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On January 11 2012 00:36 InFdude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:35 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 00:33 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:29 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 00:25 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 10 2012 23:39 FunnyPicture wrote:
I think murder is murder, he clearly planned on it considering he brought a deadly weapon to school. Did you read the article? He only used it once he was threatened repeatedly by a mob of kids, attacked, beaten severely, and needed to use it in self-defense. He almost certainly would have been killed if he hadn't used it. It saved his life. No it didn't.It saved him a beating.The kid is 100% a murderer in my eyes.Think about it for just 1 second, he prefered to just try to stab his way out of the fight instead of telling his parents or the teacher or someone.1 school fight is nothing.Kids fight all the time.He CHOSE to go the way of the knife instead of humiliating (in his eyes ) himself by asking for help some grown up.In my eyes anyone who would prefer to try to stab his way out of a beating instead of doing something else should go to jail.That's exactly where he belongs, where people stab each other. You're wrong, plain and simple. Going to authorities for bullies usually results in nothing positive. The best you can do is try to avoid it, and inevitably when you can't, defend yourself. You also don't seem to understand the difference between a 1 on 1 school fight and 8 on 1 beating. And you obviously can't understand someone DIED.He got bullied bu hu big deal.Killing for being bullied is now ok what next? May be one day when you are making too much noise I'll come and massacre your entire family and then say I need my sleep or it might have negative effects on my health. You're a moron if you think being a nuisance and physically assaulting someone are even remotely similar. You just cyber bullied me by insulting me.That could affect my mental health.Can I come and murder you now?
Stop trolling before you get a warning.
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A lot of people have this assumption that a 14 year old will act calmly and rationally, even under the threat of physical violence from someone bigger and older than him in real time. There is always a "best way" to go about things, but people keep overlooking the human aspect to the situation, the kid has been scared shitless for over a year from the same group of people.
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Great post about martial arts classes cuz judging from photos of bully and his friends they were a useless gang who bullied by numbers and after couple month of martial arts u can easily fight back (1 on 1) and they will likely run away like scared chicken. However you could still end up beaten by numbers of those fuckheads... But when you go to a good martial arts school like I did - your instructors and trainers treat you like family, so telling them about the problem will not humiliate you but humiliate those lazy ass bullies who would get destroyed in their own physical game and scream for help. If they gang you up by numbers than your martial arts school will help you to even numbers. Best part is those instructors are so good they will never kill a person  safety 1st when asskicking comes. Head is most important - when you KO or slam anyone you have to catch his hand or head so that head won't hit ground (concrete or some hard surface). Dunno about US laws but in Europe a self-defense which results in death gets you to jail 
Howevah it could end badly cuz if victim humiliates bullies then there's a 99% chance bullies will seek revenge with weapons.
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A 14 year old kid got killed. Kids do stupid stuff, we all did. But hopefully we grew up. This one won't have this chance.
Do you guys seriously think that it was self defense under death threat ?
And if it was the case, we don't resolve problems by bringing a knife.
In another hand I agree with the justive decision to not send the killer in prison because I don't think he's a psychopath dangerous fro society. Just a scared kid that did a big mistake. Sad story, but please, don't pretend that what he did was necessary or he didn't have any other choice, I can see at least 10 other things he could have done instead of bringing a knife.
Poor decision making that resulted in a kid's death. Just a sad story
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On January 10 2012 15:09 Regime wrote:
what bullshit it doesnt matter if u think ur in danger. call the police... u cant carry a knife thats intent theres no way around it
LOL yeah, call the cops and tell them that some kids are bullying you. They'll def come save you.
You rly gotta think b4 you type man.
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On January 11 2012 00:39 MavivaM wrote:
Personally I believe that anti-bullying from teachers and parents it's not completely pointless.
Unless we talk about guys who go to the bully just to tell him "you bad bad guy, now stop it or I'll get reeeealy mad" or people who just let it go by the evergreen "they are just kids".
There are other, and imo better, ways to help bully victims: the error is that people focus on the anti-bullying as something 100% related to the bully, while it simply is not.
It may sound cheesy, but without a victim there's not a bully.
It's 50/50.
Let's say that you are a victim: why are you like that?
Has anyone ever considered the reason why someone becomes a bully victim?
For some exceptions it's because of things that can hardly be avoided: people with strange physical appeareance, sexual orientation (particularly in some countries) and so on, but the main reasons keep being the same for everyone.
1 being awkward
2 do not fight back
I say that if your parents can help you to work on those weak points instead of going to scold the bully and make you look even more ridiculous you will benefit from it.
Most of the time the awkwardness comes from inexperience.
You do not know how to interact with people since you do not often interact with people.
Therefore, the moment you have to interact not only with someone, but with someone unfriendly everything goes down to the drain.
But what about this: at school you are bullied by X who is a complete asshole and likes to ruin your life.
But when school is over you go to, let's say a football school where no one knows you and you have all the time in the world to make new friends between people who don't know you and don't have any preconcept about you.
Where you can build up your confidence.
Or what about a karate gym, or things like that.
Bullying comes because a victim feels completely unsuited for a "group life", the moment your image starts to change things will follow.
Then, when you'll be "stronger" (physically, psychologically, socially skilled or whatever) things will be different.
Let's not forget that the events in the OP happened because no one did anything in more than a year.
It's obvious that if you let things snowball you can't hope to fix everything with a couple of bravery acts.
You say that victims have to change themselves because otherwise they have to expect being potential victims? That's completely against democracy where the freedom of every human being is the highest value. I can be as awkward as I ever want, because that is my right. And I can live like Jesus Christ, and if anyone beats me on the one cheek, I'll present him my other one (or whatever that sentence is in english), as much as I want. If anyone harms my rights, he is the villain and I have every right in the world to defend myself. As you said, no one did anything for more than a year. But it's not my duty to change anything if I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't have to talk to anyone about it and I don't have to try to be 'stronger'. Later or sooner the bully will have to face the consequences. It's like North and South Korea. Now North Korea is kind of the bully and South Korea is the victim. But may the day come that South Korea seriously feels harmed, nobody can expect that South Korea will have mercy with North Korea and stomp it to the ground. And nobody can blame South Korea for overdoing it.
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On January 11 2012 00:48 Hider wrote:
Cant believe ppl are discussing this. Some people are just so dumb. ITS FUCKING self defense. Self defense is self defense. Dont go defend the bully. Somebody died because he threatened another boy. Its only good he had a knife with him in school becasue this allowed him to defend him self.
IF somebody broke into your house and threatened to kill you would you A) Rather have a gun, B) Not have a gun.
Question 2: A) would you shoot him? B) Would you not shoot him and let him beat you up and possibly kill you?.
Serisouly some ppl have just been manipulated too much through school and their parents (and i kinda blame the evil governments for this), to make them think that acting in self defense is not justified.
okay so what happens if the bully see's the knife, then pulls out a firearm and shoots the kid dead.
he gets off scot-free because it was self defense? perfectly justified i suppose?
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On January 11 2012 00:48 Hider wrote:
Cant believe ppl are discussing this. Some people are just so dumb. ITS FUCKING self defense. Self defense is self defense. Dont go defend the bully. Somebody died because he threatened another boy. Its only good he had a knife with him in school becasue this allowed him to defend him self.
IF somebody broke into your house and threatened to kill you would you A) Rather have a gun, B) Not have a gun.
Question 2: A) would you shoot him? B) Would you not shoot him and let him beat you up and possibly kill you?.
Serisouly some ppl have just been manipulated too much through school and their parents (and i kinda blame the evil governments for this), to make them think that acting in self defense is not justified.
Man, these people want everyone to be like Christ. If sombody is nailing you to a cross, just take it because defending yourself might hurt or kill the bastard. Self defense laws are in place for a reason folks. People shouldn't have to just take it.
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United States5162 Posts
On January 11 2012 00:54 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:48 Hider wrote:
Cant believe ppl are discussing this. Some people are just so dumb. ITS FUCKING self defense. Self defense is self defense. Dont go defend the bully. Somebody died because he threatened another boy. Its only good he had a knife with him in school becasue this allowed him to defend him self.
IF somebody broke into your house and threatened to kill you would you A) Rather have a gun, B) Not have a gun.
Question 2: A) would you shoot him? B) Would you not shoot him and let him beat you up and possibly kill you?.
Serisouly some ppl have just been manipulated too much through school and their parents (and i kinda blame the evil governments for this), to make them think that acting in self defense is not justified. okay so what happens if the bully see's the knife, then pulls out a firearm and shoots the kid dead. he gets off scot-free because it was self defense? perfectly justified i suppose?
No, because the bully is the attacker.
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On January 11 2012 00:54 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:48 Hider wrote:
Cant believe ppl are discussing this. Some people are just so dumb. ITS FUCKING self defense. Self defense is self defense. Dont go defend the bully. Somebody died because he threatened another boy. Its only good he had a knife with him in school becasue this allowed him to defend him self.
IF somebody broke into your house and threatened to kill you would you A) Rather have a gun, B) Not have a gun.
Question 2: A) would you shoot him? B) Would you not shoot him and let him beat you up and possibly kill you?.
Serisouly some ppl have just been manipulated too much through school and their parents (and i kinda blame the evil governments for this), to make them think that acting in self defense is not justified. okay so what happens if the bully see's the knife, then pulls out a firearm and shoots the kid dead. he gets off scot-free because it was self defense? perfectly justified i suppose?
"I'm going to beat you up"
"Oh yeah, I've got a knife"
"I expected that, so brought this gun with me"
Do you see how stupid you sound right now?
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On January 11 2012 00:57 InFdude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:49 MethodSC wrote:On January 11 2012 00:36 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:35 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 00:33 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:29 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 00:25 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 10 2012 23:39 FunnyPicture wrote:
I think murder is murder, he clearly planned on it considering he brought a deadly weapon to school. Did you read the article? He only used it once he was threatened repeatedly by a mob of kids, attacked, beaten severely, and needed to use it in self-defense. He almost certainly would have been killed if he hadn't used it. It saved his life. No it didn't.It saved him a beating.The kid is 100% a murderer in my eyes.Think about it for just 1 second, he prefered to just try to stab his way out of the fight instead of telling his parents or the teacher or someone.1 school fight is nothing.Kids fight all the time.He CHOSE to go the way of the knife instead of humiliating (in his eyes ) himself by asking for help some grown up.In my eyes anyone who would prefer to try to stab his way out of a beating instead of doing something else should go to jail.That's exactly where he belongs, where people stab each other. You're wrong, plain and simple. Going to authorities for bullies usually results in nothing positive. The best you can do is try to avoid it, and inevitably when you can't, defend yourself. You also don't seem to understand the difference between a 1 on 1 school fight and 8 on 1 beating. And you obviously can't understand someone DIED.He got bullied bu hu big deal.Killing for being bullied is now ok what next? May be one day when you are making too much noise I'll come and massacre your entire family and then say I need my sleep or it might have negative effects on my health. You're a moron if you think being a nuisance and physically assaulting someone are even remotely similar. You just cyber bullied me by insulting me.That could affect my mental health.Can I come and murder you now? Stop trolling before you get a warning. Not trolling just pointing out a slippery sloap.It starts with people justifying stabbing a bully and it ends with everybody stabbing everybody.If this kid can get away with such a crime then everyone who will ever be in any sort of fight like a bar fight or random brawl can just whip out a knife and start killing people. And don't know about the law in the US.But here even if someone is invading your house you can't act in self deffence anything different that what you are being invaded with.If the robber has a gun you can shoot him.If he is unarmed you can't even stab him in self defence.
That sounds really helpful when you dont know what arms he's carrying... Like rock paper scissors.
But hey, Philippine law isn't too swell either.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 11 2012 00:39 MavivaM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:19 Xiron wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 11 2012 00:00 MavivaM wrote:
I find impossible for someone to say "oh, the bully had it coming so who cares. If anything, hooray since there's a bad guy less in town"
Guys, we are not talking about countries in a civil war where respect and humanity are, more often, a luxury than a right.
We are talking about a country where most of the people should live at least decently, where laws can help you and where people can find better solutions than killing people.
If you carry a weapon with yourself you are ready to use it, period.
And if you use a weapon, you should be fully aware of what it implies.
There are several ways to solve bullying problems or at least to oppose to them: there are teachers and parents.
If you feel ashamed of calling them there are friends.
And even if you feel that you have to fight back since sometimes violence can't be avoided, there are better ways than stabbing people.
Usually bullies can be cruel, but they aren't omnipotent.
If not only because they live up to specific social standards that can be exploited, or because often they are easily scared by people who fight back.
One can say that "man up" is the right solution, if something right exists.
This kid can have all of my sympathy, it must have been extremely hard for him to live like that.
But the moment he decided to carry a weapon with him, or the moment he decided to stab the other boy he stepped on a level several times worse than the one of the bully.
People shouldn't get shit everyday.
Some people shouldn't be humiliated, beaten, made fun of just for being themselves.
It's not the way the world should work, but that's how it is.
I think that laws sometimes can be a valid tool to change this course of the things, and if someone want to tell me that I am too idealistic... please let me tell you one more thing.
People shouldn't get shit everyday and so on, but in the unpleaseant possibility of this event people are supposed to grow up, face their problems and eventually solve them.
Not carrying a weapon and then saying to themselves "Oh well, I am being bullied and life sucks, but instead of trying to solve my problems with a different approach I have bought this knife. If the bully comes to me I'll stab him in the stomach because after all he deserves it and I didn't ask for anything."
It's pretty obvious that the bully will come and I can't believe that this kid couldn't know it. After all if someone never reacts before I don't see why he should do otherwise.
He didn't follow the bully in a dark alley to stab him, but this is homicide anyways.
Again I have a lot of sympathy for this kid, and as far as I can know according to a simple thread his fault was more being stupid, coward and desperate enough at the same time than anything else.
But no one forced him to buy a weapon and use it, and thanks to this there's a teen in a coffin and a couple of families destroyed.
The judge bullshitted her way to save this kid from prison since she knew that it would have been completely pointless if not dangerous for him... humanly I agree but it's not fair.
If you want to fight bullism you sentence bullies to civil volunteering and not letting a kid who has killed a bully go away unpunished.
What kind of message is that?
...or if you are a parent, you help your child making friends and grow up.
Seriously: some of us, probably a lot of us have faced some kind of troubles back at school.
Looking back at then, tell me that they weren't somehow solvable or that they didn't make you grow up a little...
Not pleaseant for sure, even I have some really hateful memories of my school period but back at then I fought back without killing anyone.
It would be nice to hear if there are any bullying victims here and how did they solve their problem.
You are right in that it deliveres the wrong image, but in my opinion that boy did the right. Of course, using a weapon means you are aware of the fact that you could kill someone. But I cannot imagine what he should have done differently. I mean, he had no chance to avoid being surrounded by bullies, as that could happen everywhere, anytime in school, before school and after school. They were older, which makes them alot more powerful. It's not about 1 guy versus 1 guy of the same age. He knew that he was up against like 6-8(?) older guys. Nobody could help him in that situation but himself. Atleast where I come from, Anti-bullying by teachers and parents is useless. In the end, the boy will get ridiculed more, because he showed weakness. It's sad that the bully died, he should have learned from the experience and faced serious consequences. He didn't deserve to die, because bullys often times are bullys because of their social environment and not because they are just plain evil. Personally I believe that anti-bullying from teachers and parents it's not completely pointless. Unless we talk about guys who go to the bully just to tell him "you bad bad guy, now stop it or I'll get reeeealy mad" or people who just let it go by the evergreen "they are just kids". There are other, and imo better, ways to help bully victims: the error is that people focus on the anti-bullying as something 100% related to the bully, while it simply is not. It may sound cheesy, but without a victim there's not a bully. It's 50/50. Let's say that you are a victim: why are you like that? Has anyone ever considered the reason why someone becomes a bully victim? For some exceptions it's because of things that can hardly be avoided: people with strange physical appeareance, sexual orientation (particularly in some countries) and so on, but the main reasons keep being the same for everyone. 1 being awkward 2 do not fight back I say that if your parents can help you to work on those weak points instead of going to scold the bully and make you look even more ridiculous you will benefit from it. Most of the time the awkwardness comes from inexperience. You do not know how to interact with people since you do not often interact with people. Therefore, the moment you have to interact not only with someone, but with someone unfriendly everything goes down to the drain. He had a learning disability. How much responsibility are you going to put on the kid to change and act differently? Entering highschool is bad enough, and it's even worse when you're separated into a special ed class. He was going to be the awkward kid no matter what. Normally it's tolerable, until you have a popular upper classman picking on you...
And considering Nuno had apparently been bullied at his previous school, he should've known better. He was a victim, so he changed school and decided to become an even worse bully.
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On January 11 2012 00:51 Diks wrote:
A 14 year old kid got killed. Kids do stupid stuff, we all did. But hopefully we grew up. This one won't have this chance.
Do you guys seriously think that it was self defense under death threat ?
And if it was the case, we don't resolve problems by bringing a knife.
In another hand I agree with the justive decision to not send the killer in prison because I don't think he's a psychopath dangerous fro society. Just a scared kid that did a big mistake. Sad story, but please, don't pretend that what he did was necessary or he didn't have any other choice, I can see at least 10 other things he could have done instead of bringing a knife.
Poor decision making that resulted in a kid's death. Just a sad story
Lets say that a 14 year old boy has a knife and is threating you (perhaps just indirectly). He gets closer to you. As your surrounded by other boys you cant run away. Would you A) Rather have a gun, or B) Not have a gun?
Assuming you had a gun, what would you do?
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On January 11 2012 00:53 Xiron wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 11 2012 00:39 MavivaM wrote:
Personally I believe that anti-bullying from teachers and parents it's not completely pointless.
Unless we talk about guys who go to the bully just to tell him "you bad bad guy, now stop it or I'll get reeeealy mad" or people who just let it go by the evergreen "they are just kids".
There are other, and imo better, ways to help bully victims: the error is that people focus on the anti-bullying as something 100% related to the bully, while it simply is not.
It may sound cheesy, but without a victim there's not a bully.
It's 50/50.
Let's say that you are a victim: why are you like that?
Has anyone ever considered the reason why someone becomes a bully victim?
For some exceptions it's because of things that can hardly be avoided: people with strange physical appeareance, sexual orientation (particularly in some countries) and so on, but the main reasons keep being the same for everyone.
1 being awkward
2 do not fight back
I say that if your parents can help you to work on those weak points instead of going to scold the bully and make you look even more ridiculous you will benefit from it.
Most of the time the awkwardness comes from inexperience.
You do not know how to interact with people since you do not often interact with people.
Therefore, the moment you have to interact not only with someone, but with someone unfriendly everything goes down to the drain.
But what about this: at school you are bullied by X who is a complete asshole and likes to ruin your life.
But when school is over you go to, let's say a football school where no one knows you and you have all the time in the world to make new friends between people who don't know you and don't have any preconcept about you.
Where you can build up your confidence.
Or what about a karate gym, or things like that.
Bullying comes because a victim feels completely unsuited for a "group life", the moment your image starts to change things will follow.
Then, when you'll be "stronger" (physically, psychologically, socially skilled or whatever) things will be different.
Let's not forget that the events in the OP happened because no one did anything in more than a year.
It's obvious that if you let things snowball you can't hope to fix everything with a couple of bravery acts.
You say that victims have to change themselves because otherwise they have to expect being potential victims? That's completely against democracy where the freedom of every human being is the highest value. I can be as awkward as I ever want, because that is my right. And I can live like Jesus Christ, and if anyone beats me on the one cheek, I'll present him my other one (or whatever that sentence is in english), as much as I want. If anyone harms my rights, he is the villain and I have every right in the world to defend myself. As you said, no one did anything for more than a year. But it's not my duty to change anything if I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't have to talk to anyone about it and I don't have to try to be 'stronger'. Later or sooner the bully will have to face the consequences. It's like North and South Korea. Now North Korea is kind of the bully and South Korea is the victim. But may the day come that South Korea seriously feels harmed, nobody can expect that South Korea will have mercy with North Korea and stomp it to the ground. And nobody can blame South Korea for overdoing it.
Are you serious?
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On January 11 2012 00:48 sad.wish wrote:
still murder is murder, u can protect yourself without killing someone.....
Yes it might have been possible, but you miss the point. Obviously, he overdid it by stabbing the guy. However, the boy was in an extreme situation. He was severely afraid because of the on going bullying and simply wasn't able to make rational decisions anymore. That does not make him a coldblooded murderer who should go to prison.
It is also unclear whether the boy intended to kill the bully. Obviously, he took the risk that it happens. He might have just randomly used the knife at a part of the bullies body where it kills him. I do think it makes a huge difference.
In the end this would have never happened, if the school would use stricter methods on denying bullying in the first place.
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People do crazy things when they're desperate, I think not punishing the kid was the right choice.
Sad thing is though, that he'll never be the same again after what he did.
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On January 11 2012 00:57 InFdude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:49 MethodSC wrote:On January 11 2012 00:36 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:35 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 00:33 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:29 Myles wrote:On January 11 2012 00:25 InFdude wrote:On January 11 2012 00:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 10 2012 23:39 FunnyPicture wrote:
I think murder is murder, he clearly planned on it considering he brought a deadly weapon to school. Did you read the article? He only used it once he was threatened repeatedly by a mob of kids, attacked, beaten severely, and needed to use it in self-defense. He almost certainly would have been killed if he hadn't used it. It saved his life. No it didn't.It saved him a beating.The kid is 100% a murderer in my eyes.Think about it for just 1 second, he prefered to just try to stab his way out of the fight instead of telling his parents or the teacher or someone.1 school fight is nothing.Kids fight all the time.He CHOSE to go the way of the knife instead of humiliating (in his eyes ) himself by asking for help some grown up.In my eyes anyone who would prefer to try to stab his way out of a beating instead of doing something else should go to jail.That's exactly where he belongs, where people stab each other. You're wrong, plain and simple. Going to authorities for bullies usually results in nothing positive. The best you can do is try to avoid it, and inevitably when you can't, defend yourself. You also don't seem to understand the difference between a 1 on 1 school fight and 8 on 1 beating. And you obviously can't understand someone DIED.He got bullied bu hu big deal.Killing for being bullied is now ok what next? May be one day when you are making too much noise I'll come and massacre your entire family and then say I need my sleep or it might have negative effects on my health. You're a moron if you think being a nuisance and physically assaulting someone are even remotely similar. You just cyber bullied me by insulting me.That could affect my mental health.Can I come and murder you now? Stop trolling before you get a warning. Not trolling just pointing out a slippery sloap.It starts with people justifying stabbing a bully and it ends with everybody stabbing everybody.If this kid can get away with such a crime then everyone who will ever be in any sort of fight like a bar fight or random brawl can just whip out a knife and start killing people. And don't know about the law in the US.But here even if someone is invading your house you can't act in self deffence with anything different than what you are being invaded with.If the robber has a gun you can shoot him.If he is unarmed you can't even stab him in self defence.
Read the OP.
Saavedra, who was 14 at the time of the killing, was protected under Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which stipulates that people can defend themselves if they feel threatened by any means necessary, NBC 2 reported.
You can choose to believe it's murder all you want, but under Florida law, it's self defense.
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On January 11 2012 00:59 Jibba wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 11 2012 00:39 MavivaM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:19 Xiron wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 11 2012 00:00 MavivaM wrote:
I find impossible for someone to say "oh, the bully had it coming so who cares. If anything, hooray since there's a bad guy less in town"
Guys, we are not talking about countries in a civil war where respect and humanity are, more often, a luxury than a right.
We are talking about a country where most of the people should live at least decently, where laws can help you and where people can find better solutions than killing people.
If you carry a weapon with yourself you are ready to use it, period.
And if you use a weapon, you should be fully aware of what it implies.
There are several ways to solve bullying problems or at least to oppose to them: there are teachers and parents.
If you feel ashamed of calling them there are friends.
And even if you feel that you have to fight back since sometimes violence can't be avoided, there are better ways than stabbing people.
Usually bullies can be cruel, but they aren't omnipotent.
If not only because they live up to specific social standards that can be exploited, or because often they are easily scared by people who fight back.
One can say that "man up" is the right solution, if something right exists.
This kid can have all of my sympathy, it must have been extremely hard for him to live like that.
But the moment he decided to carry a weapon with him, or the moment he decided to stab the other boy he stepped on a level several times worse than the one of the bully.
People shouldn't get shit everyday.
Some people shouldn't be humiliated, beaten, made fun of just for being themselves.
It's not the way the world should work, but that's how it is.
I think that laws sometimes can be a valid tool to change this course of the things, and if someone want to tell me that I am too idealistic... please let me tell you one more thing.
People shouldn't get shit everyday and so on, but in the unpleaseant possibility of this event people are supposed to grow up, face their problems and eventually solve them.
Not carrying a weapon and then saying to themselves "Oh well, I am being bullied and life sucks, but instead of trying to solve my problems with a different approach I have bought this knife. If the bully comes to me I'll stab him in the stomach because after all he deserves it and I didn't ask for anything."
It's pretty obvious that the bully will come and I can't believe that this kid couldn't know it. After all if someone never reacts before I don't see why he should do otherwise.
He didn't follow the bully in a dark alley to stab him, but this is homicide anyways.
Again I have a lot of sympathy for this kid, and as far as I can know according to a simple thread his fault was more being stupid, coward and desperate enough at the same time than anything else.
But no one forced him to buy a weapon and use it, and thanks to this there's a teen in a coffin and a couple of families destroyed.
The judge bullshitted her way to save this kid from prison since she knew that it would have been completely pointless if not dangerous for him... humanly I agree but it's not fair.
If you want to fight bullism you sentence bullies to civil volunteering and not letting a kid who has killed a bully go away unpunished.
What kind of message is that?
...or if you are a parent, you help your child making friends and grow up.
Seriously: some of us, probably a lot of us have faced some kind of troubles back at school.
Looking back at then, tell me that they weren't somehow solvable or that they didn't make you grow up a little...
Not pleaseant for sure, even I have some really hateful memories of my school period but back at then I fought back without killing anyone.
It would be nice to hear if there are any bullying victims here and how did they solve their problem.
You are right in that it deliveres the wrong image, but in my opinion that boy did the right. Of course, using a weapon means you are aware of the fact that you could kill someone. But I cannot imagine what he should have done differently. I mean, he had no chance to avoid being surrounded by bullies, as that could happen everywhere, anytime in school, before school and after school. They were older, which makes them alot more powerful. It's not about 1 guy versus 1 guy of the same age. He knew that he was up against like 6-8(?) older guys. Nobody could help him in that situation but himself. Atleast where I come from, Anti-bullying by teachers and parents is useless. In the end, the boy will get ridiculed more, because he showed weakness. It's sad that the bully died, he should have learned from the experience and faced serious consequences. He didn't deserve to die, because bullys often times are bullys because of their social environment and not because they are just plain evil. Personally I believe that anti-bullying from teachers and parents it's not completely pointless. Unless we talk about guys who go to the bully just to tell him "you bad bad guy, now stop it or I'll get reeeealy mad" or people who just let it go by the evergreen "they are just kids". There are other, and imo better, ways to help bully victims: the error is that people focus on the anti-bullying as something 100% related to the bully, while it simply is not. It may sound cheesy, but without a victim there's not a bully. It's 50/50. Let's say that you are a victim: why are you like that? Has anyone ever considered the reason why someone becomes a bully victim? For some exceptions it's because of things that can hardly be avoided: people with strange physical appeareance, sexual orientation (particularly in some countries) and so on, but the main reasons keep being the same for everyone. 1 being awkward 2 do not fight back I say that if your parents can help you to work on those weak points instead of going to scold the bully and make you look even more ridiculous you will benefit from it. Most of the time the awkwardness comes from inexperience. You do not know how to interact with people since you do not often interact with people. Therefore, the moment you have to interact not only with someone, but with someone unfriendly everything goes down to the drain. He had a learning disability. How much responsibility are you going to put on the kid to change and act differently? Entering highschool is bad enough, and it's even worse when you're separated into a special ed class. He was going to be the awkward kid no matter what. Normally it's tolerable, until you have a popular upper classman picking on you...
I was talking about 'normal' cases, if we consider this one I'm not sure about the solution.
But again what can you do if not improving yourself?
You hide your head into the ground for some years until school ends or you kill a person.
In any case I don't pretend to have to solution for all the evils in the world.
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On January 11 2012 00:48 sad.wish wrote:
still murder is murder, u can protect yourself without killing someone.....
When you're getting the shit kicked out of you, you're a little kid, and you're surrounded by people who honestly want you dead, you don't exactly have a vast array of options.
EDIT: It's also not murder, by the definition of self-defense (and murder) and the law protecting the kid put in this terrible situation.
On January 11 2012 00:51 Diks wrote:
A 14 year old kid got killed. Kids do stupid stuff, we all did. But hopefully we grew up. This one won't have this chance.
Relentlessly bullying and harrassing a kid for a year and then beating the shit of him is "stupid stuff"? No, my friend. It's not. It's not "silly stuff". It's not "no big deal". It's not "stupid stuff". It's not "boys will be boys". It's not "he'll grow out of it". It's serious, dangerous behavior that destroys other people's lives, and he finally paid for it.
There was a gang of kids making one boy's life a living hell. Stalking him, harrassing him, bullying him, and beating him up. Then the boy fought back only when he had to. One of the bullies died... it's a pity that someone had to die, but it's great that the bullied kid wasn't that person.
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EPT
