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Bully Victim stabbed Bully to Death - Page 29

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jungsu
Profile Joined February 2010
United States279 Posts
January 10 2012 14:58 GMT
#561
That bullying over time must have sharpened his resolve to defend himself.
go nony
aderum
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden1459 Posts
January 10 2012 14:59 GMT
#562
This story is just very sad and depressing, why cant we all be friends
Crazy people dont sit around and wonder if they are insane
MavivaM
Profile Joined November 2011
1535 Posts
January 10 2012 15:00 GMT
#563
I find impossible for someone to say "oh, the bully had it coming so who cares. If anything, hooray since there's a bad guy less in town"

Guys, we are not talking about countries in a civil war where respect and humanity are, more often, a luxury than a right.
We are talking about a country where most of the people should live at least decently, where laws can help you and where people can find better solutions than killing people.

If you carry a weapon with yourself you are ready to use it, period.
And if you use a weapon, you should be fully aware of what it implies.

There are several ways to solve bullying problems or at least to oppose to them: there are teachers and parents.
If you feel ashamed of calling them there are friends.
And even if you feel that you have to fight back since sometimes violence can't be avoided, there are better ways than stabbing people.

Usually bullies can be cruel, but they aren't omnipotent.
If not only because they live up to specific social standards that can be exploited, or because often they are easily scared by people who fight back.
One can say that "man up" is the right solution, if something right exists.

This kid can have all of my sympathy, it must have been extremely hard for him to live like that.
But the moment he decided to carry a weapon with him, or the moment he decided to stab the other boy he stepped on a level several times worse than the one of the bully.

People shouldn't get shit everyday.
Some people shouldn't be humiliated, beaten, made fun of just for being themselves.
It's not the way the world should work, but that's how it is.
I think that laws sometimes can be a valid tool to change this course of the things, and if someone want to tell me that I am too idealistic... please let me tell you one more thing.

People shouldn't get shit everyday and so on, but in the unpleaseant possibility of this event people are supposed to grow up, face their problems and eventually solve them.
Not carrying a weapon and then saying to themselves "Oh well, I am being bullied and life sucks, but instead of trying to solve my problems with a different approach I have bought this knife. If the bully comes to me I'll stab him in the stomach because after all he deserves it and I didn't ask for anything."

It's pretty obvious that the bully will come and I can't believe that this kid couldn't know it. After all if someone never reacts before I don't see why he should do otherwise.
He didn't follow the bully in a dark alley to stab him, but this is homicide anyways.

Again I have a lot of sympathy for this kid, and as far as I can know according to a simple thread his fault was more being stupid, coward and desperate enough at the same time than anything else.
But no one forced him to buy a weapon and use it, and thanks to this there's a teen in a coffin and a couple of families destroyed.

The judge bullshitted her way to save this kid from prison since she knew that it would have been completely pointless if not dangerous for him... humanly I agree but it's not fair.
If you want to fight bullism you sentence bullies to civil volunteering and not letting a kid who has killed a bully go away unpunished.
What kind of message is that?
...or if you are a parent, you help your child making friends and grow up.

Seriously: some of us, probably a lot of us have faced some kind of troubles back at school.
Looking back at then, tell me that they weren't somehow solvable or that they didn't make you grow up a little...
Not pleaseant for sure, even I have some really hateful memories of my school period but back at then I fought back without killing anyone.
It would be nice to hear if there are any bullying victims here and how did they solve their problem.

Your Opinion has been counted. Only 3 more Opinions needed for a reddit thread.
Miss_Cleo
Profile Joined March 2010
United States406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:02:47
January 10 2012 15:01 GMT
#564
On January 10 2012 23:53 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:45 Miss_Cleo wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:40 Geiko wrote:
If this had been a normal guy walking in the streets and being assaulted by 10 strangers, everyone would have agreed that it was self defense.
The fact that he was a student and knew his aggressor somewhat makes it not okay to defend himself ?



Two different situations. Guy on the street really has no chance to avoid the assault. Jose was bullied for a year before this happened, more than enough time to seek help, and prevent things from escalating.


Self-defense isn't about what he could have done before hand, it's about a situation. At a certain time, he was being surrounded by 10 people that were physically threatening him, in the same way as a random guy on the street.

In one case, because you "could have done" something about it, you should let yourself get beat up, and in the other case it's ok to defend yourself ?



So Jose absolutely only had two choices: get beat up or stab someone to death?


And he knew enough about that certain time prior to it happening that he was able to take a knife with him on the day.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10696 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:03:50
January 10 2012 15:02 GMT
#565
On January 10 2012 23:54 Caryc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:46 Velr wrote:
He "rightfully" stabbed a guy 12 times?
Seriously, this kid needs help... I mean, what is the message this actually gives to all the bully victims?

Go stab your bullies, it's fine?


Oh what a bright future this will be...

not saying u r necessarily wrong with the stabbing 12 times statement (which is a problem but we dont know how it actually happened)

but what message would u prefer then?
go bullies,if u know ur victims just make them fear death all day everyday?

btw there is a difference between getting bullied (throwing pens..) and actually getting attacked..
what are you gonna tell the police?
"yeah that guy throws pens at me all the time,i guess he wants to kill me!"

not knowing every detail of the case i think its ok how it went.


Pens = Job of the teacher and you should be able to deal with this yourself....
Hitting and so on = Job of the Teacher/Parents/Police. It's for sure not your turn to stab the bully to death...

See, this guy knew in advance what would happen, he could have asked for help but instead he took a knive with him. This allready rules him out as a "pure" victim.
Shafanhow
Profile Joined December 2009
United States47 Posts
January 10 2012 15:02 GMT
#566
On January 10 2012 23:41 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious what the bus driver had been doing the whole time. From the sounds of it, Nuno and his friends were continually disruptive and shouldn't have been allowed on the bus anymore, and they had to have known Nuno was getting off at the wrong spot, purposefully to follow Saavedra.

Excellent point, also his being developmentally challenged is a salient point. Especially considering how all the people accusing the poor kid of murder seem to think he should have had crystal clear judgement about what to do as he got punched in the head while retreating.
Endeavor to persevere.
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:03:35
January 10 2012 15:02 GMT
#567
On January 10 2012 23:50 Shafanhow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:35 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:26 Shafanhow wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:21 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:02 Black[CAT] wrote:
On January 10 2012 22:53 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 22:48 Black[CAT] wrote:
The bully deserved to be killed. People like these are just waste of space.


so if your son/daughter was bullying some kid at school, you'd be totally fine if the kid turned around and stabbed your son/daughter in the neck?

the kid consciously KILLED the bully with the intention of killing him. of course it occurred to the kid that he could scare the bully or injure the bully with the weapon, but no he kept the weapon concealed and then stabbed to kill.... like a cold-blooded psycho.


I would be mad if my kid bullied someone. Besides, it was self defense. Being bullied for a year. That is really painful for that kid.

And honestly, if some d-bag just bullied people for years and no contribution to society, would you deem him worthy to live? Of course we should not judge who should live or die. That bully will prolly turn into some useless criminal in the end or just trash of society.


i haven't seen any evidence that shows that 100% of bullies have no contribution to society?

i can empathize with people who have been bullied, i was bullied (being threatened, punched, kicked etc) by a few during secondary school years. from the same people who were my good friends in early school. but i would never wish harm upon them, even in self defense..

i have this thing called 'guilt', which makes me different from the bully. but i guess the 'victim' in the news story didn't have that.

Turn the other cheek only goes so far. Not everyone is such a saint.The kid that was bullied was just an imperfect human being. Thankfully here in the US there are laws that allow a weak person being beaten and tormented to defend themselves when pushed to the brink. It's sad that the kid died, but it was a necessary evil.


a necessary evil for 'the greater good' ?

well other than being a famous quote by various fictitious supervillains, it doesn't mean much to me.

there have always been bullies, there will always be bullies. some kids don't mix well with other kids. it's not their fault that they're forced by law to mix with other kids.

at the end of the day, bullies don't deserve any sympathy. but if they get murdered, they're not a bully anymore... they're just a dead kid like any other dead kid.

Not just like any other dead kid, this kid being dead means that he won't sadistically ruin the quality of god knows how many more poor unfortunates lives. Whether it's his "fault" or not is irrelevant. I'd rather he could change. Obviously he enjoyed what he was doing to much to change because he did it for a year, just in this case.


well having read a longer version of this story... this is clearly not the case.

the kid who died was not a long-time bully of the 'victim'. he was a popular kid who was mean to the freshman kids. people testified saying he did not want to fight, but one thing led to another and he punched the kid on the back of the head... and he gets stabbed to death in retaliation.

YAY... SCORE ONE FOR THE BULLY VICTIM! or not.

in this case, the 'victim' could quite easily be the bully. the murderer seems like a deeply disturbed person.... and his family/friends should keep a close eye on him. from my POV he's quite literally got away with murder.
Miss_Cleo
Profile Joined March 2010
United States406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:08:35
January 10 2012 15:04 GMT
#568
On January 11 2012 00:02 shizna wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:50 Shafanhow wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:35 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:26 Shafanhow wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:21 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:02 Black[CAT] wrote:
On January 10 2012 22:53 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 22:48 Black[CAT] wrote:
The bully deserved to be killed. People like these are just waste of space.


so if your son/daughter was bullying some kid at school, you'd be totally fine if the kid turned around and stabbed your son/daughter in the neck?

the kid consciously KILLED the bully with the intention of killing him. of course it occurred to the kid that he could scare the bully or injure the bully with the weapon, but no he kept the weapon concealed and then stabbed to kill.... like a cold-blooded psycho.


I would be mad if my kid bullied someone. Besides, it was self defense. Being bullied for a year. That is really painful for that kid.

And honestly, if some d-bag just bullied people for years and no contribution to society, would you deem him worthy to live? Of course we should not judge who should live or die. That bully will prolly turn into some useless criminal in the end or just trash of society.


i haven't seen any evidence that shows that 100% of bullies have no contribution to society?

i can empathize with people who have been bullied, i was bullied (being threatened, punched, kicked etc) by a few during secondary school years. from the same people who were my good friends in early school. but i would never wish harm upon them, even in self defense..

i have this thing called 'guilt', which makes me different from the bully. but i guess the 'victim' in the news story didn't have that.

Turn the other cheek only goes so far. Not everyone is such a saint.The kid that was bullied was just an imperfect human being. Thankfully here in the US there are laws that allow a weak person being beaten and tormented to defend themselves when pushed to the brink. It's sad that the kid died, but it was a necessary evil.


a necessary evil for 'the greater good' ?

well other than being a famous quote by various fictitious supervillains, it doesn't mean much to me.

there have always been bullies, there will always be bullies. some kids don't mix well with other kids. it's not their fault that they're forced by law to mix with other kids.

at the end of the day, bullies don't deserve any sympathy. but if they get murdered, they're not a bully anymore... they're just a dead kid like any other dead kid.

Not just like any other dead kid, this kid being dead means that he won't sadistically ruin the quality of god knows how many more poor unfortunates lives. Whether it's his "fault" or not is irrelevant. I'd rather he could change. Obviously he enjoyed what he was doing to much to change because he did it for a year, just in this case.


well having read a longer version of this story... this is clearly not the case.

the kid who died was not a long-time bully of the 'victim'. he was a popular kid who was mean to the freshman kids. people testified saying he did not want to fight, but one thing led to another and he punched the kid on the back of the head... and he gets stabbed to death in retaliation.

YAY... SCORE ONE FOR THE BULLY VICTIM! or not.

in this case, the 'victim' could quite easily be the bully. the murderer seems like a deeply disturbed person.... and his family/friends should keep a close eye on him. from my POV he's quite literally got away with murder.


We might have a winner here.
PJFrylar
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States350 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:06:20
January 10 2012 15:05 GMT
#569
Eh nvm, I dun really want to get into this on second thought.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:18:07
January 10 2012 15:06 GMT
#570
Justifiable self-defense, sickening apathy toward the human life- bullied and the bully. To frame the situation on another words, these people who triumphantly rejoice at the death would by extension injudiciously hand death penalty to anyone who committed any crime equal to or greater than act of the bullying. I just might be able to accept this particular case of stabbing should not be punishable, but that does not mean I have to freaking ravish over how the attack was awesome, the divine hammer of retribution.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
Miss_Cleo
Profile Joined March 2010
United States406 Posts
January 10 2012 15:07 GMT
#571
On January 11 2012 00:00 MavivaM wrote:
I find impossible for someone to say "oh, the bully had it coming so who cares. If anything, hooray since there's a bad guy less in town"

Guys, we are not talking about countries in a civil war where respect and humanity are, more often, a luxury than a right.
We are talking about a country where most of the people should live at least decently, where laws can help you and where people can find better solutions than killing people.

If you carry a weapon with yourself you are ready to use it, period.
And if you use a weapon, you should be fully aware of what it implies.

There are several ways to solve bullying problems or at least to oppose to them: there are teachers and parents.
If you feel ashamed of calling them there are friends.
And even if you feel that you have to fight back since sometimes violence can't be avoided, there are better ways than stabbing people.

Usually bullies can be cruel, but they aren't omnipotent.
If not only because they live up to specific social standards that can be exploited, or because often they are easily scared by people who fight back.
One can say that "man up" is the right solution, if something right exists.

This kid can have all of my sympathy, it must have been extremely hard for him to live like that.
But the moment he decided to carry a weapon with him, or the moment he decided to stab the other boy he stepped on a level several times worse than the one of the bully.

People shouldn't get shit everyday.
Some people shouldn't be humiliated, beaten, made fun of just for being themselves.
It's not the way the world should work, but that's how it is.
I think that laws sometimes can be a valid tool to change this course of the things, and if someone want to tell me that I am too idealistic... please let me tell you one more thing.

People shouldn't get shit everyday and so on, but in the unpleaseant possibility of this event people are supposed to grow up, face their problems and eventually solve them.
Not carrying a weapon and then saying to themselves "Oh well, I am being bullied and life sucks, but instead of trying to solve my problems with a different approach I have bought this knife. If the bully comes to me I'll stab him in the stomach because after all he deserves it and I didn't ask for anything."

It's pretty obvious that the bully will come and I can't believe that this kid couldn't know it. After all if someone never reacts before I don't see why he should do otherwise.
He didn't follow the bully in a dark alley to stab him, but this is homicide anyways.

Again I have a lot of sympathy for this kid, and as far as I can know according to a simple thread his fault was more being stupid, coward and desperate enough at the same time than anything else.
But no one forced him to buy a weapon and use it, and thanks to this there's a teen in a coffin and a couple of families destroyed.

The judge bullshitted her way to save this kid from prison since she knew that it would have been completely pointless if not dangerous for him... humanly I agree but it's not fair.
If you want to fight bullism you sentence bullies to civil volunteering and not letting a kid who has killed a bully go away unpunished.
What kind of message is that?
...or if you are a parent, you help your child making friends and grow up.

Seriously: some of us, probably a lot of us have faced some kind of troubles back at school.
Looking back at then, tell me that they weren't somehow solvable or that they didn't make you grow up a little...
Not pleaseant for sure, even I have some really hateful memories of my school period but back at then I fought back without killing anyone.
It would be nice to hear if there are any bullying victims here and how did they solve their problem.


Good perspective on things, that's the way I feel.
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France1939 Posts
January 10 2012 15:09 GMT
#572
On January 11 2012 00:01 Miss_Cleo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:53 Geiko wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:45 Miss_Cleo wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:40 Geiko wrote:
If this had been a normal guy walking in the streets and being assaulted by 10 strangers, everyone would have agreed that it was self defense.
The fact that he was a student and knew his aggressor somewhat makes it not okay to defend himself ?



Two different situations. Guy on the street really has no chance to avoid the assault. Jose was bullied for a year before this happened, more than enough time to seek help, and prevent things from escalating.


Self-defense isn't about what he could have done before hand, it's about a situation. At a certain time, he was being surrounded by 10 people that were physically threatening him, in the same way as a random guy on the street.

In one case, because you "could have done" something about it, you should let yourself get beat up, and in the other case it's ok to defend yourself ?



So Jose absolutely only had two choices: get beat up or stab someone to death?


And he knew enough about that certain time prior to it happening that he was able to take a knife with him on the day.



That's not what I said.

I said that the two situations are exactly the same in terms of self-defense laws as in both cases, a persons finds himself in an equally threatening situation and defends himself (regardless of what he could have done to prevent it and regardless of what kind of weapon he was carrying and why he was carrying it).

geiko.813 (EU)
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:17:35
January 10 2012 15:15 GMT
#573
On January 11 2012 00:01 Miss_Cleo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:53 Geiko wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:45 Miss_Cleo wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:40 Geiko wrote:
If this had been a normal guy walking in the streets and being assaulted by 10 strangers, everyone would have agreed that it was self defense.
The fact that he was a student and knew his aggressor somewhat makes it not okay to defend himself ?



Two different situations. Guy on the street really has no chance to avoid the assault. Jose was bullied for a year before this happened, more than enough time to seek help, and prevent things from escalating.


Self-defense isn't about what he could have done before hand, it's about a situation. At a certain time, he was being surrounded by 10 people that were physically threatening him, in the same way as a random guy on the street.

In one case, because you "could have done" something about it, you should let yourself get beat up, and in the other case it's ok to defend yourself ?



So Jose absolutely only had two choices: get beat up or stab someone to death?


And he knew enough about that certain time prior to it happening that he was able to take a knife with him on the day.

The fight was scheduled before hand. Both Saavedra and Nuno said on the bus that they didn't want to fight. To avoid it, instead of getting off at his normal spot, Saavedra got off with his friend and was planning to go to his house. Nuno's crew apparently noticed and followed him off at the spot.

He took a knife in self defense and tried two different ways to avoid the fight, first by changing bus stops and then by trying to walk away. When he changed bus stops, Nuno followed him. When he tried to walk away, Nuno hit him in the back of the head.

shizna, you've said a lot of stupid things in this thread but "one thing led to another" is complete bullshit. The thing that led to another is Nuno's decision to initiate a "fight."
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44257 Posts
January 10 2012 15:15 GMT
#574
On January 10 2012 23:39 FunnyPicture wrote:
I think murder is murder, he clearly planned on it considering he brought a deadly weapon to school.


Did you read the article? He only used it once he was threatened repeatedly by a mob of kids, attacked, beaten severely, and needed to use it in self-defense. He almost certainly would have been killed if he hadn't used it.

It saved his life.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
January 10 2012 15:18 GMT
#575
On January 11 2012 00:00 MavivaM wrote:
I find impossible for someone to say "oh, the bully had it coming so who cares. If anything, hooray since there's a bad guy less in town"

Guys, we are not talking about countries in a civil war where respect and humanity are, more often, a luxury than a right.
We are talking about a country where most of the people should live at least decently, where laws can help you and where people can find better solutions than killing people.

If you carry a weapon with yourself you are ready to use it, period.
And if you use a weapon, you should be fully aware of what it implies.

There are several ways to solve bullying problems or at least to oppose to them: there are teachers and parents.
If you feel ashamed of calling them there are friends.
And even if you feel that you have to fight back since sometimes violence can't be avoided, there are better ways than stabbing people.

Usually bullies can be cruel, but they aren't omnipotent.
If not only because they live up to specific social standards that can be exploited, or because often they are easily scared by people who fight back.
One can say that "man up" is the right solution, if something right exists.

This kid can have all of my sympathy, it must have been extremely hard for him to live like that.
But the moment he decided to carry a weapon with him, or the moment he decided to stab the other boy he stepped on a level several times worse than the one of the bully.

People shouldn't get shit everyday.
Some people shouldn't be humiliated, beaten, made fun of just for being themselves.
It's not the way the world should work, but that's how it is.
I think that laws sometimes can be a valid tool to change this course of the things, and if someone want to tell me that I am too idealistic... please let me tell you one more thing.

People shouldn't get shit everyday and so on, but in the unpleaseant possibility of this event people are supposed to grow up, face their problems and eventually solve them.
Not carrying a weapon and then saying to themselves "Oh well, I am being bullied and life sucks, but instead of trying to solve my problems with a different approach I have bought this knife. If the bully comes to me I'll stab him in the stomach because after all he deserves it and I didn't ask for anything."

It's pretty obvious that the bully will come and I can't believe that this kid couldn't know it. After all if someone never reacts before I don't see why he should do otherwise.
He didn't follow the bully in a dark alley to stab him, but this is homicide anyways.

Again I have a lot of sympathy for this kid, and as far as I can know according to a simple thread his fault was more being stupid, coward and desperate enough at the same time than anything else.
But no one forced him to buy a weapon and use it, and thanks to this there's a teen in a coffin and a couple of families destroyed.

The judge bullshitted her way to save this kid from prison since she knew that it would have been completely pointless if not dangerous for him... humanly I agree but it's not fair.
If you want to fight bullism you sentence bullies to civil volunteering and not letting a kid who has killed a bully go away unpunished.
What kind of message is that?
...or if you are a parent, you help your child making friends and grow up.

Seriously: some of us, probably a lot of us have faced some kind of troubles back at school.
Looking back at then, tell me that they weren't somehow solvable or that they didn't make you grow up a little...
Not pleaseant for sure, even I have some really hateful memories of my school period but back at then I fought back without killing anyone.
It would be nice to hear if there are any bullying victims here and how did they solve their problem.



Not everything is solvable. This attitude is what often stands in the way of kids actually getting the help they need. Teachers, parents and whatnot thinks it will just solve itself, or someone will solve it for them (it's just kids!!!11). I've seen several people in this thread putting the responsibility on the bullied kid to "get the help he needed." That might work in some cases, or even most, but not for all and the "handsoff approach" is what lead to these kind of situations.
Treva
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States533 Posts
January 10 2012 15:18 GMT
#576
Let me just say first off it's a sad story. However I think schools need a system with dealing with bullies and kids who are bullied. Some people think that bullying will stop when a kid tells a teacher but there are some examples in this very thread about how people have been told by people they have to entrust to just "grow up" or "don't tattle and deal with it, we're adults."

From this story it appears that this kid had been bullied his entire life, which is why he moved to the school he was in when this stabbing took place according to the article. Everytime something like this happens we say "Now people should take this seriously." but how do they do that. Bullied kids don't want to make things worse and I think a lot of times they are afraid that if they do in fact tell someone about it, their bully will find out and give them even more crap than before.

I think for stuff like this to stop bullied kids need to know of a safe way to let their story be heard and let appropriate action be taken. I don't know what that appropriate action is but since this school bully topic has come up a whole bunch this last year with more devastating results for either side, I think it's time for schools to start to get in place a program or system that allows people to stop this nonsense.

It's a shame this all happened the way it did, no one should bury their kid. However, this will send a pretty powerful message to kids who do taunt and pick on others to maybe reconsider. Sad.
Live it up.
Shafanhow
Profile Joined December 2009
United States47 Posts
January 10 2012 15:19 GMT
#577
On January 11 2012 00:02 shizna wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 23:50 Shafanhow wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:35 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:26 Shafanhow wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:21 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 23:02 Black[CAT] wrote:
On January 10 2012 22:53 shizna wrote:
On January 10 2012 22:48 Black[CAT] wrote:
The bully deserved to be killed. People like these are just waste of space.


so if your son/daughter was bullying some kid at school, you'd be totally fine if the kid turned around and stabbed your son/daughter in the neck?

the kid consciously KILLED the bully with the intention of killing him. of course it occurred to the kid that he could scare the bully or injure the bully with the weapon, but no he kept the weapon concealed and then stabbed to kill.... like a cold-blooded psycho.


I would be mad if my kid bullied someone. Besides, it was self defense. Being bullied for a year. That is really painful for that kid.

And honestly, if some d-bag just bullied people for years and no contribution to society, would you deem him worthy to live? Of course we should not judge who should live or die. That bully will prolly turn into some useless criminal in the end or just trash of society.


i haven't seen any evidence that shows that 100% of bullies have no contribution to society?

i can empathize with people who have been bullied, i was bullied (being threatened, punched, kicked etc) by a few during secondary school years. from the same people who were my good friends in early school. but i would never wish harm upon them, even in self defense..

i have this thing called 'guilt', which makes me different from the bully. but i guess the 'victim' in the news story didn't have that.

Turn the other cheek only goes so far. Not everyone is such a saint.The kid that was bullied was just an imperfect human being. Thankfully here in the US there are laws that allow a weak person being beaten and tormented to defend themselves when pushed to the brink. It's sad that the kid died, but it was a necessary evil.


a necessary evil for 'the greater good' ?

well other than being a famous quote by various fictitious supervillains, it doesn't mean much to me.

there have always been bullies, there will always be bullies. some kids don't mix well with other kids. it's not their fault that they're forced by law to mix with other kids.

at the end of the day, bullies don't deserve any sympathy. but if they get murdered, they're not a bully anymore... they're just a dead kid like any other dead kid.

Not just like any other dead kid, this kid being dead means that he won't sadistically ruin the quality of god knows how many more poor unfortunates lives. Whether it's his "fault" or not is irrelevant. I'd rather he could change. Obviously he enjoyed what he was doing to much to change because he did it for a year, just in this case.


well having read a longer version of this story... this is clearly not the case.

the kid who died was not a long-time bully of the 'victim'. he was a popular kid who was mean to the freshman kids. people testified saying he did not want to fight, but one thing led to another and he punched the kid on the back of the head... and he gets stabbed to death in retaliation.

YAY... SCORE ONE FOR THE BULLY VICTIM! or not.

in this case, the 'victim' could quite easily be the bully. the murderer seems like a deeply disturbed person.... and his family/friends should keep a close eye on him. from my POV he's quite literally got away with murder.

If the bully didn't want to fight why did he get of the bus to follow the kid? As far as what story is credible I'm going with the court investigation. According to that Jorge had been bullied by Dylan for at least a year. He had even skipped school and taken the long way home just to avoid him. He obviously was a scared, developmentally challenged kid who panicked. Saying that the victim could have been the bully just doesn't match the facts.
Endeavor to persevere.
Xiron
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 15:22:07
January 10 2012 15:19 GMT
#578
On January 11 2012 00:00 MavivaM wrote:
I find impossible for someone to say "oh, the bully had it coming so who cares. If anything, hooray since there's a bad guy less in town"

Guys, we are not talking about countries in a civil war where respect and humanity are, more often, a luxury than a right.
We are talking about a country where most of the people should live at least decently, where laws can help you and where people can find better solutions than killing people.

If you carry a weapon with yourself you are ready to use it, period.
And if you use a weapon, you should be fully aware of what it implies.

There are several ways to solve bullying problems or at least to oppose to them: there are teachers and parents.
If you feel ashamed of calling them there are friends.
And even if you feel that you have to fight back since sometimes violence can't be avoided, there are better ways than stabbing people.

Usually bullies can be cruel, but they aren't omnipotent.
If not only because they live up to specific social standards that can be exploited, or because often they are easily scared by people who fight back.
One can say that "man up" is the right solution, if something right exists.

This kid can have all of my sympathy, it must have been extremely hard for him to live like that.
But the moment he decided to carry a weapon with him, or the moment he decided to stab the other boy he stepped on a level several times worse than the one of the bully.

People shouldn't get shit everyday.
Some people shouldn't be humiliated, beaten, made fun of just for being themselves.
It's not the way the world should work, but that's how it is.
I think that laws sometimes can be a valid tool to change this course of the things, and if someone want to tell me that I am too idealistic... please let me tell you one more thing.

People shouldn't get shit everyday and so on, but in the unpleaseant possibility of this event people are supposed to grow up, face their problems and eventually solve them.
Not carrying a weapon and then saying to themselves "Oh well, I am being bullied and life sucks, but instead of trying to solve my problems with a different approach I have bought this knife. If the bully comes to me I'll stab him in the stomach because after all he deserves it and I didn't ask for anything."

It's pretty obvious that the bully will come and I can't believe that this kid couldn't know it. After all if someone never reacts before I don't see why he should do otherwise.
He didn't follow the bully in a dark alley to stab him, but this is homicide anyways.

Again I have a lot of sympathy for this kid, and as far as I can know according to a simple thread his fault was more being stupid, coward and desperate enough at the same time than anything else.
But no one forced him to buy a weapon and use it, and thanks to this there's a teen in a coffin and a couple of families destroyed.

The judge bullshitted her way to save this kid from prison since she knew that it would have been completely pointless if not dangerous for him... humanly I agree but it's not fair.
If you want to fight bullism you sentence bullies to civil volunteering and not letting a kid who has killed a bully go away unpunished.
What kind of message is that?
...or if you are a parent, you help your child making friends and grow up.

Seriously: some of us, probably a lot of us have faced some kind of troubles back at school.
Looking back at then, tell me that they weren't somehow solvable or that they didn't make you grow up a little...
Not pleaseant for sure, even I have some really hateful memories of my school period but back at then I fought back without killing anyone.
It would be nice to hear if there are any bullying victims here and how did they solve their problem.



You are right in that it deliveres the wrong image, but in my opinion that boy did the right. Of course, using a weapon means you are aware of the fact that you could kill someone. But I cannot imagine what he should have done differently. I mean, he had no chance to avoid being surrounded by bullies, as that could happen everywhere, anytime in school, before school and after school. They were older, which makes them alot more powerful. It's not about 1 guy versus 1 guy of the same age. He knew that he was up against like 6-8(?) older guys. Nobody could help him in that situation but himself.

Atleast where I come from, Anti-bullying by teachers and parents is useless. In the end, the boy will get ridiculed more, because he showed weakness.

It's sad that the bully died, he should have learned from the experience and faced serious consequences. He didn't deserve to die, because bullys often times are bullys because of their social environment and not because they are just plain evil.
"The way of life can be free and beautiful. But we have lost the way. " - Charlie Chaplin
Shafanhow
Profile Joined December 2009
United States47 Posts
January 10 2012 15:24 GMT
#579
On January 11 2012 00:06 Hesmyrr wrote:
Justifiable self-defense, sickening apathy toward the human life- bullied and the bully. To frame the situation on another words, these people who triumphantly rejoice at the death would by extension injudiciously hand death penalty to anyone who committed any crime equal to or greater than act of the bullying. I just might be able to accept this particular case of stabbing should not be punishable, but that does not mean I have to freaking ravish over how the attack was awesome, the divine hammer of retribution.

Well said, nobody should be glad that Dylan died. Having said that, Jorge was completely justified in what he did. The court ruling was just.
Endeavor to persevere.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 10 2012 15:25 GMT
#580
It's a really sad story. When you raise your hands to strike another then you are opening yourself completely to the possibility that you will be struck back in retaliation. Justice is not synonymous with vengeance, but self-defense isn't synonymous with vengeance either.
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