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On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist?
Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 27 2016 03:55 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:52 LegalLord wrote:On July 27 2016 03:37 Trainrunnef wrote:On July 27 2016 03:34 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:09 Introvert wrote:
If you get around the scaremongering, voter ID, as an idea, is very popular with all portions of the citizenry. Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Some people are literally too poor to receive a voter ID, and some legal immigrants don't have the appropriate documentation yet to receive one. Some people have changed their names and there are issues obtaining a voter ID, and some people just get too held up in absurdly redundant paperwork. I wouldn't say that those groups are "imbeciles". Arguing that there's a high percentage of minorities who are unable to come up with $20-40 to get a driver's license (or other ID) is tantamount to arguing that minorities have a high incidence of being retarded. Having an ID is an essential component of being a functioning member of society. Making excuses for people not to get one accomplishes little more than ensuring the perpetuation of their poor circumstances. But hey, democrat policy has never been about raising these people up, has it? All that matters are the votes, right? So when you are on food stamps and other assistance, which is likely if you are poor... just saying... and your choice is between 20 bucks for an ID or 20 bucks for cereal or clothes, which one would you pick? Granted this is an extreme example, but I would argue that the vast majority of people we are discussing as part of this topic qualify as extreme examples. Evidently finding $20 within four years is an impossible expense to be able to afford. It's not like it's merely 2.5 hours of minimum wage, or a very small fraction of a monthly unemployment check. On July 27 2016 03:50 Madkipz wrote:
Voter ID? Forgive me for being European, but does a drivers licence count? is it really that hard or expensive to get a-hold of a passport? We have "voter ID" in Norway too. It's to bloody well prove you are who you say you are, and to prevent people from impersonating someone else so they can vote twice. it's not because of racism. Both passports and driver's licenses are valid to prove identity (passports also prove "right to work" among other things). Also valid is a government-issued ID, which is like a driver's license but doesn't allow you to drive. That's incorrect, passports do not establish voter identity because they do not include an address, which is a prerequisite for registration identity in all 50 states. Accordingly, federal IDs are not a valid form of voter ID in any state.
Looked into specific laws across states, and I'd say that that's only partially true. Passports are valid for a fair number of states. ID rules by state.
A utility bill or paycheck also are valid as proof of identity. I guess that's an undue hardship as well.
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On July 27 2016 03:59 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:49 oBlade wrote:
Any kind of voter control would be better than what we have now. I'm not sure what kind of voter control you think we currently have, but it's not like illegals are running rampant in voting booths and people are regularly voting multiple times or stealing identities lol I'm not saying it happens often, but anything we could do to stop it would be a good idea. It's too easy for people to vote. Uneducated people keep voting for the wrong candidates.
Sadly, the constitution and bill of rights disagrees with you. And the founding fathers, all who feared the “mob”, but felt they should have the right to choose who leads them. For better or worse.
But its nice that you think only the privileged should be able to vote. Of course, that group includes you. Because these arguments always include the person making them.
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On July 27 2016 03:59 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:49 oBlade wrote:
Any kind of voter control would be better than what we have now. I'm not sure what kind of voter control you think we currently have, but it's not like illegals are running rampant in voting booths and people are regularly voting multiple times or stealing identities lol I'm not saying it happens often, but anything we could do to stop it would be a good idea. It's too easy for people to vote. Uneducated people keep voting for the wrong candidates.
it doesn't really happen much of ever. and most of those cases are mistakes; all actual voting fraud is done through other methods.
And your last points are just nonsense.
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On July 27 2016 03:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:54 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen. Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer. What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'. It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years. No, the original claim was that Donald Trump wants to stop same-day voting registration (which does limit voting rights). It had nothing to do with voter ID. In fact he doesn't even endorse requiring an ID particularly, just a method to stop non-citizens from voting. How does that limit voting rights? You have months/years between elections to register to vote. Because it denies people the right to vote for no reason? Requiring people register to vote before election day doesn't deny them the right to vote. That isn’t a reason. You need a reason to deny someone the ability to vote. If they meet all the requirements to vote, the state must allow it.
You don't need a reason to deny a non-citizen voting privileges.
Voting laws are meant to ensure the person voting is an actual citizen of your country. When we have millions of illegals living in the country, that is pretty important.
If you're arguing that the GOP is putting forward bad voting laws, that is an entirely different argument than 'you shouldn't require an ID to vote'.
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On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism.
So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument (specifically by saying that my comment about imbeciles not being able to get ID is racist), so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
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On July 27 2016 03:59 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:49 oBlade wrote:
Any kind of voter control would be better than what we have now. I'm not sure what kind of voter control you think we currently have, but it's not like illegals are running rampant in voting booths and people are regularly voting multiple times or stealing identities lol I'm not saying it happens often, but anything we could do to stop it would be a good idea. It's too easy for people to vote. Uneducated people keep voting for the wrong candidates.
Ah, if you're arguing for some sort of political pre-test in order to become qualified to vote, then that's an interesting idea. It's currently unconstitutional and Republicans would never allow such a thing to pass (or else they'd never win another election lol), but I do wish people would educate themselves before voting.
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On July 27 2016 04:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:56 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:54 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 Plansix wrote:On July 27 2016 03:45 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:43 TheTenthDoc wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen. Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer. What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'. It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years. No, the original claim was that Donald Trump wants to stop same-day voting registration (which does limit voting rights). It had nothing to do with voter ID. In fact he doesn't even endorse requiring an ID particularly, just a method to stop non-citizens from voting. How does that limit voting rights? You have months/years between elections to register to vote. Because it denies people the right to vote for no reason? Requiring people register to vote before election day doesn't deny them the right to vote. That isn’t a reason. You need a reason to deny someone the ability to vote. If they meet all the requirements to vote, the state must allow it. You don't need a reason to deny a non-citizen voting privileges. Voting laws are meant to ensure the person voting is an actual citizen of your country. When we have millions of illegals living in the country, that is pretty important. If you're arguing that the GOP is putting forward bad voting laws, that is an entirely different argument than 'you shouldn't require an ID to vote'.
How does allowing same-day voting with provisional ballots make it any harder or easier to stop non-citizens from voting, exactly? That's part of what we're discussing remember.
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United States42986 Posts
On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny.
It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.
On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it. I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them.
Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements.
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On July 27 2016 04:00 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:11 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Yes, but people also think you should be able to vote if you forgot your ID at home. Many of the laws do not allow for provisional ballets so the person can come back later with the correct document. And those specific laws have been struck down over and over. Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen. Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer. What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'. It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years. 1) There was no racism in my post. You're still lazy and dishonest when it comes to posting. 2) You are the one supporting laws that will restrict people's ability to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Therefore the onus is on you to provide a justification for this. "Because it makes sense" is NOT a justification, and for the 8th time, "voter fraud" is a load of shit. So until you can come up with a justifiable reason to limit someone's constitutional right, you've got no point. You attacked him for 'white privilege' among other things as a means of dismissing him and silencing his ability to respond because he's 'white privileged' I don't support laws that restrict anyone's ability to vote. I think all citizens should have the right to vote. Continue flaming people and making shit up and calling me lazy and dishonest About the point that voter fraud doesn't exist, that's like saying 'I lock my door and no one breaks into my home. Therefore, why do I keep locking my door? I'm locking my door to prevent a crime that doesn't exist. I should just stop locking my door.' Stop fucking flaming people Oh man lmao. When someone is exercising their ignorance due to white privilege, and they're called out on it, that's not racism. Are you kidding me -.-' this quote should be put in the tumblr hall of fame. Next time I see a black person ill say due to them being uneducated, they are clearly exercising their ignorance due to black underprivilege. I'll make sure to call him out on it! definitely won't be racist as I now can see.
On July 27 2016 03:56 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 zlefin wrote:
Ah, the hypocrisy of people pushing for more government regulation of something that's not an actual problem while oft complaining about their being needless and wasteful government regulation. (not sure which people this applies to as I'm not sure which people here complained about the latter) Good point. It always makes me facepalm when I hear from Republicans that they're for smaller government/ keeping the government out of our business. Yeah, except for restricting marriage licenses, what women can do with their bodies, voting opportunities, the right to practice Islam or atheism, ensuring only science is taught in science class, etc. At least Democrats are forthcoming with the idea that the federal government has a role to play in society. it always makes me facepalm when I see people complain about racism but then approve of any racism towards white people.
Here's an example of racism against white people:
A white guy innocently walks down the street, and a few black guys across the street decide to call the white guy names and/ or beat him up because he's white.
This is not an example of racism against white people:
Person 1: Blacks should stop crying about what they have to deal with on a daily basis. It's not that bad.
Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
Learn the difference.
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On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote:Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny. It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:
[quote]
Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one.
And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it. I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them. Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements.
Pics or it didn't happen
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On July 27 2016 04:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 27 2016 03:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:50 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:43 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
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Then don't forget your ID It's not about forgetting; it's about the trouble in obtaining one (see link below). On July 27 2016 03:16 Gorsameth wrote:
For what its worth I find the fact you can vote without an ID to be mind boggling.
However, if you require people to ID themselves the states should also work to ensure that every adult has access to an ID, You cant have voter identification without easy access to ID. And that is the issue! It's not merely that people are lazy or cheap. Here's an article on that, aptly titled "Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly." And that's why Republicans want to force these; to remove the vote of the poor, black, and Latino (as they tend to vote Democrat). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen. Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer. What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'. It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years. 1) There was no racism in my post. You're still lazy and dishonest when it comes to posting. 2) You are the one supporting laws that will restrict people's ability to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Therefore the onus is on you to provide a justification for this. "Because it makes sense" is NOT a justification, and for the 8th time, "voter fraud" is a load of shit. So until you can come up with a justifiable reason to limit someone's constitutional right, you've got no point. You attacked him for 'white privilege' among other things as a means of dismissing him and silencing his ability to respond because he's 'white privileged' I don't support laws that restrict anyone's ability to vote. I think all citizens should have the right to vote. Continue flaming people and making shit up and calling me lazy and dishonest About the point that voter fraud doesn't exist, that's like saying 'I lock my door and no one breaks into my home. Therefore, why do I keep locking my door? I'm locking my door to prevent a crime that doesn't exist. I should just stop locking my door.' Stop fucking flaming people Oh man lmao. When someone is exercising their ignorance due to white privilege, and they're called out on it, that's not racism. Are you kidding me -.-' this quote should be put in the tumblr hall of fame. Next time I see a black person ill say due to them being uneducated, they are clearly exercising their ignorance due to black underprivilege. I'll make sure to call him out on it! definitely won't be racist as I now can see. Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 03:56 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 27 2016 03:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 zlefin wrote:
Ah, the hypocrisy of people pushing for more government regulation of something that's not an actual problem while oft complaining about their being needless and wasteful government regulation. (not sure which people this applies to as I'm not sure which people here complained about the latter) Good point. It always makes me facepalm when I hear from Republicans that they're for smaller government/ keeping the government out of our business. Yeah, except for restricting marriage licenses, what women can do with their bodies, voting opportunities, the right to practice Islam or atheism, ensuring only science is taught in science class, etc. At least Democrats are forthcoming with the idea that the federal government has a role to play in society. it always makes me facepalm when I see people complain about racism but then approve of any racism towards white people. Here's an example of racism against white people: A white guy innocently walks down the street, and a few black guys across the street decide to call the white guy names and/ or beat him up because he's white. This is not an example of racism against white people: Person 1: Blacks should stop crying about what they have to deal with on a daily basis. It's not that bad.
Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them. Learn the difference.
thats your made up tumblr version of what racism is.
the real definition of racism is ANY negative or positive bias/connotation toward a race.
Maybe you can link me to another buzzfeed article though or something 
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On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it. I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them.
Noted, but the charge is that my position is racist, so I want to continue exploring that with some of the other posters who are still missing the point that you and a couple of others already grasp.
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On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote:
Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements.
Those systems should exist before voter ID laws even enter the discussion then. Doing otherwise is putting the cart before the horse.
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Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
That is 100% racist though. White privilege as currently defined in contemporary political discourse is racial original sin and collective guilt wrapped into one. Racist as hell.
They could avoid this by dropping the bullshit and going back to what it actually is and what it used to be called: discrimination. White privilege is discrimination by and for whites. Simple as that.
Drop the racist pop pyschology about how whites can't understand or cannot have the proper empathy and all the other racist bullshit that is simply a way to tell white people to shut up and accept the political opinions of non-whites as superior.
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On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote:
Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny.
It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.
.
you obviously haven't paid attention to the numerous sources and well-done studies on the topic, which have already been cited in this thread. I would ask that you pay more attention to them.
either that or you're strawmanning by mispresenting what the actual issue is; not sure which.
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On July 27 2016 04:11 Trainrunnef wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote:Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny. It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
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Racism: check
Insulting: check
Broad claims with no support: check
More insults: check
I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it. I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them. Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements. Pics or it didn't happen
What if the vote commiting voter fraud just aren't being caught? There could be a vastly larger number of shady votes than you think.
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On July 27 2016 04:15 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:11 Trainrunnef wrote:On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote:Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny. It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right.
2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion.
15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard.
Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it. I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them. Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements. Pics or it didn't happen What if the vote commiting voter fraud just aren't being caught? There could be a vastly larger number of shady votes than you think.
Huzzah, we've moved from denying the facts to pls prove a negative.
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On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 27 2016 03:40 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On July 27 2016 03:26 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 27 2016 03:23 xDaunt wrote:With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID. Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one. And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass. Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right. 2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as long as you're not a poor retard. Sigh. Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't. Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles. So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist? Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism. So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument (specifically by saying that my comment about imbeciles not being able to get ID is racist), so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
Which is what I did the first time I mentioned it all. I provided a source, which you obviously ignored.
Here are more sources with more data and analyses. Please read them this time:
"State legislators who support voter ID laws are motivated in no small part by racial bias, according to a new study from the University of Southern California. The study finds strong evidence that "discriminatory intent underlies legislative support for voter identification laws.""
~ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/06/03/study-finds-strong-evidence-for-discriminatory-intent-behind-voter-id-laws/
"Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one.
The Supreme Court has held that a state cannot value one person’s vote over another and that is exactly what these laws do.
Research shows that 11% of US citizens – or more than 21 million Americans -- do not have government-issued photo identification.
As many as 25% of African American citizens of voting age do not have a government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of their white counterparts.
18% of Americans over the age of 65 (or 6 million senior citizens) do not have a government-issued photo ID."
~ https://www.aclu.org/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet
This is a nice extra little tidbit, showing a strong correlation between how strict voter ID laws are in specific states and how racist and conservative those states' citizens are: https://mic.com/articles/119844/one-chart-shows-the-depressingly-racist-truth-about-voter-id-laws-you-tried-to-ignore#.3SMjIb5Cq
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