Daniel just check how few people voted in this poll and you get a pretty good idea of how small the foreign bw community already is. And if the changes you suggest will be implemented it will decrease further. It is nothing but a fact that only a small percentage of X people will pay for something that used to be for free, if it is not necessary for their life.
As someone from a demographic that I'm sure 80% of people here will hate, I'm one of those guys who plays SC2 and doesn't really care about BW. However, I always read the articles and I find the scene interesting, but it's so hard to get in to a game when I don't know what's going on. I can see what's happening and all, but I really need that analysis.
Put it this way, if there was an English cast I would likely watch Proleague/MSL/OSL.
On July 04 2011 20:50 Ruscour wrote: As someone from a demographic that I'm sure 80% of people here will hate, I'm one of those guys who plays SC2 and doesn't really care about BW. However, I always read the articles and I find the scene interesting, but it's so hard to get in to a game when I don't know what's going on. I can see what's happening and all, but I really need that analysis.
Put it this way, if there was an English cast I would likely watch Proleague/MSL/OSL.
eton7402 has been doing live english casts of some PL games. there are a few youtube commentators. sayle commentated some finals and does foreign BW casts. theres enough english content around for someone who wants to get into it to get into it. once you get to a certain level of understanding, the korean commentary becomes better and you move on.
I only want better quality streams ( for free lol ). I don't want English casters for bw. Anyway it won't happen. The average foreigner audience for a PL match is less than 1K and even MSL / OSL finals are below 5K.
On July 04 2011 15:45 Vipsanius wrote: Yelling korean casters you can't understand is a fun part in brood war and shouldn't be removed.
Yea that's an important part of the bw folklore too.
Your plan works perfectly and korean vods/streams are replaced with high quality, monetised, official english content. I think almost all BW fans prefer Korean at this point and would not be happy to pay for a downgrade. This outcome is only preferable for the some of the SC2 crossover audience. BAD.
Your plan works poorly and korean vods/streams are replaced with low quality (non-live, unrealiable connections, laggy, bad quality, etc) monetised, official english content. This is straight up worse for everyone. BAD.
Your plan is a disaster and blows up in our faces, resulting in nevake being closed down and both TL and the streaming sites being forced to oppose restreaming. This kills foreign BW. Also everybody now hates you. BAD.
Your plan fails and Kespa igores you. Things continue as they are now. NEUTRAL.
Unless I'm missing something there is not a single positive outcome that can come from this. The only neutral outcome is Kespa ignores you. If you feel I've missed a possible outcome please fill me in, if you feel I've missrepresented the result of an outcome then please, do the same.
If I haven't then please for the love of BW leave it alone.
One step at a time my friend. Kespa decided to go China first. Then if that works I am sure they will look at the West next.
But in the west, the true hurdle is the "international IP rights", to most people it's also "America's International IP right". West is Blizz's home turf. Kespa is going to have a HARD time expanding there after all the recent drama. Also "maybe" the legality of certain aspects in BW is still unclear, and China's "don't interfere others' policy" foreign approach is perfect for Kespa operation.
If this China thing works out. Then we are going to see "BW East" vs "SC2 West".
edit: also bear in mind that China already has regular casting(probably illegal resteam but Kespa don't care) of every single BW matches for a long long time and their caster are very good at it. So the structure/audience is already there although simple compare to Korea's.
But to break into a foreign market with a sport, electronic or otherwise, you DO NOT try to run profit from Day 1. You engender support through loss-leader tactics that are long-term in strategy. Only when you hit that critical mass can you think about sustaining a profit-orientated business model.
edit: also bear in mind that China already has regular casting(probably illegal resteam but Kespa don't care) of every single BW matches for a long long time and their caster are very good at it. So the structure/audience is already there although simple compare to Korea's.
From what I've seen on the Chinese BW sites (wfbrood and all), they have a community setup that is very much like Teamliquid, and in many cases, you could argue their livecasting and whatnot are superior.
On July 04 2011 21:49 hauton wrote: BW had its chance, it's well over by now.
But to break into a foreign market with a sport, electronic or otherwise, you DO NOT try to run profit from Day 1. You engender support through loss-leader tactics that are long-term in strategy. Only when you hit that critical mass can you think about sustaining a profit-orientated business model.
The view figures on Chinese VOD say otherwise. At the moment it's 10-20x of SC2(source: plu/youku). If you keep track of the Chinese starcraft scene then you already know that both TW and China sc2 server are suffering from big user lost(hence the new pricing plan announced by the operator. source: plu/wfbrood)
I am sure you already heard that Hacks/Abuse is rampant in China/TW SC2 servers and Blizz is banning them. Why? Because people are dumping their Sc2 subs! Why not try out some hack since you are gonna quit anyway. Blizz can keep banning people, but not many are signing up. SC2 1.0 is dying at a fast pace in China/TW, all eyes are on the expansion.
In term of StarCraft analogy, I think Kespa have missed their timing window!
The IDEAL time for English to be hired was RIGHT after the elimination of GSL (yes the one and the only true original GSL not GS2L). I remembered people going crazy about Tasteless not being able to cast anything more. NOW if OGN/MBC (Kespa) hired Tasteless then, when the foreign scene is still very much at the peak of the interest, SC:BW would boom in the west with a caster.
Actually screw that, they should hire Artosis as well as Tateless and keep SDM there as well. Tasteless to hype things up, Artosis for technical gameplays and SDM to keep bridging things up (translate of what happened if some unexpected events comes up).
Plus, they should contracted Tasteless/Artosis to keep them casting in BW as a regular job and cast SC2 in their spare time in streams of TS2L and other events. That would simultaneously boost both scene to ensure that e-Sport have the brightest future possible.
On July 04 2011 21:23 Lachrymose wrote: Your plan works perfectly and korean vods/streams are replaced with high quality, monetised, official english content. I think almost all BW fans prefer Korean at this point and would not be happy to pay for a downgrade. This outcome is only preferable for the some of the SC2 crossover audience. BAD.
Your plan works poorly and korean vods/streams are replaced with low quality (non-live, unrealiable connections, laggy, bad quality, etc) monetised, official english content. This is straight up worse for everyone. BAD.
Your plan is a disaster and blows up in our faces, resulting in nevake being closed down and both TL and the streaming sites being forced to oppose restreaming. This kills foreign BW. Also everybody now hates you. BAD.
Your plan fails and Kespa igores you. Things continue as they are now. NEUTRAL.
Unless I'm missing something there is not a single positive outcome that can come from this. The only neutral outcome is Kespa ignores you. If you feel I've missed a possible outcome please fill me in, if you feel I've missrepresented the result of an outcome then please, do the same.
If I haven't then please for the love of BW leave it alone.
Not that I support the idea but a positive outcome you missed would be a KeSPA/OGN/MBC official Youtube channel where they just upload all VOD's from here on out and gain global advertising + a little cash on the side from a Youtube partnership while either leaving Nevake's VOD's alone or integrating them into their own channel.
Theres enough research from Korean companies delving into Youtube as marketing to probably convince them but the only issue here is whether they leave Nevake's archive alone. Is it worth the risk of losing all we have now? I don't think its worth it personally, but I also don't think anyone here would have a problem with the above scenario. It's just too much to risk. (i.e. Everything)
What would that actually change though? The video quality on Nevake is nice, we would see a marginal improvement at best. Would they be as fast to upload as the Nevake channel? The security that it would never get copyright-killed in the future?
Really, that scenario is virtually no different to them ignoring it.
actually,now that I think about it,the fact that they haven't touched nevake or the streamers so far now and actually encouraging the streamers should mean something right?.......Right?
exactly the same here, i'd watch gsl whenever there isn't bw on, but gom's refusal to stream through anything other than their proprietary player (coupled with tl playing ball with gom and killing restreamers) means i've not watched anything of theirs in about six months. otoh i missed basically nothing of dreamhack/homestory/mlg columbus
Daniel just check how few people voted in this poll and you get a pretty good idea of how small the foreign bw community already is. And if the changes you suggest will be implemented it will decrease further. It is nothing but a fact that only a small percentage of X people will pay for something that used to be for free, if it is not necessary for their life.
tbh the poll's been up for about 4 hours from when you posted and much of europe is at work/school, america's just waking up, or we were all watching skt/cj instead
On July 04 2011 20:48 IntoTheWow wrote: It's past the time to look at the foreigner market. This should have happened right after the GOMTV Leagues, not now.
I just want my korean brood war daily like im currently getting. I could care less about english casters. Streams work, live report workers, vods work, interviews work. We got all that through hard work. Why should we risk everything we have for some more viewers?
I say no.
Exactly what I though. Those moves should have been made a long time ago, now it's too late, we're just a small community.
On July 04 2011 15:31 d_so wrote: As a second or third language, the number of English speakers ranks first in the world. Compared to China, Kespa could potentially reach as many people by investing in the English market, but with far less risk.
source? did you know you're wrong here? go do some research and discover that chinese mandarin is the most spoken language in the world
The only idea I'm willing to support is if KeSPA/OGN/MBC take over the nevake channel and start uploading the content themselves and make it a YouTube partner account. YouTube has the bandwidth and those mini ads would generate quite a bit of revenue. It would also show strong promise for a huge increase in quality and possibly using YouTube's CC ability to add in soft subs. Getting rid of nevake will not only kill Brood War but have you labeled as enemy #1 in the eyes of all foreigners.
On July 04 2011 15:31 d_so wrote: As a second or third language, the number of English speakers ranks first in the world. Compared to China, Kespa could potentially reach as many people by investing in the English market, but with far less risk.
source? did you know you're wrong here? go do some research and discover that chinese mandarin is the most spoken language in the world
read the bit right before you bolded. while you're probably right as far as a first language go, there's an awful, awful lot of people that speak english as a second language, mandarin not so much
On July 04 2011 15:31 d_so wrote: As a second or third language, the number of English speakers ranks first in the world. Compared to China, Kespa could potentially reach as many people by investing in the English market, but with far less risk.
source? did you know you're wrong here? go do some research and discover that chinese mandarin is the most spoken language in the world
This is only because of the sheer population size of China. English has the strongest international influence in the world (Lots and lots of nations have English as a secondary language).
EPT
