EPTStarcraft and Poker - Page 5
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scrapperdog
United States779 Posts
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draeger
United States3256 Posts
Now let's move this to poker. Theoretically, the only people who are legally allowed to gamble are people who are over the age of 21. By this age you are either about to graduate college or have already gotten a full-time job in the real world. This full-time job allows you more financial flexibility than a 16 year old who flips burgers for $6/hr for 15 hours a week. The only dangerous part of poker is if you are playing in games that you really cannot afford to lose at. For instance, if I jumped into a $5/$10 game on pokerstars that required a bankroll of $1000 to play properly, I would be playing with money that I could not afford to lose. However, to somebody who makes $150k a year, playing with $1000 is nothing special. It would be equivalent of me playing a $20 buy-in with friends. As long as you are playing with money that you can afford to lose then poker is not only fun and rewarding, but it also gives you a chance to take that money and turn it into even more. As you become financially responsible, you begin to be aware of what money you need to have for your expenses and what money can be spent for entertainment. Playing poker with your entertainment money is not evil or corrupting at all. In fact, it's no different than somebody spending $2000 a year on dvds, car audio, magic cards, comic books, fixing up old cards, or whatever their hobby could possibly be. Also, as others have said: The ads on this site are not really that harmful for the younger audience because in order to deposit money on the website, they are forced to find a credit card. If they do not have a credit card, they have to talk to their parents about it. If they do, then they should be intelligent enough to know that you don't buy something with your card that you cannot afford to pay for. Further, I guarantee that ANYBODY on this forum could be on the telephone and into a home poker game within a couple days of reading this post. Poker is everywhere now and to sit back and call it evil or corrupting is ridiculous. Everybody who plays poker doesn't win money: TRUE, but with even a slight amount of poker knowledge that sets you above your average player, you will generally come out ahead in the proper games. | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Let's say entropy is very misinformed when it comes to both poker and brood war (in terms of both how you play it and why some people are good at it etc), that does not change the whole point of the article: THE POKER ADS ON THIS SITE MAY BE HARMFUL FOR SOME AND IS NOT NEEDED, WHY KEEP THEM!? That is what some of you fail to read, in between the lines. Now, the last part of that statement I cannot be sure of. Is the money you get from the ads needed, and have you no other client who would like to advertise on this site? Are the poker ads a MUST for this site to survive? If that is the case, they benifit to the community and should be kept. Otherwise I don't understand why they are needed. It is like this, just because you can see the same kind of ads on every other site in the whole web doesn't mean that they have to be here, does it? It is not our (the starcraft players) site but it is our community and we should do everything we can to keep it alive and keep it morally correct also? If the ads can influence young children to play poker (it is not hard as an underage to play poker. Me and my friends registered at expekt.com, played some freerolls and have since then made >1000 dollars), and we all agree on the fact that they shouldn't, why need we keep the ads here? And I think it is better to remain humble, than to claim superiority over others - -V | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28920 Posts
disagreeing with online poker not requiring a high amount of skill agreeing with gambling being inherently bad.  im quite certain I could be a good poker player if I put my mind to it and made serious effort at being good. I have most if not all of the common traits among good poker players cept greed for me to make money on poker someone else (who probably needs the money just as much if not more than I do) ends up losing it thats just not cool. I'd rather have a job that actually somehow contributes to society personally. gambling is really, really fun though. and I do occasionally play poker, both irl and online. but I'll never use it as a source of income, at least not a serious one. | ||
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draeger
United States3256 Posts
On December 23 2004 09:48 ParasitJonte wrote: It is like this, just because you can see the same kind of ads on every other site in the whole web doesn't mean that they have to be here, does it? It is not our (the starcraft players) site but it is our community and we should do everything we can to keep it alive and keep it morally correct also? I still haven't seen anyone explain how poker is "immoral." How is advertising poker on this site any different than the advertising done for TLT a while back? Both of them encouraged starcraft players to spend money while neither option guaranteed any sort of profit from doing so. Even if underage players don't play online, they still have access to unlimited numbers of home games. My 17 year old younger brother has practically every poker accessory you can buy as well as a bi-weekly game that he plays in. I guarantee (as I said in my above post) that any underager who visits this site can find the exact same thing without using online poker. As far as whether the advertisements are necessary, I cannot say for certain. However I do know that this website pulls in a LOT of traffic and bandwidth a month. Paying for that is definitely not free or cheap. Advertisements help defer the cost so that Meat is not shelling out a lot of money every month from his own pocket to keep the website alive. Would you rather see poker advertisements or mandatory $1 payments from every person who wants to contribute at the beginning of each month? If the ads can influence young children to play poker (it is not hard as an underage to play poker. Me and my friends registered at expekt.com, played some freerolls and have since then made >1000 dollars), and we all agree on the fact that they shouldn't, why need we keep the ads here? Your last paragraph killed your argument. In fact, it probably did some persuading for the side that you are arguing against. There's quite a contradiction when you say "Underage gambling is bad.. but me and my friends did it anyways and made $1000." Do you think that's going to deter anybody from doing what you deem immoral? | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
If you call Meat immoral or unethical for doing this then you're a total fuck-tard...it's the parent's job to keep their kid off the poker, not ours. | ||
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Keanu_Reaver
Djibouti1432 Posts
you made a good point that advertising gambling in the presence of minors is pretty tactless (even though this is a privately owned website) but it was lost in your complete lack of knowledge on poker. and being upset because another game is taking players away from sc is just silliness | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Personally, I have no problems with poker NOR the ads. I play it myself as I said. My post was trying to clairify Entropys message and to agree with it to a certain extent. I realise now that it was somewhat poorly written T_T. But I just didn't feel like revising it  draeger. I didn't mean that poker was immoral, just that advertising it on such sites as teamliquid may be. And the last quotation, I didn't mean that I was against the ads or poker. My aim was simply to adress all who argue for the ads in an odd way to see it from entropy's perspective which was that "IF we agree that underage gambling is bad, why need we keep the ads here?". Yes I understand that my first whole post seems as one big support to entropy but that wasn't exactly my intention.... Hope it is clear now =O | ||
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draeger
United States3256 Posts
On December 23 2004 10:19 ParasitJonte wrote: draeger. I didn't mean that poker was immoral, just that advertising it on such sites as teamliquid may be. And the last quotation, I didn't mean that I was against the ads or poker. My aim was simply to adress all who argue for the ads in an odd way to see it from entropy's perspective which was that "IF we agree that underage gambling is bad, why need we keep the ads here?". Yes I understand that my first whole post seems as one big support to entropy but that wasn't exactly my intention.... Hope it is clear now =O If underage gambling is bad, it should be the responsibility of the online poker site and the parents of the underage gambler who should be worrying about it. If you open up your weekly newspaper (which anybody can read), you see advertisements for alcohol and possibly tobacco related products. Just because they appear in something that is read by people of all ages does not mean that the newspaper is responsible for kids who are able to purchase alcohol. It's the fault of the store that sells it to them. Finally, if you look at a poll that was taken here a little while back, you will notice that 66% of the community is over 18. I don't know for sure about the other parts of the world, but I know 18+ in Europe allows you to do most things that an adult can. But regardless, anybody over 18 has the right to make their own decisions and in the process of growing up, they need to decide what is right and wrong and in the case of a bad choice, learn from it. If you're going to argue about the morality of exposing people under 18 to gambling, you might as well start filtering the site's content because there are constantly topics on drugs, sex and violence, as well as quite a bit of profanity used within those (and other) topics. If you feel that underagers are being exposed to bad things, you might want to start by arguing for something other than a little 120x60px banner at the bottom of the page. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On December 23 2004 09:35 draeger wrote: Ack1027, instead of trying to judge your friend on the "quality" of his hobby, why not just accept the fact that people have the right to do whatever they want with their time and money? If he wants to play MTG, let him play. He's spending his own money and is not hurting anybody but himself. . Uh yeah he is hurting others. MTG is cardboard cards. Material possesions. By getting the rest of his friends to play with him and encouraging the whole thing he is hurting people. I'm not saying MTG is a bad game, it's how you play it. And unfortunately many people play it the wrong way. By the way people don't have the ' right ' to do whatever they want if it's their time and money. I don't know what country you live in. | ||
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ProudCappi
United States366 Posts
Perhaps choosing to use the advertised product is, but not the ads. | ||
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mmm.beer
Canada412 Posts
I personally think you are crazy to try to do this for a living without a backup career plan. However, if you want to play it as a hobby (like I do) or more seriously go ahead and buy in with $50 dollars and try the low-limit tables. But there is no reason why you should EVER need to buy in again. If you cannot make money on the low limit tables with your $50 you should not be there. | ||
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SCFraser
Canada1534 Posts
On December 23 2004 10:01 Rekrul wrote: If you call Meat immortal or unethical for doing this then you're a total fuck-tard...it's the parent's job to keep their kid off the poker, not ours. Well i dunno about immortal.. | ||
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draeger
United States3256 Posts
On December 23 2004 11:39 Ack1027 wrote: Uh yeah he is hurting others. MTG is cardboard cards. Material possesions. By getting the rest of his friends to play with him and encouraging the whole thing he is hurting people. I'm not saying MTG is a bad game, it's how you play it. And unfortunately many people play it the wrong way. When you can proclaim that you have no material possessions, you can judge others for theirs. If you can tell me that you only have the bare essentials to get by in life, I'm sure I'll find something else that you have which is material. The computer you're using: If you're not at a public library or at work, it's a material possesion. If you have ever splurged on clothes: material. If you decided to spend an extra $200 on car accessories to make getting from place A to place B more comfortbale: material possession. If you have ever purchased a cd, dvd, vhs, or anything that plays those, you should know that they, too, are material possessions. The truth is, material possessions make people happy. People enjoy to have a long grocery list of items that they can proclaim they own. Why else would people buy huge houses, sports cars, paintings, etc? Who cares if he is attempting to persuade other people to play a game? It's no different than me telling a friend "Wow, you need to buy ___________ because it's really cool." In fact, you're telling people in your other posts that they should be playing BW instead of MTG. You are, in fact, doing the exact same thing you are complaining about, yet you feel it is justified because you enjoy BW more than MTG. I hate to break it to you, but peer pressure exists in all aspects of life. Those who succumb to something that they do not want to do are weak-minded not fucked by the system or the game. By the way people don't have the ' right ' to do whatever they want if it's their time and money. I don't know what country you live in. That was badly worded, but it still is generally correct. As long as your actions are not impeding on the freedom of others, you are allowed to spend your time/money on whatever you want. | ||
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loztdignity
Sweden176 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
unless you put in a lot of work yourself or are taught by someone who is very good, there's no easy way to get good at it. nobody simply "gets it" right away. the main thing is what some people have already said--it's how you manage the money you have. regardless of how good you are if you can't properly risk the money you have in your account you will end up losing. personally, it took me many months to get to a point where i could consistently make a $/hr that was worth it. frankly i believe poker is only fun when you're winning, and even then it consumes a lot of your time. it's hard work and i'm sure everyone who is making $2874984375/hr now has paid his or her dues in hours played, or has lucked out and found extremely good friends. there is something to be said about addictiveness--when i am regularly playing there's not much else i can think about. when you win you want to play more, when you lose you want to play more to make it back. that's why for the vast majority of people it's not healthy to play while you're in school. very much the same as starcraft. | ||
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
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KH1031
United States862 Posts
I agree with ya. the whole point of this thread is a lil lost after these pages... | ||
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Izenra
Canada679 Posts
On December 23 2004 12:32 Hot_Bid wrote: 1-unless you put in a lot of work yourself or are taught by someone who is very good, there's no easy way to get good at it. 2-there is something to be said about addictiveness--when i am regularly playing there's not much else i can think about. when you win you want to play more, when you lose you want to play more to make it back. that's why for the vast majority of people it's not healthy to play while you're in school. very much the same as starcraft. 1- True i just began poker and i read stuff for like 2 month about it. You just gotta be wise when entering something new. So far i made 35 buck in 3 sesion, 2 hour. NL HE 10 entry .05/.1 2- I think that poker is less addictive(for me) than starcraft used to be. After 2 and a half hour it become hard to kept focus ( even tho i tripled my entry at one table and win a little at the other). Gambling suck. Poker is not gambling | ||
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