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My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did.
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On June 16 2012 10:07 ghrur wrote:
At the end of the day, yeah, the foul didn't cost OKC the game in any way, shape, or form. People who said it did, including me, were just being emotional rather than rational. :/ It was a bad no-call, but it was OKC's fault they had to try and come back from such a gigantic deficit.
I'll preface this by saying that nothing we say really affects the game, it's just how we think and talk about the game.
That said, I don't like or understand the argument that one play didn't lose you the game. If you can win the game on one play, then you sure can lose the game on one play. Moreover, I thought the rule was that you had to win the game by one point. But there was a bad call so now I have to win the game by 3 points? See where this is going? And the winner is the person who has the most points after 48 minutes, not the person who had the biggest lead in the first quarter. What if you were running a marathon and someone came up to you at mile 26 and said you were out of time and you said 'but I still have 0.22 miles to run' and they said 'well you should have run the first 26 miles faster'?
Anyway, the only thing you can do is have the refs do the best job they can and not dwell on alternate timeline theories.
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On June 15 2012 14:10 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 13:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 15 2012 13:42 -_- wrote:
durant can't keep playing so well in the 4th. just can't. if he does, heat won't win the series tt Yeah he can. He is the the best jump shooter in the game's history behind Jordan. It is impossible to guard all time great jump shooting. That's a pretty bold statement.
Yeah, but he's arguably right. Who else? Ray Allen, and...? Steve Nash, maybe? Dirk?
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On June 16 2012 10:50 Chunhyang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 14:10 Jerubaal wrote:On June 15 2012 13:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:On June 15 2012 13:42 -_- wrote:
durant can't keep playing so well in the 4th. just can't. if he does, heat won't win the series tt Yeah he can. He is the the best jump shooter in the game's history behind Jordan. It is impossible to guard all time great jump shooting. That's a pretty bold statement. Yeah, but he's arguably right. Who else? Ray Allen, and...? Steve Nash, maybe? Dirk?
We went over this a couple pages back, and yes Ray Allen, Steve Nash, and Dirk are all miles ahead of him in jump shooting capabilities, thats without mentioning other great shooters like Drazen, Stojakovic, Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin, and many other legends who have proven to be a more capable jump shooter than Jordan.
Thats not to say Jordan wasnt the best scorer in NBA history, he is.
On June 16 2012 10:08 Leyra wrote:
My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did.
Step 1: Actually, I believe they are stars BECAUSE of their ability to stay away from whistles.
Step 2: Well, now players hack every play, this has now become a free throw fest, as literally everyone would use all 6 fouls every game.
Step 3: Great, so you sub in another player to foul every play, you'd literally see 6x12 fouls every game by both teams, thats a whopping 144 fouls a game, minimum, that would be used.
Step 4: Great, so you just sub out at 7 fouls instead of 6? how does that fix your issue at all?
As for your last part, its entirely possible that another player can play better defense than Jordan, believe it or not.
The NBA is getting their highest ratings since moving over to ABC, I don't think they are going to implement your rules that would slow the game down to a crawl.
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Every time I see Russel Westbrook, I am always reminded of the Teenage mutant ninja turtles
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On June 16 2012 11:59 Holcan wrote:
Step 1: Actually, I believe they are stars BECAUSE of their ability to stay away from whistles.
Really now?
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On June 16 2012 12:09 Thermia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 11:59 Holcan wrote:
Step 1: Actually, I believe they are stars BECAUSE of their ability to stay away from whistles.
Really now?
Yup, really.
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On June 16 2012 12:09 Thermia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 11:59 Holcan wrote:
Step 1: Actually, I believe they are stars BECAUSE of their ability to stay away from whistles.
Really now?
yes it is absolutely the case.
the whole reason ppl like lebron, wade, durant, kobe, are able to draw fouls at an elite rate is because of their insane athleticism and inability to be defended with efficiency by a defender. part of a defenders obligation is to have his feet set and movement aligned laterally to not foul in situations where it would be sub-optimal. the above mentioned players live by either penetrating and getting a high EV shot, or getting fouled and, given .75+% FT, a 1.5pt/possession, which is pretty outstanding (exactly like jordan did, go look at the highest ft/100 possession players on bref and it'll basically explain my case part and parcel).
the fact that there are a few supplemented 50/50 calls that could go either way, (like LBJs thigh slap on durant, which did not impede his shot at all, and was absolutely the correct call), is simply an err of judgement on officials acknowledging how much better athletically/bball iq wise the stars tend to be.
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On June 16 2012 10:02 Jerubaal wrote:
Or how about you just call every foul correctly?
This is so absurdly impossible in basketball that I can't comprehend the point you're making. Basketball is easily the hardest to ref mainstream sport. I'd be impressed if refs made the correct call 50% of the time in a game.
One missed call is not a justification for more missed calls. Or shall we go through the whole game and reassign fouls for every play? Because that's what you're suggesting.
I'm saying one missed call doesn't matter because there are dozens in a game that go either way that could've made the lead bigger or smaller. It's all relative and people only harp on the late game fouls because they're fresh in memory. I wasn't suggesting crap about retroactive foul judging, just that one foul does not mean much.
There are bad calls and you have deal with it and live with it, but justifying a bad call like it's some sort of cosmic karma is asinine.
Lol, what the fuck is this? It's not cosmic karma, I'm saying it's a minuscule factor over the course of a long game with a lot of missed calls. You cannot hold the weight of a 48 minute game to one foul call in the last 9 seconds.
You just made up all sorts of arguments that weren't even slightly close to my point.
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On June 16 2012 14:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Basketball is easily the hardest to ref mainstream sport.
It doesn't come anywhere close to soccer. Much bigger field of play, more players, no video review or technology of any kind, and the players sell every foul and contest every decision that goes against them.
With that being said, modern basketball is also stupidly hard to ref due to the speed of the game.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
The foul rule is set to 6 so that's it's 1 foul every 8 minutes (8*6 = 48)
that's why college basketball is 5 fouls, with two 20 minute halves (8*5 = 40)
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Not to mention being an old guy trying to get up the court with the best athletes in the world. If you've never sat up close at an NBA game, you have no idea how fast those guys are playing. Obviously the refs are all in really good shape, like amazing shape, but getting every foul called correctly? Yeah right.
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On June 16 2012 10:08 Leyra wrote:
My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did.
that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. And LeBron is a better defender than MJ so stop throwing his name around like it's some crutch for defensive standards.
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On June 16 2012 16:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 10:08 Leyra wrote:
My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did. that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. And LeBron is a better defender than MJ so stop throwing his name around like it's some crutch for defensive standards.
Jordan was 1988 DPOY btw. Averaged 37.5 ppg that season too.
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On June 17 2012 01:17 Chunhyang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 16:35 Ace wrote:On June 16 2012 10:08 Leyra wrote:
My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did. that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. And LeBron is a better defender than MJ so stop throwing his name around like it's some crutch for defensive standards. Jordan was 1988 DPOY btw. Averaged 37.5 ppg that season too.
?
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On June 16 2012 15:17 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 14:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Basketball is easily the hardest to ref mainstream sport.
It doesn't come anywhere close to soccer. Much bigger field of play, more players, no video review or technology of any kind, and the players sell every foul and contest every decision that goes against them. With that being said, modern basketball is also stupidly hard to ref due to the speed of the game.
Anywhere close?..
Come on. I've played plenty of soccer and watched it for years. You can make a claim that the cost of refs mistake is generally higher in soccer, since one goal can decide the outcome, but reffing itself is light years behind basketball in complexity. It is usually not that hard to see contact on a tackle, whether it hit the ball or the ankle first, also a lot of contact doesn't get called period, because it is allowed. Soccer has nothing like drives to the basket where you can't touch the person driving or get a call against you if your feet are misplaced or sometimes if your defensive motions look 'bad'. In bball everything is just quicker and the attention needs to be there nonstop. In soccer refs can actually err on the side of not calling and not get any flak for that, most outrage comes from them making a call where it wasn't deserved, i.e. penalties and red (2nd yellow) cards, which is game-changing.
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On June 17 2012 01:17 Chunhyang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 16:35 Ace wrote:On June 16 2012 10:08 Leyra wrote:
My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did. that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. And LeBron is a better defender than MJ so stop throwing his name around like it's some crutch for defensive standards. Jordan was 1988 DPOY btw. Averaged 37.5 ppg that season too.
we're talking about defense, not offense. 37.5ppg is impressive but it's completely unrelated.
i agree with ace in that lebron is a better defender than jordan.
chunhyang - did you watch basketball during jordan's era? or are you just pulling out some statistics? pippen was a much better defender than jordan imo. in fact, i would probably put him really up there as one of the all time great defenders
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On June 17 2012 01:56 ecstatica wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 15:17 city42 wrote:On June 16 2012 14:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Basketball is easily the hardest to ref mainstream sport.
It doesn't come anywhere close to soccer. Much bigger field of play, more players, no video review or technology of any kind, and the players sell every foul and contest every decision that goes against them. With that being said, modern basketball is also stupidly hard to ref due to the speed of the game. Anywhere close?.. Come on. I've played plenty of soccer and watched it for years. You can make a claim that the cost of refs mistake is generally higher in soccer, since one goal can decide the outcome, but reffing itself is light years behind basketball in complexity. It is usually not that hard to see contact on a tackle, whether it hit the ball or the ankle first, also a lot of contact doesn't get called period, because it is allowed. Soccer has nothing like drives to the basket where you can't touch the person driving or get a call against you if your feet are misplaced or sometimes if your defensive motions look 'bad'. In bball everything is just quicker and the attention needs to be there nonstop. In soccer refs can actually err on the side of not calling and not get any flak for that, most outrage comes from them making a call where it wasn't deserved, i.e. penalties and red (2nd yellow) cards, which is game-changing.
Meh, I think its hard to compare the two. Basketball refs dont have as much space to cover either and don't have to make decisions on their own as much. And a good soccer ref has to read the situation and decide what to call, recognize situations where letting the team getting fouled playing on is more benificial for them and so on. I agree that there are parts of basketball that are as hard to judge , but as I said, kind of weird to compare refs in two completely different games.
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On June 17 2012 02:01 BlueRoyaL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 01:17 Chunhyang wrote:On June 16 2012 16:35 Ace wrote:On June 16 2012 10:08 Leyra wrote:
My silly solution for the NBA (A little silly, but a little smart).
Step 1. No more preferential treatment for stars (If you don't think stars get the benefit, you're dumb)
Step 2. No more DQ at 6 fouls.
Step 3. Every foul from 6 up is a 1shot technical and retain the ball (as in if your team is on offense, and you get fouled, you shoot 1 and keep the ball)
Step 4. Maybe even add something like 8th foul is shooting 2, or something.
Essentially make a huge penalty for every foul after 6, but not remove players from the game. I hate watching games where the stars can't play because of foul trouble, but I hate even more watching Lebron James average less than 2 fouls per game, which even MJ never did. that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. And LeBron is a better defender than MJ so stop throwing his name around like it's some crutch for defensive standards. Jordan was 1988 DPOY btw. Averaged 37.5 ppg that season too. we're talking about defense, not offense. 37.5ppg is impressive but it's completely unrelated. i agree with ace in that lebron is a better defender than jordan. chunhyang - did you watch basketball during jordan's era? or are you just pulling out some statistics? pippen was a much better defender than jordan imo. in fact, i would probably put him really up there as one of the all time great defenders
It betrays my age. Yes, I watched. I know it's a different era; I didn't say otherwise. This is more a defense of Jordan than an assessment of Lebron. The point of my post is that Jordan was considered the best defender in the league at a time when the bad boys were up. To say that Jordan's defense is a "crutch" for defensive standards is insulting to him.
The point of 37.5 ppg means that he did it without being a defensive specialist too. How is that not clear to y'all?
I hate Leyra's insinuation that Lebron is favored and that's why he doesn't get called for fouls. He's a great defender. But these playoffs, MIA has been consciously trying to preserve him, foul and energy-wise, and that's why his fouls are low, not some goddamn Stern-piracy.
EDIT: That's arguable, about Pippen being a better defender than Jordan. I'd still put Rodman above them both.
EDIT2: Preserve him on defense. On offense, he's that candle that holds the wick that is burned by the flame that produced the Heat.
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This is the last thing I'm going to say on the subject:
Bad calls are made in the game and there's nothing you can do about it and you have to live with it. But your attempts at justification are idiotic. A bad call is a bad call is a bad call is a bad call.
Fuck.
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EPT
