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On April 08 2012 21:20 Cocoba wrote:
There are maps that do already have save integrated. So why not make standard MLG, GSL, etc. maps come with these sorts of things. Although I do believe Blizzard should step it up, we, as a community, can step it up and do it ourselves.
If there are expert UMS map makers out there that know if this can or can't be done, please speak out.
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I said the concept isn't hard to think up, I didn't say it isn't hard to implement, I really have no idea how the program of battle.net is written, but I am sure it is a solvable issue, hard maybe, but still doable. And after what happened, and with the embarrassment of being right there during a crucial match of a final I hope Mike and Dustin take the issue seriously enough to direct some resources to solving the problem.
They did announce they want to improve Battle.net in patch 1.5 in various ways, hopefully this issue will now get a high priority.
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On April 08 2012 21:17 Bommes wrote:
Blizzard just HAS to change their main concepts for the future, or Starcraft will be a niche esports game and not THE esports game like BW was.
They always said the fusion with Activision does nothing to their mentality and their concepts for the fans. The fusion with Activision is just business related and they have no impact on anything related to developing the games they said.
Yet I see more and more Activision everywhere.
Well they HAVE changed their main concepts. They realized that, while BW was THE number one game in esports, they didnt earn a cent. Some years ago, they invented WoW, the monthly money-machine. And with the relatively new concept of DLC at hand, they realized that selling a great game once might make them famous, but not rich. They would only earn big money by constantly giving the gamers content one piece at a time (read: WoL, HotS...). To circumvent all problems with IP rights etc. (think of what would happen in China if SC2 became a big thing there without intrinsic control) they just copied the WoW-concept. Just without the monthly payment.
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It would be a bit weird if Blizzard only limited the save function to tournaments though.
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On April 08 2012 20:57 jdobrev wrote:
you can already do that in Warcraft 3, it shouldn't be too hard.
(player disconnects but you save game so you can reload and continue)
This. It's just sad that wc3 and brood war were so much superior when it comes to functionality. I'm sick of companies who screw over their paying customers to prevent some people from pirating their product (which is never gonna succeed anyway).
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On April 08 2012 21:31 Adventurekid wrote:
It would be a bit weird if Blizzard only limited the save function to tournaments though.
I don't see why they wouldn't do it for the game in general. Just add this option in user settings or maybe pop up a dialogue when a user drops to save the game. It's good for everyone, not just tournaments.
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I read a discussion on this on the blizzard forums shortly after sc2 came out and the consensus at the time at least seemed to be that such an autosave system would be entirely non-trivial, technically speaking. So not expecting to see it soon. If that was the problem they wanted to solve a LAN version of some kind would be more straight-forward. For myself I think they should have gone the option for a sort of specially licensed LAN version that tournaments could pay to use, even if they had to do something crazy like have Blizz officials in black suits with sunglasses install the hardware for them. Doesn't seem likely at this point however.
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That would actually be a great solution, but as we know Blizzard lacks the effort when it comes to supporting Esports.
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On April 08 2012 21:34 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 21:31 Adventurekid wrote:
It would be a bit weird if Blizzard only limited the save function to tournaments though. I don't see why they wouldn't do it for the game in general. Just add this option in user settings or maybe pop up a dialogue when a user drops to save the game. It's good for everyone, not just tournaments.
Exactly!
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On April 08 2012 21:38 Cloudsong wrote:
That would actually be a great solution, but as we know Blizzard lacks the effort when it comes to supporting Esports.
But I think Blizzard sees $$$ in E-Sports now  Plus, adding a feature like this only helps their sales for the next two expansions of SC2.
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On April 08 2012 19:15 ki11z0ne wrote:
they care... if they didnt they would not have a balancing team... idk people need top widen there perspective a lil.... its understandable why their is no LAN on sc2, and its fine with me
They care...about $$. People need to start to realize this, nothing good comes from being naive. They have balance teams because people won't buy an unbalanced game - therefore less money to their pockets. Does a lack of LAN and/or match-saving option affects their income? Not in a slightest.
Their main income comes from casual gamers (copies of games bought). Does those people think about lan and match-saving before they spend their money on the game? Were You hasitating before buying SC2 because of lack of LAN/match-saving? You know it , and Blizzard knows it - NO, YOU WERE NOT. Because You don't need those feauters to enjoy the game.
E-Sports needs LAN and match-saving. It needs it because there is a lot of money on the line. Because such situations like yesterday's GSTL make this whole thing look very unprofessional. But does it affect Blizzard's pockets in any way? Aren't there more and more tournaments, with bigger and bigger prize pools, more fans, more pro-gamers, more growth as a whole despite the lack of LAN/match saving? You don't need to be a genius to see how it works. They don't implement LAN/match saving and still get more and more $$.
In this case, why would a person responsible for implementing those features care to make such a decision? Because sometimes a match get interrupted? Like, 0.1% of times? 'Is this a reason why i should put myself in danger of loosing my money? In a place when i can no longer control what happen to SC? Like it was with KESPA?'
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I actually tweeted rob simpson about this yesterday. For anyone that's reading/posting in this thread and wants an answer/blizzard to get on this, I suggest doing the same. Let's make this happen guys!
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Creating a file that can be reloaded that maintains fog of war, mineral counts, unit position, and can be simultaneously joined by not only the players but observers is more complicated then anyone thinks.
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On April 08 2012 21:40 Haydin wrote:
I actually tweeted rob simpson about this yesterday. For anyone that's reading/posting in this thread and wants an answer/blizzard to get on this, I suggest doing the same. Let's make this happen guys!
Thanks Haydin! Can you post Rob Simpson's Twitter address? What about Mike Morhaime and Dustin Bowder? Let's get this done - if it is easy for the progamming team to do, we want this feature ASAP.
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Just to give you a perspective on how realistic it is that SC2 gets LAN/Autosave whatever:
From an interview with Justin Browder:
-And what about the situation where you have a tournament where everyone is on one DSL line? Internet play would be impossible there - there was a "pseudo-LAN" solution mentioned where you'd be connected directly as long as there was some sort of internet connection, is that still in the cards?
I believe so. We're still looking at tournament solutions, we don't know what our final set of solutions will be, but we're actively looking for something that will allow that situation to be a lot more positive experience. We've gotten a ton of feedback, we've heard that even that solution that you mentioned isn't enough, I don't know what the final form will look like, how that will finally shake out - but we're really aware of the problem, and we've heard the feedback, and we're trying to deal with it.
--------
The interview was published in April of 2010. Two years ago. Look at where we are now.
Source:Warcry.com: Designing StarCraft II: An Interview With Blizzard's Dustin Browder
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On April 08 2012 21:41 FatkiddsLag wrote:
Creating a file that can be reloaded that maintains fog of war, mineral counts, unit position, and can be simultaneously joined by not only the players but observers is more complicated then anyone thinks.
I'm not an expert on this, but what about UMS maps? Aren't UMS maps nothing more than different scenarios where players can join? Can the map modding community even do a fix for this?
The point is, let's get Blizzard aware of this issue and that we as a community want a solution to this. Even if we get a fix to this by HoTS, that's better than no fix at all for the next several years.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2012 21:43 hegeo wrote:Just to give you a perspective on how realistic it is that SC2 gets LAN/Autosave whatever: From an interview with Justin Browder:
-And what about the situation where you have a tournament where everyone is on one DSL line? Internet play would be impossible there - there was a "pseudo-LAN" solution mentioned where you'd be connected directly as long as there was some sort of internet connection, is that still in the cards? I believe so. We're still looking at tournament solutions, we don't know what our final set of solutions will be, but we're actively looking for something that will allow that situation to be a lot more positive experience. We've gotten a ton of feedback, we've heard that even that solution that you mentioned isn't enough, I don't know what the final form will look like, how that will finally shake out - but we're really aware of the problem, and we've heard the feedback, and we're trying to deal with it. -------- The interview was published in April of 2010. Two years ago. Look at where we are now. Source: Warcry.com: Designing StarCraft II: An Interview With Blizzard's Dustin Browder
Seems like they forgotten about that.
btw, this seems awesome; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306069
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Great idea, seems like a good compromise to them bitching out about LAN.
Civ 5 has this function, you can literally save game, log off, take a nap and come back. Granted you have to manually save, but surely it wouldn't be too hard to have it auto save, or for the option for an observer to save it once someone starts lagging out.
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On April 08 2012 21:43 hegeo wrote:Just to give you a perspective on how realistic it is that SC2 gets LAN/Autosave whatever: From an interview with Justin Browder:
-And what about the situation where you have a tournament where everyone is on one DSL line? Internet play would be impossible there - there was a "pseudo-LAN" solution mentioned where you'd be connected directly as long as there was some sort of internet connection, is that still in the cards? I believe so. We're still looking at tournament solutions, we don't know what our final set of solutions will be, but we're actively looking for something that will allow that situation to be a lot more positive experience. We've gotten a ton of feedback, we've heard that even that solution that you mentioned isn't enough, I don't know what the final form will look like, how that will finally shake out - but we're really aware of the problem, and we've heard the feedback, and we're trying to deal with it. -------- The interview was published in April of 2010. Two years ago. Look at where we are now. Source: Warcry.com: Designing StarCraft II: An Interview With Blizzard's Dustin Browder
Yeah, I can't believe SC2, including the BETA, has been out for 2 years and nothing has been done about this. We've had regames before, but it took a regame in a major tournament where the CEO of Blizzard was present to see how pathetic their software is. I hope Blizzard makes this a priority again.
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On April 08 2012 21:41 FatkiddsLag wrote:
Creating a file that can be reloaded that maintains fog of war, mineral counts, unit position, and can be simultaneously joined by not only the players but observers is more complicated then anyone thinks.
LOL. All computer games on this world have save option. Its incredibly easy to implement. Think of it as a save option in starcraft campaign. You open the file that as you said "can be reloaded that maintains fog of war, mineral counts, unit position". You join the game. You are the host. And You control terran units. Do You really think that its hard now, for other player to join this game and control other units? No, its just so simple that can be implemented in a hour.
If this was a case, there would be no replays, because its exactly the same thing without an option to control those units. Many game programmers said already, its simplier to make then you think. And not to mention, Blizzard already made match-saving in previous games. So...i guess...its not complicated at all...
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EPT
