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On October 12 2010 23:49 TechDeft wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 20:49 magh wrote:On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote:
That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things
It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things. In what way are the cowards, exactly? Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them. Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well. Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with. You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else. Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind. Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
Its absolutely bullshit.
I am so tired of hearing people saying "its the cowards way out" You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever. You may think you understand, but you cant really know what its like unless you have been through it yourself. Waking up and seeing absolutely no reason to get up, not for a single second feeling any sort of satisfaction, hating yourself for feeling like this when you rationally know there is no reason to be feeling the way you do, and being completely powerless to change it. And you are completely powerless, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will either fix it self, or it won't and your actions really have little to no bearing on what that outcome is.
Did you have the balls to end it? No matter how bad it gets people are still terrified of death. You are ending all possibilities, you are making a giant commitment. You are choosing to betray all the people you know, you know it will cause them pain and suffering. You know that you will never get to go bungee jumping, or travel the world or be able to do what ever you aspire to do. If you are religious you even know you are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, but what the heck, it can't be worse then what you are going through already. And despite this they still choose to take their own life.
A coward is a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things. Suicide is obviously a unpleasant thing, to commit the act means they are enduring.
To call them a coward means you don't respect the position they are in, and if you don't respect it then you clearly have never been in that situation.
Selfish I can agree with, but never cowardly.
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I saw the pics and it was quite sad to see the police do their best to get him down asap and give him cpr. Very sad.
RIP
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On October 13 2010 00:21 e4e5nf3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 23:49 TechDeft wrote:On October 12 2010 20:49 magh wrote:On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote:
That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things
It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things. In what way are the cowards, exactly? Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them. Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well. Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with. You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else. Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind. Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Well, in this man's case he had Asberger's syndrome, so that may have affected his ability to deal with the problems he was facing. People with Asbergers have trouble interacting with people and communicating their thoughts. Maybe he was trying to get help, but the people around him, not fully understanding of his condition, got fed up with him or just assumed he was an idiot. We don't know his whole story.
I agree, and Asberger's is horribly under recognized, despite the ridiculous psychological problems that can develop from the inability to communicate.(I have an extremely minor form, I don't so much have trouble, as it can cause severe anxiety because I can easily be overwhelmed by social situations where I am uncomfortable(damn, that's as dumb as the "im 1100 tos so i now wut im takin abot"))
The reason I didn't address it was because I was just answering the gentlemens question about why it's cowardly. I actually started typing caveats like some people truly need help and sometimes fall through the cracks, but I realize I was writing a wall of text.
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It sucks that he felt suicide was the best choice. Your life is your own, it's your own to take in my opinion. You have to weigh a lot of options, the pain of those close to you, but in the end it is one possible choice, and one possible solution. As for people saying it's wrong, and selfish, you don't even know the circumstances surrounding this guys suicide, so to make blanket statements about all suicides is stupid.
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On October 13 2010 00:18 Captain Mayhem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 23:40 TechDeft wrote:On October 12 2010 23:25 Sl4ktarN wrote:On October 12 2010 20:54 Ferrose wrote:
I think it's sad that that site has so many attention-whoring trolls that no one actually believed the guy who was serious. Flashback is like 4Chan but worse. 4Chan is mostly trolling douchebags who pretend to be fucked up and so on. Flashback houses some of Swedens most dangerous people. For instance every Neo Nazi in Sweden has an active account there and the murderer of Björn Söderberg (A swedish anarchist who got murdered by nazis for getting a nazi sacked for wearing T-shirts with racist messages at work) hangs there and stalks people he disagrees with. Not saying that there arent some good forums there but the really really really bad ones are just too bad. How does Sweden not find an excuse to shut those servers down? I mean, I'm all for the freedom of the internet, but much like a "free" country, if you start doing shit like housing the worst of the worst and giving them a place to organize and find possible victims(you really think crazy dude stalking people is always gonna end well??) is fucking foolish. They have, multiple times. The site isn't hosted from Sweden anymore, I think the server is in Britain somewhere if I recall correctly. Used to visit it frequently before, but I eventually reached the same conclusion as Sl4ktarN. 90% underage self proclaimed alternative people who copypaste boring memes and racist crap in attempts of boosting their postcounts and becoming oldbies. 9% are actually sensible people who don't venture outside the humour forums, and the remaining 1% are the real fuckups you really should avoid. Maybe wasn't mentioned that there are plenty of pedophiles there as well. Of course not openly sharing shit on the forums, but still. I don't really go beyond humour, technical support and those areas anymore.
Yep, i've also heard that the servers are somewhere in Britan.
But you guys really makes it sound like FB is a REALLY crappy place, like pepole singing nazi sound in threads and posts pictures on naked children. It's really not THAT bad, some examplels of the "hottest threads":
Snack om självmordet som visades live inför FB? (Mondo, gore och bizarre)
Talk about the suicide that was shown in front of FB?
SD ska debattera budgeten! (Politik - Inrikes)
Swedish Democrats detating the budget!
Hotad av min bror. (Barn och familj)
Threathend by my brother
Äta 180cm macka på subway - Hjälp! (Restauranger och matställen)
Eating 180 cm sandwich on subway - Help!
Ni invandrare som hatar "svennar".. (Integration och invandring)
You immigrants who hates "sweeds..."
(Spolier might be against the forum rules here, some mod can remove it if they don't want pepole to write such words in the forum)
+ Show Spoiler +
Pojkvän kommer för fort..nåt nytt mirakeltips...någon!?! (Erotik och sexualitet)
Boyfriend comming fast... little help?!
Tänker ni killar på tjejens röv när ni doggar? (Erotik och sexualitet)
Are you guys turning on on the wonams ass when you're doing doggy style? (This topic might not seem so good to some pepole, but hey, it's gotta be discussed somewhere!)
It really isn't that bad discussions going on there.
Tha amount of seriois pepole on FB really is more than 10%.
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On October 13 2010 00:25 NukeTheBunnys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 23:49 TechDeft wrote:On October 12 2010 20:49 magh wrote:On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote:
That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things
It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things. In what way are the cowards, exactly? Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them. Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well. Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with. You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else. Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind. Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth. You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever.
That sir, is untrue. I speak from a position of experience. I DO respect the position they are in, but not the choice they make(those who chose suicide). I have been there. I do understand the utterly hollow and alone feeling. And I understand what true hopelessness is.
I have been to the edge and back, and just because I felt hopeless, didn't mean life was hopeless. It just meant I didn't have hope for anything better. I'm glad I had people around me, because if I hadn't, someone else would be making the argument that suicide is cowardly right now, not me.
Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm trying to say I'm better than those who succumbed, not in any way, shape, or form.
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Suicide can be manly and honorable. In ancient times it was a preferred method, because the alternative is to be captured by the enemy and tortured to death. Is it cowardly to kill oneself then?
And look at samurai. That is not cowardly suicide.
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On October 13 2010 00:47 Ferrose wrote:
Suicide can be manly and honorable. In ancient times it was a preferred method, because the alternative is to be captured by the enemy and tortured to death. Is it cowardly to kill oneself then?
And look at samurai. That is not cowardly suicide.
We are not discussing a group of people who adhered meticulously to their code of values and kill themselves in response to shame or defeat, we are discussing people who escape their troubles by killing themselves.
You can't tell me the samurai would even listen for 1 minute of you comparing their honorable suicides with suicide for the purpose of escaping life. You'd be closer if samurais killed themselves before any battle they thought they would lose. Does that sound samurai-ey to you?
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On October 13 2010 00:50 TechDeft wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 00:47 Ferrose wrote:
Suicide can be manly and honorable. In ancient times it was a preferred method, because the alternative is to be captured by the enemy and tortured to death. Is it cowardly to kill oneself then?
And look at samurai. That is not cowardly suicide. We are not discussing a group of people who adhered meticulously to their code of values and kill themselves in response to shame or defeat, we are discussing people who escape their troubles by killing themselves. You can't tell me the samurai would even listen for 1 minute of you comparing their honorable suicides with suicide for the purpose of escaping life. You'd be closer if samurais killed themselves before any battle they thought they would lose. Does that sound samurai-ey to you?
You said, "Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind."
I'm just saying that that's not necessarily true. 
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Read this on a news site this morning. Kind of makes me feel sad that a person can feel so lonely and socially isolated, that they decide to take their own life.
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On October 13 2010 00:25 NukeTheBunnys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 23:49 TechDeft wrote:On October 12 2010 20:49 magh wrote:On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote:
That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things
It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things. In what way are the cowards, exactly? Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them. Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well. Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with. You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else. Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind. Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Its absolutely bullshit. I am so tired of hearing people saying "its the cowards way out" You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever. You may think you understand, but you cant really know what its like unless you have been through it yourself. Waking up and seeing absolutely no reason to get up, not for a single second feeling any sort of satisfaction, hating yourself for feeling like this when you rationally know there is no reason to be feeling the way you do, and being completely powerless to change it. And you are completely powerless, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will either fix it self, or it won't and your actions really have little to no bearing on what that outcome is. Did you have the balls to end it? No matter how bad it gets people are still terrified of death. You are ending all possibilities, you are making a giant commitment. You are choosing to betray all the people you know, you know it will cause them pain and suffering. You know that you will never get to go bungee jumping, or travel the world or be able to do what ever you aspire to do. If you are religious you even know you are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, but what the heck, it can't be worse then what you are going through already. And despite this they still choose to take their own life. A coward is a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things. Suicide is obviously a unpleasant thing, to commit the act means they are enduring. To call them a coward means you don't respect the position they are in, and if you don't respect it then you clearly have never been in that situation. Selfish I can agree with, but never cowardly.
I agree. Suicide does not make you a coward. My uncle went his whole life battling schizophrenia, going on all sorts of drugs that completely eliminated all the humanity he had. He got fired from 5 jobs consecutively because they "couldn't accommodate his disability". He was forced to live with my grandmother for 25 years, going in and out of shock therapy, drugs that made him gain weight, lose consciousness, and get uncontrollably ill.
The note he left had nothing about being scared, nothing about being afraid of living. He just could not handle the physical and mental strain his condition put on him. The vast majority of his suicide note was apologies, and he wrote that his biggest regret was hurting us in the pursuit of his own relief.
Selfish yes, but you can't call someone a coward when you haven't experienced a fraction of the misery they've endured.
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What this guy did was incredibly brave; may he rest in peace.
We are entering into an age where the social mind is incredibly important and people don't value the skills of someone like this young man as much as they used to.
England has a very high suicide rate too and it usually is the brightest who are at risk. This is the reality of the super-social society we live in.
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I think cases like this will become a lot more usual. It's really shocking that this wasn't a common occurrence up until now, with all the attention you can get via online social networks, forums and a webcam. Suddenly people that weren't going to suicide because there was a fear of simply being forgotten without making an impact are willing to die in front of thousands because they know they will be mourned and spoken of by their online "friends" and various news outlets.
NukeTheBunnys, your post isn't justified. I know what a depression is, I know what a serious anxiety disorder and panic attacks are. I only thought of dieing when I wasn't sure if I was going to live. No matter how bad it was I have always striven to become healthy again. If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
There are always cases where people kill themselves because they can't endure the physical pain or their health condition any longer, it is a completely different kind of suicide, similar to voluntary euthanasia.
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One thing is hanging yourself - which damage your environment as much as it is.
Another thing is tormenting people all around the world, sickening that someone could get themselves to do this.
Humanity is scaring me sometimes.
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On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do.
Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
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I am saddened, but not horribly surprised by this whole ordeal. Flashback is such a fantastic forum because it harbors all kind of incredible shit, but on a community pushing freedom-of-speech to the limit something like this was bound to happen sooner or later :/
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Its always sad when sh*t like this happens, thank god he took alot of painkillers cus on the video, it looked like it hurt. My heart goes out for family and friends of his.
Rest in peace bro.
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On October 13 2010 01:33 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers. The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
If he didn't care what people thought he would have done it some place quiet, not like someone made him log onto a website, set up the chair and the camera and chat people up dragging their attention.
I am not hinting at anything like you've suggested, sometimes things are as simple as they appear. If you are "weak" you don't deserve to die just because of that, you are just "weak". NukeTheBunnys suggested he was strong and motivated doing this, I said he wasn't. He couldn't find his place in this society and he lacked the determination to do it.
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On October 13 2010 01:49 News wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:33 Klive5ive wrote:On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote:
If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers. The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at. If he didn't care what people thought he would have done it some place quiet, not like someone made him log onto a website, set up the chair and the camera and chat people up dragging their attention. I am not hinting at anything like you've suggested, sometimes things are as simple as they appear. If you are "weak" you don't deserve to die just because of that, you are just "weak". NukeTheBunnys suggested he was strong and motivated doing this, I said he wasn't. He couldn't find his place in this society and he lacked the determination to do it.
Do you think that the monks who immolated themselves to stop war were weak?
Maybe this man wanted his death to send a message. It is certainly clear to me.
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EPT
