EPTBully Victim stabbed Bully to Death - Page 32
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Hazzyboy
Estonia555 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:00 phaib wrote: Yes it might have been possible, but you miss the point. Obviously, he overdid it by stabbing the guy. However, the boy was in an extreme situation. He was severely afraid because of the on going bullying and simply wasn't able to make rational decisions anymore. That does not make him a coldblooded murderer who should go to prison. It is also unclear whether the boy intended to kill the bully. Obviously, he took the risk that it happens. He might have just randomly used the knife at a part of the bullies body where it kills him. I do think it makes a huge difference. In the end this would have never happened, if the school would use stricter methods on denying bullying in the first place. When you act in self defense the only thing that matters is trying to minizme the risk of you getting hurt. Some times its possible to minimze the risk without killing the other person, some times you have to kill him. You cant think like this: Well if i just stab him very weakly, he will probably run away and i am safe. But what if the bully doesn't act like this. WHat if there is a 1% possiblity that he will smack you with his other arm and then beat you to death, then you fuccking gotta overstab him, or do whatever it takes to minizime the risk of you dying. The risk of uncertainty should never benefit the bully. In a risk/reward situation the bullies life should have almost zero weights, as he is the one who is gulty, and the bullied the innocent. Why the hell would you risk your own life to save the bully? | ||
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Littlemuff
United Kingdom301 Posts
Hope he recieves the good councelling, i could never imagine being as young as him and dealing with the fact that i killed someone. | ||
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secretary bird
447 Posts
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Dizmaul
United States831 Posts
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
.. kinda. Good kid, I'm glad he's ok. | ||
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phaib
Germany156 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:09 Hider wrote: When you act in self defense the only thing that matters is trying to minizme the risk of you getting hurt. Some times its possible to minimze the risk without killing the other person, some times you have to kill him. You cant think like this: Well if i just stab him very weakly, he will probably run away and i am safe. But what if the bully doesn't act like this. WHat if there is a 1% possiblity that he will smack you with his other arm and then beat you to death, then you fuccking gotta overstab him, or do whatever it takes to minizime the risk of you dying. The risk of uncertainty should never benefit the bully. In a risk/reward situation the bullies life should have almost zero weights, as he is the one who is gulty, and the bullied the innocent. Why the hell would you risk your own life to save the bully? I think you should try to minimize the damage you do by self defending. But of course you are right in the fact this is not always possible. In particular, in extreme situations it would be completely wrong to punish someone for overdoing it. I really think the court's decision was right. So I guess we almost agree  | ||
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Hazzyboy
Estonia555 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:13 secretary bird wrote: I feel sorry for his parents they thought they had raised a nice normal kid and now they find out he loved to gang up on and beat special ed kids and he is dead because of it. Maybe Nuno's parenting was shitty... but it doesn't matter at this point. And there's a good example with animals when you see same dogs brought up differently - they act differently. | ||
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Herculix
United States946 Posts
almost every public middle and high school i've been to, had a friend that went to, or heard about in my area had a shooting or a stabbing or at minimum tons of on-campus fights that went on throught the year. i can't tell if the security is simply incompetent or quite frankly scared. there is a lot of posturing and bragging about which school is "harder." that's why florida has the "stand your ground" thing in the first place, because it's straight up out of control and not possible to stop it before it happens most of the time. | ||
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Chamie
Sweden40 Posts
. One thing I learned from training krav maga is that violence is dangerous, there are a hell of a lot of things that can kill you or give you life long injuries .In most fights people don't go all out, especially not young guys, but if someone gets pissed off it's fking dangerous since a furious person won't care about unwritten rules for what is and what's not allowed in a fight. Carrying knives to school may not be common, but if you know what you are doing you can critcally injure someones knee or whatever even while unarmed. This should serve as a good warning! | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
On January 11 2012 00:56 Jojo131 wrote: "I'm going to beat you up" "Oh yeah, I've got a knife" "I expected that, so brought this gun with me" Do you see how stupid you sound right now? wrong. the bully has a reason to fear for his life in that situation. therefore he's more instinctively inclined to use his weapon to kill the kid. the stand your ground law says that he shouldn't have to flee, but if threatened with force he's allowed to use necessary, even lethal, force in retaliation. imo the kid had no reason to fear for his life. is a bully really going to seriously injure / kill his target infront of a crowd of kids? maybe the kid was dense as hell, which would explain why he used lethal force. in any case, that kid should be punished for murder. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:17 phaib wrote: I think you should try to minimize the damage you do by self defending. But of course you are right in the fact this is not always possible. In particular, in extreme situations it would be completely wrong to punish someone for overdoing it. I really think the court's decision was right. So I guess we almost agree So you definition of damage (total damage) = Damage done to bully + damage done to your self. So lets assume that you have 3 choices: 1) 10% likehold of you dying. 10% of bully dying. 80% of nothing happening. 2) 100% likehold of bully dying. 0 % of you dying. 3) 50% possiblity of both of you getting badly hurt. What option would you do. Total damage is definitely minizmed at option 1, but why the hell would you value the damage done to the bully? He is the reason why you are standing in this "dilemma". IMO everyone should in reality value option 2. Sure if there is an option 4) 0% risk of you dying, 10% risk of him dying, i would use that option, but your main priority is to minizme your own risk. Nothing else matters when he is one who is causing this. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On January 11 2012 00:57 InFdude wrote: ... just pointing out a slippery slope. It starts with people justifying stabbing a bully and it ends with everybody stabbing everybody.If this kid can get away with such a crime then everyone who will ever be in any sort of fight like a bar fight or random brawl can just whip out a knife and start killing people. And don't know about the law in the US.But here even if someone is invading your house you can't act in self deffence with anything different than what you are being invaded with.If the robber has a gun you can shoot him.If he is unarmed you can't even stab him in self defence. Everybody isn't going to go around and start stabbing everybody. lmao Good thing that's only the law in your country when it comes to people breaking and entering. I don't think you are aware of what happens in the rest of the world. To me you sound very isolated. I live in one of the wealthiest areas. It's a very nice neighborhood of town yet even then we're not safe. In fact, we have targets over our heads. There have been several burglaries here where the robbers not only took broke in while the folks were home, but brutally murdered everyone as well. Not just that, but I've had friends where gangsters have broke in to rob them proceeded to rape my buddies girlfriend and fuck her in every orifice. Tortured her and then killed both of them. Don't believe me? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52701 That's not even the right story, but I made a similar post in that one too. The one I'm talking about happened a few years back yet it still happens and guess what? The stories are identical. Get this. 4 gangsters followed my Dad home from the dealership. He was bringing dinner home as well. As soon as he steps outside the vehicle in the garage they make their presence. All armed with guns. They ask for the keys. He says, "Here you go." Storms in the house and immediately calls the police. We were lucky that they didn't come in the house. They could have killed my Mom, Dad and myself. Your countries rules may be different, but I don't see how I could live somewhere where I'm not allowed to defend myself when my life can be in jeopardy. In any case, I've already said what I needed to say in this thread as I know not everyone read's everything, so I'm sure this one will just keep going around in circles. ;/ | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:26 shizna wrote: wrong. the bully has a reason to fear for his life in that situation. therefore he's more instinctively inclined to use his weapon to kill the kid. imo the kid had no reason to fear for his life. is a bully really going to seriously injure / kill his target infront of a crowd of kids? maybe the kid was dense as hell, which would explain why he used lethal force. in any case, that kid should be punished for murder. If you are being physically assaulted you have every right to fear for your life, especially when outnumbered. And the decision to seriously injure someone is irrelevant. The ease at which you can be seriously injured in a run of a the mill fight is very high and you should defend yourself and risk injuring/killing them to minimize the risk to yourself. | ||
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:26 shizna wrote: wrong. the bully has a reason to fear for his life in that situation. therefore he's more instinctively inclined to use his weapon to kill the kid. imo the kid had no reason to fear for his life. is a bully really going to seriously injure / kill his target infront of a crowd of kids? maybe the kid was dense as hell, which would explain why he used lethal force. in any case, that kid should be punished for murder. You're silly. You're assuming the bully would even have had a gun with him in the first place, which, why would he if he had his friends to back him up and a crowd of people around? Even if he DID have a gun, and shot the kid because he had a knife, it would still have been murder, because he was the aggressor in the first place. There is a difference between killing someone because they are attacking you, and killing someone because they try to kill you because you are attacking them. | ||
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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MassacrisM
United Kingdom149 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:33 KingAce wrote: Yeah bullying sux, but noone should treat a death of a kid like it's some kind of a joke. Live and learn people, live and learn. A 14 year old boy is gonna torture you and your familiy for the rest of your life every single day. One day who gets into a position where you are scared of your life. YOu have the option of killing him and defending your self. If you dont do it, you have no idea what is going to happen except you iwll be beaten up yet another time. But according to your logic we just have to learn and live, and its probably no big deal, and when he grows up he will probably know that what he did was wrong, so your just gonan let him beat you up really badly, and maybe he will even kill you (you dont know). IMO your property right are no fucking joke. IF your are violating them, you gotta face the consequences. | ||
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