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On June 10 2011 03:05 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 03:03 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 02:58 PigglyWinks wrote:On June 10 2011 02:54 VIB wrote:This is not cheating.Blizzard themselves support this: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142This topic is years late, this showed up for the first time when blizzard started selling wow keyboard with macros. Blizzard officially responded to this many times on the forums and they completely support this. If you don't like it, you only have blizzard to blame. Not steelseries nor grubby. So should we believe the Battle.net ToS or should we believe what some Blizzard forum people allegedly said many years ago in relation to a completely different game? Seems like quite a few people in this thread use these macros... Blizzard ToS, under "stuff you should not do" "2.1 create or use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Service, any Game or any Game experience;" Seems to be exactly what those macro keyboards do. Obviously the exact interpretation of this lies with blizzard. And they have often times stated how they interprete macros. Not a bot - check Not a hack - check Not a mod/software modifying the service, game or game experience - check A mouse/keyboard is not targeted by this and I don't know why so many people think it is. Blizzard has never cared for your input devices.
Oh really, something that does 5 things for you at a push of a button is not a bot? It does not modify playing experience? I think not...
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On June 10 2011 03:07 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 03:05 grs wrote:On June 10 2011 03:03 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 02:58 PigglyWinks wrote:On June 10 2011 02:54 VIB wrote:This is not cheating.Blizzard themselves support this: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142This topic is years late, this showed up for the first time when blizzard started selling wow keyboard with macros. Blizzard officially responded to this many times on the forums and they completely support this. If you don't like it, you only have blizzard to blame. Not steelseries nor grubby. So should we believe the Battle.net ToS or should we believe what some Blizzard forum people allegedly said many years ago in relation to a completely different game? Seems like quite a few people in this thread use these macros... Blizzard ToS, under "stuff you should not do" "2.1 create or use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Service, any Game or any Game experience;" Seems to be exactly what those macro keyboards do. Obviously the exact interpretation of this lies with blizzard. And they have often times stated how they interprete macros. Not a bot - check Not a hack - check Not a mod/software modifying the service, game or game experience - check A mouse/keyboard is not targeted by this and I don't know why so many people think it is. Blizzard has never cared for your input devices. can you not read? ![[image loading]](http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9687/macros.png) god you're silly
As someone else wrote above: Blizzard customer service/GMs are the lowest tier in their foodchain. The chance to get one to even answer a simple question correct is close to zero.
Btw, there is no reason to call me stupid, only because I have a different opinion!
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On June 10 2011 03:02 XsebT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:57 RBKeys wrote:On June 10 2011 02:46 XsebT wrote:On June 10 2011 02:44 RBKeys wrote:On June 10 2011 02:38 XsebT wrote:On June 10 2011 02:34 RBKeys wrote:On June 10 2011 02:29 XsebT wrote:On June 10 2011 02:27 RBKeys wrote:On June 10 2011 02:18 Klipsys wrote:On June 10 2011 02:06 Sensator wrote:
It's just a commercial, he gets sponsored and payed by SteelSeries, so he's promoting the product. Are you serious? He's a PRO GAMER, advertising a product that UNDERMINES COMPETITIVE GAMING! How does it undermine competitive gaming? Any worth while tournament is going to make some kind of ruling against something like this, and if they don't or fail to enforce their rule then it's their own fault. Competitive gaming is fine lol. Grubby just promoted map hacking. Now read your comment. Now back to me... get it? It's not map hacking -- it's simplifying game controls. Besides that, you should READ my comment "How does it undermine competitive gaming?" It doesn't because it's not allowed in competitive gaming. No it's not map hacking, and that's not my fucking point. They both represent an unfair advantage, but apparently map hacking is much worse than having a bot doing controls for you? What is your point then? You obviously made a point about saying "Grubby just promoted map hacking" and took my comment about this products affect on competitive gaming right out of context. I really feel like I shouldn't have to explain this. I wanted you to read your own comment, but with map hacking as the issue, in which case you'd probably disagree with yourself. I still don't understand what you are getting at. My initial comment would be the exact same if it was maphacking. Whether it's a keyboard or a program that some dude is running to gain an edge, it's going to be ruled out of competitive play; thus, competitive gaming isn't at risk -- at least, at anymore risk than it already is. So you wouldn't mind Grubby promoting map hacking?
What he was saying in the first place is that grubby is hired to say lines for money. Stop putting words in his mouth
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United States22883 Posts
I can't believe this needs to be explained further for so many people.
Macro keyboards are acceptable. Macro keys are useful in Windows and other applications, and are even allowed in some other games.
Blizzard supports large keyboard manufacturers, who include these software packages to enable macro keys because of their stated utility.
Blizzard does not support the use of this software, despite promoting the keyboard itself, in their own games.
Razer, Steelseries, Saitek, Logitech and others all make keyboards with macro keys and software packages that are useful for every day use.
Only Steelseries is promoting their usage in SC2, a game in which it is banned.
Grubby is doing the promoting. He is not just selling a keyboard with macro keys, the way Blizzard does on their site. He is not just selling the software package to show how macro keys can be used in Windows or other programs. He is selling the software package to show how macro keys can be used in Starcraft 2, a game in which they are explicitly banned and punishable.
Go to 1m21s in the video. He is not just selling a keyboard.
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On June 10 2011 03:05 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 03:03 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 02:58 PigglyWinks wrote:On June 10 2011 02:54 VIB wrote:This is not cheating.Blizzard themselves support this: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142This topic is years late, this showed up for the first time when blizzard started selling wow keyboard with macros. Blizzard officially responded to this many times on the forums and they completely support this. If you don't like it, you only have blizzard to blame. Not steelseries nor grubby. So should we believe the Battle.net ToS or should we believe what some Blizzard forum people allegedly said many years ago in relation to a completely different game? Seems like quite a few people in this thread use these macros... Blizzard ToS, under "stuff you should not do" "2.1 create or use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Service, any Game or any Game experience;" Seems to be exactly what those macro keyboards do. Obviously the exact interpretation of this lies with blizzard. And they have often times stated how they interprete macros. Not a bot - check Not a hack - check Not a mod/software modifying the service, game or game experience - check A mouse/keyboard is not targeted by this and I don't know why so many people think it is. Blizzard has never cared for your input devices.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1302702180#15
actually they do.
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On June 10 2011 03:05 Catreina wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:48 Slardar wrote:On June 10 2011 01:25 Jibba wrote:On June 10 2011 01:25 Chinchillin wrote:
Nice slanderous title The title is the exact situation. Regardless of whether Blizzard does it too, Grubby is promoting a way to cheat in SC2. The counterarguments about Blizzard are just a red herring (although as I said before, Blizzard's actions are dubious as well.) I'm sorry I had to log in from work just to debate this. How is Grubby promoting cheating in SC2 here Jibba, are you serious? Not only that, this title is horrendously misleading and slanderous, Grubby doesn't deserve that. He's not TELLING you to go macro-cheat, what I got from this is this; he's condoning the use of macros and showing you how to use them. Everyone has already pointed out Razer & Blizzard sell similar type of keyboards which can do the same thing, SteelSeries is just putting that in motion here by showing you how to go about using these functions present on the keyboards. I can best relate this with an analogy like this one: You are being taught how to use a Rifle. Does that mean the teacher is condoning the murder of human beings or animals? You can stretch that border of accusation, and if anything we can agree it's controversial; therefore this title should err on the side of neutrality/caution in the matter. Obviously the intent here isn't to promote "cheating", SteelSeries isn't an ignorant company to promote something illegal. You should watch the video, and then try to see your comment here in the context of said video. He is showing you HOW TO CHEAT using the macro capabilities of the keyboard, allowing 12+ actions to be performed in a single keypress (a bannable offense in any Blizzard game, if used at any time). In other words, HE IS PROMOTING CHEATING. Please, try to watch the video and read the responses prior to posting your idiotic analogies. A better one would be "you are being taught how to kill a human with a rifle..."
seriously calm down. it's just a commercial. this thread is full of people making mountains out of molehills. macros have been around forever and not a new issue. grubby got paid to do that and i would too. do i use macros? hell no lol why would I? but even blizzard's keyboards have macros in them...
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Well, this could turn out terrible for SteelSeries and Grubby. And it only took one stupid video.
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dont blame grubby. hes making scrilla.
blame steelseries.
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he's not necessarily promoting them for use in Starcraft. just because he's a Starcraft pro, there are other games and uses for computer y'know
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On June 10 2011 03:08 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 03:07 PigglyWinks wrote:On June 10 2011 03:05 grs wrote:On June 10 2011 03:03 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 02:58 PigglyWinks wrote:On June 10 2011 02:54 VIB wrote:This is not cheating.Blizzard themselves support this: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142This topic is years late, this showed up for the first time when blizzard started selling wow keyboard with macros. Blizzard officially responded to this many times on the forums and they completely support this. If you don't like it, you only have blizzard to blame. Not steelseries nor grubby. So should we believe the Battle.net ToS or should we believe what some Blizzard forum people allegedly said many years ago in relation to a completely different game? Seems like quite a few people in this thread use these macros... Blizzard ToS, under "stuff you should not do" "2.1 create or use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Service, any Game or any Game experience;" Seems to be exactly what those macro keyboards do. Obviously the exact interpretation of this lies with blizzard. And they have often times stated how they interprete macros. Not a bot - check Not a hack - check Not a mod/software modifying the service, game or game experience - check A mouse/keyboard is not targeted by this and I don't know why so many people think it is. Blizzard has never cared for your input devices. It is most certainly a bot. It is not. Never has Blizzard regarded using macro input devives botting. Please give me a single example.
Bot - automated actions
Macro - automated actions from multiple keypress events performed after a single keypress event.
See the similarity? Know that people get banned for using AutoIt scripts in Diablo 2/WoW/Warcraft3? Know that people get banned for using macros in those games? Know that the same can and does happen in SC2?
Macros automate events, a bot automates events. Both are bannable, both are detectable, and both have resulted in people losing their accounts. Please read and comprehend a bit better.
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I give this up. If you insist on believing Blizzard has ever banned people because of a macro mouse or keyboard, I can't stop you. In the unlikely event you might get unsure in your opinion in a future time, please go and search for one documented incidence of them doing it.
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On June 10 2011 02:59 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:56 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 02:54 VIB wrote:This is not cheating.Blizzard themselves support this: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142This topic is years late, this showed up for the first time when blizzard started selling wow keyboard with macros. Blizzard officially responded to this many times on the forums and they completely support this. If you don't like it, you only have blizzard to blame. Not steelseries nor grubby. This has been posted like 5 times in this thread, and you need to learn to read carefully what they actually write about that keyboard, and compare it to what you think they mean. Hint: It is not the same. Seriously, they sell a macro keyboard for SC2. And simply because they don't say you should use the macros themselves in SC2 makes it different? I am sorry, it does not. Blizzard has never ever cared for macroing. The only thing they banned people for, is them not sitting in front of the screen while macroing or using third party software interfering with the game data. Also http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169418900 and similar products have been out for ages too. Where is the difference?
the problem isn`t the actual product, but the advertisment by one of the biggest Names in eSport. He promotes hardware, that gives you a technical advantage and therefore the fair-game aspect is gone. Grubby stands for a hardworking competitor who won his matches through hard work and talent. With this Advertisement he forces the impression that he uses this "make-stuff-easier-for-me" equipment to beat other players and this sucks. Personally I dont believe he uses macros, but some of his Fans will think so and they will think it is ok to use it to win games. Which is not.
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On June 10 2011 03:12 karlmengsk wrote:
he's not necessarily promoting them for use in Starcraft. just because he's a Starcraft pro, there are other games and uses for computer y'know
Did you watch the video lol? He explained how to use it in Starcraft 2.
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So If I get this right :
Blizzard doesn't really have an official position about keyboard macros.
As they are selling some, but in the other hand, people using multiple actions (5+) on one sigle button could be banned.
But this is was on the wow forum. So it's curently impossible to know what is legal or not in SC2.
Some rules would tell you yes, other will tell you no.
Blizzard need to have a official post about this situation, as nobody really know what is admited and at wich scale.
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On June 10 2011 03:11 Jibba wrote:
Blizzard does not support the use of this software, despite promoting the keyboard itself, in their own games. Yea...right:
"The gaming experience will enhance drastically due to one-touch macros and the ability to fully customize each key. This Limited Edition Keyset is a valuable tool for StarCraft II players looking to immerse themselves in the game and improve their performance and actions per minute (APM)."
- http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142
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Huge fail by SteelSeries. I hope they remove the video soon to keep some credibility.
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On June 10 2011 03:02 XsebT wrote:
So you wouldn't mind Grubby promoting map hacking?
If we hung off of every word and/or action a progamer said/did then I'm sure the game would be much more "Idra-centric." What Grubby did with endorsing this product holds no credence to the argument I was making. If he wants to endorse something, that's fine, his endorsement has no broad impact (if any) on any governing body in competitive starcraft 2 (I.e., those who run the league). Please keep things in context: "undermining competitive gaming" is the topic I was addressing.
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The level of debate in this thread is now at a point where it would actually be improved if it were to derail into an argument about whether Select is Korean or foreign. Good grief.
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On June 10 2011 03:13 zul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:59 grs wrote:On June 10 2011 02:56 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 02:54 VIB wrote:This is not cheating.Blizzard themselves support this: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001142This topic is years late, this showed up for the first time when blizzard started selling wow keyboard with macros. Blizzard officially responded to this many times on the forums and they completely support this. If you don't like it, you only have blizzard to blame. Not steelseries nor grubby. This has been posted like 5 times in this thread, and you need to learn to read carefully what they actually write about that keyboard, and compare it to what you think they mean. Hint: It is not the same. Seriously, they sell a macro keyboard for SC2. And simply because they don't say you should use the macros themselves in SC2 makes it different? I am sorry, it does not. Blizzard has never ever cared for macroing. The only thing they banned people for, is them not sitting in front of the screen while macroing or using third party software interfering with the game data. Also http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169418900 and similar products have been out for ages too. Where is the difference? the problem isn`t the actual product, but the advertisment by one of the biggest Names in eSport. He promotes hardware, that gives you a technical advantage and therefore the fair-game aspect is gone. Grubby stands for a hardworking competitor who won his matches through hard work and talent. With Advertisement he forces the impression that he uses this "make-stuff-easier-for-me" equipment to beat other players and this sucks. Personally I dont believe he uses macros, but some of his Fans will think so and they will think it is ok to use it to win games. Which is not.
you obviously don't watch commercials on TV in the U.S. Plenty of big names are sponsored by the most ridiculous stuff. Doesn't mean they actually use them...I don't think Danica Patrick actually uses godaddy
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i hate grubby, inb4 warning/ban
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
