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On July 28 2016 00:56 TheDougler wrote:
Hey by the way, how do most Americans feel about NAFTA?
Rapidly worse.
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On July 28 2016 00:24 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:19 xDaunt wrote:
Heh, Trump is going to make a play for the youth vote with a new student debt relief plan (or some kind of plan targeted at reducing tuition). Which I'm sure will play well with the hard workin', uneducated white males that make up a large portion of his constituency!
I think you severely underestimate his constituency's diversity at the moment. He will get votes that no other republican can get, and on top of that people will be voting for him silently. A lot of people don't advertise their support for trump out of fear in their liberal environments. With facebook widely searched by employers, I suspect many just don't say anything. No one wants to be branded as a misogynist, xenophobe or bigot by the left. Even close friends when I casually state that I'l be voting red this November, the reaction is very telling. It is a combination of the age group and location but again, I imagine young trump supporters are very much quiet about the whole thing because it can have very real consequences.
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On July 28 2016 00:48 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:43 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:34 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. It's just Democrat politicians deflecting so nobody reads into whats actually in the emails. The main story is corruption within the Democratic party not wild speculation about who took the picture so to speak. By took the picture, you mean illegally broke into private servers to steal data and personal information which they released on to the web. Including the social security numbers and home addresses of people who donated to the DNC, some of them very middle class. So yeah, they found some stuff in the DNC and that problem will be handled. But let’s not pretend the people who broke in are saints or working in the US’s best interest. You forgot to add evidence of widespread corruption. You're politicians being corrupt is the fault of no other country, instead of using this to weed out the bad apples you are empowering and defending election fixers, bribe takers and, in general, sleazy people. 235 days since Clinton's last press conference in case you missed it.
wide spread corruption and political maneuvering are problems in US, just not as big problem as in most of the word. and it is rather ironic that you are the one who makes this point.
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On July 28 2016 00:54 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:51 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:48 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:43 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:34 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. It's just Democrat politicians deflecting so nobody reads into whats actually in the emails. The main story is corruption within the Democratic party not wild speculation about who took the picture so to speak. By took the picture, you mean illegally broke into private servers to steal data and personal information which they released on to the web. Including the social security numbers and home addresses of people who donated to the DNC, some of them very middle class. So yeah, they found some stuff in the DNC and that problem will be handled. But let’s not pretend the people who broke in are saints or working in the US’s best interest. You forgot to add evidence of widespread corruption. You're politicians being corrupt is the fault of no other country, instead of using this to weed out the bad apples you are empowering and defending election fixers, bribe takers and, in general, sleazy people. 235 days since Clinton's last press conference in case you missed it. I’ve seen wide spread corruption dealing with Rhode Island real estate. It’s their main export. I was not impressed at all by the wrong doing in the DNC hack. I have seen far worse and that stuff was pretty tame. Not acceptable, but nothing that is going to make me thank whoever hacked the DNC. Of cource you and other Clinton zealots won't see a problem with it but the huge jump in poll numbers says otherwise. Wikileaks says the really juicy stuff is coming in the next few dumps.
Considering Trump just said he won’t commit to defending Baltic nations against Russian aggression per our NATO agreement, I bet they have more. Its almost amazing this is even a thing, but then I remember what a disaster the GOP is.
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On July 28 2016 00:55 xDaunt wrote:
LA Times / USC now has Trump at +7 in case anyone missed it.
FiveThirtyEight also shows the bump, but still hasn’t changed their model reflecting trends post convention.
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On July 28 2016 00:43 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. Again, does the content of what was produced not matter? Let's not pretend that foreign countries have never tried to influence elections. Everyone does it, whether it be through simple press conferences or through an email dump or through even more nefarious means. And do you know who has been noticeably silent on the matter? President Obama. The only people talking about it are DNC and leftist media hacks. If this is such a breach of national sovereignty and such a big deal, the real people in charge of defending us certainly don't seem to give a shit.
Obama said it's possible Russia did it. According to the NYT,
"American intelligence agencies have told the White House they now have “high confidence” that the Russian government was behind the theft of emails and documents from the Democratic National Committee, according to federal officials who have been briefed on the evidence."
CrowdStrike, the group that expelled the hackers from the DNC systems, has said the same. I don't think all these people would be lying for the benefit of the DNC.
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On July 28 2016 00:43 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. And do you know who has been noticeably silent on the matter? President Obama. The only people talking about it are DNC and leftist media hacks. If this is such a breach of national sovereignty and such a big deal, the real people in charge of defending us certainly don't seem to give a shit.
My understanding is that making official accusations are a really big deal and that we are still putting our case together. I would not want Obama to be commenting on the issue a few days early if he could make a much more confident, definitive accusation.
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On July 28 2016 00:43 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. Again, does the content of what was produced not matter? Let's not pretend that foreign countries have never tried to influence elections. Everyone does it, whether it be through simple press conferences or through an email dump or through even more nefarious means. And do you know who has been noticeably silent on the matter? President Obama. The only people talking about it are DNC and leftist media hacks. If this is such a breach of national sovereignty and such a big deal, the real people in charge of defending us certainly don't seem to give a shit.
Both matter. The content matters just now (and mostly only for this election from what I saw) the reaction to the act itself matters more in the long run. I expect more of a reaction to come after the convention but it's a delicate issue. Measures could and will be interpreted as only political (with regards to this election) maneuvering.
And yes the US does also shady shit in other countries but it is a serious sign of weakness (caused by serious disunity) if the US lets this slide so easily. Usually it defends its interests more forcefully and yes this is a double standard. I see neither Russia nor the US as a force of good in the world but a weak US played by Putin is certainly one of the worse scenarios in my head.
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Did Trump ask Russia to find the missing emails to help him with the election? Publicly. What is real any more?
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On July 28 2016 01:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:55 xDaunt wrote:
LA Times / USC now has Trump at +7 in case anyone missed it. FiveThirtyEight also shows the bump, but still hasn’t changed their model reflecting trends post convention.
Next week's polls are going to be very interesting. We're going to see the effect of the confluence of Trump's post convention bounce, Hillary's convention bounce (if any), and the effect (if any) from the DNC email mess.
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On July 28 2016 00:56 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:56 TheDougler wrote:
Hey by the way, how do most Americans feel about NAFTA? Rapidly worse.
Murica has too much feeling and not enough data. I've yet to find anything that offers a somewhat clear picture (probably doesn't exist given the complexity of the problem). I know there are a lot of industries severely hurt by it, but many industries were also helped by it, and it isn't unreasonable to say it helps consumers somewhat. The thing with flooding US market with cheap goods is that... goods are cheaper. Also there is the problem of the ones who are dissatisfied are usually loudest screamers.
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On July 28 2016 01:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 01:00 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:55 xDaunt wrote:
LA Times / USC now has Trump at +7 in case anyone missed it. FiveThirtyEight also shows the bump, but still hasn’t changed their model reflecting trends post convention. Next week's polls are going to be very interesting. We're going to see the effect of the confluence of Trump's post convention bounce, Hillary's convention bounce (if any), and the effect (if any) from the DNC email mess.
Trump seems to be creating his own amazing email mess right now. We will see how it plays out, but I think the historical trend is like 3 weeks for polls to stabilize.
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On July 28 2016 00:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:54 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:51 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:48 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:43 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:34 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. It's just Democrat politicians deflecting so nobody reads into whats actually in the emails. The main story is corruption within the Democratic party not wild speculation about who took the picture so to speak. By took the picture, you mean illegally broke into private servers to steal data and personal information which they released on to the web. Including the social security numbers and home addresses of people who donated to the DNC, some of them very middle class. So yeah, they found some stuff in the DNC and that problem will be handled. But let’s not pretend the people who broke in are saints or working in the US’s best interest. You forgot to add evidence of widespread corruption. You're politicians being corrupt is the fault of no other country, instead of using this to weed out the bad apples you are empowering and defending election fixers, bribe takers and, in general, sleazy people. 235 days since Clinton's last press conference in case you missed it. I’ve seen wide spread corruption dealing with Rhode Island real estate. It’s their main export. I was not impressed at all by the wrong doing in the DNC hack. I have seen far worse and that stuff was pretty tame. Not acceptable, but nothing that is going to make me thank whoever hacked the DNC. Of cource you and other Clinton zealots won't see a problem with it but the huge jump in poll numbers says otherwise. Wikileaks says the really juicy stuff is coming in the next few dumps. Considering Trump just said he won’t commit to defending Baltic nations against Russian aggression per our NATO agreement, I bet they have more. Its almost amazing this is even a thing, but then I remember what a disaster the GOP is.
He did not say any such thing. He said every NATO country would have to pay what it signed up to pay, which Estonia is doing. Latvia and Lithuania only need to invest 1% more of their GDP, which I'm sure they will do.
Stop spreading misinformation.
On July 28 2016 01:02 Plansix wrote:
Did Trump ask Russia to find the missing emails to help him with the election? Publicly. What is real any more?
He said if Russia has the 33,000 emails Clinton deleted after she was subpoenaed America would be glad to have a look at them.
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This is what happens when Trump can't stand someone else being on the spotlight:
DORAL, Fla. — Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that he hoped Russia had hacked Hillary Clinton’s email, essentially sanctioning a foreign power’s cyberspying of a secretary of state’s correspondence.
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, staring directly into the cameras. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Source
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On July 28 2016 00:56 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:24 farvacola wrote:On July 28 2016 00:19 xDaunt wrote:
Heh, Trump is going to make a play for the youth vote with a new student debt relief plan (or some kind of plan targeted at reducing tuition). Which I'm sure will play well with the hard workin', uneducated white males that make up a large portion of his constituency! I think you severely underestimate his constituency's diversity at the moment. He will get votes that no other republican can get, and on top of that people will be voting for him silently. A lot of people don't advertise their support for trump out of fear in their liberal environments. With facebook widely searched by employers, I suspect many just don't say anything. No one wants to be branded as a misogynist, xenophobe or bigot by the left. Even close friends when I casually state that I'l be voting red this November, the reaction is very telling. It is a combination of the age group and location but again, I imagine young trump supporters are very much quiet about the whole thing because it can have very real consequences.
His constituency even includes a biology major
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On July 28 2016 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:This is what happens when Trump can't stand someone else being on the spotlight: Show nested quote +
DORAL, Fla. — Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that he hoped Russia had hacked Hillary Clinton’s email, essentially sanctioning a foreign power’s cyberspying of a secretary of state’s correspondence.
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, staring directly into the cameras. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Source
And just like that, he has hijacked the newscycle and deprived Hillary of some of the oxygen that she needs to get a convention bounce.
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On July 28 2016 01:05 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:58 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:54 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:51 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:48 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:43 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:34 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. It's just Democrat politicians deflecting so nobody reads into whats actually in the emails. The main story is corruption within the Democratic party not wild speculation about who took the picture so to speak. By took the picture, you mean illegally broke into private servers to steal data and personal information which they released on to the web. Including the social security numbers and home addresses of people who donated to the DNC, some of them very middle class. So yeah, they found some stuff in the DNC and that problem will be handled. But let’s not pretend the people who broke in are saints or working in the US’s best interest. You forgot to add evidence of widespread corruption. You're politicians being corrupt is the fault of no other country, instead of using this to weed out the bad apples you are empowering and defending election fixers, bribe takers and, in general, sleazy people. 235 days since Clinton's last press conference in case you missed it. I’ve seen wide spread corruption dealing with Rhode Island real estate. It’s their main export. I was not impressed at all by the wrong doing in the DNC hack. I have seen far worse and that stuff was pretty tame. Not acceptable, but nothing that is going to make me thank whoever hacked the DNC. Of cource you and other Clinton zealots won't see a problem with it but the huge jump in poll numbers says otherwise. Wikileaks says the really juicy stuff is coming in the next few dumps. Considering Trump just said he won’t commit to defending Baltic nations against Russian aggression per our NATO agreement, I bet they have more. Its almost amazing this is even a thing, but then I remember what a disaster the GOP is. He did not say any such thing. He said every NATO country would have to pay what it signed up to pay, which Estonia is doing. Latvia and Lithuania only need to invest 1% more of their GDP, which I'm sure they will do. Stop spreading misinformation.
when we're on that spreading misinformation topic, it's a recommendation, not a requirement
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On July 28 2016 01:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:This is what happens when Trump can't stand someone else being on the spotlight:
DORAL, Fla. — Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that he hoped Russia had hacked Hillary Clinton’s email, essentially sanctioning a foreign power’s cyberspying of a secretary of state’s correspondence.
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, staring directly into the cameras. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Source And just like that, he has hijacked the newscycle and deprived Hillary of some of the oxygen that she needs to get a convention bounce.
That's one way to look at it lol, it could also prove very dumb for Trump.
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On July 28 2016 01:10 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On July 28 2016 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:This is what happens when Trump can't stand someone else being on the spotlight:
DORAL, Fla. — Donald J. Trump said Wednesday that he hoped Russia had hacked Hillary Clinton’s email, essentially sanctioning a foreign power’s cyberspying of a secretary of state’s correspondence.
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, staring directly into the cameras. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Source And just like that, he has hijacked the newscycle and deprived Hillary of some of the oxygen that she needs to get a convention bounce. That's one way to look at it lol, it could also prove very dumb for Trump.
It could, but history strongly suggests otherwise. Teflon Don is a real thing. Can't stump the Trump!
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On July 28 2016 01:05 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 00:58 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:54 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:51 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:48 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:43 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 00:34 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 00:32 silynxer wrote:
A foreign power trying to influence national elections usually plays very poorly because of sovereignity issues but the divide between Republicans and Democrats has grown so much that it doesn't seem to matter. The implications should be worrisome because if this works, expect a lot more of it in the future (oh you want to take a tough stance against Russia, wouldn't it be a shame if someone hacked all your emails???). Even if it doesn't work this time if this is not shown to be counterproductive it will become more prevalent. It's just Democrat politicians deflecting so nobody reads into whats actually in the emails. The main story is corruption within the Democratic party not wild speculation about who took the picture so to speak. By took the picture, you mean illegally broke into private servers to steal data and personal information which they released on to the web. Including the social security numbers and home addresses of people who donated to the DNC, some of them very middle class. So yeah, they found some stuff in the DNC and that problem will be handled. But let’s not pretend the people who broke in are saints or working in the US’s best interest. You forgot to add evidence of widespread corruption. You're politicians being corrupt is the fault of no other country, instead of using this to weed out the bad apples you are empowering and defending election fixers, bribe takers and, in general, sleazy people. 235 days since Clinton's last press conference in case you missed it. I’ve seen wide spread corruption dealing with Rhode Island real estate. It’s their main export. I was not impressed at all by the wrong doing in the DNC hack. I have seen far worse and that stuff was pretty tame. Not acceptable, but nothing that is going to make me thank whoever hacked the DNC. Of cource you and other Clinton zealots won't see a problem with it but the huge jump in poll numbers says otherwise. Wikileaks says the really juicy stuff is coming in the next few dumps. Considering Trump just said he won’t commit to defending Baltic nations against Russian aggression per our NATO agreement, I bet they have more. Its almost amazing this is even a thing, but then I remember what a disaster the GOP is. He did not say any such thing. He said every NATO country would have to pay what it signed up to pay, which Estonia is doing. Latvia and Lithuania only need to invest 1% more of their GDP, which I'm sure they will do. Stop spreading misinformation. Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 01:02 Plansix wrote:
Did Trump ask Russia to find the missing emails to help him with the election? Publicly. What is real any more? He said if Russia has the 33,000 emails Clinton deleted after she was subpoenaed America would be glad to have a look at them.
Right, so he is trying to pull us out of NATO, despite being told exactly how NATO works. Those payments are not a requirement. And telling another nation to attack his political opponent for his gain. And refusing to release his taxes information, which likely contain Russian investment per what his son admitted a couple years ago.
This is like some Manchurian Candidate shit.
Edit: To be clear, I am not completely convinced, but there is no way reporters should leave it alone.
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EPT
