EPT Rainbow in the NASL
Grubby promotes macro cheating? - Page 23
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legaton
France1763 Posts
. First win in a very very long time. | ||
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LeBroom
Germany67 Posts
How is using simple keyboard macros cheating? People even got banned in WoW for that. In WoW you could just Macro a 2min Fight... and go AFK, it was like a Bot! | ||
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nehcnhoj
United States213 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:11 Jibba wrote: I can't believe this needs to be explained further for so many people. Macro keyboards are acceptable. Macro keys are useful in Windows and other applications, and are even allowed in some other games. Blizzard supports large keyboard manufacturers, who include these software packages to enable macro keys because of their stated utility. Blizzard does not support the use of this software, despite promoting the keyboard itself, in their own games. Razer, Steelseries, Saitek, Logitech and others all make keyboards with macro keys and software packages that are useful for every day use. Only Steelseries is promoting their usage in SC2, a game in which it is banned. Grubby is doing the promoting. He is not just selling a keyboard with macro keys, the way Blizzard does on their site. He is not just selling the software package to show how macro keys can be used in Windows or other programs. He is selling the software package to show how macro keys can be used in Starcraft 2, a game in which they are explicitly banned and punishable. Go to 1m21s in the video. He is not just selling a keyboard. I've tried to read through the majority of the thread, but it's really been growing at an unreadable rate. I agree that what Grubby has done here is on a whole a mistake on his part. However, I disagree with your stand. You seem to imply that Grubby's main intention here is not selling the keyboard, but selling the the features of the keyboard being used in a game that is directly in violation of its ToS. I find this bordering ridiculous. Grubby has been a professional in E-sports at the highest level for years. Here he is promoting for his sponsor, one of the biggest gaming apparel companies, for one of the main features in their products for arguably the most popular PC game around. You can either choose to believe, his key intention here is promoting the exact usage of the keyboard which is illegal, or that he is "just selling the keyboard." I personally feel, Grubby is just selling the keyboard. Regardless, what I'd really like to know is, since a TL Mod has a negative stand with regards to Grubby's role in this matter, does this in anyway affect his "featured" status on TL streams? He has one of the most entertaining streams, I wouldn't want to miss out just because of this. | ||
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Nick!
Scotland701 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:36 legaton wrote: Hahaha, at least we know now how he did to beat+ Show Spoiler + Rainbow in the NASL In the NASL* | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:28 Simberto wrote: You're right. When they say "keyboard" they actually my mean "enchanted poney". When they say "increase your APM" they actually mean "fly through a rainbow". It all depends on how you interpret what they actually said. + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2011 03:15 VIB wrote: Yea...right: "The gaming experience will enhance drastically due to one-touch macros and the ability to fully customize each key. This Limited Edition Keyset is a valuable tool for StarCraft II players looking to immerse themselves in the game and improve their performance and actions per minute (APM)." - http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142 Now: What you read is, that it makes you better by using macros that press multiple keys at once, and help you win at SC2. But that is not what is actually written there. What is written there are the following statements: 1. The keyboard has one-touch macros and full customizattion. This will make your gaming better. (Note: Not necessarily in SC2, could also be for example in Baldus Gate, or any other game) 2. The Keyboard is good for SC2 Players who want to immerse themselves into the game and improve their performance and APM. (Not: This keyboard improves your performance and APM in SC2) This means that there is not necessarily any improvement coming from the keyboard, just that it is a good thing if you are the type of person that wants to improve themselves. Basically, a competative gamer. As with any statement by lawyers or companies, one needs to be extremely careful to actually read what they write, and not what one thinks they mean.  | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:34 VIB wrote: Number of people banned for macros like the ones grubby show in the video, on all history of blizzard: zero They cannot detect short macros like this on their end. They'll only ban you for long term bots that rolls for hours. That's just not true. Blizzard has done several banwaves during WoW where people using G15 and Nostromo macros were banned, and they did it in BW and they've done it in SC2. Their official stance is that it's a bannable offense, regardless of whether it's 100% automated or 5% automated. | ||
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:35 zul wrote: you`re wrong. reproducing 50 supply in speedlings takes me about 3 seconds pressing down "z". With a macro I could do the same in less than half a second. imagine this kind of stuff adding up during a whole game. Congrats you have saved 10 seconds the entire game. Not that useful and your opponent doing this is still not affecting your play experience. | ||
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:35 zul wrote: you`re wrong. reproducing 50 supply in speedlings takes me about 3 seconds pressing down "z". With a macro I could do the same in less than half a second. imagine this kind of stuff adding up during a whole game. pressing down Z is quite easy, but imagine it dumbing down a cpl of more complex features like: putting groups 1 through 4 in group 8, then select group 8 thats : 1 shift 8 2 shift 8 3 shift 8 4 shift 8 8 This shit happens in 1 milisecond, and this is just a small part. Imagine 1 milisecond reproduction of 6 marines, 3 marauders, 2 thors , 2 medivacs and 2 vikings. an this can go on and on ............ saying macro keyboard doesn't help you is retarded | ||
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Elairec
United States410 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:39 Egyptian_Head wrote: Congrats you have saved 10 seconds the entire game. Not that useful and your opponent doing this is still not affecting your play experience. It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. | ||
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:36 legaton wrote: Hahaha, at least we know now how he did to beat+ Show Spoiler + Rainbow in the NASL yeah cause grubby uses the shift. oh wait no he doesn't | ||
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HeLToFF
Sweden11 Posts
They could start like a Blizzard-home-raid-squad that comes home to your house and inspect all of your computer gear i guess ^___^ | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:11 Baarn wrote: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1302702180#15 actually they do. as nobody seems to read what Blizzard Support wrote there: From what I understand, Overpowered, you simply want to move one in-game function (= selecting a specific unit in a group) from its default key (= backspace) to another of your choosing, which you have available in your keyboard? Correct me if I misunderstood you, of course. Were you to program multiple functions onto that same key, an execute them all with just one keypress, that wouldn't be ok. I don't see a problem with what you propose however; you're basically just changing a keybinding. | ||
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Vulcano
United States147 Posts
On June 10 2011 00:15 T3tra wrote: A macro allows you to do two (or more) actions in the time that it takes to normally do one. It's an unfair advantage. Now obviously this isn't going to be game breaking at lower levels, but when you're masters league or higher, where the speed at which you do your actions really makes or breaks a game, it's not fair. to elaborate with similar type situation, look at WoW macro freedom.. even the most vegetable of a player can set up spacebar to cycle through all the best 'motions' in an attempt to feign actually having knowledge and ability of the game principles, or simply to overpower ppl who DO understand the principles and mechanics. The only limit to how many things they can get one button to do, is in the 255 char text limit. Granted, any high level player can work around these gimmicks, which is all they are, since there is no understanding behind it, it still begs the question as to why any players who appreciate any game would want to replace understanding and practice of execution with a program or shortcut keys that do it for you. the bottom line is, these tools are crutches, and if you learn what they are trying to get out of you, gameplay wise(dem principlez), you wont ever need them(the crutches, not dem principlez). EDIT: sry for the massive change of direction i just wantd to spout about whether or not macro usage should be in the sc2 community -- personally i thnk grubby just making money, steelseries shoulda been more on top o things, and no one should bother violating the ToS | ||
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Leeto
United States1320 Posts
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:44 JFCycWalker wrote: It's applied to more than just producing lings as Grubby showed. You can create two full medivacs ready for a drop in the press of a key. Instead of cycling through different types of buildings to create marines and medivacs, just hit that one button and divert your attention elsewhere. Sure it isn't much time overall, but it just ruins it for those that do it legitimately. How does it ruin it for you? Your opponent playing better for whatever reason is not ruining anything for you. Because of how the ladder works you will not face him unless battle net thinks you are evenish in skill. So you wouldn't even be facing him unless you had a decent chance to win. Its not like map hacks where he can see what you are doing. It makes it easier for him and doesn't change a thing for your play experience, only his is changed. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:39 Egyptian_Head wrote: Congrats you have saved 10 seconds the entire game. Not that useful and your opponent doing this is still not affecting your play experience. Please, man, please. Stop talking about what you don't know and never tried. Imagine there is a huge battle, with lots of actions, your money is rising because you're too busy to kite with your army. Losing 1ms to spend those 1k versus spending 3 seconds is HUGE. But maybe you're at a level where you can afford to lose SECONDS in tough fights. EDIT : I've tried Macros during Beta for curiousity. I know what I'm talking about. I immediatly stopped after 1 day of laddering as unfair this shit was | ||
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intoyourrainbOW
United States168 Posts
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Ludwigvan
Germany2373 Posts
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tuho133
120 Posts
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
On June 10 2011 03:36 legaton wrote: Hahaha, at least we know now how he did to beat+ Show Spoiler + Rainbow in the NASL Haha, that made my day. . It's mind boggling how people don't think that multiple actions done in one key press is not cheating (Pressing 6 to create two medivacs autoloaded with marines, yeah ok). Even though Blizzard has always been god awful and slow and banning cheaters, using macros that alter gameplay still violates the ToS. Grubby should just man up and apologize to the community. | ||
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