EPTHolocaust worse than previously thought - Page 9
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Confuse
2238 Posts
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mRpolite
189 Posts
did you know that british "work camps" in india had worse living condition than nazi camps? did you know how systematic was the purge of the indians in the us? or how the conquistadors not only burned south american holy grounds but they built bullshit churches on top so that the spiritual possession could never be returned to the spiritual owners? did you know that african slavery was going on for 500 years? <sarcasm> but no, hitler is the devil... | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:47 Confuse wrote: Unreal that they can discover new things about this huge event in history o _ O sad to hear of course, I wonder what else history had wrong? sigh I wish we could uncover good things instead of sad ones. The thing with the Holocaust is that it was so massive in scope and so brutal that a lot of people didn't want to look, at all - as evidenced (at least somewhat) by those who actively deny that the Holocaust ever happened (as told by history teachers). Most likely, what history says about genocides is usually incorrect; because it'll be in those responsible's best interests to hide as much about the event as possible. On March 04 2013 00:51 mRpolite wrote: meh. just another western bullshit tactic to cover up how worse they were than hitler, actually did you know that british "work camps" in india had worse living condition than nazi camps? did you know how systematic was the purge of the indians in the us? or how the conquistadors not only burned south american holy grounds but they built bullshit churches on top so that the spiritual possession could never be returned to the spiritual owners? did you know that african slavery was going on for 500 years? but no, hitler is the devil... So, what you're saying is that because "the westerners" were bad, we cannot bring light to someone else who was also bad? | ||
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:51 mRpolite wrote: meh. just another western bullshit tactic to cover up how worse they were than hitler, actually did you know that british "work camps" in india had worse living condition than nazi camps? did you know how systematic was the purge of the indians in the us? or how the conquistadors not only burned south american holy grounds but they built bullshit churches on top so that the spiritual possession could never be returned to the spiritual owners? did you know that african slavery was going on for 500 years? <sarcasm> but no, hitler is the devil... There's an interesting comment made by a Dutch guy (historian? journalist? can't remember) who said that the Dutch try to keep their idealized version of WW2 memory ("evil Germans!") alive (lots of shit about it on TV and in cinemas) to make everyone forget that the Dutch weren't much better. Many Dutch people helped the Germans, that's a memory they want to erase from the collective (un)conscious. On March 03 2013 19:54 Liquid`Drone wrote: there might be one or two criminals of the nazi regime who are still not found, still alive, and still not punished. I don't think moving heaven and earth to track down those 95+ year olds is really smart prioritizing though. still interesting in an age where holocaust denial is on the rise ;( It's not about justice, it's about vengeance, silly. | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:51 mRpolite wrote: meh. just another western bullshit tactic to cover up how worse they were than hitler, actually did you know that british "work camps" in india had worse living condition than nazi camps? did you know how systematic was the purge of the indians in the us? or how the conquistadors not only burned south american holy grounds but they built bullshit churches on top so that the spiritual possession could never be returned to the spiritual owners? did you know that african slavery was going on for 500 years? <sarcasm> but no, hitler is the devil... Any evidence of anything you just said (for instance the indian camps being worse then nazi concentration camps). The quick answer is, likely not, but im interested. Also burning holy grounds to build churches =/= exterminating millions of people based on ethnic origin. Please do, however, keep spewing bullshit and calling it a plausible theory of events. ALSO (edit) No one said slavery wasn't equally as terrible or worse, this is arguing apples and oranges, can't both things be horrific? One is just a bit more easily recognizable because its 30 years 6 million (looks like more) people where slavery was drawn out and, while horrendously cruel, it was around for thousands of years and wasn't so abrupt in our minds. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
Previously: The holocaust was horrific Now: The holocaust is still horrific As others have said, nothing's really been changed except numbers. Sure, you can discuss current Neo-Nazi issues, but that's not really related to the news this thread brings forth. | ||
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Mephiztopheles1
1124 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:51 mRpolite wrote: meh. just another western bullshit tactic to cover up how worse they were than hitler, actually did you know that british "work camps" in india had worse living condition than nazi camps? did you know how systematic was the purge of the indians in the us? or how the conquistadors not only burned south american holy grounds but they built bullshit churches on top so that the spiritual possession could never be returned to the spiritual owners? did you know that african slavery was going on for 500 years? <sarcasm> but no, hitler is the devil... Just sayin' but... I do, but India has not been protected by the U.S and European superpowers for the last 60 years. Yes, but we got Starbucks now! And after the countries got independence, the U.S and european countries offered them extremely shitty deals to 'rebuild' after their struggles where what really was accomplished was an inequality that has been increasing ever since. Yes However, that does not mean Hitler's and the Nazi german movement was not a horrible event and it should not be understood. The problem(I hope) you are trying to point out is not one of making hierarchies of crimes against humanity but rather of representation and recognition of them. The spanish crown has not apologised and will most likely never will for their crimes against America's indigenous peoples. Great Britain has not... you get the drill. The politics of representation deem some crimes more representable than others. Get into alternative media or politics if you wish to do something about it! :D | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:47 Confuse wrote: Unreal that they can discover new things about this huge event in history o _ O sad to hear of course, I wonder what else history had wrong? sigh I wish we could uncover good things instead of sad ones. It's not discovering new things, it's quantifying already known things. Survivors have already said (and it's quoted in the article) that they were moved from various different camps to other camps and ghettos. This is just saying how many there were, and where they were, and includes tiny ones with as few as 10 people, which it wouldn't surprise me to find out would make up most of the increase (personal slaves, rather than "camps"). "30,000 slave labor camps" "But as few as a dozen prisoners worked at one of the smallest camps, the München-Schwabing site in Germany. Small groups of prisoners were sent there from the Dachau concentration camp under armed guard. They were reportedly whipped and ordered to do manual labor at the home of a fervent Nazi patron known as “Sister Pia,” cleaning her house, tending her garden and even building children’s toys for her. " It doesn't make it worse in a "what happened to the people involved" sense. It makes it worse in the "most people would have known what was going on because it was everywhere" sense, but then they probably knew what was going on anyway. Would be interesting to find out why they thought there would only be 7,000 sites though, given that based on Google, other people 10+ years ago were already throwing around 15,000 as a figure. | ||
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mRpolite
189 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:55 Hitch-22 wrote: Any evidence of anything you just said (for instance the indian camps being worse then nazi concentration camps). The quick answer is, likely not, but im interested. yes. there is. i'll give you a couple of links later today | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
1. Nothing wrong in examining old data and making sure we get everything right. There is no point in arguing "why don't they work on this genocide instead?". I'm sure there's other historians that work with those as well. 2. We should care about the whole human history, especially the gruesome parts of it to remember what we as "intelligent" human beings are capable of and learn from the past. 3. Thanks for posting this interesting piece of information. The more we know about these things, the better we should beware of letting such things happen again. May the dead rest in peace and may we respect them by learning from the past. | ||
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Eisregen
Germany967 Posts
There is a lot of shit going on at the present, there was a lot lot more shit going on throughout history. If you paint all the events down as circles onto a map. The radius is the amount of people being killed and the "brightness" it shines with states the amount of attention it recieves. there is pretty much one event which outshines anything: 1933-45. No matter how many people were killed in any other conflict/genocide, people will pay attention to the years of 1933-45. I am nowhere near the right flank of the political system, but I somehow have the feeling that a lot of ppl have the desire to keep the brightness of this event as high as possible as they seem to gain something of it. May it be a tool to pressure germany or to gain financial benefit. I seriously dont feel responsible, I seriously dont believe those years should ever be forgotten, but I cant stand the constant "you are guilty" attitude of many ppl anymore and it annoys me. Edit: I dont want to say, look at other stuff instead, I want to express, look at other stuff ALSO. Some events thorughout history may be worth enough to be looked into and to be reflected on. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:16 Noonius wrote: is it wrong of me not to actually care? And I really don't care about something that happened odd 70 years ago. Mainly because it's constantly being brought up, probably just to freshen our memories and milk it for the guilt. No one really talks about the purges of Stalin to the same extent and the millions who died in gulags. Hell, my grandparents were sent to a gulag Eddie says it in quite the humourous way. I think because of the way it was done. A lot of the things Hitler did were things other western nations did aswell you know? Industry, socialism, modernizing society, and even his unorthodox rise through politics made it strike a lot closer to home when things went avry. Whereas Russia was trying this new thing called communism so naturally this kind of murdering would be expected. It's not that we don't care its just that we can't really relate to it in the same way we do Germany. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On March 04 2013 01:07 Lonyo wrote: It's not discovering new things, it's quantifying already known things. Survivors have already said (and it's quoted in the article) that they were moved from various different camps to other camps and ghettos. This is just saying how many there were, and where they were, and includes tiny ones with as few as 10 people, which it wouldn't surprise me to find out would make up most of the increase (personal slaves, rather than "camps"). "30,000 slave labor camps" "But as few as a dozen prisoners worked at one of the smallest camps, the München-Schwabing site in Germany. Small groups of prisoners were sent there from the Dachau concentration camp under armed guard. They were reportedly whipped and ordered to do manual labor at the home of a fervent Nazi patron known as “Sister Pia,” cleaning her house, tending her garden and even building children’s toys for her. " It doesn't make it worse in a "what happened to the people involved" sense. It makes it worse in the "most people would have known what was going on because it was everywhere" sense, but then they probably knew what was going on anyway. Would be interesting to find out why they thought there would only be 7,000 sites though, given that based on Google, other people 10+ years ago were already throwing around 15,000 as a figure. Exactly. This research doesn't add anything to the "Holocaust Bad." narrative. I'm personally sick of the inordinate amount of guilt that gets piled on over the Holocaust, even today. No one alive (nearly no one) committed, or had a crime committed against them. Let it go. Remember the history, leave the emotions in the dust. | ||
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mRpolite
189 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:55 Dagobert wrote: There's an interesting comment made by a Dutch guy (historian? journalist? can't remember) who said that the Dutch try to keep their idealized version of WW2 memory ("evil Germans!") alive (lots of shit about it on TV and in cinemas) to make everyone forget that the Dutch weren't much better. Many Dutch people helped the Germans, that's a memory they want to erase from the collective (un)conscious. that is what i am talking about. it is just some more propaganda. nothing else. i even saw a "new" documentary (it wasn't new it was just digitally coloured and it got a new narration) where the russian world war 2 soldiers were depicted as cold blooded rapists and murderers. what? and not a single mention that russians had more casualties in the war then the rest of the world combined writing history for the sake of characterising today's policies and future plans pisses me off. it is low | ||
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karpotoss
135 Posts
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor] Great leap forward with 18 - 45 milion people dead [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward[/url] Or just mass indian genocide on american land. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On March 04 2013 01:19 karpotoss wrote: Thing is that despite what most people think holocaust wasn't the biggest genocide in human history, it's just the most known thanks to polital correctness and best documentation. Nazis and Hitler are like the archetypes of all evil, but how about Holodomor which brought 10 milion people dead of famine? Great leap forward with 18 - 45 milion people dead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward Or just mass indian genocide on american land. I think that most people know that the holocaust was not the biggest genocide. What's worse is ranking genocides based on statistics... | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
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quaZa
Germany58 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
On March 03 2013 20:03 Cynry wrote: I don't understand that. Holocaust denial ? People consciously argue that this never happened ? And more and more of them ? I don't even see a point in that, are they defending the nazis or something ? What would they gain if (science fiction here) the holocaust would be recognized as a lie ? I have no idea. Maybe to sympathize with the Hitler-Regime or something? There are still idiots in this world thinking Hitler would have done mostly good things. Ah i think Ahmadinedschad was spitting hate against Israel while saying the Holocaust was never really done against them so all of them should shut up. I think that's about it what he said, not entirely sure though. | ||
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