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On July 04 2011 17:33 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 17:32 kdgns wrote:On July 04 2011 17:31 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 17:29 Lightwip wrote:On July 04 2011 17:26 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 17:19 Lightwip wrote:On July 04 2011 17:14 moopie wrote:
Look d_so, regardless of what you think or what your goal is, what you are doing is writing an article saying "Hey KeSPA, nevake on youtube has a ton of copyrighted content and teamliquid regularly restreams unauthorized streams.... want to deal with us?"
Now regardless of if the answer is yes or no (and even in the case of yes odds are it wont be free and/or as good/accessible, might lag and will have commercials), you are going to cut off the foreign community, period. You said yourself currently MBC charges for vods, so surely they will cease and desist on nevake, streams, etc, regardless of anything.
In essence, what you are doing is killing an already dying community, in the hopes that maybe some day, there is potential for a way to re-do the foreign community.
Leave it alone, this community is tiny, its not going to grow, and we are trying to make the best of it. I agree with this and suggest that you remove the article. i'm not going to remove it but i will think heavily on how to word it when i write it in korean. xBillehx pmed me some really relevant stuff regarding youtube that has given me serious reason to reconsider. basically, all the hate is predominatly directed at 1 thing: stopping youtube vods and restreams. This thread has become 100 percent about saving nevake, and I may have made a mistake regarding my stance on that. But i'm not out to get nevake or nething, so please don't misconstrue my intent. I certainly don't mean stop trying, I simply mean that in its current form, your idea will simply hurt us. Reworded, I'm sure we'd be glad to support your ideas. well here's the good thing about writing things in English first: no one important reads it lol =P. The main thrust of this argument will be the korean version of this article. would love to see the final version (translated or summarized in English of course) well we'll probably edit the english one to match the korean one. It really comes down to changing a few sentences. Thanks for all the feedback peoples!
I still think you are gonna represent the foreign community when the stance so far is nobody is completely in favor of your proposals. I guess you have some personal agenda you want to pursue and elected yourself to do something that isn't needed. What makes you think mbc and ogn will consolidate vods onto 1 website and keep the same fees in place?
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What does the English-speaking market look like presently? Here are some statistics:
> A popular Youtube channel, youtube.com/nevake, boasts over 9,000 VODs of Korean Broodwar games with over 20,000 subscribers, nearly 7 million channel views and 26 million video views.
WHAT 9000
User was warned for this post
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As much as I don't like SC2, there is no real SC BW English speaking market.
They could have tried 4 years ago.
Right now who are they going to hire as English casters anyway?
Also, because there are no foreign players, there is going to be less foreign interest. In SC BW we had foreigner only tournaments and people watched them despite the level of play being lower. Korean people were banned because top amateur no name Koreans would pick up all the price money and foreigner fans didn't want to see 4th rank Koreans play.
If Kespa is going to care and try to make money, the first thing they will do is shut down Kespa matches on youtube.
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I agree with everything that moopie has said.
I also don't think there is an English market for BW. The English market cares about SC2 right now; casual viewers will be drawn to SC2 because it's what's hot now, and English BW casters is not going to change that.
It seems you have good intentions, but this is a big risk and in the end could result in killing the foreign community instead. A lot of us rely on VODS since we can't watch matches live. If there were to be a transition to an official KESPA sanctioned channel, there is no guarantee the collection will be complete, free, and available to all the countries that will depend on that site. Don't fix it if it isn't broken please.
Also think about the uploaders and all the time they spent uploading VODS for us. It is not easy to upload every game for years on end with no compensation other than the gratitude of the community.
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The situation is fine as it is. Leave it alone. As an English speaker, I do not feel ignored. I like the Korean commentary. I liked it even before I started learning Korean and it's helped me to learn Korean.
If MBC hires English-speaking casters, do you know where part of the funding for that will come from? Resources that could otherwise be used for running the HERO team or running MSL. So no thanks. The channel is operating on a shoe-string budget as it is. Don't make things worse. I don't need more players from the team to be sold every season.
Edit:
I sincerely urge you NOT to translate this into Korean, especially since it does not represent how the majority of foreign BW fans feel. It will hurt the community more than it will help it.
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I would just like to see more foreign BW players in Korea 
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On July 04 2011 16:09 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:04 mutantmagnet wrote:On July 04 2011 16:01 Lucumo wrote:
Absolutely agree with this. The stream-/vod-system is perfectly fine as it is and I really like the commentators. There is no need for change. Tell that to jon747 and his subscribers. Jon747 was taken down because of WCG, it had NOTHING to do with Kespa.
That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that VODs currently are located on youtube and youtube has had an increasing tendency to take down material at the behest of another party.
The vod system is anything but perfect because of this and compared to a couple of years ago has become increasingly riskier to deal with than the possible alternative of Kespa being the central database for future vods.
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There are currently 700 people watching CJ vs SKT on Nanashin's channel. A number of those would drop if restreaming were to become illegal. That's not really much of a market.
The English BW community is really small with little potential for growth. Your intentions are good but I don't think this will ultimately prove to be worthwile
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Agreed.
d_so, dont fuck up.
This is serious shit here, too much is at stake to poke the bee nest to see if you can get some extra honey.
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On July 04 2011 18:21 Ikonn wrote:
There are currently 700 people watching CJ vs SKT on Nanashin's channel. A number of those would drop if restreaming were to become illegal. That's not really much of a market.
The English BW community is really small with little potential for growth. Your intentions are good but I don't think this will ultimately prove to be worthwile
Actually restreaming is illegal in the US and currently the latest debate in the government is to upgrade it from a civil offense to criminal offense. But this is a side issue I won't go any further into except to say if you feel passionate about the restream scene contact your Congressman and pressure others to do the same to make sure this isn't elevated to jail time and becoming a pariah in the job market.
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I think it is far too late for that. The vast majority casual foreign fans that you try to catch are or will soon be hooked by starcraft 2 and the die-hard core of foreign broodwar fans prefer things as they are now. Nevertheless, it is worth a try. I could never stand how the Korean BW organizers ignore the foreign market.
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Australia7069 Posts
On July 04 2011 18:33 JustPassingBy wrote:
I think it is far too late for that. The vast majority casual foreign fans that you try to catch are or will soon be hooked by starcraft 2 and the die-hard core of foreign broodwar fans prefer things as they are now. Nevertheless, it is worth a try. I could never stand how the Korean BW organizers ignore the foreign market.
Worth a try? You think its worth risking our livestreams and vods getting shutdown completely, to be replaced by.....vods and livestreams? probably of lower quality. that makes absolutely no sense.
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The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really bad decision. Please reconsider.
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Huge newz, it could improve or decrease massively the futur of SCBW depend on how it will be make.
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As part of the community I feel the need to raise my voice.
My opinion is the same as many before me, I would not risk losing something already there for something that is claimed beneficial but not guaranteed.
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On July 04 2011 16:01 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:01 TheGlassface wrote:
Oh...maybe I should've read the article because I have never in my entire life heard one English caster that makes me want to watch...
Go Korean or go home. I just want to be able to have a site to stream from because it's hard to set up as of current.
It's like soccer. Spanish FTW tasteless i thought was a pretty sexy caster when he was casting for GOMTV itnernational
if u need a proper caster for this, you should skip tasteless etc. try to make a research on; there is a tv program in Ariang (korean tv channel) that is doing good broodwar episodes and there are those korean dudes there that are analyzing and doing commentary on good games and giving tips etc. those guys had pretty good accent and as for commentary; they are probably the best english commentators imho, both in fluency/speed, game analyzing, spot on comments/good calls and so on. so much like the original korean commentating, it is amazing.
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On July 04 2011 18:21 Ikonn wrote:
There are currently 700 people watching CJ vs SKT on Nanashin's channel. A number of those would drop if restreaming were to become illegal. That's not really much of a market.
well to be honest, he would have had more viewers if he stops the weirdo comments at right bottom and stops opening unrelated and weirdo videos between the games.
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On July 04 2011 18:59 Reyis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 16:01 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 16:01 TheGlassface wrote:
Oh...maybe I should've read the article because I have never in my entire life heard one English caster that makes me want to watch...
Go Korean or go home. I just want to be able to have a site to stream from because it's hard to set up as of current.
It's like soccer. Spanish FTW tasteless i thought was a pretty sexy caster when he was casting for GOMTV itnernational if u need a proper caster for this, you should skip tasteless etc. try to make a research on; there is a tv program in Ariang (korean tv channel) that is doing good broodwar episodes and there are those korean dudes there that are analyzing and doing commentary on good games and giving tips etc. those guys had pretty good accent and as for commentary; they are probably the best english commentators imho, both in fluency/speed, game analyzing, spot on comments/good calls and so on. so much like the original korean commentating, it is amazing.
From what I've seen on our TV, Tastless was in that show at arirang. Not sure which episode(some random gom classics), but I can remember hearing him there.
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d_so, have you been outside South Korea, at least long enough to really get an idea of SC1's popularity here? I really don't think you realize how dead SC1 is outside of Korea. Let me put it to you this way: At least 15 of my real life friends play Starcraft 2.. 0 of them play Starcraft 1. And it's been that way for years. I am pretty sure most people here are like me, I'm the only person of my friends group that play BW, I had some friends that played it maybe 8-10 years ago, but outside of the OCCASIONAL university (like Waterloo or Duke, and I'm not even sure this is the case anymore), Starcraft 1 is really dead. Almost every foreigner that watches Starcraft 1 probably really enjoys it the way it is, and we like it that way.
Seoul really is an anomaly for the way pro gaming has grown there.. In an extremely compact area, you have 20 million people in a culture that loves video games and the idea of Starcraft 1 competition really took off there. It's really really hard to even see Starcraft 2 taking off worldwide even CLOSE to the way Starcraft 1 took off in Korea. The culture in the European countries and North American countries are a lot different, we are far more attached to sports than video games compared to the Asian market, and we're simply WAY to spread out to capitalize on any momentum the way SC1 did in Korea.
Anyway, the point being that the way Starcraft 1 is just fine with us, it's not going to grow, and if Nevake's vods got removed I'd be SERIOUSLY pissed off.
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On July 04 2011 19:05 Jienny wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 18:59 Reyis wrote:On July 04 2011 16:01 d_so wrote:On July 04 2011 16:01 TheGlassface wrote:
Oh...maybe I should've read the article because I have never in my entire life heard one English caster that makes me want to watch...
Go Korean or go home. I just want to be able to have a site to stream from because it's hard to set up as of current.
It's like soccer. Spanish FTW tasteless i thought was a pretty sexy caster when he was casting for GOMTV itnernational if u need a proper caster for this, you should skip tasteless etc. try to make a research on; there is a tv program in Ariang (korean tv channel) that is doing good broodwar episodes and there are those korean dudes there that are analyzing and doing commentary on good games and giving tips etc. those guys had pretty good accent and as for commentary; they are probably the best english commentators imho, both in fluency/speed, game analyzing, spot on comments/good calls and so on. so much like the original korean commentating, it is amazing. From what I've seen on our TV, Tastless was in that show at arirang. Not sure which episode(some random gom classics), but I can remember hearing him there.
yea he have made few appearances there long ago :p
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EPT
