no hero in CM can take over a game like an AM with 100 cs at 10 mins.
On July 23 2014 17:59 AwfuL_ wrote: Keep in mind that the extra DPS and armor from Yasha can be enough for sustain as well, especially when you have taken a lot of points in stats instead of manabreak and shield. You just can't deal with big stacks or the golum ancients very well.
If you can get up to manta without buying vlads for sustain then there usually is no point in still getting vlads afterwards unless you wanna solo Rosh or there is a big ancient stack or something.
Yasha gives you MS to farm faster as well. But I've seen pros pick up the ultimate orb from side shop first too.
it seems like the playstyle for this hero is set in stone for years and years now. I have a question about him:
- he has a couple very good mid matchups, is a strong ganker if he gets level advantage and is very good at contending runes.
- he can manfight alot of heroes during the midgame.
- his manabreak has the biggest impact early-midgame when caster based heroes dont have a big manapool
- he doesn't have a great steroid for late game like range/crit/as nor has he disables of his own besides manabreak which loses effectivness later on.
So my question is: Is there a powerful way to play a midgame magina who pressures the map more with ganks and splitpushing?
I tried it a few times and had my success with it. I didn't have as big items as I would farming (probably) but my team got objectives and mapcontrol so we could close the games out earlyer. Instead of going bfury I leave the ring and upgrade it later to a linkens (vanguard works too I guess) but rush yasha basher manta. It's pretty nasty what you can do with him if you take some smart aggressive risks. Keep in mind that afk farming is risky as well, just not for you personally but for the team.
On August 02 2014 23:13 clickrush wrote: it seems like the playstyle for this hero is set in stone for years and years now. I have a question about him:
- he has a couple very good mid matchups,
for example? Don't say Pudge. I think apart from a few weak melee heroes and Invoker there's not a single traditional mid that he can win 1v1 against.
On August 02 2014 23:13 clickrush wrote: it seems like the playstyle for this hero is set in stone for years and years now. I have a question about him:
- he has a couple very good mid matchups, is a strong ganker if he gets level advantage and is very good at contending runes.
- he can manfight alot of heroes during the midgame.
- his manabreak has the biggest impact early-midgame when caster based heroes dont have a big manapool
- he doesn't have a great steroid for late game like range/crit/as nor has he disables of his own besides manabreak which loses effectivness later on.
So my question is: Is there a powerful way to play a midgame magina who pressures the map more with ganks and splitpushing?
I tried it a few times and had my success with it. I didn't have as big items as I would farming (probably) but my team got objectives and mapcontrol so we could close the games out earlyer. Instead of going bfury I leave the ring and upgrade it later to a linkens (vanguard works too I guess) but rush yasha basher manta. It's pretty nasty what you can do with him if you take some smart aggressive risks. Keep in mind that afk farming is risky as well, just not for you personally but for the team.
AM scales with his low BAT, mobility, utility in Mana Break and potential damage with Mana Void. Imo he is fine as he is and won't evolve much in terms of gameplay style. In your situation, for example, I think a mid PA would work better if you want to have something that really scales at mid.
Unless they somehow figure a way to play AM without being too farm-dependent, and I don't think thats going to happen.
On August 02 2014 23:13 clickrush wrote: it seems like the playstyle for this hero is set in stone for years and years now. I have a question about him:
- he has a couple very good mid matchups, is a strong ganker if he gets level advantage and is very good at contending runes.
- he can manfight alot of heroes during the midgame.
- his manabreak has the biggest impact early-midgame when caster based heroes dont have a big manapool
- he doesn't have a great steroid for late game like range/crit/as nor has he disables of his own besides manabreak which loses effectivness later on.
So my question is: Is there a powerful way to play a midgame magina who pressures the map more with ganks and splitpushing?
I tried it a few times and had my success with it. I didn't have as big items as I would farming (probably) but my team got objectives and mapcontrol so we could close the games out earlyer. Instead of going bfury I leave the ring and upgrade it later to a linkens (vanguard works too I guess) but rush yasha basher manta. It's pretty nasty what you can do with him if you take some smart aggressive risks. Keep in mind that afk farming is risky as well, just not for you personally but for the team.
-I can't even think of any favorable match ups for AM vs popular mid heroes. If you want a blink hero for rune control and ganks, QoP is a much better pick. AM is a terrible ganker, He has no CC, no slow, no burst. That doesn't sound like a ganker to me at all.
-AM is paper thin early on, he's not going to man fight anybody without significant lv advantage, and even if he did AM is pretty easy to kite. There's a reason why most AM's won't really start committing to team fights before Heart (or at least Manta for the focus fire damage).
-Mana Break is a fantastic attack steroid, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. It doesn't fall off late game since it will scale with AS and manta, unless you're saying due to BKBs. Think about other hard carries like Spectre. Do people say he doesn't have a good attack steroid just because he only has Desolate, which also doesn't pierce BKB? Also consider that Mana Void damage also scales in a way due to enemy's increasing mana pool.
-If your team is steamrolling before you can farm up a BFury you can just get Vanguard and go push to end the game yes. Vanguard is nice to tank tower damage so you can push faster. Vlads is also nice for this situation. But this is a very rare situation.
Yeah so basically, I disagree with all your points LOL.
I asked for other non standard builds & items in the past on these forums and the answer was mostly the same --> battlefury & standard stuff afterwards. Looking back i'd say for good reason too, haha ±)
But if you really want to attempt mid AM in pubs i'd say (i pubscrub) go for it. I think drowlike hero' s will wreck antimage mid because they have a silence and slows, against pudgelike hero's it could maybe work well enough. I believe you could try to build around a manaburn timing. 64 manaburn is insanely high damage output where a diffusalblade lvl 2 only grants 35 manaburn per hit. I think i would try to itemize something like this : "magic immunity+attackspeed+ lifesteal+midgame lockdown". The manaburns from antimage is lifeleech-able with an aura, but maybe a mom could be better suited then a vlads because it grants more manaburns with 100 AS and 30% movementspeed.
You can switch the purchase orders, but i would try something like PMS+bottle+PT+mom+bkb into a basher. Lategame i'd say AC and/or butterfly because both grant more attackspeed and survivability and that is what i went for in the first place. Seems gimmicky but i cant think of any better mid antimage build atm then stated in this post, maybe that says it all
E: seems lifesteal on mom dont work at all so vlads is it.
am is much stronger in early 1on1 situations while maxing manabreak than some of the posters here give him credit for. there are certainly good and bad matchups, but some well timed aggression can have a huge impact because mana is so important for a lot of mids to keep control of the lane. like just a couple, let us say 2-3 hits with manabreak are equivalent to a spell cost of a high damage nuke. also don't forget that it's the str gain which is low not his base str.
anyways my question was not mainly about playing him mid, allthough he profits alot from levels, it's more about playing him more gank oriented. while other's farm their blink he can farm a bit more for pt + yasha and search for trouble. and again: that early in the game, you make people oom in just a few hits if you count in the fact that they dont allways have full mana. In alot of early/midgame situations the mana bar has a huge impact on alot of heroes. alot of poeple have tons of tryhard experience with the current playstile, which is like the only way ppl play him for years and years with not so much success.
Nothing beats AM's ability to be split pushing and cutting waves once you have manta and battlefury, gimping your item build to be able to do more hero damage early is really inefficient, even when you just compare the price of a possible hero kill to killing waves of creeps and towers. Changing your item build won't save you your own towers either.
On August 03 2014 10:54 clickrush wrote: am is much stronger in early 1on1 situations while maxing manabreak than some of the posters here give him credit for. there are certainly good and bad matchups, but some well timed aggression can have a huge impact because mana is so important for a lot of mids to keep control of the lane. like just a couple, let us say 2-3 hits with manabreak are equivalent to a spell cost of a high damage nuke. also don't forget that it's the str gain which is low not his base str.
anyways my question was not mainly about playing him mid, allthough he profits alot from levels, it's more about playing him more gank oriented. while other's farm their blink he can farm a bit more for pt + yasha and search for trouble. and again: that early in the game, you make people oom in just a few hits if you count in the fact that they dont allways have full mana. In alot of early/midgame situations the mana bar has a huge impact on alot of heroes. alot of poeple have tons of tryhard experience with the current playstile, which is like the only way ppl play him for years and years with not so much success.
Get PT and Yasha and search for trouble? If you blink in and try to man fight somebody it's the AM that will be in trouble. Blink is AM's escape mechanism. AM is paper thin early on, and I don't possibly see how you can drain somebody's mana fast enough where they wouldn't be able to react and actually use their spells regardless.
Now if you just wanted to goof off and do something different, then I could possibly see him being somewhat effective in an early pushing line-up with Vanguard. If you want AM to be engaging in any fights early on then you absolutely MUST build him tanky, otherwise he's just going to melt. But stop trying to make him a ganker. He's a bad ganker, period.
On August 03 2014 10:54 clickrush wrote: am is much stronger in early 1on1 situations while maxing manabreak than some of the posters here give him credit for. there are certainly good and bad matchups, but some well timed aggression can have a huge impact because mana is so important for a lot of mids to keep control of the lane. like just a couple, let us say 2-3 hits with manabreak are equivalent to a spell cost of a high damage nuke. also don't forget that it's the str gain which is low not his base str.
anyways my question was not mainly about playing him mid, allthough he profits alot from levels, it's more about playing him more gank oriented. while other's farm their blink he can farm a bit more for pt + yasha and search for trouble. and again: that early in the game, you make people oom in just a few hits if you count in the fact that they dont allways have full mana. In alot of early/midgame situations the mana bar has a huge impact on alot of heroes. alot of poeple have tons of tryhard experience with the current playstile, which is like the only way ppl play him for years and years with not so much success.
Just try antimage mid and adapt your skill/itembuild along the way, dont forget that most people will dislike any non standard build until a pro shows it can be done and sometimes rightfully so too. You can try to play him a bit like a shadowfiend who also goes mid alot in pubgames. Who knows could be new meta after the next patch, you'd be the first and we call you professor magina!
I.e. I never saw blink naturesprophet, support wraithking, sandking mid or support meepo as an acceptable build by the community until a pro showed us it could be done. I wonder how many reports your antimage mid is gonna get until a pro sees the same potential in antimage mid
I've seen some AM go for midgame builds when behind, it's decent, certainly better than bloodseeker forcestaff or carry jungler. The transition is rather awful though. I think it can be a good idea in 4/5 cores pubs line ups.
On August 03 2014 10:54 clickrush wrote: am is much stronger in early 1on1 situations while maxing manabreak than some of the posters here give him credit for. there are certainly good and bad matchups, but some well timed aggression can have a huge impact because mana is so important for a lot of mids to keep control of the lane. like just a couple, let us say 2-3 hits with manabreak are equivalent to a spell cost of a high damage nuke. also don't forget that it's the str gain which is low not his base str.
anyways my question was not mainly about playing him mid, allthough he profits alot from levels, it's more about playing him more gank oriented. while other's farm their blink he can farm a bit more for pt + yasha and search for trouble. and again: that early in the game, you make people oom in just a few hits if you count in the fact that they dont allways have full mana. In alot of early/midgame situations the mana bar has a huge impact on alot of heroes. alot of poeple have tons of tryhard experience with the current playstile, which is like the only way ppl play him for years and years with not so much success.
He simply doesn't offer anything that leads me to think he could be a good mid or a good ganker. You are more than welcome to try it out, because it couldn't hurt. There is a possibility that he could be played in different ways, but I am hard pressed to believe that they would be as good as the current style.
On August 03 2014 10:54 clickrush wrote: am is much stronger in early 1on1 situations while maxing manabreak than some of the posters here give him credit for. there are certainly good and bad matchups, but some well timed aggression can have a huge impact because mana is so important for a lot of mids to keep control of the lane. like just a couple, let us say 2-3 hits with manabreak are equivalent to a spell cost of a high damage nuke. also don't forget that it's the str gain which is low not his base str.
anyways my question was not mainly about playing him mid, allthough he profits alot from levels, it's more about playing him more gank oriented. while other's farm their blink he can farm a bit more for pt + yasha and search for trouble. and again: that early in the game, you make people oom in just a few hits if you count in the fact that they dont allways have full mana. In alot of early/midgame situations the mana bar has a huge impact on alot of heroes. alot of poeple have tons of tryhard experience with the current playstile, which is like the only way ppl play him for years and years with not so much success.
Just try antimage mid and adapt your skill/itembuild along the way, dont forget that most people will dislike any non standard build until a pro shows it can be done and sometimes rightfully so too. You can try to play him a bit like a shadowfiend who also goes mid alot in pubgames. Who knows could be new meta after the next patch, you'd be the first and we call you professor magina!
I.e. I never saw blink naturesprophet, support wraithking, sandking mid or support meepo as an acceptable build by the community until a pro showed us it could be done. I wonder how many reports your antimage mid is gonna get until a pro sees the same potential in antimage mid
Which there isn't. Without manta he doesn't do damage quickly enough so he can't gank. He can farm against most melee mids but if an enemy support as much as walks by he will be instantly zoned out. He can't farm the wave from a distance with an AoE nuke like SF can. And he can't farm stacks until he has BF and lifesteal (or an extra $5000 item).
On the other hand the support potential of a hero with an 8sec cd stun or the potential of buying a blink on a hero that splitpushes and relies heavily on positioning in teamfights because he's so squishy was always obvious.
And of course, none of his matters in low-average MMR games.
Antimage mid has been used in a high profile match: LGD vs Forlove in 2012 gleague
It definitely *can* work, but here it wasn't ideal: the NS pressured AM too much, along with support rotations. Though Tutu didn't die, he had no cs at all and FL was way behind for a lot of the game.
In short, put him vs a Mag, Clock, or some weak melee hero and AM will win the lane handily and have 70 cs+ at 10 mins. It's definitely better on Radiant because you can auto wave down -> medium camp -> auto wave -> hard camp, just like you would in the safelane. Dire camps are much further apart unfortunately. Once AM has treads/roh though he's not going to want to get any non dd/illusion rune as that will cut into farming time, so other teammates would need to cover that or just give them up. He also offers no threat to other lanes, but can get kills easily if supports rotate. Just imagine you're running a much less flexible Morph/Naga mid who needs to have a good matchup. Keep in mind though that just because he's mid doesn't mean hes a Storm or something. AM is not a ganker (lol), he's one of the 3 fastest farmers and a monster after 30 minutes. Go treads/pms/qb/roh -> battlefury and the usual build. The only time you ever, ever, want to consider something like Vanguard->Manta is if the enemy team is going allin on killing you pre-Manta, like running Bat/Storm/Qop for example. In that case slow farming is irrelevant because you auto beat their cores after 25 minutes, and just need to survive that long.
When I'm smurfing/showing friends stuff on lower level accounts I'll almost always go AM mid, as it's much more guaranteed freefarm even in hard matchups; the exception is if they have a weak solo offlaner like Clock (meaning a jungler and some weak safelane carry like a spectre). Just had a mid 3k game where I got 71/10m against a Brew, which is not the easiest matchup, and ended a pretty 1v9 game at 34 mins with 430 cs. If I had went safelane we probably would have lost, as they ran a dual offlane which basically means my team will leave me underleveled, probably feed, and I won't get much farm anyway.
Basically as AM you just want to figure out where is the fastest lane you can get a battlefury in, and subordinate your team to that decision. That means safelane normally, unless you're dodging offensive tri's/strong dual lanes if your supports suck or you have a useless jungle lifestealer etc. Even shaving off a minute on that battlefury timing will often turn defeat into victory.
requesting help for building against kunkka. should i skip manta after bfury and rush a bkb? or just get good and learn to dodge torrents with manta?
also against stuff like skywrath, should i max shield asap/by level 11? like 141 into 144 or 114 into 144? i would think shield scales better against skywrath since his silence -resistance? or just for example in general if enemy have lots of nukes, does that call for max shield by 11?
I'd say it'd be better to learn to watch your positioning and not get X'd alone than rush a BKB just for Kunkka. What are you going to do, blow a BKB charge every time you get X'd? Just try not to get X'd.
Unless you're actually laning against skywrath, I would think that the burning 1-1-1 stats build would be more efficient at surviving in general. If skywrath is really bullying you in lane, one or two extra levels in spell shield might be worth it, but at that point, what are you still doing in that lane? If the enemy team has multiple high power nukers, then you might consider a 1-1-4.
On August 30 2014 04:03 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: I'd say it'd be better to learn to watch your positioning and not get X'd alone than rush a BKB just for Kunkka. What are you going to do, blow a BKB charge every time you get X'd? Just try not to get X'd.
Unless you're actually laning against skywrath, I would think that the burning 1-1-1 stats build would be more efficient at surviving in general. If skywrath is really bullying you in lane, one or two extra levels in spell shield might be worth it, but at that point, what are you still doing in that lane? If the enemy team has multiple high power nukers, then you might consider a 1-1-4.
You can probably manta out of the X if you time it right. I know with disruptor if you pop manta right as Glimpse is about to bring you back you can break it. I'm at work so I can't try it out, but I'm fairly sure its possible. If it's like the Glimpse timing it's not too hard to break it.
Well the x-timing with manta is funny because he can x you back at any time. If X is high enough level to let him do it before you blink away, then you are kinda trying to guess his timing on torrent etc. If X is level 2 you should be able to blink pre-x (not always but whatever have some map awareness).
On August 30 2014 03:17 zelphin wrote: requesting help for building against kunkka. should i skip manta after bfury and rush a bkb? or just get good and learn to dodge torrents with manta?
also against stuff like skywrath, should i max shield asap/by level 11? like 141 into 144 or 114 into 144? i would think shield scales better against skywrath since his silence -resistance? or just for example in general if enemy have lots of nukes, does that call for max shield by 11?
In my experience it's very open to the flow of the game. Against a skywrath I probably wouldn't get much more than 2 points in stats if I was under a bunch of pressure I'd max spell shield before mana break, but I'd still probably get 2 points of Q. The thing is, the Q is what lets you jump on people w/ manta and kill them really fast by ulting. If you have 1 point in Q then you can't drain the mana as fast. However if there is no one that really applies to, and there is a skywrath hunting you all game, then yeah, spell shield/stats might be more valuable than >2 points in Q.
I find my skilling can vary a lot on game depending on what's going to be killing me, or if I'm under pressure. Generally no pressure = Q first, high pressure from magic damage = E first, high pressure from physical ultimate orb before yasha and upgrade stats until your manta is done. This would be against someone like a clinkz who can sneak up on you and orchid you, then dish out DPS. You just need to survive through the orchid so you can blink TP.
In any game though, blink should be first your skill maxed, but you can vary 1-2 levels in your Q/stats before maxing blink if the situation calls for it.
On August 30 2014 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote: Well the x-timing with manta is funny because he can x you back at any time. If X is high enough level to let him do it before you blink away, then you are kinda trying to guess his timing on torrent etc. If X is level 2 you should be able to blink pre-x (not always but whatever have some map awareness).
No you misunderstood me. You get X'd it starts counting down X 1 2 3 4 As 4 is hitting, you hit the manta and it should break the X from pulling you back. It 100% works on disruptor glimpse, and most likely works on X. I just can't test it right now.
To expand without making another post. Generally if you are getting ganked by someone with silence/glimpse you should hold your manta and just try to blink and run away. If they manage to silence/glimpse you then you pop manta to break silence, or interrupt the glimpse then blink away to safety.
If it's anything else like a doom. As soon as you see them on the mini map, you instapop your manta to give you time to use your blink away. IE: If you see a blink doom coming up on your on the minimap and he's just in range to blink/doom you. you pop the manta (instant) then go to blink, so he can't blink --> click you during animation of your blink. Same goes for people like lion/shadow shaman who try to blink hex. You want to not allow them to easy hex you and force them to impale which has an animation. It's why you pop the manta. Or in the case of Rhasta, you let him hex an illusion and you get away safely.
Hm I had no idea you could time Manta to dodge Glimpse/X. Going to have to try that out. I'm guessing you'd need a lot of practice to consistently dodge the X's due to the varying time. I guess you can gauge it based on the range when it is casted on you?
Still though I think the much better advice is just to be constantly watching the minimap. There are going to be times when you haven't got your Manta yet or it is on CD from farming the jungle or whatever, plus Manta dodging is not a riskless proposition to begin with. I also think that AM's who are in the full on split-pushing phase of the game to not be stingy and buy wards so you have vision of gank paths. The cost of the wards quickly pays for itself if it prevents even one death or allows even a few extra seconds of farming.
On August 30 2014 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote: Well the x-timing with manta is funny because he can x you back at any time. If X is high enough level to let him do it before you blink away, then you are kinda trying to guess his timing on torrent etc. If X is level 2 you should be able to blink pre-x (not always but whatever have some map awareness).
No you misunderstood me. You get X'd it starts counting down X 1 2 3 4 As 4 is hitting, you hit the manta and it should break the X from pulling you back. It 100% works on disruptor glimpse, and most likely works on X. I just can't test it right now.
No, you misunderstood me. The timing on X varies depending on the level plus kunkka can change the timing manually by recalling. So while glimpse is predictable and counterable, X is much harder to counter because you have to time it simultaneous to your opponent's instant-cast ability and/or the expiration of X which you don't even know the timing on since you can't see how many levels they have in it.
Yes its possible but it bears little resemblance to the glimpse interaction because you have to guess the timing instead of knowing for sure.
Another option is to accept the X pullback, attempt to manta the torrent (timed based on the cast animation of torrent which is constant), then blink away. However this may not work as the simple act of getting X'd back may be too much for you to survive.
ya.. so to the original question, is it worth getting bkb after fury or fury yasha simply for the ability to farm more aggressively? fuck bkb charges anyway, doesnt feel that important for me imo.
On August 30 2014 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote: Well the x-timing with manta is funny because he can x you back at any time. If X is high enough level to let him do it before you blink away, then you are kinda trying to guess his timing on torrent etc. If X is level 2 you should be able to blink pre-x (not always but whatever have some map awareness).
No you misunderstood me. You get X'd it starts counting down X 1 2 3 4 As 4 is hitting, you hit the manta and it should break the X from pulling you back. It 100% works on disruptor glimpse, and most likely works on X. I just can't test it right now.
No, you misunderstood me. The timing on X varies depending on the level plus kunkka can change the timing manually by recalling. So while glimpse is predictable and counterable, X is much harder to counter because you have to time it simultaneous to your opponent's instant-cast ability and/or the expiration of X which you don't even know the timing on since you can't see how many levels they have in it.
Yes its possible but it bears little resemblance to the glimpse interaction because you have to guess the timing instead of knowing for sure.
Another option is to accept the X pullback, attempt to manta the torrent (timed based on the cast animation of torrent which is constant), then blink away. However this may not work as the simple act of getting X'd back may be too much for you to survive.
The X Return or whatever the hell it's called is not instant cast, it uses Kukka's normal cast time I believe. Kunkka could probably do a cast-stop fake cast to trick you into using Manta first though. THE MINDGAMES.
On August 30 2014 05:49 zelphin wrote: so still fury manta bkb?
BKB on AM is very much a "I have to fight right fucking now and I can't fight with any other item except BKB" type item. Its really fucking awful but sometimes u just have to buy it.
Heart is bkb only preferable whenever you can afford to not bkb. It also makes ur illusions surprisingly good at slow-sieging bases.
Insert those survivability items wherever necessary in the dmg progression of Treads/Bfury/Manta/Bfly/Abyssal. Usually. Sometimes abyssal has to be before bfly. Yes u can buy vlads and solo rosh somewhere in there too if u want.
On August 30 2014 05:34 zelphin wrote: ya.. so to the original question, is it worth getting bkb after fury or fury yasha simply for the ability to farm more aggressively? fuck bkb charges anyway, doesnt feel that important for me imo.
If they have something that makes an anti-mage with mana regen afraid to farm places on the map you're probably fucked even with BKB and shouldn't have picked it in the first place
BKB is teamfight teamfight teamfight, if you're not using it to teamfight it's wasted.
On August 30 2014 05:34 zelphin wrote: ya.. so to the original question, is it worth getting bkb after fury or fury yasha simply for the ability to farm more aggressively? fuck bkb charges anyway, doesnt feel that important for me imo.
If they have something that makes an anti-mage with mana regen afraid to farm places on the map you're probably fucked even with BKB and shouldn't have picked it in the first place
BKB is teamfight teamfight teamfight, if you're not using it to teamfight it's wasted.
uh.. ok?? so im asking for stategies to deal with a counter pick and you tell me yada yada yada i shouldnt have picked it in the first place?
do you give these kind of responses to people asking for ta vs viper/razor matchups too? lol.
i mean this is actually unbelievable to hear, in a dota game 9/10 of the heroes face the risk of being counter picked in some form.
On August 30 2014 05:34 zelphin wrote: ya.. so to the original question, is it worth getting bkb after fury or fury yasha simply for the ability to farm more aggressively? fuck bkb charges anyway, doesnt feel that important for me imo.
If they have something that makes an anti-mage with mana regen afraid to farm places on the map you're probably fucked even with BKB and shouldn't have picked it in the first place
BKB is teamfight teamfight teamfight, if you're not using it to teamfight it's wasted.
uh.. ok?? so im asking for stategies to deal with a counter pick and you tell me yada yada yada i shouldnt have picked it in the first place?
do you give these kind of responses to people asking for ta vs viper/razor matchups too? lol.
i mean this is actually unbelievable to hear, in a dota game 9/10 of the heroes face the risk of being counter picked in some form.
It's not unbelievable to hear. I mean, if you want a "strategy" vs counter-picks or w/e it would be to play conservatively and get to 5-6 slot ASAP with the standard build, which I guess would probably be faster with yasha (manta/bfury/heart/bfly + 1, mebbe vlad's on the side) but there's not much you can do. It's like asking "what items on storm can I get if there's a void and a doom on the other team" - the answer is NO item will fucking help you. Just don't be retarded and run into them when they have chrono/doom off cd.
Stop overreacting when your silly question will never ever have a simple "get X item" answer.
That's why I said +1 in the standard build, make it a bkb, shivas, eblade, I don't care
The point is if you're that afraid of these heroes just don't blink into their part of the map and expect to get off scot-free, and if you want to spend a BKB charge on that instead of in the next teamfight then feel free to do so
If you rush BKB right after bfury, you've spent 3750 gold on an item that won't help you farm at all. BKB is a fighting item, and unless your team is structured around it, an AM with a bfury and a BKB is still going to make almost no impact in a teamfight. So if all you use your BKB for is to run from a Kunkka, you're wasting a lot of time and gold. Instead, it would be much better to try and gain better map awareness so that you don't even encounter an experience where you're getting X'd and killed by kunkka+team. Farm your jungle, watch the map and farm the lane when the kunkka is elsewhere. If they're running into your jungle and you have no ward coverage, that's just another issue.
On August 30 2014 08:33 zelphin wrote: what. noone skips bkb when against kunkka the question is whether to get it asap after fury. whatever.
No top carry goes anything but bfury (often vlads) Manta -> heart/bkb/bfly. Burning Sylar Hao Black all do the same early item progression. BKB before Manta is garbage since you don't do any damage without Manta anyway and it kills your farming acceleration.
BKB is also much much worse in low level pub games (probably anything less than 4.5-5k) because your team's disables won't be on point and the enemy will just kite you. the entire point of BKB is that your team holds them in place, you can't be stopped and just murder them one by one. The need for it is also less in those games, because you can bait your team and the enemy won't be smart enough to hold their spells just for you usually.
because they are discussing getting bkb as a situational item against a hero like kunkka, and most of the time a heart will be better. Hence why mentioning bkb being worse than a heart is relevant to the discussion at hand.
AM with the manta will be hard to kill if they have less than 3 heroes going for you, or someone with insane lockdown like lion/ss coming to join the party with the kunkka.
and yeah, sorry sn0man, I misundestood you. I never play kunkka and didn't realize it functioned like that.
On August 30 2014 05:14 Sn0_Man wrote: No, you misunderstood me. The timing on X varies depending on the level plus kunkka can change the timing manually by recalling. So while glimpse is predictable and counterable, X is much harder to counter because you have to time it simultaneous to your opponent's instant-cast ability and/or the expiration of X which you don't even know the timing on since you can't see how many levels they have in it.
Semi-related, but there actually is a trick to deduce the skill rank for a skill that has variable range on ranks. If you select their hero and mouse over the skill icon, it displays the range indicator for the current rank of the skill. With reasonable knowledge of ranges, you can pretty easily figure out what rank of X Kunkka has.
Everything else you said still stands though.
On August 30 2014 06:00 Sn0_Man wrote: BKB on AM is very much a "I have to fight right fucking now and I can't fight with any other item except BKB" type item. Its really fucking awful but sometimes u just have to buy it.
Heart is bkb only preferable whenever you can afford to not bkb. It also makes ur illusions surprisingly good at slow-sieging bases.
Heart vs. BKB is a matter of teamcomps more than what you described.
Essentially, when considering the two, you have to ask the question "are fights decided by maximizing my damage dealt in the first 4-10 seconds of the fight"? If yes, then BKB is reasonable. If no, Heart is probably better given it's superiority in sieging, split-pushing, non-teamfight situations, longer drawn-out fights, etc.
The answer is usually only yes in teamcomps with big teamfight disable heroes like Mag or Enigma where you kind of just want to cleave-kill a ton of people right away when fights happen.
>Burning Sylar Hao Black all do the same early item progression< they dont, i like blacks one bkb vs heart is mainly an experience/feel thing... u will know which one to get if u play enough games. but against stuff like doom u always go heart
On August 31 2014 03:11 ChunderBoy wrote: >Burning Sylar Hao Black all do the same early item progression< they dont, i like blacks one bkb vs heart is mainly an experience/feel thing... u will know which one to get if u play enough games. but against stuff like doom u always go heart
Well Black goes treads first so you can farm neutral camps after pushing waves in laning phase while some of the others do that terrible naked bfury rush, but all of them will go bfury (vlads) manta heart or bkb/sometimes bfly every game, not bfury bkb crap.
On August 30 2014 08:33 zelphin wrote: what. noone skips bkb when against kunkka the question is whether to get it asap after fury. whatever.
No top carry goes anything but bfury (often vlads) Manta -> heart/bkb/bfly. Burning Sylar Hao Black all do the same early item progression. BKB before Manta is garbage since you don't do any damage without Manta anyway and it kills your farming acceleration.
BKB is also much much worse in low level pub games (probably anything less than 4.5-5k) because your team's disables won't be on point and the enemy will just kite you. the entire point of BKB is that your team holds them in place, you can't be stopped and just murder them one by one. The need for it is also less in those games, because you can bait your team and the enemy won't be smart enough to hold their spells just for you usually.
There was a pro game were an Anti-Mage built BF --> BKB before Manta. I'll see if I can find the replay.
Btw, I tested the vlads manta vyse build. Its fun but is extremely hard to farm as AM without a BF past the laning phase. If you don't have free farm, don't ever go for it as you won't be able to outfarm your opponent.
Just did a pub game on my test smurf account to see how Anti-Mage feels on this new patch. Never saw a need for bkb. Though I really wish I could tell my smurf's account normal unranked mmr. Some games it feels like it's not too below my normal account already, other games we get team compositions like my anti-mage game.
But even against a team with venomancer, jakiro, pudge, skywrath and techies for magic damage and disable, I never felt the need for a bkb. Here is link.
On November 26 2014 06:51 SoylentGamer wrote: KuroKY went Maelstrom after vlad's, but then again that was Captain's Draft, and this is Kuro we're talking about.
I think this is a really interesting idea. The lighting gives you sudo cleave. You don't have the regen from BF but if you get an early vlads before the maelstrom you are ok and total cost is about the same but you have better early game items. Maybe need a CM on the team (he had one in his game) to get the needed mana regen for constant blinking. I think it could be a good plan for when you are going to be getting too slow of a battle fury. The vlads really helps you early on and lets you go to the jungle much sooner so you dont get completely shut down in lane.
I think its generally inferior to the battlefury in terms of farming efficiency. It's a way better combat item though. I've thought about lategame switching the BF for an MJ because you can still push out waves pretty fast and the raw attack speed and active on an AM is really nice.
That captains draft game was situational. He did it because he had to get the vlads first because he was under pressure. I don't think he would of went it if he could of gotten a reasonably timed BF. As mentioned above, the lack of int regen will result in a lot more base trips than you would usually want to make which will further hurt your farming/split push efficiency.
I looked up the game: He had under 40cs at 10 minutes, so quite the crappy laning phase. Also, a CM which was mentioned earlier.
So I'm 3.5k player trying to play more antimage. I have had success getting a battlefury around 15min or so and then finishing treads, yasha, manta by like 20-25min or so. This seems pretty good for my level but then I dont really know what to do as the hero. I can split push all day and keep the lanes pushed but i really struggle trying to contribute in teamfights or taking objectives.
My question is what should my mentality be? Do I need more key items to fight beyond the manta in the progression I mentioned? Should I just stop trying to fight? Should my targeting in fights solo be supports vs cores?
I'm sure that I am missing something about his play style.
Your teamfight strength is highest one item after Manta. Manta is when you start being generally strong, but as a full-on 5v5 teamfighter you need Heart to make you and your illusions sufficiently bulky as to be hard to deal with or a 10s BKB to make you unmanageable.
Manta is when you start being able to really do stuff, but teamfighting proactively only really kicks in 1 item after that.
On January 30 2015 13:21 TheYango wrote: Your teamfight strength is highest one item after Manta. Manta is when you start being generally strong, but as a full-on 5v5 teamfighter you need Heart to make you and your illusions sufficiently bulky as to be hard to deal with or a 10s BKB to make you unmanageable.
Manta is when you start being able to really do stuff, but teamfighting proactively only really kicks in 1 item after that.
Thats interesting. I was under the impression I should be going damage/chase after manta, specifically I had been trying basher. This was a decision I was definitely not confident about. I will try getting a tanky item like heart or bkb next there. Thanks for suggestion.
Those are good timings on BF and Manta. Heart is considered the "gold standard" after Manta (<30 mins is a good timing for Heart), with BKB as a situational item (you typically don't want to have to get BKB as AM).
You can fight with Manta but you're still pretty squishy at that point so it is one of those "proceed with caution" types of things, but if you think you can survive Manta is basically when AM's offense comes online as he can pop manta on top of someone and blow them up with Mana Void. Most likely however want to continue to put pressure on the enemy team by split pushing at this point (if the enemy team groups up and takes a tower but you get a tower trade in return that is a good trade unless your team feeds as well).
If you're forced to fight you should stay on the sidelines and wait for the fight to develop and bit, paying attention to what skills are still available from the opposing team and jump in when you think you have a window. Generally target the highest priority target you think you can burst down, being mindful of how Mana Void damage calculation works.
Basher/blfy/BKB/Heart are all viable after manta. Not an AM player myself but I'd say BKB/Heart for more when you're behind. Basher for fighting/killing but only if you're in a good/ahead position. If you're behind you're likely not in position to run in and bash stuff without getting blown up. Bfly is the best way to extend a lead, no one is gonna catch up to you farm-wise with a bfly. But likely the weakest fighting option.
Bash after Manta is stronger if there's a single specific hero you have to manfight, but in general having illusions that don't die instantly ends up doing a lot more because of Mana Break, even when you're ahead. Even though Heart provides no direct DPS stats, it adds a ton of damage in fights through illusion survivability, plus the mana denial.
You have to be against some goofy teamcomp that has like zero AoE skills for this not to be the case.
Generally, I try to stave off getting a heart unless I feel I have to, like vs a tinker or some really heavy lockdown comp. Basically I ask myself the question of, if I get a heart, can they ever actually kill me? If the answer is yes then I usually grab it if I want to fight. However if you want to split push harder, IE: you don't want to teamfight then I usually go butterfly. If I'm doing decently and I want to pick people off more efficiently, abyssal is the route I go. I tend to favor the abyssal because it lets you play significantly more aggressively and get much faster kills and forces the enemy to respond to you as 2+ or die, and even then depending on position you might still be able to kill them.
I feel heart is a safe choice that doesn't improve your pushing that much (particularly if you have vlads already) nor does it directly improve your mainfighting/pickoffs the way an abyssal does. But it does let you survive if they need to kill you during chain stuns/hexes/silences because that 1k hp goes a long way on antimage. But that's one of the fun things about AM, while your 6 slot is usually the same, the order in which you get your last 3 items can change quite a bit situatiionally depending. Same thing for your skill build, whether to get more stats, when to skill mana break, weather or not to get stats over max spell shield.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1196418082 Here is a game I recently played, I'm about 4k. If I got a heart in this game I would of been not killable, but I chose abyssal to allow me to constantly threaten kills before TP's could get in, and as a result I am able to kill the dusa, mag pretty consistently and accelerate my following items.
On January 31 2015 02:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I feel heart is a safe choice that doesn't improve your pushing that much (particularly if you have vlads already) nor does it directly improve your mainfighting/pickoffs the way an abyssal does.
This isn't really true for a couple reasons:
1) Sieging. Non-Heart Illusions are effectively useless for sieging because they blow up instantly to spells. Heart Illusions take considerable effort to kill, and can siege very effectively. Especially if the enemy team is unwilling to commit an important hero to kill them, they can do considerable tower damage even when you're not remotely nearby. The net result is more pushing pressure, because even if you push slower and do less damage, the enemy is forced to commit more meaningful heroes to kill illusions if they don't want to take constant tower damage (whereas against Basher or BFly illusions, a support's AoE skills are usually sufficient). 2) Heart Regen. Heart Regen is absolutely abusable for creating a ton of fighting/pickoff opportunities. The easiest use case is when the enemy team sends a core to stop you. Even if you can't necessarily win a manfight, you can go aggressive, attack them down to about 1/3 of your HP, then blink out and wait for Heart regen. Thanks to Mana Break, they'll have 0 mana, allowing your team a ton of potential advantageous engagements because Heart regen will have you at full HP even if you TP immediately to the fight, while the hero sent to stop you is forced to choose between entering the fight without mana, or TPing home and getting to the fight late/not at all.
Plus, as I mentioned before, having Illusions that don't instantly die is an enormous boon to your fighting ability, more so than a primary DPS item in most cases. You do have like 2 Diffusal Blades' worth of Feedback, after all.
Bulky illusions and Heart regen create a ton of opportunities for this hero to do things that are simply not possible with any other item. There's a reason why Heart is considered the "default" followup to BF Manta, and other choices are more situational adaptations.
On January 31 2015 02:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1196418082 Here is a game I recently played, I'm about 4k. If I got a heart in this game I would of been not killable, but I chose abyssal to allow me to constantly threaten kills before TP's could get in, and as a result I am able to kill the dusa, mag pretty consistently and accelerate my following items.
Medusa's a special case because Stone Gaze kills illusions regardless of how tanky they are. I wouldn't generalize from that at all because of Medusa's specific strength at fighting illusions.
I don't typically find myself pushing towers with a manta with heroes around. Generally if you are knocking on T3's its because you are forcing a reaction, by the time I have them bottled up in their base defending against manta illusions I think you should be past the point of whats your 3rd item. I see your point, but since illusions get spell shield, even illusions with 1800 vs 2800 can survive a 300 damage magic nuke that most support could dish out. I think the butterfly will push harder even when considering support nuking power for that reason. With spell shield a magic nuke with amp/reduction should do about 600 damage to the illusion.
As for your second point, I generally get a vlads pretty much 100% of the time so regen is never really a problem, but if you don't have the vlads then you make a pretty good point about hit and running enemy cores, however I generally prefer to kill them, which since you should be decently fair ahead on an antimage, it shouldn't be too tall an order to kill the opposing 1 position in a 1v1 scenario. As for teamfighting, that's also a good point. An extra 1k hp would make your illusions harder to deal with, but you can still get kited if your team isn't holding people in place, but furthermore I think taking 5on5 fights isn't AM's strength. You push so hard and fast that you force the enemy to rush their action IE: try to push highground before you can take theirs, meaning they can't wait for a perfect initiation, or they need to respond to you. If you force them to respond, then you have stopped their push and maybe get a pickoff, if you force them to go in prematurely then you have created a scenario where you can TP in after most major spells have gone off.
Are we talking about HoT? Heart is often the best 3rd item, particularly when you are ahead, because it makes you more or less unkillable, whereas basher will just improve your pickoff potential (not a problem when you're ahead) and won't help you tower push (which is what you should be doing if you're ahead). Heart will make you MUCH better in high ground pushes (you won't have to blink back as soon as some spells are cast on you). In even games where solo pickoffs are all you are getting, basher is usually better. Butterfly obviously works too if you're sufficiently ahead (so that they won't quickly get MKBs) and they have a lot of right click.
I recommend everybody buy treads before BF. The attack speed is really important when you move into the jungle, is helpful on lane and allows you to jungle with only RoH if you get shut down on lane. I really don't think going BF -> treads speeds up your farm in any significant way (because jungle farming is relatively slow with brown boots -> BF) and it weakens your lane/comeback potential a lot. When you have treads and BF, this is the time to blow up. It's almost always bad to fight at this point, because this is the stage of the game where you are going to farm 2x faster than any other hero, get a yasha in 2 minutes and be strong enough to solo towers (taking map control and eventually all their jungle camps/ancients). The only reason I like vlads before manta is if I'm planning to take the enemy ancients and solo roshan. You will have to judge how feasible this is based on their heroes and the way the game is going. You really shouldn't need the vlads sustain for split pushing or jungle farming, but if you're using it to full potential it can be a really good item.
But I agree about the treads. I generally go PMS (if required, skipped if not) treads/RoH so I can jungle and lane effectively. I sometimes also get the ring of regen if I'm sustaining a lot of harass because I can turn it into a vlads after my battlefury and it can keep your regen up so you don't get critically low from jungling some of the rougher camps earlier on. Generally I think its worth swapping it for the claymore to make jungling a bit faster, but against something like a bloodseeker the regen is probably more worthwhile.
On January 31 2015 09:44 bardtown wrote: Are we talking about HoT? Heart is often the best 3rd item, particularly when you are ahead, because it makes you more or less unkillable, whereas basher will just improve your pickoff potential (not a problem when you're ahead) and won't help you tower push (which is what you should be doing if you're ahead). Heart will make you MUCH better in high ground pushes (you won't have to blink back as soon as some spells are cast on you). In even games where solo pickoffs are all you are getting, basher is usually better. Butterfly obviously works too if you're sufficiently ahead (so that they won't quickly get MKBs) and they have a lot of right click.
I recommend everybody buy treads before BF. The attack speed is really important when you move into the jungle, is helpful on lane and allows you to jungle with only RoH if you get shut down on lane. I really don't think going BF -> treads speeds up your farm in any significant way (because jungle farming is relatively slow with brown boots -> BF) and it weakens your lane/comeback potential a lot. When you have treads and BF, this is the time to blow up. It's almost always bad to fight at this point, because this is the stage of the game where you are going to farm 2x faster than any other hero, get a yasha in 2 minutes and be strong enough to solo towers (taking map control and eventually all their jungle camps/ancients). The only reason I like vlads before manta is if I'm planning to take the enemy ancients and solo roshan. You will have to judge how feasible this is based on their heroes and the way the game is going. You really shouldn't need the vlads sustain for split pushing or jungle farming, but if you're using it to full potential it can be a really good item.
I had generally been feeling it out for whether to get treads or not. But if I'm picking antimage I would want a good trilane where I can get free farm. If I'm getting free farm I would not get treads until after BF, if I'm contested then I agree youre going to want those treads. But i find once i get the bf i can farm the treads in a heartbeat from jungle to lane farm. I really dont find that farming jungle with naked battlefury to be that slow. AM has great attack speed/ animation with nothing at all.
Well, the treads allow you to do a lot more. As mentioned, treads/RoH lets you effectively farm the jungle inbetween waves. Generally push the wave to the enemy tower, blink to medium (hard dire), back to lane, blink to easy. It increases your CS by quite a bit. About another 300+ gold a minute. Also, if you don't get that perfect lane or you end up against a really shitty duo like viper/windrunner or something equally dumb then you can fall back on effectively jungling. The game I linked earlier had quite the difficult lane because my supports were really dumb and they had a decent lane of WR/Weaver. I farmed the jungle a lot of the time while letting my support soak experience and I farmed the lane whenever I felt it was safe without taking too much damage. I ended up getting my battlefury right before 18 minutes, which is pretty late, This is my CS every 2 minutes. Generally in a good game I will hit like 80+ by 10 minutes. Treads are much more reliable, help you get kills and allow you to jungle pretty well.
Treads before BF has already been discussed by Beesa earlier in the thread and if you are getting BF before treads you are doing it wrong.
As for HOT I feel like it is less effective after manta than a lot of people think, basher gives you a lot more farm and makes your solo kill potential against enemy heroes skyrocket whereas heart AM is very easily kited. I feel the best time to get heart is against a lineup that you don't want to drag the game past 40 minutes with where you kill rosh after finishing heart and go for an aegis timing push to break high ground at 30 minutes. The other time to get it is the reverse situation where your opponents are desperately trying to end and you just need to survive their high ground push.
In a more passive game basher-bkb or even bfly-basher-bkb are a lot more effective I find if you want to take it a bit later. Assuming you get vlads you don't need heart regen and an extra dps item helps keep your farm at 10+ cs a minute, which is especially important as heart am usually sells off qb in favour of a tp scroll. Heart drops off pretty hard in lategame whereas bkb remains relevant even as it goes down to 5 seconds as it allows you to blink->abyssal->mana void people without interruption.
On January 31 2015 16:46 Clarty wrote: Treads before BF has already been discussed by Beesa earlier in the thread and if you are getting BF before treads you are doing it wrong.
As for HOT I feel like it is less effective after manta than a lot of people think, basher gives you a lot more farm and makes your solo kill potential against enemy heroes skyrocket whereas heart AM is very easily kited. I feel the best time to get heart is against a lineup that you don't want to drag the game past 40 minutes with where you kill rosh after finishing heart and go for an aegis timing push to break high ground at 30 minutes. The other time to get it is the reverse situation where your opponents are desperately trying to end and you just need to survive their high ground push.
In a more passive game basher-bkb or even bfly-basher-bkb are a lot more effective I find if you want to take it a bit later. Assuming you get vlads you don't need heart regen and an extra dps item helps keep your farm at 10+ cs a minute, which is especially important as heart am usually sells off qb in favour of a tp scroll. Heart drops off pretty hard in lategame whereas bkb remains relevant even as it goes down to 5 seconds as it allows you to blink->abyssal->mana void people without interruption.
I looked back a number of pages and saw his comment that treads first is better but I didnt see anything as strong as "youre doing it wrong if you get BF first". Is there a point where he describes why it isnt worth rushing if youre getting complete free farm? I cant find it
He basically says you're doing it wrong if you go bfury first. If you go treads bfury you'll have bfury at close to the same time as some guy who naked bfury rushes in the same situation because treads lets you farm jungle and lane during laning phase. Once you get treads/qb/shield you shove wave -> blink to jungle camp -> kill that and then go to lane, shove wave -> blink to next camp. repeat and don't push tower too early. If your supports are really coordinated and their offlaner is useless you can get obscene cs levels by pulling both waves into the dire hard camp in the first few mins (before AM has treads) and let him kill everything. We're talking 110/10 mins here if you're close to flawless, and an easy 90-100 without super supporting if offlaner is neutralized.
If their offlaner is getting too comfy creeping under their tower and you have 2 supports you can have them loop around behind the tower and kill the offlaner when u push wave onto their tower. Having tested it, a midas rush works out better than bfury rush even, unless you really need a vlads.
On February 01 2015 13:12 Ver wrote: He basically says you're doing it wrong if you go bfury first. If you go treads bfury you'll have bfury at close to the same time as some guy who naked bfury rushes in the same situation because treads lets you farm jungle and lane during laning phase. Once you get treads/qb/shield you shove wave -> blink to jungle camp -> kill that and then go to lane, shove wave -> blink to next camp. repeat and don't push tower too early. If your supports are really coordinated and their offlaner is useless you can get obscene cs levels by pulling both waves into the dire hard camp in the first few mins (before AM has treads) and let him kill everything. We're talking 110/10 mins here if you're close to flawless, and an easy 90-100 without super supporting if offlaner is neutralized.
If their offlaner is getting too comfy creeping under their tower and you have 2 supports you can have them loop around behind the tower and kill the offlaner when u push wave onto their tower. Having tested it, a midas rush works out better than bfury rush even, unless you really need a vlads.
Thanks for explaining that Ver. Makes more sense now. I will definitely have to try that
In 1vx or 2vx lanes, is it ok to delay boots for a while to get a QB, PMS, and a stick so that I can cs under tower, take less damage from harassment, and gain a bit of burst regen for emergencies? Is it a good idea to delay boots even longer sometimes for a fast ring of health?
Everything depends on the opposition you're facing, how they harass you and how hard it is to last hit. All those items helps AM getting last hit, but you have to chose which one is needed faster than the other. Against a weaver or a QOP offlane, getting boots would be far less useful than a straight RoH
The way most of my anti-mage games play out is that my team is behind by the time I complete my Manta (Even if you finish it pretty quickly, just by you being a greedy farm-whore). In general the way I play it is to follow up with the heart because I feel it gives you a nice combination of fight+push which lets you swing the momentum of the game. But let's say it's not an ideal draft for the Anti-mage and the enemy team's Lycan/DP/Pugna are already pushing on your T3s.
Would it be stronger to go for the basher/Abyssal due to the necessity to fight immediately? Or does the heart still offer more in this scenario?
Does anyone have any good in-game examples of when to get Abyssal vs heart?
In a similar vein, what is the general approach to playing against Phantom Assassin? Do people usually just take an MKB after manta if they need to man-fight him?
BF+Manta+Heart is outright stronger in a straight-up 5v5. BF+Manta+AB is potentially stronger in a 1v1 or small skirmish where you're manfighting a small number of heroes, but having Illusions that don't die to incidental AoE drastically increases your overall teamfight effectiveness except against super-lopsided teamcomps with no AoE, or teams with spells that kill illusions instantly.
On February 01 2015 13:12 Ver wrote: He basically says you're doing it wrong if you go bfury first. If you go treads bfury you'll have bfury at close to the same time as some guy who naked bfury rushes in the same situation because treads lets you farm jungle and lane during laning phase. Once you get treads/qb/shield you shove wave -> blink to jungle camp -> kill that and then go to lane, shove wave -> blink to next camp. repeat and don't push tower too early. If your supports are really coordinated and their offlaner is useless you can get obscene cs levels by pulling both waves into the dire hard camp in the first few mins (before AM has treads) and let him kill everything. We're talking 110/10 mins here if you're close to flawless, and an easy 90-100 without super supporting if offlaner is neutralized.
If their offlaner is getting too comfy creeping under their tower and you have 2 supports you can have them loop around behind the tower and kill the offlaner when u push wave onto their tower. Having tested it, a midas rush works out better than bfury rush even, unless you really need a vlads.
Could you show me a video of someone doing it? 3.1k AM player, never got above 70 cs in 10 minutes.
heart vs abyssal vs bkb depends a lot on their lineup most of the time hearts better but thats not necessarily always true versus teams that kite you quite easily abyssal is sometimes better and versus teams with a lot disables bkb is sometimes better if you want to watch am farm just watch pretty much any comp game with am, theyre all pretty good at it black is known for picking am a lot but most pros seem to be pretty comfortable on am
abyssal is a must have against a lot of popular meta heroes like lina, storm, jug, troll, etc. Unless u have a reliable teammate to initiate and pierce bkb stun, you are going to be chasing as AM, and thats never what you want to be doing. You should probably get abyssal as fast as you can every game
You want the dream blink->abyssal->manta->2seconds of autos->explode mana and win to instagib their big problem hero. And you want to be able to do that as fast as possible. Any items that get in the way of that need to have strong justification (bkb or heart or whatever) or you need to have a strong team comp that does that for you.
the dream: treads/quelling/pms/bfury->vlads/manta->abyssal
the reality: treads/quelling/pms/bfury->vlads/manta->bkb/heart/butterfly->abyssal
the nightmare: treads/quelling/pms->vlads->bfury... etc
im no pro but thats my take. abyssal is the best item in the game
On March 16 2015 03:32 TheYango wrote: BF+Manta+Heart is outright stronger in a straight-up 5v5. BF+Manta+AB is potentially stronger in a 1v1 or small skirmish where you're manfighting a small number of heroes, but having Illusions that don't die to incidental AoE drastically increases your overall teamfight effectiveness except against super-lopsided teamcomps with no AoE, or teams with spells that kill illusions instantly.
But then again, is not the only reason why illusions die instantly is because everyone and their mother ignores the fact that AM has ability that gives you +100% magical EHP (and same to illusions). I mean, if we take a random ~1.3k HP AM with 4 points in spell shield, his manta illusions have almost 800 magical EHP, no? Last time i checked that's enough to eat 2 nukes. Obviously, magical damage ones, pure damage makes this rather sad.
On March 16 2015 07:53 ahw wrote: abyssal is a must have against a lot of popular meta heroes like lina, storm, jug, troll, etc. Unless u have a reliable teammate to initiate and pierce bkb stun, you are going to be chasing as AM, and thats never what you want to be doing. You should probably get abyssal as fast as you can every game
You want the dream blink->abyssal->manta->2seconds of autos->explode mana and win to instagib their big problem hero. And you want to be able to do that as fast as possible. Any items that get in the way of that need to have strong justification (bkb or heart or whatever) or you need to have a strong team comp that does that for you.
the dream: treads/quelling/pms/bfury->vlads/manta->abyssal
the reality: treads/quelling/pms/bfury->vlads/manta->bkb/heart/butterfly->abyssal
the nightmare: treads/quelling/pms->vlads->bfury... etc
im no pro but thats my take. abyssal is the best item in the game
abyssal is one of the best items in the game, but you cant just tunnel vision it.
On March 16 2015 11:07 GtC wrote: AM rarely has max spell shield by his 3rd big item. AM's almost always prefer stats after getting a value point in it.
Value!? I mean, if a magical EHP of AM without spell shield is X, then lvl1 spell shield results in 1.35X magical EHP, lvl2 in 1.51X, lvl3 in 1.72X and lvl4 in 2X. Does not sound like lvl1 is value point at all, even though it gives 1/3rd of the benefit . I mean, i skip it for stats just like next guy, but lvl1 spell shield barely sounds like a "value" point.
By value I mean that improving your strength gain from 1 to 3 per level is usually more useful than additional magic resistance.
Also, just because a skill scales really well doesn't mean the first point is bad for value. Rubick's null field, albeit an aura, offers less magic resist when maxed than AM's level 1 spell shield.
I don't know why AM's rush heart after manta every game, assuming you have treads+bf+vlads+manta+qb+tp getting your next item means you drop your quelling. This means getting heart after manta actually slows down your farm so unless you are trying to go high ground with an aegis in hand vs a spec or some other harder carry you should try to skip it. If you are behind and need a defensive item bkb is better 95% of the time anyway.
I usually go butter or abyssal after manta, sometimes even casual basher -> heart is better than going straight heart. By doing this you get a lot more farm and you have disgusting solo kill potential which you won't have with a heart build, especially against cancerous meta picks like storm, jugg, troll and sniper you need the abyssal to hold them in place while you one shot them with mana void at the start of fights. All heart will do in that situation is allow you to blink out which is pointless as you will just be useless in the fight anyway.
On March 16 2015 11:17 GtC wrote: By value I mean that improving your strength gain from 1 to 3 per level is usually more useful than additional magic resistance.
I mean, let's be honest, the actual trade-off tank-wise here is between 114 HP and increasing your magical EHP in 1.5 times in part of the game where nukes are still notable, especially on illusions. Stats kind of ease up farming due to bonus agility and mana/mana regen though. I mean, at times i regularly catch myself seeing how AM's get bursted down by magical nukes and find it sort of ironic.
Also, just because a skill scales really well doesn't mean the first point is bad for value. Rubick's null field, albeit an aura, offers less magic resist when maxed than AM's level 1 spell shield.
Well, true, the lvl1 point of spell shield is not bad at all, but the value it adds is worthy of a single "standard" nuke in midgame.
On March 16 2015 11:17 GtC wrote: By value I mean that improving your strength gain from 1 to 3 per level is usually more useful than additional magic resistance.
I mean, let's be honest, the actual trade-off tank-wise here is between 114 HP and increasing your magical EHP in 1.5 times in part of the game where nukes are still notable, especially on illusions. Stats kind of ease up farming due to bonus agility and mana/mana regen though.
In the current meta I would argue that your primary concern is having the hp to survive a stun or two while being whipped by jugg or troll though. Also, you usually get to the stats versus spell shield part at around bf/vlads/manta-ish, where you have maybe 1k hp.
On March 16 2015 11:17 GtC wrote: By value I mean that improving your strength gain from 1 to 3 per level is usually more useful than additional magic resistance.
I mean, let's be honest, the actual trade-off tank-wise here is between 114 HP and increasing your magical EHP in 1.5 times in part of the game where nukes are still notable, especially on illusions. Stats kind of ease up farming due to bonus agility and mana/mana regen though.
In the current meta I would argue that your primary concern is having the hp to survive a stun or two while being whipped by jugg or troll though. Also, you usually get to the stats versus spell shield part at around bf/vlads/manta-ish, where you have maybe 1k hp.
In which case 114 HP ends up being deciding factor REALLY rarely and you could have skipped spell shield altogether (and think again about reasons for picking AM other than "we need hard carry oneoneone"). As for 1k HP, this just works as an argument for my side, because 114 HP is still a ~10% magical EHP improvement (and ~13% physical EHP one due to 6 agility). Let's be honest, the trispinity is pretty darn good against AM by-design.
When you have 1k hp I would say 114 hp ends up being the deciding factor an awful lot more than on most other heroes. Considering that the first point gives far more benefits than the other points I don't see much of a case for skipping spell shield altogether. You also pick an AM for his farm, split-push, and eventual ability, not because he has more magic resist than normal. As you point out 114 hp is still a significant improvement on his ability to survive magic damage and also gives additional physical resistance (I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make with that...). Yes the spinlords are good against AM, but really only in manfights before AM picks up a few items and in winning enough fights to beat the AM before he comes online. If AM's team does a good job stalling, the only who can still really be a problem lategame is troll or a really fat jugg.
On March 16 2015 12:15 GtC wrote: When you have 1k hp I would say 114 hp ends up being the deciding factor an awful lot more than on most other heroes. Considering that the first point gives far more benefits than the other points I don't see much of a case for skipping spell shield altogether. You also pick an AM for his farm, split-push, and eventual ability, not because he has more magic resist than normal. As you point out 114 hp is still a significant improvement on his ability to survive magic damage and also gives additional physical resistance (I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make with that...). Yes the spinlords are good against AM, but really only in manfights before AM picks up a few items and in winning enough fights to beat the AM before he comes online. If AM's team does a good job stalling, the only who can still really be a problem lategame is troll or a really fat jugg.
1. While 114 HP matters more when you have 1k HP, the primary point being here is that it really depends on line-up of enemy, because if it can burst you down with magical combo, you will totally miss out on spell shield points.
2. Eh, picking AM just so he can get farmed sounds like a waste, there are like 4+ heroes not that far behind than AM farming wise (or even comparable to it) but that provide much more in other areas, unless you well, need to counter magical-damage heavy line-up without much control.
3. I didn't point out it is significant improvement on his ability to survive magical damage. If anything, i pointed out that spell shield at level1 is giving you an ability to freely soak up default magical damage nuke, but guess what that would rely you only getting hit by magical damage nukes, in which case not getting spell shield sounds like a waste.
4. As for trispinity relation, i would argue that Axe is decent against AM even in lategame, just on the back of ability to drag him into his team/help with focusing him with call + couple of force staves on main Axe/AM.
Am is the same as always - weak at team fights, split push and trade until you are 30 mins 5-6 slotted, then force fights and end before their cores catch up.
You don't pick him to get farm, you pick him to split push like an animal and hit 6 slot faster than anyone else in the game. He needs to be actively threatening the map.
That's pretty much how he's always been played and still is
IDK where the idea that you need to be 6-slotted to hit your peak teamfight strength came from.
Mana Break makes BF+Manta+Heart a strong point for your teamfighting strength, because there are a shitton of heroes that basically become glorified creeps when you hit them a few times and they go to zero mana. You actually expect to start fighting then, take map control, and go high with +1 item and Aegis a lot of the time.
AM's arguably a lot more dangerous when he has BF+Manta+Heart/BKB than when he's 6 slotted a few minutes later, because a ton of mana-dependent heroes have had a chance to get BKBs or mana items, and supports that get blown up by Manta illusions have a chance to get Ghost Scepters.
AM's never had the tools to fight pure man-fighting carries. His strength is his ability to blank heroes with Mana Break and having the mobility to threaten backline heroes so that you can instantly make like 2 enemy heroes useless and then clean up what's effectively a 5v3 against stronger manfight heroes that have a harder time threatening key heroes on your team.
On March 17 2015 00:03 TheYango wrote: IDK where the idea that you need to be 6-slotted to hit your peak teamfight strength came from.
Mana Break makes BF+Manta+Heart a strong point for your teamfighting strength, because there are a shitton of heroes that basically become glorified creeps when you hit them a few times and they go to zero mana. You actually expect to start fighting then, take map control, and go high with +1 item and Aegis a lot of the time.
AM's arguably a lot more dangerous when he has BF+Manta+Heart/BKB than when he's 6 slotted a few minutes later, because a ton of mana-dependent heroes have had a chance to get BKBs or mana items, and supports that get blown up by Manta illusions have a chance to get Ghost Scepters.
AM's never had the tools to fight pure man-fighting carries. His strength is his ability to blank heroes with Mana Break and having the mobility to threaten backline heroes so that you can instantly make like 2 enemy heroes useless and then clean up what's effectively a 5v3 against stronger manfight heroes that have a harder time threatening key heroes on your team.
Yup. And generally be ahead in farm due to BF + blink.
On March 17 2015 11:52 LA_Morello wrote: Meh, playing AM against a PA who goes Treads/Phase --> Dominator --> BKB is an instant loss.
She becomes relevant way too early for you to consider existing at all.
if she doesn't go battlefury and keep up with you, you can split and solo roshans and get like 1.5 items ahead while she's killing team and taking towers at moderate pace; i dont think she's as scary as like troll as an am counter... both of them do pretty well against am though, cuz he can't really manfight at any point.
On March 17 2015 11:52 LA_Morello wrote: Meh, playing AM against a PA who goes Treads/Phase --> Dominator --> BKB is an instant loss.
She becomes relevant way too early for you to consider existing at all.
if she doesn't go battlefury and keep up with you, you can split and solo roshans and get like 1.5 items ahead while she's killing team and taking towers at moderate pace; i dont think she's as scary as like troll as an am counter... both of them do pretty well against am though, cuz he can't really manfight at any point.
I honestly find it much easier to play against a PA who goes Battlefury because most of the games you're basically trading farm against her. And, as an AM, you can outfarm her (or at least have BF-Manta-Heart at 26 minutes, or even go MKB first or maybe BF-Vlads-Manta at 23, idk).
But if she goes helm-bkb, she is basically killing your team at 17~18 minutes while you, at best, have BF+Yasha or BF+Vlads and isn't ready to fight at all.
I understood your post, maybe due to the lack of skill I'm not able to do it but most of the games where a PA go directly to BKB they are killing my barracks before or soon after I finish my Manta Style. And I can't manfight PA as I could if we were both, like, 4 slotted, which I feel much more comfortable to play against.
Coming from a 4500 70% win rate AM player, here's no way she's getting helm bkb treads by 18minutes unless she was fed a kill or 2 + fantastic farming. That being said, AM completely hinges upon the player being very very good at last hitting until BF, because if you have a late BF timing it's much harder to take control of the game. Every minute earlier you get that BF enables you to get insane farm that much faster, BF timing is pretty much the most important thing for AM players.
When you play against PA you should be hitting BF + yasha + vlads around 22minutes or so, which is about when the PA should be coming online. Just push like a madman and as long as they don't have a blink stun you are unkillable, they are forced to back a hero or 2, then continue farming or tp to where they just left and force a 5v4 or whatever. Get an mkb after your manta is done and then you can just manfight the PA and win unless she wins the RNG lottery with 3 crits in 6 attacks.
On March 18 2015 03:27 Varth wrote: Coming from a 4500 70% win rate AM player, here's no way she's getting helm bkb treads by 18minutes unless she was fed a kill or 2 + fantastic farming. That being said, AM completely hinges upon the player being very very good at last hitting until BF, because if you have a late BF timing it's much harder to take control of the game. Every minute earlier you get that BF enables you to get insane farm that much faster, BF timing is pretty much the most important thing for AM players.
When you play against PA you should be hitting BF + yasha + vlads around 22minutes or so, which is about when the PA should be coming online. Just push like a madman and as long as they don't have a blink stun you are unkillable, they are forced to back a hero or 2, then continue farming or tp to where they just left and force a 5v4 or whatever. Get an mkb after your manta is done and then you can just manfight the PA and win unless she wins the RNG lottery with 3 crits in 6 attacks.
Helm Bkb Treads 18 minutes in? That's around 500 GPM with aquilla/pms and hatchet. That's anything but fantastic farming, especially considering possbilities helm gives.
500gpm first 20 minutes is actually really high. the bulk of ur gpm is weighted towards the later ends of the game. perfect early game farming with no kills barely beats that.
yeah i agree; HoD ancient stacking isn't as effective on non-BF PA either, clearing the stack takes quite awhile. 500 GPM at minute 18 isn't super easy.
On March 18 2015 05:29 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: yeah i agree; HoD ancient stacking isn't as effective on non-BF PA either, clearing the stack takes quite awhile. 500 GPM at minute 18 isn't super easy.
its achievable with just free farm tho and id rather stack a large camp with a dominated wildkin
On March 18 2015 05:54 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: not the right thread, but out of curiosity, how often do you go BF on PA, and how often do go you go HoD? how do you make that decision?
i feel like if i expect to be pressed into fights i would rather rush a manta. vlads lets you take more adventurous farming routes, including enemy ancients and cutting enemy creeps, because you will always be at full hp
Yeah Vlad's is primarily for improving your efficiency of farming patterns by giving you somewhat better HP/mana management and faster pushing (the better HP management mostly lets you take Ancients more smoothly but helps everywhere). It also allows you to Rosh solo. It's not a fighting item.
I've been experimenting by starting with the full Poor Man Shield + Tango if I think I'll be in a lane where I can get away with it; otherwise opting for the standard Salve+Tango+Stout+x2 Branches.
You can keep PMS for a really long time though with the change to battlefury right? The damage block amount is an upgrade from regular stout vs both creeps and heroes, so you'll have a bit more HP at all times if you're farming the jungle or tanking any hits from really anything, so I think it could be a more worthwhile pickup than in previous patches. (especially in pubs where the safelane is almost always contested)
sn0_Man, actually you are wrong. You need the PMS to jungle effectively before battlefury now. It's not just 6 agi anymore. The stout got nerfed to 15 damage block while the PMS remained at 20. The PMS open seems alright imo. I usually get greedy as fuck and open stout/quelling/tango or stout/RoP tango. The armor really helps to clear the bigger more evil camps like the stupid hellbears and I pretty much build into vlads every single game since soloing rosh is a huge threat to have.
Sorry didn't see edit, was on the phone in the middle of typing this.
yes yes dont apologize i'm the retard here if ur going vlads though I'd assert that pms is extraneous at that point. if ur not going vlads tehn ur definitely right pms is a big upgrade and i was dumb. I read the stout nerf and just assumed it applied to PMS.
I think it might just depend on your vlads timing. If you're not being contested very much and get a fast bfury followed by a fast vlads, you could probably stay on stout, but in the pubs I've played, I've hardly ever had a game where that's the case. It's (almost) always a contested 2v2 or 3v2, worst case 1v2 as the AM, and in such cases I'd always rather have a PMS, although I don't know about buying it first as opposed to having more regen and picking it up from either the sideshop or ferrying it from base.
Edit: Granted I'm a really bad antimage, so there's that.
Since you get vlads after battlefury (ideally) the PMS helps with your jungling quite a bit. The damage has always been nice, but now the damageblock makes it borderline required. Plus you aren't slot constricted with the new battlefury and you get the 60% bonus from the 6 agi which is another 4 damage which is nice.
I get the PMS almost every game anyways. I haven't done the math (and would love to see it if someone has) but I'm sure that extra +6 Agility (which is +6 damage AND + 0.84 armor) ends up giving you some extra jungle efficiency.
The trade off in my mind is not having the extra Salve and the 38 hitpoints you lose from not having the branches. But, you do 57 damage instead of 53 (oftentimes a larger difference than it appears) and you can still feel comfortable taking some harassment.
Right now I'm thinking about the decision tree like this; will I need a ton of Regen/will it be a hard lane? If so then play it standard and get Tango/Salve/Stout/Branches. If I think I can get away with being a bit more greedy in the lane, I think the next decision is whether you should get PMS+Tango or Quelling Blade + Stout + Tango.
With QB and no other items you do 62 damage to creeps at the start of the game, which sounds like it would better most of the time if you are trying to gear yourself towards maximizing early last hits and you don't need the Regen.
However, Anti-Mage is a surprisingly good early fighter. If you are in a situation where you can trade hits with Mana Break you can very easily take control of the lane. If you are going to be trading hits it would seem to me that the PMS is a superior. For example, lets say you are having the worst day ever and you have to lane against a Phantom Assassin. This is never a fun matchup, but as the antimage your best bet is to try and kill him early when you can abuse Mana Break and he does not have many points in Evasion. Getting a PMS here would give you a leg up on him right from the get go. This sounds a lot better after the nerf to Stout shield, since you will be blocking more damage than the PA.
After the gold changes in 6.84, it feels like Anti-Mage wants to fight more in the early game if he truly wants to hit a killer Battlefury timing. Early fights seem so important right now that I'm considering moving away from the regular 1-1-1 + stats skill build in favor of getting more early points in mana break. This is mostly a bunch of theory craft, but I'm curious to know what you guys think.
On May 07 2015 00:13 Sn0_Man wrote: I guess I just hate new vlads being 300 more gold for essentially a worse effect so I keep trying to figure out ways to mitigate that
How is the effect worse? that 300 gold also gives you 2 stat points you didn't get previously.
On May 07 2015 00:23 Sceptre wrote: I get the PMS almost every game anyways. I haven't done the math (and would love to see it if someone has) but I'm sure that extra +6 Agility (which is +6 damage AND + 0.84 armor) ends up giving you some extra jungle efficiency.
The trade off in my mind is not having the extra Salve and the 38 hitpoints you lose from not having the branches. But, you do 57 damage instead of 53 (oftentimes a larger difference than it appears) and you can still feel comfortable taking some harassment.
Right now I'm thinking about the decision tree like this; will I need a ton of Regen/will it be a hard lane? If so then play it standard and get Tango/Salve/Stout/Branches. If I think I can get away with being a bit more greedy in the lane, I think the next decision is whether you should get PMS+Tango or Quelling Blade + Stout + Tango.
With QB and no other items you do 62 damage to creeps at the start of the game, which sounds like it would better most of the time if you are trying to gear yourself towards maximizing early last hits and you don't need the Regen.
However, Anti-Mage is a surprisingly good early fighter. If you are in a situation where you can trade hits with Mana Break you can very easily take control of the lane. If you are going to be trading hits it would seem to me that the PMS is a superior. For example, lets say you are having the worst day ever and you have to lane against a Phantom Assassin. This is never a fun matchup, but as the antimage your best bet is to try and kill him early when you can abuse Mana Break and he does not have many points in Evasion. Getting a PMS here would give you a leg up on him right from the get go. This sounds a lot better after the nerf to Stout shield, since you will be blocking more damage than the PA.
After the gold changes in 6.84, it feels like Anti-Mage wants to fight more in the early game if he truly wants to hit a killer Battlefury timing. Early fights seem so important right now that I'm considering moving away from the regular 1-1-1 + stats skill build in favor of getting more early points in mana break. This is mostly a bunch of theory craft, but I'm curious to know what you guys think.
If I think I'm having a free lane I probably wouldn't bother rushing the PMS, faster treads/RoH is probably better, but since the change I think the difference is a bit negligible since I think you want the PMS anyway. It's basically PMS or quelling, and if you think you might be under any amount of pressure the PMS is probably better. It's probably even better if your supports are pulling and you are CSing under tower since the damage is still lowered by 33% more.
On May 07 2015 00:13 Sn0_Man wrote: I guess I just hate new vlads being 300 more gold for essentially a worse effect so I keep trying to figure out ways to mitigate that
How is the effect worse? that 300 gold also gives you 2 stat points you didn't get previously.
okay, 300 gold is not a bargain for 2 stats, its less leech and the aoe regen aura is so beyond useless on an AM lol
The regen aura has relatively little impact on the strength of a creep push. In order to meaningfully affect the strength of the push, the regen has to heal creeps for enough that they take more tower hits to kill. Uninjured creeps don't regen for long enough while a tower is hitting them for this to happen, and creeps that are damaged had to have been damaged enough that it would make them die in 1 less tower hit AND the regen has to bring them out of that range.
The armor and damage components always had more impact in this regard, the regen does very little to augment a push like that.
On May 06 2015 23:34 Sceptre wrote: Have people altered their starting builds on AM?
I've been experimenting by starting with the full Poor Man Shield + Tango if I think I'll be in a lane where I can get away with it; otherwise opting for the standard Salve+Tango+Stout+x2 Branches.
getting 2 tangos is better in a lot of cases now since you shouldn't ever eat a huge burst on AM in a bad trade thanks to blink, and 2 tangos provides more regen for 10 more gold. That and you get an itemslot for magic stick if it's something like a bat. PMS start has always been viable against enemy ranged heroes. trading your stout for a quelling blade is more viable than ever now in an absolutely free lane. antimage is probably one of the more boring heroes in terms of item choices, but the timing requirement on his items is very strict, so having the right start really helps. If you're trying to get better at antimage, remember that there's also other options in heroes with similar styles - morphling, spectre and ember are all tp-centric mobility based heroes (yet their kit can be so much more creative than antimage's simple blink), and even naga shares some aspects with all these heroes.
Stout's still vastly better against creep damage (which is always what justified it in the first place). Against hero damage it's a lot closer and depends on the heroes involved and their respective damage/armor values.On a 0 base armor hero, RoP and Stout prevent the same average amount of damage against a 50 damage autoattack--relative to this, Stout is better at higher base armor and against lower damage values while the RoP is better at lower base armor and against higher damage values.
Was AM buffed by this meta? I don't play him much. As I am a support player, I lane with an AM quite a bit. Who is the ideal lane partner? I have found success with Dazzle and WD, and limited success with Ogre.
On May 07 2015 14:36 Saki [NETOGE] wrote: Was AM buffed by this meta? I don't play him much. As I am a support player, I lane with an AM quite a bit. Who is the ideal lane partner? I have found success with Dazzle and WD, and limited success with Ogre.
On May 07 2015 14:36 Saki [NETOGE] wrote: Was AM buffed by this meta? I don't play him much. As I am a support player, I lane with an AM quite a bit. Who is the ideal lane partner? I have found success with Dazzle and WD, and limited success with Ogre.
Bane, Skywrath and Rubick are good defensive supports for AM.
I don't see a way for Rubick to become a good defensive support in any case. He can do something in early game with heroes like Lina but otherwise he offers less than more support in lane.
On May 08 2015 00:01 Laserist wrote: I don't see a way for Rubick to become a good defensive support in any case. He can do something in early game with heroes like Lina but otherwise he offers less than more support in lane.
He works wonders in a trilane. If you're dual laning however I'd prefer Sky/Bane ofc.
No mention of Lion with Mana Drain into ez Mana Void? Spell is kinda shit btw with the cast animation which is the problem that only people who play AM will understand. It should get some cast point buff or damage buff.
On May 08 2015 00:01 Laserist wrote: I don't see a way for Rubick to become a good defensive support in any case. He can do something in early game with heroes like Lina but otherwise he offers less than more support in lane.
Stunning multiple heroes is good and instant spells are good. The damage reduction is very good too if they want to commit to the kill anyway.
On May 08 2015 05:57 Terrorbladder wrote: No mention of Lion with Mana Drain into ez Mana Void? Spell is kinda shit btw with the cast animation which is the problem that only people who play AM will understand. It should get some cast point buff or damage buff.
I'm always for AM buffs It's not that bad of a cast point, I honestly can't recall many games where someone goes out of range or dodges me in the fog when I'm about to ult them.
Rubick+AM gets wrecked by almost any halfway decent dual.
Rubick can maybe disrupt a kill attempt (maybe...), but then his mana's gone and you're stuck with a support that loses harass trades against like 90% of the pool. The hero's just not very strong unless his lane partner brings a lot of damage to capitalise on his 0-castpoint initiation.
AM doesn't really want a super defensive support anyway. He going to want something that can exert pressure over the lane early and maybe create kill attempts with blink->manabreak support.
For those interested, a recent replay of Black playing Anti Mage.
It's worth a watch, if only because it's a great example of Black persevering when a game is NOT going well. The laning phase is a total mess, even his last hitting was notably sloppy, but Black turns it all around by choosing smart fights.
any advice on how to deal with meepo as antimage? from my knowledge only diffusal and bkb helps to deal with his net which both feel like suboptimal early pickups after fury; and you still have to face the threat of his blink hex poof later on
You might need to adjust your build so that you can fight before the Meepo can. Skip battlefury, grab a vlads, casual bracer or vitality booster, and go straight manta from there. You have moderate damage in the midgame, and your team should be able to win the 5v4s. Dodge their main disables and go after their backline heroes. If you can get a mana void off on a high mana pool support who's out of mana in range of someone else you can do a lot of damage safely before you're able to otherwise man-up.
If that's not an option, try to just out-maneuver him with your ratting. Split-push around him as is possible. If you're forced to take a fight he's present in, don't try and 1v1 him, just blink around him in fights to avoid getting netted. Your team can handle the Meepos if you clear the rest first. Even with his high magic resistance if you can land a mana void next to Meepo on a high mana pool low mana hero you can knock out a clone's hp pretty easily.
The other solution is to have other heroes on your team that can deal with him. Aoe silences are strong, silencer's global lets you easily pick off Meepo with manta, dp's silence is good, and her ult being physical is going to bypass his magic resistance. Or make his life miserable before he gets off the ground, and just hunt him with easy gankers like Riki or Bounty Hunter. Wyvern's ult and other big aoe disables, especially cast right after he does a blink poof combo can hold him long enough for you and your team to burst him down before he can endless-net you.
Lastly, even if it's a surprise last pick Meepo and your team doesn't have heroes especially strong vs him, just have your team focus on the whole making his life miserable thing anyway. Smoke gank him in the jungle or in whatever lane he's trying to split his Meepos for xp in. Hamstring him before he gets many Meepos and useful items.
Remember dota is a team game. There isn't a way to make an Antimage win a 1v1 vs Meepo (with his clones) once he has his levels and farm, but unless you're playing no rush 20 min mid-only that isn't an issue.
Stacking butters can be good vs meepo, especially now that hex doesn't disable evasion. Another trick is to tp when netted, if net is chained it won't actually cancel tps, meepo needs to wait until net expires then net you again to cancel, and if he does that you can blink to safety.
On May 23 2015 18:11 Nightmarjoo wrote: You might need to adjust your build so that you can fight before the Meepo can. Skip battlefury, grab a vlads, casual bracer or vitality booster, and go straight manta from there. You have moderate damage in the midgame, and your team should be able to win the 5v4s. Dodge their main disables and go after their backline heroes. If you can get a mana void off on a high mana pool support who's out of mana in range of someone else you can do a lot of damage safely before you're able to otherwise man-up.
BF is fine, it really depends on the other heroes in the game. If you aren't staying competitive with him in farming speed, it becomes a lot harder to fight him if he gets an item advantage, which he can do if you don't go BF because Meepo's natural farming speed is so much higher. If he sees you skip BF, he's not going to fight headlong into midgame fighting items--the Meepo player should recognize that without BF, AM's farming speed isn't competitive with Meepo's at all and will farm an item advantage. It's the farming speed of BF that pressures him into trying to fight you earlier in the first place.
On May 24 2015 10:05 Clarty wrote: Stacking butters can be good vs meepo, especially now that hex doesn't disable evasion. Another trick is to tp when netted, if net is chained it won't actually cancel tps, meepo needs to wait until net expires then net you again to cancel, and if he does that you can blink to safety.
You don't really have the slots to afford getting more than 1 Butterfly vs. Meepo, the things other items do are equally important.
Yeah I struggled with the AM vs meepo thing a bit. You need to itemize to murder him. Even with a well timed heart, he will still kill you a bfly/bkb should rape him pretty hard. Generally do the normal, treads/bfury/vlads then butterfly/bkb in either order. Bkb lets you survive, butterfly lets you kill. Change the order depending on if you are far enough a head. I think you need stats over mana break against the meepo until you have both items. But I always found it awkward and haven't played it enough to really be confident, but in the few games I found building to murder him is the best way to survive, don't waste your time with a heart.
That TP out thing is really interesting, but I think he should have a .5 second window where you can get netted still.
On May 24 2015 14:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think you need stats over mana break against the meepo until you have both items.
For skill order adaptations, I'd argue potentially leveling Spell Shield early over Stats is the more important one to take note of. It's unnecessary if Meepo goes Agh before Blink but if he goes Blink first, it makes his solo-kills significantly harder, because a Blink-first Meepo relies heavily on Poof burst damage when the other Meepos don't have Agh's stats yet.
I don't play meepo but I thought the build on him was always aghs > blink or his farming gets hit too hard. I think the 1 spell shield point is probably fine but leveling it shouldn't hurt. Without aghs stats and an additional meepo the vlads/bf is probably enough because the poof damage is already reduced by 1 meepo which is like 25%.
But as I said. A lot of this is speculation because I haven't played the matchup as much as I'd like.
On May 24 2015 14:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Yeah I struggled with the AM vs meepo thing a bit. You need to itemize to murder him. Even with a well timed heart, he will still kill you a bfly/bkb should rape him pretty hard. Generally do the normal, treads/bfury/vlads then butterfly/bkb in either order. Bkb lets you survive, butterfly lets you kill. Change the order depending on if you are far enough a head. I think you need stats over mana break against the meepo until you have both items. But I always found it awkward and haven't played it enough to really be confident, but in the few games I found building to murder him is the best way to survive, don't waste your time with a heart.
That TP out thing is really interesting, but I think he should have a .5 second window where you can get netted still.
I think you can usually cancel the tp and blink out in that 0.5 second window though.
On June 30 2015 16:59 soilcow wrote: when should i buid vlad on am
after battlefury, it ensures you are always at full health, especially when farming ancients and stacks. this means you are always ready to tp and help your team, and it also opens up more "riskier" farm routes as you have full health.
as beesa said earlier, if you farm well, getting vlads only delays your manta by about 2 minutes because of the extra opportunities it gives you.
vlads is the default after bfury imo, if you are under a lot of pressure and can't openly farm on the map, for example ur behind against a storm or qop who has orchid, you will want the manta asap and it's worth skipping or at least delaying vlads.
Do you get vlads when you have another vlads carrier on your team? I know that is a no-no but anti-mage doesn't really spend much time with his teammates so is it worth it to get a vlads for yourself?
On June 30 2015 17:26 manicmessiah wrote: Do you get vlads when you have another vlads carrier on your team? I know that is a no-no but anti-mage doesn't really spend much time with his teammates so is it worth it to get a vlads for yourself?
yes, for that reason you specified. am farms so fast that it isnt even a big investment in the grand scheme of things
1) Most other heroes don't go Vlads as their second item and your a pos 1 antimage, you should get it first. 2) Vlads is not that good of an item for other heroes, you can tell them to go something else (like HoD) 3) As you said you get the Vlads for other reasons and are generally not close to your team so it doesn't matter that much. 4) Means you can sell it faster and get something else lategame.
So yeah in the off chance someone else gets a Vlads before you still get it, but more likely someone built it after you and then you still have to deal with it.
Well yeah, you won't lose that much HP, but you might find yourself down 200 or so HP from pushing an entire creep wave without yours. You only have the +5 regen from bfly without vlads. Something others didn't mention is that the +5 armor, lifesteal, and +15% damage helps your creeps push much harder when you are splitting.
On June 30 2015 17:57 Dead9 wrote: it also opens up bfly and abyssal as options after manta instead of pretty much forcing u into heart
Vlads or no vlads, you still can go for butterfly or abyssal. It has zero impact on whether you need heart or not.
Am farms so fast after BF anyway that if it means you're constantly at high HP/mana, I would say it's alright to get vlads.
not rly, with vlads u can regen after a fight by hitting creeps. without vlads, you can find yourself very low after a fight and being unable to push. thats partly where having a heart comes in.
On June 30 2015 17:26 manicmessiah wrote: Do you get vlads when you have another vlads carrier on your team? I know that is a no-no but anti-mage doesn't really spend much time with his teammates so is it worth it to get a vlads for yourself?
You can farm faster with Vlads while sustaining HP and doing Roshan solo.
If I'm 5 slotted treads-manta-vlads-bfly-abyssal+tp, maybe with a heart or bkb instead of bfly or abyssal, do I get travels next and then replace treads and then replace vlads or would I replace TP with like a heart and then vlads with bkb before getting travels?
Depends on the game. Getting travels at any point after manta is probably fine. You just need to split push harder but it depends on the game I like what vlads does for my creeps quite a lot so if I'm splitting more I'd sell my treads over my vlads and get BoT's.
On June 30 2015 19:50 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Well yeah, you won't lose that much HP, but you might find yourself down 200 or so HP from pushing an entire creep wave without yours. You only have the +5 regen from bfly without vlads. Something others didn't mention is that the +5 armor, lifesteal, and +15% damage helps your creeps push much harder when you are splitting.
Yup, I feel that the difference between Vlads and no Vlads is day and night, especially in pubs where the enemy team generally can't deal well with split pushing.
I feel like getting BoTs as soon as possible and split pushing for rax is really strong right now.
I'm never sure when I should grab BoT's. I usually get them after my heart, around the same time I pick up a talisman of evasion, which lets me ditch the TP slot. But they can have a big impact if you grab them earlier. The attack speed and stats from treads are nice, but I have to wonder if it makes much of a difference once you get Manta.
Here are some dotabuffs, can probably find vods from that.
It looks like he did it so they could team fight early. It's like some slahsers way type crap. If you notice he gets mana break over stats, it looks like he just wants to brawl and fight. Probably not the optimal way to play AM and you can probably get better heroes to do that with like a bristle or something. I think AM would be pretty fragile even with a vanguard/CG and would still need to play the role of cleanup instead of initiating.
On July 02 2015 12:57 Sceptre wrote: I'm never sure when I should grab BoT's. I usually get them after my heart, around the same time I pick up a talisman of evasion, which lets me ditch the TP slot. But they can have a big impact if you grab them earlier. The attack speed and stats from treads are nice, but I have to wonder if it makes much of a difference once you get Manta.
You shouldn't replace your treads unless you need to. Like if I was 6 slotted and I'm selling treads for BoT's then yeah, but if I'm getting travels after manta then I'm not selling my treads to do it. The treads still give you a ton of IAS and 9 strength which is huge if you actually do need to fight.
There was a game awhile ago where a chinese team ran a hyper aggressive burst lineup, nyx clock storm qop, trying to heavily shut down AM early, and the AM very astutely got vanguard after treads, skipping bfury. Enemy lineup was all about bursting him and had no answer to AM simply surviving their burst. So long as AM could not fall too far behind the game was easy for him. Incredibly situational though.
might as well just have gotten vit booster + RoH. If you value the damage block that much (I don't) you could also have gotten PMS, but this leaves you slot-strapped.
On July 11 2015 16:13 Ver wrote: There was a game awhile ago where a chinese team ran a hyper aggressive burst lineup, nyx clock storm qop, trying to heavily shut down AM early, and the AM very astutely got vanguard after treads, skipping bfury. Enemy lineup was all about bursting him and had no answer to AM simply surviving their burst. So long as AM could not fall too far behind the game was easy for him. Incredibly situational though.
The other little adaptations made by the AM that complemented the Vanguard are notable as well--particularly the choice to get Aquila+Wand as well, and the 4-1-4 skill order.
Vanguard is good for those kinds of games, but you kind of have to commit to it (it was also somewhat more powerful before AM's BAT nerf which made it the "go-to" way to play AM in 6.72 DotA 1). The other items and change in skill order represent a change toward your overall approach to the hero in a game where the item advantage/flash-farm ability of BF + Stats build are simply not necessary to actually win the game
On July 11 2015 21:01 juracule wrote: might as well just have gotten vit booster + RoH. If you value the damage block that much (I don't) you could also have gotten PMS, but this leaves you slot-strapped.
If you got Vit and RoH separately you would have to ditch one of the other cost-effective early combat items.
You don't really gain anything by keeping the Vit and RoH separate with this kind of approach. You're not going to go back for BF so can't make back the RoH's slot by combining it into your QB (it'll just sit there), and by the time you'd use the Vit Booster for Heart, the game is largely going to be over. The kind of game where you'd go VG is the kind where you don't need the blindingly fast farm advantage of a BF and just fundamentally *getting* to 4th item is usually already going to be a won game--so saving 1.1k gold for that Heart is going to be relatively inconsequential to the game outcome, where having the slightly earlier combat power of VG+another small item isn't.
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
Dodge him and hope he has no impact :D I mean it really depends how fed he gets. You can do your part by not feeding him. Shouldn't be an issue by just blink tp.
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
try not to rofl. It's super annoying. But get a vlads and if he's alone and no blademail you can just stand there and manfight him while ruptured. Carry a TP and keep your positioning tot he side of the map while not hitting a creep, that way your blink into the woods is a much shorter blink. What I mean by this is hug the tree line in whatever lane you are in while you are not hitting a creep that way if you get ruptuired you can just blink into the treeline while tanking minimal damage and TP home. You should only need to do that blink TP while ruptured if there is a support with him to stop you from TPing, at which point you need to make sure your blink doesn't cause you to take enough damage for true sight to be given which would allow the support to stun you in the trees.
That and also be careful and don't over extend. When in doubt, walk back to your woods and farm there where it is safer. Same deal as playing against a disruptor. Play a bit more safer while still getting your farm.
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
try not to rofl. It's super annoying. But get a vlads and if he's alone and no blademail you can just stand there and manfight him while ruptured. Carry a TP and keep your positioning tot he side of the map while not hitting a creep, that way your blink into the woods is a much shorter blink. What I mean by this is hug the tree line in whatever lane you are in while you are not hitting a creep that way if you get ruptuired you can just blink into the treeline while tanking minimal damage and TP home. You should only need to do that blink TP while ruptured if there is a support with him to stop you from TPing, at which point you need to make sure your blink doesn't cause you to take enough damage for true sight to be given which would allow the support to stun you in the trees.
That and also be careful and don't over extend. When in doubt, walk back to your woods and farm there where it is safer. Same deal as playing against a disruptor. Play a bit more safer while still getting your farm.
most of the bs i face either gets blademail or shadowblade as first item, and both items prevent you from manfighting him (if he pre-rage and hits you the the sblade burst you will already be at 2/3 and in no condition to manfight)
thanks for your tip about skirting the treeline though, that would certainly prove useful for me in the future ty
You actually dont take the blink rupture damage if you command the hero to walk forward while blinking but I think that only applies to qop since am's blink isn't far enough
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
try not to rofl. It's super annoying. But get a vlads and if he's alone and no blademail you can just stand there and manfight him while ruptured. Carry a TP and keep your positioning tot he side of the map while not hitting a creep, that way your blink into the woods is a much shorter blink. What I mean by this is hug the tree line in whatever lane you are in while you are not hitting a creep that way if you get ruptuired you can just blink into the treeline while tanking minimal damage and TP home. You should only need to do that blink TP while ruptured if there is a support with him to stop you from TPing, at which point you need to make sure your blink doesn't cause you to take enough damage for true sight to be given which would allow the support to stun you in the trees.
That and also be careful and don't over extend. When in doubt, walk back to your woods and farm there where it is safer. Same deal as playing against a disruptor. Play a bit more safer while still getting your farm.
most of the bs i face either gets blademail or shadowblade as first item, and both items prevent you from manfighting him (if he pre-rage and hits you the the sblade burst you will already be at 2/3 and in no condition to manfight)
thanks for your tip about skirting the treeline though, that would certainly prove useful for me in the future ty
Bloodrage is also going to increase the damage he is taking, which should also increase the amount you are lifestealing with Vlad's. Like I said, you can't fight him when he's got a blademail which is common, but you will encounter a few idiots who will get something else. Even with the shadowblade initial damage I think you can still manfight him. I'm not sure how all bloodseekers skill but from what I understand people usually max silence last, but if they have that maxed it could do enough to hurt you. With treads/stats by level 11 you should have around 1100 HP.
I just tested it in a bot game real quick. AM w/ treads/battlefury/vlads/PMS vs BS with treads/shadowblade/PMS/Aquila AM survived with like 350HP but it was close since I think I regen'd when killing him. But still its close. If you have your blink location selected and use quick cast it shoudl be pretty easy to instantly blink after the shadowblade strike, andif he goes rupture first without the Sblade hit then he loses like 200 damage. Either way unless you have complete downs you should be able to blink out before he can silence you or hit you with a bloodrage
On July 12 2015 23:41 Thermia wrote: You actually dont take the blink rupture damage if you command the hero to walk forward while blinking but I think that only applies to qop since am's blink isn't far enough
It only applies to qop. The reason is because qop's blink is 1300 exactly at all levels, while AM's maxes out at like 1150. Bloodseeker won't do rupture damage if you move >1300 range in less than .25 seconds. So with QoP's blink it works, but doesn't work with any other blink, unless you want to get really technical and classify NP TP as a blink.
Also, when you use timewalk you don't take any damage from rupture unless you walk under like 500 range.
On July 13 2015 00:54 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:If you have your blink location selected and use quick cast it shoudl be pretty easy to instantly blink after the shadowblade strike, andif he goes rupture first without the Sblade hit then he loses like 200 damage. Either way unless you have complete downs you should be able to blink out before he can silence you or hit you with a bloodrage
Rupture has 1000 range, he can Rupture->Shadowblade to engage because for the most part he can find ways to Rupture you from out of vision.
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
If possible try to not pick it against bloodseeker. Am does farm much faster than bloodseeker so if he's not spiraling out of control from killing everyone and your farm is better there does come a point where you can stand and manfight (as long as he doesn't have help).
Still, bs is one of the few picks that makes me not want to play am in a game. The matchup is just awful.
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
If possible try to not pick it against bloodseeker. Am does farm much faster than bloodseeker so if he's not spiraling out of control from killing everyone and your farm is better there does come a point where you can stand and manfight (as long as he doesn't have help).
Still, bs is one of the few picks that makes me not want to play am in a game. The matchup is just awful.
I think once AM gets manta+bkb you should be able to annihilate him 1v1, assuming that you've been farming well and bloodseeker hasn't been feeding on the rest of you team too hard. I think you just want to avoid bloodseeker and team fighting as much as possible until this point, and then just start doing regular am things afterwards.
Basher is usually the turning point in my games when I can manfight seeker, as long as you manta the aoe he dies pretty quickly if you land one bash while he's bloodraged. I don't usually like buying bkb though unless they actually have a lot of cc that also doesnt go through bkb. Usually it seems like team either have enough stuff that goes through it that it doesnt help a lot or they dont have enough to lock you down with it all; maybe thats just my sample size of games.
On July 12 2015 14:53 zelphin wrote: someone teach me how to fight bloodseeker
If possible try to not pick it against bloodseeker. Am does farm much faster than bloodseeker so if he's not spiraling out of control from killing everyone and your farm is better there does come a point where you can stand and manfight (as long as he doesn't have help).
Still, bs is one of the few picks that makes me not want to play am in a game. The matchup is just awful.
I think once AM gets manta+bkb you should be able to annihilate him 1v1, assuming that you've been farming well and bloodseeker hasn't been feeding on the rest of you team too hard. I think you just want to avoid bloodseeker and team fighting as much as possible until this point, and then just start doing regular am things afterwards.
I don't think you need bkb honestly. Even if he has a blademail your illusions should shred him and split the damage away from your hero.
On July 13 2015 00:54 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:If you have your blink location selected and use quick cast it shoudl be pretty easy to instantly blink after the shadowblade strike, andif he goes rupture first without the Sblade hit then he loses like 200 damage. Either way unless you have complete downs you should be able to blink out before he can silence you or hit you with a bloodrage
Rupture has 1000 range, he can Rupture->Shadowblade to engage because for the most part he can find ways to Rupture you from out of vision.
Then it should be even easier to blink/tp or just tp out. That method of initiation seems like it gives AM plenty of time to calculate a blink TP or just a TP.
Is PMS+Tango a viable opening set of starting items for AM if you will mostly be harassed by right clicks in lane, and not so many spells?
Eg. in a 1v1 vs ranged heroes like Windrunner or Puck. Although both of those heroes have nukes, they are dodgeable if you can see them coming in most cases, so would PMS+Tango start be okay here?
On July 14 2015 00:38 Fencar wrote: Is PMS+Tango a viable opening set of starting items for AM if you will mostly be harassed by right clicks in lane, and not so many spells?
Eg. in a 1v1 vs ranged heroes like Windrunner or Puck. Although both of those heroes have nukes, they are dodgeable if you can see them coming in most cases, so would PMS+Tango start be okay here?
I've been doing it against Mirana/Wind and I think it works well.
That opening seems fine as long as you are planning to play aggressive on them early. You will probably need to ship yourself more regen though, but it will let you trade better early on.
At that point you may as well start Tango+Salve+Slipper and buy the 2nd Slippers at the side shop after you have 110 gold.
Having to ship regen is not very convenient and if your mid is bottle-crowing, delaying his Bottle just to send a Salve or extra Tangos that you could have started with is very likely to piss them off. The PMS is fantastic for those lanes, but the incremental gain of having a PMS immediately vs. after getting 1-2 creeps is not worth the potential inconvenience if you have to send extra regen.
On July 14 2015 03:05 TheYango wrote: At that point you may as well start Tango+Salve+Slipper and buy the 2nd Slippers at the side shop after you have 110 gold.
Having to ship regen is not very convenient and if your mid is bottle-crowing, delaying his Bottle just to send a Salve or extra Tangos that you could have started with is very likely to piss them off. The PMS is fantastic for those lanes, but the incremental gain of having a PMS immediately vs. after getting 1-2 creeps is not worth the potential inconvenience if you have to send extra regen.
Yeah I'd agree with that. You can usually send more regen pretty quick and if the mid opened something like null/wraithband instead of 2x branch then you can probably send the regen in time, but you need to gauge it.
On July 14 2015 03:05 TheYango wrote: At that point you may as well start Tango+Salve+Slipper and buy the 2nd Slippers at the side shop after you have 110 gold.
Having to ship regen is not very convenient and if your mid is bottle-crowing, delaying his Bottle just to send a Salve or extra Tangos that you could have started with is very likely to piss them off. The PMS is fantastic for those lanes, but the incremental gain of having a PMS immediately vs. after getting 1-2 creeps is not worth the potential inconvenience if you have to send extra regen.
That's Tango+Salve+Slipper+Stout
But yeah I used to do that, but I got recommended 2branch instead of the slipper so I've been using that. Maybe not the greatest of ideas to blindly do that. In any case I really liked it since you get your core laning items (PMS, Treads, QB) 100 gold more quickly which I thought was very helpful in lane.
How do you guys feel about the manta -> moonshard build on AM, with no Vlads? Here's how I see the moonshard vs vlads:
Pros: + faster pushing power (attack speed > minion armour+life steal) + faster manta = safer vs silences, ect. (although could go manta -> vlads) + more damage in teamfights + still get vlads benefits if team member gets one + vlads is not very useful late game, will get true 6(7) slot faster
Cons: - less regen (life steal and mana), may have to base more often - lower hp = safer play in general - may be difficult to do ancient stacks and rosh - 3rd item will come slower (moonshard more expensive than vlads) - no option to get ring of regen early
It almost seems like with the moonshard you are going more towards a spectre idea where you go back to fountain before teamfights. Haven't really tested it my self, but I'm pretty sure you will push towers a lot faster. Thing is, I'm not sure if you will farm faster since you will have to base more often, also if you are lower hp you can't go for more risky farming patterns. Team fight wise, it would be much stronger if you have another vlads on your team since your passive is quite significant in the early-ish parts of the game.
Overall I think it's pretty good getting moonshard after manta, I think Liquid really made it work for them during the qualifiers. It'll be interesting to see if this becomes the new standard build.
Do people actually get Vlad's after Manta? I never really saw the use for that since by the time you have manta you'll have enough stats for BF regen to be enough to tank creeps.
if you get vlad's it's definitely before manta... after manta is the point where you can ask a teammate to vlad's and if you're going for 1v9 splitpush you want to be going towards shit like heart bfly or something
The BF / Manta / BKB / Moon Shard / Heart-build on AM is a frontline siege AM. You can frontline like mad but lack the dive potential with Abyssal. They have two different uses.
On January 12 2016 06:05 AwfuL_ wrote: Do people actually get Vlad's after Manta? I never really saw the use for that since by the time you have manta you'll have enough stats for BF regen to be enough to tank creeps.
as was said before, vlads should only delay manta by about 2 mins, and vlads ensures ur alway sfull hp, ready to tp to a fight and able to farm in more dangerous places
On January 12 2016 06:52 ahswtini wrote: as was said before, vlads should only delay manta by about 2 mins, and vlads ensures ur alway sfull hp, ready to tp to a fight and able to farm in more dangerous places
But there's not really a point to buy the Vlad's after the Manta rather than before, which is the point.
Moon Shard seems quite situational. The fact that Manta Illusions do not benefit from it is a pretty significant downside when it comes to how AM plays at his 2nd/3rd item (and one you overlooked). Your main hero does more damage, but your Manta Illusions will also apply way less pressure when splitpushing because the 4k gold spent on Moon Shard does not make them stronger in any way.
I don't think it competes with Vlad's at all because the two items serve completely different purposes. Comparing them doesn't make much sense.
naked moonshards is a 'winning really hard' item where u just want to end the game. if ur frontline sieging then surely bfly with its evasion and stats is better
The thing is, even for sieging, having an item that makes stronger illusions tends to contribute more meaningfully because there are a lot of situations where your illusions get to spend more time hitting buildings than you do in a siege.
Moon Shard's really just pure up-front damage and that's it. It doesn't improve illusions in any way other than the night vision increase, making it less than ideal for sieging. It doesn't provide any survivability like BFly or BKB do, and it doesn't have the utility of Basher. There are games for it, but you have to judge that raw damage is what you need, but you have to understand that you're giving up one of these things until you're 6/7 slotted and have both.
On January 12 2016 18:16 ahswtini wrote: i misread, my bad.
naked moonshards is a 'winning really hard' item where u just want to end the game. if ur frontline sieging then surely bfly with its evasion and stats is better
I think of mooonshard as being more of a "oh shit they are going to end the game, i dont have buyback on CD, already have abyssal and can't complete heart / butterfly, BKB isn't helpful, I need an item RIGHT NOW" kind of item.
On January 12 2016 06:52 ahswtini wrote: as was said before, vlads should only delay manta by about 2 mins, and vlads ensures ur alway sfull hp, ready to tp to a fight and able to farm in more dangerous places
But there's not really a point to buy the Vlad's after the Manta rather than before, which is the point.
Moon Shard seems quite situational. The fact that Manta Illusions do not benefit from it is a pretty significant downside when it comes to how AM plays at his 2nd/3rd item (and one you overlooked). Your main hero does more damage, but your Manta Illusions will also apply way less pressure when splitpushing because the 4k gold spent on Moon Shard does not make them stronger in any way.
I don't think it competes with Vlad's at all because the two items serve completely different purposes. Comparing them doesn't make much sense.
I don't think early moonshard if for sieging, I think it's main benefits are: faster tower damage, more team fight damage, and an overall earlier 7 slot. All of these, while maintaining comparable farm rate to vlads, the issue I see with basher/blfy/bkb as a 3rd item is that they don't really increase your farm rate (bfly slightly but it's also very expensive). If you skip the vlads these benefits kick in earlier, while if you went BF->vlads->manta->moonshard->w/e, as you point out you will be missing out on a lot of utility/strength from other items (basher is similar price to vlads).
Illusions don't really benefit much from vlads that much either. It would help most in the case where you only split push with your illusions, and you farm elsewhere. But I think the point of moonshard is to push to tower as quickly as possible and do as much damage in the time that you have before some response is forced. One other thing, if you want to have your manta up for a fight it becomes very risky to push with your illusions, so any benefits from illusions are moot anyways.
I wanted to point out the stylistic differences between going Vlads first or going moonshard after manta, these two builds seem to be the most popular at the moment (BF->Vlads->manta has been cookie cutter build for a few months now). That's why I think that these items and play styles should be looked at in particular.
On January 13 2016 04:51 emperorchampion wrote: I don't think early moonshard if for sieging, I think it's main benefits are: faster tower damage, more team fight damage,
...so for sieging? the faster you can bring down towers, the better when you're looking to high ground. i think you two might have misunderstood each other there.
On January 13 2016 04:51 emperorchampion wrote: All of these, while maintaining comparable farm rate to vlads, the issue I see with basher/blfy/bkb as a 3rd item is that they don't really increase your farm rate (bfly slightly but it's also very expensive). If you skip the vlads these benefits kick in earlier, while if you went BF->vlads->manta->moonshard->w/e, as you point out you will be missing out on a lot of utility/strength from other items (basher is similar price to vlads).
Illusions don't really benefit much from vlads that much either. It would help most in the case where you only split push with your illusions, and you farm elsewhere. But I think the point of moonshard is to push to tower as quickly as possible and do as much damage in the time that you have before some response is forced. One other thing, if you want to have your manta up for a fight it becomes very risky to push with your illusions, so any benefits from illusions are moot anyways.
I wanted to point out the stylistic differences between going Vlads first or going moonshard after manta, these two builds seem to be the most popular at the moment (BF->Vlads->manta has been cookie cutter build for a few months now). That's why I think that these items and play styles should be looked at in particular.
except moonshard costs twice as much and delays your manta further while providing no armor or lifesteal to do ancient stacks with. that last part, the ancients, will get you to your next item faster than waiting for the additional 2k or buying 1 hyperstone at a time. the attack speed is nice, but like yango said, you'd want it for a different purpose. the dmg, lifesteal, and bit of armor, stats, and regen is too good to pass up at that timing.
by the time you reach your 3rd item is when you're going to start encountering enemy resistance, assuming you're farming 10 cs/min (and you should). that item is usually the one you get bc you know you're going to need to fight bc the enemy is 5 manning AT you or are 5 manning TO you when you are split pushing. and if they aren't meeting you with some sort of resistance, you probably could have bought a dagon and won the game
there's definitely stylistic differences, but one is clearly better than the other for most, if not all, games at the post-battlefury timing you're looking at. there's a reason its considered cookie cutter!
On January 13 2016 04:51 emperorchampion wrote: I don't think early moonshard if for sieging, I think it's main benefits are: faster tower damage, more team fight damage,
...so for sieging? the faster you can bring down towers, the better when you're looking to high ground. i think you two might have misunderstood each other there.
I kind of assume sieging = 5v5 high ground push, where as I'm talking about solo split push.
On January 13 2016 04:51 emperorchampion wrote: All of these, while maintaining comparable farm rate to vlads, the issue I see with basher/blfy/bkb as a 3rd item is that they don't really increase your farm rate (bfly slightly but it's also very expensive). If you skip the vlads these benefits kick in earlier, while if you went BF->vlads->manta->moonshard->w/e, as you point out you will be missing out on a lot of utility/strength from other items (basher is similar price to vlads).
Illusions don't really benefit much from vlads that much either. It would help most in the case where you only split push with your illusions, and you farm elsewhere. But I think the point of moonshard is to push to tower as quickly as possible and do as much damage in the time that you have before some response is forced. One other thing, if you want to have your manta up for a fight it becomes very risky to push with your illusions, so any benefits from illusions are moot anyways.
I wanted to point out the stylistic differences between going Vlads first or going moonshard after manta, these two builds seem to be the most popular at the moment (BF->Vlads->manta has been cookie cutter build for a few months now). That's why I think that these items and play styles should be looked at in particular.
except moonshard costs twice as much and delays your manta further while providing no armor or lifesteal to do ancient stacks with. that last part, the ancients, will get you to your next item faster than waiting for the additional 2k or buying 1 hyperstone at a time. the attack speed is nice, but like yango said, you'd want it for a different purpose. the dmg, lifesteal, and bit of armor, stats, and regen is too good to pass up at that timing.
by the time you reach your 3rd item is when you're going to start encountering enemy resistance, assuming you're farming 10 cs/min (and you should). that item is usually the one you get bc you know you're going to need to fight bc the enemy is 5 manning AT you or are 5 manning TO you when you are split pushing. and if they aren't meeting you with some sort of resistance, you probably could have bought a dagon and won the game
there's definitely stylistic differences, but one is clearly better than the other for most, if not all, games at the post-battlefury timing you're looking at. there's a reason its considered cookie cutter!
As I noted earlier ancient stacks and rosh will probably pose a problem for just a hyperstone/manta AM. Overall I'm not sure how the extra attack speed vs more difficulty doing ancient stacks and lower hp will affect farming speed.
If you team has a vlads, then the important stats are already provided in a fight. The 5 man push towards your base is the exact situation where I think moonshard 3rd is best. You want to deal as much damage to towers as possible in a short period, then tp to fountain and join your team in a fight.
On January 13 2016 08:15 emperorchampion wrote: If you team has a vlads, then the important stats are already provided in a fight. The 5 man push towards your base is the exact situation where I think moonshard 3rd is best. You want to deal as much damage to towers as possible in a short period, then tp to fountain and join your team in a fight.
Except in that position, Shard is a suboptimal teamfighting item because you don't have the critical mass survivability from levels that allows you to just jump in and kill people with a damage item. Having a survivability item like BKB increases your teamfight effectiveness more in that case.
It's only in the case where your team is ahead enough that you reached critical mass survivability without committing an item where you actually teamfight better with a pure damage item. It's simply not a luxury you can afford in a losing game because with the way AM works you have to reach that critical mass where you can handle up-front damage since your natural mana denial locks people out of getting a second round of spells and Mana Void punishes people for over-committing spells and and not killing you.
I kind of assume sieging = 5v5 high ground push, where as I'm talking about solo split push.
in either scenario/definition, at any tower, the faster you can deal damage to the tower, the better off you are.
On January 13 2016 08:15 emperorchampion wrote:
As I noted earlier ancient stacks and rosh will probably pose a problem for just a hyperstone/manta AM. Overall I'm not sure how the extra attack speed vs more difficulty doing ancient stacks and lower hp will affect farming speed.
If you team has a vlads, then the important stats are already provided in a fight. The 5 man push towards your base is the exact situation where I think moonshard 3rd is best. You want to deal as much damage to towers as possible in a short period, then tp to fountain and join your team in a fight.
if you get a hyperstone, im like 95% sure you cannot solo ancient stacks with just a battlefury + hyperstone because you don't have the stats/lifesteal to do it in one go (i assume hyperstone bc its roughly the price of vlads, so the timing would be the same). lets assume im wrong though..even if you could do an ancient stack without the stats/lifesteal you're gonna be deep in the red and, as a result, taking a huge risk. but who knows, maybe it will pay off bc the enemy doesn't have your ancients warded after you get your battlefury. either way once you get your vlads, one of the reasons it will only delay manta by 2min is bc you can do ancient stacks.
(edit) actually this is exactly why you should get vlads over a moon shard if you're debating between the two. you can (in all likelyhood) farm a vlads -> moonshard faster than just a moonshard by itself because of the ancients lol (/edit)
additionally, you used to be able to solo roshan with a certain bf + vlads + yasha (?) timing couldn't you? not 100% if that is the case now or was ever the case. i remember discussing it with someone during TI but can't remember the specifics. maybe someone else will. either way, thats another thing you cannot do with a hyperstone/moon shard
later on in the game someone should have a vlads so you can sell it so thats moot. there are very few circumstances where your team is going to be picking up a vlads that early tho, its rarely ever worth it and supports have other needs to fulfill before they start thinking about an item like that.
On January 13 2016 08:15 emperorchampion wrote: If you team has a vlads, then the important stats are already provided in a fight. The 5 man push towards your base is the exact situation where I think moonshard 3rd is best. You want to deal as much damage to towers as possible in a short period, then tp to fountain and join your team in a fight.
Except in that position, Shard is a suboptimal teamfighting item because you don't have the critical mass survivability from levels that allows you to just jump in and kill people with a damage item. Having a survivability item like BKB increases your teamfight effectiveness more in that case.
It's only in the case where your team is ahead enough that you reached critical mass survivability without committing an item where you actually teamfight better with a pure damage item.
BKB is probably the worst item for farming though, you also have the option of hyperstone->bkb->moonshard if you really needed it. This is same cost as getting a vlads.
Not sure the second part is true, especially considering heros with escapes and supports with heals or dazzle/oracle/wyvern(rip).
Early hyperstones/moonshard is probably considerably worse in pubs also.
i explained why your 3rd item is usually geared towards fighting in my 1st reply:
by the time you reach your 3rd item is when you're going to start encountering enemy resistance, assuming you're farming 10 cs/min (and you should). that item is usually the one you get bc you know you're going to need to fight bc the enemy is 5 manning AT you or are 5 manning TO you when you are split pushing. and if they aren't meeting you with some sort of resistance, you probably could have bought a dagon and won the game
as for farming - that was covered in my entire 2nd reply which im not quoting
On January 13 2016 08:52 emperorchampion wrote: BKB is probably the worst item for farming though
This is an irrelevant downside because a team that can go high ground against you at 25 minutes is also a team that you probably have inevitability against lategame. Incremental farming speed differences are meaningless against a team that's worse than you lategame anyway. Your priority in that case is just GETTING to lategame.
If you are getting high grounded in 25 minutes by a team that ALSO has inevitability against you lategame, then you are honestly probably fucked regardless of item choice because if a better lategame hero like Spectre is pushing your high ground at 25 minutes something majorly tragic happened in that game.
how do you guys usually build your AM when you know you're gonna be against a dark seer solo off? more points in magic shield? do you ferry regen out or can you get what you'll need right by the horn?
with soul ring it didnt seem to matter much and i would gain some temporary space, but sometimes bullying him would cause me to miss some CS. am i aiming to get him so he can't double ion shell? or am i am i just doing what i can to lower his mana so he feels uncomfortable? i felt as though i was climbing an uphill battle.
it was definitely in part to the fact that i had another melee support tho..the guy randomed ogre.. lane was hard.
yeah you want to trade more with DS, spell shield is okay early, but double ion shell hurts a lot. Generally you should out level the shit out of a dark seer and if you keep his mana relatively low any gank usually results in a kill and you can occasionally solo a careless DS. I think against DS its fine to not go burning and go 3-1-1 or 2-1-2 if you can trade well with him. Forcing him to shell himself means he's not shelling the creep wave.
You could just tell your support to go Oracle or Omniknight and just purge the ionshell off the creep, and then DS becomes useless.
Can do same thing with a Chen if he can find a Satyr purger early, and then use the creep to ruin DS' life while Chen stacks hard camps, then at 3-4 stacks he can grab a Wildkin and catch up on farm/levels wiping the stack by which point AM should be able to handle himself.
get your support to force him out of exp until you're level 3 and hes still hopefully level 1 and stays level 1 for even longer. that is the most important part. the faster ds levels, the more he hurts you can with mana burn help but you have to be careful with leveling it first as always. i wouldnt level it past 2 in laning since you're not going to be hitting him much anyway
secure farm with quelling roh ror (headress -> vlads bif you want to squeeze out slot efficiency)
manta before vlads is okay imo. even headdress into straight manta. obviously the farming to get there is situational but what the faster manta does offer over the faster vlads (ancients and bouncing to the extra camp) is the pickoff/fighting potential for those few minutes of time. considering yasha offers around the same speed of farming that vlads does, it's not too farfetched a route after you decide what your farming will look like for the next few minutes.
On March 21 2016 17:36 rabidch wrote: get your support to force him out of exp until you're level 3 and hes still hopefully level 1 and stays level 1 for even longer. that is the most important part. the faster ds levels, the more he hurts you can with mana burn help but you have to be careful with leveling it first as always. i wouldnt level it past 2 in laning since you're not going to be hitting him much anyway
secure farm with quelling roh ror (headress -> vlads bif you want to squeeze out slot efficiency)
yeah i was watching the replay and catching him was really difficult. you wanna save your blink to get away from the ion shell surge, so its hard to justify using it that liberally..plus you ideally want some points into stats and lvling your mana shield takes away from that. makes sense.
i knew i wanted an early QB so i got the rune and picked one up from the side shop. do i still bother with stout/PMS here? I personally like PMS when i know im gonna get my roh before boots bc im not as nimble, so i take more dmg from creeps without one. plus the extra agi allows me to get more mana break swipes in early/kill the ion shelled creep faster. am i wrong in justifying that purchase?
i definitely knew that my support was going to cause me trouble, but i definitely need to know how to lane against him when i can't rely on my support bc he's a potato or in case of a jungler plus a duo party that goes top together..bc that definitely happens without knowing its gonna happen more often than you'd think, even if i have AM selected lol
tbh if you miss CS in your first couple of waves it's fine, it's way more important to bully the DS out of the lane early. This is less effective than it used to be because of the extra big camp though since the ds can stay close by and walk down if/when you lose creep equilibrium
u can 1v1 against ds even without support, though obviously it's much easier if u have someone zone him out it's not great but u should be able to get pretty reasonable farm bring extra regen to lane, max spell shield first, and go ror roh hatchet > treads > bfury
On March 21 2016 17:36 rabidch wrote: get your support to force him out of exp until you're level 3 and hes still hopefully level 1 and stays level 1 for even longer. that is the most important part. the faster ds levels, the more he hurts you can with mana burn help but you have to be careful with leveling it first as always. i wouldnt level it past 2 in laning since you're not going to be hitting him much anyway
secure farm with quelling roh ror (headress -> vlads bif you want to squeeze out slot efficiency)
yeah i was watching the replay and catching him was really difficult. you wanna save your blink to get away from the ion shell surge, so its hard to justify using it that liberally..plus you ideally want some points into stats and lvling your mana shield takes away from that. makes sense.
i knew i wanted an early QB so i got the rune and picked one up from the side shop. do i still bother with stout/PMS here? I personally like PMS when i know im gonna get my roh before boots bc im not as nimble, so i take more dmg from creeps without one. plus the extra agi allows me to get more mana break swipes in early/kill the ion shelled creep faster. am i wrong in justifying that purchase?
i definitely knew that my support was going to cause me trouble, but i definitely need to know how to lane against him when i can't rely on my support bc he's a potato or in case of a jungler plus a duo party that goes top together..bc that definitely happens without knowing its gonna happen more often than you'd think, even if i have AM selected lol
You absolutely need stout/PMS against DS, moreso than vs other offlaners, since DS shoves the wave which means you end up tanking creeps under tower a lot.
On March 21 2016 17:36 rabidch wrote: get your support to force him out of exp until you're level 3 and hes still hopefully level 1 and stays level 1 for even longer. that is the most important part. the faster ds levels, the more he hurts you can with mana burn help but you have to be careful with leveling it first as always. i wouldnt level it past 2 in laning since you're not going to be hitting him much anyway
secure farm with quelling roh ror (headress -> vlads bif you want to squeeze out slot efficiency)
yeah i was watching the replay and catching him was really difficult. you wanna save your blink to get away from the ion shell surge, so its hard to justify using it that liberally..plus you ideally want some points into stats and lvling your mana shield takes away from that. makes sense.
i knew i wanted an early QB so i got the rune and picked one up from the side shop. do i still bother with stout/PMS here? I personally like PMS when i know im gonna get my roh before boots bc im not as nimble, so i take more dmg from creeps without one. plus the extra agi allows me to get more mana break swipes in early/kill the ion shelled creep faster. am i wrong in justifying that purchase?
i definitely knew that my support was going to cause me trouble, but i definitely need to know how to lane against him when i can't rely on my support bc he's a potato or in case of a jungler plus a duo party that goes top together..bc that definitely happens without knowing its gonna happen more often than you'd think, even if i have AM selected lol
You absolutely need stout/PMS against DS, moreso than vs other offlaners, since DS shoves the wave which means you end up tanking creeps under tower a lot.
this was in reference to the post i quoted above where we're completely zoning out the DS where we're able to kill the lvl 1 ion shell'd creep. that means the lane wont be shoved nearly as much as you are thinking.
On March 22 2016 08:10 Dead9 wrote: u can 1v1 against ds even without support, though obviously it's much easier if u have someone zone him out it's not great but u should be able to get pretty reasonable farm bring extra regen to lane, max spell shield first, and go ror roh hatchet > treads > bfury
is your last line only if you're soloing the DS? otherwise its conflicting with the information above
On March 22 2016 15:16 Dead9 wrote: huh conflicting with what information am does fine against ds 1v1, u generally end up with less than freefarm but its not too bad
Above, people are saying one point in spell shield is sufficient
ive never tried laning against ds without 3 or 4 points in spell shield u can probably skip some points with adequate support but its not a hard lane with max spell shield
If your supports are not helping you I think you have to go extra points in spell shield, if dark seer shells himself there should be no way you can trade hits with him and once he gets soul ring mana burn is ineffective. I have played the lane many times and although its uncomfortable you are better off than other melee carries and you shoudn't get totally forced out of lane if you go 8 tangoes->ror->roh->headdress.
is Vlad's actually a necessary first or second item after bfury on am if you managed to level up a decent amount of stats before leveling blink/mana burn?
On March 25 2016 22:49 DazzleEnthusiast wrote: is Vlad's actually a necessary first or second item after bfury on am if you managed to level up a decent amount of stats before leveling blink/mana burn?
it's been a subject of debate, some people like me think it's almost-always-core unless you really need to rush the manta due to a key silence or catch ability that manta can help with; some people think it's primarily good and only worth it if you can take more towers with it and/or push with your team earlier
here's the benefits of vlads 1. never have to actually base again unless youre cornered and forced to tp and low enough mana that it's worth it. otherwise, you can always tp to another tower and start farming back up to full hp 2. can do ancient stacks without getting low (or having to slow down by kiting) 3. helps you do more damage to towers when your splitpush isnt responded to quickly due to vlads aura and creeps 4. generally allows you to cut waves in more risky locations 5. makes rosh a lot easier (you wont want to solo it with only bfury + vlads but if you have any teammate that's half decent for rosh with a medallion or something, you can do it then)
cons: 1. will eventually have to sell the item for a slot 2. 2300 gold that could be part of your manta 3. bfury + manta is still better for fighting than bfury + vlads + yasha at that timing 4. with absolute free reign, straight bfury -> manta is probably a higher gpm/efficiency build. this is assuming that there's absolutely no pressure that vlads would help with though, and that's a rare situation imo
On March 25 2016 22:49 DazzleEnthusiast wrote: is Vlad's actually a necessary first or second item after bfury on am if you managed to level up a decent amount of stats before leveling blink/mana burn?
it's been discussed a bit in this thread already, imagine urn on spectre serving the same sort of role. first of all, it's a cheap item, aura 5 armor, bonus damage, etc.
both urn and vlads are used to sustain HP to farm lane and jungle. only, either of those two items in this example caters differently to spec and AM being spec fights, am farms, and you can get the full urn during laning.
-vlads lets you solo rosh as AM 20/24/28 minutes and onwards like most HotD carriers can. -it's almost necessary in those tougher games where you can't show in lane too often. -the ~1mp/s actually translates to 1.2mp/s with battlefury for about 4 total at levels 14-16 and between treads swapping before blinking it helps sustain mana to the point where you're barely losing any.
this is because (and i say this because a lot of people overlook this, even at pro level) "...switching to intelligence before casting a spell and going back to strength or agility right after makes you spend a smaller percentage of your mana pool with that spell, as the percentage is calculated with the same absolute cost, but a higher absolute mana pool" (quoting from liquiddota for ease).
you save around 1% total mana each use this way on a skill like blink for AM while 20-25% is a manavoid and ~8% is another blink. the point is, it adds up and it's a small detail that really good players focus on adjusting to any hero at all. it's like putting stat items in stash or on the ground while you regen in fountain, it just shaves seconds. the the buildup to manta is tougher for newer players because of the whole jungling and lifesteal idea; it's just a thing. camps are nice, but lanes are better as the game gets later.
so to get back to the point and say in the most simple way possible, it's a very convenient and cheap situational item for AM which ends up being good for almost any situation. higher level players will skip vlads to manta to abuse timings, deal with silences, etc, or simply to farm faster in a smaller window because their team and map allow it.
yeah. and i don't really know, personally i use manta to farm most of the early game anyway unless i had a free lane. you manta to lane, potentially dodge/deter gank and gain an extra 0-2 lanes worth of farm while you plan on stacking/jungling. it's just extra utility that you won't see most players using this way. it's understandable to not as there are a bunch of downsides as well.
if i'm playing against an AM and i see him doing this i'll infer depending on how quickly i notice the illusions, he's either at camps closer to base (rune-spot illusions), or recently transferred to farming jungle. this opens him up to ganks and to sneak-roshes since you know where he generally is. and i forget to mention this, but you can use these illusions from further away to cut waves in situations where you can't manfight. but have to defend in some way.
you'll see naga lineups do this repeatedly and stall a push for minutes at a time. there's literally nothing you can do if you have no creepwave going into their highground, and they aint coming out of the little piggy house.
On March 26 2016 20:33 BluemoonSC wrote: Pls keep in mind that Vlad's before manta should only slow your manta by 2 minutes.
Is it a requirement? No. Does it make sense to pick up? Yes.
2mins is with good/undisturbed farm. I'm a strong advocate for vlads for the other reasons people listed like ancients, staying high hp while pushing out lanes, mana regen does help, and not being afraid to just manfight someone solo.
You'll have a good manta timing even with vlads (just depends on the game, 2mins is not every case)
Another point is that it lets you farm more aggressively because your hp don't drop from killing creeps. Farming in the enemies jungle f.e. is a lot safer at 100% hp than at 75% or even 60%.
On March 29 2016 07:30 BluemoonSC wrote: ok so i just played an impossible early game and decided to go battle void because i knew i wasnt farming for shit.
whats your ideal non-battlefury, we're just gonna 5 man before 10minutes build
if u decide u want the battlefury after all i think vlads before battlefury is doable some games
some mix of vlads, drum, urn, yasha->manta, bkb.... is probably good...
On March 29 2016 07:30 BluemoonSC wrote: ok so i just played an impossible early game and decided to go battle void because i knew i wasnt farming for shit.
whats your ideal non-battlefury, we're just gonna 5 man before 10minutes build
I've kind of dicked around with it a bit, treads/urn/vlads and manta/SC is pretty strong. Your mana break does physical, so the solarcrest is a huge bonus. Not sure what order to get the manta/SC in though. I experimented for a game with treads/lotus vs high CC line ups. You can lotus yourself, jump in and basically be immune to hard CC spells since you are super tanky vs them, and they rebound on the supports. This lets your team follow up, or forces the supports to ignore you for 6 seconds.
I didn't win that game, but there were other factors, like an offlane Dusa taking my won lane from me and forcing me to jungle. I haven't experimetned a lot. Vlads/yasha/maelstrom is also a decent alternative farming build. I sometimes play it when I have a CM, its just awkward without her because you lack the constant blinks you get from the battlefury mana regen, and CM aura supplants that very nicely.
Some of the replays might still be up due to that 3 month thing from Shanghai, if you want any in particular I might have them on my PC. All of them have dotabuff+ though so you can analyze the stats from that if you desire.
On March 29 2016 07:30 BluemoonSC wrote: ok so i just played an impossible early game and decided to go battle void because i knew i wasnt farming for shit.
whats your ideal non-battlefury, we're just gonna 5 man before 10minutes build
On March 29 2016 07:30 BluemoonSC wrote: ok so i just played an impossible early game and decided to go battle void because i knew i wasnt farming for shit.
whats your ideal non-battlefury, we're just gonna 5 man before 10minutes build
Someone asked Burning this question in an interview. This was his response (obviously pre-rubberband yada yada but still applies):
" Anti-mage’s strength lies in overwhelming the opposition with items. If he can’t lead in terms of items, then he actually can’t out-fight many other lategame heroes. So don’t get Vanguard on him, just rush that fast Battlefury and farm it up."
I can't tell if this match is still available but Miracle got absolutely savaged into an 0-7-0 antimage on China servers but quietly just kept farming with treads bfury first and eventually came back off some rubberband kills and his team holding the base well. You'll have a lot easier time making a comeback as AM quietly farming and holding your base than you will 5 manning tower after tower (what does an AM even do in those fights? He's just a creep with a 200-300 dmg aoe nuke)
how do i play this hero against a lion? just had a really tough game which i lost -
i went a quick bkb abyssal wanting to delete the lion every fight, since just bkb + manta isn't enough damage to lock him down while he's running away.
however, by the time i got an abyssal he already has a ghost and he's pretty fast, managing to use ghost before i use abyssal. in the times where i do manage to lock him down, i commit my bkb to blink through his allies, as well as an abyssal just to delete a lion, his teammates just beat me to death afterwards. it's also hard to split push liberally since i can't see him coming with blink.
is there a way i can itemize around that? just go standard bfury manta bfly, and tank one of his disables (blinking in after he casts one of his spells? a good lion may just wait for the am to engage before showing himself)
When I'm playing against annoying disablers, sometimes it's best to only engage when you're 5 Manning. That way, hes forced to use his spells normally reserved for screwing with you. It's also nice bc if you can flank from behind, he may not see you in time to get the ghost off before you blow him up.
On April 11 2016 09:41 findingthelimit wrote: how do i play this hero against a lion? just had a really tough game which i lost -
i went a quick bkb abyssal wanting to delete the lion every fight, since just bkb + manta isn't enough damage to lock him down while he's running away.
however, by the time i got an abyssal he already has a ghost and he's pretty fast, managing to use ghost before i use abyssal. in the times where i do manage to lock him down, i commit my bkb to blink through his allies, as well as an abyssal just to delete a lion, his teammates just beat me to death afterwards. it's also hard to split push liberally since i can't see him coming with blink.
is there a way i can itemize around that? just go standard bfury manta bfly, and tank one of his disables (blinking in after he casts one of his spells? a good lion may just wait for the am to engage before showing himself)
what kind of lion is this? only mid lion should ever be a threat to you on his own, and even then youd have to be at half hp already for him to kill you. a support lion should almost never be a threat to you except for some circumstances where you dont see him coming at all (invis rune, smokes, fog etc), because theres no way a support lion gets out a blink before you have a bfury, and after that point theres no way a lion can chase you around the map with his team just to try and kill you. in teamfights its quite simple. let your teammates engage their team and watch the lion focus his attention to the fight. you blink on him, pop manta, a couple of hits, and mana void for ez kill. in some cases you dont even have to focus on the lion. just let him throw out his disables on your teammates and then jump on their carry or whoever and kill.
also, anti mage is always good. stop caring about what hero is 'good' in this 'meta'. what hero is viable in competitive meta only matters for players that are able to play that level in the first place. for everyone else, any hero is viable, its just some are more easier than others.
i don't think the original question necessarily meant lion on his own was the issue. its just that in the middle of a fight, getting chain disabled is sort of an issue before BKB.
because there is a way that a lion can pick up a blink dagger before that timing (idk why you brought up the BF timing, really..because teams are still gonna be able to smoke and hunt you down just as easily)
until you get bkb, its definitely best to avoid team fighting, paying close attention to who you can see on the map at all times. otherwise, during a team fight, you absolutely want to wait until your team is already engaged and disables are already spent on other heroes before fighting. if the lion is a good player and is holding onto his hex, it can still be very difficult to properly engage before BKB, so i don't recommend it unless you definitely see both spells being used. at that point, your manta + mana void will be incredibly effective.
to elaborate on the "is he good" question - yes you can really play a lot of heroes currently, and yes some heroes are better than others..but to actually answer the question..
in my opinion, he is fantastic right now. there are 2 really popular int heroes right now, invoker and OD which can be wrecked by your manta + abyssal + mana void combo. but the problem is always getting to those items. both heroes are incredibly mid-game oriented and your spell shield will not help you versus the OD's pure dmg orb. if your other 4 heroes can handle a lot of pressure being caused by the enemy team AND you can get your bfury up without losing a ton of towers/your team feeding these heroes, antimage can do really really well.
oh and do yourself a favor..if the enemy team doesn't have any bkb-piercing and has an OD, don't bother with bkb period. get a butterfly. hex no longer removes evasion and OD absolutely positively never wants to buy an mkb.
On April 12 2016 04:25 BluemoonSC wrote: i don't think the original question necessarily meant lion on his own was the issue. its just that in the middle of a fight, getting chain disabled is sort of an issue before BKB.
because there is a way that a lion can pick up a blink dagger before that timing (idk why you brought up the BF timing, really..because teams are still gonna be able to smoke and hunt you down just as easily)
until you get bkb, its definitely best to avoid team fighting, paying close attention to who you can see on the map at all times. otherwise, during a team fight, you absolutely want to wait until your team is already engaged and disables are already spent on other heroes before fighting. if the lion is a good player and is holding onto his hex, it can still be very difficult to properly engage before BKB, so i don't recommend it unless you definitely see both spells being used. at that point, your manta + mana void will be incredibly effective.
to elaborate on the "is he good" question - yes you can really play a lot of heroes currently, and yes some heroes are better than others..but to actually answer the question..
in my opinion, he is fantastic right now. there are 2 really popular int heroes right now, invoker and OD which can be wrecked by your manta + abyssal + mana void combo. but the problem is always getting to those items. both heroes are incredibly mid-game oriented and your spell shield will not help you versus the OD's pure dmg orb. if your other 4 heroes can handle a lot of pressure being caused by the enemy team AND you can get your bfury up without losing a ton of towers/your team feeding these heroes, antimage can do really really well.
oh and do yourself a favor..if the enemy team doesn't have any bkb-piercing and has an OD, don't bother with bkb period. get a butterfly. hex no longer removes evasion and OD absolutely positively never wants to buy an mkb.
Bluemoon is correct; lion himself was never the issue but i guess i wasn't conveying the circumstances well.
My team is behind in net worth, our team is pretty weak and behind (think am top of net worth, rest of my team bottom), and we don't have map control. At that point lion + 1 can have a go at killing me, whereas lion + 2 can certainly kill me (even when i have bkb, if i can't pop it in time), so it becomes very hard to split push. maybe I should have bought wards on my own since it's really tricky for my supports to cross the river or enter the jungle.
in those circumstances where we're behind and i can't seem to be able to split push without getting caught (and subsequently giving off a huge bounty), teamfights seem to be the only option, but as said earlier, since my allies are pretty weak compared to the enemy heroes, it's trivial for the lion to save his spells till i enter the fight as my teammates wouldn't stand a chance to fight their other 4 heroes without me engaging. however, it remains that if i unleash my entire combo on a lion, it's a huge waste unless my mana void hits multiple heroes, but in this instance the lion was pretty far back most of the time.
it may be that the game itself was very close to being un-winnable, but if there is a hero that could carry a team alone against a team with invoker + lion while behind, it should be am - being shut down by their position 4 lion 5 levels below me is pretty frustrating.
its super frustrating, especially when you're not in a 5 stack.
in that scenario (lion +1 or 2), your team needs to take an objective while you quite literally create space for them to do so. if they travel as 4 and get caught by the enemy team, you're clear to push the other towers on the opposite side of the map or attempt to take roshan. that's the only play in a game like that.
You can always use the manta illusion(s) to scout to make your split pushing safer.
Wards shouldn't really apply, but aren't a bad idea; I mean if you're really ahead and your team is relying on you to carry you are probably going to have 6 slots of important items, but maybe not and then that's fine.
Otherwise a lot goes into the items specifically. Yeah being caught with BKB down is a problem, but if you're plenty farmed you should be able to pop someone at least and you can always blink+bkb, try to pop someone, blink out as BKB goes down and try to reset the situation (or come back in for the big mana void when you can). It doesn't have to be the lion specifically that you target first. Abyssal is maybe not the right item for that situation though? Something like a heart or butterfly may have given you a lot more flexibility where even if you get disabled you may survive. Heart would have probably let you split push and still escape even if Lion jumped you (or just split push better with manta illusions).
Going straight BKB -> Abyssal seems like a win more move from what I've seen. I've seen it done a lot, but typically for games where the AM is steamrolling the opposition and the Abyssal closes things out (specifically shuts down an enemy carry). It seems like most BKB -> Abyssal games are ones on the shorter end and you could argue that getting abyssal makes the game shorter, but I think it's more that you get abyssal when you're looking to end a game where you have a big advantage already.
Otherwise I think Abyssal works better where either you already have something like butterfly/heart/AC (basher -> AC -> Abyssal seems popular too) or you are in a situation where you can rely on your team to soak up a lot of the enemy's attention thereby letting the offensive slant of Abyssal shine. I'm thinking maybe your itemization choice made a hard situation even worse where as butterfly/heart (or even basher + AC) may have let you really handle the enemy team better.
Otherwise in teamfights just don't worry about the Lion with a ghost scepter if you have a BKB. Delete as many of the other heroes as you can and see what happens. Your team, even if they're behind can handle a lion and lion's disables are meaningless if his allies are dead.
heres a simple tip that all players should know when split pushing. while you are pushing your lane, if you ever feel unsafe, clear the creeps that have immediate vision of you and then go wait in the nearby trees and just stand there. this is 1000% more effective than running back to your jungle, base, tping somewhere else etc. you will lose 30 seconds max of farming time but you guarantee not only your safety and information on where the opponent is (because they will inevitably show themselves somewhere on the map), but in cases where the main threats appear elsewhere on the map, you are immediately in a position to get right back into the lane and start from where you left off. this is how you split push; not mindlessly push creeps until a certain point in the lane and then be like "i think this should be enough, ill go somewhere else" or "i wonder where they are? oh 3 guys just jumped me now im dead".
as i said already in my post, i took into consideration the gank threat and teamfight disable threat lion has. either way, a support lion should never be able to give am that much grief. even with blink there is no way a lion can keep up with am's movement across the map and even if he does, if the am plays smart, it will take a massive investment from the enemy to catch am out. if you rinse and repeat this then its only a matter of time before your farm becomes too much for a single lion to shut you down in a teamfight.
On April 12 2016 04:25 BluemoonSC wrote: in my opinion, he is fantastic right now. there are 2 really popular int heroes right now, invoker and OD which can be wrecked by your manta + abyssal + mana void combo. but the problem is always getting to those items. both heroes are incredibly mid-game oriented and your spell shield will not help you versus the OD's pure dmg orb. if your other 4 heroes can handle a lot of pressure being caused by the enemy team AND you can get your bfury up without losing a ton of towers/your team feeding these heroes, antimage can do really really well.
Just because they are int heroes doesn't mean that AM destroys them. Invoker can screw AM really hard with cold snap whole game long and later he can even solo AM with his combos. AM has advantage once he gets abyssal but that's way too late, if enemy team is capable they will push way before that. OD is even harder to deal with. I'm not sure where this idea that AM can counter OD comes from but it's just not true. OD has pure dmg to go through AM magic resistance and his passive allows him and his team to constantly have high mana so AM ult doesnt mean anything. It looks nice in theory to see how big OD mana pool is and imagine how nice would it be to mana void it, but that mana pool will always be on 100% so it's not an option. AM is pretty bad right now, not complete shit tier but nowhere near 50%
OD and all his allies usually stay at full mana thx to his aura good invokers will steal mana with EMP making them hard to mana void u need a bkb+abyssal+manta to start killing them... its too much also safelaners and offlaners this patch are generally good vs am
On April 13 2016 02:07 Comeh wrote: The only am games I win these days (I only pick it in party games) I end up having to drop boots have a rapier + a backup rapier in 70+ min games.
hero is hard to win with.
I can see this being the issue. personally, at my level, I can force the enemy team to make a mistake and have one or two people TP while the rest run back and find a pick to victory..but ive played some hard ass games with the hero and thinking about it, I have been able to win on the back of some mistakes and lack of communication.
that being said, I did mention the item requirements to actually be able to do work on the hero against the meta players so my advice wasn't totally incorrect :O
The new Abyssal Blade seems good on AM. Tried a game where I went Treads, BF into Vanguard instead of Vlads, then Manta. Survivability during jungling felt as strong, although Treads-swapping is more important when blinking without Vlads. The hp and block from Vanguard really made a difference in a couple of necessary early fights, and it felt as if I could skip Heart for a while and either complete the Abyssal Blade or go for another damage item after Basher like Butterfly.
The potential for an earlier blink -> abyssal-manta -> blow up also looks really good. After all, the price of Vanguard being 2150 compared to Vlads' 2275 gold and the total price of Abyssal being reduced by 350 means that AM can get Abyssal Blade 2625 gold earlier. The best part is that rushing Abyssal before 6.87 would make AM seriously squishy, but Vanguard beefs up AM quite a lot. The trade-off is that Abyssal Blade has 60 less damage than before, but the ability to use the active almost twice as often seems worth it by far.
In short, it seems as if the new Abyssal Blade increases AM's early fighting potential by an order of magnitude. Rushing a Vanguard against really hard lanes is also a better choice now thanks to the increased regen of Vanguard (8 hp + 6 hp from BF's Ring of Health means 14 hp per second) and the usefulness of Vanguard when building Abyssal later, but that route is the inferior choice in an optimal game, of course.
i tried 4-1-1 treads vanguard oov into battlefury manta abyssal won a game with 25k gold / 30k xp disadvantage 7.5k avg oov works on manaburn since last patch now u can max it if ure going vanguard and contribute early its pretty strong
Not saying anything about the build, but that game was on bulldogs stream and they lost because they went derp and because of lineup. You had invo+tinker highground def and they only melee right clickers. Invo+Tinker pretty much held highground 2v5 for 60sec with you dead without BB because they could never hit buildings against their spam.
Considering vanguard changes the way AM plays at 15min but not at 50min (when u have the same items you would anyway), I dont see how the build had any impact at all that game.
On April 27 2016 22:42 Kreb wrote: Not saying anything about the build, but that game was on bulldogs stream and they lost because they went derp and because of lineup. You had invo+tinker highground def and they only melee right clickers. Invo+Tinker pretty much held highground 2v5 for 60sec with you dead without BB because they could never hit buildings against their spam.
Considering vanguard changes the way AM plays at 15min but not at 50min (when u have the same items you would anyway), I dont see how the build had any impact at all that game.
its all a butterfly effect. me tping to enemy safelane and getting triple kill delayed the game long enough for that to happen the first time beastmaster lost his big streak was coz his blink dagger got oov'd im sure we wud have lost much much earlier if these things didnt happen u cant have 3 heroes that need space that dont create space for each other so if tinker is busy farming up and pushing all lanes in and invoker jungling what does am do? its too hard to compare stuff like this coz the outcome is conditional on wut happened not the uncertainty of wut cud have happened
On April 28 2016 22:23 ChunderBoy wrote: played a game with vanguard into bfury everything went well finished both at min 14 aui called me a retard for suggesting it... but seems good
I will copy this build from now on and pretend i invented it !
On April 28 2016 22:23 ChunderBoy wrote: played a game with vanguard into bfury everything went well finished both at min 14 aui called me a retard for suggesting it... but seems good
finished both at 14 min? seems like you could have gone vanguard divine rapier and still won the game if your lane was that easy. or maybe you skipped boots entirely
played one game, the vanguard made me less susceptible to being bullied in lane and let me get involved in some early fights, without slowing down my farm
On April 28 2016 22:23 ChunderBoy wrote: played a game with vanguard into bfury everything went well finished both at min 14 aui called me a retard for suggesting it... but seems good
finished both at 14 min? seems like you could have gone vanguard divine rapier and still won the game if your lane was that easy. or maybe you skipped boots entirely
I played his build 2 times now and got vanguard+bf+treads+oov at around 15 mins both games, soo i guess its not that hard. once u finish vang u can freefarm anyway the only problem i felt was the lack of lifeleech and less manareg thx to no vlads but with proper tread switching its fine...
unless something has drastically changed since the last 2~3 patches, i remember bf+treads at 14-15mins being a good timing. if you happen to have another 2k gold in the same timeframe i can only imagine you were given a piss easy lane where you are allowed to practice last hitting for 15mins with no one bothering you, or you get some kills/towers somewhere. also im assuming the vanguard was gotten before the bfury, because if you rushed bfury theres really no point getting the vanguard unless you plan on rushing abyssal, since manta is still the best item choice after bfury.
On April 29 2016 19:47 evilfatsh1t wrote: unless something has drastically changed since the last 2~3 patches, i remember bf+treads at 14-15mins being a good timing. if you happen to have another 2k gold in the same timeframe i can only imagine you were given a piss easy lane where you are allowed to practice last hitting for 15mins with no one bothering you, or you get some kills/towers somewhere. also im assuming the vanguard was gotten before the bfury, because if you rushed bfury theres really no point getting the vanguard unless you plan on rushing abyssal, since manta is still the best item choice after bfury.
100% freefarm BF+threads+PMS should be finished at 12 minutes, and i've seen faster.
I think in a normal game, 16 minute threads+Vangaurd+BF is a good timing, but you won't get that every game. I think anything pre minute 18-20 it's still good. The vangaurd makes it so that you can TP to fights and get some good teamfights in. So in a way the vangaurd abyssal made AM more of an early game fighter, like spectre was with the haunt CD last patch.
Being able to constantly fight without slowinng down your farm because of vangaurd now building into abyssal is pretty good change for AM. Damage was never an issue for AM, you want abyssal to make sure you and your manta illusions can hit someone down to 0 mana to ult them, the damage loss from the abyssal isn't really that big.
freefarm treads+bfury is 11min the fastest........ vanguard allows u to tp to enemy safelane and invade it getting w.e kills u can + tower thus making the game easier for u ive convinced aui to do it and hes thinks its good now
On April 29 2016 19:47 evilfatsh1t wrote: unless something has drastically changed since the last 2~3 patches, i remember bf+treads at 14-15mins being a good timing. if you happen to have another 2k gold in the same timeframe i can only imagine you were given a piss easy lane where you are allowed to practice last hitting for 15mins with no one bothering you, or you get some kills/towers somewhere. also im assuming the vanguard was gotten before the bfury, because if you rushed bfury theres really no point getting the vanguard unless you plan on rushing abyssal, since manta is still the best item choice after bfury.
100% freefarm BF+threads+PMS should be finished at 12 minutes, and i've seen faster.
I think in a normal game, 16 minute threads+Vangaurd+BF is a good timing, but you won't get that every game. I think anything pre minute 18-20 it's still good. The vangaurd makes it so that you can TP to fights and get some good teamfights in. So in a way the vangaurd abyssal made AM more of an early game fighter, like spectre was with the haunt CD last patch.
Being able to constantly fight without slowinng down your farm because of vangaurd now building into abyssal is pretty good change for AM. Damage was never an issue for AM, you want abyssal to make sure you and your manta illusions can hit someone down to 0 mana to ult them, the damage loss from the abyssal isn't really that big.
i know what vanguard gives. im not disputing the legitimacy of the item build. i for one still believe the old vanguard manta build is still legit in certain games. i was questioning the difficulty of the lane if you are able to get that set of items at 14mins flat. as both of you have stated, yeah it requires complete freefarm to get bfury and treads at 11mins.
Seems like vanguard naturally replaces vlads for him perfectly since u only got that for infinite map sustain / rosh anyway. Bfury vlad manta was always the ideal build, you'd have to skip vlads of there was a silence threat or whatever. But vanguard gives you more sustainability in that window even compared to ult orb / manta build up
And I guess there's lots of little nice things like manta giving your illusions dmg block from vanguard etc etc
On April 30 2016 16:49 clickrush wrote: cool thing about vg is that you can go abyssal after manta and be useful before you have HoT.
You could not only still do that, it was generally the right thing to do. You just lost the split push pressure that the 70-100 damage gave, which hurts the item for AM quite a bit.
idk the buildpath with VG now seems to be smoother, safer, more flexible in terms of what he can do and which items/parts he builds first. I laned vs a bb some games ago and having 2 roh + stout was really really nice, manabreak was suddenly a great harass tool in lane.
The new abyssal is so good on am, the 35 second cd is amazing, often times u can get it off twice in team fights. It also means its always up after you pick someone off and than group to push for the following fight.
With vangaurd being apart of the new abyssal makes it worth picking up, if it wasnt part of ab its not worth stunting item progression for it. But atm it doesnt stunt item progression and allows for a new variation of playing am. Its definitely a really strong build atm.
Losing the damage from the old abyssal doesnt really matter for am, plus i've found with vanguard's hp and block being apart of the AB means u can skip heart and go butterfly.
It was almost always worth it to go vlads before for the hp sustain (and mana to some extent) but seeing how vanguard can fulfill the same purpose and is part of a really big core item makes it definitely the go to build.
antimage is like probably the only hero that benefited from abyssal change. the lower cooldown now matches with his manta cooldown, and he doesnt miss the loss of damage from abyssal because most of his dmg comes from illusions and manaburn
I was wondering why some players (miracle (9k mmr) for example) are skipping BF on AM entirely. Here are my thoughts:
In short: The BF buildup can slow down your farm and your team as a whole during the buildup. After the buildup it speeds up your farm but you still need a couple of minutes to get mileage out of it which definitely slows down your team.
1. You can extend your lane more with less information if you have an early VG. 2. You can sustain better and need less help with VG. 3. You can go for earlier objectives (roshan, towers, ganks), which strengthens your team as a whole. 4. You can also manfight a pressuring opponent earlier and better, which slows them down and speeds you up.
I didn't test this enough to factor in experience. But it seems like being a really viable option. Similar to spectre, who moved away from rushing radiance. Both heroes have some similarities in that regard, they do farm really well with their respective farming items (BF/Radiance) but they also scale better with entirely different items when it comes down to fighting. I wonder if this will stick and AM shifts more towards a fighting hero. Also his manaburn has a big impact when maxed out earlier instead of going for high stats (also similar to spectre with desolate). It basicly should come down to this balance: When your team can 4on5 then BF rush is really strong, but being a threat earlier would give your team even more tempo early on. And as a last thought I think BF is often an item on AM which is not slot efficient at some point.
Ppl went vanguard treads on am in games where they have to fight before all the buffs and basher changes. So now its perfectly logical for ppl to go vanguard before bf or skip it entirely in pubs since u can't ever rely on pub teammates to create space.
Thoughts on pt urn vanguard midgame oriented antimage with the new vanguard? just came up with the idea and wanted to test it out,later on pubs but not quite sure if it is worth a try yet. wanted to hear your thoughts before trying it out.
I don't see the urn much here. If I wanted a cheap damage item then I'd rather take medallion. It is one of the few items that increase your manaburn damage. But you fill up slots so fast on AM with the buildups for manta and basher so I wouldn't take that either.
I'm pretty sure Slahser advocated Urn in his way of playing Anti-Mage for mostly the same reasons as Spectre. If you plan on skipping Battle Fury (as Slahser suggests), I think it's viable. However, if you go back for a Battle Fury (as I see most Vanguard-building Anti-Mages doing lately: Treads>Vanguard>BF), you run out of slots very quickly, so you may easily end up selling your Urn before using it more than a handful of times.
urn was only good on spectre cuz he can reliably join fights from anywhere with haunt. also am naturally buys battlefury so he gets regen from that (and also vanguard)
So I am fairly new with AM, played 10-12 games with the hero.
Anyway have a few questions about how to survive the 10-25 min part of the game. Now my issue with the guides to AM is that they generally assume that the game is going “fine” and that your team plays in accordance with the power curve of the AM. This in my experience a big assumption! Particularly when I play in 2-3k mmr area when I play in party.
About AM, I am of the opinion that between min 10~25 you are almost useless team fights. Sure you can get a few hits in and if you are lucky to find a hero with a large amount of mana missing you can do decent damage with MV. Generally though you are not going to have a big impact, thus I am rather selective about the team fights I join around this time interval.
A typical scenario: I get BF at 13-14min mark, I farm until min ~19 and we have a ~3k net worth lead. Then the Spirit breaker in my team spots someone on the mini map and decided to charge deep into enemy territory and 2-3 guys dive after. However since a big part of our net worth is bound to the AM, but the AM cannot really fight effectively yet, they are more likely than not to lose that fight. Subsequently they lose that fight horribly and then we start losing towers, and by minute 23-24 we have a 5k deficit and they are pushing our high ground.
If this scenario happens I have two questions regarding this: 1: Do I understand the power curve of the AM correct? Or is there a way to carry a team fight at the 10-20 min mark with this hero?
2: If you find yourself in that situation at min 19 with treads, BF and ~2k gold, how do itemize in order to become effective in a team fight ASAP? Do you go SY+Crystalys? Desolator+echo? Basher + echo?
I understand that this is not the ideal scenario build. But to have treads, BF, manta and basher by min 23-24 when no one is stacking for you (cause no one ever is ^^) and the map is being pressured is a tall order.
On December 11 2017 22:08 4ZakeN87 wrote: So I am fairly new with AM, played 10-12 games with the hero.
Anyway have a few questions about how to survive the 10-25 min part of the game. Now my issue with the guides to AM is that they generally assume that the game is going “fine” and that your team plays in accordance with the power curve of the AM. This in my experience a big assumption! Particularly when I play in 2-3k mmr area when I play in party.
About AM, I am of the opinion that between min 10~25 you are almost useless team fights. Sure you can get a few hits in and if you are lucky to find a hero with a large amount of mana missing you can do decent damage with MV. Generally though you are not going to have a big impact, thus I am rather selective about the team fights I join around this time interval.
A typical scenario: I get BF at 13-14min mark, I farm until min ~19 and we have a ~3k net worth lead. Then the Spirit breaker in my team spots someone on the mini map and decided to charge deep into enemy territory and 2-3 guys dive after. However since a big part of our net worth is bound to the AM, but the AM cannot really fight effectively yet, they are more likely than not to lose that fight. Subsequently they lose that fight horribly and then we start losing towers, and by minute 23-24 we have a 5k deficit and they are pushing our high ground.
If this scenario happens I have two questions regarding this: 1: Do I understand the power curve of the AM correct? Or is there a way to carry a team fight at the 10-20 min mark with this hero?
2: If you find yourself in that situation at min 19 with treads, BF and ~2k gold, how do itemize in order to become effective in a team fight ASAP? Do you go SY+Crystalys? Desolator+echo? Basher + echo?
I understand that this is not the ideal scenario build. But to have treads, BF, manta and basher by min 23-24 when no one is stacking for you (cause no one ever is ^^) and the map is being pressured is a tall order.
Anyway, thoughts about this?
unfortunately no, there are no magic items that make you any better at teamfighting than what would be your natural item progression (manta then abyssal). just focus on split pushing, even when your team does dumb things. you need at least a manta before you begin to fight. this doesn't include situations where a fight happens near a tower and you think you can TP in and make a difference with a mana void.
On December 11 2017 22:08 4ZakeN87 wrote: 2: If you find yourself in that situation at min 19 with treads, BF and ~2k gold, how do itemize in order to become effective in a team fight ASAP? Do you go SY+Crystalys? Desolator+echo? Basher + echo?
Yasha. Older builds used Vlad's partly for the armor aura, but that's out-of-meta today.
On December 11 2017 22:08 4ZakeN87 wrote: 2: If you find yourself in that situation at min 19 with treads, BF and ~2k gold, how do itemize in order to become effective in a team fight ASAP? Do you go SY+Crystalys? Desolator+echo? Basher + echo?
Tbh if you feel the need to help your team as an AM you should just split push, get the other team to hunt you around the map, making space. If they don't then you'll be hitting tier 2 towers and getting too hard to deal with. If you fight you'll be weak, as well as your team.
btw learning to make space as a carry and find farm in adverse conditions is mandatory.
Even before abyssal it's often the right play to join even or won fights when they are mostly over and clean up low HP heroes. At least if the lane wasn't abysmal and you are ahead in lvls compared to most heroes.
AM is not a midgame brawler and you usually loose a bit gpm when you do that, but if you net a bonus support kill or finish a low hp core you also keep your team's nw up so they can continue making space/hold the line.
Btw AM lives mostly in the opponents' safelane jungle.
so after quite a # of games as, against, and with the hero, i find the best things you can do around that time in the game involves being accessible but unkillable.
people love to gank an AM around this time because pushing power across the board is not high, AM will need help against ganks but the whole team cannot commit, (upon pressure) AM's sustain to keep farming is low, ultimates have high impact on use, and therefore heroes will still be spread out across the map to deal with lanes as they come, etc.
when you are moving your creeps down a lane this perhaps gets their best players to come make an attempt on you. you want them to TP in numbers or expend smokes, but obviously not to complete the kill at least without using a lot to do so. your team then learns without you needing to tell them, that their heroes can make moves on their own or spend the time in other ways like getting wards, levels and catching up with a lane.
you are right to be selective in the sense that you will get a lot more by farming in lanes and moving opponent heroes back to farm them. you should also not be so mindless as to hit creeps because that is your job. anyone can do that. you judge if their stronger heroes can overestimate and die, and who in the back line cannot maneuver and punish you for claiming a free bag of gold. you also judge where they have been, where they have wards (keeping in mind they must have at least 2 on the map at a time), how they can move, and how much it takes for them to make that move. if you're unsure or they're not doing anything, then you farm closer to their side of jungle until it becomes evident.
if you cannot farm faster due to your heroes toolkit and items, then that is because you didn't do enough. you must be ready to creep cut, for instance, the moment the wave appears between towers. if they get a secondary wave to tier 2, they will move to tier 3's, or roshan and subsequently force you back into a fight you cannot take. you're just there to waste their time while you get maximum farm out of it. you have glyph, shrines, towers, all that stuff to help buy bits of time when you need it. your hero can creep cut, has fast movement, can steal runes&bounties and catch solo heroes looking to grab them.
your opponent makes mistakes because they can't gauge the threat of your hero or how to deal with it, your team makes mistakes because they're out of moves but they need to make them. so you make the first and correct moves by leaving jungle farm to fall back on and helping your team get power-plays or at least even-chances.
farm unsafely by all metrics except your own, keep their heroes poor and give them nothing, or farm so quickly that they can no longer commit and kill you (yet they must).
On December 11 2017 22:08 4ZakeN87 wrote: 2: If you find yourself in that situation at min 19 with treads, BF and ~2k gold, how do itemize in order to become effective in a team fight ASAP? Do you go SY+Crystalys? Desolator+echo? Basher + echo?
Yasha. Older builds used Vlad's partly for the armor aura, but that's out-of-meta today.
Meh, you are missing the point of vlads if you were getting it to fight. It had several advantages to its competition and has reasons for it falling out of favor but is still very viable.
The main reason to get vlads is a farm accelerent. It opens up ancients and ancient stacks into your farming rotation. This was hurt a bit by careful movement/micro and shrines and also that regen items like clarity/salve can be used while farming.
vlads also helped you push a lot harder since your creeps do more damage and tank more tower hits. This was hurt a bit by the nerf to the armor aura but not that significantly.
Another huge benefit to the vlads it to punish other split push heroes. You can trade HP for mana when you have a vlads since a blink into the woods and 2-3 camps will usually bring you to full HP. So if the enemy has a Slark, Medusa, Spectre, etc. You can follow them around the map and manfight them and retreat without losing anything significant. This can greatly hurt enemies ability to split farm and is an excellent way to use AM to counter other split push/rat heroes.
I mentioned some reasons why it fell out of favor before but one of the bigger ones is that in previous patches there was a lot more fighting early. You didn't have the luxury to go for a vlads because you needed that combat efficiency of the full manta as fast as possible. Even though the vlads probably only delays it by 2 minutes that is still a very critical window you can be missing from.
Another reason is that the regen given by the vlads was mitigated by two other items. The first being the change to abyssal blade. Since abyssal went from relic/basher (super offensive item) to vanguard/basher/recipe it gained regen. Enough regen to offset any creep damage so a vlads would be redundant for that effect. They usually have different timings but generally an abyssal is coming right after a manta anyway so there is not really a great reason to the vlads in the interim unless its to punish aforementioned rat heroes.
The next item is a linkens. A lot of AM's prioritized safe play over DPS. Linkens is a sacrifice for a damage item but countered that by making AM significantly more survivable which allowed more aggressive split push. In certain games its viable to go battlefury right into Linkens at which point all your regen is covered by the battlefury/linkens. A vlads would be superfluous and would put your combat items back even further than they were already put back.
Even if the game doesn't call for an immediate bfury --> linkens many people still enjoy having that item due to the blink CD talent. Blink CD talent drastically increases the mana used by AM during constant blinking. This requires either clarity crowing or an additional item to increase mana regen to constantly support your blinks. Since linkens fits really well with aggressive pushing for AM it can be a natural transition for the item.
oh and last thing, since the last patch AM can lifesteal without a vlads. You could feasibly just get a morbid and later on turn it into a satanic for huge DPS and tank.
In the current meta vlads is still fine, it's just significantly more situational when it used to be a "90% of the time you need to get this item" type of thing. It's purpose on AM has just been fulfilled by other items and meta shifts as previously the only regen item you would get on AM would be a heart and a battlefury. Now linkens/abyssal two common routes can supplant vlads regen. That combined with the contested lanes and fighting meta that has existed for the last year (until 7.07 or w/e) heavily dissuaded vlads pickups.
Getting a quick vlads and travels can be a very good way to contest heroes like Spectre/NP/ETC who don't want to be at teamfights and prefer ratting.
great post, but i'd like to say that i feel that replacing the vlads in manta (the actual transition rather than the reasoning) came down to trends created by pro players and having it trickle down as most people were improving as players. you highlight many of the points that made it a comfortable item, but people also changed their ways when they saw what people were doing skipping straight to manta. arteezy talks about this many patches ago and mentions timing, but truly, minute 20 was a very important and abusable time for the game. people were still picking zeuses, medusas, slarks, storm spirit, you name it.
the item build changed during the same patch that vlads was a 90% item and vlads is now considered quite a noob item in hindsight because it slowed you down more than was necessary. i would say only the top players fully adopted, while most pros were still falling back on vlads as teams started playing gradually faster (and not just in the sense that they're playing pushing heroes).
the trend now, as it always has been, is to keep your opponent's relative farm low. but now teams are going out of their way to raise their chances, putting more resources into it and it has a more nuanced set of ideas behind it. this could have worked much more frequently before if players/coaching/captains realized it sooner, but instead we had very obvious late-game teams like EG, EHOME (at times), LGD, Alliance who almost always played for that stage in the game.
for the order between abyssal (basher) and butterfly, i still think butterfly almost always come before the basher even, but that's opinion.
On December 21 2017 01:04 nanaoei wrote: great post, but i'd like to say that i feel that replacing the vlads in manta (the actual transition rather than the reasoning) came down to trends created by pro players and having it trickle down as most people were improving as players. you highlight many of the points that made it a comfortable item, but people also changed their ways when they saw what people were doing skipping straight to manta. arteezy talks about this many patches ago and mentions timing, but truly, minute 20 was a very important and abusable time for the game. people were still picking zeuses, medusas, slarks, storm spirit, you name it.
the item build changed during the same patch that vlads was a 90% item and vlads is now considered quite a noob item in hindsight because it slowed you down more than was necessary. i would say only the top players fully adopted, while most pros were still falling back on vlads as teams started playing gradually faster (and not just in the sense that they're playing pushing heroes).
the trend now, as it always has been, is to keep your opponent's relative farm low. but now teams are going out of their way to raise their chances, putting more resources into it and it has a more nuanced set of ideas behind it. this could have worked much more frequently before if players/coaching/captains realized it sooner, but instead we had very obvious late-game teams like EG, EHOME (at times), LGD, Alliance who almost always played for that stage in the game.
for the order between abyssal (basher) and butterfly, i still think butterfly almost always come before the basher even, but that's opinion.
I think vlads slows down your manta but hits a similar timing for your 3rd big item. However I think we both agree pros couldn't justify slowing down a manta since typically manta is when AM is combat ready.
I think you decide on bfly or abyssal depending on your team and your goals. Bfly is better for teamfighting and split pushing (doing building damage). Basher/abyssal is better for split pushing (forcing larger rotations) and solo pickoffs.
The reason I explained vlads is because I think it's important to know why you do things and to not just do them blind. When I was new I didn't understand what were the conditions to pick up vlads on AM and it took me a while to find a good answer.
The main reason to get Vlads was so you can clear ancients and stay high hp while pushing sidelanes. If you didn't intend to fight with manta and didn't have a silence to dispell Vlads allowed to farm more aggressively and gave you some bonus stats at your fourth item.
But with the accelerated leveling and shrines Vlads isn't really necessary anymore to stay high hp, so it doesn't really accelerate your farm anymore. If you get hunted a lot you can send yourself a salve or get an additional RoH if it is a linkens game.
On December 25 2017 13:09 Archeon wrote: The main reason to get Vlads was so you can clear ancients and stay high hp while pushing sidelanes. If you didn't intend to fight with manta and didn't have a silence to dispell Vlads allowed to farm more aggressively and gave you some bonus stats at your fourth item.
But with the accelerated leveling and shrines Vlads isn't really necessary anymore to stay high hp, so it doesn't really accelerate your farm anymore. If you get hunted a lot you can send yourself a salve or get an additional RoH if it is a linkens game.
The item had way more possibilities than just that.
RoH also builds into a vanguard. It doesn't need to be a linkens game.