|
On April 08 2012 20:57 FeyFey wrote:
how about instead of ranting you suggest the tournaments to add autosave options to their maps, which is do it once then copy paste. As you dislike regames (editor makes that possible fairly easily). I personally don't mind seeing another awesome game.
Anyway saving in an rts does a nice amount of lag. And since it has to be stored somewhere reachable, well not a problem in tournaments.
I don't see a good solution to this really, even allowing to reconnect has some issues. So Admin decision imo best way to do it.
Can this be done? I don't know what the capability of UMS is. Are there any experts with UMS that know if this can be done?
|
On April 08 2012 20:55 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 20:54 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On April 08 2012 20:11 MrHoon wrote:
i just feel like Valve did a much better job at dota 2 than blizzard did on SC2 in terms of online connectivity.
Reconnecting is something I really want on every online game now, it's such an amazing feature
If there never was a reconnecting feature I don't know how many games of dota 2 i would've lost with an abandon I can see how reconnecting can work in Dota, but in SC2? The time you're disconnected you're basically a sitting duck. Half the time you'll reconnect to your base in ruins. Also the last thing I want it to have to wait for someone to lag out, then the reconnect, then lag out again, then connect again.... etc. For competitive play, it would mean that one would pause when one drops, wait till he reconnects, then resume the game. Dota 2 also allows you to pull save files from a certain time mark, so if a crucial fight happened and large amount of lag occured, they can just load the save file before that big fight ocurred.
Ok that'd work. How often is just one player a problem though at a tournament? If the link to Bnet goes down it'd affect both players. To restart from that, you'd need the client to save the game state (ala replays). Is that what people are talking about.?
|
Don't see why it isn't possible. We need to actively lobby for this. Just hurts to see players robbed of their victories due to technical issues.
|
On April 08 2012 19:17 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 19:15 ki11z0ne wrote:
they care... if they didnt they would not have a balancing team... idk people need top widen there perspective a lil.... its understandable why their is no LAN on sc2, and its fine with me
Yes...because no LAN reduced the amount of piracy. Oh wait...
Oh wait what? It did.
|
On April 08 2012 21:02 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 20:26 Otolia wrote:On April 08 2012 19:17 StarcraftMan wrote:On April 08 2012 19:14 tomatriedes wrote:
Completely agree with this, though I'm not a programmer so I don't know how difficult it would be to implement. I don't think it's very hard for Blizzard to implement. I'm a programmer and all they have to do is a data dump to a file when the person drops out (they don't even have to save the map until a person drops out). Then they would need to tweak the code to allow the map to be reloaded with all parties in the lobby. It's easy to do for them - they could probably even add this functionality in the next patch. I guess you saw the source code for the engine right ? Gotta love the armchair experts hey. The amount of times I said, "should be simple, all I have to do is this" while programming only to have the problem expand and expand wildly beyond my first estimates are beyond count.
Exactly. Fixing this so it works within their current system might not be possible. It is not like Blizzard knew that Esports was going to take off when they released the game in July of 2010. Programming it hard and they would need to make sure the system worked well. Its not just saving the half finished game, it is making a place for the game to be stored, options in a lobby a file time to search for and so on.
And we are never getting LAN. Kespa claiming the BW was part of the public domain and the 1000s of free copies of BW took care of that.
|
This incident at the GSTL, with Browder, Morhaime and Segaty attending, is hopefully the turning point. We do need the option to save a custom game and use savegames to continue a match which was disconnected. Saved games are useful for other things, too (practice certain situations versus a friend.)
|
On April 08 2012 21:08 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 19:17 writer22816 wrote:On April 08 2012 19:15 ki11z0ne wrote:
they care... if they didnt they would not have a balancing team... idk people need top widen there perspective a lil.... its understandable why their is no LAN on sc2, and its fine with me
Yes...because no LAN reduced the amount of piracy. Oh wait... Oh wait what? It did.
We can all agree that you can't play pirated games online nowadays, right? No matter what sort of DRM they use.
Given that you can pirate sc2 and play vs AI, all the campaign, tutorials, challenge map etc. pp., running everything over b.net didn't do shit for piracy. All that it did was give every single tournament these sort of issues. Besides no lan is mainly thanks to kespa and chinese pc bangs, which used pirated versions of bw.
That asside real lan is probably impossible to do without releasing a >2 GB patch for WoL, what they can do though is give us shit like save game and blabla, and especially give lan with hots.
|
Blizzard wont do anything that they will not gain money from. Maybe they have a technological hole now that their current programmers don't know how to implement such save feature. Maybe they are saving the feature to be released on a future expansion to get lost fans back.
One thing is sure that they will not give any tournaments the LAN feature. Piracy is not the only reason Blizzard decided not to give LAN, as currently there even are pirated versions of SC2 with the LAN implemented. Maybe even greater reason Blizzard did not include LAN is so major tournaments could not use it. Blizzard got sick from Kespa for not paying them royalities for using Blizzard games for commercial purposes. To ensure such things wont happen in the future, Blizzard wants the power to instantly shut down any tournament game via Bnet if they have disagreements of the royalities they should pay Blizzard.
|
On April 08 2012 21:12 [F_]aths wrote:
This incident at the GSTL, with Browder, Morhaime and Segaty attending, is hopefully the turning point. We do need the option to save a custom game and use savegames to continue a match which was disconnected. Saved games are useful for other things, too (practice certain situations versus a friend.)
Was Browder and Segaty there too? I hope so and I hope they are embarassed about what happened.
|
Blizzard just HAS to change their main concepts for the future, or Starcraft will be a niche esports game and not THE esports game like BW was.
They always said the fusion with Activision does nothing to their mentality and their concepts for the fans. The fusion with Activision is just business related and they have no impact on anything related to developing the games they said.
Yet I see more and more Activision everywhere.
|
we dont have the technology yet
|
just make LAN software available only at tournaments. they sell or authorise to organisers for an event, and that's it.
|
4713 Posts
On April 08 2012 21:17 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 21:12 [F_]aths wrote:
This incident at the GSTL, with Browder, Morhaime and Segaty attending, is hopefully the turning point. We do need the option to save a custom game and use savegames to continue a match which was disconnected. Saved games are useful for other things, too (practice certain situations versus a friend.) Was Browder and Segaty there too? I hope so and I hope they are embarassed about what happened.
I don't know who Segaty is, but Browder was definitely there, the camera pointed him out in the game of Maru vs July, also Wolf and Khaldor shout outed him and Mike. There is also a picture of Mike and Dustin talking to each other embarrassed while the D/C was going on.
|
There are maps that do already have save integrated. So why not make standard MLG, GSL, etc. maps come with these sorts of things. Although I do believe Blizzard should step it up, we, as a community, can step it up and do it ourselves.
|
On April 08 2012 21:02 Destructicon wrote:While there is a chance they might never release LAN, the least they could do is implement a reliable way to reconnect/remake the game, I can guarantee that that would probably solve 99% of the problems a disconnect causes. It would no longer be a tragedy to D/C because you could reconnect or re-make the game from the point you left off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 20:54 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On April 08 2012 20:11 MrHoon wrote:
i just feel like Valve did a much better job at dota 2 than blizzard did on SC2 in terms of online connectivity.
Reconnecting is something I really want on every online game now, it's such an amazing feature
If there never was a reconnecting feature I don't know how many games of dota 2 i would've lost with an abandon I can see how reconnecting can work in Dota, but in SC2? The time you're disconnected you're basically a sitting duck. Half the time you'll reconnect to your base in ruins. Also the last thing I want it to have to wait for someone to lag out, then the reconnect, then lag out again, then connect again.... etc. Actually its quite easy to solve the reconnect issue, just force a pause in the game while the other player is connecting, the pause is done by the game and it can't be over-ridden by any player. Alternatively you have the option to remake the game, but with the option to start from the exact place you left off. And if you suspect a computer might still lag out, you wait it out until the techs fix it, and then reconnect/remake, it really isn't that hard to think up and would probably solve so many problems.
The idea seems quite simple. Implementing new features not already supported by the technology on a project as big as Starcraft 2 is not simple. I hope they spend time on it, but it's almost rude to naively proclaim the work trivial.
On April 08 2012 21:03 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 20:57 FeyFey wrote:
how about instead of ranting you suggest the tournaments to add autosave options to their maps, which is do it once then copy paste. As you dislike regames (editor makes that possible fairly easily). I personally don't mind seeing another awesome game.
Anyway saving in an rts does a nice amount of lag. And since it has to be stored somewhere reachable, well not a problem in tournaments.
I don't see a good solution to this really, even allowing to reconnect has some issues. So Admin decision imo best way to do it.
Can this be done? I don't know what the capability of UMS is. Are there any experts with UMS that know if this can be done?
Gamestates can be fairly accurately recorded into memory while a game is running. This means that as long as the individual game is uninterrupted, you can recall back to an earlier time with the right mod.
Passing data from an interrupted game to a new game to reload the gamestate would require writing and reading to/from a file. The only types of files you can access this way through a UMS are bank files, which are woefully inadequate for holding the type of data a replay holds.
Cannot be done without Blizzard's help.
|
On April 08 2012 21:20 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 21:17 StarcraftMan wrote:On April 08 2012 21:12 [F_]aths wrote:
This incident at the GSTL, with Browder, Morhaime and Segaty attending, is hopefully the turning point. We do need the option to save a custom game and use savegames to continue a match which was disconnected. Saved games are useful for other things, too (practice certain situations versus a friend.) Was Browder and Segaty there too? I hope so and I hope they are embarassed about what happened. I don't know who Segaty is, but Browder was definitely there, the camera pointed him out in the game of Maru vs July, also Wolf and Khaldor shout outed him and Mike. There is also a picture of Mike and Dustin talking to each other embarrassed while the D/C was going on.
I am sure they would love to fix it and I wouldn't doubt there is stuff coming in HotS. But if you read the news about Diablo 3, it sounds like Blizzard was and is all hands on deck to get that game out the door by May. They are huge, but they make huge games.
|
On April 08 2012 21:14 Sea_Food wrote:
Blizzard wont do anything that they will not gain money from.
But Blizzard does make money from SC2 as an e-sports now and they know the potential $$$ of the SC2 esports scene growing. Blizzard can demand royalties from tournaments, especially major tournaments like GSL, IPL, MLG, etc. Now even Kespa wants to swtich over to SC2 - yet more $$$ for Blizzard. While we are not there yet, imagine if one day, ESPN decides to broadcast SC2 tournaments? That's even more $$$ for Blizzard.
A simple feature like saving the game when a player disconnects would make SC2 look that much better in the e-sports scene. This is just a win-win for Blizzard. Hey, I'm not for giving Blizzard more money, but at the same time, I feel bad for players that have to do a regame, especially if one player had a clear advantage.
|
It's probably on their long laundry list of things to add into the game, but most likely lower than stuff like replay sharing and that map marketplace idea. I wouldn't be surprised if they add the feature in the future, but it will be a long ways away from now if they do.
Maybe this scandal will convince Blizzard to move the feature up their laundry list, but I doubt they will suddenly drop work on all of their other in-progress features to urgently work on a re-game feature.
|
On April 08 2012 21:20 Destructicon wrote:
[There is also a picture of Mike and Dustin talking to each other embarrassed while the D/C was going on.
Oh man, I hope so! I really hope Mike Morhaime and Dustin Bowder fix this issue. Regame in a major tournament because your software sucks should shame the both of them into doing something about this.
|
It would be even better if they could extend the replay function so that you can start a game at any given point from the actions in the replay. This would have the extended benefit of practicing a certain situation more efficiently and you could experiment with decision making to a given strategy more easily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
