So I just witnessed the most disturbing and sad thing I've ever encountered today.
For those of you who doesn't know what Flashback forum is (pretty much every non-Swede I would assume) it's a forum with some kind of sweet extreme freedom-of-speech and anonymity. Nothing is too ballsy for Flashback, it seems.
I was glaring through the "Hot subjects" earlier today and noticed a pretty creepy thread named "Hanging". When I entered, there was this dude who pretty much just said that he was going to hang himself via a webcam. Since this is a pretty common thing to state at Flashback (damn trolls) everybody was like "yeah, go ahead, you won't even do it" He was typing very calmly and used smilies and everything while he was revealing that he had been taking painkillers earlier that day and was just waiting for them to take effect. Obviously, everyone still thought that he was trolling.
Suddenly, he said that "I'm on the brink of not doing this now, starting to get cold feet, so better get if overwith", linked to a page where a webcam was dumping pictures every minute from his livingroom. You could slowly see as he tied an internetcable around his neck, and dropped forward. Suddenly, it all turned real and people started to call the police. At this stage, I was pretty much panicing as I realised I was witnessing a suicide, live, with a real person.
As the pictures updated, you could see that he was hanging partly from the cable and the face turned bluer every minute until it was pretty much pitchblack. Then it turned around until he was pale as a ghost. This happened during the timeinterval of perhaps 15 minutes. A few minutes later, the police and paramedics rushed in and started the lifesaving. Unfortunatley, it was all to late.
I find it so damn sad. So fucking sad. He stated earlier that he had Aspergers-syndrome and was very lonely, perhaps bullied. Some people, including myself, tried to convince him into not doing it, but he just said that you have to live for yourself, not for anyone else. I wish there was some way I could have stopped this today... damn, feeling completely destroyed.
People and the internet never cease to amaze me. Cant say i'm surprised though. Sorry you had to see that, but this just goes to show you that on the www, search and yee will find.
Oh my god. Just reading this gives me the chills. I hope you weren't mentally scarred too badly by this, because watching something like this isn't really a pleasant experience. >.<
Just read some pages on that thread, the link for his site is still there but it's down. Basically people are saying how they could see him turning blue etc. He posted himself on that thread before doing it.
He even said ''I'll wait more people to start watching before doing it.''
To be honest, I don't know how to feel about this. A person died but I have a hard time feeling sad about it because it was his own choice and he seemed fully aware. (He made a post how his life otherwise is going good, grades good, good income, everything fine and dandy except for his social life that seemed to have been affected by his disease.)
I'm not going to look at it because I don't think I can, to be honest.
I'm guessing this is like the time that kid from Florida killed himself and they cops came. Everything was being streamed and just watching someone dead on camera like that disgusted me.
I remember some year back there was a guy who took his life by doing pills \ alcohol on a webcam via a forum like this guy. People could request what drug he took etc, because he wanted to kill himself. Everyone where really "cool" about it and said "take this take that" , but when he died, nobody acted so tough then. Sad to see this happen again.
I'm not looking at it because your story makes me sad enough. I feel bad that his life had to end this way and the grief it leaves his family and friends. No matter where on the internet it happens its a tragedy
On October 12 2010 08:03 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm not going to look at it because I don't think I can, to be honest.
I'm guessing this is like the time that kid from Florida killed himself and they cops came. Everything was being streamed and just watching someone dead on camera like that disgusted me.
yea this is what i thought of when i first read this. didn't want to see it then, and i don't want to see it know, but i wish these people who take their lives would realize how selfish they're actually being. their family and other loved ones probably care a lot about them and now they live on with the pain the person caused while they don't have to feel anything anymore. very selfish and weak but very sad.
Yea it was real. There were a couple threads @ you know where.
I don't feel terribly disturbed by it. The man was evidently not enjoying life and didn't see a way out. He took his life to release himself from his problems, he understood the consequences, it wasn't a tragic accident. In a strange way, having on lookers may have eased his mind, he was getting attention (albeit for the wrong reasons), something which he may have never have had before.
Sorry if this comes off as cruel or offensive, its just my take on things. IMO it is worse for a young man enjoying life to lose his life in circumstances outside of his control rather than an unhappy one making a conscious decision to end his.
Apparently someone recorded him hanging himself because I saw it - but didn't know how recent it was at the time. It is on some major websites currently. Really sad situation, must be hard for his family. I was around for the whole reddit suicide fiasco too, and the outcome of that was terrible - the father went online to see the his son's last posts and saw people responding "Do it faggot". I can't imagine the rage he felt.
Holy shit, I could never imagine seeing that type of thing. Ya, movies it's fine blah blah.. Someone may have been hurt filming it, possibly a scar but nothing like this. I hope it's something like this that makes mods around the net pay more attention to this type of shit because not everyone is "trollin"
On October 12 2010 07:48 Coagulation wrote: that sucks if its real.
just curious how can you tell if this wasnt just a very well staged hoax..
This attitude could've instigated the event more, like everyone thinking it's fake and antagonizing him about it. If everyone had been telling him not to do it, that may have stopped him OR if someone believed it was going to really happen and called the police sooner, the death could've been prevented and he could've gotten the help that he needed, even if it was maybe unwanted by him. It's sad that even with the internet, people are still this lonely. Such a sad story/situation.
I'm feeling deeply disturbed.. couldn't really eat that much today. Just feels so close, the fact that I actually talked to the man only minutes before he hanged himself is really terrifying for me
but still, can't even mention it in the same sentence as what his family, relatives and friends must be feeling right now.
I saw this and thought it was kinda exciting, i've never seen a suicide live. if you feel so bad about watching it why did you even watch it or read it?
I do not understand people feeling bad about it, i mean in sweden around 1200 people kill themself every year that's ~3 people everyday you can "feel" bad about then? would it had been better if he didn't stream it since you wouldn't had known about it?
Also he wrote on facebook just a few days ago that he needed a rope to hang himself and one of his friends told him to use the networkcord instead, and he seemed very calm while writing so i don't think if some random anonymous people would had told him to not do it instead of pushing for it he wouldn't had done it.
Terrible shit, but you can only imagine what goes through the head of people like that.. how fucked up do you actually have to be to hang yourself in front of people watching...
On October 12 2010 08:15 pewzzri wrote: I saw this and thought it was kinda exciting, i've never seen a suicide live. if you feel so bad about watching it why did you even watch it or read it?
Wasn't my intention of actually following this, I just stumbled across the "troll"thread and decided to check it. Kinda grew into it...
I do not understand people feeling bad about it, i mean in sweden around 1200 people kill themself every year that's ~3 people everyday you can "feel" bad about then? would it had been better if he didn't stream it since you wouldn't had known about it?
Of course it feels thousands of times worse when you actually get to know a little bit about the person, what he feels, who he is and then actually get to witness when he commits suicide. I can't comment on the other people commiting suicide since I don't know who they are, when they do it, why they do it etc. This one just felt so close.
I remember the feeling I got from seeing the footage of that American tourist being beheaded by terrorists ... It's weird how you can want to see something that horrible, cause I'll admit I was curious and wanted to see. Regretted it ever since, not going to search for the hanging video that dark pit in my stomach and cold feeling you get comes back everytime I think about it
Support to you Mrwl. Do somethin fun and try to get it out of your mind.
If people think its weird people where curious they are kind o wrong. Its human natur to be curious. I have the picture series, and it actually made me sick to my stomach, and I spend alot of my day on /b/
I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I share his opinion on living for yourself and not others. I'm not particularly upset that he ignored pleas to stop and killed himself. (Note that I'm not saying I don't care if he dies, just that the choice was his to make, and if he was really focused on this, then I feel I have no right to stop him).
On the other hand, the reasons that he used are kinda bullshit. I have Asperger's Syndrome too, and while I did indeed suffer a bit of bullying and alienation in my childhood, I can confidently say that the kind of torment I went through is reserved pretty much for pre-college life (granted, some teasing by siblings still happens, but that's more of a family issue). After the shittiness of high school, people tend to be a lot more lenient and compassionate. I don't know how old this fellow was or if the Swedish educational system is similar to that of America's, but if he was still a minor, waiting it out until he hits 18 would have opened up a lot of freedom for him. If he was 18+, then it's probably the environment he was living in that drove him over the edge, and not just some villainous bullies with a grudge. In that case, I would suggest some kind of psychotherapy session, or consoling, or a new place to live, or anti-depression medicines (I take these, they DRASTICALLY curb the quirks of Asperger's), or... anything, really. Killing yourself isn't very high on my treatment list.
And as for being lonely? It's not that hard to socialize, even if you DO have Asperger's (which limits social interaction). Go outside, hang out with some people at school or your job, make new friends! Being clouded by your misconception of "I have no friends, the world hates me" can only lead to a further descent into despair. I would know, I've been there.
So, I guess I'm more disappointed with this man, rather than sad for him. He had so many other choices, and he threw them away in favor of not having to make choices ever again. It's pitiable, really.
By the way, I don't mean to be unnecessarily harsh, or incite any flames. These are simply my views on the matter, and if you disagree, don't say that I'm pro-suicide or some nonsense. That hurts my feelings. =(
On October 12 2010 08:34 Aeres wrote: I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I share his opinion on living for yourself and not others. I'm not particularly upset that he ignored pleas to stop and killed himself. (Note that I'm not saying I don't care if he dies, just that the choice was his to make, and if he was really focused on this, then I feel I have no right to stop him).
On the other hand, the reasons that he used are kinda bullshit. I have Asperger's Syndrome too, and while I did indeed suffer a bit of bullying and alienation in my childhood, I can confidently say that the kind of torment I went through is reserved pretty much for pre-college life (granted, some teasing by siblings still happens, but that's more of a family issue). After the shittiness of high school, people tend to be a lot more lenient and compassionate. I don't know how old this fellow was or if the Swedish educational system is similar to that of America's, but if he was still a minor, waiting it out until he hits 18 would have opened up a lot of freedom for him. If he was 18+, then it's probably the environment he was living in that drove him over the edge, and not just some villainous bullies with a grudge. In that case, I would suggest some kind of psychotherapy session, or consoling, or a new place to live, or anti-depression medicines (I take these, they DRASTICALLY curb the quirks of Asperger's), or... anything, really. Killing yourself isn't very high on my treatment list.
And as for being lonely? It's not that hard to socialize, even if you DO have Asperger's (which limits social interaction). Go outside, hang out with some people at school or your job, make new friends! Being clouded by your misconception of "I have no friends, the world hates me" can only lead to a further descent into despair. I would know, I've been there.
So, I guess I'm more disappointed with this man, rather than sad for him. He had so many other choices, and he threw them away in favor of not having to make choices ever again. It's pitiable, really.
By the way, I don't mean to be unnecessarily harsh, or incite any flames. These are simply my views on the matter, and if you disagree, don't say that I'm pro-suicide or some nonsense. That hurts my feelings. =(
There are certainly different levels of severity of aspergers' syndrome. I'm glad that you successfully got over your quirks and learned to socialize, but it certainly isn't as easily overcome for some others due to the different severity of cases there are with the disease, know what I'm saying? ;P
Wow thats really quite depressing if only someone could of talked him out of it. Just goes to show that suicide is nothing to joke about if everyone he talked to told him not to do it instead of saying he did not have the balls for it he might of lived depressing
The saddest part was that the person was using smilies and all. He knew deep down inside that he was really going to hang himself, yet others were so ignorant.
It's like everybody is trying to prove that he is a troll, then got owned by the guy in return that he is not.
On October 12 2010 08:11 Dali. wrote: Yea it was real. There were a couple threads @ you know where.
I don't feel terribly disturbed by it. The man was evidently not enjoying life and didn't see a way out. He took his life to release himself from his problems, he understood the consequences, it wasn't a tragic accident. In a strange way, having on lookers may have eased his mind, he was getting attention (albeit for the wrong reasons), something which he may have never have had before.
Sorry if this comes off as cruel or offensive, its just my take on things. IMO it is worse for a young man enjoying life to lose his life in circumstances outside of his control rather than an unhappy one making a conscious decision to end his.
I don't think it's disturbing (haven't looked at the video though) but I find it incredibly sad. He probably could have turned things around with the right mindset and some help from the right people. He may have been aware of the consequences but that doesn't mean he was aware of the alternatives.
I don't think I will ever understand the mindset of people willing to kill themselves. One must be crazy in some way whether it's because of a certain situation or a mental illness. Most things are interesting in this world.
On October 12 2010 08:38 jaybrundage wrote: Wow thats really quite depressing if only someone could of talked him out of it. Just goes to show that suicide is nothing to joke about if everyone he talked to told him not to do it instead of saying he did not have the balls for it he might of lived depressing
I honestly believe this person would have killed himself no matter what a few forum posters thought. Not even 15 minutes after he made the thread was he dead. It was almost like he woke up and decided today was the day he was going to die. The real issue was family and friends who didn't notice what the hell was going on prior to this whole ordeal.
OP, du hade inte kunnat göra ett dyft. En sådan här människa går inte och resonera med anonymt genom internet, han behövde uppenbarligen professionell hjälp. Att ta åt sig efter en sån här händelse är inte normalt. Att känna sig äcklad och demoraliserad är normalt men ta fan inte åt dig.
Definitely not "pro-suicide" Aeres. A couple of my seemingly happy friends have gone that way and it enrages me. Honestly, it's never an option there are always other ways which you've even listed yourself. Sorry for you as a sufferer of aspergers to have endured what you have but good on you for making a life for yourself. Not sorry for the chump that offed himself.
You let down yourself, your friends and your family. It's selfish, and it's such a cop out. Don't care if people disagree, that's the way it is.
I just got pretty sad I recognize him from the swedish site www.existenz.se , got alot more real when you realize that you have actually written and shit to a guy who killed himself.
His last posts on flashback before the hanging in english:
I have decided to take my own life through hanging. I have tested to strangle myself to get the feel of it. I took some painkillers a few minutes ago (100mg dexofen and 1500mg paracetamol), waiting for it to set in.
I have put up a webcam with a program that makes a dump every two seconds and put up an FTP where the images will go. I will post the IP:port and loggin right before i do it.
—————–
He wrote in later post: I am a guy, 21 years of age. Have a good life, studying, have my own apartment and good money from the government.
I have asperger syndrome/high functioning autism I am exagerated vulnerable emotional. I have poor social skills and that have made me a lonely person.
I think i had fairly good uppbringing even though i had problems at school.
It makes no sense i want to kill myself? No i know *smiley with tongue*
——————–
Last post was: I am starting to feel im changing my mind so i have to hurry up. *and then he hanged himself*
On October 12 2010 08:50 Maynarde wrote: Definitely not "pro-suicide" Aeres. A couple of my seemingly happy friends have gone that way and it enrages me. Honestly, it's never an option there are always other ways which you've even listed yourself. Sorry for you as a sufferer of aspergers to have endured what you have but good on you for making a life for yourself. Not sorry for the chump that offed himself.
You let down yourself, your friends and your family. It's selfish, and it's such a cop out. Don't care if people disagree, that's the way it is.
Hehe, there's no need to congratulate me on living a normal life, but I appreciate your sentiments. =D
GOD MOTHERFUCKING DAMN, I haaaate it when people misuse the phrase "cop-out". They always assume it to mean it's an excuse or stupid reason for doing something. It doesn't mean that, it never has. A "cop-out" is an admission of guilt for some charge, in exchange for better treatment. For example, if a guy murders someone, and at the trial says "I killed him because he was an asshole", that's an excuse. If he says "Yes, I killed this man" in the hopes of a lighter sentence, that is a cop-out. The ambiguity between the phrases "excuse" and "cop-out" arises when an excuse contains some amount of self-incrminating truth.
wow thats so stupid though.... why would he do that my life is fuking sucky as balls and sometimes i would think about killing myself but it was all joke to make me get tougher.. man everybody's life suk ppl's who suicide because they think their life is so bad is dumb because everybody life is bad and only loser kill themselves no offense just want to clear my thoughts
god... I have reached the abyss of the internet thanks to this thread. I looked up so many disturbing videos of people cutting someone's head off (the amount of gore you can gurgle up is incredible), suicide bomber blew up... Now I feel like shit... Ugh...
On October 12 2010 08:01 Holgerius wrote: I have such a bad feeling in my stomach after reading a little in that thread.
Ugh, me too. The internet is an obscenely callous place and it's foolish to think that compassionate people are the norm, but when you hear stories like this, it's jarring.
couldnt help but read through that original thread incl. photos... damn u curiosity...
its always sad when people just dont see another way out...being a lonely outsider and all...just sad...
Sometimes those thoughts cross my mind, but i just couldnt do that to my little brother, my parents... As bad as it sometimes get...its always going to be better..
On October 12 2010 09:05 kenwoo wrote: wow thats so stupid though.... why would he do that my life is fuking sucky as balls and sometimes i would think about killing myself but it was all joke to make me get tougher.. man everybody's life suk ppl's who suicide because they think their life is so bad is dumb because everybody life is bad and only loser kill themselves no offense just want to clear my thoughts
You don't one day just wake up and decide to kill yourself.
Don't call suicidal people weak. Nor should you call them selfish or overly dramatic. You can't possibly fathom what they are going through or their thought process. Something you don't realize is how fucking torn you must be to HONESTLY contemplate ending everything you've ever known, perceived, and done. It isn't something someone can comprehend without going through it themselves, and even then every situation is specific and different. The last thing you want to do with a suicidal person is isolate and define them. Always be willing to give people support and learn to treat others kindly, but let the psychologists/psychiatrists/hotlines do their jobs because they've been trained to do what people online can't.
This topic isn't about suicide in general, but I think the people posting here can maybe mature a little and learn that it is worth reaching out and helping people. Even if it means that for every 1,000 trolls you respond to, you get 1 legitimate person who truly needs help. Sure, everyone goes through shit in their life. You can't make comparisons. People deal with situations differently.
On October 12 2010 08:50 Maynarde wrote: Definitely not "pro-suicide" Aeres. A couple of my seemingly happy friends have gone that way and it enrages me. Honestly, it's never an option there are always other ways which you've even listed yourself. Sorry for you as a sufferer of aspergers to have endured what you have but good on you for making a life for yourself. Not sorry for the chump that offed himself.
You let down yourself, your friends and your family. It's selfish, and it's such a cop out. Don't care if people disagree, that's the way it is.
Hehe, there's no need to congratulate me on living a normal life, but I appreciate your sentiments. =D
GOD MOTHERFUCKING DAMN, I haaaate it when people misuse the phrase "cop-out". They always assume it to mean it's an excuse or stupid reason for doing something. It doesn't mean that, it never has. A "cop-out" is an admission of guilt for some charge, in exchange for better treatment. For example, if a guy murders someone, and at the trial says "I killed him because he was an asshole", that's an excuse. If he says "Yes, I killed this man" in the hopes of a lighter sentence, that is a cop-out. The ambiguity between the phrases "excuse" and "cop-out" arises when an excuse contains some amount of self-incrminating truth.
Sorry for the lecture. = /
Sorry for the misuse, it's Aussie slang I guess. A lot of people use it just in place of "weak" or "lazy" etc.
On October 12 2010 09:05 kenwoo wrote: wow thats so stupid though.... why would he do that my life is fuking sucky as balls and sometimes i would think about killing myself but it was all joke to make me get tougher.. man everybody's life suk ppl's who suicide because they think their life is so bad is dumb because everybody life is bad and only loser kill themselves no offense just want to clear my thoughts
You don't one day just wake up and decide to kill yourself.
Don't call suicidal people weak. Nor should you call them selfish or overly dramatic. You can't possibly fathom what they are going through or their thought process. Something you don't realize is how fucking torn you must be to HONESTLY contemplate ending everything you've ever known, perceived, and done. It isn't something someone can comprehend without going through it themselves, and even then every situation is specific and different. The last thing you want to do with a suicidal person is isolate and define them. Always be willing to give people support and learn to treat others kindly, but let the psychologists/psychiatrists/hotlines do their jobs because they've been trained to do what people online can't.
This topic isn't about suicide in general, but I think the people posting here can maybe mature a little and learn that it is worth reaching out and helping people. Even if it means that for every 1,000 trolls you respond to, you get 1 legitimate person who truly needs help. Sure, everyone goes through shit in their life. You can't make comparisons. People deal with situations differently.
Of course, I totally agree that people sometimes truly need help. Certainly doesn't help when you get egged on like that guy in the Swedish thread was. I guess we'll just have to wonder whether he tried to get help or not before he did the deed ... Or just leave this sad story alone and think about lighter hearted topics.
I've seen some horrible things on the internet, he really wanted to hang himself the poor lad. He wasn't suspended too high for his feet to reach the floor so that he didn't have a choice after 'jumping' - he had to fight to do it. If you know what I mean.
I feel sorry for the poor guy, he was obviously in a bad place.
BUT, he had a nice apartment by the looks of it, he said himself in the thread that he had a nice upbringing and a nice life living off government benefits. Walk a day in my shoes, infact fuck that walk a day in the other 3 billion people out there who have it worse than all of us you ungrateful fucker. He was also like 'hehe' and ':p' in the thread ? Maybe I'm getting too old to get young people. His poor family.
Don't call suicidal people weak. Nor should you call them selfish or overly dramatic.
Someone who kills themselves in their own house with nobody around is one thing. However, you cannot tell me that someone killing themselves by advertising it beforehand and hanging themselves on a live webcast to anyone who would want to watch isn't being dramatic. That's pretty much the definition of drama.
Such a person isn't interested in killing themselves. They aren't just ending their own life. No, they want to actively hurt the world they leave behind.
That's not me being "unkind" to him; that's an objective assessment of what he has done. He specifically did not want to die alone; he wanted to hurt everyone who saw him. He wanted to make a point of his death.
Subjectively, that is a foul thing to want to do to others. It's bad enough that his parents just lost a child, and any relations he had just lost a relative. No, he wants to make it as painful as possible for them, and some random strangers on the internet.
A mind that wants to do this is not in a healthy place. And I feel sorry for him, that his mind was in that place. That doesn't mean that I can't also say that this was a horrible thing for him to do, and it shows that simply ending his life was not his goal.
On October 12 2010 09:24 Gridlock wrote: I've seen some horrible things on the internet, he really wanted to hang himself the poor lad. He wasn't suspended too high for his feet to reach the floor so that he didn't have a choice after 'jumping' - he had to fight to do it. If you know what I mean.
I feel sorry for the poor guy, he was obviously in a bad place.
BUT, he had a nice apartment by the looks of it, he said himself in the thread that he had a nice upbringing and a nice life living off government benefits. Walk a day in my shoes, infact fuck that walk a day in the other 3 billion people out there who have it worse than all of us you ungrateful fucker. He was also like 'hehe' and ':p' in the thread ? Maybe I'm getting too old to get young people. His poor family.
Very freaky thread indeed most people responded like "yeah go hang yourself" and encouraged him to do it since they obviously thought he was lying but a few number of people told him to stop and dont do it...
these things happen all over the world, only this time it got your attention. doesn't make it more sad then a person that actually died, while nobody noticed.
this guy finally managed to get all the attention he wanted... to bad it costed his life
I am sorry for all the people that have to live like this. Life's a bitch
On October 12 2010 09:25 Sanguinarius wrote: Thats horrible, I hope it wasnt real :-(
Sadly it is real. Swedish news sites have written about it..
sorry to go of topic on this. What you said makes no sense at all!??!!?
because the Swedish news sites write about it, it is real? LOLOLOL, beware what you believe, Dutch media site geenstijl.nl already fucking around with fake news, and trust me. Actual highly respected news sources thought it was real. But it was just to point out how unreal they are...
I dont really get why people feel sorry for his relatives. They did obviously not see the warning singns that most likely were around. They did not help him or cared enough to stop him in time. Also if he had loved them or cared for them he would not have done it. So in his mind I guess they got what they deserved. Suicide is not cowardly or selfish, I'm sure he tried and failed numerous times to fix his situation. It takes a huge amount of guts to kill yourself, it's nothing you do on impulse. And for him using smileys ect, apparently it's common for suicidial people to be happy before they take their own life, for obvious reasons. Their suffering is about to end.
Sad that it had to come to this but one can only hope that his actions puts a spotlight on people with autism and maybe get them the help they deserve. Hopefully that might save a few lives down the road.
On October 12 2010 08:11 Dali. wrote: Yea it was real. There were a couple threads @ you know where.
I don't feel terribly disturbed by it. The man was evidently not enjoying life and didn't see a way out. He took his life to release himself from his problems, he understood the consequences, it wasn't a tragic accident. In a strange way, having on lookers may have eased his mind, he was getting attention (albeit for the wrong reasons), something which he may have never have had before.
Sorry if this comes off as cruel or offensive, its just my take on things. IMO it is worse for a young man enjoying life to lose his life in circumstances outside of his control rather than an unhappy one making a conscious decision to end his.
You can't look at this problem like a normal problem. "The guy is not enjoying his life, reasonable answer: suicide". He prob wouldent even have done it if it wasent for the audience. He even said in the thread "i'm wating for some more people before i get started". There's a big difference between thinking about doing it and actually doing it, and in this case its like the thought became an obligation once the thread was created and the people started pushing him. Not doing it after all those comments might have been to hard for this guy to handle. What im saying is that we cannot be sure his suicidal thoughts was strong enought for this kind of action, which is incredibly sad
In high school I had a friend who ended up committing suicide. He wasn't exactly the most "normal" of people (whatever the hell that means anyway), but he wasn't a social outcast, emo, drug addict, or anything like that. He showed practically no warning signs, but after his suicide, his family learned that he kept many dark secrets from them. As it turns out, he was a heavily troubled young man, a cutter, and in his final days, he kept a journal with some seriously disturbing writing. I think he knew his time was coming.
16 fucking years old. He probably could have gotten help and this all could have been prevented if he talked to somebody about how he was feeling. Unfortunately for him, society discourages "weak" behavior in males, and suicidal thoughts are most certainly considered weak behavior. You don't even need to look any farther than this thread to see just how stupid people can be when it comes to talking about suicide. That is precisely the reason why he did not reach out, why he did not talk to me about it, and why his loving parents didn't take him to a counselor.
I'll say this now: every single one of you is capable of killing yourself. It doesn't take some special kind of disorder, excessive sensitivity, or selfishness. It can happen to anybody when they're backed into a corner and feel that they have no way out.
This is yet another tragedy, and trying to explain it in other words is idiotic.
I can't believe people would actually push someone to kill themselves, just because they think they are kidding... People sure are different when no one can see them at a computer. I wish people would start treating the internet like talking with some one face to face.
Don't call suicidal people weak. Nor should you call them selfish or overly dramatic.
Someone who kills themselves in their own house with nobody around is one thing. However, you cannot tell me that someone killing themselves by advertising it beforehand and hanging themselves on a live webcast to anyone who would want to watch isn't being dramatic. That's pretty much the definition of drama.
Such a person isn't interested in killing themselves. They aren't just ending their own life. No, they want to actively hurt the world they leave behind.
That's not me being "unkind" to him; that's an objective assessment of what he has done. He specifically did not want to die alone; he wanted to hurt everyone who saw him. He wanted to make a point of his death.
Subjectively, that is a foul thing to want to do to others. It's bad enough that his parents just lost a child, and any relations he had just lost a relative. No, he wants to make it as painful as possible for them, and some random strangers on the internet.
A mind that wants to do this is not in a healthy place. And I feel sorry for him, that his mind was in that place. That doesn't mean that I can't also say that this was a horrible thing for him to do, and it shows that simply ending his life was not his goal.
I don't agree with this. You can't say for sure that is his motive.
To someone sitting on the other side of the computer it sure seems that way. But you're thinking in such a narrow way it is ridiculous. He probably spent days and weeks thinking about killing himself, and you're giving the situation an assessment in 5 minutes. This situation isn't dramatic. It is tragic. Him publicizing his suicide does not by any means equate into him being malevolent about it. You can't assume he found malice in what he did.
When it comes to psychology you can't assume LOGIC is correct when putting yourself in people who are mentally unhealthy. That is the most absurd thing you could do. You won't ever fully grasp the situation, but the least you can do is view it from a spectrum rather than "this is what it seems like to the average person, so that is what it must be". So I'd say with great confidence that your assessment of what he thought is possibly inaccurate. What his actions actually did is a totally different story. That isn't the point though, now is it? I'm not interested in actions, because that is factual. You can't disagree that his actions left a horrible impact. Saying that he did it to be dramatic, to leave a mark and pain others, doesn't seem correct to me.
Not that it isn't probable - it could be. Maybe he found solace and comfort in the fact that he wasn't going to die alone. What if he lived by himself? He was socially awkward, and possibly had no relationships. He just wanted the situation to matter to someone. Of course, the action itself causes pain, but his intention for himself could have been comfort. Maybe he wanted someone specific to see the video. When you're on the verge of killing yourself it is suffice to say that people don't write a life story - hence why I'm advocating 'you don't know, I don't know'. I just find it disrespectful to make an "objective assessment" out of someone who lived thousands and thousands of days to be judged by a news headline and someone's opinion of what the situation seems to be who couldn't say on the breath of their tongue what this person's name was, what their favorite color is, or the food they enjoy most is.
On October 12 2010 09:25 Sanguinarius wrote: Thats horrible, I hope it wasnt real :-(
Sadly it is real. Swedish news sites have written about it..
sorry to go of topic on this. What you said makes no sense at all!??!!?
because the Swedish news sites write about it, it is real? LOLOLOL, beware what you believe, Dutch media site geenstijl.nl already fucking around with fake news, and trust me. Actual highly respected news sources thought it was real. But it was just to point out how unreal they are...
sorry for off topic read the post above this one
I guess he should have said "It's real because the newspapers have allready gotten a statement from the police". I doubt the entire policeforce would be in on it if it was a hoax...
On October 12 2010 09:55 Eatme wrote: I dont really get why people feel sorry for his relatives. They did obviously not see the warning singns that most likely were around. They did not help him or cared enough to stop him in time. Also if he had loved them or cared for them he would not have done it. So in his mind I guess they got what they deserved. Suicide is not cowardly or selfish, I'm sure he tried and failed numerous times to fix his situation. It takes a huge amount of guts to kill yourself, it's nothing you do on impulse. And for him using smileys ect, apparently it's common for suicidial people to be happy before they take their own life, for obvious reasons. Their suffering is about to end.
Sad that it had to come to this but one can only hope that his actions puts a spotlight on people with autism and maybe get them the help they deserve. Hopefully that might save a few lives down the road.
Excellent black and white world view you got there. He explicitly stated in the thread that he had a good life and that him committing suicide didn't actually make sense. It's not always that easy for relatives to help someone suffering from depression, in fact they might not even be aware. My family friend's kid killed himself and it was all just a huge shock for them, they really had no idea.
I can't even fathom what his family is going through right now.
Regardless the fact the guy started posting about it is enough to tell you the person is contemplating the idea in most situations. The fact he did means that he was looking for an out. The guy couldn't find reasons for himself to and that was a desperate cry for help.
Before I say anything, I just want to say that this is one of the things that are horrific and really sad to see wherever it happens. Rest in peace.
Do we have any background of this guy in hopes that we can understand why he did what he did?
RosaParksStoleMySeat He probably could have gotten help and this all could have been prevented if he talked to somebody about how he was feeling. Unfortunately for him, society discourages "weak" behavior in males, and suicidal thoughts are most certainly considered weak behavior. You don't even need to look any farther than this thread to see just how stupid people can be when it comes to talking about suicide. That is precisely the reason why he did not reach out, why he did not talk to me about it, and why his loving parents didn't take him to a counselor.
I completely agree with what you're saying. But whose fault is it that he couldn't reach out to anybody? Im not indirectly saying anything about him having fault, but I'm just wondering that he is potentially a spokesperson for those who have hard times holding talks with other people and that they do not like to express themselves for the fear of rejection and so on. Both men and women go through this process and its a matter of them reaching to whoever.
Do they choose to wait for people to reach out to them? Or is it that they cannot reach out to others?
D: always reading that kinda stuff on the internet kinda desensatizes you to it, so I can't imagine wat it's like to actually witness it that's horrible.
On October 12 2010 09:55 Eatme wrote: I dont really get why people feel sorry for his relatives. They did obviously not see the warning singns that most likely were around. They did not help him or cared enough to stop him in time. Also if he had loved them or cared for them he would not have done it. So in his mind I guess they got what they deserved. Suicide is not cowardly or selfish, I'm sure he tried and failed numerous times to fix his situation. It takes a huge amount of guts to kill yourself, it's nothing you do on impulse. And for him using smileys ect, apparently it's common for suicidial people to be happy before they take their own life, for obvious reasons. Their suffering is about to end.
Sad that it had to come to this but one can only hope that his actions puts a spotlight on people with autism and maybe get them the help they deserve. Hopefully that might save a few lives down the road.
Excellent black and white world view you got there. He explicitly stated in the thread that he had a good life and that him committing suicide didn't actually make sense. It's not always that easy for relatives to help someone suffering from depression, in fact they might not even be aware. My family friend's kid killed himself and it was all just a huge shock for them, they really had no idea.
I can't even fathom what his family is going through right now.
i agree that it's not always (more like never) easy to help someone suffering from depression, but not be aware of the situation? hmm, you'd really have to try hard to ignore the "warning signs" there. i'm not saying it's the parent's fault or anyone's fault for that matter (none of us know what was really going on in his life)... but whenever i hear people saying "but he was completely normal and happy!" in cases like this, i must ask myself if they ever bothered to watch closely (again, not blaming anyone here).
There was an incident like this a few years ago on bodybuilding.com. One of the posters seemed like a troll in which he would say ridiculous things to get attention. He became pretty well known within the community but mainly for people to tease him, but he on the other hand thought they were kinda his friends I guess. Long story short, he ended up setting up a justin.tv and kept threatening that he was going to keep taking pills and suicide. There was a mass amount of viewers and obviously some jerks told him to do it while others frantically tried to find his address via internet. The dude ended up laying down and never waking up while everyone just watched. The stream ended with the cops and paramedics showing up on the webcam. Later it was all over the news that the kid indeed suicided and bodybuilding.com and justin.tv started moderating heavily on these touchy subjects.
It's seriously a sad thing to think about, let alone witness. Hopefully he is resting in peace now. And hopefully you aren't scarred.
Ahh, stuff like this is really sad. But if it was his decision, and he had enough resolve to do it. I guess it's not that bad or horrid if he didn't see any other escape from his suffering. We are all results of our own decisions right? He wanted to suicide, and he did; hopefully he's in a better place now. (If you believe in that stuff.)
Just hope is family is coping (somewhat) alright, and the witnesses aren't too devastated..
I dunno if any of you have seen the movie "Gamer," but I couldn't even sit through the whole thing because it disgusted me so much. "Surely" I thought "Surely, people don't really act this way."
Then I see stories of people suiciding on camera and other people goading them into it. How far have we fallen as people?
It's his choice to do whatever he wants with his life. Why is it so horrible that he wanted to end it?
What's so special about a human life? There's over 6 billion people on the planet. Common misguided sense of empathy ITT. There's thousands of people dying all over the world right now, yet you don't feel empathy for all of them. I wonder why that is? (Hint: Maybe because it doesn't affect you or matter to you in any realistic sense of the term.) It would be a lot different if any of you were his friends or family, but you're not. Probably none of you knew him.
Obviously did it on cam to get your responses like this, and it worked gloriously. wp hangee, gg.
For anyone who doesn't know, asperger's syndrome is a high functioning autism. People who have it often absolutely excel at one thing, whether it be art, music, math, something else, or something even more specific, often to a point where it seems inhuman. Autism itself is an extremely common psychological disorder that more or less hinders one's social abilities, to put it lightly. And notably, the degree of autism varies tremendously among individuals from mild to severe. However, asperger's syndrome is a rare species of autism. So this social disadvantage combined with their "abnormal" abilities alienates them terribly in a society where so few of them exist.
That said, this news makes me sad. It's an incredible tragedy whenever the world loses one of these phenomenal human beings.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
I highly doubt that, this is a Swedish forum, so crazy american laws don't apply
Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
this is terrible... could you imagine being one of those people int he stream that were like "oh yeah you ### go kill yourself" as a troll... and then to hve it happen? i dont think id be able to forgive myself
I don't even know what to say... I refuse to look at it. It's pathetic how far we've fallen as human beings monsters. For the people pushing him to do it... how the fuck can they live with themselves? I don't get it. The anonymity of the internet is ruining us all.
Sad Be careful what you say on the internet, don't forget to be kind and supportive even on the internet, and don't forget that the person on the other end of the data line is as real as you are.
I saw an animated .gif and it actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Also, not being a jerk, just stating facts, he had a JUST DO IT shirt on at the time of self-ending.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
I highly doubt that, this is a Swedish forum, so crazy american laws don't apply
It was his choice to kill himself, no one forced a gun to his head and forced him to kill himself. If he feels like life isn't worth living anymore and he wants to end it, you know, I feel happy for him. No point for him to live if he doesn't want to anymore. This goes to everything in life. If you don't want to do something anymore, don't do it.
And for everyone saying that the posters of the forums are monsters and blah blah blah....come on....look, how many trolls are there in the internet. ALOT. So how can you blame them for posting something like that. There's hundreds of trolls here on TL, how can they possibly know if something is a joke or not
On October 12 2010 12:09 MutaDoom wrote: I don't even know what to say... I refuse to look at it. It's pathetic how far we've fallen as human beings monsters. For the people pushing him to do it... how the fuck can they live with themselves? I don't get it. The anonymity of the internet is ruining us all.
There are some interesting books and articles written about attitudes towards technology that touch on these kinds of things. Basically technology is good, but human beings are pretty much just dumb animals. So you put tech in the hands of animals you dont get evolution. The internet is cutting edge which is something we normally regard as valuable, but to be honest its getting a little old. Of course there is plenty of good stuff out there. But the internet is basically a watering hole with almost no rules against what is acceptable and what isnt. That is not healthy for the average idiot human. When people say that harsh rules are bad because they take away rights, you got to remember that most people dont deserve as much rights as they have. Yeah maybe you and your mom are great people but for every couple of decent people there are hundreds who would punch somebody out for their shoes or stab somebody over an argument drunk. I live in the bad part of town, and i always have. People are pretty much mindless meat bags around here. They are easily led, easily fooled, easily controlled. Laws need to change to reflect the reality of how sleazy people really are. Id give up a ton of my freedoms to be able to walk down the street with out getting the shit beat out of me for no reason. Id also give alot of my freedoms to be able to come online and not hear about what the latest sick shit is thats turned into a meme before noon every single day. Keep that shit out of my face. Not every person on this planet thinks its awesome when other people get hurt or killed. Some of us would rather be focused on how to improve reality.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
You sir are a gigantic idiot.
"Hey someone on TeamLiquid just got busted for drunk driving, quick hunt down the moderators, they need to answer for letting these ne'er-do-wells even register."
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
I highly doubt that, this is a Swedish forum, so crazy american laws don't apply
It's bullshit anyway, would never fly in court.
Maybe it should fly in court. People would think twice before doing that again.
And for everyone saying that the posters of the forums are monsters and blah blah blah....come on....look, how many trolls are there in the internet. ALOT. So how can you blame them for posting something like that. There's hundreds of trolls here on TL, how can they possibly know if something is a joke or not
Even if it was fake it wouldn't be funny, and the trolls would still be lame. Bad behavior doesn't get a pass from me just because it's common or expected. Maybe those trolls will try to be better people now and won't take things so lightheartedly that shouldn't be made fun of. It's my opinion.
Don't call suicidal people weak. Nor should you call them selfish or overly dramatic.
Someone who kills themselves in their own house with nobody around is one thing. However, you cannot tell me that someone killing themselves by advertising it beforehand and hanging themselves on a live webcast to anyone who would want to watch isn't being dramatic. That's pretty much the definition of drama.
Such a person isn't interested in killing themselves. They aren't just ending their own life. No, they want to actively hurt the world they leave behind.
That's not me being "unkind" to him; that's an objective assessment of what he has done. He specifically did not want to die alone; he wanted to hurt everyone who saw him. He wanted to make a point of his death.
Subjectively, that is a foul thing to want to do to others. It's bad enough that his parents just lost a child, and any relations he had just lost a relative. No, he wants to make it as painful as possible for them, and some random strangers on the internet.
A mind that wants to do this is not in a healthy place. And I feel sorry for him, that his mind was in that place. That doesn't mean that I can't also say that this was a horrible thing for him to do, and it shows that simply ending his life was not his goal.
I don't agree with this. You can't say for sure that is his motive.
To someone sitting on the other side of the computer it sure seems that way. But you're thinking in such a narrow way it is ridiculous. He probably spent days and weeks thinking about killing himself, and you're giving the situation an assessment in 5 minutes. This situation isn't dramatic. It is tragic. Him publicizing his suicide does not by any means equate into him being malevolent about it. You can't assume he found malice in what he did.
When it comes to psychology you can't assume LOGIC is correct when putting yourself in people who are mentally unhealthy. That is the most absurd thing you could do. You won't ever fully grasp the situation, but the least you can do is view it from a spectrum rather than "this is what it seems like to the average person, so that is what it must be". So I'd say with great confidence that your assessment of what he thought is possibly inaccurate. What his actions actually did is a totally different story. That isn't the point though, now is it? I'm not interested in actions, because that is factual. You can't disagree that his actions left a horrible impact. Saying that he did it to be dramatic, to leave a mark and pain others, doesn't seem correct to me.
Not that it isn't probable - it could be. Maybe he found solace and comfort in the fact that he wasn't going to die alone. What if he lived by himself? He was socially awkward, and possibly had no relationships. He just wanted the situation to matter to someone. Of course, the action itself causes pain, but his intention for himself could have been comfort. Maybe he wanted someone specific to see the video. When you're on the verge of killing yourself it is suffice to say that people don't write a life story - hence why I'm advocating 'you don't know, I don't know'. I just find it disrespectful to make an "objective assessment" out of someone who lived thousands and thousands of days to be judged by a news headline and someone's opinion of what the situation seems to be who couldn't say on the breath of their tongue what this person's name was, what their favorite color is, or the food they enjoy most is.
Can't agree more with your quote, and its really nothing more than a tragedy. There is so much limited information the least you can do is not peg him and his actions negatively. Sorry to hear this stuff..I can understand him a bit, I'm sure a lot of us can relate.
On October 12 2010 08:15 pewzzri wrote: I saw this and thought it was kinda exciting, i've never seen a suicide live. if you feel so bad about watching it why did you even watch it or read it?
I do not understand people feeling bad about it, i mean in sweden around 1200 people kill themself every year that's ~3 people everyday you can "feel" bad about then? would it had been better if he didn't stream it since you wouldn't had known about it?
Also he wrote on facebook just a few days ago that he needed a rope to hang himself and one of his friends told him to use the networkcord instead, and he seemed very calm while writing so i don't think if some random anonymous people would had told him to not do it instead of pushing for it he wouldn't had done it.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
You sir are a gigantic idiot.
"Hey someone on TeamLiquid just got busted for drunk driving, quick hunt down the moderators, they need to answer for letting these ne'er-do-wells even register."
There is a big difference between someone drinking and someone killing themselves while others encourage them on a forum.
Let me ask you this, what would the world lose if all morbid shit was removed from the internet? What would it LOSE? Freedom? I doubt it. Sense of reality? I doubt it. Reality is what you focus on, its a fact. If you and your friends cant fap to dead people anymore thats too bad.
The internet is kinda like the old witch burning days. Theyd find a witch and then burn her in the town square. But sometimes, people just probably wanted to burn somebody just to relieve boredom. And there were probably two kinds of people, those who thought burning people up was a bit sleazy and didnt like it, and other people who didnt care if she was even really a witch they just wanted to see something burn. I have no problem admitting which side of the fence im on. Other peoples suffering isnt entertainment. If you believe it is, then good luck to you, because you are doomed.
On October 12 2010 12:09 MutaDoom wrote: I don't even know what to say... I refuse to look at it. It's pathetic how far we've fallen as human beings monsters. For the people pushing him to do it... how the fuck can they live with themselves? I don't get it. The anonymity of the internet is ruining us all.
There are some interesting books and articles written about attitudes towards technology that touch on these kinds of things. Basically technology is good, but human beings are pretty much just dumb animals. So you put tech in the hands of animals you dont get evolution. The internet is cutting edge which is something we normally regard as valuable, but to be honest its getting a little old. Of course there is plenty of good stuff out there. But the internet is basically a watering hole with almost no rules against what is acceptable and what isnt. That is not healthy for the average idiot human. When people say that harsh rules are bad because they take away rights, you got to remember that most people dont deserve as much rights as they have. Yeah maybe you and your mom are great people but for every couple of decent people there are hundreds who would punch somebody out for their shoes or stab somebody over an argument drunk. I live in the bad part of town, and i always have. People are pretty much mindless meat bags around here. They are easily led, easily fooled, easily controlled. Laws need to change to reflect the reality of how sleazy people really are. Id give up a ton of my freedoms to be able to walk down the street with out getting the shit beat out of me for no reason. Id also give alot of my freedoms to be able to come online and not hear about what the latest sick shit is thats turned into a meme before noon every single day. Keep that shit out of my face. Not every person on this planet thinks its awesome when other people get hurt or killed. Some of us would rather be focused on how to improve reality.
You wouldn't happen to have any article or book names that you're referring to? I'm actually really interested, I've been saying it for a while, and I'd love to have some statistics to back up my claim. It's just depressing referring to shit like this suicide stream
There is a big difference between someone drinking and someone killing themselves while others encourage them on a forum.
Yes, there is, but this is a separate argument from the one you were making earlier, i.e. that the people who run/use the forum should somehow be responsible for other people's actions. I will not address the rest of your post because it is off-topic from your idiotic ideas, yet idiotic in its own new and exciting ways for anyone who is bored and wants to pick it apart.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
you're assuming harsh laws actually scare the shit out of those "mass idiots", so that they stop doing whatever stupidity it is they're doing. that's generally not the case.
On October 12 2010 12:09 MutaDoom wrote: I don't even know what to say... I refuse to look at it. It's pathetic how far we've fallen as human beings monsters. For the people pushing him to do it... how the fuck can they live with themselves? I don't get it. The anonymity of the internet is ruining us all.
There are some interesting books and articles written about attitudes towards technology that touch on these kinds of things. Basically technology is good, but human beings are pretty much just dumb animals. So you put tech in the hands of animals you dont get evolution. The internet is cutting edge which is something we normally regard as valuable, but to be honest its getting a little old. Of course there is plenty of good stuff out there. But the internet is basically a watering hole with almost no rules against what is acceptable and what isnt. That is not healthy for the average idiot human. When people say that harsh rules are bad because they take away rights, you got to remember that most people dont deserve as much rights as they have. Yeah maybe you and your mom are great people but for every couple of decent people there are hundreds who would punch somebody out for their shoes or stab somebody over an argument drunk. I live in the bad part of town, and i always have. People are pretty much mindless meat bags around here. They are easily led, easily fooled, easily controlled. Laws need to change to reflect the reality of how sleazy people really are. Id give up a ton of my freedoms to be able to walk down the street with out getting the shit beat out of me for no reason. Id also give alot of my freedoms to be able to come online and not hear about what the latest sick shit is thats turned into a meme before noon every single day. Keep that shit out of my face. Not every person on this planet thinks its awesome when other people get hurt or killed. Some of us would rather be focused on how to improve reality.
You wouldn't happen to have any article or book names that you're referring to? I'm actually really interested, I've been saying it for a while, and I'd love to have some statistics to back up my claim. It's just depressing referring to shit like this suicide stream
I cant recall. Something along the lines of "Attitudes Towards Technology" or something like that. Basically it talked about how younger generations will have percentages of people who arent as fascinated with newer technology as it becomes standard, and those generations will have a more skeptical view of how vital and useful those technologies are. Like TV. Its considered for morons. But the internet is somehow a magically place for the wise and informed. There will come a time when the internet is reduced to how we perceive TV now. Its like bnet 2 facebook integration. Yeah thats great i can add all my real life friends... so you rush out and dive into this great "new" technology. But then you realize its not really ideal. Be careful what you wish for. The internet is the same way. I dont see it going away any time soon of course. But i know so many people, especially younger people, who have defected from it and dont want anything to do with it unless they have to. Too many scams, too much sleaze, too much narrow spectrum of views being masqueraded as truth and law in the name of objectivity. Its just becoming a bummer. Letting anyone do anything is great until you realize who that "anyone" is.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
I highly doubt that, this is a Swedish forum, so crazy american laws don't apply
It's bullshit anyway, would never fly in court.
Maybe it should fly in court. People would think twice before doing that again.
Why would it fly in court. It's a suicide whether or not someone encouraged him to do it. And I don't even think that his decision would be any different because he had his mind set on what he was going to do when he made the topic.
On October 12 2010 12:17 LeaF_SD wrote:And for everyone saying that the posters of the forums are monsters and blah blah blah....come on....look, how many trolls are there in the internet. ALOT. So how can you blame them for posting something like that. There's hundreds of trolls here on TL, how can they possibly know if something is a joke or not
I bet most people who told him to do it didn't actually think he'd go through with it. Those who did are actually monsters. the rest just weren't thinking. If you're not sure if someone's serious or not why get involved? At best you\re feeding a troll, at worst you're pushing someone a little closer to suicide.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
you're assuming harsh laws actually scare the shit out of those "mass idiots", so that they stop doing whatever stupidity it is they're doing. that's generally not the case.
Well it wouldnt really matter if the law worked or not, theyd be put away. Therefore it works.
On October 12 2010 12:09 MutaDoom wrote: I don't even know what to say... I refuse to look at it. It's pathetic how far we've fallen as human beings monsters. For the people pushing him to do it... how the fuck can they live with themselves? I don't get it. The anonymity of the internet is ruining us all.
There are some interesting books and articles written about attitudes towards technology that touch on these kinds of things. Basically technology is good, but human beings are pretty much just dumb animals. So you put tech in the hands of animals you dont get evolution. The internet is cutting edge which is something we normally regard as valuable, but to be honest its getting a little old. Of course there is plenty of good stuff out there. But the internet is basically a watering hole with almost no rules against what is acceptable and what isnt. That is not healthy for the average idiot human. When people say that harsh rules are bad because they take away rights, you got to remember that most people dont deserve as much rights as they have. Yeah maybe you and your mom are great people but for every couple of decent people there are hundreds who would punch somebody out for their shoes or stab somebody over an argument drunk. I live in the bad part of town, and i always have. People are pretty much mindless meat bags around here. They are easily led, easily fooled, easily controlled. Laws need to change to reflect the reality of how sleazy people really are. Id give up a ton of my freedoms to be able to walk down the street with out getting the shit beat out of me for no reason. Id also give alot of my freedoms to be able to come online and not hear about what the latest sick shit is thats turned into a meme before noon every single day. Keep that shit out of my face. Not every person on this planet thinks its awesome when other people get hurt or killed. Some of us would rather be focused on how to improve reality.
You wouldn't happen to have any article or book names that you're referring to? I'm actually really interested, I've been saying it for a while, and I'd love to have some statistics to back up my claim. It's just depressing referring to shit like this suicide stream
I cant recall. Something along the lines of "Attitudes Towards Technology" or something like that. Basically it talked about how younger generations will have percentages of people who arent as fascinated with newer technology as it becomes standard, and those generations will have a more skeptical view of how vital and useful those technologies are. Like TV. Its considered for morons. But the internet is somehow a magically place for the wise and informed. There will come a time when the internet is reduced to how we perceive TV now. Its like bnet 2 facebook integration. Yeah thats great i can add all my real life friends... so you rush out and dive into this great "new" technology. But then you realize its not really ideal. Be careful what you wish for. The internet is the same way. I dont see it going away any time soon of course. But i know so many people, especially younger people, who have defected from it and dont want anything to do with it unless they have to. Too many scams, too much sleaze, too much narrow spectrum of views being masqueraded as truth and law in the name of objectivity. Its just becoming a bummer. Letting anyone do anything is great until you realize who that "anyone" is.
Sweet, thanks man. I'll be looking up something along those lines when I finish writing up my midterm here. Much appreciated :D
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
Sorry if this was already discussed but im going to bed soon and dont really want to read through all posts but is there any reason why he would stream his suicide? I mean obviously the guy was messed up in some way or another but that and streaming your suicide are two different stories. Really all i can come up with is him trying to get at least some kind of attention...or trying to get people to help him which ... well didnt really work out really well for him (not trying to sound like a heartless bastard but this really upsets me).
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
I want to stay away from this one, because I don't want to contribute to a flame war, but look what you just said: Nothing bad happened here? A person is dead. A real person. Who are you trying to convince? Something bad happened. It doesn't hurt you? I imagine it was pretty fucking traumatizing watching someone die. Just 'cuz it doesn't physically harm you, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
I want to stay away from this one, because I don't want to contribute to a flame war, but look what you just said: Nothing bad happened here? A person is dead. A real person. Who are you trying to convince? Something bad happened. It doesn't hurt you? I imagine it was pretty fucking traumatizing watching someone die. Just 'cuz it doesn't physically harm you, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
It's not really "bad" if a person dies. This whole stigma against dying is pretty weird to me. Sure, when people are killed, THAT'S bad. This guy apparently wanted out of this world. He took painkillers, probably died calmly, except for the asphyxiation part.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
I want to stay away from this one, because I don't want to contribute to a flame war, but look what you just said: Nothing bad happened here? A person is dead. A real person. Who are you trying to convince? Something bad happened. It doesn't hurt you? I imagine it was pretty fucking traumatizing watching someone die. Just 'cuz it doesn't physically harm you, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
It's not really "bad" if a person dies. This whole stigma against dying is pretty weird to me. Sure, when people are killed, THAT'S bad. This guy apparently wanted out of this world. He took painkillers, probably died calmly, except for the asphyxiation part.
I dunno, personally the whole "killing yourself (Probably unnecessarily, I can't say for sure) while people egg you on" seems pretty bad. Maybe I'm just a bleeding heart, but that's probably why I'm taking social work in school.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
I want to stay away from this one, because I don't want to contribute to a flame war, but look what you just said: Nothing bad happened here? A person is dead. A real person. Who are you trying to convince? Something bad happened. It doesn't hurt you? I imagine it was pretty fucking traumatizing watching someone die. Just 'cuz it doesn't physically harm you, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
As I said before in this thread there are thousands of people dying. Right now. Real people. You don't get traumatized over all of them, and for good reason. You shouldn't, if you were that empathetic you'd kill yourself too.
The truth is none of us would have ever known about this if he hadn't streamed it. This dude streamed his death TO "traumatize" or at least get a reaction from the overly-empathetic mass, and it obviously worked.
I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. It's his damn life, he can do whatever he wants with it. I'm saying that if you charge someone who watched it ten years it's an idiotic waste of taxpayer dollars (and a lot of it) just because they didn't care that someone they didn't know killed themself.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
I want to stay away from this one, because I don't want to contribute to a flame war, but look what you just said: Nothing bad happened here? A person is dead. A real person. Who are you trying to convince? Something bad happened. It doesn't hurt you? I imagine it was pretty fucking traumatizing watching someone die. Just 'cuz it doesn't physically harm you, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
As I said before in this thread there are thousands of people dying. Right now. Real people. You don't get traumatized over all of them, and for good reason. You shouldn't, if you were that empathetic you'd kill yourself too.
The truth is none of us would have ever known about this if he hadn't streamed it. This dude streamed his death TO "traumatize" or at least get a reaction from the overly-empathetic mass, and it obviously worked.
I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. It's his damn life, he can do whatever he wants with it. I'm saying that if you charge someone who watched it ten years it's an idiotic waste of taxpayer dollars (and a lot of it) just because they didn't care that someone they didn't know killed themself.
Sorry, I guess I should have worded that differently. I didn't mean to convey that I agree with charging people or any of that jazz, because I definitely don't. That wouldn't solve anything. I just meant that I absolutely think there was something bad that happened. Thousands of people dying are irrelevant, because they're not putting it online for people to stumble across. This guy did, and that's why this is "bad". People die, it's an inevitability. I just don't want to see it or think about it. Ignorance is bliss.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
you're assuming harsh laws actually scare the shit out of those "mass idiots", so that they stop doing whatever stupidity it is they're doing. that's generally not the case.
Well it wouldnt really matter if the law worked or not, theyd be put away. Therefore it works.
i see, i thought you actually wanted this shit to stop.
if your goal is to just throw everyone who does dumb shit on the internet in jail for life, i guess these laws would work. you'll need a hell of a lot of jails, though.
i understand why you're angry, but sometimes bad things just happen and no one really is to blame. and of course, making laws based on anger is generally not a good idea.
this reminds me of a case we had in spain a few years ago. a skinhead beat up a girl in the subway and a security camera filmed it. on the video you could see a teenager sitting a few rows in front who did nothing. the next day, everyone in the media started raging on the guy. they talked about how the youth was becoming insensitive and demanded harsher laws for these type of situations bla bla bla. well, the truth is the poor guy was scared as hell... anyone should be able to understand this. and while people were pointing fingers at him, the media seemed to forget about the true asshole of the story, wich of course was the skinhead who was commiting a crime in the first place.
in this case, a guy killed himself live on the internet and people, at first, thought it was a joke. when they realised it wasn't, it was already too late (we'll never know if it could have beena voided at all). it's not the people watching that killed him, it was the guy himself... and it was his decision to broadcast it. he got to that point in his life without even knowing all the people you'd want to throw in jail now.
so i don't think it's a good idea to start attacking the people who witnessed this tragedy. my guess is, most of them feel bad enough right now and they'll probably never be able forget this (especially the ones who encouraged him). as badass as some people like to present themselves on the internet, there are a lot less "monsters" running around than some people think.
I saw a collage video of people making suicides from golden gate bridge with melancholic music playing on the backround, apparently its quite common in there. (according to that video that is). It was on youtube and didnt actually expect it to show those jumpings. It was made in memory of those people. Found it rather depressing nonetheless.
My heart goes out for you if you witnessed such a sad scene live.
I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die.
Thousands of people die every second, it's true. Some of those deaths are tragic and sad, and others are not. And the degree to which we feel pain and loss will necessarily depend on how close we are to a person who dies. However, none of that matters here.
When a tragedy happens, it's weight isn't diminished by the frequency of similar tragedies. If anything, it's amplified. Furthermore, it's impossible to escape the fact that people who took pleasure in this man's death, or in the fantasy of it, have done something deplorable.
And to people who don't recognize the tragedy here -- you live in a very small world indeed.
On October 12 2010 12:08 Mellotron wrote: Those arent laws, im just talking about how you could clean up the internet. There needs to be more blame scattered less fairly to scare the shit out of everyone. They need to make it so if you are anywhere near it you are just as guilty. Its stupid and unfair but thats how you control mass idiots, which is pretty much what the world is filled with. Im not trying to be mean here, but anyone who would sit and watch someone kill themself online is pretty much a scumbag. I mean seriously, would you let your daughter be babysat by a dude who "hated" child porn yet sat and watched it all day as entertainment? People who sit and stare at morbid shit online its nothing more than just a TV show to them. It doesnt matter how "sad" you claim to be later. If you are in on it you are guilty. I dont know about you but its getting a little old.
This is probably the most pretentious pile of shit I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
What are they guilty of? Nothing "bad" happened here. What if that dudes life was really shitty? You have no idea what the situation was, and him killing himself doesn't "hurt" you in the slightest. Then you're trivializing his decision to take his own life saying "it's just like child porn" and saying other people are guilty of killing him? No one put the noose around his neck except himself. You're attempt to blame everyone else is reminiscent of mass idiot thinking in America based around one thing: Blame other people for everything.
Love your high horse though, especially when you are clearly one of the idiots you're referring to. I hope you realize just how pretentious you are. Worse than a damn preacher.
I want to stay away from this one, because I don't want to contribute to a flame war, but look what you just said: Nothing bad happened here? A person is dead. A real person. Who are you trying to convince? Something bad happened. It doesn't hurt you? I imagine it was pretty fucking traumatizing watching someone die. Just 'cuz it doesn't physically harm you, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
As I said before in this thread there are thousands of people dying. Right now. Real people. You don't get traumatized over all of them, and for good reason. You shouldn't, if you were that empathetic you'd kill yourself too.
The truth is none of us would have ever known about this if he hadn't streamed it. This dude streamed his death TO "traumatize" or at least get a reaction from the overly-empathetic mass, and it obviously worked.
I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. It's his damn life, he can do whatever he wants with it. I'm saying that if you charge someone who watched it ten years it's an idiotic waste of taxpayer dollars (and a lot of it) just because they didn't care that someone they didn't know killed themself.
Sorry, I guess I should have worded that differently. I didn't mean to convey that I agree with charging people or any of that jazz, because I definitely don't. That wouldn't solve anything. I just meant that I absolutely think there was something bad that happened. Thousands of people dying are irrelevant, because they're not putting it online for people to stumble across. This guy did, and that's why this is "bad".
Empathy should be used as a tool, not a crutch. Even though we cannot control our emotions, we're intelligent beings that can realize when they are illogical. Think about it this way: Even if you see the video/saw the stream, next year same time, you won't even remember this guy. Your empathy is misguided. The shock value, even if its your first time seeing someone die, will wear off with time because it was not someone you were emotionally attached to.
TBH though, I think you can have whatever you of ethics you please, as long as it doesn't involve incarcerating innocent people for retarded reasons. That's the only thing I got mad about.
He streamed it because he wanted his last act to be seen. Don't people understand why someone who felt so alone would long for some kind of interaction and recognition? It seems he lived a very lonely life, and in his dying hour, he was able to feel some kind of connection to some random people on a forum. I understand that it seems sick, but it is reasonable.
In photos, I noticed he was wearing a T-shirt with the famous Nike slogan, "Just Do It", in large letters across the front. I highly doubt this was an accident. He was making his final moments into a performance of sorts, and it was probably planned prior to his actions. To me it seems that, having made up his mind to end it, he was able to see things in a macabrely humorous manner.
It is a shame that it had to end like this. He was probably a nice guy that we could have all gotten along with and maybe in a better world he could have been helped. But he seemed resolute in his actions, and this world isn't made for everyone. In my opinion, his suicide shouldn't be looked upon as disgusting or weak, but as a point of solemn contemplation: He was unsatisfied with his life so he took the measures he saw fit to remedy this. His act, to me, is an affirmation of a man's autonomy over his life. He undertook an action of almost unparalleled taboo because, for him, it seemed the best option. All I hope is that his final thoughts were peaceful because what else is there to hope for?
On October 12 2010 13:13 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: Thousands of people die every second, it's true. Some of those deaths are tragic and sad, and others are not. And the degree to which we feel pain and loss will necessarily depend on how close we are to a person who dies. However, none of that matters here.
When a tragedy happens, it's weight isn't diminished by the frequency of similar tragedies. If anything, it's amplified. Furthermore, it's impossible to escape the fact that people who took pleasure in this man's death, or in the fantasy of it, have done something deplorable.
And to people who don't recognize the tragedy here -- you live in a very small world indeed.
Clarify the tragedy for my "small world" then. If he killed himself and went through with it he probably had a pretty good reason and then chose to do it himself. There is nothing tragic here.
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
On October 12 2010 13:19 Coagulation wrote: he said he was lonely so it was probably a cry for attention.
That's pretty stupid what good is attention when you are dead(not to say that isn't the reason, just that it's amazingly dumb)
suicide attempts are often a cry for help, where the person doesn't really want to die. in this case, maybe he did broadcast it because he kinda hoped someone would stop it in time.
From what I gather he had weighed up his decision in at least something close to a rational and sane perspective. Quite tragic, but I guess it just suggests that for some people their experience and fulfillment in life is lacking enough to make it not worth continuing.
As for why he streamed it, it seems fairly obvious that attention is the motive, in just the same way that people update their facebook status, or twitter or w/e else it is.
On October 12 2010 13:18 travis wrote: So did he give any reasoning as to why he wanted to stream this? Just to bum a lot of people out? Or was it a "revenge on the world" type deal?
Apparently 'he' had been thinking about suicide for some time. Considering how he was obviously prepared to go through with it (web-casting setup, priorly tried to strangulate himself to understand how it could feel to do it for real, asked on facebook for alternatives to regular rope), it might be the case that he was just trying to set himself up in a scenario where he couldn't back down; ie. in front of a crowd.
On October 12 2010 13:19 Coagulation wrote: he said he was lonely so it was probably a cry for attention.
That's pretty stupid what good is attention when you are dead(not to say that isn't the reason, just that it's amazingly dumb)
suicide attempts are often a cry for help, where the person doesn't really want to die. in this case, maybe he did broadcast it because he kinda hoped someone would stop it in time.
More often it's because they want to kill themselves.
On October 12 2010 13:13 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: Thousands of people die every second, it's true. Some of those deaths are tragic and sad, and others are not. And the degree to which we feel pain and loss will necessarily depend on how close we are to a person who dies. However, none of that matters here.
When a tragedy happens, it's weight isn't diminished by the frequency of similar tragedies. If anything, it's amplified. Furthermore, it's impossible to escape the fact that people who took pleasure in this man's death, or in the fantasy of it, have done something deplorable.
And to people who don't recognize the tragedy here -- you live in a very small world indeed.
Clarify the tragedy for my "small world" then. If he killed himself and went through with it he probably had a pretty good reason and then chose to do it himself. There is nothing tragic here.
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
I'm not going to get in a flame war with you over this. I also note that I didn't call you out -- you self-identified here.
A suicide is a tragedy because it represents missed opportunity, and because it means that a person lived in a condition that he considered to be unbearable misery. He will never experience love, joy, or pain again, and nobody will ever get the chance to interact with him again. The universe is a poorer place by exactly one person. I'm sorry you can't see the tragedy in that.
If I was going to kill myself it would be an a much more epic way than by a hanging. I'd at least want to have fun with it, but see.. I suppose that's why I wouldn't kill myself. I live for myself. I enjoy who I am. It's sad to see people who hate themselves enough to do such a thing. Though I understand the mindset, I feel like it sometimes, I'm sure some others have before as well. It's a dark disconnected road, and it becomes a tunnel shortly after traveled.
On October 12 2010 13:13 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: Thousands of people die every second, it's true. Some of those deaths are tragic and sad, and others are not. And the degree to which we feel pain and loss will necessarily depend on how close we are to a person who dies. However, none of that matters here.
When a tragedy happens, it's weight isn't diminished by the frequency of similar tragedies. If anything, it's amplified. Furthermore, it's impossible to escape the fact that people who took pleasure in this man's death, or in the fantasy of it, have done something deplorable.
And to people who don't recognize the tragedy here -- you live in a very small world indeed.
Clarify the tragedy for my "small world" then. If he killed himself and went through with it he probably had a pretty good reason and then chose to do it himself. There is nothing tragic here.
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
I'm not going to get in a flame war with you over this. I also note that I didn't call you out -- you self-identified here.
A suicide is a tragedy because it represents missed opportunity, and because it means that a person lived in a condition that he considered to be unbearable misery. He will never experience love, joy, or pain again, and nobody will ever get the chance to interact with him again. The universe is a poorer place by exactly one person. I'm sorry you can't see the tragedy in that.
That's death in general, not specific to suicide.
But I do agree suicide can be tragedy but under different rationales. Suicide extends beyond the individual who decided to suicide but is often a reflection of some of the general flaws in our society. For example the girl who killed herself for being called a slut by classmates for sleeping with the senior just brings up the general problems of school bullying, unequal gender roles, etc... that all lead to the death. So the real tragedy isn't the loss of life imo (although it's bad) but rather the subtle flaws in our society that pushed the person to die, and how society continues to neglect or focus on why these deaths occurred. Some movement has been made towards bullying and such, but in reality nothing happens. Someone dies, we hold a funeral, grieve a bit, then move on as if nothing happened. That's the real tragedy.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
I highly doubt that, this is a Swedish forum, so crazy american laws don't apply
It's bullshit anyway, would never fly in court.
Maybe it should fly in court. People would think twice before doing that again.
Why would it fly in court. It's a suicide whether or not someone encouraged him to do it.
You do know that you can be sentenced for "murder by negligence" if you actually encourage someone to commit suicide and he did?
On October 12 2010 13:52 aztrorisk wrote: I found this link on the website, however I didn't want to look at it because of what it might contain. Can somebody look at it and tell me.
EDIT: Link removed due to nature of content.
It's him... rather, his body. From what I can see, it seems to be only a couple of minutes after his death; no pale / mottled skin.
On October 12 2010 13:19 Coagulation wrote: he said he was lonely so it was probably a cry for attention.
That's pretty stupid what good is attention when you are dead(not to say that isn't the reason, just that it's amazingly dumb)
suicide attempts are often a cry for help, where the person doesn't really want to die. in this case, maybe he did broadcast it because he kinda hoped someone would stop it in time.
More often it's because they want to kill themselves.
look up the term "parasuicide". i'm not making this up.
On October 12 2010 13:52 aztrorisk wrote: I found this link on the website, however I didn't want to look at it because of what it might contain. Can somebody look at it and tell me.
On October 12 2010 12:00 Mellotron wrote: 10 years to life for anyone participating in the chat at the time he killed himself. 25 years to life for whoever runs the forum it took place in.
The Mellotron Principle Of Distributed Suffering: If one man dies, immediately try to ruin the lives of as many other people as possible, so that the tragedy gets all spread out and doesn't coagulate.
On October 12 2010 13:30 throttled wrote: Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
Oh my god the ignorance.
It is the retarded ideology like that which prevents people from seeking help when depressed. Suicide is a mental illness. This isn't the theory of evolution here - it isn't the weak will die and the strong will live through suicidal tendencies. It is more than just sheer willpower and coping with stress.
Yeah screw suicidal people. They brought it on themselves. Just like the anorexic and bulimic people. How fucking hard is it to fucking eat some food? Or how hard is it to not purge after eating a meal? Who cares about the social constructs the media and entertainment has created. Every model is photoshopped, every actress and actor sits through hours of make-up and maintenance through the cast of a movie or television series, and people are told that if they don't look a certain way they just won't appeal to the opposite sex. If you aren't pretty, if you don't look like this girl on MTV, you aren't fulfilling your gender role. Girls aren't supposed to be fat. They have to be skinny and beautiful. And after through social conditioning and being brought up in this current world, the only thing you can seem to understand is that you're never going to be good enough. Whether it be how skinny you are, how successful you are, or how happy you are.
If you don't think middle school girls dying from anorexia is tragic then you obviously have a very shallow understanding of how ironic and tragic that is. And you honestly think suicide is any different? We grow up in a world where all our role models are happy and problem-free. We are taught to be happy, and any behavior otherwise is shunned. Especially for males. You know what happens when you seem depressed in school? People don't want to help you, they fucking ignore you. They dissociate themselves with anything that they don't perceive to be normal behavior. You know what else isn't perceived as normal behavior? OH SHIT HERE IT COMES... ASPERGER'S.
Suicide is a difficult situation to assess because of how individual and unique each case is. But I'm really glad so many people in this day and age love to form opinions and think they can understand better what suicide is than a practicing psychologist with half a decade of knowledge and hands-on experience. Even if someone truly believes for whatever hilarious reason that suicide is for weak people - hopefully they can smarten quick and shut the fuck up before they become the exact same people who might've pushed this guy over the edge. If you're not helping the situation, just shut the hell up. How hard is it? How many people need to die from harassment and suicide-encouragement until people get a clue?
Dude that must of been absolutely horrible to witness. Don't feel to down man, at least you weren't one of the assholes that edge him to do it. You tried to stop it.
On October 12 2010 13:09 lvatural wrote: I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die.
OMG Aspies are not mentally disabled. You could seriously offend someone, wow.
Theres a Brazilian forum named forum off where these kinds of weird shit happened, a guy made up a fucking HUGE ASS RIDDLE saying people had 48 hours to guess what it was, and like 20 hours later he killed himself.
sorry to go of topic on this. What you said makes no sense at all!??!!?
because the Swedish news sites write about it, it is real? LOLOLOL, beware what you believe, Dutch media site geenstijl.nl already fucking around with fake news, and trust me. Actual highly respected news sources thought it was real. But it was just to point out how unreal they are...
sorry for off topic read the post above this one
Yeah I know I sound a bit naive there lol, but I think it is kind of far fetched to think it was not real when you actually see on the stream that police officers break into the guys house. That in combination with that it was reported in the news made me think that this is not a regular internet troll as many had predicted.
sick fuckers are making joke threads about that guy. Several people have downloaded the pictures and now there is even a torrent with all of them on the piratebay.. Some dude is working on a a movie and gifs.. Haven't encountered this kind of cruelty for a lot time. Inhuman internet morons.
At first, reading some of these skewed and terrible opinions on suicide frightened me.
Now I realize that I need not do anything but remember who they're coming from: kids trying to sound tough on the internet and take a "realist" view of life.
On October 12 2010 13:30 throttled wrote: Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
Oh my god the ignorance.
It is the retarded ideology like that which prevents people from seeking help when depressed. Suicide is a mental illness. This isn't the theory of evolution here - it isn't the weak will die and the strong will live through suicidal tendencies. It is more than just sheer willpower and coping with stress.
Yeah screw suicidal people. They brought it on themselves. Just like the anorexic and bulimic people. How fucking hard is it to fucking eat some food? Or how hard is it to not purge after eating a meal? Who cares about the social constructs the media and entertainment has created. Every model is photoshopped, every actress and actor sits through hours of make-up and maintenance through the cast of a movie or television series, and people are told that if they don't look a certain way they just won't appeal to the opposite sex. If you aren't pretty, if you don't look like this girl on MTV, you aren't fulfilling your gender role. Girls aren't supposed to be fat. They have to be skinny and beautiful. And after through social conditioning and being brought up in this current world, the only thing you can seem to understand is that you're never going to be good enough. Whether it be how skinny you are, how successful you are, or how happy you are.
If you don't think middle school girls dying from anorexia is tragic then you obviously have a very shallow understanding of how ironic and tragic that is. And you honestly think suicide is any different? We grow up in a world where all our role models are happy and problem-free. We are taught to be happy, and any behavior otherwise is shunned. Especially for males. You know what happens when you seem depressed in school? People don't want to help you, they fucking ignore you. They dissociate themselves with anything that they don't perceive to be normal behavior. You know what else isn't perceived as normal behavior? OH SHIT HERE IT COMES... ASPERGER'S.
Suicide is a difficult situation to assess because of how individual and unique each case is. But I'm really glad so many people in this day and age love to form opinions and think they can understand better what suicide is than a practicing psychologist with half a decade of knowledge and hands-on experience. Even if someone truly believes for whatever hilarious reason that suicide is for weak people - hopefully they can smarten quick and shut the fuck up before they become the exact same people who might've pushed this guy over the edge. If you're not helping the situation, just shut the hell up. How hard is it? How many people need to die from harassment and suicide-encouragement until people get a clue?
I can offer you a few aphorisms, tell me how you like them.
-Beauty is what it is by virtue of being uncommon, difficult, rare.
-Dying to reach beauty isn't a tragedy to me. It's exceptional determination to achieve an exceptional and difficult goal. Maybe to you this type of wealth seems vain, maybe it is, who's to say? Most people do mortgage a lot of their youth for monetary wealth, don't they.
-Maybe some people are glad to have exceptional behavior. Maybe people should be glad, provided they can take it onto themselves.
-The strong individual perhaps does not allow himself to be valued less than he believes to be worth. The weak individual perhaps, surrounds himself with common people of common taste, like a slave to herd-instinct.
On October 12 2010 13:30 throttled wrote: Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
Oh my god the ignorance.
It is the retarded ideology like that which prevents people from seeking help when depressed. Suicide is a mental illness. This isn't the theory of evolution here - it isn't the weak will die and the strong will live through suicidal tendencies. It is more than just sheer willpower and coping with stress.
Yeah screw suicidal people. They brought it on themselves. Just like the anorexic and bulimic people. How fucking hard is it to fucking eat some food? Or how hard is it to not purge after eating a meal? Who cares about the social constructs the media and entertainment has created. Every model is photoshopped, every actress and actor sits through hours of make-up and maintenance through the cast of a movie or television series, and people are told that if they don't look a certain way they just won't appeal to the opposite sex. If you aren't pretty, if you don't look like this girl on MTV, you aren't fulfilling your gender role. Girls aren't supposed to be fat. They have to be skinny and beautiful. And after through social conditioning and being brought up in this current world, the only thing you can seem to understand is that you're never going to be good enough. Whether it be how skinny you are, how successful you are, or how happy you are.
If you don't think middle school girls dying from anorexia is tragic then you obviously have a very shallow understanding of how ironic and tragic that is. And you honestly think suicide is any different? We grow up in a world where all our role models are happy and problem-free. We are taught to be happy, and any behavior otherwise is shunned. Especially for males. You know what happens when you seem depressed in school? People don't want to help you, they fucking ignore you. They dissociate themselves with anything that they don't perceive to be normal behavior. You know what else isn't perceived as normal behavior? OH SHIT HERE IT COMES... ASPERGER'S.
Suicide is a difficult situation to assess because of how individual and unique each case is. But I'm really glad so many people in this day and age love to form opinions and think they can understand better what suicide is than a practicing psychologist with half a decade of knowledge and hands-on experience. Even if someone truly believes for whatever hilarious reason that suicide is for weak people - hopefully they can smarten quick and shut the fuck up before they become the exact same people who might've pushed this guy over the edge. If you're not helping the situation, just shut the hell up. How hard is it? How many people need to die from harassment and suicide-encouragement until people get a clue?
Thank you.
I invite all the people posting their "strongly held beliefs" in this thread to take an hour to actually read up about suicide. If you want to really appreciate the depth of this topic, research assisted suicide for those unable to kill themselves alone (see right to die).
If anything this thread reminds me of, it's that the biggest issue with humanity is not the bad people or the evil in our hearts. It is our indifference towards other beings.
On October 12 2010 15:01 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: At first, reading some of these skewed and terrible opinions on suicide frightened me.
Now I realize that I need not do anything but remember who they're coming from: kids trying to sound tough on the internet and take a "realist" view of life.
The art of always being right:
1) Declare that everyone else is terribly wrong. 2) Challenge their thesis by appealing to their motive .
If you find the content of this thread or nature of the discussion distasteful there is a wonderful option available to you.
You stop reading it.
The reason this is a "better" alternative is because of a logic jump underlying your reasoning
I find discussion of suicide in any way to be disgusting. therefore discussion of suicide in any way IS disgusting Therefore this thread should be closed on grounds of decency.
I've bolded your unfounded assumption so you do not make the same mistake in future.
I like how the Swedish media is covering this. "Young mang, bullied into hanging himself!" Christ, yes this is a tragedy, but the amount of trolls on the forums are what has made people cold and blunt, AKA no one thought he was serious. Now they're in the media talking about how this is a criminal offense and doing interviews with people saying "It's sad to see that people were cheering him on, not stopping him". What a bullshit title. I guess I didn't expect anything less from them though.
If there weren't so many retarded people in the world someone would've called the police as soon as the thread opened. Funny thing is, 'suicide trolls' so to speak won't realize they're part of the problem. Oh the internet, you sure have your flaws.
Edit: Just realized how much this thread ruined my morning. Fuck sake, not the kind of thing I like waking up to.
On October 12 2010 15:22 XeliN wrote: If you find the content of this thread or nature of the discussion distasteful there is a wonderful option available to you.
You stop reading it.
The reason this is a "better" alternative is because of a logic jump underlying your reasoning
I find discussion of suicide in any way to be disgusting. therefore discussion of suicide in any way IS disgusting Therefore this thread should be closed on grounds of decency.
I've bolded your unfounded assumption so you do not make the same mistake in future.
You might be making a fallacy yourself, strawman argument. Maybe he really can prove that discussion of suicide is ipso facto disgusting.
Sad story. The people on the internet are the last people to blame for what happened though and being angry at trolls or people not reacting sooner is absolutely ridiculous. The internet didn't bully him. The internet didn't make him feel as if his life wasn't worth living.
ya I saw this video earlier today. It was on fucking youtube for a good half hour! I almost linked it to TL, but I didn't feel like getting banned.
I think it's just really a sad situation. I saw someone with a blue shirt in the frame, which might have been his roommate? I personally have never heard of a situation where someone commited suicide and I was like "Ya, he definitely made the right decision." I understand that people who do commit suicide honestly believe that they have no other options, but there are always options, no matter the situation.
No, because I didn't state his argument was ipso facto wrong, just that in it's current form it is based upon an unfounded assumption.
I don't know what ipso facto means but im guessing something like "objectively true" or established fact" if i've used it wrongly, then that is what I mean.
So, I had a very long (like, 7 paragraph) post written in this thread, but I decided it was far too personal because people I know IRL visit TL, so I'll just comment on this:
On October 12 2010 15:32 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:I understand that people who do commit suicide honestly believe that they have no other options, but there are always options, no matter the situation.
This is very similar to my point of view. Suicide isn't some strange, alien concept, and people who treat it as such are just being silly. Suicide not only makes sense, it borders on a logical response. Before you flame me for that, let me explain. Someone who commits suicide is in a lot of pain. What is the natural response when you're in pain? You look for a way to relieve it, obviously. For these people, the most obvious, the most simply, and often times the only apparent way to get away from the pain is just to commit suicide.
That to me, is the problem with suicide prevention at the moment. So many people act like its obviously an illogical choice. What we need to do is publicize the other options and make them accessible. Moreover, we just need to discuss suicide. It needs to become something people aren't ashamed of thinking about. We need to shift paradigms so that when someone says "I want to kill myself" we don't react bombastically and try to medicate them and treat them differently, but rather just talk to them.
The chat/webcam session apparently began by Vedas smoking cannabis in preparation, and then logging into the IRC channel. Upon entering the channel he announced “i got a grip of drugs” and indicated that his webcam was up, and that chatters were welcome to view his “grip of drugs” and his subsequent ingestion thereof. While some of the substances were illicit (e.g. cannabis), most of them had apparently been obtained through legitimate prescriptions for treatment of various illnesses from which Vedas was said to have suffered.
Vedas then began consuming psilocybe mushrooms, which had been stored in a prescription medication bottle. As the chat session progressed, one of the users in the channel, grphish, noted “that's a lot of clonazepam” and this is thought to be when Vedas consumed 8 mg of clonazepam. Vedas continued by showing the webcam viewers what would be one of four bottles of methadone that he would consume over the course of the session, and, after noting this on the channel, proceeded to consume an entire bottle (reportedly 80 mg of methadone). After a brief respite, Vedas then consumed 110 mg of propranolol (Inderal), two Vicodin tablets, and 120 mg temazepam, which seem to have been taken in between descriptions given on the IRC channel.
During this process, Vedas maintained that this was "usual weekend behavior" for him and that he had consumed similar quantities of the same substances on previous occasions. "I told u I was hardcore" was one of the last things Vedas typed, and is often used sarcastically on internet message boards and discussion sites.
Upon consuming the remainder of the original batch of drugs from the beginning of the webcam session, Vedas began to retrieve and prepare to consume even more drugs that he had stashed throughout the room. It was at this point that the users of the channel began to voice their concerns that Vedas was taking things too far. Some pleaded with him to stop while others recommended that he seek immediate medical attention. After taking another large quantity of the same drugs he had already ingested, Vedas gave instructions that if anything were to go wrong, that they should try to contact him by calling his cell phone, and if that didn't work, they should call the local authorities and give them the license plate number of his car, which was parked in his driveway and could easily be seen from the street.
When Vedas lost consciousness, users of the chatroom considered informing the police and asking that they trace Vedas's cellphone in order to locate him. However, the members of the channel were hesitant to contact the authorities for fear of involving Vedas and/or themselves in a police investigation. According to the chat logs, one user had even called 9-1-1 and asked the group if he was doing the right thing. After an emphatic "NO" response from another user, the user said "I talked my way out of it." and claimed that the police told them that there was no way to find Vedas with the information available.
According to Vedas's brother, the information Brandon gave to the users in the chat, as well as the address in his domain name registration would have been enough for the police to locate Brandon, which he confirmed with local police. Later, Vedas's brother said about the incident, "It seems like the group mentality really contributed to it. These people treat it like somehow it's not the real world. They forget it's not just words on a screen."
His mother discovered the body in the afternoon of January 12, 2003.
On October 12 2010 15:42 Jacobs Ladder wrote: So, I had a very long (like, 7 paragraph) post written in this thread, but I decided it was far too personal because people I know IRL visit TL, so I'll just comment on this:
On October 12 2010 15:32 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:I understand that people who do commit suicide honestly believe that they have no other options, but there are always options, no matter the situation.
This is very similar to my point of view. Suicide isn't some strange, alien concept, and people who treat it as such are just being silly. Suicide not only makes sense, it borders on a logical response. Before you flame me for that, let me explain. Someone who commits suicide is in a lot of pain. What is the natural response when you're in pain? You look for a way to relieve it, obviously. For these people, the most obvious, the most simply, and often times the only apparent way to get away from the pain is just to commit suicide.
That to me, is the problem with suicide prevention at the moment. So many people act like its obviously an illogical choice. What we need to do is publicize the other options and make them accessible. Moreover, we just need to discuss suicide. It needs to become something people aren't ashamed of thinking about. We need to shift paradigms so that when someone says "I want to kill myself" we don't react bombastically and try to medicate them and treat them differently, but rather just talk to them.
So there is my personally biased opinion :D.
I very much agree with the first part. Someone said earlier that suicide is tragic because it represents lost opportunity. That's true but for me that fact that someone experiences so much suffering and pain while seeing absolutely no hope at all is possibly even worse.
I'm a little torn on the other point. Every time I read posts saying: "How could anyone do that to their friends and family" "he's just a coward" etc. I have an ambivalent feeling. On the one hand using guilt and shame to stop someone who's already depressed from hurting themselves feels wrong. It will just make them feel worse. However I do think that attitudes toward suicide might make a difference in crisis situations. A religious person might decide not to kill himself for the sole reason that it would mean going to hell. Or someone might decide to live for the sake of his family. It's not a good long term solution but at least if he stays alive there's a chance he finds a way to solve his problems. I wouldn't tell anyone that they should be ashamed of themselves for thinking about suicide or that only terrible people kill themselves. But if someone did want to commit suicide and felt bad about it, questioning those feelings wouldn't be a priority. It might be the only thing keeping them alive at the moment.
On October 12 2010 16:08 piny wrote: holy shet, thats intense, imagine how the guys trolling felt afterwards..
Honestly, who cares about them? You should always take things like this seriously, it's way better to feed the trolls than to have this happening. This is why I hate trolling, unless you make it really obvious. Although, I don't think any posts from random strangers would have changed the guys mind. I've been lurkering that forum for some time and when I saw his thread but by then he was already dead. What disturbs me the most is his last post when he's having second thought and decide to just do it before he could change his mind.
Hopefully this doesnt come off as another one of those "high horse" post
From a perfectly logical standpoint. Suiciding is a bad decision, (almost) always. Forget the part where you hurt your family, your friends, anyone who happened to love you for the moment. If you are going to give up that life anyway, why not donating all your money to charity, cutting all ties, and devote your life as a social worker? That which was gonna be nothing (said life) will become useful, and help improve/save that of some others. As someone have mentioned in an earlier post, suicide is almost a logical response to ease one's pain when it becomes too hard to handle. But (imo) running away is the easier option, choosing to endure and try to make the world a better place, while might be harder (having to live with part of said pain thats been tormenting you), is (imo) clearly the better choice overall.
Who knows, after seeing for yourself other people's suffering, and helping them overcome it, one might find other meaning to his life and come back anew.
Having thoughts laid out like personally make it much easier on me. Everytime similar depressing thoughts surfaced, they are dispersed quickly. Only if it could have been the same for some others.
On October 12 2010 16:39 ffreakk wrote: suicide is almost a logical response to ease one's pain when it becomes too hard to handle. But (imo) running away is the easier option, choosing to endure and try to make the world a better place, while might be harder (having to live with part of said pain thats been tormenting you), is (imo) clearly the better choice overall.
No shit offing yourself is the easier option. If they wanted to deal with the crap life has thrown at them they obviously wouldn't be considering suicide. Your opinion that they should deal with the problem to find meaning in their life is ridiculous. If somebody seriously wants to fucking kill themselves do you think they give a shit about trying to "eundure and make the world a better place" ? Get a grip.
They don't feel like dealing with the shit live has thrown at them and possibly have psychological issues that need treatment. If they are at the point where they are going to commit suicide they need some serious help not a fucking pep talk about improving the world that has shit all over them.
On October 12 2010 13:09 lvatural wrote: I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die.
I have asperger's and I'm not mentally disabled, IQ of like 130 actually. Also, you can work on the problems if you put some effort into it, it's pretty difficult at start but it gets better from my experience. You just don't have the "social skills" as a common sense like others and need to copy others to begin with but it'll be okay after you practice it for a while, you don't HAVE to just succumb to it.
That being said this is quite sad and must have been horrible to witness. Don't really get people who commit suicide.
WTF man I saw it too. I hate the internet because of this, ppl are getting used to this kind of stuff each day... first you shock when you see sth like that and then you start to feel nothing for each thing you see...
Meh you can call me heartless if you want but I really don't see incidents like this as anything but attention whoring. All of the "omg wtf, lets point a finger at someone" are exactly what they are aiming for, so I'm extremely content with denying them that.
I can never really understand the idea of suicide.
Sure, shit sucks sometimes, and maybe life's not all rainbows and sunshine, but there's still the little things, aren't there? That's what I live for. The good moments.
On October 12 2010 17:12 .Aar wrote: I can never really understand the idea of suicide.
Sure, shit sucks sometimes, and maybe life's not all rainbows and sunshine, but there's still the little things, aren't there? That's what I live for. The good moments.
I have never felt suicidal, however, I would never say that people who are feel that way just because shit sucks some times and they don't like rainbows. They are obviously very troubled and need help. I can absolutely understand the idea that some people feel like there is nothing worth living for and that it is easier to just end it.
suicide is a horrible thing, if there are problems that are causing you to have suicidal thoughts then u should try to fix them if not for yourself then try to help others from doing the same.
u should always try to do a possitive thing and this is not possitive at all. :/
On October 12 2010 08:00 NonFactor wrote: Just read some pages on that thread, the link for his site is still there but it's down. Basically people are saying how they could see him turning blue etc. He posted himself on that thread before doing it.
He even said ''I'll wait more people to start watching before doing it.''
To be honest, I don't know how to feel about this. A person died but I have a hard time feeling sad about it because it was his own choice and he seemed fully aware. (He made a post how his life otherwise is going good, grades good, good income, everything fine and dandy except for his social life that seemed to have been affected by his disease.)
Oh well...
Edit: Typo
Asberger isn't a disease, it's a disorder.
Of course it's sad he killed himself, but if he doesn't want to live it's his choice. If he had gotten help he probaly wouldn't have killed himself, which makes me wonder if his family really was supportive of him or not.
On October 12 2010 13:09 lvatural wrote: I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die.
I have asperger's and I'm not mentally disabled, IQ of like 130 actually. Also, you can work on the problems if you put some effort into it, it's pretty difficult at start but it gets better from my experience. You just don't have the "social skills" as a common sense like others and need to copy others to begin with but it'll be okay after you practice it for a while, you don't HAVE to just succumb to it.
That being said this is quite sad and must have been horrible to witness. Don't really get people who commit suicide.
I'm also autistic, but like you said theres workarounds for almost everything. I guess the guy who suicided just wanted to be around people but couldn't which pushed him over the edge. I personally can't be around people but don't give a fuck about it, i think playing video games and interacting with people online is much more fun.
To the author of the OP, and anyone else who has watched this, I hope you're doing OK, but don't beat yourself up over it. There's large events in history that change the way we will perceive the world, even things that happen before we were born; and, there's small, tragic events that not everyone is directly a part of that help shape us differently than everyone else. Posts like this always bring up arguments about suicide, but the real point here is how it happened and how to help people who've seen this. Don't get caught up in the opinions that aren't related to your experience, particularly from people who don't even know you.
My main point is, you're still alive, decide what you want to take from having seen this. You don't have to make a sunny day out of it, but try to take something from this situation. Don't let this be another meaningless death. Oh, and go have some ice cream, or hot chocolate.
On October 12 2010 08:00 NonFactor wrote: Just read some pages on that thread, the link for his site is still there but it's down. Basically people are saying how they could see him turning blue etc. He posted himself on that thread before doing it.
He even said ''I'll wait more people to start watching before doing it.''
To be honest, I don't know how to feel about this. A person died but I have a hard time feeling sad about it because it was his own choice and he seemed fully aware. (He made a post how his life otherwise is going good, grades good, good income, everything fine and dandy except for his social life that seemed to have been affected by his disease.)
Oh well...
Edit: Typo
Asberger isn't a disease, it's a disorder.
Of course it's sad he killed himself, but if he doesn't want to live it's his choice. If he had gotten help he probaly wouldn't have killed himself, which makes me wonder if his family really was supportive of him or not.
On October 12 2010 13:09 lvatural wrote: I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die.
I have asperger's and I'm not mentally disabled, IQ of like 130 actually. Also, you can work on the problems if you put some effort into it, it's pretty difficult at start but it gets better from my experience. You just don't have the "social skills" as a common sense like others and need to copy others to begin with but it'll be okay after you practice it for a while, you don't HAVE to just succumb to it.
That being said this is quite sad and must have been horrible to witness. Don't really get people who commit suicide.
I'm also autistic, but like you said theres workarounds for almost everything. I guess the guy who suicided just wanted to be around people but couldn't which pushed him over the edge. I personally can't be around people but don't give a fuck about it, i think playing video games and interacting with people online is much more fun.
I'm autistic as well as in was severely socially impaired when I was younger, It was even decided at one point that I would need an aid If I would make into society once I got older, but the aid was never needed.
Today I'm perfectly fine, I have friends and interests and I'm just about to finish my 1 year masters in System Science. If you are bad at something you need to train on it. to be social is a skillet, nothing else and it can be improved, you just need to be consistent. I feel for the guy who killed himself but I don't think the autism had anything to with it.
Depression and isolation is one of the most common causes of suicide amongst "normal" people so that it's also the most common cause amongst autistic people doesn't really mean anything.
It is beyond my understanding how can someone watch another person die for over 15 minutes... The fact that someone is posting his suicide vid doesn't mean you have to watch it.
On October 12 2010 17:42 TallMax wrote: To the author of the OP, and anyone else who has watched this, I hope you're doing OK, but don't beat yourself up over it. There's large events in history that change the way we will perceive the world, even things that happen before we were born; and, there's small, tragic events that not everyone is directly a part of that help shape us differently than everyone else. Posts like this always bring up arguments about suicide, but the real point here is how it happened and how to help people who've seen this. Don't get caught up in the opinions that aren't related to your experience, particularly from people who don't even know you.
My main point is, you're still alive, decide what you want to take from having seen this. You don't have to make a sunny day out of it, but try to take something from this situation. Don't let this be another meaningless death. Oh, and go have some ice cream, or hot chocolate.
I hate my life, I've become so desensitized that watching this didn't affect me at all.
I should be feeling sick or at the very least sorry for this guy and his family/friends, but I don't fucking care at all and that scares me.
You don't one day just wake up and decide to kill yourself.
Don't call suicidal people weak. Nor should you call them selfish or overly dramatic. You can't possibly fathom what they are going through or their thought process. Something you don't realize is how fucking torn you must be to HONESTLY contemplate ending everything you've ever known, perceived, and done. It isn't something someone can comprehend without going through it themselves, and even then every situation is specific and different. The last thing you want to do with a suicidal person is isolate and define them. Always be willing to give people support and learn to treat others kindly, but let the psychologists/psychiatrists/hotlines do their jobs because they've been trained to do what people online can't.
This topic isn't about suicide in general, but I think the people posting here can maybe mature a little and learn that it is worth reaching out and helping people. Even if it means that for every 1,000 trolls you respond to, you get 1 legitimate person who truly needs help. Sure, everyone goes through shit in their life. You can't make comparisons. People deal with situations differently.
This.
So many people want to generalize and assume every person is the same. They just dont understand because they have never been there. So instead of trying to put themselves in someone elses shoes. They take the easy route and over simplify everything by making quick judgements. Most people, especially close family are more likely to shrug it off in denial or become upset with you for not being normal than sympathetic and understanding if you told them you are severely depressed. That is where the feeling of "being trapped" comes from. If you tell people you are depressed and are thinking of suicide then you are further alienating yourself from everyone else. You will also most likely be commited into a mental hospital. Which is like shining a gigantic spotlight on your problems for everyone to see. That is why you always hear "They seemed fine to me" and things like that. Because a lot of them try to appear as normal as they can. It also helps prevent being made fun of and bullied.
A lot of them have had some treatment and they know that there is no magical cure. Ive worked in mental health and I wish that curing depression was as successful as a cold or something but its just not. A majority of them have struggled with it for many years and will continue to do so for the rest of their lives. The best medicine for someone that is depressed is people who will listen and try to understand them. No one wants to be around a person that has any kind of mental illness though. Its very sad.
On October 12 2010 18:03 Manit0u wrote: It is beyond my understanding how can someone watch another person die for over 15 minutes... The fact that someone is posting his suicide vid doesn't mean you have to watch it.
Indeed, i have purposely steered clear of any pictures/videos. I mean, i suppose they wasn't really anything you COULD do, but how can you just watch someone die?
I just... it is sad to see people die simply because it is common place to have people dick around on the internet. Stupid trolls.
This might be slightly off-topic, but it's on the general topic and this information might be useful for some people.
There's been comments in this thread about how "he must have wanted to die badly" because of the way he did it (hanging with feet on the ground) and how "painful" it must be and that the asphyxiation would be unpleasant.
This is not the case. When you lean forward with something tied around your neck, it cuts of the circulation to your brain very quickly, we're talking 15-30 seconds and you will have blacked out. After that there is no pain and no turning back. Since the guy took painkillers before doing it, he probably felt nothing, and the unconsciousness comes very quickly and unexpectedly.
Just wanted to clear up those misconceptions.
EDIT - and when I say this info might be useful I mean for safety not for suicide tips :S
This is just sick. I'm sorry you had to witness that...
And to the poster above, imagine that thread being posted on Fragbite instead...
But on the other hand, maybe it would make those 15-year olds shut up for a while.
On October 12 2010 13:30 throttled wrote:
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
You don't have anyone close to you who comitted suicide, right? If I could, I would punch you hard in the face.
I'm not saying you should care about every random guy who dies. I don't do that either. But it is a tragedy for people who were close with the person who comitted suicide...at least show some respect...
On October 12 2010 18:03 Manit0u wrote: It is beyond my understanding how can someone watch another person die for over 15 minutes... The fact that someone is posting his suicide vid doesn't mean you have to watch it.
Indeed, i have purposely steered clear of any pictures/videos. I mean, i suppose they wasn't really anything you COULD do, but how can you just watch someone die?
I just... it is sad to see people die simply because it is common place to have people dick around on the internet. Stupid trolls.
Most people are the opposite. A lot of car accidents occur when there is already an accident and everyone is looking for dead bodies instead of watching the road.
On October 12 2010 18:53 bellyfrog wrote: This might be slightly off-topic, but it's on the general topic and this information might be useful for some people.
There's been comments in this thread about how "he must have wanted to die badly" because of the way he did it (hanging with feet on the ground) and how "painful" it must be and that the asphyxiation would be unpleasant.
This is not the case. When you lean forward with something tied around your neck, it cuts of the circulation to your brain very quickly, we're talking 15-30 seconds and you will have blacked out. After that there is no pain and no turning back. Since the guy took painkillers before doing it, he probably felt nothing, and the unconsciousness comes very quickly and unexpectedly.
Just wanted to clear up those misconceptions.
EDIT - and when I say this info might be useful I mean for safety not for suicide tips :S
It's good you said that, i felt really bad for the guy because it looked like a horrible death, i mean if he wanted to suicide, at least find a fast and painless way to do it. Still feeling bad, his life was good overall, i don't get the reasoning that brought him to that conclusion. The video was less disturbing than i thought, i'm more worried about the fact that he suicided than about a stupid video showing it. It looked like 4chan material and of course you can find it there or at least a link to it if you're curious. Some films have more disturbing scenes, i guess we're used to it and this is nothing special.
Instigating someone to suicide is a serious offense in most states and i assume it's the same in Sweden, and it can get you to jail, the idiots who encouraged him should be prosecuted.
On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote: Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now. Poor soul. His soul will never RIP...
He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief.
The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case.
OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP.
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
You don't have anyone close to you who comitted suicide, right? If I could, I would punch you hard in the face.
I'm not saying you should care about every random guy who dies. I don't do that either. But it is a tragedy for people who were close with the person who comitted suicide...at least show some respect...
I actually did. I mean not anything like family, but a friend. Even though I was sad at the time, I got over it eventually. It was a shitty situation for him and I don't presume to disagree with his decision because I'm not that god damn selfish.
But either way, my personal ethics are irrelevant. I already said in the thread it's a different situation if you're family or a friend. But you're not. It's more disrespectful to pretend like you care when you know nothing about the situation then just to let it pass.
On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote: Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now. Poor soul. His soul will never RIP...
He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief.
The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case.
OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP.
If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame....You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge... Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.
For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up"
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
You don't have anyone close to you who comitted suicide, right? If I could, I would punch you hard in the face.
I'm not saying you should care about every random guy who dies. I don't do that either. But it is a tragedy for people who were close with the person who comitted suicide...at least show some respect...
It's sad to witness somebody's death, but I really can't justifiy any reason to commit suicide.
Damn, people need to study some psychology, suicide happens because the person is in a fucked up state of mind, some people cant cross that line but some can.
What leads to suicide is increasing social alienation, to the point where the person has so little identifying herself with humanity she doesnt feel a part of it, she pains in coexisting with it, she decides to quit it, like someone is quitting their job.
It might be hard to understand, but its all a question of mental states, you could get someone on the brink of suiciding, talking him out of it, successfully (will happen to a % of ppl) get over it, and make fun of it later.
An unatended ill mind is like a loose car, if it finds itself into a ramp, its going down and fast.
to kill yourself like this young man did is illogical. It makes no sense. I cant figure out why someone would do that. yea life sucks, it sucks for everbody, even if he lost everything he loved and their was no way of getting them back. Next logical move is to find new things he loves. He is weak? maybe. He was sick? maybe. One thing for sure he was not smart in his actions. Suicide is wrong. sucide is bad. maybe. But Suicide will never be smart.
On October 12 2010 20:39 alecfisher wrote: to kill yourself like this young man did is illogical. It makes no sense. I cant figure out why someone would do that. yea life sucks, it sucks for everbody, even if he lost everything he loved and their was no way of getting them back. Next logical move is to find new things he loves. He is weak? maybe. He was sick? maybe. One thing for sure he was not smart in his actions. Suicide is wrong. sucide is bad. maybe. But Suicide will never be smart.
On October 12 2010 19:22 Zexion wrote: This is just sick. I'm sorry you had to witness that...
And to the poster above, imagine that thread being posted on Fragbite instead...
But on the other hand, maybe it would make those 15-year olds shut up for a while.
On October 12 2010 13:30 throttled wrote:
I agree with the bold statement. Murder is a tragedy. Rape is a tragedy. Suicide is not.
You don't have anyone close to you who comitted suicide, right? If I could, I would punch you hard in the face.
I'm not saying you should care about every random guy who dies. I don't do that either. But it is a tragedy for people who were close with the person who comitted suicide...at least show some respect...
It's sad to witness somebody's death, but I really can't justifiy any reason to commit suicide.
Really?
What you gotta understand is that when a person is very close to commiting suicide, or in the process of commiting suicide, one does not anymore think of the sadness and grief it will bring to his nearest and dearest. You have fallen too far, and the close and familiar, constant pain is overwhelming, and you're becoming one with it.
I see where you're coming from, ofcourse. But at the same time you can't really look at it from that perspective. A person who commits suicide is mentally ill.
That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
On October 12 2010 20:39 alecfisher wrote: to kill yourself like this young man did is illogical. It makes no sense. I cant figure out why someone would do that. yea life sucks, it sucks for everbody, even if he lost everything he loved and their was no way of getting them back. Next logical move is to find new things he loves. He is weak? maybe. He was sick? maybe. One thing for sure he was not smart in his actions. Suicide is wrong. sucide is bad. maybe. But Suicide will never be smart.
poeple who feel bad for this young man. You all are kind poeple who all have good loving relationships.
Wow, that's really small of you to say.
Ofcourse you have these thoughts yourself. I guess you aren't depressed, and have a normal life. So you can't even try to imagine how a suicidal person feels. Because you haven't experienced that sort of pain and mental state.
On October 12 2010 20:39 alecfisher wrote: to kill yourself like this young man did is illogical. It makes no sense. I cant figure out why someone would do that. yea life sucks, it sucks for everbody, even if he lost everything he loved and their was no way of getting them back. Next logical move is to find new things he loves. He is weak? maybe. He was sick? maybe. One thing for sure he was not smart in his actions. Suicide is wrong. sucide is bad. maybe. But Suicide will never be smart.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
On October 12 2010 20:39 alecfisher wrote: to kill yourself like this young man did is illogical. It makes no sense. I cant figure out why someone would do that. yea life sucks, it sucks for everbody, even if he lost everything he loved and their was no way of getting them back. Next logical move is to find new things he loves. He is weak? maybe. He was sick? maybe. One thing for sure he was not smart in his actions. Suicide is wrong. sucide is bad. maybe. But Suicide will never be smart.
poeple who feel bad for this young man. You all are kind poeple who all have good loving relationships.
I don't blame you for thinking like that, but I don't think most people can really judge people that end their own lives because the majority of people are never in such a hopeless state of mind that they would rather kill themselves than continue to live.
I don't claim to know how he felt in any way, but I'm certainly in no place to judge the guy.
On October 12 2010 20:39 alecfisher wrote: to kill yourself like this young man did is illogical. It makes no sense. I cant figure out why someone would do that. yea life sucks, it sucks for everbody, even if he lost everything he loved and their was no way of getting them back. Next logical move is to find new things he loves. He is weak? maybe. He was sick? maybe. One thing for sure he was not smart in his actions. Suicide is wrong. sucide is bad. maybe. But Suicide will never be smart.
poeple who feel bad for this young man. You all are kind poeple who all have good loving relationships.
From my POV, and im no expert just a psychology student.
Suicide = Sickness + Weakness
edit: Natural Weakness from the persons mind, not weakness caused by whatever metal illness he had.
What is "natural weakness"? Genetic disorders, birth defects, or what?
I dont know the terms in english since i studied it in portuguese, but lemme try to explain
when i was studying the development of childrens brains, they told us that every person has a inherent mental flexibility, that allows the mind to sustain so much traumatic change without becoming sick/traumatized/whatever.
they say that a children with very low tolerance to outside traumas (and read traumas in a broad way) can still thrive and succeed with good enviromental conditions, but will most certainly fall apart in bad enviroments, while people with high tolerance will usually thrive whenever you put them.
they will be the raped girls who do seminars on how to recover from it, drug addicts that help others leave drugs, and so on.
This is related to kids tho, its assumed adults have a higher degree of capability to overcome traumas, problem is sometimes the trauma they have lived is their whole story, its all they are, getting over it, would be killing the image they know of themselves.
On October 12 2010 20:54 Ferrose wrote: I think it's sad that that site has so many attention-whoring trolls that no one actually believed the guy who was serious.
Flashback is like 4Chan but worse. 4Chan is mostly trolling douchebags who pretend to be fucked up and so on. Flashback houses some of Swedens most dangerous people. For instance every Neo Nazi in Sweden has an active account there and the murderer of Björn Söderberg (A swedish anarchist who got murdered by nazis for getting a nazi sacked for wearing T-shirts with racist messages at work) hangs there and stalks people he disagrees with.
Not saying that there arent some good forums there but the really really really bad ones are just too bad.
Millions of people spend their lives in front of their computer for so long, obsessing over webforums, sites, identity and games. That they all become so disconnected from reality, their minds become consumed by it. It border lines with mental illness really, an addiction called the internet syndrome.
Reading a few pages of that thread on Flashback just makes me disgusted, people become insensitive careless douchebags on the internet, Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Asshole!
On October 12 2010 20:54 Ferrose wrote: I think it's sad that that site has so many attention-whoring trolls that no one actually believed the guy who was serious.
Flashback is like 4Chan but worse. 4Chan is mostly trolling douchebags who pretend to be fucked up and so on. Flashback houses some of Swedens most dangerous people. For instance every Neo Nazi in Sweden has an active account there and the murderer of Björn Söderberg (A swedish anarchist who got murdered by nazis for getting a nazi sacked for wearing T-shirts with racist messages at work) hangs there and stalks people he disagrees with.
Not saying that there arent some good forums there but the really really really bad ones are just too bad.
How does Sweden not find an excuse to shut those servers down? I mean, I'm all for the freedom of the internet, but much like a "free" country, if you start doing shit like housing the worst of the worst and giving them a place to organize and find possible victims(you really think crazy dude stalking people is always gonna end well??) is fucking foolish.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
In what way are the cowards, exactly?
Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them.
Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well.
Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with.
You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else.
Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind.
Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
I also agree that suicide is selfish, because really the only person it hurts are the people around you.. but anyways, I saw some of the pictures by accident and it sucks that so many people had to witness it that didn't want to, and that a life was wasted away because of the whole cry wolf factor.
99% of the time suicide is cowardly and pathetic, but 1% of the time it is a perfectly reasonable and rational act.
For a person to have a "successful" life, yet still commit suicide is nothing more than an indicator of how important it is to be polite and friendly to strangers. You don't know what kind of life they live, nor the burdens they suffer. A person may be weird or have odd habits but that doesn't mean they should be discriminated against.
It's selfish but people do selfish things all the time. You can't find someone who hasn't done a selfish thing. With selfishness being so common, and arguably essential, it's a pretty weak label when you're trying to judge something. It's especially weak when you cannot measure the pain from the two options. If the man who wants to kill himself is suffering more than anyone else will suffer as a result of him killing himself, then it's not selfish for him to kill himself from a utilitarian perspective. It's selfish for everyone else to stop him.
It's also a ridiculous thing to say that suicide is a way of avoiding problems and not dealing with them. It absolutely deals with any problem you have. It's a perfect solution. But you hear otherwise as part of the propaganda of people who are against suicide. They never justify the statement and they can't.
On October 13 2010 00:10 Liquid`Tyler wrote: It's selfish but people do selfish things all the time. You can't find someone who hasn't done a selfish thing. With selfishness being so common, and arguably essential, it's a pretty weak label when you're trying to judge something. It's especially weak when you cannot measure the pain from the two options. If the man who wants to kill himself is suffering more than anyone else will suffer as a result of him killing himself, then it's not selfish for him to kill himself from a utilitarian perspective. It's selfish for everyone else to stop him.
It's also a ridiculous thing to say that suicide is a way of avoiding problems and not dealing with them. It absolutely deals with any problem you have. It's a perfect solution. But you hear otherwise as part of the propaganda of people who are against suicide. They never justify the statement and they can't.
Great, lets all go and suicide because we have problems, I'm first because I'm fat and people laugh behind my back. (I'm not actually fat.) But I don't really mind suiciding because in the end every one can do whatever they want with their lives and you can't really stop some one from suiciding in the long run unless you put them in some asylum or something like that.
On October 12 2010 20:54 Ferrose wrote: I think it's sad that that site has so many attention-whoring trolls that no one actually believed the guy who was serious.
Flashback is like 4Chan but worse. 4Chan is mostly trolling douchebags who pretend to be fucked up and so on. Flashback houses some of Swedens most dangerous people. For instance every Neo Nazi in Sweden has an active account there and the murderer of Björn Söderberg (A swedish anarchist who got murdered by nazis for getting a nazi sacked for wearing T-shirts with racist messages at work) hangs there and stalks people he disagrees with.
Not saying that there arent some good forums there but the really really really bad ones are just too bad.
How does Sweden not find an excuse to shut those servers down? I mean, I'm all for the freedom of the internet, but much like a "free" country, if you start doing shit like housing the worst of the worst and giving them a place to organize and find possible victims(you really think crazy dude stalking people is always gonna end well??) is fucking foolish.
They have, multiple times. The site isn't hosted from Sweden anymore, I think the server is in Britain somewhere if I recall correctly. Used to visit it frequently before, but I eventually reached the same conclusion as Sl4ktarN. 90% underage self proclaimed alternative people who copypaste boring memes and racist crap in attempts of boosting their postcounts and becoming oldbies. 9% are actually sensible people who don't venture outside the humour forums, and the remaining 1% are the real fuckups you really should avoid.
Maybe wasn't mentioned that there are plenty of pedophiles there as well. Of course not openly sharing shit on the forums, but still. I don't really go beyond humour, technical support and those areas anymore.
On October 13 2010 00:10 Liquid`Tyler wrote: It's selfish but people do selfish things all the time. You can't find someone who hasn't done a selfish thing. With selfishness being so common, and arguably essential, it's a pretty weak label when you're trying to judge something. It's especially weak when you cannot measure the pain from the two options. If the man who wants to kill himself is suffering more than anyone else will suffer as a result of him killing himself, then it's not selfish for him to kill himself from a utilitarian perspective. It's selfish for everyone else to stop him.
It's also a ridiculous thing to say that suicide is a way of avoiding problems and not dealing with them. It absolutely deals with any problem you have. It's a perfect solution. But you hear otherwise as part of the propaganda of people who are against suicide. They never justify the statement and they can't.
I pretty much agree with everything you said here, but still I can't help to feel sad about the guy and his relatives. Must be some kind of animalish basic instict. It's pretty much clear the this person had made up his mind, but wouldn't you just feel the urge to try and save him? Even if his decision is fair and square, the other alternative is even sweeter if he should have changed his mind.
Suicide is selfish because it doesn't take into account other people's feelings. Unlike my judgment of suicidal people, which takes into full account their feelings.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
In what way are the cowards, exactly?
Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them.
Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well.
Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with.
You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else.
Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind.
Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
Well, in this man's case he had Asberger's syndrome, so that may have affected his ability to deal with the problems he was facing. People with Asbergers have trouble interacting with people and communicating their thoughts. Maybe he was trying to get help, but the people around him, not fully understanding of his condition, got fed up with him or just assumed he was an idiot. We don't know his whole story.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
In what way are the cowards, exactly?
Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them.
Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well.
Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with.
You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else.
Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind.
Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
Its absolutely bullshit.
I am so tired of hearing people saying "its the cowards way out" You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever. You may think you understand, but you cant really know what its like unless you have been through it yourself. Waking up and seeing absolutely no reason to get up, not for a single second feeling any sort of satisfaction, hating yourself for feeling like this when you rationally know there is no reason to be feeling the way you do, and being completely powerless to change it. And you are completely powerless, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will either fix it self, or it won't and your actions really have little to no bearing on what that outcome is.
Did you have the balls to end it? No matter how bad it gets people are still terrified of death. You are ending all possibilities, you are making a giant commitment. You are choosing to betray all the people you know, you know it will cause them pain and suffering. You know that you will never get to go bungee jumping, or travel the world or be able to do what ever you aspire to do. If you are religious you even know you are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, but what the heck, it can't be worse then what you are going through already. And despite this they still choose to take their own life.
A coward is a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things. Suicide is obviously a unpleasant thing, to commit the act means they are enduring.
To call them a coward means you don't respect the position they are in, and if you don't respect it then you clearly have never been in that situation.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
In what way are the cowards, exactly?
Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them.
Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well.
Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with.
You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else.
Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind.
Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
Well, in this man's case he had Asberger's syndrome, so that may have affected his ability to deal with the problems he was facing. People with Asbergers have trouble interacting with people and communicating their thoughts. Maybe he was trying to get help, but the people around him, not fully understanding of his condition, got fed up with him or just assumed he was an idiot. We don't know his whole story.
I agree, and Asberger's is horribly under recognized, despite the ridiculous psychological problems that can develop from the inability to communicate.(I have an extremely minor form, I don't so much have trouble, as it can cause severe anxiety because I can easily be overwhelmed by social situations where I am uncomfortable(damn, that's as dumb as the "im 1100 tos so i now wut im takin abot"))
The reason I didn't address it was because I was just answering the gentlemens question about why it's cowardly. I actually started typing caveats like some people truly need help and sometimes fall through the cracks, but I realize I was writing a wall of text.
It sucks that he felt suicide was the best choice. Your life is your own, it's your own to take in my opinion. You have to weigh a lot of options, the pain of those close to you, but in the end it is one possible choice, and one possible solution. As for people saying it's wrong, and selfish, you don't even know the circumstances surrounding this guys suicide, so to make blanket statements about all suicides is stupid.
On October 12 2010 20:54 Ferrose wrote: I think it's sad that that site has so many attention-whoring trolls that no one actually believed the guy who was serious.
Flashback is like 4Chan but worse. 4Chan is mostly trolling douchebags who pretend to be fucked up and so on. Flashback houses some of Swedens most dangerous people. For instance every Neo Nazi in Sweden has an active account there and the murderer of Björn Söderberg (A swedish anarchist who got murdered by nazis for getting a nazi sacked for wearing T-shirts with racist messages at work) hangs there and stalks people he disagrees with.
Not saying that there arent some good forums there but the really really really bad ones are just too bad.
How does Sweden not find an excuse to shut those servers down? I mean, I'm all for the freedom of the internet, but much like a "free" country, if you start doing shit like housing the worst of the worst and giving them a place to organize and find possible victims(you really think crazy dude stalking people is always gonna end well??) is fucking foolish.
They have, multiple times. The site isn't hosted from Sweden anymore, I think the server is in Britain somewhere if I recall correctly. Used to visit it frequently before, but I eventually reached the same conclusion as Sl4ktarN. 90% underage self proclaimed alternative people who copypaste boring memes and racist crap in attempts of boosting their postcounts and becoming oldbies. 9% are actually sensible people who don't venture outside the humour forums, and the remaining 1% are the real fuckups you really should avoid.
Maybe wasn't mentioned that there are plenty of pedophiles there as well. Of course not openly sharing shit on the forums, but still. I don't really go beyond humour, technical support and those areas anymore.
Yep, i've also heard that the servers are somewhere in Britan.
But you guys really makes it sound like FB is a REALLY crappy place, like pepole singing nazi sound in threads and posts pictures on naked children. It's really not THAT bad, some examplels of the "hottest threads":
Snack om självmordet som visades live inför FB? (Mondo, gore och bizarre) Talk about the suicide that was shown in front of FB?
SD ska debattera budgeten! (Politik - Inrikes) Swedish Democrats detating the budget!
Hotad av min bror. (Barn och familj) Threathend by my brother
Äta 180cm macka på subway - Hjälp! (Restauranger och matställen) Eating 180 cm sandwich on subway - Help!
Ni invandrare som hatar "svennar".. (Integration och invandring) You immigrants who hates "sweeds..."
(Spolier might be against the forum rules here, some mod can remove it if they don't want pepole to write such words in the forum) + Show Spoiler +
Pojkvän kommer för fort..nåt nytt mirakeltips...någon!?! (Erotik och sexualitet) Boyfriend comming fast... little help?!
Tänker ni killar på tjejens röv när ni doggar? (Erotik och sexualitet) Are you guys turning on on the wonams ass when you're doing doggy style? (This topic might not seem so good to some pepole, but hey, it's gotta be discussed somewhere!)
It really isn't that bad discussions going on there.
Tha amount of seriois pepole on FB really is more than 10%.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
In what way are the cowards, exactly?
Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them.
Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well.
Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with.
You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else.
Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind.
Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever.
That sir, is untrue. I speak from a position of experience. I DO respect the position they are in, but not the choice they make(those who chose suicide). I have been there. I do understand the utterly hollow and alone feeling. And I understand what true hopelessness is.
I have been to the edge and back, and just because I felt hopeless, didn't mean life was hopeless. It just meant I didn't have hope for anything better. I'm glad I had people around me, because if I hadn't, someone else would be making the argument that suicide is cowardly right now, not me.
Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm trying to say I'm better than those who succumbed, not in any way, shape, or form.
Suicide can be manly and honorable. In ancient times it was a preferred method, because the alternative is to be captured by the enemy and tortured to death. Is it cowardly to kill oneself then?
And look at samurai. That is not cowardly suicide.
For anyone who speaks Swedish or is tech savvy enough to use google translate here is the story of his mother (she gave her approval to have it published on the internet)
On October 13 2010 00:47 Ferrose wrote: Suicide can be manly and honorable. In ancient times it was a preferred method, because the alternative is to be captured by the enemy and tortured to death. Is it cowardly to kill oneself then?
And look at samurai. That is not cowardly suicide.
We are not discussing a group of people who adhered meticulously to their code of values and kill themselves in response to shame or defeat, we are discussing people who escape their troubles by killing themselves.
You can't tell me the samurai would even listen for 1 minute of you comparing their honorable suicides with suicide for the purpose of escaping life. You'd be closer if samurais killed themselves before any battle they thought they would lose. Does that sound samurai-ey to you?
On October 13 2010 00:47 Ferrose wrote: Suicide can be manly and honorable. In ancient times it was a preferred method, because the alternative is to be captured by the enemy and tortured to death. Is it cowardly to kill oneself then?
And look at samurai. That is not cowardly suicide.
We are not discussing a group of people who adhered meticulously to their code of values and kill themselves in response to shame or defeat, we are discussing people who escape their troubles by killing themselves.
You can't tell me the samurai would even listen for 1 minute of you comparing their honorable suicides with suicide for the purpose of escaping life. You'd be closer if samurais killed themselves before any battle they thought they would lose. Does that sound samurai-ey to you?
You said, "Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind."
Read this on a news site this morning. Kind of makes me feel sad that a person can feel so lonely and socially isolated, that they decide to take their own life.
On October 12 2010 20:48 DorF wrote: That is sad, and I really dislike people who does theese kinda things It just feels like ...they're cowards and it makes me more angry than sad seeing theese things.
In what way are the cowards, exactly?
Because they can't handle the pain like others. Because they pick the easy way out. Suicide is the most final and prime example of avoiding problems rather than dealing with them.
Not only is it cowardly, it's selfish as well.
Because they think of only of themselves and their own pain, ignoring the emotional and psychological pain and problems you are causing your parents, family, friends, random people who see you on the internet, etc; as well as ignoring the financial burden you are leaving them with.
You are basically saying you don't give a fuck about how anyone else ends up, feels, is affected, because you are so much more important than anyone else that your pain needs to end, fuck everyone else.
Suicide is cowardly and selfish. It's the last choice of someone with a weak mind.
Please understand, as someone who has been on the brink, I feel for someone who feels the need to end their own life, but someone who is not a coward will man up to their problems, no matter the source, and deal with them. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.
Its absolutely bullshit.
I am so tired of hearing people saying "its the cowards way out" You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever. You may think you understand, but you cant really know what its like unless you have been through it yourself. Waking up and seeing absolutely no reason to get up, not for a single second feeling any sort of satisfaction, hating yourself for feeling like this when you rationally know there is no reason to be feeling the way you do, and being completely powerless to change it. And you are completely powerless, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will either fix it self, or it won't and your actions really have little to no bearing on what that outcome is.
Did you have the balls to end it? No matter how bad it gets people are still terrified of death. You are ending all possibilities, you are making a giant commitment. You are choosing to betray all the people you know, you know it will cause them pain and suffering. You know that you will never get to go bungee jumping, or travel the world or be able to do what ever you aspire to do. If you are religious you even know you are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, but what the heck, it can't be worse then what you are going through already. And despite this they still choose to take their own life.
A coward is a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things. Suicide is obviously a unpleasant thing, to commit the act means they are enduring.
To call them a coward means you don't respect the position they are in, and if you don't respect it then you clearly have never been in that situation.
Selfish I can agree with, but never cowardly.
I agree. Suicide does not make you a coward. My uncle went his whole life battling schizophrenia, going on all sorts of drugs that completely eliminated all the humanity he had. He got fired from 5 jobs consecutively because they "couldn't accommodate his disability". He was forced to live with my grandmother for 25 years, going in and out of shock therapy, drugs that made him gain weight, lose consciousness, and get uncontrollably ill.
The note he left had nothing about being scared, nothing about being afraid of living. He just could not handle the physical and mental strain his condition put on him. The vast majority of his suicide note was apologies, and he wrote that his biggest regret was hurting us in the pursuit of his own relief.
Selfish yes, but you can't call someone a coward when you haven't experienced a fraction of the misery they've endured.
What this guy did was incredibly brave; may he rest in peace.
We are entering into an age where the social mind is incredibly important and people don't value the skills of someone like this young man as much as they used to.
England has a very high suicide rate too and it usually is the brightest who are at risk. This is the reality of the super-social society we live in.
I think cases like this will become a lot more usual. It's really shocking that this wasn't a common occurrence up until now, with all the attention you can get via online social networks, forums and a webcam. Suddenly people that weren't going to suicide because there was a fear of simply being forgotten without making an impact are willing to die in front of thousands because they know they will be mourned and spoken of by their online "friends" and various news outlets.
NukeTheBunnys, your post isn't justified. I know what a depression is, I know what a serious anxiety disorder and panic attacks are. I only thought of dieing when I wasn't sure if I was going to live. No matter how bad it was I have always striven to become healthy again. If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
There are always cases where people kill themselves because they can't endure the physical pain or their health condition any longer, it is a completely different kind of suicide, similar to voluntary euthanasia.
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
I am saddened, but not horribly surprised by this whole ordeal. Flashback is such a fantastic forum because it harbors all kind of incredible shit, but on a community pushing freedom-of-speech to the limit something like this was bound to happen sooner or later :/
Its always sad when sh*t like this happens, thank god he took alot of painkillers cus on the video, it looked like it hurt. My heart goes out for family and friends of his.
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
If he didn't care what people thought he would have done it some place quiet, not like someone made him log onto a website, set up the chair and the camera and chat people up dragging their attention.
I am not hinting at anything like you've suggested, sometimes things are as simple as they appear. If you are "weak" you don't deserve to die just because of that, you are just "weak". NukeTheBunnys suggested he was strong and motivated doing this, I said he wasn't. He couldn't find his place in this society and he lacked the determination to do it.
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
If he didn't care what people thought he would have done it some place quiet, not like someone made him log onto a website, set up the chair and the camera and chat people up dragging their attention.
I am not hinting at anything like you've suggested, sometimes things are as simple as they appear. If you are "weak" you don't deserve to die just because of that, you are just "weak". NukeTheBunnys suggested he was strong and motivated doing this, I said he wasn't. He couldn't find his place in this society and he lacked the determination to do it.
Do you think that the monks who immolated themselves to stop war were weak?
Maybe this man wanted his death to send a message. It is certainly clear to me.
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
If he didn't care what people thought he would have done it some place quiet, not like someone made him log onto a website, set up the chair and the camera and chat people up dragging their attention.
I am not hinting at anything like you've suggested, sometimes things are as simple as they appear. If you are "weak" you don't deserve to die just because of that, you are just "weak". NukeTheBunnys suggested he was strong and motivated doing this, I said he wasn't. He couldn't find his place in this society and he lacked the determination to do it.
Do you think that the monks who immolated themselves to stop war were weak?
Maybe this man wanted his death to send a message. It is certainly clear to me.
I wasn't trying to guess at his motives, simply arguing about him not wanting attention/people that commit suicide majorly being strong. Of course there's a chance he wanted to convey some kind of a message, was it worth it though? It would be a different discussion all together.
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
Aspergers does not mean that he has absolutely no social concept understanding, just that they were severely lacking. It is also a term that is being done away with slowly in favor of simply pointing out that the person is autistic and grading them on a scale of functionality.
I have to say that I have a somewhat different approach to depression and suicide than I find most people have but on the note of the actual act I have to agree that it is indeed a selfish act. That does no mean that it is wrong. It is just the fact of the matter that if you are not dieing to save someone else (which would be sacrifice, not suicide) then you are doing it completely for yourself. Some people are stronger in different areas than others, some people have good family, and some people have good friends to keep them from these thoughts. Some people have all of those and are still struck with their own hardship. You can have an incredibly good life and still suffer from depression and I don't think that should be belittled. It is all in your mind and how important something is to you at the time. I'm sure if a lot of younger people who had committed suicide had aged 10 years they would not have done the same for the same reasons.
I guess I'm just trying to say that people should relax. Not taking strong opinions from others as a slight against them. We all have our own hardships and someone else having a large problem does no belittle our own.
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: I think cases like this will become a lot more usual. It's really shocking that this wasn't a common occurrence up until now, with all the attention you can get via online social networks, forums and a webcam. Suddenly people that weren't going to suicide because there was a fear of simply being forgotten without making an impact are willing to die in front of thousands because they know they will be mourned and spoken of by their online "friends" and various news outlets.
NukeTheBunnys, your post isn't justified. I know what a depression is, I know what a serious anxiety disorder and panic attacks are. I only thought of dieing when I wasn't sure if I was going to live. No matter how bad it was I have always striven to become healthy again. If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
There are always cases where people kill themselves because they can't endure the physical pain or their health condition any longer, it is a completely different kind of suicide, similar to voluntary euthanasia.
Then obviously you are either lying, or you had a light depression. Seriously man, if you are speaking the truth and actually have experienced a full-blown depression(we are all different though, I know bla bla), I can't even begin to understand how you can say that.
About 3-4 weeks ago I tried to do it.. you know. "Luckily" I have a really close friend who is in the same spot and noticed, intervened etc etc. I am not in general a selfish person. But was it selfish of me, trying? Yes, maybe. Was it weak? I don't think so. For the past seven years I have literary lived for the sake of my family and loved ones. I couldn't take it anymore. At some point one has to find it in himself to be able to live for the sake of living. To live for oneself.
i will never understand people who speak so harshly of suicide. those of you who think you are enlightened on the subject because you've been through so-and-so condition and know how miserable it is - do you really think that you survived because you somehow have just that much more mental fortitude and willpower than others? isn't there certainly a silent mass of thousands upon thousands of people out there to which your problems pale in comparison?
you guys should know best of all how hard it is for the average person to grasp what depression and its friends are like. i think giving your fellow human beings the benefit of the doubt and acknowledging that there may be despair beyond your understanding is the only a natural progression of having gone through a mental illness yourself.
what does it even mean when people say suicide requires a "weak mind"? what a fucking ego trip.
anyone think thinks taking your own life is EASY or and EASY WAY OUT needs to think for more than one second about what they are saying.
I suffer from Bi-Polar Disorder, i go from deepest depression to hyper mode faster than a 6pool kills me. when i was younger I couldn't deal with it, i didn't manage the disorder well and I was in a bad state alot of the time. I tried to take my life on multiple occasions, thankfully I failed via a combination of people turning up at the right time to save me and sheer luck.
I never told anyone what I was going to do, I wasn't doing it for the attention, at the time I just wanted out. I couldn't handle not knowing how i was going to feel about the world from day to day, it was horrible.I won't go in to too many details on what i did to myself, but I have a tattoo that exactly cover up some of the scars (I made a pattern with a cut-throat razor) to remind me what i almost lost.
You have no idea how much resolve and will power it takes to intentionally harm yourself to the point that you will die. I'm not talking about "self harm", thats a completely different mind set, I am talking about knowingly attempting to end your life. Billions of years of evolution have created instincts for self preservation, to override this programming which is HARD CODED in to you takes enormous courage and self control. I challenge anyone to take a cut throat razor and slice a part of your body open...... most people wouldn't be able to do it, because they would be scared of the pain, of those who could do it, most wouldn't cut deep enough to understand how hard it really is to damage your body to the point of dying. what i'm trying to say is, hurting yourself is Stupid (notice the capitol S), but not cowardly.
Having been in a place where i thought the world would be better without me, and now in a place where i would do anything to save my own life has been a massive transition and one that took many friends supporting me to achieve. there was a time when i honestly believed my lfie was worthless, and even then the thought of taking my own life made me feel sick, but i mastered myself and did what at the time i felt was the right thing to do.
I am eternally thankful for those who came to my rescue and for the fact that my body was so used to taking drugs (both medicinal and recreational) that my tolerance saved me on more than one occasion..... it seemed i simply wasn't meant to die at times, even tho i am not religious, it felt like somehow it always went wrong.
Its always a sad day when someone takes their own life, but sometimes, though it may seem selfish to those who do not know true depression, in your mind while you are doing it..... you honestly think no one will miss you, no one will care, and even those who do are better off without you around bringing them down. Many people who commit suicide say in their notes things like "I couldn't bare seeing how miserable i was making you, hopefully now you can be happy" - aimed at thier loved ones - and in their altered state they honestly think they are doing the right thing.
To put into context the sort of person i was when i attempted to take my own life.....
I was 14 (first time, 17 last time), captain of my school soccer, rugby and basketball teams, sponsored for Skateboarding and Snowboarding. In a band (i am now a professional Singer and sound technician), had a gorgeous girlfriend and lots of friends.
I was by no means the "usual" suicide case. However, I have a disorder that completely messes with my head.
You may ask what changed things for me, and the answer is simple. I began to talk to people about my disorder, and about my feelings. I let my friends in and they helped an immense amount, I was lucky I had friends. Alot of people who take their lives don't have anyone to lean on, and I really needed people to lean on.... until I was 22 and my son was born. From that day on, the thought of taking my own life has never once entered my head.
I am one of the lucky ones, able to tell the world about my experiences, I had friends who aren't here anymore because they succeeded in taking their lives, I miss them very much and wish they had been lucky like me and somehow managed to find their way back from the darkness. I take great offense to people sullying their memory by saying they took the easy way out..... they are gone, never to return, never to love, never to live all because of a plethora of reasons. Whether they were born different, or mistreated by parents/piers or had a mental disorder that went unnoticed or a host of other causes.
No one is born wanting to kill themselves, it is a tragedy and we should do everything we can to find out why people do it, and then to attempt to remove those things from the world.
On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote: Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now. Poor soul. His soul will never RIP...
He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief.
The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case.
OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP.
If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame....You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge... Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.
For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up"
I'm sorry if I made it sound like you blamed someone, but given the fact that flashback is the swedish equivalent of 4chan, most those threads are not taken seriously. No one expected him to commit suicide, which is why people wrote comments that may not seem nice or appropriate.
I'm very well aware of the quote in bold, but let's face it: The guy didn't want to be "saved" since he himself realised that his life was pretty decent, but the loneliness he experienced because of his medical condition was to great to bear. He went in there to put on a show for the people on the website and thought that that would be it.
Before you blame me for the entire "for the show"-part, I can inform you that it's very often people who want to end their life that way: Google search for "Killed himself on webcam"
On October 13 2010 01:02 News wrote: If depression is enough to make you kill yourself you are indeed a weak individual probably not prepared to live in this world.
But the guy has Aspergers. He IS a "weak" individual by your definiton. Without social motivation and serious difficulty fitting in he doesn't have as much "driving force" as you do. Of course he doesn't care what people think about him.... he has Aspergers.
The question you have to ask yourself is are these people not worth saving? Are "weak" people just not suitable for the world. Because that's essentially what you're hinting at.
Aspergers does not mean that he has absolutely no social concept understanding, just that they were severely lacking. It is also a term that is being done away with slowly in favor of simply pointing out that the person is autistic and grading them on a scale of functionality.
What a load of crap. Aspies can have a perfectly fine conception of social matters. In fact they can be very charming people with a bit of effort. It just doesn't come naturally and they generally can't be assed anyways.
On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote: Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now. Poor soul. His soul will never RIP...
He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief.
The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case.
OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP.
If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame....You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge... Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.
For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up"
I'm sorry if I made it sound like you blamed someone, but given the fact that flashback is the swedish equivalent of 4chan, most those threads are not taken seriously. No one expected him to commit suicide, which is why people wrote comments that may not seem nice or appropriate.
I'm very well aware of the quote in bold, but let's face it: The guy didn't want to be "saved" since he himself realised that his life was pretty decent, but the loneliness he experienced because of his medical condition was to great to bear. He went in there to put on a show for the people on the website and thought that that would be it.
Before you blame me for the entire "for the show"-part, I can inform you that it's very often people who want to end their life that way: Google search for "Killed himself on webcam"
People with AS don't experience loneliness the same way as neurotypicals do. You can't just say "oh he has AS, so he was lonely and then he killed himself" It doesn't work that way.
I have a feeling this guy wasn't an Aspie, mis-diagnosed himself and foolishly believed he was doomed to isolation. Either that he had something else bothering him beyond AS.
On October 12 2010 13:09 lvatural wrote: I think people are forgetting the fact that this is not a "normal" kid. He had Asperger/Austism or something thus didn't do well in social situations so decided to kill himself because he was "lonely."
The sad part about this is that his situation could have been easily remedied if people in real life actually gave a shit and tried to help him out. Maybe it's his fault that he didn't search for help, but it's likely he did and was just dismissed by those around him. So, again, focusing on "being trolled in a forum" is missing the real point that our community has a flaw of neglecting/turning a shoulder against the needs of the mentally disabled. Sure there are people who care, but the general public will turn a blind eye when some mentally disabled guy reaches out to you for help. Expecting people on the internet to be accommodating when society in general dismisses the problem is really a backward approach towards fixing the problem.
Meh. Guy should've chosen something other than strangulation. That must've been a bitchy way to die.
I have asperger's and I'm not mentally disabled, IQ of like 130 actually. Also, you can work on the problems if you put some effort into it, it's pretty difficult at start but it gets better from my experience. You just don't have the "social skills" as a common sense like others and need to copy others to begin with but it'll be okay after you practice it for a while, you don't HAVE to just succumb to it.
That being said this is quite sad and must have been horrible to witness. Don't really get people who commit suicide.
I'm also autistic, but like you said theres workarounds for almost everything. I guess the guy who suicided just wanted to be around people but couldn't which pushed him over the edge. I personally can't be around people but don't give a fuck about it, i think playing video games and interacting with people online is much more fun.
There you go, some fine self-respecting Aspies here.
Frankly there should be a shit-ton of aspies on TL. Like bees to honey.
This is very close to my heart because I had a friend that I grew up with who recently killed himself in a fashion similar to this. He didn't stream a video or anything, however he did hang himself.
I don't think I'll ever fully get over what he did.
On October 12 2010 08:11 Fa1nT wrote: I harbor no sympathy for people who suicide.
Remember that we are approaching 7billion people on this planet, and within a few decades, those spots won't be so free.
Have to agree here. It might seem heartless, but the earth is overpopulating and if the growth of humans continues as it does now, our futured childs will have a very very tough time sharing the limited rescourses of earth and even more people will be suffering in third world countries. Im not saying people should go around suiciding. But there's no point to mourn about it. Whats done is done. Move along
On October 13 2010 00:25 NukeTheBunnys wrote: I am so tired of hearing people saying "its the cowards way out" You have no idea what depression is, none what so ever. You may think you understand, but you cant really know what its like unless you have been through it yourself. Waking up and seeing absolutely no reason to get up, not for a single second feeling any sort of satisfaction, hating yourself for feeling like this when you rationally know there is no reason to be feeling the way you do, and being completely powerless to change it. And you are completely powerless, it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, it will either fix it self, or it won't and your actions really have little to no bearing on what that outcome is.
I'd hardly say completely powerless, exercise has been shown over and over again to have positive effects on mood and neurotransmitters:
On October 12 2010 08:11 Fa1nT wrote: I harbor no sympathy for people who suicide.
Remember that we are approaching 7billion people on this planet, and within a few decades, those spots won't be so free.
Have to agree here. It might seem heartless, but the earth is overpopulating and if the growth of humans continues as it does now, our futured childs will have a very very tough time sharing the limited rescourses of earth and even more people will be suffering in third world countries. Im not saying people should go around suiciding. But there's no point to mourn about it. Whats done is done. Move along
Thoughts and quotes like these just show how little insight you have in this matter.
A person who commits suicide doesn't ask for your sympathy. He doesn't care for it at all, why would he? If you think it's about wanting sympathy, you are clueless...
(Ofcourse I cannot speak for all people, but that's how it is)
For those of you who doesn't know what Flashback forum is (pretty much every non-Swede I would assume) it's a forum with some kind of sweet extreme freedom-of-speech and anonymity. Nothing is too ballsy for Flashback, it seems.
Sounds a lot like 4chan - nothing is sacred. If this event had happened on 4chan, I've no doubt someone would make a meme out of this.
On October 12 2010 08:11 Fa1nT wrote: I harbor no sympathy for people who suicide.
Remember that we are approaching 7billion people on this planet, and within a few decades, those spots won't be so free.
Have to agree here. It might seem heartless, but the earth is overpopulating and if the growth of humans continues as it does now, our futured childs will have a very very tough time sharing the limited rescourses of earth and even more people will be suffering in third world countries. Im not saying people should go around suiciding. But there's no point to mourn about it. Whats done is done. Move along
I'd rather bring a child into an overcrowded world than one without empathy.
Aspergers is truly brutal. People with this disease are much more conscious of how normal people react to them than anyone could know, even if socially sporadic. They know they don't mesh properly as soon as they start communicating and from there it's a terribly uphill battle.
Something like this is so sad to me because so many people who didn't want him to commit suicide feel like they could done something, but they just didn't for whatever reason. But what's more saddening is wondering exactly what he meant by, "You shouldn't live for others."
When I hear that I basically think, the only reason he lived up to that point was because people motivated him. He killed himself with what he meant to others on his mind, it almost brings me to tears to think about.
The only thing more painful than no one loving you is no one wanting your love.
suicide is your own choice, imo, it maybe selfish but how do you know he didnt think of that first? you dont sit behind a computer and know what that guy was thinking, its just gotta be pretty serious since average joe dont just kill themselves
On October 12 2010 19:26 SoL[9] wrote: Some could save him but trolls decide to troll him. Gl for them now. Poor soul. His soul will never RIP...
He was pre-determined to do it, from reading his own posts in the thread he stated that he had been suicidal for a pretty long time, and when he strangled himself to the poinjt where his blood vessel started bursting he only felt a sensation of freedom and relief.
The flamers and the trolls are not the ones to blame in this case.
OnT: A tragedy, I had the fortune of not wintessing the suicide. I feel sick just thinking about his asphyxiated and lifeless body. RIP.
If he post there he wants to be save...I believe in that. If some one wants to that suicide and dont want to be save dont gonna post in the forum at least i believe in that. Im not blaming no one and no should be blame....You dont know the power of some one listening when you need help, you dont know how good his say something to some one that you dont know and that person dont judge... Thats one of the biggest different in the internet for real life.
For the "trollers" if they dont fell any kinda of sentimental for this "kid" any pain, any shame, any other felling that effect them, there are something bad with them. Maybe with this they just "wake up"
I'm sorry if I made it sound like you blamed someone, but given the fact that flashback is the swedish equivalent of 4chan, most those threads are not taken seriously. No one expected him to commit suicide, which is why people wrote comments that may not seem nice or appropriate.
I'm very well aware of the quote in bold, but let's face it: The guy didn't want to be "saved" since he himself realised that his life was pretty decent, but the loneliness he experienced because of his medical condition was to great to bear. He went in there to put on a show for the people on the website and thought that that would be it.
Before you blame me for the entire "for the show"-part, I can inform you that it's very often people who want to end their life that way: Google search for "Killed himself on webcam"
People with AS don't experience loneliness the same way as neurotypicals do. You can't just say "oh he has AS, so he was lonely and then he killed himself" It doesn't work that way.
I have a feeling this guy wasn't an Aspie, mis-diagnosed himself and foolishly believed he was doomed to isolation. Either that he had something else bothering him beyond AS.
I never said it was specific for people with AS, what I said was that the man was determined to kill himself, and no forum poster in the world could change it.
Sorry for the double-post, but Marcus' (as his name was) mother has written a short (34 pdf-pages) summary of her life for a swedish website called http://www.livshistorier.se. The parts concerning Marcus are a bit disturbing, he couldn't speak properly until he was three years old, and hardly played or talked to his siblings.
"Först vid 18 års ålder får Marcus sin diagnos: högfungerande autism. Att diagnosen inte ställdes tidigare anser Anna till största delen har att göra med den nära kommunikation hon redan under graviditeten upplevde med Marcus. Hon har alltid funnits där kring honom och sett till att han fått sina behov tillgodosedda utan att han egentligen behövt uttala dem. När andra har missförstått Marcus har han alltid kunnat söka och få förståelse hos sin mamma. Hon har, som hon säger, ”bäddat runt honom”.
"It wasn't until he was eighteen Marcus received his diagnosis: highly-functioning autism. Anna thinks that they never considered this due to their extremely close communication they shared from when he was in her womb. She was always around him to make sure that every one of his needs were satisfied without even having to mention them. When others misunderstood him he could always search comfort and understanding from his mother. She was, as previously mentioned, "tucked around him"
It's quite a hard read, the boy never did feel comfortable in himself and never understood how to socialize with other human beings.
The entire read can be found here. (Obs. in swedish)
For those of you who doesn't know what Flashback forum is (pretty much every non-Swede I would assume) it's a forum with some kind of sweet extreme freedom-of-speech and anonymity. Nothing is too ballsy for Flashback, it seems.
Sounds a lot like 4chan - nothing is sacred. If this event had happened on 4chan, I've no doubt someone would make a meme out of this.
4Chan is actually nicer than FB... Flashback as Ive stated before actually houses some of Swedens most dangerous and fucked up people who are actually proud of what they do.
There´s this thing called the "Anti-Afa-register" (Anti-Antifa-register) that nazis have in Sweden. They look people they dont like up and post their adresses and everything there. A lot of the info on there is actually gathered through Flashback by some Flashbackians. And yes, I am actually in that list of people they have signed. I gotta say: Having the whole Neo Nazi-movement i Sweden being able to see all the information about me sure isnt all that fun and I know that a lot of their shit actually comes from Flashback.
Does fucked up shit actually happen on 4chan? I'm not a regular there but from what I've seen they just talk about it. Still pretty cold, but I haven't seen anything truly disturbing.
On October 13 2010 05:38 Redmark wrote: Does fucked up shit actually happen on 4chan? I'm not a regular there but from what I've seen they just talk about it. Still pretty cold, but I haven't seen anything truly disturbing.
They mostly DDoS websites and chase after people who are cruel to animals now a days.
On October 13 2010 05:23 KvltMan wrote: Sorry for the double-post, but Marcus' (as his name was) mother has written a short (34 pdf-pages) summary of her life for a swedish website called http://www.livshistorier.se. The parts concerning Marcus are a bit disturbing, he couldn't speak properly until he was three years old, and hardly played or talked to his siblings.
"Först vid 18 års ålder får Marcus sin diagnos: högfungerande autism. Att diagnosen inte ställdes tidigare anser Anna till största delen har att göra med den nära kommunikation hon redan under graviditeten upplevde med Marcus. Hon har alltid funnits där kring honom och sett till att han fått sina behov tillgodosedda utan att han egentligen behövt uttala dem. När andra har missförstått Marcus har han alltid kunnat söka och få förståelse hos sin mamma. Hon har, som hon säger, ”bäddat runt honom”.
"It wasn't until he was eighteen Marcus received his diagnosis: highly-functioning autism. Anna thinks that they never considered this due to their extremely close communication they shared from when he was in her womb. She was always around him to make sure that every one of his needs were satisfied without even having to mention them. When others misunderstood him he could always search comfort and understanding from his mother. She was, as previously mentioned, "tucked around him"
It's quite a hard read, the boy never did feel comfortable in himself and never understood how to socialize with other human beings.
The entire read can be found here. (Obs. in swedish
I don't want to be an ass or anything, but i don't get this part "never understood how to socialize with other human beings." seems like he actually did know how to socialize with others. Maybe not just girls. Seems like that would be his Youtube account, dunno has it been here already.
On October 13 2010 05:23 KvltMan wrote: Sorry for the double-post, but Marcus' (as his name was) mother has written a short (34 pdf-pages) summary of her life for a swedish website called http://www.livshistorier.se. The parts concerning Marcus are a bit disturbing, he couldn't speak properly until he was three years old, and hardly played or talked to his siblings.
"Först vid 18 års ålder får Marcus sin diagnos: högfungerande autism. Att diagnosen inte ställdes tidigare anser Anna till största delen har att göra med den nära kommunikation hon redan under graviditeten upplevde med Marcus. Hon har alltid funnits där kring honom och sett till att han fått sina behov tillgodosedda utan att han egentligen behövt uttala dem. När andra har missförstått Marcus har han alltid kunnat söka och få förståelse hos sin mamma. Hon har, som hon säger, ”bäddat runt honom”.
"It wasn't until he was eighteen Marcus received his diagnosis: highly-functioning autism. Anna thinks that they never considered this due to their extremely close communication they shared from when he was in her womb. She was always around him to make sure that every one of his needs were satisfied without even having to mention them. When others misunderstood him he could always search comfort and understanding from his mother. She was, as previously mentioned, "tucked around him"
It's quite a hard read, the boy never did feel comfortable in himself and never understood how to socialize with other human beings.
The entire read can be found here. (Obs. in swedish
I don't want to be an ass, but i don't get this part "never understood how to socialize with other human beings." seems like he actually did know how to socialize with others. Maybe not just girls. Seems like that would be his Youtube account, dunno has it been here already.
Lol, don't feel like an ass, it's good that you point out stuff that's wrong. But idk, he himself wrote in the thread that he felt lonely, and by reading his mom's story it just seemed like he couldn't process or understand a lot of things he was asked as a kid and also felt really lonely, so I just assumed he was pretty introverted.
On October 13 2010 05:23 KvltMan wrote: Sorry for the double-post, but Marcus' (as his name was) mother has written a short (34 pdf-pages) summary of her life for a swedish website called http://www.livshistorier.se. The parts concerning Marcus are a bit disturbing, he couldn't speak properly until he was three years old, and hardly played or talked to his siblings.
"Först vid 18 års ålder får Marcus sin diagnos: högfungerande autism. Att diagnosen inte ställdes tidigare anser Anna till största delen har att göra med den nära kommunikation hon redan under graviditeten upplevde med Marcus. Hon har alltid funnits där kring honom och sett till att han fått sina behov tillgodosedda utan att han egentligen behövt uttala dem. När andra har missförstått Marcus har han alltid kunnat söka och få förståelse hos sin mamma. Hon har, som hon säger, ”bäddat runt honom”.
"It wasn't until he was eighteen Marcus received his diagnosis: highly-functioning autism. Anna thinks that they never considered this due to their extremely close communication they shared from when he was in her womb. She was always around him to make sure that every one of his needs were satisfied without even having to mention them. When others misunderstood him he could always search comfort and understanding from his mother. She was, as previously mentioned, "tucked around him"
It's quite a hard read, the boy never did feel comfortable in himself and never understood how to socialize with other human beings.
The entire read can be found here. (Obs. in swedish
I don't want to be an ass, but i don't get this part "never understood how to socialize with other human beings." seems like he actually did know how to socialize with others. Maybe not just girls. Seems like that would be his Youtube account, dunno has it been here already.
Lol, don't feel like an ass, it's good that you point out stuff that's wrong. But idk, he himself wrote in the thread that he felt lonely, and by reading his mom's story it just seemed like he couldn't process or understand a lot of things he was asked as a kid and also felt really lonely, so I just assumed he was pretty introverted.
My apologies.
No no, its just that he even said himself that he was lonely as fuck and didn't know how to socialize with people etc.
Mate of mine told me about it as it was going on. He said some dude is threatening to hang himself on web cam. Now like a train wreck I thought it was horrible, but I wanted to see. I doubted anything would happen. My friend was giving running commentary, and then all of a sudden started screaming that it was real, so I didn't load up the page.
I think it's sad people tried to get him to do it. Even if there are lots of trolls saying they will, it's a bit messed up to assume it's a troll and egg someone on.
People are gonna call my cynical for this, and hell I guess I am. But I can't feel sorry about someone dieing because of a suicide, it was their decision, and they figured it was the right thing to do. I also think that people who resort to suicide instead of really confronting their problems are of a weak mental fortitude. I however do feel sorry for the people who had to see the morbidity of the video and are not able to handle it, I can completely understand that. But I will never feel sorry for someone who killed themselves, especially one who made it such a spectacle.
anyone think thinks taking your own life is EASY or and EASY WAY OUT needs to think for more than one second about what they are saying.
I suffer from Bi-Polar Disorder, i go from deepest depression to hyper mode faster than a 6pool kills me. when i was younger I couldn't deal with it, i didn't manage the disorder well and I was in a bad state alot of the time. I tried to take my life on multiple occasions, thankfully I failed via a combination of people turning up at the right time to save me and sheer luck.
I never told anyone what I was going to do, I wasn't doing it for the attention, at the time I just wanted out. I couldn't handle not knowing how i was going to feel about the world from day to day, it was horrible.I won't go in to too many details on what i did to myself, but I have a tattoo that exactly cover up some of the scars (I made a pattern with a cut-throat razor) to remind me what i almost lost.
You have no idea how much resolve and will power it takes to intentionally harm yourself to the point that you will die. I'm not talking about "self harm", thats a completely different mind set, I am talking about knowingly attempting to end your life. Billions of years of evolution have created instincts for self preservation, to override this programming which is HARD CODED in to you takes enormous courage and self control. I challenge anyone to take a cut throat razor and slice a part of your body open...... most people wouldn't be able to do it, because they would be scared of the pain, of those who could do it, most wouldn't cut deep enough to understand how hard it really is to damage your body to the point of dying. what i'm trying to say is, hurting yourself is Stupid (notice the capitol S), but not cowardly.
Having been in a place where i thought the world would be better without me, and now in a place where i would do anything to save my own life has been a massive transition and one that took many friends supporting me to achieve. there was a time when i honestly believed my lfie was worthless, and even then the thought of taking my own life made me feel sick, but i mastered myself and did what at the time i felt was the right thing to do.
I am eternally thankful for those who came to my rescue and for the fact that my body was so used to taking drugs (both medicinal and recreational) that my tolerance saved me on more than one occasion..... it seemed i simply wasn't meant to die at times, even tho i am not religious, it felt like somehow it always went wrong.
Its always a sad day when someone takes their own life, but sometimes, though it may seem selfish to those who do not know true depression, in your mind while you are doing it..... you honestly think no one will miss you, no one will care, and even those who do are better off without you around bringing them down. Many people who commit suicide say in their notes things like "I couldn't bare seeing how miserable i was making you, hopefully now you can be happy" - aimed at thier loved ones - and in their altered state they honestly think they are doing the right thing.
To put into context the sort of person i was when i attempted to take my own life.....
I was 14 (first time, 17 last time), captain of my school soccer, rugby and basketball teams, sponsored for Skateboarding and Snowboarding. In a band (i am now a professional Singer and sound technician), had a gorgeous girlfriend and lots of friends.
I was by no means the "usual" suicide case. However, I have a disorder that completely messes with my head.
You may ask what changed things for me, and the answer is simple. I began to talk to people about my disorder, and about my feelings. I let my friends in and they helped an immense amount, I was lucky I had friends. Alot of people who take their lives don't have anyone to lean on, and I really needed people to lean on.... until I was 22 and my son was born. From that day on, the thought of taking my own life has never once entered my head.
I am one of the lucky ones, able to tell the world about my experiences, I had friends who aren't here anymore because they succeeded in taking their lives, I miss them very much and wish they had been lucky like me and somehow managed to find their way back from the darkness. I take great offense to people sullying their memory by saying they took the easy way out..... they are gone, never to return, never to love, never to live all because of a plethora of reasons. Whether they were born different, or mistreated by parents/piers or had a mental disorder that went unnoticed or a host of other causes.
No one is born wanting to kill themselves, it is a tragedy and we should do everything we can to find out why people do it, and then to attempt to remove those things from the world.
Great post man, everyone in this thread should read it.
People are gonna call my cynical for this, and hell I guess I am. But I can't feel sorry about someone dieing because of a suicide, it was their decision, and they figured it was the right thing to do. I also think that people who resort to suicide instead of really confronting their problems are of a weak mental fortitude.
I'm going to have to agree here. I feel more empathy for animals being abused than I do about these type of people. And I won't pretend like many others either like I am mortified or think it's sad. Because frankly, these kinds of things happen a lot.
I didn't think it was graphic either but I suppose I'm too desensitized to watching gory movies to consider this graphic.
People are gonna call my cynical for this, and hell I guess I am. But I can't feel sorry about someone dieing because of a suicide, it was their decision, and they figured it was the right thing to do. I also think that people who resort to suicide instead of really confronting their problems are of a weak mental fortitude.
I'm going to have to agree here. I feel more empathy for animals being abused than I do about these type of people. And I won't pretend like many others either like I am mortified or think it's sad. Because frankly, these kinds of things happen a lot.
I didn't think it was graphic either but I suppose I'm too desensitized to watching gory movies to consider this graphic.
It is a little disturbing though.
I don't want to argue here and I'm not saying suicide is the right way out in any situation, but when if you study psychology you would know that a lot of shunning out and loneliness can make people not see any other options. There's no way to really explain why someone commits suicide even if there's evidence to back it up, but the idea is that when someone sees no reason to live, suicide seems like the best thing to do, in their mind.
On October 12 2010 17:42 TallMax wrote: To the author of the OP, and anyone else who has watched this, I hope you're doing OK, but don't beat yourself up over it. There's large events in history that change the way we will perceive the world, even things that happen before we were born; and, there's small, tragic events that not everyone is directly a part of that help shape us differently than everyone else. Posts like this always bring up arguments about suicide, but the real point here is how it happened and how to help people who've seen this. Don't get caught up in the opinions that aren't related to your experience, particularly from people who don't even know you.
My main point is, you're still alive, decide what you want to take from having seen this. You don't have to make a sunny day out of it, but try to take something from this situation. Don't let this be another meaningless death. Oh, and go have some ice cream, or hot chocolate.
That's saddening. Though people mention the numerous deaths occurring each and everyday, it still doesn't diminish the fact that society has failed yet another person. What's even worse is that we've all become desensitized to these kinds of tragedies and even come to call many attempted ones fake. It's sad really, that society has fallen so low that people would even make troll posts about these kinds of events. And that is what saddens me more.
I hoped the internet was moving us forward. It is but it seems just toward another kind darkness.
I don't want to be an ass or anything, but i don't get this part "never understood how to socialize with other human beings." seems like he actually did know how to socialize with others. Maybe not just girls. Seems like that would be his Youtube account, dunno has it been here already.
Do you even know what asperger's syndrome is?
I know it is getting a lot of shit today and people are loosely defining it more and more, which is starting to give it less credibility (in the sense that how truly functional the person is socially is unknown). But regardless, all you honestly have to do is wikipedia the word. Seriously.
And the FIRST sentence that comes up is
Asperger syndrome or Asperger's syndrome (English pronunciation: /æspɜrɡɜrz/) is an autism spectrum disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.
In correlation with what the guy said himself. With very little research you can see someone posted this on the first page:
(He made a post how his life otherwise is going good, grades good, good income, everything fine and dandy except for his social life that seemed to have been affected by his disease.)
On October 12 2010 17:42 TallMax wrote: To the author of the OP, and anyone else who has watched this, I hope you're doing OK, but don't beat yourself up over it. There's large events in history that change the way we will perceive the world, even things that happen before we were born; and, there's small, tragic events that not everyone is directly a part of that help shape us differently than everyone else. Posts like this always bring up arguments about suicide, but the real point here is how it happened and how to help people who've seen this. Don't get caught up in the opinions that aren't related to your experience, particularly from people who don't even know you.
My main point is, you're still alive, decide what you want to take from having seen this. You don't have to make a sunny day out of it, but try to take something from this situation. Don't let this be another meaningless death. Oh, and go have some ice cream, or hot chocolate.
On October 13 2010 07:49 SichuanPanda wrote: People are gonna call my cynical for this, and hell I guess I am. But I can't feel sorry about someone dieing because of a suicide, it was their decision, and they figured it was the right thing to do. I also think that people who resort to suicide instead of really confronting their problems are of a weak mental fortitude. I however do feel sorry for the people who had to see the morbidity of the video and are not able to handle it, I can completely understand that. But I will never feel sorry for someone who killed themselves, especially one who made it such a spectacle.
So you can't feel sorry for some one whos life sucks and they have "weak mental fortitude"? You are a fucking asshole. The amount of posts in this thread saying suicide is for the weak, cowards, or some other ridiculous statement make me want to puke. How fucking dense can you be.
People who are at the point where they will kill themselves either have had the world shit on them or have some serious mental problems that require professional help. This guy had aspergers which makes it difficult for him to socialize with others. Obviously his sydrome affected his life and mental state greatly.
Who gives a shit about people who saw a video of a guy they didn't want to see. I imagine the torment going through this young guys head his entire life was far worse then a glimpse of this video.
On October 13 2010 07:49 SichuanPanda wrote: People are gonna call my cynical for this, and hell I guess I am. But I can't feel sorry about someone dieing because of a suicide, it was their decision, and they figured it was the right thing to do. I also think that people who resort to suicide instead of really confronting their problems are of a weak mental fortitude. I however do feel sorry for the people who had to see the morbidity of the video and are not able to handle it, I can completely understand that. But I will never feel sorry for someone who killed themselves, especially one who made it such a spectacle.
So you can't feel sorry for some one whos life sucks and they have "weak mental fortitude"? You are a fucking asshole.
Indeed, its a paradox, on one hand he claims he cant feel sorry for said individuals, but on the other hand he atributes their actions to inate cirscunstances, so basically, you hes an asshole ?
Suicide is a very sad thing indeed, and oftentimes what is even sadder is that there exist persons who garner a sadistic thrill as a result of the self-inflicted violence of another.
Few things in life are as painful as what one could maximally experience, painfully, in life, by logic of tautology and therefore, no further conclusion might be reached from my statement.
I offer the deepest condolences to all those who have been affected in a neutral or negative way. I offer only a scowl to any and all trolls who derive any degree of schadenfreudist pleasure from this tragedy.
I mean I'm fucking amazed these stories happen online. Clearly this is a problem still and something that has to be addressed by those streaming sites.
He was streaming this through a private FTP stream server he setup, it was not streamed through livestream/ustream/justin.tv like some did a bit back in time.
What shocks me is the amount of people that say stuff like "People who commit suicide are selfish and weak. They dont even care about what they are doing to their families". It really just boggles my mind that they can make a judgement like that and place it on every single person who commits suicide. Like it is really just that simple. Also, they think they know what depression is because their dog died when they were a kid and since they were able to cope. Everyone else should be able to cope as well. Including people diagnosed with mental illnesses.
I think volunteering or working at a mental health facility would be very eye opening to a lot people. The lack of understanding and compassion for those who are struggling with something very serious is sad. It makes life incredibly harder for them because they already feel worthless and when so many people avoid them or pass their naive judgement, its like proof to them that they really are worthless. So very sad.
On October 13 2010 07:49 SichuanPanda wrote: People are gonna call my cynical for this, and hell I guess I am. But I can't feel sorry about someone dieing because of a suicide, it was their decision, and they figured it was the right thing to do. I also think that people who resort to suicide instead of really confronting their problems are of a weak mental fortitude. I however do feel sorry for the people who had to see the morbidity of the video and are not able to handle it, I can completely understand that. But I will never feel sorry for someone who killed themselves, especially one who made it such a spectacle.
So you can't feel sorry for some one whos life sucks and they have "weak mental fortitude"? You are a fucking asshole. The amount of posts in this thread saying suicide is for the weak, cowards, or some other ridiculous statement make me want to puke. How fucking dense can you be.
People who are at the point where they will kill themselves either have had the world shit on them or have some serious mental problems that require professional help. This guy had aspergers which makes it difficult for him to socialize with others. Obviously his sydrome affected his life and mental state greatly.
Who gives a shit about people who saw a video of a guy they didn't want to see. I imagine the torment going through this young guys head his entire life was far worse then a glimpse of this video.
He says that people who commit suicide are weak thats his opinion. Who are YOU to say that they aren't? What do you know about suicide to prove otherwise? Everyone is different and acts differently to certain situations. Sure aspergers wouldn't have helped but many people have aspergers syndome they didn't all commit suicide now did they?
To say that someone is dense for not feeling sorry for someone who commited suicide is a load of shit some people are weak that is a fact. Most of us here are probably weak. I will say sure I am weak. I sometimes feel hard done by and that life is unfair yet I really have a better life than most people hell everyone who is on this forum gets to play starcraft, have the internet, has the ability to see this stuff. We have a good life and to just throw it away like that yes sure many people will say that is weak. So you can not say that they are an arsehole or dense for feeling that way when it is common sense for that reaction to occur.
Maybe he was very strong maybe he wasn't we don't know him nor will we ever know him now because of what he has done.
I just personally cant see any logical reason to kill yourself and yes logic doesnt play into a suicidal persons mind whatever It just seems so pointless. But yes I would say he was weak because I personally believe there is always a better way out. Like i said further up he isnt poverty stricken or stuck in a warzone hes in Sweden. A country which has one of the highest standard of living
He says that people who commit suicide are weak thats his opinion. Who are YOU to say that they aren't? What do you know about suicide to prove otherwise? Everyone is different and acts differently to certain situations. Sure aspergers wouldn't have helped but many people have aspergers syndome they didn't all commit suicide now did they?
His opinion is ridiculous, ignorant, and wrong. Yours is too. I am very confident that I am right and you are both pricks.
I didn't say he is dense for not feeling sorry for him. I don't give a shit about the guy who killed himself to be honest. I watched the video and It doesn't make me sad. However, I can sympathize with the young man that decided to off himself. I can say that I am not a big enough asshole not to be able to see that he needed help and he was very unhappy in his life. He isn't a coward or weak for taking his life, he was sick and needed help. Have some fucking empathy.
It has nothing to do with the choice of suicide being logical or not. Why have so many people said that stupid shit blows my mind.
I am not trying to be insensitive but first of just in sweden there are about 1200 suicides a year. This one gets a lot of publicity because it was publiced online. However I think it was really mean of lurifaxflux since if he wants to take his life then he's got the right to do that in my opinion it's his life after all eventhough I still think there a lot better options. But by streaming it online he's traumatized a lot of people as well as making the media heavin to report a suicide which they rarely do due to the fact that it might inspire other people by doing so.
People who blame flashback are retarded. Ok they could have done something about it. But first of one of the sites main themes is annonimity and freedoom of speech. Also the reason to why some people said stuff like "Ju do it" and "How long is this gonna take I have to get to work soon" is because on a forum like that there's a lot of trolls who just want the attention and after 10 fake posts and no one who has actually done it before people just think that it's not gonna happen and start to get mad at him because they think he's trolling. However most of the repsonses if you read the post weren't encouraging. They were either peopl who tried to make him change his mind or people just saying good luck in the after life which I don't think that's encouraging. Anyways this is my view on it.
On October 13 2010 02:19 intrigue wrote: i will never understand people who speak so harshly of suicide. those of you who think you are enlightened on the subject because you've been through so-and-so condition and know how miserable it is - do you really think that you survived because you somehow have just that much more mental fortitude and willpower than others? isn't there certainly a silent mass of thousands upon thousands of people out there to which your problems pale in comparison?
you guys should know best of all how hard it is for the average person to grasp what depression and its friends are like. i think giving your fellow human beings the benefit of the doubt and acknowledging that there may be despair beyond your understanding is the only a natural progression of having gone through a mental illness yourself.
what does it even mean when people say suicide requires a "weak mind"? what a fucking ego trip.
well said, intrigue... and i agree wholeheartedly with this.
On October 13 2010 20:16 Johnny Business wrote: Exact opposite, Watched the thing live and I didn't feel anything.
What do you expect people to say in response to this? Lol? Are you looking for negative comments? Or do you just want someone to call you an insensitive douche bag?
I followed the spectacle live yesterday. Thought at first, like so many others, that there was a troll or just someone attentionwhore who wanted some attention. When it later turned out to be serious and the guy actually killed himself, I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing.
After all these years on the Internet and all the crap you've seen I feel jaded. I've seen Muslims stoned, Chechens who cut the throats of prisoners of war, accidents of all kinds. I can read about accidents and tragic life stories in newspapers and online and almost feel a tear penetrate, but here you got to see a suicide live and I know nothing at all. I saw something earlier clip of a Japanese girl trampled to death a kitten and then it suddenly flared up a känslostorm within me, I felt angry, sad, and God knows huh. But when I saw a young man taking his life, nothing happened.
Have I lost faith in humanity and due. it feel indifferent when someone brings me stranger kill themselves?
Could it possibly be because you are so jaded by all the crap you've seen, both real and fake, that it simply stopped caring?
Or could it be that I simply can not 100% understand that it's real (are a bit together with the preceding paragraph), a blocky little image from a webcam on the internet does not feel real, even though it now was it?
Or finally, maybe it's that I simply can not feel sorry for anyone who actually wants to die and arrange it on your own. It was no accident, there was no innocent victim, there was one person on his own decision ended his own life.
You must excuse this muddled post, I want to feel something but I can not quite understand why I did not do it.
I was on that thread the day it happend and I really thought it was a troll but that was when I saw his face and realised it was true.
I have a picture of him "dead" when he hanged himself I was shocked. Also a picture of when police was there and ambulance doing CPR, the suicuiders had a tshirt " just do it " it was red and the text was white. Flashback is still an awesome forum.
Actually watched a recorded video of this, dude just drank a bottle of something, took the rope tight around his neck and then sat down. You could see his arms moving and stuff, and after some time his head turned all blue. Then he stopped moving and was dead :S Watched the vid at school with a couple of friends, can't say I felt anything at all in other words can't say I care.
yeah there are over 250pics and a few gifs and some utorrent files making it " all pic into gif " He strangled himself thats why he was moving around with his arms,legs and when the police/ambulance arrived, then the police noticed the webcamera and was like oh its a trap, and moved it up to the roof " so we could only see the roof ,
EPT
Im sorry you had to see that kind of stuff....
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