EPTOn January 28 2008 09:37 PobTheCad wrote:
This Chinese funded war in Afghanistan/Iraq will be the final nail in the USA.
Farewell!
This Chinese funded war in Afghanistan/Iraq will be the final nail in the USA.
Farewell!
I think that you overreact
2008 US Presidential Election - Page 9
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
I think that you overreact | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Empyrean
17083 Posts
I'd rather have Clinton, though :D | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On January 28 2008 09:37 PobTheCad wrote: I think you'll find most empires collapsed due to an overstretched military and large budget deficits. USSR , Rome (started debasing currency with lead , hired mercenaries) , British Empire. Wars bankrupt nations - the war in Afghanistan bankrupted the USSR. The Vietnam war bankrupted the USA - they had to ditch the gold standard and print money with no backing. This Chinese funded war in Afghanistan/Iraq will be the final nail in the USA. Farewell! I agree in principle that deficits are a problem and military spending is way, way overboard, but could someone check these facts? Interesting if accurate. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
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baal
10708 Posts
On January 28 2008 04:16 Xeris wrote: Immediate withdrawl of troops in Iraq is a lie, I don't know what you or anyone thinks but the President doesn't have some magical authority to wave his power-wand and *poof* ... troops gone from Iraq. It will take several months at the minimum, and probably closer to a year for all troops to be taken out of Iraq, no matter who is elected to office. i dont think anyone expect them to be gone in a day "immediate withdrawal of troops" means that in ur first day as president u order the withdrawal from Iraq | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32165 Posts
But yeah, Russia definitely was a matter of HUGE spending on military. Wasnt rome more about politics (wasnt it split into east and west at the time of its collapse?) and the thinning of its army, not a deficit? | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On January 28 2008 23:45 NovaTheFeared wrote: The Iraq war is costing only about 1% of our 14 trillion dollar GDP per year. If anything is stretching our budget it's the entitlement programs: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid have unfunded liability in the trillions and no politician will dare to make changes to these that would help solvency. Do you have a source? I'm pretty sure that I've seen the military budget is our largest expense by a very, very large margin. | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On January 28 2008 23:46 baal wrote: i dont think anyone expect them to be gone in a day "immediate withdrawal of troops" means that in ur first day as president u order the withdrawal from Iraq In that case Obama would be immediate withdrawing. His plan would start immediately and completely be out in 16 months. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
This site: Link seems to think both Social Security and Health and Human Services department get more of the federal budget than the DoD. My concern is clearly entitlement spending and not defense spending. Defense spending can be curtailed fairly easily and will never rise above a certain % of GDP. Entitlement spending is nearly unbounded losses that will swamp the budget. | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On January 28 2008 23:55 NovaTheFeared wrote: The entire military, including defense department and homeland security etc is clearly more of the budget. I'm talking about funding just for the war in Iraq. The continuing costs in the yearly bills are around 100-200 billion. This site: Link says we've spent around 500 billion dollars on the Iraq war and I think you can confirm that's about right elsewhere. This site: Link seems to think both Social Security and Health and Human Services department get more of the federal budget than the DoD. Then isn't the military the biggest budget problem? :o We don't need to outspend the rest of the world by so much. Although, part of it is we spend ultra wastefully. We overuse pricey private contractors and have tons of maintenance on things we don't really need, like nukes we could never have a need for, or our great number of overseas military bases. 500 billion for Iraq sounds right, but there will be at least 100k crippled soldiers (there is about 70k right now) who will need compensation their entire lives, that is what puts the costs in the trillions for Iraq. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
We already can't pay for Social Security and Medicare and they want to add an expense that will dwarf current military spending. Even if the initial programs offered are more modest, it's quite obvious to me that they will grow far beyond the imagination. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On January 28 2008 23:45 NovaTheFeared wrote: The Iraq war is costing only about 1% of our 14 trillion dollar GDP per year. If anything is stretching our budget it's the entitlement programs: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid have unfunded liability in the trillions and no politician will dare to make changes to these that would help solvency. I guess that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are more important than an "illlegal", useless and unsuccessful war. Btw even 1% of a 14 trillion GDP is huge. On January 28 2008 23:55 NovaTheFeared wrote: My concern is clearly entitlement spending and not defense spending. Defense spending can be curtailed fairly easily and will never rise above a certain % of GDP. Entitlement spending is nearly unbounded losses that will swamp the budget. That is why US army spend so much money for programs such as Comanche, F-22, F-35 and so on... They seem to not understand that world and threats have changed. What can a stealth fighter do against terrorism ? Nevertheless i think that this kind of programs are very important for US technological lead over other countries but there is no need to buy that many planes for example so imo the next US president should reduce ASAP the defense spending. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
I'm a rare bird like Paul I guess. Small government fiscal conservative, but socially libertarian. | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On January 29 2008 00:09 NovaTheFeared wrote: Entitlement spending, as I said, is practically unbounded. This is the main reason I'm not supporting any of the Democrats for president. First and foremost on the domestic agenda is the biggest entitlement program of all: universal health care. Recent history shows the Democrats are the party of fiscal responsibility. That is relative, but accurate. I'm not sure that you are right about entitlements being unbounded. Your take on social security is something that is disputed. Some people believe that there is no social security crisis. Personally, I have no clue =p. (Have to admit I'm far too lazy to check it out right now). Assuming you're correct, I somewhat agree with you. I'm not fond of the idea that the social security payments I make are going to be sucked up by baby-boomers who are living past their welcome!  Plus, it is disproportionate to all other forms of welfare, and it is directed at a group that will give nothing back to society. But I should stop here, I know nothing about it and haven't thought it all out... | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On January 29 2008 05:48 BlackJack wrote: 1% of GDP = over 50% of 2008 projected Budget Deficit Yea that is quite a lot | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Its become popular for news sites and channels to make the claim "obama got 80% of the black vote, and most of the white vote went against him" What? Thats the worst spin job Ive heard in a while. Most of the white vote went against hillary as well. amongst young non-black voters, obama was up by 25% amongst white voters in general, obama was only behind clinton by about 6 points. that 6% has been spun to make it seem that obama was only really supported by blacks is disgusting. | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
 On the other hand, those tactics have been noticed, maybe they will backfire. It already got Obama Kennedy, which has brought attention to it. | ||
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MenzieK
United States123 Posts
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