EPTI'd also like to know why infestors are allowed to cast IT while burrowed.
Dustin Browder On the Infestor - Page 10
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
I'd also like to know why infestors are allowed to cast IT while burrowed. | ||
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MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
I dunno about you kids but watching concussive shell micro at the start of games is really awesome. Force fields when placed properly and not spammed like mad are pretty awesome to watch as well. How is it boring and uninspiring to see a perfect slice of an army with forcefields? If anything it's awesome and inspiring. It's like with anything - if it's used effectively then it is powerful. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:38 ReachTheSky wrote: I would like to know why infestors don't need to research burrow movement to move while burrowed. Roaches need to research it to move while burrowed.... I'd also like to know why infestors are allowed to cast IT while burrowed. hell, make them cast it slower or something while borrowed, there's no choice or downside to casting it while burrowed | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:37 Kharnage wrote: The reason Blizz are so passive about infestors is that it's a complicated change. So much of the zerg mid game defense and end game army pivots around infestors. Nerfing them would, without a doubt, make every zerg composition weaker partially because, as everyone correctly points out, getting infestors is ALWAYS a good choice. Comparing sentry to infestor is stupid. Sentries are on a clock. After a certain point you've sunk 1500+ gas into the lowest dps unit in the game. You're just dead. If someone can tell me what number of infestors is 'over making' that would be awesome. That would at least assist your claim that they aren't OP. I think the easiest change to make, that does not help the PvZ problem, is just to revert the queen buff. The queen buff basically removed any form of early game control that terran had. With that control, zerg had to invest money earlier (less drones) to get a third base. Which allowed terrans to be able to push out before infestors hit the field in mass, which means zerg had to spend gas to defend the first terran push, further delaying the infestor/BL composition. While terran was still on a clock, if the zerg could fend out wave after wave of terran while managing to piece together a strong economy to support an expensive composition then it felt like they deserved to have that composition. Now it is so hard for terran to punish any greed that the infestor/BL composition is almost handed to them. While that doesn't fix the situation (primarily PvZ which still needs some help), it at least puts a bandaid on the game that will even up the winrates again until a good fix to infestors is decided on. | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
Fungal doesn't root air OR fungal doesn't root massive (or both?) Done. Solved. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:37 Kharnage wrote: The reason Blizz are so passive about infestors is that it's a complicated change. So much of the zerg mid game defense and end game army pivots around infestors. Nerfing them would, without a doubt, make every zerg composition weaker partially because, as everyone correctly points out, getting infestors is ALWAYS a good choice. Comparing sentry to infestor is stupid. Sentries are on a clock. After a certain point you've sunk 1500+ gas into the lowest dps unit in the game. You're just dead. If someone can tell me what number of infestors is 'over making' that would be awesome. That would at least assist your claim that they aren't OP. quit feeding the troll overmaking them would be when you have too much infestors to spend their energy with your limited apm lolz Seriously theres no situation where I wouldnt want moar infestors... to harass? check. to defend?? check. to attack? check. hell they can be a decent scout if no detection!! | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
you will never hear this. ever. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
Buff Sentry and High Templar move speed and very slightly increase Ghost move speed and HP. Infestors could get +1 base armor since their speed is not an issue due to fungal and their HP is already decent. Buff Raven move speed as well. Half healing done to units by Queens since they aren't getting a cost nerf. Doubling gas costs on VERY gas heavy units will limit spellcaster use to reasonable levels for all races. The only possible issue I could see with this is that the Sentry nerf could hurt PvP excessively and potentially early game TvP, but they could nerf the Sentry less than the other casters if they had to. Suddenly, you've vastly increased the skill cap (keeping your casters alive is CRITICAL) and dealt with the "lol lost all my templar/infestors/ghosts a-moving them with my army, better make 10 more". | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
"The Infestor has not changed in months and it is now appears over powered in some games. What will be overpowered next month? Maybe something new, maybe the Infestor. We are going to discuss it, watch games and see. " It's been overpowered for months. I know what will be overpowered next month... the infestor. The patch happened 3-4 months ago and Zerg is still stupidly strong. A spellcaster shouldn't be as versatile as the infestor is where your army composition is 50% of one spellcaster. | ||
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EienShinwa
United States655 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:19 ReachTheSky wrote: I just think its silly that what is supposed to be a support caster is the preffered massable unit. Its not uncommon to see anywhere between 16-24 infestors at once late game. This. Why are support units massed like this? I don't want to draw comparisons to BW for like the 5 billionth time, but you almost NEVER EVER saw more than 20 spellcasters of ANY unit unless the game dragged on the near hour mark and even then that was rare. Why? Because they will not win the battle for you, merely support you, hence they are support casters... | ||
Falling
Canada11369 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:42 MonkSEA wrote: I dunno about you kids but watching concussive shell micro at the start of games is really awesome. Force fields when placed properly and not spammed like mad are pretty awesome to watch as well. How is it boring and uninspiring to see a perfect slice of an army with forcefields? If anything it's awesome and inspiring. It's like with anything - if it's used effectively then it is powerful. I dislike concussion shells micro because it kills attack-retreat micro for the stalker. I like the attack-retreat micro with marines and marauders (well, ok maybe just marines), but the way to handle that is to play with burst damage and the delay between moving and attacking. NOT entirely denying a form of micro for the opponent. What I mean is the attack-retreat stalker micro vs marines. It's not perfect because of the delay on attack with stalkers (standard fair for SC2 units), but it's good micro. Concussion shells come out. Boom. Can't micro like that anymore. And that's at the heart of the problem with most of these spells and abilities. It's a one-way ability that denies micro to the other side. Playing with burst damage and attack-move delay effects only the micro potential of the unit in question. Most of the micro denying spells and abilities would be alright if they weren't so prevalent. A lot of the micro options in SC2 involve restricting unit movement for their opponent. The more the game revolves around locking down the other players unit movment, rather than it being the occasional use from a high tier unit, the more battles become frustrating. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:53 Gamegene wrote: "HE HAS TOO MANY INFESTORS!" you will never hear this. ever. Yea lol. A unit that can burrow move, AOE damage/snare ground and air, and spawn it's own high DPS minions. All for 100/150 and 2 food... Who ever thought this shit would be overpowered...? | ||
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-TesteR-
Canada1165 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:22 sitromit wrote: It's also not uncommon to see 15-20 Sentries early-mid game. Nope. This is actually extremely uncommon; rare in fact to ever see this. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On November 08 2012 14:11 SupLilSon wrote: Yea lol. A unit that can burrow move, AOE damage/snare ground and air, and spawn it's own high DPS minions. All for 100/150 and 2 food... Who ever thought this shit would be overpowered...? lol yeah its a tad strong. I sure wish ghosts had that much god damn utility. ghosts cost double the minerals of an infestor but 50 gas less, but offer a fraction of the utility that infestors do | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:25 sitromit wrote: You really think a player like DRG, who has time and time again expressed his dislike of Broodlord/Infestor for being too slow and clumsy and not suiting his style, who is one of the best multitaskers in the game with very high APM, chooses to tech BL because he wants to? Zerg has no other option, every other army composition just melts to the Toss deathball once it reaches critical mass. Before, many Korean Zergs who don't like BL/Infestor used to play Muta/Ling, but it increasingly has become a liability, as Protoss players learned to defend better against it, and build a lot of cannons before moving out to make base-races less effective. Not to mention, the mere threat of that never used Phoenix upgrade is enough to make it a very dangerous proposition for the Zerg in the first place. What? You make absolutely no logical connection there. It doesn't mean he plays it because there's no other way to play. It means he plays it because it's the best current way. Why play a style that might win you 45-55% of the time when there's a style that will win throughout the game when there's another style that has 50% chance of winning in the midgame and 75% chance of winning in the lategame? If something is imbalanced, there is little incentive to take an alternative route that isn't as good. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On November 08 2012 14:01 Xeris wrote: It's pretty insane that he posts this now. "The Infestor has not changed in months and it is now appears over powered in some games. What will be overpowered next month? Maybe something new, maybe the Infestor. We are going to discuss it, watch games and see. " It's been overpowered for months. I know what will be overpowered next month... the infestor. The patch happened 3-4 months ago and Zerg is still stupidly strong. A spellcaster shouldn't be as versatile as the infestor is where your army composition is 50% of one spellcaster. I think the issue is that Blizzard have noted that they've not sat on certain strategies long enough and applied what can only be seen as a reactive hotfix before the pros and community at large can figure out the actual issue. Idra has said that by the time the reaper fix came in, zerg were pretty much able to deal with the issue. Reapers now untouched vs zerg. MVP mass sniped zerg in some single digit amount of games and it got nerfed. Ghosts now rarely seen. Thorzain beat immortals with strike canon and it got nerfed. No-one even remembers strike canons now. They probably have sat on this one too long, but honestly people have confused a lot of the complaints. Only 2 months ago people were blaming queens for the matchup, but now the complaints are about infestors. I don't think queens are the issue at all, it got solved. The infestor issue has definitely been around far longer, but has only come to light thanks to a combination of recent balance changes, metagame shifts and more experience with the unit. Still, some people are on what could be read between the lines which is that they might not be as invested in WoL with HotS working towards release. In addition with the sheer amount of tournaments coming at the end of the year, they also may be concerned with making a patch which dramatically shifts metagame at this stage else you end up with those few WCS qualifiers everyone likes to quote. The question is not "Is Infestor an issue?" or "Does Blizzard even realise?" but "Will they patch WoL? And if so, will it still be some time away?" | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 08 2012 14:25 bittman wrote: I think the issue is that Blizzard have noted that they've not sat on certain strategies long enough and applied what can only be seen as a reactive hotfix before the pros and community at large can figure out the actual issue. Idra has said that by the time the reaper fix came in, zerg were pretty much able to deal with the issue. Reapers now untouched vs zerg. MVP mass sniped zerg in some single digit amount of games and it got nerfed. Ghosts now rarely seen. Thorzain beat immortals with strike canon and it got nerfed. No-one even remembers strike canons now. They probably have sat on this one too long, but honestly people have confused a lot of the complaints. Only 2 months ago people were blaming queens for the matchup, but now the complaints are about infestors. I don't think queens are the issue at all, it got solved. The infestor issue has definitely been around far longer, but has only come to light thanks to a combination of recent balance changes, metagame shifts and more experience with the unit. Still, some people are on what could be read between the lines which is that they might not be as invested in WoL with HotS working towards release. In addition with the sheer amount of tournaments coming at the end of the year, they also may be concerned with making a patch which dramatically shifts metagame at this stage else you end up with those few WCS qualifiers everyone likes to quote. The question is not "Is Infestor an issue?" or "Does Blizzard even realise?" but "Will they patch WoL? And if so, will it still be some time away?" Queens didn't get solved. It's the reason Terran cannot deny a third base or creep spread now, and the reason Zerg builds 30 million drones before they build any defensive units, besides queens. It altered how the game is played yes, but definitely for the worse. I don't know if I'd consider that solved. | ||
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I provided some links in this thread for you to have a good laugh, genius.
