EPTDustin Browder On the Infestor - Page 26
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:09 Scootaloo SC2 wrote: I believe the current metagame is "kill zerg before they reach BL/Infestor" as at least Terran as a stronger early/midgame? I hear there does exist a timing where zerg has to sit on gas and minerals while switching to broods, so maybe they're vulnerable then too? I don't think that that balances things out, however, if the conclusion is "if I miss that timing, I lose the game." i don't mind the whole "if zerg gets too big you lose" mentality... it existed in brood war to some extent also this can set apart playstyles with some people saying "fuck it, get brood/festor and i will use special tactics" | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:13 mishimaBeef wrote: i don't mind the whole "if zerg gets too big you lose" mentality... it existed in brood war to some extent also this can set apart playstyles with some people saying "fuck it, get brood/festor and i will use special tactics" Zerg didn't get the free pass to the lategame in BW than we're seeing now, and there were a lot more skirmishes/trades and stuff that happened in BW to prevent critical mass maxes being hit. Plus BW was a mechanically harder game anyway, they're not overly comparable. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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HiTeK532
Canada171 Posts
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:10 TRaFFiC wrote: Blizzard needs a group of pro players who are respected by the community in their pocket. They obviously have no clue what's going on. RESTORE the ghost. Why was the ghost ever nerfed when it is the only counter to bloodlord infestor which dominates every game. Oh come on, snipe was ridiculous before and had to be nerfed. I'll agree that snipe was nerfed too much, and should have been somewhere between where it was and where it is now, but you have to be pretty biased to think it was ok before. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
Just look at that lopsided race distribution, lololol. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 09 2012 07:59 orBitual wrote: The difference is that other zerg units are mundane, whereas protoss has multiple spellcasters, multiple sources of late game AoE, cloaked harassment, high hp, and a hero unit. Zerg has all of these utilities shoved into one unit so it only takes one tech building to acquire, and the semblance of overpoweredness. Zerg have more than one spellcaster as well ... the Queen ... and there was a time when "mass Queen" was a used strategy since they can heal Broodlords and Roaches rather nicely while providing anti-air and ground support themselves MUCH more efficiently than Sentries ever could. Why has "mass Queens" been stopped using? Probably because mass Infestors is much easier to use. | ||
Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On November 09 2012 15:05 TechNoTrance wrote: Oh come on, snipe was ridiculous before and had to be nerfed. I'll agree that snipe was nerfed too much, and should have been somewhere between where it was and where it is now, but you have to be pretty biased to think it was ok before. No it wasn't, you're the only biased one here.Snipe was perfectly fine and required far more apm than fungal growth spam. And don't act like Terran could build nothing but ghosts and kill everything with them. You still needed marines/tanks/marauders/medivacs/vikings. | ||
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
On November 09 2012 15:28 Scila wrote: No it wasn't, you're the only biased one here.Snipe was perfectly fine and required far more apm than fungal growth spam. And don't act like Terran could build nothing but ghosts and kill everything with them. You still needed marines/tanks/marauders/medivacs/vikings. I don't want to get into a balance debate here. Snipe nerf had nothing to fungal growth so I don't see why you are bringing that up. What I saw was a terran mid teir unit countering every high teir unit zerg had. It was not ok. Snipe needed to be nerfed just like infestors should be nerfed now, don't get me wrong about that. I also don't see how I am biased given I main protoss. I wonder what race you play... | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On November 09 2012 15:36 TechNoTrance wrote: I don't want to get into a balance debate here. Snipe nerf had nothing to fungal growth so I don't see why you are bringing that up. What I saw was a terran mid teir unit countering every high teir unit zerg had. It was not ok. Snipe needed to be nerfed just like infestors should be nerfed now, don't get me wrong about that. I also don't see how I am biased given I main protoss. I wonder what race you play... so you're ok with a zerg spellcasting unit countering every single unit terran has | ||
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Rasmudd
Sweden127 Posts
On November 09 2012 15:05 TechNoTrance wrote: Oh come on, snipe was ridiculous before and had to be nerfed. I'll agree that snipe was nerfed too much, and should have been somewhere between where it was and where it is now, but you have to be pretty biased to think it was ok before. Wouldn't snipe have worked nicely if it really slayed infestors but not broods and ultralisks? And it's almost like I think Ghosts should have cloak always on free of cost and perhaps become even squishier? | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:10 TRaFFiC wrote: Blizzard needs a group of pro players who are respected by the community in their pocket. They obviously have no clue what's going on. RESTORE the ghost. Why was the ghost ever nerfed when it is the only counter to bloodlord infestor which dominates every game. Players are "too involved in the game" to look at it with an objective point of view and the biggest problem of the game is the density of the infantry units which maximises their damage output while the power of AoE attacks has been nerfed. Fungal Growth is the one exception because of the lockdown, which can be used to kill very expensive units [Medivacs] for rather not a lot of effort and without a lot of risk. Zerg simply dont need to get any anti-air because of Fungal and Infested Terran who deals more damage than the "real thing". Thus you need people who are NOT INVOLVED with playing the game, but who have the brains and knowledge to look for the problems from an independant perspective. The devs are apparently too involved in their daily minute problems to look at the big picture and most players are probably too concerned about their own race to be objective. | ||
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
On November 09 2012 15:39 FinestHour wrote: so you're ok with a zerg spellcasting unit countering every single unit terran has Do you mind showing me exactly where I said that infestors shouldn't be nerfed? I'm curious what makes you think that. Ridiculous how biased some of you people are to assume I think the infestor is perfectly fine just because I think snipe needed to be nerfed. This is why I don't get in balance arguments. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:13 mishimaBeef wrote: i don't mind the whole "if zerg gets too big you lose" mentality... it existed in brood war to some extent also this can set apart playstyles with some people saying "fuck it, get brood/festor and i will use special tactics" The problem is that the "efficiency" of "Zergs getting too big" has increased due to a single thing: INJECT LARVAE and being able to stockpile it to absurd amounts which allows them to reproduce their whole army in one production cycle. Thus a Zerg can suicide-trade with a Terran going mech or a Colossus army in the full knowledge of having "more stuff" in the next engagement. This "production speed boost discrepancy" between the races is one of the two systematic problems the game has. The other is "too tightly packed infantry make AoE abilities overpowered, so they had to be nerfed (except Fungal Growth, which is awesome no matter what until the lockdown is removed)". Sadly there has been no sign from Blizzard that they see these two problems which limit their own creativity and require a super precise balancing ... which can be thrown off by the next generation of maps. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
Try to imagine things without infestors, and many problems become apparent. You will notice that infestors are only tip of the iceberg of the sc2 design problems. | ||
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Toads
Canada1795 Posts
On November 09 2012 16:15 bokeevboke wrote: People need to realize why Infestors made in a such a way. We need to think what forces zerg to have such unit?Any nerf on it will automatically kill zerg. Try to imagine things without infestors, and many problems become apparent. You will notice that infestors are only tip of the iceberg of the sc2 design problems. +1 I completly agree with you. This is why they should teste somes thing with the zerg in the beta. But blizzard won't do that ofc | ||
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thehepp
United States67 Posts
On November 09 2012 15:28 Qwyn wrote: Well, WCS should do it for them, if they are really looking at tournament standings (FFS it's their own tourney)... Just look at that lopsided race distribution, lololol. Except other tournaments are much more even, GSL is even terran favored. | ||
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