EPTStarcraft and Poker - Page 7
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Dave[9]
United States2365 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
"To be blunt.. Poker is not a complex game. At least not for me and contrary to you perception I know the game. That is one of reasons there are far many more players of poker than chess players, its simplicity. Even proffesional players will tell you the learning curve is short. When you play in casino's carding does take some training but there is nothing complex about that either." Carding? What are you talking about what do you mean by that? This is truly sad. I'm not even going to bother responding to such idiocy but I'll let any other rabid wolf on this forum eat you alive! | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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nL69)Rabbit
Botswana19 Posts
Its my contention that poker ads and promoting gambling in general is not a serious threat to the starcraft community and its 66% split of adults to underagers. This is assuming the poll Drone quotes when it shows that 2/3 of the visitors to teamliquid.net are of age. I find it ironic that you sir can preach away about the path poker will pave for those who play. "I see more and more threads about online gambling in our Starcraft community and this worries me because I know were it will lead those who follow that path." What about the path that those that play Starcraft go down. What happens to them? To beat an old horse I'm going to say it anyway, the very fact that you say "when our game is Starcraft, not poker, and most of our gamers are children or teenagers. It sets the wrong example and it will even foster some very bad habits in our future." truly shows your blind and misinformed stance on this starcraft vs. poker debacle. To prove my point here is my rebuttal to your short article. To begin with there are a few things everyone needs to understand and assume as high probability's. 1. Starcraft has ruined on a percentage vs. population basis as many underage/young adult lives as poker/gambling has or will. 2. Luck in Starcraft at its moderately above average to highest levels is in direct preportion to that of cash texas hold'em. There is no doubt in my mind as to why similiar groups of progamers show up time after time in the major leagues, or why top level proffesional poker players place and win tournament after tournament. 3. The skills needed to be succesfull in high level Starcraft happen to be ridiculously in tune with the exact skills needed for texas hold'em. For reference sake I will clarify and then go into more detail later on in the rebuttal: Above Average to Genius level intelligence and analytical skills. The ability to notice small details and act quickly according to your encyclopedia of strategies and experience. The ability to read a person based on how they act. The ability to perform under stress. Anyone who says starcraft is not stressful has never played at a high level. The ability to go into "auto-pilot" and instead of thinking just let experience take over and play for you. It is said that any top poker player knows instinctively what he's going to do in the first 5 seconds of a new situation arising just as any Starcraft player does. The ability to multitask and give nine different situations the attention they deserve simultaneously. The drive,dedication and ambition to achieve the highest level possible without letting something like a loss here or there get in your way. So that last point doesn't get thrown in my face it should suffice to say that I'm assuming any starcraft player that loses consistently will end up only playing for fun as will any poker player. There are many more similarities but for simplicity sake the above mentioned should hold. To prove my points I will present different case studies. Case Study #1 1. Starcraft has ruined on a percentage vs. population basis as many underage/young adult lives as poker/gambling has or will. To illustrate this point I present my own life for examination. I played starcraft/broodwars for 7 years straight between the ages of 13 and 20. I'm now 22. Between that time I would lend a guess that I played hard an average of 3-5 hours a day and chatted, watched vods/replays for another 5-7. The math adds up to roughly 7056 hours spent playing actual games and 11 760 hours discussing, strategizing and watching games for a grand total of close to 20 000 hours or 2.2 years straight 24/7 of starcraft play and discussion. Those numbers are calculated only using the low numbers in the average, I'm certain I probably invested more time than that but for simplicity sake it will suffice to say that I spent 35-40% of my time in the starcraft world for my entire teenage period young adult period. In 1995 when I was introduced to Starcraft I was an honours student just about to enter high school in the presigious International Baccalaurette program for Gifted Students. I lived in a semi-broken middle class home. My stepfather and I hated eachother. My mom drank a little too much and smoked too much pot plus we had just moved to a new city. I had the summer before school began to spend as I wished and so saw fit to play 12-16 hours a day. My only goal was to become top 100 in ladder which I did successfully. I was hooked. Right around this time then X'ds~Grrrr... started to profit from his gaming experience, earning him sponsorships and the "life" as most of us at that time would be lead to believe. I had a new goal. Seeing that it could be done, playing the game that I loved for a living, I practiced harder than ever. If a then 17 year old Giyom could do it then why not me? I continued to play 10 hours a day, forsaking all homework and assignments. I managed to pass grade 10 with something like a 65% average using only test scores and what assignments I could finish in the morning before school started. My stepfather and I continued fighting like crazy. My mother continued drinking too much and smoking too much. I was unpopular in school and had joined a small group of people whom are now my best friends but at this time more for survival then anything. The six of us were similar and would end up all growing together from hardcore nerds with fucked up lives into decent tax paying adults. Grade 11 something crazy happened though. 18 year old Grrr went to Korea. There was so much electricity and hype in the air. Everyone thought for sure that they were going to be next, it was only a matter of practicing harder, being in the right place at the right time. Thoughts of sponsorship wafted through everyone I knews dreams making the majority of our screwed up lives that much easier to deal with. I continued playing hard all through grade 11 once again forsaking school. Then my parents dropped a bomb thinking it would be wise for me to get a "real job" for the summer. I instead told them I hated them and escaped to my grandparent's for summer break. My grandparents are easy. I played 16 hours a day no problem with no complaints plus all the pop and munchies I could imagine. Before I left my parents I left a "suicidal poem" in a place my mom would for sure see it. When I returned home they were a lot easier to deal with but only for a short time. I think they were definately afraid of what would happen if we all continued fighting(I never trully was suicidal but faked it a bunch of times). I remember once grade 12 started that we had our class photo's taken. Shortly after someone showed me my grade 11 picture and man had I gained weight over the summer, like 70 lbs. I went from 6'4 210 lbs to 6'5 280lbs and a few months later over 300 lbs. Grade 12. I was still beyond hooked. Everyone I played with was as well. The gifted students program that I was in was funny, we only had to go to school 1/2 the time because it was assumed we were genius's and would make the most of the 1/2 we didn't have to be at school. Whats funny to look back on now was that as a requirement for the program we had to volunteer 75 hours a year and I did my time at the addiction and gambling hotline, talking on the phone to those desperate for help! So back to only being at school 1/2 the time, the other half I played bw's nonstop and a few weeks into grade 12 completely stopped going to class. I showed up only for major tests, without any preparation. I remember the last day of finals in the 1st semester I was called into the principals office and we started going over my absences. 66 in 75 days. WOW. Whats funny is that my high school has a "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy on absenteeism and you were supposed to be expelled after 13 THIRTEEN MISSES!. Whats funnier is that it was totally waived in my case because I was in IB. They had never had anyone drop out in the history of the program or not graduate, so they quietly swept me under the carpet. They called my parents and informed them as to what was happening and guarnteed my graduation as long as I passed my next semester. No repremands, nothing but smiles. My parents banned me from the computer and I rebelled even harder. I started fighting physically with my step dad, staying over at friends house's(so that I could play starcraft all night without hassles) and when possible sneaking into my parents office when they weren't home to use the computer. I remember the day they came home and caught me, I ended up punching my step dad right in the nuts when he tried to grab me from behind at the computer and then running and locking myself in my room. Later that night he knocked on my door showed me a key to a $300 lock system he had installed on the office. It was ok though cause when they went out of town for a funeral a week later I had a locksmith come over and make me a key for $40! So I passed high school barely and graduated. I decided to take time off from going to university, mostly because my grades weren't good enough and to piss my parents off even more. A month after graduation when my parents were supposed to be out town for the weekend I had a party at the house and a bunch of stuff ended up getting broken. Plus for most of the party I was in the office playing Starcraft and a bunch of people had came in and russled stuff around that I hadn't noticed. Being that my parents are anal clean freaks they had noticed the supposed locked office was dirty and that the house was dirty in all the places I hadn't thought to clean(fingerprints on the wall). I was at work when they came home. My stepdad showed up at the Subway I was working with my toothbrush/paste a few other essentials, my wallet and said your out see you later have a good life. So basically I was just turned 18 and fucked. As luck would have it though I had applied for College for the next semester and had a bunch of student loans coming my way. So I went to the bank and applied for mastercard/visa which of course they had no problem giving me since I was now a registered college student! First time on my own, huge credit limit....you do the math. I bought a computer and played starcraft endlessly. Nobody to stop me now. I cut my friends out of my life. When school started up I told myself I wouldn't fuck myself up. I made it halfway through the first semester when all these people started hitting it big in korea. Instead of playing 8-10 hours a day I started ditching school and playing 16-18 hours a day. My life was starcraft. I used all my student loans to finance my lifestyle, living and breathing starcraft. I used what little money I had left to buy nice clothes and make an appearance towards my parents as haha fuck you I'm doing just fine. I continued on like this for a year and a half before I had so many creditors calling me, so many bills due, non-payment on rent for 2 months in a row before I finally got a job. During that year and a half of 24/7 starcraft I did whatever neccessary to scrape buy. I got overdraft at any bank that would have me and I used it all. So after all that, I picked myself up and got a real job. I sold my computer and stopped playing broodwars. I still have never payed anything off. For the last two years I've ran away from reality. Last year I hitchhiked from Calgary all throughout North America and Mexico for 9 months. Then I discovered Tofino on Vancouver Island. I've been here since, surfing and working my ass off to become normal for once. Those nine months of homeless hitching and wandering were really good for me. I saw the absolute bottom of the barrel. I have learned so much about myself, who I am, what I have done and where I'm going that its astounding. Nonetheless I am only in the last year now really getting my life back on track. I'm making good money as a fish farmer, I own a van and live in a very nice house. Fuck I even have a dog and obviously a computer. Whats the conclusion of this 1st case study? I am only a minor case of how fucked up your life can get as a result of Starcraft. I know personally of many more dramatic and shocking cases. Everything I did to myself, I won't argue against that. At least I can fix what I did, all it takes is time. Poker can do these same things true. But at least in poker an above average player will make money. I never saw a single penny from broodwars. Will I play poker? You bet your ass I will. I have been playing hard for the past while and will continue on this course. I have invested 2.2 years of my life into starcraft, the least I can do is take the skills I learned and use them for something profitable. Why did I never become a progamer? I blame it on speed and micromanagement, two things I just could never seem to get my mind around. If I had the speed of Yooi and the micro of Xellos well then things probably would be a lot different. My life would still be fucked but at least I would be in Korea! Life is really to short to play what if's though. I meant to conclude this part by saying I wish that someone had shown poker to me around this time in my life. I do believe things would be a lot different, for better or worse I don't know. I wasn't aware just how addictive my personality was, but broodwars was not getting me anywhere even though I lived on the dream that it would. Case Study #2 2. Luck in Starcraft at its moderately above average to highest levels is in direct preportion to that of cash texas hold'em. There is no doubt in my mind as to why similiar groups of progamers show up time after time in the major leagues, or why top level proffesional poker players place and win tournament after tournament. I definately do not need to go deep into this. Look at Boxer, Grrrr, Yellow or for that fact any progamer. They have all enjoyed continued success. Some on higher levels than others, but the fact is that they are being paid to play Starcraft at a high level. They have all won tournies and will all continue to place and win. On the reverse look at the top WPT poker players. Don't think for a second that these guys are only making money off of poker. Think about book deals, sponsorships, promotional opportunities. That aside, it is guarnteed that they are all profiting off there ring skills as well because they have the skills and the experience. They will all be able to live off there knowledge for the rest of there lives, because it doesn't matter how long the cards go cold for they WILL win in the long run. Texas holdem is that kind of game as is Starcraft. Case Study #3 3. The skills needed to be succesfull in high level Starcraft happen to be ridiculously in tune with the exact skills needed for texas hold'em. For reference sake I will clarify and then go into more detail later on in the rebuttal: Above Average to Genius level intelligence and analytical skills. The ability to notice small details and act quickly according to your encyclopedia of strategies and experience. The ability to read a person based on how they act. The ability to perform under stress. Anyone who says starcraft is not stressful has never played at a high level. The ability to go into "auto-pilot" and instead of thinking just let experience take over and play for you. It is said that any top poker player knows instinctively what he's going to do in the first 5 seconds of a new situation arising just as any Starcraft player does. The ability to multitask and give nine different situations the attention they deserve simultaneously. The drive,dedication and ambition to achieve the highest level possible without letting something like a loss here or there get in your way. So that last point doesn't get thrown in my face it should suffice to say that I'm assuming any starcraft player that loses consistently only plays for fun as will any poker player. There are many more similarities but for simplicity sake the above mentioned should hold. Do I really need to go into more detail. This point was to prove moreso that although poker is a game of chance which Starcraft is as well that the above mentioned skills take a high majority percentage of what is needed to win the game. On a final note I would just like to say thank you Physician for writing your article. It seemed this debate needed to come up sooner or later. I have nothing against pushing gambling from an advertising and discussion standpoint on those that play starcraft. It is my hope that anyone who has also devoted so much time to developing the skills needed to play high level starcraft will make the transition over to poker where the profit for those skills is virtually guarnteed. Someone with top level starcraft experience will make money in poker 9 times out of 10  And for those that don't I believe they are not going to be foolish enough to keep throwing there money away. Be reasonable in your expectations, play hard to meet your expectations and remember that its not only a game its real life. Play Starcraft and Gamble. Play Poker and Gamble. Might as well make a profit. Donnie Gabriel Murray | ||
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TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
Ofcourse poker is some gambling, but its mostly based on % ... and we all know that if u play after % u will win in the long run...and that is what the smart kids does. On starcraft u probably wont earn much $, and in poker u will probably earn some or alot of money after a couple of months if u get learned by someone good and u actually know what u are doing. Simply : BW is nothing u can earn money on and it will never be...earning money is fun and that is what poker is about...nothing else, i dont think the game in itself is much entertaining unless there is money in it...for my own part i still enjoy computer games more than poker but im still practising poker with my friends and such to see if its something for me. right now... Poker > Starcraft in many ways...there are not many ppl who makes money in starcraft...there is not as big of a market as many would think =] | ||
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ProudCappi
United States366 Posts
 Very good response. ggnore | ||
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VdP]EpiphaNy
United Kingdom992 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28647 Posts
and not all that many koreans either playing starcraft cause its a whole fucking lot of fun is something millions of players has accomplished =] | ||
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nL69)Rabbit
Botswana19 Posts
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20041221/1a_cover21.art.htm Interesting stuff. | ||
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Daishi
United Kingdom106 Posts
I played for a living for a year. I played a third of a million hands, and consistently won. That is not luck. I may not be the best player around, but I'm certainly in the top couple of percent, and I'm there because I know an awful lot about the game, and I understand how to make money at it. There is skill in online poker. If there were not, there would be no professional players. I do not gamble, I have NEVER played any casino games bar poker, and have NEVER placed a bet on any event (except for $5 with friends, about trivialities). 85% of poker players lose. 10% break even. 5% win. Many of the Starcraft players who claim they win are actually breaking even, and some are losing. That's the nature of the game - it's based purely in the long term (so as to avoid statistical variation), and so short term wins can convince you that you can beat the game when you cannot People can choose for themselves whether they play or not. I do not think that poker sites should advertise on battle.net for sure, but anywhere else, and it's the player's choice. Anyone can go to the shop and buy chocolate - it's advertised everywhere. If they get fat, is that their fault or someone elses? If someone becomes an alchoholic because they saw Bud advertised on TV and started drinking out of control, is that their fault or not? You are responsible for your own actions. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28647 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Rekrul and I were talking about it. A comparison between poker/starcraft/chess: actually I'll just post the msn chat: 12/24/2004 12:33:18 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. To be blunt.. Poker is not a complex game. At least not for me and contrary to you perception I know the game. That is one of reasons there are far many more players of poker than chess players, its simplicity. Even proffesional players will tell you the learning curve is short. When you play in casino's carding does take some training but there is nothing complex about that either. Reply 12/24/2004 12:33:29 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. =] 12/24/2004 12:34:10 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision err 12/24/2004 12:34:20 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision thats a reply to that forum thread, not to me, right? 12/24/2004 12:34:25 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. yeah 12/24/2004 12:34:29 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. well 12/24/2004 12:34:31 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Entropy sent me that 12/24/2004 12:34:33 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. in private message 12/24/2004 12:34:40 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. (entropy is physician on TL) 12/24/2004 12:35:12 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision well hes dumb cuz that isnt relevant at all 12/24/2004 12:35:22 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision its simple in that its easy to learn, not master 12/24/2004 12:35:31 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. yes 12/24/2004 12:35:35 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. i've always said 12/24/2004 12:35:38 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision if it was so easy wed be out of a job 12/24/2004 12:35:48 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. poker is simple to learn complex to master 12/24/2004 12:35:54 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. starcraft is complex to learn but simple to master 12/24/2004 12:36:11 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision hehehe 12/24/2004 12:36:14 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision thats a funny saying 12/24/2004 12:36:20 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision kind of true though 12/24/2004 12:36:51 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision just reply to entropy with 12/24/2004 12:36:59 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision 'if that was true me and alot of people i know would be out of a job' 12/24/2004 12:37:06 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision not much he can say to that, unless hes stupid 12/24/2004 12:37:24 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. lol 12/24/2004 12:38:20 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision and the reason there are more poker players than chess players is because its a more social game/much more fun 12/24/2004 12:38:25 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision u play poker to have a good time 12/24/2004 12:38:28 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision u play chess to win 12/24/2004 12:38:44 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. ya 12/24/2004 12:38:53 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. how can he say chess takes more skill too 12/24/2004 12:38:59 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. that game is hella memorization 12/24/2004 12:39:05 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. well, a lot of it is 12/24/2004 12:39:41 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision ya 12/24/2004 12:39:44 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision to put it simply 12/24/2004 12:40:07 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision its easier to make a computer that can beat top chess players than it is to make one that beats top poker players  12/24/2004 12:40:10 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision wow say that to him 12/24/2004 12:40:15 AM Dan - x-ray vision you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. haha 12/24/2004 12:40:18 AM you think heman ever played recreational frisbee? prolly was too busy. Dan - x-ray vision owned lol | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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TheGreenBeret
United Kingdom548 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
they are there to have fun and gamble i give it to them, they give me their money. no one is forcing them to play. | ||
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
"and I will not argue that poker in person requires a degree of skill..". be good if people read too..still the article is not about poker or skill required for poker ~ its about promoting online gambling through adds and other kick backs in the starcraft community.. yes the gambling industry is heavily promoting it in the different gamer communities, and yes gambling poker adds are everywhere, but they are here due to a choice of the webmasters of this site.. It does not have to be that way, just my feelings about the subject. Why? Because I like this forum and I think the gambling influence is wrong. As for - we are all repsonsible for our own actions - true.. even children and teenagers carry a responsibility for their own actions, and everyone is not inmune for the consequences of them.. Ask yourself who really benefits from the adds? Ask yourself why are they here? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On December 24 2004 10:35 Physician wrote: Let me repeat myself.. "and I will not argue that poker in person requires a degree of skill..". be good if people read too..still the article is not about poker or skill required for poker ~ its about promoting online gambling through adds and other kick backs in the starcraft community.. yes the gambling industry is heavily promoting it in the different gamer communities, and yes gambling poker adds are everywhere, but they are here due to a choice of the webmasters of this site.. It does not have to be that way, just my feelings about the subject. Why? Because I like this forum and I think the gambling influence is wrong. As for - we are all repsonsible for our own actions - true.. even children and teenagers carry a responsibility for their own actions, and everyone is not inmune for the consequences of them.. Ask yourself who really benefits from the adds? Ask yourself why are they here? this is a site for people who think for theirselves. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
So that's how missinformed you are about poker (Rekruls post). Let's move on to the StarCraft part. StarCraft has taken alot from peoples lifes. These 'young' people that you do not want to be playing poker are already playing a highly addictive game which brings them nothing substantial in the future (except for FUN which is really, really important but that *also* goes for poker). They are playing this game every day spending many hours of their lifes. This game we promote through our site knowing it might be bad for a few of you out there to stay hooked to it. This is the dark side of the medal. As long as we want to offer you the pleasure of StarCraft information and community we are going to have to accept that there's people among you for who StarCraft is a bad thing rather than a good. I assume you can probably identify with this as most people have broken their CD once or twice themselves. Starcraft is not a kids game anymore. It's the oldest game by threefold at WCG and its gamers have grown up to become adults. It's not a bunch of kids visiting Team Liquid, most of us here are adults and you won't find many Americans who are not allowed to drive a car. As they are adults they can now make their own decisions whether or not they want to play poker. They should be old enough. Also you are not allowed to play poker under 18. And on top of that minors do not have any way to cash in money to pokersites unless permission is asked from an adult (creditcards). They simply can't steal cash in real-life and use it to play online poker. Poker is a dangerous game let there be no doubt, realize whether or not you can master it while staying completely objective. If the answer is no don't think you are going to win by pumping more money in, because it is NOT a game of luck. It is a game of skill and when you do not have this skill you will be consistently losing. It is not a lottery, but just like SC a game where strategy, insight and gut-feeling are very important. In fact StarCraft is a pretty good indicator to show which players will be good and which will not. To end this I would want to ask you to name me 1 person that signed up at poker through Team Liquid that is having the problems you described. Name me one. Please. Just one. Ask yourself who really benefits from the adds? Ask yourself why are they here? First I just want to say how sad you are for always having something to say about TL. In case some of our readers missed it Physician's aka is Entropy (starcraftgamers admin) taking any opportunity to bash our site. It gives me the feeling the reason of your post is not nobility, but jealousy. However I do think with this topic you have brought up a valid discussion that had to be adressed sooner or later. This is a WEBSITE. And it is not yours. It is mine. When you are watching TV you will see all kinds of adds (TV is a service for which you actually PAY already, this website is for FREE). Casino's, alcohol and whatnot. Do you actually call up the TV station to make complaints about it? 99% of the commercials are meant to make money of people that are easily influenced. Whether it's for a casino or a clothing company their sole goal is to make profit. You buy cloths; you have something to wear, you go to a casino; you go there to have a good time. Just like how you pay for a night of bowling. I do agree that gambling is something that should be kept away from children. But as I already stated I haven't heard of any kiddo depositing (and losing) money into PokerStars because of our adds. As so many have mentioned before me Poker is a game of skill. It's more like playing a strategical game for money than gambling, comparable to a StarCraft tournament with entrance fee. Ask yourself who owns this website which is providing the best possible StarCraft news for free. | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
But then again he gave me all the money I lost oo~ | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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