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queen change is fucking awful too. dw build 5000 drones and bases, and creep the 3rd and defend everything np.
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On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2.
where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game?
Hell at any stage of the game?
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On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2.
Mines in BW would never kill off a huge part of your army and you can try to spread your units against a Spider Mine, whereas you can do nothing once you have a core chunk of your army fungaled except hope the opponent forgets the last Fungal.
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On November 09 2012 21:36 Roth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. Yeah, that were pretty much the sickest Fungals of all time. Like Khaldor said there was merely a unit not being fungaled. Bit I am afraid that Blizzard will overchange the Infestor and you saw that Leenock needed the Infestors because with Muta/Ling/Bane he would maybe not able to win anyway.If Fungal gets changed too hard Zerg will fall.
Actually he managed to beat MKP with ling/bling/muta only. But of course, any change to the infestor needs to be very small at first. I like the idea of making infestor 3 food. It would make it less late game massable without losing it's support role in any way. And making interceptors non-fungalable so carriers can be viable.
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It's really entertaining how them zergies expect terrans to do these 300 apm techniques (splitting marines, using emps with what minor range advantage there is, kite corruptors with vikings) when all they ever had to do is to use the 2.0 radius stunning+damaging spell on everything. Really fair.
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Fungal is killing the game, its making zerg far to easy and cost effective play, upseting the balance. I really don't see any restrictions on zerg like i do with other races, long ago they asked if fungal should not hit air and so many pro gamer zergs were saying no you cant do that zerg would be to shit, lol well those pro gamers are still shit and the actual good zergs are raping face because fungal is the easiest and best spell in the game~
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DB, please start watching GSL and GSTL...
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Starting with a small change like the "3-food-infestor" is a good idea imo. Those GSL games of today clearly showed, that something is wrong with the infestor.
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Infestors are an absolute fucking joke. There is a small redeeming factor: playing vs. zerg trains you to make zero mistakes, and this benefits me both in the long run and in other matchups.
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On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game?
They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own.
Anyway it is not really hard to keep your army spread in Sc2, unless you 1a everything around, so it is mostly the players fault that Fungal hits so perfect (As if plague was any different ..., well it didn't need to chain anything). Especially Vikings are super easy to keep constantly spread.
That being said I have no doubt Fungal will soon be a Range 8 spell. Would be a better solution then making it 1.5 radius. What I personally would prefer is that units wouldn't forget their commands when fungaled or could be issues new ones even if Fungal prevents those from being done. So you could spread Medivacs out and send them home instead of having to issue a command after every fungal so the Zerg doesn't even has to bother chaining them right. Or that a suicide Blink into the Broodlords works better, because your units suddenly don't start attacking the free units because of their target priority after Fungal decides it doesn't like that your units targetfire stuff.
Fungal makes the opponent look like an idiot especially when harassing. Only with Fungal you see Medivacs going super derp mode. Having to pay attention to your Medivac every 3 seconds just to save it is alot of multitasking to ask for. But if they would keep their commands Fungal would already be weaker by alot.
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On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own.
Banelings getting killed by tanks isnt a Zerg mistake, because it doesnt matter. In the games I see there are maybe a few dead Banelings, but the well-spread Terran army still gets annihilated because there are too many lings on the map and they are far to easy (1a-move every once in a while) to use while the countermeasure (Marine-split) takes A LOT more micro to pull off ... and then its still not enough.
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On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own. Anyway it is not really hard to keep your army spread in Sc2, unless you 1a everything around, so it is mostly the players fault that Fungal hits so perfect (As if plague was any different ..., well it didn't need to chain anything). Especially Vikings are super easy to keep constantly spread. That being said I have no doubt Fungal will soon be a Range 8 spell. Would be a better solution then making it 1.5 radius. What I personally would prefer is that units wouldn't forget their commands when fungaled or could be issues new ones even if Fungal prevents those from being done. So you could spread Medivacs out and send them home instead of having to issue a command after every fungal so the Zerg doesn't even has to bother chaining them right. Or that a suicide Blink into the Broodlords works better, because your units suddenly don't start attacking the free units because of their target priority after Fungal decides it doesn't like that your units targetfire stuff. Fungal makes the opponent look like an idiot especially when harassing. Only with Fungal you see Medivacs going super derp mode. Having to pay attention to your Medivac every 3 seconds just to save it is alot of multitasking to ask for. But if they would keep their commands Fungal would already be weaker by alot.
You can't compare BW AoE with SC2. The unit density is just not the same. Imagine sc2 tank with BW tank range...
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On November 09 2012 22:17 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own. Banelings getting killed by tanks isnt a Zerg mistake, because it doesnt matter. In the games I see there are maybe a few dead Banelings, but the well-spread Terran army still gets annihilated because there are too many lings on the map and they are far to easy (1a-move every once in a while) to use while the countermeasure (Marine-split) takes A LOT more micro to pull off ... and then its still not enough.
Thats a good point.. I don't play terran but every time a see a marine-tank push in a casted game, it gets annihilated before it does any damage, no matter if tanks are sieged or marines split. Usually terrans are pretty far behind then.
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On November 09 2012 22:25 MWY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 22:17 Rabiator wrote:On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own. Banelings getting killed by tanks isnt a Zerg mistake, because it doesnt matter. In the games I see there are maybe a few dead Banelings, but the well-spread Terran army still gets annihilated because there are too many lings on the map and they are far to easy (1a-move every once in a while) to use while the countermeasure (Marine-split) takes A LOT more micro to pull off ... and then its still not enough. Thats a good point.. I don't play terran but every time a see a marine-tank push in a casted game, it gets annihilated before it does any damage, no matter if tanks are sieged or marines split. Usually terrans are pretty far behind then.
Yup. Tanks just suck in TvZ now. I don't know if this is due to maps, creeps or whatever. The only time I see them get a decent number of kills is if they are siege behind buildings for ling run bys. And they sometimes do as much damage to marines as they do to lings.
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On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2.
The problem is that there's no equivalency here. It's very easy for Zerg to capitalize HUGELY on a very tiny Terran mistake, but it's not easy for Terran (or Protoss, for that matter) to capitalize on small Zerg mistakes. Hell, it's not even easy to capitalize on large Zerg mistakes outside of Vortexing them, and even that's no longer a sure fire win if it hits anymore.
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On November 09 2012 22:25 MWY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 22:17 Rabiator wrote:On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own. Banelings getting killed by tanks isnt a Zerg mistake, because it doesnt matter. In the games I see there are maybe a few dead Banelings, but the well-spread Terran army still gets annihilated because there are too many lings on the map and they are far to easy (1a-move every once in a while) to use while the countermeasure (Marine-split) takes A LOT more micro to pull off ... and then its still not enough. Thats a good point.. I don't play terran but every time a see a marine-tank push in a casted game, it gets annihilated before it does any damage, no matter if tanks are sieged or marines split. Usually terrans are pretty far behind then.
players tend to delay tank push and then walk so far up on creep, most maps are easy to get surrounds on and besides unless u havent noticed, the banelings are always well spread out for the zerg pros and they are always targetting marine balls with those banelings, zoning the marines out... If you dont know shit about something, dont comment please.
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On November 09 2012 22:17 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own. Banelings getting killed by tanks isnt a Zerg mistake, because it doesnt matter. In the games I see there are maybe a few dead Banelings, but the well-spread Terran army still gets annihilated because there are too many lings on the map and they are far to easy (1a-move every once in a while) to use while the countermeasure (Marine-split) takes A LOT more micro to pull off ... and then its still not enough.
Also there's the fact that you have to spread bio to mitigate baneling splash/ infestor AOE but that allows Zerglings to get better surface area when attacking. Spreading is necessary but at the same time is bad vs. Lings. It's ridiculous.
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lol... its not like heavy infestor usage is something new.
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On November 09 2012 23:25 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 22:25 MWY wrote:On November 09 2012 22:17 Rabiator wrote:On November 09 2012 22:13 FeyFey wrote:On November 09 2012 21:52 Sadist wrote:On November 09 2012 21:43 Glurkenspurk wrote:On November 09 2012 21:30 xAdra wrote:
Leenock vs Byun tonight, GSTL game 8.
Byun makes the singular mistake of having his vikings clumped up for a single second. Chain fungals kill every single viking together, and byun dies to a single-sided beatdown by broodlords.
I can't express how sick I am at watching any progame with late game zergs. And don't act like this is the first time it's happened; every single TvZ I watch recently ends in such a tragedy. So like fumbling the ball in football, or walking into a mine in bw or mistiming a powerup in quake? One mistake can cost losses in like.. every game ever. Especially a big one like not splitting your units in sc2. where are the mistakes zerg makes that costs them the game instantly in late game? Hell at any stage of the game? They got qqed out of them game. Well I would say the Banelings get killed by a tank is still there and the Broodlords get hit by multiple Seeker Missiles. But it can't be long before Zergs find out that they can actually split units. Or even worse they find out that they are the reason why there are oversupply abilities for the other races and use their own. Banelings getting killed by tanks isnt a Zerg mistake, because it doesnt matter. In the games I see there are maybe a few dead Banelings, but the well-spread Terran army still gets annihilated because there are too many lings on the map and they are far to easy (1a-move every once in a while) to use while the countermeasure (Marine-split) takes A LOT more micro to pull off ... and then its still not enough. Thats a good point.. I don't play terran but every time a see a marine-tank push in a casted game, it gets annihilated before it does any damage, no matter if tanks are sieged or marines split. Usually terrans are pretty far behind then. players tend to delay tank push and then walk so far up on creep, most maps are easy to get surrounds on and besides unless u havent noticed, the banelings are always well spread out for the zerg pros and they are always targetting marine balls with those banelings, zoning the marines out... If you dont know shit about something, dont comment please.
That is the problem. Creep is much harder to contain now. So terrans are pretty much force to walk on creep if they want to hit before BLs. Yes, zergs have gotten much better at splitting their banes so 1 tank shot doesn't kil 4-5 banes. Problem is what can Terran do to counter at this? Terrans with good micro should trade well against Zerg with good micro but it just isn't happening now...
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Northern Ireland26955 Posts
No they aren't though. The amount of pro zergs who have terrible engagements frequently is pretty high. Remember when any Zerg making ultras lost the game? The difference in engagement micro between the average Korean Terran and the average Korean Zerg is huge.
Players like Leenock, DRG and Life who have good micro did well, or would do well regardless of the infestor. Sadly they get targetted unfairly with the pathzerg taunts
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EPT
