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Australia7069 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:00 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 15:57 Jienny wrote:On July 04 2011 15:52 okum wrote:On July 04 2011 15:42 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 15:39 okum wrote:
The part about cease and desist letters is a joke, right?
Right? Unfortunately, it's not. And I think GomTV has proven that even if a move like this engenders some hate, ultimately it's the wise thing to do from a business perspective. A better thing to do from a business perspective would be to provide a service that's superior to the free alternatives. That's inevitably not going to happen. If OGN/MBC follow your plan, the following will happen: * The official streams will be be impossibly slow in Europe. * Only the English cast will be available to foreign viewers. The casting will be done by SDM. * The stream and VODs will require a proprietary player or plugin that only works in IE. * It will not be possible to fast forward when viewing VODs (hi GOM). * Nevake will be shut down, but old games will never be archived on the official site. This is exactly my thoughts. Free service that competes with current ones. There is no reason to destroy all the effort current foreigner community has put in to this. Its only going to drive those viewers away. Even better would be if Kespa did cooperate with foreigner community, like approving nevake account so that its safe haven for broodwar history. Even if they approve nevake though, it doesn't give them the registered user base or the clicks to market to advertisers. The hope is for something like Comedy Central did with the Daily show. Take it off youtube, force everyone to watch it on Comedy central, then monetize the popularity with advertisements. Also, one more thing.. just cuz we recommend English casters don't mean Korean caster VODS will suddenly be unavailable.
Try finding korean vods for GSL....
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On July 04 2011 16:01 Lucumo wrote:
Absolutely agree with this. The stream-/vod-system is perfectly fine as it is and I really like the commentators. There is no need for change.
Tell that to jon747 and his subscribers.
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Actually, even looking at it...can you somehow take down that comment about the nevake channel?
I think, without asking Moktira/Nevake, that was kind of rude. TBH.
I mean, if he gets his channel shut down over this...I won't be the only one upset about it. I guarantee that.
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I honestly prefer the korean casters over hiring on english speaking ones. Things are fine how they are. If MBC would relax and allow us to get direct streams that would be a step in the right direction but a complete overhaul like this seems is unnecessary.
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thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison.
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On July 04 2011 16:00 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 15:57 Jienny wrote:On July 04 2011 15:52 okum wrote:On July 04 2011 15:42 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 15:39 okum wrote:
The part about cease and desist letters is a joke, right?
Right? Unfortunately, it's not. And I think GomTV has proven that even if a move like this engenders some hate, ultimately it's the wise thing to do from a business perspective. A better thing to do from a business perspective would be to provide a service that's superior to the free alternatives. That's inevitably not going to happen. If OGN/MBC follow your plan, the following will happen: * The official streams will be be impossibly slow in Europe. * Only the English cast will be available to foreign viewers. The casting will be done by SDM. * The stream and VODs will require a proprietary player or plugin that only works in IE. * It will not be possible to fast forward when viewing VODs (hi GOM). * Nevake will be shut down, but old games will never be archived on the official site. This is exactly my thoughts. Free service that competes with current ones. There is no reason to destroy all the effort current foreigner community has put in to this. Its only going to drive those viewers away. Even better would be if Kespa did cooperate with foreigner community, like approving nevake account so that its safe haven for broodwar history. Even if they approve nevake though, it doesn't give them the registered user base or the clicks to market to advertisers. The hope is for something like Comedy Central did with the Daily show. Take it off youtube, force everyone to watch it on Comedy central, then monetize the popularity with advertisements.
That is only matter of cooperation. They can easily provide us VODs that are marketed towards foreigner audience. I can understand that Nevake account is not for marketing basically, but if Kespa truly wants to take steps in to foreigner market, its trough working together of already established community who put effort to make it work. Not the way of marketing which some big companies already are doing, which is force customers to pay if you can.
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Australia7069 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:05 d_so wrote:
thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison.
You're missing the point here. We dont want your dumb changes. For gods sake dont post this. If you get nevake shut down, there will be a mob of angry BW fans...
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On July 04 2011 16:06 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:05 d_so wrote:
thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison. You're missing the point here. We dont want your dumb changes. For gods sake dont post this. If you get nevake shut down, there will be a mob of angry BW fans...
that mob of angry fans is still watching GOM TV casts.
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Honestly I think your "perfect scenario" you keep hoping for is unattainable with the complete disconnection between both markets. You site stream numbers but they can simply look at SC2 and see 50x the amount of people watching a major SC2 event. VOD numbers have been accumulated over many years and of course have dropped because of, once again, SC2.
The market you keep talking about isn't really there to begin with. The people who still care for BW have no qualms with the current set up. I really fail to see all that you have laid down benefits the current foreign community in anyway.
Your plan is to make sacrifices for a (very) small chance that this will, in the long-run, benefit the community, and I don't agree with that at all.
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I don't see any reason for a change.
TL is great and covers EVERY need i have for bw.
The foreigner BW market won't grow, because there aren't really new players playing the game.
I have moktira / nevake that upload vods sometimes within 10minutes after the game is played.
In fantastic quality, youtube loads fast.
I hope nothing changes, sorry for the effort you put up, but i can't support your opinion.
Also i would watch the korean casters over EVERY english caster, any time.
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On July 04 2011 16:04 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:01 Lucumo wrote:
Absolutely agree with this. The stream-/vod-system is perfectly fine as it is and I really like the commentators. There is no need for change. Tell that to jon747 and his subscribers.
Jon747 was taken down because of WCG, it had NOTHING to do with Kespa.
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On July 04 2011 16:07 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:06 Kiante wrote:On July 04 2011 16:05 d_so wrote:
thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison. You're missing the point here. We dont want your dumb changes. For gods sake dont post this. If you get nevake shut down, there will be a mob of angry BW fans... that mob of angry fans is still watching GOM TV casts.
gomtv doesn't cover bw. so im really lost here.
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On July 04 2011 16:07 setzer wrote:
Honestly I think your "perfect scenario" you keep hoping for is unattainable with the complete disconnection between both markets. You site stream numbers but they can simply look at SC2 and see 50x the amount of people watching a major SC2 event. VOD numbers have been accumulated over many years and of course have dropped because of, once again, SC2.
The market you keep talking about isn't really there to begin with. The people who still care for BW have no qualms with the current set up. I really fail to see all that you have laid down benefits the current foreign community in anyway.
Your plan is to make sacrifices for a (very) small chance that this will, in the long-run, benefit the community, and I don't agree with that at all.
i agree with a lot of this, but i think there is potential for growth. Those numbers are accumulated over about 5 years; that's still 5 million a year that Kespa could have had but didn't.
Ultimately, I think leaving things the way they are = death of Pro Broodwar. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't expect Kespa to keep bleeding money into a non-growth market (Korea) and losing millions of clicks it could have had from foreigners.
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Sorry man, but why should foreign viewers pay when Koreans can watch it for free on TV? If the advertisement model works in Korea, then maybe KeSPA could try to expand to non-Korean viewers.
I'm fine with the way things are. I don't need English casters.
I'm not in favour of this.
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On July 04 2011 16:09 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:07 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 16:06 Kiante wrote:On July 04 2011 16:05 d_so wrote:
thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison. You're missing the point here. We dont want your dumb changes. For gods sake dont post this. If you get nevake shut down, there will be a mob of angry BW fans... that mob of angry fans is still watching GOM TV casts. gomtv doesn't cover bw. so im really lost here.
i mean like those angry fans who got pissed cuz gomtv eliminated all restreams and VODs on youtube. remember that? like a year prior.
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On July 04 2011 16:10 Simplistik wrote:
Sorry man, but why should foreign viewers pay when Koreans can watch it for free on TV? If the advertisement model works in Korea, then maybe KeSPA could try to expand to non-Korean viewers.
I'm fine with the way things are. I don't need English casters.
I'm not in favour of this.
many peoiple seem to think i want a pay per view model. Is the article really that unclear? Should i reword something?
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On July 04 2011 16:10 Simplistik wrote:
Sorry man, but why should foreign viewers pay when Koreans can watch it for free on TV? If the advertisement model works in Korea, then maybe KeSPA could try to expand to non-Korean viewers.
I'm fine with the way things are. I don't need English casters.
I'm not in favour of this.
the advertisement model doesnt work in Korea. That's why KeSPA is trying to expand to China and MBC and OGN are losing money.
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On July 04 2011 16:10 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:09 Baarn wrote:On July 04 2011 16:07 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 16:06 Kiante wrote:On July 04 2011 16:05 d_so wrote:
thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison. You're missing the point here. We dont want your dumb changes. For gods sake dont post this. If you get nevake shut down, there will be a mob of angry BW fans... that mob of angry fans is still watching GOM TV casts. gomtv doesn't cover bw. so im really lost here. i mean like those angry fans who got pissed cuz gomtv eliminated all restreams and VODs on youtube. remember that? like a year prior.
That was for star 2. You can still download gom classic off the website or use their player. They don't charge for bw. Still confused why you want to bother with this?
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On July 04 2011 16:12 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:10 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 16:09 Baarn wrote:On July 04 2011 16:07 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 16:06 Kiante wrote:On July 04 2011 16:05 d_so wrote:
thx for the feedback guys, when we post it in Korean I'm going to make it much more explicit that I'M NOT PROPOSING A PAY PER VIEW MODEL. And i'll also use the Daily show and comedy central as a comparison. You're missing the point here. We dont want your dumb changes. For gods sake dont post this. If you get nevake shut down, there will be a mob of angry BW fans... that mob of angry fans is still watching GOM TV casts. gomtv doesn't cover bw. so im really lost here. i mean like those angry fans who got pissed cuz gomtv eliminated all restreams and VODs on youtube. remember that? like a year prior. That was for star 2. You can still download gom classic off the website or use their player. Still confused why you want to bother with this?
? I'm proposing the same thing. Eliminate youtube channels and put it on a kespa website. So that they are accessible, but through a kespa site. That way they can get clicks which they can hopefully convert to money.
i'm not saying eliminate and don't replace. I'm saying make a good, kespa based alternative and then remove.
Can i ask you honestly like... did you read the article? And if you did, was it that unclear? Because the ideas you are getting are completely different from what I have written, but if everyone keeps getting to that conclusion then that means I've done a poor job as a writer.
u can PM me ur response btw. I'm not flaming you, i really want to know.
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i feel the reason they're pushing for china is the advertisers--mmo developers who have a large chinese following. no matter how big the english audience may be--if they aren't playing those games it wouldn't make sense to invest.
who knows? maybe scbw in china would be so big that part of the return in investment could go into donated english casting just to placate the vocal english audience.
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