In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote: Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny.
It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.
On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:
On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right.
2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as longas you're not a poor retard.
Sigh.
Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't.
Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles.
So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist?
Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism.
So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them.
Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements.
Pics or it didn't happen
What if the vote commiting voter fraud just aren't being caught? There could be a vastly larger number of shady votes than you think.
OR we could rely on thorough studies; plus intelligent analysis. I recommend the studies + analysis method.
There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote: Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny.
It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.
On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:
On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote: [quote]
Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't.
Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles.
So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist?
Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism.
So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them.
Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements.
Pics or it didn't happen
What if the vote commiting voter fraud just aren't being caught? There could be a vastly larger number of shady votes than you think.
Huzzah, we've moved from denying the facts to pls prove a negative.
I'm not saying he should prove anything. When I go to vote I vote with my ID card. My part of Europe has a long history of vote manipulation, its incredibly easy to do.
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
and if the republicans would pass laws like that, we wouldn't have a problem. But they don't. hence the issue.
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
Nice to see the secret socialist in you peeking out once in a while.
On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote: Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny.
It very much is an issue that matters. Even if the voter ID laws are flawed they do help to prevent fraud, which definitely exists and can influence elections.
On July 27 2016 04:07 KwarK wrote:
On July 27 2016 04:02 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:52 xDaunt wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote: [quote]
Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't.
Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles.
So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist?
Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism.
So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument, so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
I think the barriers are more education, social status and access to money and resources which, while not divided strictly down racial lines, do have a racial implication. The guy I helped who couldn't seem to get documents on his own was white but he certainly wasn't privileged. xDaunt have you actually tried working the system to get documented from undocumented? I have. There are barriers which can be pretty easily overcome by someone with intelligence and means but not so easily overcome without them.
Then add some system to offer them some help? Incompetence is a shitty reason to remove those requirements.
Pics or it didn't happen
What if the vote commiting voter fraud just aren't being caught? There could be a vastly larger number of shady votes than you think.
Huzzah, we've moved from denying the facts to pls prove a negative.
Fortunately its already been proven by years of competition and mistrust between the two parties like i already said. if republicans found democrats were doing it it would be all over the news, and vise versa, and I would be absolutely astonished if neither have tried.
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
You can have them. They are allowed. They just must be written correctly, which isn’t what is happening. They combat a crime that does not happen, but the laws are allowed to exist. As long as a provisional vote can be cast if the person doesn’t have ID.
With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID.
Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one.
And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass.
Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check
I hope you're referring to xDaunt there, considering he's the one calling people imbeciles and retarded for wanting to exercise their constitutional right.
2nd Amendment: Right to bare arms. Constitutional right to own a gun, full stop, end of discussion. 15th Amendment: Right to vote. Constitutional right to vote as longas you're not a poor retard.
Sigh.
Sorry daunt isn't attacking someone based on their skin color, so no i wasn't.
Actually, he was completely dismissing the previously-mentioned (by me and the link I posted) fact that blacks/ Latinos/ immigrants have a harder time obtaining a voter ID, so yes that's an issue too. He instead ignored all of those other issues and just focus on making fun of poor people, calling them retarded and imbeciles.
So are poor blacks and latinos unable to get the IDs because they're black and latinos or because they are poor? What about poor white people? Who's actually injecting race into the argument and why? Who's the actual racist?
Poor white people would be classified under "poor", obviously. And pointing out the inconsistencies of constitutional rights afforded to different races isn't being racist; it's reporting racism.
So again, what differentiates the ability of a white person to get an ID vs a black person? You're the one injecting race into the argument (specifically by saying that my comment about imbeciles not being able to get ID is racist), so you should be able to provide a basis for it.
Which is what I did the first time I mentioned it all. I provided a source, which you obviously ignored.
Here are more sources with more data and analyses. Please read them this time:
"Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one. The Supreme Court has held that a state cannot value one person’s vote over another and that is exactly what these laws do. Research shows that 11% of US citizens – or more than 21 million Americans -- do not have government-issued photo identification. As many as 25% of African American citizens of voting age do not have a government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of their white counterparts. 18% of Americans over the age of 65 (or 6 million senior citizens) do not have a government-issued photo ID." ~ https://www.aclu.org/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet
That's a nice imitation of a kwizach post. However, it doesn't support the points that you have made: requiring voter ID is per se racist, and by extension, that I'm a racist for suggesting that the burden of getting an ID is minor and not unreasonable.
So before we go further, let me ask: are you really sure that these are the positions that you want to take or are you ready to scale them back?
John Oliver made a video on this exact issue. I know the conservatives might not like to see/listen to it but its actually pretty enlightening - especially towards the end.
We had a similar process happen in India (where I am originally from) where Voter ID cards were made mandatory, but temporary Voter ID centers were setup almost every couple of blocks for almost a month in every city, village and town, to let people in that area get their Identification (in addition to existing State Government offices). Photos and biometrics were taken free of cost and the cards were issued at no cost to the people. During these period, these centers were opened for extra long hours (until 8:00 PM), to ensure that working class people could return home from their jobs, and then visit these centers to obtain IDs.
Before any sweeping Voter ID laws are made mandatory, a good faith effort must be made to ensure that as many people are included in the process before the laws are enforced. The efforts should be centered around fraud prevention, and not as a way to exclude certain demographic to skew voting results to your liking (especially in republican states)
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
Nice to see the secret socialist in you peeking out once in a while.
Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
That is 100% racist though. White privilege as currently defined in contemporary political discourse is racial original sin and collective guilt wrapped into one. Racist as hell.
They could avoid this by dropping the bullshit and going back to what it actually is and what it used to be called: discrimination. White privilege is discrimination by and for whites. Simple as that.
Drop the racist pop pyschology about how whites can't understand or cannot have the proper empathy and all the other racist bullshit that is simply a way to tell white people to shut up and accept the political opinions of non-whites as superior.
Understanding your privilege is understanding that rather than stating "It is not very difficult to get an ID" you should be stating "I don't believe it is very difficult to get an ID for someone like me". I don't know how much being white helps me compared to being rich or being intelligent or being well spoken or any of the other factors I have counting in my favour, I can't know because I don't have a control group whose life I am also living which I can compare to. But if people with a different skin colour to me are saying that they can't get IDs very easily then it's really not much help to them if I interrupt with "but I can, it's not hard" as if that helps their problem.
It's just understanding that your experiences are not always evidence applicable to the situations of others. No more, no less. If someone is having a problem and you tell them that their problem doesn't exist because you don't experience it then you may be speaking from white privilege. If you then refuse to help them fix that problem but instead create additional issues which are grandfathered in by the problem you insist doesn't exist then you're just compound fucking them. And if you keep doing it after it has been explained to you that people with a different skin colour to you get fucked by this then eventually people are going to work out that it's not an accident, that you're doing it deliberately to fuck them.
On July 27 2016 04:07 LegalLord wrote: Whoever argued that voter fraud is not and cannot be an issue... hahahahahaha ur funny.
I think everyone who has read the research on voter fraud is arguing that we currently do not have anything to worry about regarding voter fraud. Voter fraud is basically double-digit-out-of-millions, such as these examples:
"A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.
In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.
Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.
Furthermore, it disenfranchises millions of American citizens from being able to vote:
"Since 2001, nearly 1,000 bills that would tighten voting laws have been introduced in 46 states. 24 voting restrictions have passed in 17 states since 2011. This fall, new laws could affect more than 5 million voters in states representing 179 of the 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency.
2.2 million registered voters did not vote in 2008 because they didn't have proper ID.
Only 48 percent of women have a birth certificate with their current legal name on it.
With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID.
Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one.
And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass.
Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check
If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen.
Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer.
What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'.
It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years.
No, the original claim was that Donald Trump wants to stop same-day voting registration (which does limit voting rights). It had nothing to do with voter ID. In fact he doesn't even endorse requiring an ID particularly, just a method to stop non-citizens from voting.
How does that limit voting rights? You have months/years between elections to register to vote.
Because it denies people the right to vote for no reason?
Requiring people register to vote before election day doesn't deny them the right to vote.
That isn’t a reason. You need a reason to deny someone the ability to vote. If they meet all the requirements to vote, the state must allow it.
You don't need a reason to deny a non-citizen voting privileges.
Voting laws are meant to ensure the person voting is an actual citizen of your country. When we have millions of illegals living in the country, that is pretty important.
If you're arguing that the GOP is putting forward bad voting laws, that is an entirely different argument than 'you shouldn't require an ID to vote'.
How does allowing same-day voting with provisional ballots make it any harder or easier to stop non-citizens from voting, exactly? That's part of what we're discussing remember.
I'm going to describe my ideal voting system.
Citizens can vote. You register to vote prior to election day. You show proof of citizenship on election day and vote. There
You register prior to election day because voting stations are already undermanned and extremely congested in election day. Having everyone registered to vote who is going to vote beforehand just makes the entire bureaucratic process smoother for everyone.
You show proof of citizenship because it is something all citizens have. There is no negative to showing citizenship and it prevents voter fraud. We have millions of non-citizens in the U.S. and this is a precautionary measure with no downside.
~~~~~~
I've already given my reasons to why I think you should register to vote prior to election day. You have months, years to do this. It is very easy to register to vote.
The criticism seems to be that 'it is not easy to register to vote, therefore I should be allowed to register on election day'
If the problem is that going from legal undocumented to legal documented, then that's a separate issue. You should get it done prior to election day. If we want to talk about how to make it easier to register to vote, that's not an issue I have problem with discussing but it's completely separate from registering to vote on election day and the problems that brings with it. Allowing you to register to vote on the day you want to vote is just procrastination and not a solution to the problem. Just be responsible and register to vote sometime within the years prior to the election.
Another criticism is that "it's too hard for the poor to get valid proof of citizenship/voter ID"
Saying 'scrap proof of citizenship/voter ID' seems like the irrational solution to this problem. The solution should be to make it easier to get access to these documents. You still should require proof citizenship/voter ID to vote.
And finally, saying 'there is no widespread case of voter fraud, therefore we should abandon all means to combat it' is the last criticism I find unsavory. It's a direct result of adopting bad solutions to the two above problems, rather than more rational solutions.
Just because a crime isn't occurring doesn't mean you should abandon all measures to prevent it from happening, especially when those measures ought to be relatively easy to implement.
Essentially, rather than scrapping these laws and measures that exist to prevent voter fraud and make the bureaucratic process easier for everyone because 'it's too hard to follow them for some people because it is unfairly difficult to follow for the poor', the laws ought to be changed such that this isn't a problem. We should focus on improving them rather than arguing they are 'racist and should be abandoned'.
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
and if the republicans would pass laws like that, we wouldn't have a problem. But they don't. hence the issue.
Great. Talk about the laws, not about how funfair it is to have to have an ID to vote in the first place.
With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID.
Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one.
And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass.
Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check
If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen.
Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer.
What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'.
It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years.
1) There was no racism in my post. You're still lazy and dishonest when it comes to posting.
2) You are the one supporting laws that will restrict people's ability to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Therefore the onus is on you to provide a justification for this. "Because it makes sense" is NOT a justification, and for the 8th time, "voter fraud" is a load of shit.
So until you can come up with a justifiable reason to limit someone's constitutional right, you've got no point.
You attacked him for 'white privilege' among other things as a means of dismissing him and silencing his ability to respond because he's 'white privileged'
I don't support laws that restrict anyone's ability to vote. I think all citizens should have the right to vote. Continue flaming people and making shit up and calling me lazy and dishonest
About the point that voter fraud doesn't exist, that's like saying 'I lock my door and no one breaks into my home. Therefore, why do I keep locking my door? I'm locking my door to prevent a crime that doesn't exist. I should just stop locking my door.'
Stop fucking flaming people
Oh man lmao. When someone is exercising their ignorance due to white privilege, and they're called out on it, that's not racism. Are you kidding me -.-'
this quote should be put in the tumblr hall of fame.
Next time I see a black person ill say due to them being uneducated, they are clearly exercising their ignorance due to black underprivilege. I'll make sure to call him out on it! definitely won't be racist as I now can see.
On July 27 2016 03:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:48 zlefin wrote: Ah, the hypocrisy of people pushing for more government regulation of something that's not an actual problem while oft complaining about their being needless and wasteful government regulation. (not sure which people this applies to as I'm not sure which people here complained about the latter)
Good point. It always makes me facepalm when I hear from Republicans that they're for smaller government/ keeping the government out of our business. Yeah, except for restricting marriage licenses, what women can do with their bodies, voting opportunities, the right to practice Islam or atheism, ensuring only science is taught in science class, etc.
At least Democrats are forthcoming with the idea that the federal government has a role to play in society.
it always makes me facepalm when I see people complain about racism but then approve of any racism towards white people.
Here's an example of racism against white people:
A white guy innocently walks down the street, and a few black guys across the street decide to call the white guy names and/ or beat him up because he's white.
This is not an example of racism against white people:
Person 1: Blacks should stop crying about what they have to deal with on a daily basis. It's not that bad. Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
Learn the difference.
thats your made up tumblr version of what racism is.
I didn't make up the term racism or white privilege, and they're well understood in sociological contexts. I strongly recommend some general reading on the subject of the latter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege There are ~150 additional citations at the bottom of that page, if you're interested in learning more.
Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
That is 100% racist though. White privilege as currently defined in contemporary political discourse is racial original sin and collective guilt wrapped into one. Racist as hell.
They could avoid this by dropping the bullshit and going back to what it actually is and what it used to be called: discrimination. White privilege is discrimination by and for whites. Simple as that.
Drop the racist pop pyschology about how whites can't understand or cannot have the proper empathy and all the other racist bullshit that is simply a way to tell white people to shut up and accept the political opinions of non-whites as superior.
White people absolutely can be empathetic towards other races, but to be immediately dismissive and assume that minorities are overstating their well-documented issues of dealing with prejudice is a position of blissful ignorance. No one is saying that non-whites are superior; in fact, the point is that non-whites are frequently viewed as automatically inferior due to bigotry.
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
I'm fine with that Do keep in mind, however, that it's the Republicans who are against something like this.
With very few, situation/fact-specific exceptions, only imbeciles are unable to get IDs. Apologies for imbeciles is not exactly a good reason for not requiring voter ID.
Step out of your white, privileged little bubble and get some experience in the real world for once in your life. A very significant segment of the population has a hard time either getting an ID or affording one.
And no, they're not imbeciles. You're just a spoiled ass.
Racism: check Insulting: check Broad claims with no support: check More insults: check
If we go back to what started this, it was a claim that Donald Trump wants to reduce voter rights by enforcing that only citizens vote, either through a Voter ID or some other means of identification as a citizen.
Most rational people take no offense with this. We do not need additional accommodation laws for people who forget their id's at home, that is a no-brainer.
What he's suggesting here is in no way a 'reduction in voter's rights'.
It seems to me the only criticism is that coming across a valid government ID, like a driver's license, as a requirement to vote is too difficult for poor people to obtain over the course of 4 years.
1) There was no racism in my post. You're still lazy and dishonest when it comes to posting.
2) You are the one supporting laws that will restrict people's ability to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Therefore the onus is on you to provide a justification for this. "Because it makes sense" is NOT a justification, and for the 8th time, "voter fraud" is a load of shit.
So until you can come up with a justifiable reason to limit someone's constitutional right, you've got no point.
You attacked him for 'white privilege' among other things as a means of dismissing him and silencing his ability to respond because he's 'white privileged'
I don't support laws that restrict anyone's ability to vote. I think all citizens should have the right to vote. Continue flaming people and making shit up and calling me lazy and dishonest
About the point that voter fraud doesn't exist, that's like saying 'I lock my door and no one breaks into my home. Therefore, why do I keep locking my door? I'm locking my door to prevent a crime that doesn't exist. I should just stop locking my door.'
Stop fucking flaming people
Oh man lmao. When someone is exercising their ignorance due to white privilege, and they're called out on it, that's not racism. Are you kidding me -.-'
this quote should be put in the tumblr hall of fame.
Next time I see a black person ill say due to them being uneducated, they are clearly exercising their ignorance due to black underprivilege. I'll make sure to call him out on it! definitely won't be racist as I now can see.
On July 27 2016 03:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 27 2016 03:48 zlefin wrote: Ah, the hypocrisy of people pushing for more government regulation of something that's not an actual problem while oft complaining about their being needless and wasteful government regulation. (not sure which people this applies to as I'm not sure which people here complained about the latter)
Good point. It always makes me facepalm when I hear from Republicans that they're for smaller government/ keeping the government out of our business. Yeah, except for restricting marriage licenses, what women can do with their bodies, voting opportunities, the right to practice Islam or atheism, ensuring only science is taught in science class, etc.
At least Democrats are forthcoming with the idea that the federal government has a role to play in society.
it always makes me facepalm when I see people complain about racism but then approve of any racism towards white people.
Here's an example of racism against white people:
A white guy innocently walks down the street, and a few black guys across the street decide to call the white guy names and/ or beat him up because he's white.
This is not an example of racism against white people:
Person 1: Blacks should stop crying about what they have to deal with on a daily basis. It's not that bad. Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
Learn the difference.
thats your made up tumblr version of what racism is.
I didn't make up the term racism or white privilege, and they're well understood in sociological contexts. I strongly recommend some general reading on the subject of the latter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege There are ~150 additional citations at the bottom of that page, if you're interested in learning more.
Person 2: Excuse me, Person 1, but you're white and apparently not aware of the prejudice that blacks have to deal with on a daily basis, despite the fact that it's well-documented, historic, and systemic. Your position of ignorance and dismissal of other people's racial struggles is something called white privilege; you are fortunate enough to not need to deal with these experiences that others deal with, but you shouldn't belittle them.
That is 100% racist though. White privilege as currently defined in contemporary political discourse is racial original sin and collective guilt wrapped into one. Racist as hell.
They could avoid this by dropping the bullshit and going back to what it actually is and what it used to be called: discrimination. White privilege is discrimination by and for whites. Simple as that.
Drop the racist pop pyschology about how whites can't understand or cannot have the proper empathy and all the other racist bullshit that is simply a way to tell white people to shut up and accept the political opinions of non-whites as superior.
White people absolutely can be empathetic towards other races, but to be immediately dismissive and assume that minorities are overstating their well-documented issues of dealing with prejudice is a position of blissful ignorance. No one is saying that non-whites are superior; in fact, the point is that non-whites are frequently viewed as automatically inferior due to bigotry.
wew lad trying to rewrite extremely easy to look up clear cut things, interesting
racism ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/Submit noun the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
There is no picking and choosing, it is all negative/positive bias aka my definition, not your made up one.
On July 27 2016 04:18 DeepElemBlues wrote: There's zero reason not to have voter ID. If people cannot get an ID on their own, the government should pay for the ID, pay for the transportation to the driver's license center or whatever, pay for all of it so that person gets an ID that is valid to use to vote. That is 100% a proper function and responsibility of government. Problem solved. No poor or racial minorities get disadvantaged, everybody gets their ID, hold hands and sing kumbaya already.
and if the republicans would pass laws like that, we wouldn't have a problem. But they don't. hence the issue.
Great. Talk about the laws, not about how funfair it is to have to have an ID to vote in the first place.
If there was a proposal to have the polls only be open from 9am to 5pm with an hour closed at midday for lunch do you think that might impact employed Americans more than it does the unemployed? And if you did think it impacted them more would you campaign for a national holiday on election day or would you just say "that proposed law is bullshit because it disenfranchises me and people like me".
The groundwork that fixes the problems has to be laid before you grandfather those problems into future laws. Once DEB gets everyone (or near everyone, everyone is an impossible standard) an ID we can go ahead and have voter ID laws but accepting them in the hope that the ID issue gets fixed eventually is like accepting polls only open in work hours in the hope of a national holiday.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9f9NlWs.png)
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Do keep in mind, however, that it's the Republicans who are against something like this. 
