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On October 13 2010 01:59 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:49 News wrote:On October 13 2010 01:33 Klive5ive wrote:On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers. The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at. If he didn't care what people thought he would have done it some place quiet, not like someone made him log onto a website, set up the chair and the camera and chat people up dragging their attention. I am not hinting at anything like you've suggested, sometimes things are as simple as they appear. If you are "weak" you don't deserve to die just because of that, you are just "weak". NukeTheBunnys suggested he was strong and motivated doing this, I said he wasn't. He couldn't find his place in this society and he lacked the determination to do it. Do you think that the monks who immolated themselves to stop war were weak? Maybe this man wanted his death to send a message. It is certainly clear to me.
I wasn't trying to guess at his motives, simply arguing about him not wanting attention/people that commit suicide majorly being strong. Of course there's a chance he wanted to convey some kind of a message, was it worth it though? It would be a different discussion all together.
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On October 13 2010 01:33 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers. The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
Aspergers does not mean that he has absolutely no social concept understanding, just that they were severely lacking. It is also a term that is being done away with slowly in favor of simply pointing out that the person is autistic and grading them on a scale of functionality.
I have to say that I have a somewhat different approach to depression and suicide than I find most people have but on the note of the actual act I have to agree that it is indeed a selfish act. That does no mean that it is wrong. It is just the fact of the matter that if you are not dieing to save someone else (which would be sacrifice, not suicide) then you are doing it completely for yourself. Some people are stronger in different areas than others, some people have good family, and some people have good friends to keep them from these thoughts. Some people have all of those and are still struck with their own hardship. You can have an incredibly good life and still suffer from depression and I don't think that should be belittled. It is all in your mind and how important something is to you at the time. I'm sure if a lot of younger people who had committed suicide had aged 10 years they would not have done the same for the same reasons.
I guess I'm just trying to say that people should relax. Not taking strong opinions from others as a slight against them. We all have our own hardships and someone else having a large problem does no belittle our own.
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Wish I didn't actually read this
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I hope he's happy with decision he made if he still is somewhere.
R.I.P.
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On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
I think cases like this will become a lot more usual. It's really shocking that this wasn't a common occurrence up until now, with all the attention you can get via online social networks, forums and a webcam. Suddenly people that weren't going to suicide because there was a fear of simply being forgotten without making an impact are willing to die in front of thousands because they know they will be mourned and spoken of by their online "friends" and various news outlets.
NukeTheBunnys, your post isn't justified. I know what a depression is, I know what a serious anxiety disorder and panic attacks are. I only thought of dieing when I wasn't sure if I was going to live. No matter how bad it was I have always striven to become healthy again. If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
There are always cases where people kill themselves because they can't endure the physical pain or their health condition any longer, it is a completely different kind of suicide, similar to voluntary euthanasia.
Then obviously you are either lying, or you had a light depression. Seriously man, if you are speaking the truth and actually have experienced a full-blown depression(we are all different though, I know bla bla), I can't even begin to understand how you can say that.
About 3-4 weeks ago I tried to do it.. you know. "Luckily" I have a really close friend who is in the same spot and noticed, intervened etc etc.
I am not in general a selfish person. But was it selfish of me, trying? Yes, maybe. Was it weak? I don't think so.
For the past seven years I have literary lived for the sake of my family and loved ones. I couldn't take it anymore. At some point one has to find it in himself to be able to live for the sake of living. To live for oneself.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
i will never understand people who speak so harshly of suicide. those of you who think you are enlightened on the subject because you've been through so-and-so condition and know how miserable it is - do you really think that you survived because you somehow have just that much more mental fortitude and willpower than others? isn't there certainly a silent mass of thousands upon thousands of people out there to which your problems pale in comparison?
you guys should know best of all how hard it is for the average person to grasp what depression and its friends are like. i think giving your fellow human beings the benefit of the doubt and acknowledging that there may be despair beyond your understanding is the only a natural progression of having gone through a mental illness yourself.
what does it even mean when people say suicide requires a "weak mind"? what a fucking ego trip.
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anyone think thinks taking your own life is EASY or and EASY WAY OUT needs to think for more than one second about what they are saying.
I suffer from Bi-Polar Disorder, i go from deepest depression to hyper mode faster than a 6pool kills me. when i was younger I couldn't deal with it, i didn't manage the disorder well and I was in a bad state alot of the time. I tried to take my life on multiple occasions, thankfully I failed via a combination of people turning up at the right time to save me and sheer luck.
I never told anyone what I was going to do, I wasn't doing it for the attention, at the time I just wanted out. I couldn't handle not knowing how i was going to feel about the world from day to day, it was horrible.I won't go in to too many details on what i did to myself, but I have a tattoo that exactly cover up some of the scars (I made a pattern with a cut-throat razor) to remind me what i almost lost.
You have no idea how much resolve and will power it takes to intentionally harm yourself to the point that you will die. I'm not talking about "self harm", thats a completely different mind set, I am talking about knowingly attempting to end your life. Billions of years of evolution have created instincts for self preservation, to override this programming which is HARD CODED in to you takes enormous courage and self control. I challenge anyone to take a cut throat razor and slice a part of your body open...... most people wouldn't be able to do it, because they would be scared of the pain, of those who could do it, most wouldn't cut deep enough to understand how hard it really is to damage your body to the point of dying. what i'm trying to say is, hurting yourself is Stupid (notice the capitol S), but not cowardly.
Having been in a place where i thought the world would be better without me, and now in a place where i would do anything to save my own life has been a massive transition and one that took many friends supporting me to achieve. there was a time when i honestly believed my lfie was worthless, and even then the thought of taking my own life made me feel sick, but i mastered myself and did what at the time i felt was the right thing to do.
I am eternally thankful for those who came to my rescue and for the fact that my body was so used to taking drugs (both medicinal and recreational) that my tolerance saved me on more than one occasion..... it seemed i simply wasn't meant to die at times, even tho i am not religious, it felt like somehow it always went wrong.
Its always a sad day when someone takes their own life, but sometimes, though it may seem selfish to those who do not know true depression, in your mind while you are doing it..... you honestly think no one will miss you, no one will care, and even those who do are better off without you around bringing them down. Many people who commit suicide say in their notes things like "I couldn't bare seeing how miserable i was making you, hopefully now you can be happy" - aimed at thier loved ones - and in their altered state they honestly think they are doing the right thing.
To put into context the sort of person i was when i attempted to take my own life.....
I was 14 (first time, 17 last time), captain of my school soccer, rugby and basketball teams, sponsored for Skateboarding and Snowboarding. In a band (i am now a professional Singer and sound technician), had a gorgeous girlfriend and lots of friends.
I was by no means the "usual" suicide case. However, I have a disorder that completely messes with my head.
You may ask what changed things for me, and the answer is simple. I began to talk to people about my disorder, and about my feelings. I let my friends in and they helped an immense amount, I was lucky I had friends. Alot of people who take their lives don't have anyone to lean on, and I really needed people to lean on.... until I was 22 and my son was born. From that day on, the thought of taking my own life has never once entered my head.
I am one of the lucky ones, able to tell the world about my experiences, I had friends who aren't here anymore because they succeeded in taking their lives, I miss them very much and wish they had been lucky like me and somehow managed to find their way back from the darkness. I take great offense to people sullying their memory by saying they took the easy way out..... they are gone, never to return, never to love, never to live all because of a plethora of reasons. Whether they were born different, or mistreated by parents/piers or had a mental disorder that went unnoticed or a host of other causes.
No one is born wanting to kill themselves, it is a tragedy and we should do everything we can to find out why people do it, and then to attempt to remove those things from the world.
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On October 12 2010 20:28 SoL[9] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 20:11 KvltMan wrote:On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote:
Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now.
Poor soul. His soul will never RIP... He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief. The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case. OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP. If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame.... You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge...
Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up"
I'm sorry if I made it sound like you blamed someone, but given the fact that flashback is the swedish equivalent of 4chan, most those threads are not taken seriously. No one expected him to commit suicide, which is why people wrote comments that may not seem nice or appropriate.
I'm very well aware of the quote in bold, but let's face it: The guy didn't want to be "saved" since he himself realised that his life was pretty decent, but the loneliness he experienced because of his medical condition was to great to bear. He went in there to put on a show for the people on the website and thought that that would be it.
Before you blame me for the entire "for the show"-part, I can inform you that it's very often people who want to end their life that way:
Google search for "Killed himself on webcam"
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On October 13 2010 02:02 Scorcher2k wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:33 Klive5ive wrote:On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers. The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at. Aspergers does not mean that he has absolutely no social concept understanding, just that they were severely lacking. It is also a term that is being done away with slowly in favor of simply pointing out that the person is autistic and grading them on a scale of functionality.
What a load of crap. Aspies can have a perfectly fine conception of social matters. In fact they can be very charming people with a bit of effort. It just doesn't come naturally and they generally can't be assed anyways.
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On October 13 2010 02:29 KvltMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 20:28 SoL[9] wrote:On October 12 2010 20:11 KvltMan wrote:On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote:
Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now.
Poor soul. His soul will never RIP... He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief. The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case. OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP. If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame.... You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge...
Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up" I'm sorry if I made it sound like you blamed someone, but given the fact that flashback is the swedish equivalent of 4chan, most those threads are not taken seriously. No one expected him to commit suicide, which is why people wrote comments that may not seem nice or appropriate. I'm very well aware of the quote in bold, but let's face it: The guy didn't want to be "saved" since he himself realised that his life was pretty decent, but the loneliness he experienced because of his medical condition was to great to bear. He went in there to put on a show for the people on the website and thought that that would be it. Before you blame me for the entire "for the show"-part, I can inform you that it's very often people who want to end their life that way: Google search for "Killed himself on webcam"
People with AS don't experience loneliness the same way as neurotypicals do. You can't just say "oh he has AS, so he was lonely and then he killed himself" It doesn't work that way.
I have a feeling this guy wasn't an Aspie, mis-diagnosed himself and foolishly believed he was doomed to isolation. Either that he had something else bothering him beyond AS.
On October 12 2010 17:35 KinosJourney2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 16:56 Shikyo wrote:On October 12 2010 13:09 lvatural wrote:
I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die. I have asperger's and I'm not mentally disabled, IQ of like 130 actually. Also, you can work on the problems if you put some effort into it, it's pretty difficult at start but it gets better from my experience. You just don't have the "social skills" as a common sense like others and need to copy others to begin with but it'll be okay after you practice it for a while, you don't HAVE to just succumb to it. That being said this is quite sad and must have been horrible to witness. Don't really get people who commit suicide. I'm also autistic, but like you said theres workarounds for almost everything. I guess the guy who suicided just wanted to be around people but couldn't which pushed him over the edge. I personally can't be around people but don't give a fuck about it, i think playing video games and interacting with people online is much more fun.
There you go, some fine self-respecting Aspies here.
Frankly there should be a shit-ton of aspies on TL. Like bees to honey.
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This is very close to my heart because I had a friend that I grew up with who recently killed himself in a fashion similar to this. He didn't stream a video or anything, however he did hang himself.
I don't think I'll ever fully get over what he did.
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On October 12 2010 08:11 Fa1nT wrote:
I harbor no sympathy for people who suicide.
Remember that we are approaching 7billion people on this planet, and within a few decades, those spots won't be so free.
Have to agree here. It might seem heartless, but the earth is overpopulating and if the growth of humans continues as it does now, our futured childs will have a very very tough time sharing the limited rescourses of earth and even more people will be suffering in third world countries. Im not saying people should go around suiciding. But there's no point to mourn about it. Whats done is done. Move along
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On October 13 2010 00:25 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I am so tired of hearing people saying "its the cowards way out" You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever. You may think you understand, but you cant really know what its like unless you have been through it yourself. Waking up and seeing absolutely no reason to get up, not for a single second feeling any sort of satisfaction, hating yourself for feeling like this when you rationally know there is no reason to be feeling the way you do, and being completely powerless to change it. And you are completely powerless, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will either fix it self, or it won't and your actions really have little to no bearing on what that outcome is.
I'd hardly say completely powerless, exercise has been shown over and over again to have positive effects on mood and neurotransmitters:
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/exercise-depression
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On October 13 2010 03:52 LittleeD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 08:11 Fa1nT wrote:
I harbor no sympathy for people who suicide.
Remember that we are approaching 7billion people on this planet, and within a few decades, those spots won't be so free. Have to agree here. It might seem heartless, but the earth is overpopulating and if the growth of humans continues as it does now, our futured childs will have a very very tough time sharing the limited rescourses of earth and even more people will be suffering in third world countries. Im not saying people should go around suiciding. But there's no point to mourn about it. Whats done is done. Move along
Thoughts and quotes like these just show how little insight you have in this matter.
A person who commits suicide doesn't ask for your sympathy. He doesn't care for it at all, why would he? If you think it's about wanting sympathy, you are clueless...
(Ofcourse I cannot speak for all people, but that's how it is)
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On October 12 2010 07:46 Mrwl wrote:
For those of you who doesn't know what Flashback forum is (pretty much every non-Swede I would assume) it's a forum with some kind of sweet extreme freedom-of-speech and anonymity. Nothing is too ballsy for Flashback, it seems.
Sounds a lot like 4chan - nothing is sacred. If this event had happened on 4chan, I've no doubt someone would make a meme out of this.
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On October 13 2010 03:52 LittleeD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 08:11 Fa1nT wrote:
I harbor no sympathy for people who suicide.
Remember that we are approaching 7billion people on this planet, and within a few decades, those spots won't be so free. Have to agree here. It might seem heartless, but the earth is overpopulating and if the growth of humans continues as it does now, our futured childs will have a very very tough time sharing the limited rescourses of earth and even more people will be suffering in third world countries. Im not saying people should go around suiciding. But there's no point to mourn about it. Whats done is done. Move along
I'd rather bring a child into an overcrowded world than one without empathy.
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RIP
Aspergers is truly brutal. People with this disease are much more conscious of how normal people react to them than anyone could know, even if socially sporadic. They know they don't mesh properly as soon as they start communicating and from there it's a terribly uphill battle.
Something like this is so sad to me because so many people who didn't want him to commit suicide feel like they could done something, but they just didn't for whatever reason. But what's more saddening is wondering exactly what he meant by, "You shouldn't live for others."
When I hear that I basically think, the only reason he lived up to that point was because people motivated him. He killed himself with what he meant to others on his mind, it almost brings me to tears to think about.
The only thing more painful than no one loving you is no one wanting your love.
Again, RIP.
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unless your religious
suicide is your own choice, imo, it maybe selfish but how do you know he didnt think of that first? you dont sit behind a computer and know what that guy was thinking, its just gotta be pretty serious since average joe dont just kill themselves
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On October 13 2010 03:38 Fyodor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 13 2010 02:29 KvltMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 20:28 SoL[9] wrote:On October 12 2010 20:11 KvltMan wrote:On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote:
Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now.
Poor soul. His soul will never RIP... He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief. The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case. OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP. If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame.... You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge...
Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up" I'm sorry if I made it sound like you blamed someone, but given the fact that flashback is the swedish equivalent of 4chan, most those threads are not taken seriously. No one expected him to commit suicide, which is why people wrote comments that may not seem nice or appropriate. I'm very well aware of the quote in bold, but let's face it: The guy didn't want to be "saved" since he himself realised that his life was pretty decent, but the loneliness he experienced because of his medical condition was to great to bear. He went in there to put on a show for the people on the website and thought that that would be it. Before you blame me for the entire "for the show"-part, I can inform you that it's very often people who want to end their life that way: Google search for "Killed himself on webcam" People with AS don't experience loneliness the same way as neurotypicals do. You can't just say "oh he has AS, so he was lonely and then he killed himself" It doesn't work that way. I have a feeling this guy wasn't an Aspie, mis-diagnosed himself and foolishly believed he was doomed to isolation. Either that he had something else bothering him beyond AS.
I never said it was specific for people with AS, what I said was that the man was determined to kill himself, and no forum poster in the world could change it.
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Sorry for the double-post, but Marcus' (as his name was) mother has written a short (34 pdf-pages) summary of her life for a swedish website called http://www.livshistorier.se. The parts concerning Marcus are a bit disturbing, he couldn't speak properly until he was three years old, and hardly played or talked to his siblings.
"Först vid 18 års ålder får Marcus sin diagnos: högfungerande autism.
Att diagnosen inte ställdes tidigare anser Anna till största delen har att göra med
den nära kommunikation hon redan under graviditeten upplevde med Marcus.
Hon har alltid funnits där kring honom och sett till att han fått sina behov
tillgodosedda utan att han egentligen behövt uttala dem. När andra har missförstått
Marcus har han alltid kunnat söka och få förståelse hos sin mamma. Hon har, som
hon säger, ”bäddat runt honom”.
"It wasn't until he was eighteen Marcus received his diagnosis: highly-functioning autism.
Anna thinks that they never considered this due to their extremely close communication they shared from when he was in her womb. She was always around him to make sure that every one of his needs were satisfied without even having to mention them. When others misunderstood him he could always search comfort and understanding from his mother. She was, as previously mentioned, "tucked around him"
It's quite a hard read, the boy never did feel comfortable in himself and never understood how to socialize with other human beings.
The entire read can be found here. (Obs. in swedish)
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EPT
